Mikesell (Why does everyone think he's a "shooter"?

flyerfan4life · #1 03-31-2016, 02:05 PM

I'm sorry....I keep seeing where people think he's going to solve our problems of getting a knock down shooter. I love the kid and I think he has a knack for offensive basketball. Good passer, good rebounder, etc. However, hello people! He shot 46% from the free throw line and 33% from the three. He will not be the answer that we're looking for as a "knock down shooter". It's just not who he is....he's a slasher.

flyerfanatic86 · #2 03-31-2016, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

I'm sorry....I keep seeing where people think he's going to solve our problems of getting a knock down shooter. I love the kid and I think he has a knack for offensive basketball. Good passer, good rebounder, etc. However, hello people! He shot 46% from the free throw line and 33% from the three. He will not be the answer that we're looking for as a "knock down shooter". It's just not who he is....he's a slasher.

He's a guy who just finished his first season of college ball and played limited minutes. I doubt anybody knows "who he is" with any certainty right now.

jack72 · #3 03-31-2016, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86

He's a guy who just finished his first season of college ball and played limited minutes. I doubt anybody knows "who he is" with any certainty right now.

Amen. What really cracks me up is people who are sure he is a decent shooter, but Crosby is a hopeless shooter and point guard, who can never run the offense, and Sam has a terrible attitude and questionable talent. Give the freshmen some time.

steve · #4 03-31-2016, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by jack72

Amen. What really cracks me up is people who are sure he is a decent shooter, but Crosby is a hopeless shooter and point guard, who can never run the offense, and Sam has a terrible attitude and questionable talent. Give the freshmen some time.

Yep. Plenty on here try to be Miss Cloe.....Mostly just clueless.....

Smitty10 · #5 03-31-2016, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by jack72

Amen. What really cracks me up is people who are sure he is a decent shooter, but Crosby is a hopeless shooter and point guard, who can never run the offense, and Sam has a terrible attitude and questionable talent. Give the freshmen some time.

What cracks me up is people who are sure he is a decent shooter based on his first game, thinks it time to cut DD who showed the same in his first game, and quite a few times since.

My problem with Crosby is he not one time this season did he show any promise of doing what a PG is supposed to do. He showed offensive ability by driving to the hoop and a few times his very ugly looking 3 pointers have gone in the bucket, and 1/2 the time he made his FTs, but the whole offense looked like chickens with their heads cut off running around out there when he entered the game. Someone prior to the season stated that he looked like Sean Scrutchins. I've got to say, that person nailed that one. He does look like the 2nd coming of Scrutchins, and you've been following UD basketball long enough Jack to know that's not a compliment.

flyerfan4life · #6 03-31-2016, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86

He's a guy who just finished his first season of college ball and played limited minutes. I doubt anybody knows "who he is" with any certainty right now.

Thanks for the comment....but I'm just going off of what others have said on this board and other boards. They seem to think Mikesell is the next coming of JJ Redick....That is NOT who he is. It's not who he was in high school and it's not who he'll be going forward. Now, I'm certainly hopeful he won't shoot 46% from the FT line for his career or 33% from the 3 for his career, but I wouldn't expect a dead eye shooter moving forward. Class dismissed.

DallasFlyer · #7 03-31-2016, 04:46 PM

Depends how you define a shooter I suppose, but 33.3% stacks up okay for a freshman campaign. Here are some points of comparison you might consider:

1) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Scoochie Smith's as a freshman (27.4%)

2) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Charles Cooke's as a freshman (32.4%)

3) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Charles Cooke's as a sophomore (29.8%)

4) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Darrell Davis's as a sophomore (29.1%)

5) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Devin Oliver's as a freshman (15.8%)

6) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Devin Oliver's as a sophomore (21.2%)

7) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Devin Oliver's as a junior (28.3%)

8) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Jordan Sibert's as a freshman (25%)

9) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Jordan Sibert's as a sophomore (26%)

10) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Vee Sanford's as a freshman (23.1 %)

11) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was equal to Vee Sanford's as a junior (33.3%)

12) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Vee Sanford's as a senior (30.2%)

Smitty10 · #8 03-31-2016, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer

Depends how you define a shooter I suppose, but 33.3% stacks up okay for a freshman campaign. Here are some points of comparison you might consider:

1) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Scoochie Smith's as a freshman (27.4%)

2) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Charles Cooke's as a freshman (32.4%)

3) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Charles Cooke's as a sophomore (29.8%)

4) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Darrell Davis's as a sophomore (29.1%)

5) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Devin Oliver's as a freshman (15.8%)

6) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Devin Oliver's as a sophomore (21.2%)

7) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Devin Oliver's as a junior (28.3%)

8) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Jordan Sibert's as a freshman (25%)

9) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Jordan Sibert's as a sophomore (26%)

10) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Vee Sanford's as a freshman (23.1 %)

11) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was equal to Vee Sanford's as a junior (33.3%)

12) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Vee Sanford's as a senior (30.2%)

Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage after the first game was 22.2%, lower than anything you've shown above without DMO in it. Somehow I think we could've beaten SE Missouri St. with RM staying home.

Against Baylor in Maui, Kendall Pollard went 2-2 from the FT line. Right then I knew he was going to be a clutch FT shooter for us at 85 percent or higher.

UDDoug · #9 03-31-2016, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Smitty10

What cracks me up is people who are sure he is a decent shooter based on his first game, thinks it time to cut DD who showed the same in his first game, and quite a few times since.

My problem with Crosby is he not one time this season did he show any promise of doing what a PG is supposed to do. He showed offensive ability by driving to the hoop and a few times his very ugly looking 3 pointers have gone in the bucket, and 1/2 the time he made his FTs, but the whole offense looked like chickens with their heads cut off running around out there when he entered the game. Someone prior to the season stated that he looked like Sean Scrutchins. I've got to say, that person nailed that one. He does look like the 2nd coming of Scrutchins, and you've been following UD basketball long enough Jack to know that's not a compliment.

That's fairly typical of freshmen point guards. They are instructed to get into the lane and draw defenders. And when it happens they lack the strength and recognition to move the ball elsewhere, and force up a shot.

Anyone looking at the freshmen and a veteran heavy team and drawing conclusions as to their future that they are highly certain will come to fruition need to be doing something else for a living if they have that kind of ability to predict the future.

flyerfan4life · #10 03-31-2016, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer

Depends how you define a shooter I suppose, but 33.3% stacks up okay for a freshman campaign. Here are some points of comparison you might consider:

1) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Scoochie Smith's as a freshman (27.4%)

2) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Charles Cooke's as a freshman (32.4%)

3) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Charles Cooke's as a sophomore (29.8%)

4) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Darrell Davis's as a sophomore (29.1%)

5) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Devin Oliver's as a freshman (15.8%)

6) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Devin Oliver's as a sophomore (21.2%)

7) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Devin Oliver's as a junior (28.3%)

8) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Jordan Sibert's as a freshman (25%)

9) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Jordan Sibert's as a sophomore (26%)

10) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Vee Sanford's as a freshman (23.1 %)

11) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was equal to Vee Sanford's as a junior (33.3%)

12) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Vee Sanford's as a senior (30.2%)

Not ONE person that you mentioned would be considered a "knock down shooter". Also, I didnt see you compare his DREADFUL free throw % to anyone else.

chicago92 · #11 03-31-2016, 06:31 PM

Is it November yet?

DallasFlyer · #12 03-31-2016, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

Not ONE person that you mentioned would be considered a "knock down shooter". Also, I didnt see you compare his DREADFUL free throw % to anyone else.

Not Sibert? Not Cooke? Guessing Dayton doesn't have any one that's a knock down shooter then... Wait, what about Archie? No eligibility but he still qualifies, right?

Regarding the free throws, 46% is really indefensible. Though I guess I could point out he only took 13. Small sample size. But he probably needs to stop being just a shooter, and try to get to the line a bit more. Oh, shoot. There I did it again. What I mean to say is that Mikesell needs to stop not being a shooter and get to the line where he can't shoot it. Is that better? How am I doing?

DallasFlyer · #13 03-31-2016, 06:50 PM

Since clearly I don't know what a knock down shooter is, I just took a quick glance at the college statistics of the top 10 leaders in the NBA currently in terms of 3 point percentage. These are qualified leaders on pace for at least 82 attempts. Two of them actually shot it worse as both a freshman and as a sophomore than did Ryan Mikesell, who I think we can all agree is not an NBA talent.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl.../stat/3-points

Smitty10 · #14 03-31-2016, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer

Since clearly I don't know what a knock down shooter is, I just took a quick glance at the college statistics of the top 10 leaders in the NBA currently in terms of 3 point percentage. These are qualified leaders on pace for at least 82 attempts. Two of them actually shot it worse as both a freshman and as a sophomore than did Ryan Mikesell, who I think we can all agree is not an NBA talent.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl.../stat/3-points

Well, that's refreshing. It's good to know that Big Steve might some day be a knock down shooter.

flyerfan4life · #15 03-31-2016, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer

Not Sibert? Not Cooke? Guessing Dayton doesn't have any one that's a knock down shooter then... Wait, what about Archie? No eligibility but he still qualifies, right?

Regarding the free throws, 46% is really indefensible. Though I guess I could point out he only took 13. Small sample size. But he probably needs to stop being just a shooter, and try to get to the line a bit more. Oh, shoot. There I did it again. What I mean to say is that Mikesell needs to stop not being a shooter and get to the line where he can't shoot it. Is that better? How am I doing?

No, we do not have a knock down shooter. Nobody was over 40%. Sibert was a "clutch" shooter, but not a knock down shooter.

Townie · #16 03-31-2016, 08:55 PM

Clearly the Flyers suck, fire Archie and bring in a whole new team. 😀

flyerfan4life · #17 03-31-2016, 09:01 PM

Yeah, because that is what I was implying.

ClaytonFlyerFan · #18 03-31-2016, 09:17 PM

After reading some of the bickering back and forth on a few threads already, and it is still March, I am starting to think everyone on here needs to go drink a few, smoke something different, or beg your loved one for what some of you must have not got for awhile.

Relax and enjoy life people

Jeff · #19 03-31-2016, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer

Depends how you define a shooter I suppose, but 33.3% stacks up okay for a freshman campaign. Here are some points of comparison you might consider:

1) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Scoochie Smith's as a freshman (27.4%)

2) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Charles Cooke's as a freshman (32.4%)

3) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Charles Cooke's as a sophomore (29.8%)

4) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Darrell Davis's as a sophomore (29.1%)

5) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Devin Oliver's as a freshman (15.8%)

6) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Devin Oliver's as a sophomore (21.2%)

7) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Devin Oliver's as a junior (28.3%)

8) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Jordan Sibert's as a freshman (25%)

9) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Jordan Sibert's as a sophomore (26%)

10) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Vee Sanford's as a freshman (23.1 %)

11) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was equal to Vee Sanford's as a junior (33.3%)

12) Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage (33.3%) as a freshman was higher than Vee Sanford's as a senior (30.2%)

Uh, oh, there goes data getting in the way of opinions.....

Jeff · #20 03-31-2016, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by jack72

Amen. What really cracks me up is people who are sure he is a decent shooter, but Crosby is a hopeless shooter and point guard, who can never run the offense, and Sam has a terrible attitude and questionable talent. Give the freshmen some time.

They all have potential, and a coaching staff that will work effortlessly to get that out of them. Sam's didn't help himself with his body language, certainly, that can be overcome.

Jeff · #21 03-31-2016, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Smitty10

What cracks me up is people who are sure he is a decent shooter based on his first game, thinks it time to cut DD who showed the same in his first game, and quite a few times since.

My problem with Crosby is he not one time this season did he show any promise of doing what a PG is supposed to do. He showed offensive ability by driving to the hoop and a few times his very ugly looking 3 pointers have gone in the bucket, and 1/2 the time he made his FTs, but the whole offense looked like chickens with their heads cut off running around out there when he entered the game. Someone prior to the season stated that he looked like Sean Scrutchins. I've got to say, that person nailed that one. He does look like the 2nd coming of Scrutchins, and you've been following UD basketball long enough Jack to know that's not a compliment.

Pfft. Expert in the house....

flyerfan4life · #22 03-31-2016, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff

Uh, oh, there goes data getting in the way of opinions.....

Data that illustrates nothing about him becoming a knock down shooter. DDavis shot 45% as a frosh & 29% as a soph. Just making you all aware of the fact that Mikesell's game isn't being a knock down shot maker. Wasnt in high school and clearly wasnt as a freshman.

DallasFlyer · #23 03-31-2016, 11:23 PM

So was Darrell a knock down shooter as a freshman? What percentage do you have to make to earn this classification?

Smitty10 · #24 04-01-2016, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by Jeff

Uh, oh, there goes data getting in the way of opinions.....

And that would make sense if the data proved that Mikesell was a knock down shooter. Did it? If it did, please analyze for me because I don't see it. And if it doesn't, take your flippant, worthless one line posts and .... you know.

Smitty10 · #25 04-01-2016, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by Townie

Clearly the Flyers suck, fire Archie and bring in a whole new team. 😀

lmao. How does debating an aspect of one player's game lead to such a stupid comment? If you want nothing but positive spin on the Flyers, top to bottom, I suggest you only read the Dayton Daily News and not UDPRIDE.

flyerfan4life · #26 04-01-2016, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer

So was Darrell a knock down shooter as a freshman? What percentage do you have to make to earn this classification?

I just thought he got a lot more open looks and took better shots. I dont think he is truly as bad as he was this year, but I dont think a 45% 3 pt shooter is who he will be.

shocka43 · #27 04-01-2016, 08:02 AM

The guy has the ability but didn't see the minutes or flow to have an impact other than his first game at the Arena. Who knows what the future holds for him, but given the pool of "shooters" on this team, I would put him up there if we are talking shooters...his form is good and he is known to be a shooter. I would not have any reason not to give him a pass and state that he will be a good shooter, versus he is a knock down guy...he hasn't shown that other than one time.

Shooter or not, he needs to get better defensively if he wants to see the floor. His foot speed isn't the greatest. He does appear to play smart. If he works on his defensive skills, to improve footwork, it will make him an improved shooter as well. He is the type of guy that isn't going to create jump shots off screens...he appears to be a set shooter at this point and it doesn't help that when he does see the floor, it is with an inefficient PG that doesn't permit the offense to flow and get open looks for shooters. Luke could drain 3's when wide open, off back screens, and on reversals. Luke couldn't create. Right now, this appears to be Mikesell's game...but he doesn't have the length to make of for a lack of quickness on D. Luke was taller, so he got away with poor defensive footwork strictly due to length.

Guy will be here for 4 years and will be a great contributor one day...have a feeling.

UDBrian · #28 04-01-2016, 08:31 AM

I think Mikesell will be a tremendous shooter. This is based upon his smooth shooting motion and not his stats. I remember a similar conversation about dmo. He does have work to do of course

But, Mikesell is not just a shooter. He is also a slasher who moves without the ball and also distributes the ball. He is a great fit for Archie's offense

DallasFlyer · #29 04-01-2016, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by shocka43

Shooter or not, he needs to get better defensively if he wants to see the floor.

Bingo. That is the question mark for Mikesell. Can he defend? Lack of offensive prowess won't be what keeps him off the court.

Jeff · #30 04-01-2016, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Smitty10

And that would make sense if the data proved that Mikesell was a knock down shooter. Did it? If it did, please analyze for me because I don't see it. And if it doesn't, take your flippant, worthless one line posts and .... you know.

Thanks. I wanted to see how you would react to a dismissive post such as I see you do so many times. It worked.

NCkevi · #31 04-01-2016, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Smitty10

Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage after the first game was 22.2%, lower than anything you've shown above without DMO in it. Somehow I think we could've beaten SE Missouri St. with RM staying home.

Against Baylor in Maui, Kendall Pollard went 2-2 from the FT line. Right then I knew he was going to be a clutch FT shooter for us at 85 percent or higher.

So you think 1 game stats are just as valid as season stats

Figgie123 · #32 04-01-2016, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by NCkevi

So you think 1 game stats are just as valid as season stats

No, he's just pointing out an anomaly in the statistics. That is something people will do with statistics if the "deduction" from the statistics is off from what things truly look like.

Mikesell played 26 minutes in that first game, and went 5-7 from the 3pt line and tallied 21 points. He had a nice array of moves on offense, shooting from deep, and penetrating for a floater inside the line a few times.

After that first game, though, the most minutes he put up in a game was 15, he didn't shoot more than 3 3-ptrs in any one game, and didn't top 8 points in a game.

So, yes, he shot 33.3% for the season, but when you put up 21% of your 3pt attempts (7 of 33) in a single game, that's something you bring up in the analysis and note it as an anomaly, and then check out the remaining stats.

Figgie123 · #33 04-01-2016, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer

Regarding the free throws, 46% is really indefensible. Though I guess I could point out he only took 13. Small sample size.

Wait. So, 13 FT's is a small sample size, but the 33 3pt attempts in a season isn't? And you compare him to players and seasons where they took at least 3 times as many?

Scoochie's freshman year, he took twice as many as Mikesell.
Darrell Davis as a sophmore took 110 3pt attempts. 3 times as many.
Devin Oliver shot 19, 33 and 53 in his first 4 years, and many people didn't think he was a good 3pt shooter. (I would cry to myself, "NOOO!!!" when he would do it. But the Mississippi Bank was nice.)
Vee Sanford as a junior/senior shot 102 and 63 3s.

And I didn't dive into Cooke/Sibert's non-UD years because, well, because it wasn't at UD.

Why not compare him to Kyle Davis and Chris Wright while you are at it? (Hint: The 2 worst 3pt shooters in UD history who have taken at least 100.)

If Mikesell continued hitting 33% for his next 64 shots, he'd be 20th worst out of 55 players with 100 3pt shots. (Better than Marcus Johnson and worse than Marques Bennett.)

Gazoo · #34 04-01-2016, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

Also, I didnt see you compare his DREADFUL free throw % to anyone else.

Sibert was 10 / 18 as a freshman, or 55%.

Gazoo · #35 04-01-2016, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Smitty10

Ryan Mikesell's 3-point percentage after the first game was 22.2%, lower than anything you've shown above without DMO in it. Somehow I think we could've beaten SE Missouri St. with RM staying home.

Freshman year:
Sibert went 3-7 against Jackson St. in a blowout
Sibert went 2-4 against UT Rio Grande Valley in a blowout
Sibert went 4-6 against Northwestern in a blowout

So Sibert made 9 of his 13 3's (70% of the total for the year) in just 3 games, all of which were 30+ point blowouts, and all of which were before January.

At 13-50, you could take out the single game against Northwestern and you're left with 9/44 = 20.4%. Sometimes I'm not too good at math, but I think that's worse than Mikesell's 22.2% you mention above.

But hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a good story.

flyerfan4life · #36 04-01-2016, 12:19 PM

In closing, I'd like to say that Mikesell isn't a shooter....that's not who he is going to be, or who he has been in high school. Hopefully people can get that through their head and not expect him to become the second coming of Jon Diebler.

DallasFlyer · #37 04-01-2016, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Figgie123

Wait. So, 13 FT's is a small sample size, but the 33 3pt attempts in a season isn't? And you compare him to players and seasons where they took at least 3 times as many?

Good point. But 33 is more than 13. It's not a huge number but I don't know that I'd call it a small sample. Dayton played 33 games. So he averaged a 3 attempt per game.

I'm not going to go back and look every guy up again but Sibert took 32 threes his freshman year. So if you want to compare freshman year vs. freshman year on similar attempts, that's a good one I think. Sibert hit 25% of his threes.

Originally Posted by Figgie123

Scoochie's freshman year, he took twice as many as Mikesell.
Darrell Davis as a sophmore took 110 3pt attempts. 3 times as many.
Devin Oliver shot 19, 33 and 53 in his first 4 years, and many people didn't think he was a good 3pt shooter. (I would cry to myself, "NOOO!!!" when he would do it. But the Mississippi Bank was nice.)
Vee Sanford as a junior/senior shot 102 and 63 3s.

And I didn't dive into Cooke/Sibert's non-UD years because, well, because it wasn't at UD.

Well they play by the same rules in those other conferences so I don't see any reason not to make a comparison. Cooke took a lot of threes -- 71 and 94 at JMU. So if you want to throw him out based on number of attempts, you definitely could. As I said before Sibert took 32 his freshman year and managed to hoist 50 his sophomore year and fared almost as dreadfully.

Originally Posted by Figgie123

Why not compare him to Kyle Davis and Chris Wright while you are at it? (Hint: The 2 worst 3pt shooters in UD history who have taken at least 100.)

I thought about posting Kyle Davis's numbers, but knew he wasn't thought of as a shooter. As you point out, the exact same could be said for DMO who I did post. Against all odds, Oliver morphed into a good 3 pt shooter his senior year at a hair under 40% which is the reason I included him. Would be pretty cool if KD did the same in his senior year. As a junior he shot it a few tenths of a percentage better than Mikesell and has made some huge strides.

As for Chris Wright, I really didn't think he was taking threes. Must have blocked it from my memory. Yikes. He shouldn't have been. That's for sure.

Originally Posted by Figgie123

If Mikesell continued hitting 33% for his next 64 shots, he'd be 20th worst out of 55 players with 100 3pt shots. (Better than Marcus Johnson and worse than Marques Bennett.)

I would have totally included Marcus Johnson if it had occurred to me when I was thinking of guys to post...

Marques Bennett couldn't shoot, but man could he defend. If Ryan Mikesell could be half as good of a defender as that guy, he'd definitely be playing enough to get 60-75 3s up a year!

Smitty10 · #38 04-01-2016, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Freshman year:
Sibert went 3-7 against Jackson St. in a blowout
Sibert went 2-4 against UT Rio Grande Valley in a blowout
Sibert went 4-6 against Northwestern in a blowout

So Sibert made 9 of his 13 3's (70% of the total for the year) in just 3 games, all of which were 30+ point blowouts, and all of which were before January.

At 13-50, you could take out the single game against Northwestern and you're left with 9/44 = 20.4%. Sometimes I'm not too good at math, but I think that's worse than Mikesell's 22.2% you mention above.

But hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a good story.

You do realize that one game is 3 times the anomaly that three games are don't you? Pick someone else that you have to pull out 29 of their games to prove that Mikesell can be better than them and maybe then you'd realize that the more you drop, the worse your point is. I only had to drop one of Mikesell's games, you had to drop 3 of Sibert's. Yep, you showed me.

Figgie123 · #39 04-01-2016, 12:56 PM

You know me, I can't get away from a statistical debate...

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer

I'm not going to go back and look every guy up again but Sibert took 32 threes his freshman year. So if you want to compare freshman year vs. freshman year on similar attempts, that's a good one I think. Sibert hit 25% of his threes.

Agreed. UD True Freshman 3pt attempts ranked by attempts descending.

Code:


       plyr        | tpm | tpa | tpa_rank | tppct 
-------------------+-----+-----+----------+-------
 Cain Doliboa      |  11 |  41 |       20 | 0.268
 Khari Price       |  16 |  39 |       21 | 0.410
 Paul Williams     |  10 |  38 |       22 | 0.263
 David Morris      |  12 |  36 |       23 | 0.333
 Brandon Spearman  |  14 |  34 |       24 | 0.412
 Sam Miller        |  10 |  33 |       25 | 0.303
 Ryan Mikesell     |  11 |  33 |       25 | 0.333
 Alex Robertson    |   8 |  31 |       27 | 0.258
 Warren Williams   |   8 |  30 |       28 | 0.267
 Sean Scrutchins   |   9 |  26 |       29 | 0.346
 Juwan Staten      |   4 |  26 |       29 | 0.154
 John Crosby       |   6 |  22 |       31 | 0.273

Interesting company for sure.

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer

Well they play by the same rules in those other conferences so I don't see any reason not to make a comparison.

Never said not to make the comparison, just that I didn't because they aren't UD. I guess I'm just a UD-prude, that way.

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer

I thought about posting Kyle Davis's numbers, but knew he wasn't thought of as a shooter. As you point out, the exact same could be said for DMO who I did post. Against all odds, Oliver morphed into a good 3 pt shooter his senior year at a hair under 40% which is the reason I included him. Would be pretty cool if KD did the same in his senior year. As a junior he shot it a few tenths of a percentage better than Mikesell and has made some huge strides.

I cringe for Kyle's 3pt shots, just like I used to for DMO's 3pt shots. As you state, Oliver did very well his senior year, so it'd be nice if Kyle does too. And from a post earlier this season, Kyle has a bit of end of game ability with his 3pt shots.

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer

As for Chris Wright, I really didn't think he was taking threes. Must have blocked it from my memory. Yikes. He shouldn't have been. That's for sure.

Yea, he was. I shouldn't have brought it up, but it's one of those queries that is interesting to look at. I don't think people liked him shooting the 3s back in the day, but if I remember right, some arguments from the "let him shoot" was that BG was trying to "mold" him into a 3-spot for an NBA roster. Or something similar.

Figgie

Gazoo · #40 04-01-2016, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Smitty10

You do realize that one game is 3 times the anomaly that three games are don't you? Pick someone else that you have to pull out 29 of their games to prove that Mikesell can be better than them and maybe then you'd realize that the more you drop, the worse your point is. I only had to drop one of Mikesell's games, you had to drop 3 of Sibert's. Yep, you showed me.

I didn't drop 3. You made 2 points:

1. You said Mikesell had only 1 good game and it was in a blowout. I pointed out that 3 games where JS made multiple 3's were 30 point blowouts, and those 3 games accounted for a supermajority of all the shots he made for the whole year.

2. You said if you drop Mikesell's only good game he was only a 22% shooter. I pointed out that in a year where Sibert took 50 shots and made 13 while Mikesell took only 33 shots and made 11, you can drop 1 game from each and the shooting % drops to the low 20's. If you're going to drop Mikesell's best game, then drop JS's best game too. It's actually worse for JS (though his full year stats were also worse by ~2 made baskets) and he turned out to be a pretty good shooter for a guy with an injured shooting hand.

CJ43 · #41 04-01-2016, 01:15 PM

33.3% from 3 is the same as 50% from 2. Why is 33.3% considered bad??? Seems pretty respectable to me. The FT % I will agree with is bad but im sure its on limited attempts.

All of the guys mentioned above improved as they went on in their careers. Remember the college 3 point line is farther back than HS and hes taking much tougher shots than he was in HS. He'll be fine. I bet we wont be having this talk his junior year.

DallasFlyer · #42 04-01-2016, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Figgie123

Agreed. UD True Freshman 3pt attempts ranked by attempts descending.

Code:


       plyr        | tpm | tpa | tpa_rank | tppct 
-------------------+-----+-----+----------+-------
 Cain Doliboa      |  11 |  41 |       20 | 0.268
 Khari Price       |  16 |  39 |       21 | 0.410
 Paul Williams     |  10 |  38 |       22 | 0.263
 David Morris      |  12 |  36 |       23 | 0.333
 Brandon Spearman  |  14 |  34 |       24 | 0.412
 Sam Miller        |  10 |  33 |       25 | 0.303
 Ryan Mikesell     |  11 |  33 |       25 | 0.333
 Alex Robertson    |   8 |  31 |       27 | 0.258
 Warren Williams   |   8 |  30 |       28 | 0.267
 Sean Scrutchins   |   9 |  26 |       29 | 0.346
 Juwan Staten      |   4 |  26 |       29 | 0.154
 John Crosby       |   6 |  22 |       31 | 0.273

Interesting company for sure.

Very interesting. Paul Williams, Khari Price and Cain Doliboa were shooters if memory serves. So those are nice comparisons in terms of similar attempts for sure.

CT Flyer · #43 04-01-2016, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by CJ43

33.3% from 3 is the same as 50% from 2. Why is 33.3% considered bad??? Seems pretty respectable to me. The FT % I will agree with is bad but im sure its on limited attempts.

All of the guys mentioned above improved as they went on in their careers. Remember the college 3 point line is farther back than HS and hes taking much tougher shots than he was in HS. He'll be fine. I bet we wont be having this talk his junior year.

Similarly you have to remember that some of the guys mentioned in these arguments also had a closer three point line than what there is now.

UDDoug · #44 04-01-2016, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Freshman year:
Sibert went 3-7 against Jackson St. in a blowout
Sibert went 2-4 against UT Rio Grande Valley in a blowout
Sibert went 4-6 against Northwestern in a blowout

So Sibert made 9 of his 13 3's (70% of the total for the year) in just 3 games, all of which were 30+ point blowouts, and all of which were before January.

At 13-50, you could take out the single game against Northwestern and you're left with 9/44 = 20.4%. Sometimes I'm not too good at math, but I think that's worse than Mikesell's 22.2% you mention above.

But hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a good story.

Or take out all 3, and you are left with 4 for 33, or 12%. I know the point was drop the best game to pair it with Mikesell. Just pointing out how low the percentage was if you take out three early season blowouts.

It makes a huge difference if you are playing regular minutes or if you are getting minimal minutes. There is simply no way to know how any of the true freshmen turn out if your observation point is live games. If you get to see every practice, then you may have something tangible to draw from. But on an upper class dominated team, you just don't get the opportunities. If someone put up the stats averaging 15 minutes a game for the full year, you have a better feel. None did.

Crosby was little different than London Warren. Had trouble running half court, would get into the lane, turn it over or force up a shot. Despite never developing any kind of a shot outside 2 feet of the LW did ok. Crosby has far more potential to develop a shot from more than 2 feet.

They all have room to improve. How hard they work and take instruction will determine if they do.

Figgie123 · #45 04-01-2016, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Freshman year:
Sibert went 4-6 against Northwestern in a blowout

Originally Posted by UDDoug

...three early season blowouts.

I think Ohio State needs to stop scheduling lower level buy teams early in the season.....

(Oh, wait, wrong thread....)

shocka43 · #46 04-01-2016, 05:51 PM

I threw up a bit in my mouth when I saw Warren Williams name...

UDBrian · #47 04-01-2016, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

In closing, I'd like to say that Mikesell isn't a shooter....that's not who he is going to be, or who he has been in high school. Hopefully people can get that through their head and not expect him to become the second coming of Jon Diebler.

I think Mikesell will be a good 3pt shooter but he won't rely on it. He will also be productive moving without the ball. When he puts the ball on the floor he will find the open man. He should be a very good offensive player but not a spot up three point shooter. I would expect him to develop a nice floater

Gazoo · #48 04-02-2016, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by UDBrian

I think Mikesell will be a good 3pt shooter but he won't rely on it. He will also be productive moving without the ball. When he puts the ball on the floor he will find the open man. He should be a very good offensive player but not a spot up three point shooter. I would expect him to develop a nice floater

Agreed, he's just a basketball player. Not like the BG era where everyone did 1 thing. Mikesell appears to me at this very early stage to be someone who will be a very good basketball player in all phases of the game.

BRob2Perryman3 · #49 04-02-2016, 09:37 AM

Outside of Sibert,CJ and BRob...... probably the best pure 3 point shooter that instilled confidence in me was Khari. Dont know if the numbers back it up, but he was **** smooth from outside.........shame about his knees.

Jeff · #50 04-02-2016, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Gazoo

Agreed, he's just a basketball player. Not like the BG era where everyone did 1 thing. Mikesell appears to me at this very early stage to be someone who will be a very good basketball player in all phases of the game.

I agree. However, his playing time will depend on his ability to defend.

Alberto Strasse · #51 04-03-2016, 09:28 AM

will be regarded as one of the best pure shooters UD has recruited to the Men's program by the time he graduates. Beyond that he has Jim Paxson Jr.'s ability to move without the ball and can pass very well for a Freshman. At 6'7" he is a skilled offensive performer who must learn to guard smaller and quick players instead of the bigger guys he defended at the high school level.

rollo · #52 04-03-2016, 10:09 AM

I thought Mikesell was going to play baseball, too. But he's not listed on the roster. If you recall his recruiting thread, we all chimed in on whether or not it was a good idea to try and do both, and it looks like he got the message that 1 sport is enough.

But I don't recall there ever being a statement that he was no longer interested in baseball...did I miss it?

Buster Goode · #53 04-03-2016, 10:13 AM

Welcome to the off-season.....

UD62 · #54 04-03-2016, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by rollo

I thought Mikesell was going to play baseball, too. But he's not listed on the roster. If you recall his recruiting thread, we all chimed in on whether or not it was a good idea to try and do both, and it looks like he got the message that 1 sport is enough.

But I don't recall there ever being a statement that he was no longer interested in baseball...did I miss it?

Do you really believe that comments on this board regarding playing baseball, or not, played any part of RM not playing baseball?

flyerfan4life · #55 04-03-2016, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse

will be regarded as one of the best pure shooters UD has recruited to the Men's program by the time he graduates. Beyond that he has Jim Paxson Jr.'s ability to move without the ball and can pass very well for a Freshman. At 6'7" he is a skilled offensive performer who must learn to guard smaller and quick players instead of the bigger guys he defended at the high school level.

Hahahahahaha

UDBrian · #56 04-03-2016, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse

will be regarded as one of the best pure shooters UD has recruited to the Men's program by the time he graduates. Beyond that he has Jim Paxson Jr.'s ability to move without the ball and can pass very well for a Freshman. At 6'7" he is a skilled offensive performer who must learn to guard smaller and quick players instead of the bigger guys he defended at the high school level.

Archie said he would be one of the all time favorites. He does have an uncanny ability to find open spots when moving. He has a very good stroke and could also become a great shooter.

jack72 · #57 04-03-2016, 07:06 PM

Saying he will be an all time favorite may not equate to what he achieves. She/he has a great personality. He appears to already be a favorite of many despite not showing much.

Alberto Strasse · #58 04-03-2016, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

Hahahahahaha

must have scored a bunch on you in High School.

steve · #59 04-04-2016, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by UDBrian

Archie said he would be one of the all time favorites. He does have an uncanny ability to find open spots when moving. He has a very good stroke and could also become a great shooter.

And AM also said he could be one of the best before he's done..More than enough for me rather than a bunch of Miss Cloe's around here determining what a good shooter is, a great shooter is, what a great stroke someone has, and determining the future of an 18 year old kid..

longtimefan67 · #60 04-04-2016, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse

must have scored a bunch on you in High School.

I don't know what he's laughing at either. RM showed mostly poise when inserted into the lineup this year- which admittedly wasn't much second half of the season. But his BB IQ is very high. He needs to get stronger and then he can be as good as he wants to be. His stroke looks solid- just needs to build up a quicker release and he'll be OK. And yes he moves without the ball like Paxson did. That alone will take him far
Posted via Mobile Device

DallasFlyer · #61 04-04-2016, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by steve

And AM also said he could be one of the best before he's done..More than enough for me rather than a bunch of Miss Cloe's around here determining what a good shooter is, a great shooter is, what a great stroke someone has, and determining the future of an 18 year old kid..

Here is what Archie said about Mikesell:

"Ryan Mikesell will be one of the all-time favorites here one day," Miller predicted. "He plays a style that everyone relates to – he is very unselfish and makes his teammates better. He's 6-7 and his range on his shot is getting deeper, which is so key to be able to stretch floor. He is a high IQ player and his versatility will add to our depth at more than one position. Our strength program is going to be a huge benefit for him early on, and once his strength catches up to his skill level and basketball mindset, the sky is the limit."

So yes, Archie did suggest Mikesell would be an all-time favorite. As for "being one of the best before he's done," I suppose you can interpret "the sky is the limit" as meaning that. But that's kind of a thoughtless cliche that just gets thrown around all the time. So I'm not sure I'd interpret it that way. FWIW.

flybye · #62 04-04-2016, 02:21 PM

I think we should consider watching the 5th year transfer list. Just an thought. We need a spark a shooter. I don't know if Ryan is that guy. DD scoreless in last two games really hurt us. So do we think DD/Ryan can be that 6th man or is there an option? Very talented and Senior team coming back.

flyerfan4life · #63 04-05-2016, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse

must have scored a bunch on you in High School.

I'm much older them him, but certainly younger than you I would assume. I just think it's funny you're calling him an "all time" shooter at UD by the time he leaves.

flyerfan4life · #64 04-05-2016, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by longtimefan67

I don't know what he's laughing at either. RM showed mostly poise when inserted into the lineup this year- which admittedly wasn't much second half of the season. But his BB IQ is very high. He needs to get stronger and then he can be as good as he wants to be. His stroke looks solid- just needs to build up a quicker release and he'll be OK. And yes he moves without the ball like Paxson did. That alone will take him far
Posted via Mobile Device

"one of the best pure shooters to ever play at UD"......moves without the ball like Jim Paxon! Are you guys reading what you're writing? He may turn in to a solid player for us, I really hope he does. He has very little lateral quickness to be able to defend at the level Archie expects. He won't be on the floor enough at this point to be able to utilize any of his offensive strengths unfortunately.

Alberto Strasse · #65 04-05-2016, 02:06 PM

give the Sophomore to be a chance for a vision of success than a vision of failure. I trust Archie's ability to develop players and I do not believe that Archie would have recruited Ryan if he shared your vision.

flyerfan4life · #66 04-06-2016, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse

give the Sophomore to be a chance for a vision of success than a vision of failure. I trust Archie's ability to develop players and I do not believe that Archie would have recruited Ryan if he shared your vision.

I believe that Coach K would've recruited him if he shared your vision.

rollo · #67 04-06-2016, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

I believe that Coach K would've recruited him if he shared your vision.

D*mn that Luke Kennard! Whoda guessed Mikesell was that close to being a Blue Devil!

Gazoo · #68 04-06-2016, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

I believe that Coach K would've recruited him if he shared your vision.

Another plausible theory: Luke was ready to play immediately, Ryan is a slower developer.

NCkevi · #69 04-10-2016, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

I believe that Coach K would've recruited him if he shared your vision.

How many D1 coaches recuited Norris Cole who was drafted in the first round?
You can't always predict what a player will be like when they are 22 based on what they did when 17 or 18

flyerfan4life · #70 04-10-2016, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by NCkevi

How many D1 coaches recuited Norris Cole who was drafted in the first round?
You can't always predict what a player will be like when they are 22 based on what they did when 17 or 18

I realize that, but you can usually tell if they are going to become "one of the all time great shooters in UD history". Pretty unlikely when they didnt even shoot 40% from 3 in high school.

rollo · #71 04-10-2016, 10:10 AM

I can't believe nobody has identified the true reason people think Mikesell is an outside shooter...

...it's because he's white and nobody associates 6'6" white guys as slashers or athletes. They are all expected to be great 3-point shooter and masters of the FT.

Sad but true fact.

UDBrian · #72 04-10-2016, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

"one of the best pure shooters to ever play at UD"......moves without the ball like Jim Paxon! Are you guys reading what you're writing? He may turn in to a solid player for us, I really hope he does. He has very little lateral quickness to be able to defend at the level Archie expects. He won't be on the floor enough at this point to be able to utilize any of his offensive strengths unfortunately.

I think he will be a good shooterr, as good as Grevey? That is unlikely although he is starting with good mechanics. But, he does have an uncanny ability to find holes in the defense while moving without the ball. How many players have there been in recent memory with that ability.

I do agree he will need to play better defense in order to see the court

And I missed the part where anyone said that Mikesell would be one of the all time great shooters

flyerfan4life · #73 04-10-2016, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by UDBrian

I think he will be a good shooterr, as good as Grevey? That is unlikely although he is starting with good mechanics. But, he does have an uncanny ability to find holes in the defense while moving without the ball. How many players have there been in recent memory with that ability.

I do agree he will need to play better defense in order to see the court

And I missed the part where anyone said that Mikesell would be one of the all time great shooters

Alberto Strasse said it

maddog07 · #74 04-10-2016, 04:20 PM

Amazing that one can see his uncanny ability in just 25 made baskets.
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NCkevi · #75 04-10-2016, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by rollo

I can't believe nobody has identified the true reason people think Mikesell is an outside shooter...

...it's because he's white and nobody associates 6'6" white guys as slashers or athletes. They are all expected to be great 3-point shooter and masters of the FT.

Sad but true fact.

Or maybe because he went 5/7 from beyond the 3 point line in his first game showing he can shoot from the outside

flyerfan4life · #76 04-10-2016, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by NCkevi

Or maybe because he went 5/7 from beyond the 3 point line in his first game showing he can shoot from the outside

So it isnt okay to assume that they cant shoot from their high school stats...but, by God, if they go 5 for 7 in their first college game then it is perfectly fine to assume they can shoot from the outside.

NCkevi · #77 04-10-2016, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

So it isnt okay to assume that they cant shoot from their high school stats...but, by God, if they go 5 for 7 in their first college game then it is perfectly fine to assume they can shoot from the outside.

Skills can be learned/developed between the ages of 17 and 22 and once they are displayed they usually aren't lost the next year. It's not that hard if you apply some basic common sense. I never said he's going to lead the team in 3 point shooting; but he has shown he can make outside shots in games.

flyerfan4life · #78 04-10-2016, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by NCkevi

Skills can be learned/developed between the ages of 17 and 22 and once they are displayed they usually aren't lost the next year. It's not that hard if you apply some basic common sense. I never said he's going to lead the team in 3 point shooting; but he has shown he can make outside shots in games.

So has Kendall Pollard. You dont make much sense.

NCkevi · #79 04-10-2016, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

So has Kendall Pollard. You dont make much sense.

I think I do - I just think we disagree which is fine

My thinking:
There is something called player development.
Players often begin their college careers with a certain skill set.
Good coaches will helped them improve that skill set
Look at SS: freshman year shot 33.9% - junior year 44%

All because a player doesn't do something well as a 17 or 18 year old doesn't automatically mean he won't do that well by the time he's 22.

On the other hand, a player may display a skill set, such as RM showing he can shoot from the outside (if he couldn't he never would have gone 5/7 in a game)

Now so far he hasn't shown he can do that consistently but that is different than saying he can't do it and is probably also tied to not doing other things well which limited playing time

It's my Opinion that RM is an outside shooter, and can potentially be a regular threat, based on what I've seen and not because of his race as Rollo and you have suggested

flyerfan4life · #80 04-10-2016, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by NCkevi

I think I do - I just think we disagree which is fine

My thinking:
There is something called player development.
Players often begin their college careers with a certain skill set.
Good coaches will helped them improve that skill set
Look at SS: freshman year shot 33.9% - junior year 44%

All because a player doesn't do something well as a 17 or 18 year old doesn't automatically mean he won't do that well by the time he's 22.

On the other hand, a player may display a skill set, such as RM showing he can shoot from the outside (if he couldn't he never would have gone 5/7 in a game)

Now so far he hasn't shown he can do that consistently but that is different than saying he can't do it and is probably also tied to not doing other things well which limited playing time

It's my Opinion that RM is an outside shooter, and can potentially be a regular threat, based on what I've seen and not because of his race as Rollo and you have suggested

It isn't who he is. I hope you are correct though, because we definitely need shooters.

runnerup · #81 04-11-2016, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by NCkevi

I think I do - I just think we disagree which is fine

My thinking:
There is something called player development.
Players often begin their college careers with a certain skill set.
Good coaches will helped them improve that skill set
Look at SS: freshman year shot 33.9% - junior year 44%

All because a player doesn't do something well as a 17 or 18 year old doesn't automatically mean he won't do that well by the time he's 22.

On the other hand, a player may display a skill set, such as RM showing he can shoot from the outside (if he couldn't he never would have gone 5/7 in a game)

Now so far he hasn't shown he can do that consistently but that is different than saying he can't do it and is probably also tied to not doing other things well which limited playing time

It's my Opinion that RM is an outside shooter, and can potentially be a regular threat, based on what I've seen and not because of his race as Rollo and you have suggested

Remember DMO as a freshman?

maddog07 · #82 04-11-2016, 09:08 AM

Remember Ralph Hill as a freshmen??

rollo · #83 04-11-2016, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by runnerup

Remember DMO as a freshman?

And a sophomore...and a junior...

FLYER5 · #84 04-11-2016, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by rollo

And a sophomore...and a junior...

Mikesell has too much going for him to pigeon-hole him as a freshman. So he's not your prototypical knock-down shooter. After his freshman year. He is a well-rounded offensive player who needs work in certain areas, like defense, lateral quickness, .....and defense.. Assessed after his freshman season. Let's re-visit this thread. I will say that I am mostly in dallas's, shocka's and gazoo's corner on Mikesell. And shapanud, I see some of Jimmy Paxson in RM too as he moves to get open. And it's been awhile since I was reminded of that. I think that if RM doesn't meet most people's expectations it will be due to not being able to get quicker and get better defensively.

Alberto Strasse · #85 04-11-2016, 10:22 AM

You have my permission to die.

DallasFlyer · #86 04-11-2016, 10:25 AM

I'll add this now. Before it's all said and done, it wouldn't surprise me to see Ryan Mikesell log some minutes at PG for Dayton. I know he played there in high school, and I think he has the ability to set others up. In that first game against the truly awful SEMO, he did have 4 assists. Certainly, he is a very good ball-handler.

FLYER5 · #87 04-11-2016, 10:33 AM

He's a facilitator, Dallas, so yeah I could see him playing some point given the situation and circumstance. I think his ability to move without the ball is a direct reflection of his ability to facilitate in an offense. The thing that will enable him improve is his seemingly high basketball IQ. The thing that could hurt him is lack of athleticism.

flyerfan4life · #88 04-11-2016, 10:41 AM

HaHa. He will NEVER play the PG position at UD. You can take that to the bank.

FLYER5 · #89 04-11-2016, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

HaHa. He will NEVER play the PG position at UD. You can take that to the bank.

Not feeling your investment consultant potential

Whacker · #90 04-11-2016, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by rollo

I can't believe nobody has identified the true reason people think Mikesell is an outside shooter...

...it's because he's white and nobody associates 6'6" white guys as slashers or athletes. They are all expected to be great 3-point shooter and masters of the FT.

Sad but true fact.

AKA Jimmie Binnie Syndrome

DallasFlyer · #91 04-11-2016, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by FLYER5

He's a facilitator, Dallas, so yeah I could see him playing some point given the situation and circumstance. I think his ability to move without the ball is a direct reflection of his ability to facilitate in an offense. The thing that will enable him improve is his seemingly high basketball IQ. The thing that could hurt him is lack of athleticism.

The term athleticism gets thrown around a lot and sometimes in basketball conversation is reduced to mean very specific skills - vertical jump, lateral quickness, etc. But Mikesell is as good of an athlete as Dayton has. The only one who committed to Dayton as a two-sport athlete in fact.

The key for any PG is the ability to penetrate and catch the defense off guard. Scoochie's shiftiness and ability to change direction, allows him to do that. As Scoochie has become a very good shooter, it's become easier to do that, because defenders fly at him too quickly worried the shot is coming. Very easy for Scooch to blow by that guy.

If Mikesell can burn teams with his shooting, and if he can really make the pump fake a weapon, then he should have no problem getting around guys. In limited minutes, he's already shown the ability to get into the lane. Mikesell may not have that lightning quick change of direction, but he has other advantages - i.e. the height to see, pass and shoot over defenses.

On the defensive end, could Mikesell stay with a lighting quick waterbug of a PG? Probably not. But he can definitely create match up problems on the other end. As has been said before, there is a lot Mikesell can conceivably do, if he can match up well enough against someone on the defensive end to not be a liability.

DallasFlyer · #92 04-11-2016, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life

HaHa. He will NEVER play the PG position at UD. You can take that to the bank.

I'd be surprised if he ever started there, but I think he might be the 3rd best PG on the team right now because I don't think Darrell Davis would run the offense better than him if it came to it. Obviously, I hope an injury or two doesn't force it to fruition. But I think to guarantee this, you are basically guaranteeing against injury. Hope you are right.

DallasFlyer · #93 04-11-2016, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Whacker

AKA Jimmie Binnie Syndrome

Totally. If you're from Iowa or from rural St. Henry's Ohio, you are supposed to be shooting baskets on the side of a barn all day. Honestly, it's 100% Larry Bird's fault, but these guys aren't exactly running from the stereotype either... I mean they BOTH chose Larry's #33 jersey. What's up with that?

FLYER5 · #94 04-11-2016, 11:27 AM

I don't think RM is going to turn any heads for his short-area quickness, leaping ability, speed, or really any athletic metric to be honest. I think he will be more of a scrapper, and I don't mind that because given his smarts he'll always pursue at the right angles, which negates the speed of some more athletic players. But I don't see a good athlete. I see a good basketball player. Hope I'm proven wrong but his three-cone drill or short-shuttle would be....off the charts bad. Tough being a skinny 6'5" white kid, Rollo

jack72 · #95 04-11-2016, 11:34 AM

93 posts on a thread about one average freshman. Everything from great shooter to point guard, and someone needs to post he can play center and be the next Kareem. Reminds me of the lengthy thread about a year ago about some 6'2" local kid, who played under the basket, and UD had to recruit, because he would be the next great thing. What happened to him?

FLYER5 · #96 04-11-2016, 11:53 AM

Hey Jack, somebody already posted above what Archie thought about Mikesell, so one of those over-inflated opinions is his. Just sayin, maybe 92 uneducated opinions but the one that Archie gave was more glowing than anything I've read here from any of the peons, peasants and gypsies... Read it again...

rollo · #97 04-11-2016, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by FLYER5

...maybe 92 uneducated opinions...

Since I made 4 comments, I'm sure you meant '88'.

No offense taken as I know you meant everyone else.

jack72 · #98 04-11-2016, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by FLYER5

Hey Jack, somebody already posted above what Archie thought about Mikesell, so one of those over-inflated opinions is his. Just sayin, maybe 92 uneducated opinions but the one that Archie gave was more glowing than anything I've read here from any of the peons, peasants and gypsies... Read it again...

Here is what Archie said about Mikesell:

"Ryan Mikesell will be one of the all-time favorites here one day," Miller predicted. "He plays a style that everyone relates to – he is very unselfish and makes his teammates better. He's 6-7 and his range on his shot is getting deeper, which is so key to be able to stretch floor. He is a high IQ player and his versatility will add to our depth at more than one position. Our strength program is going to be a huge benefit for him early on, and once his strength catches up to his skill level and basketball mindset, the sky is the limit."

Yep, that is true. Archie said, he would go down as one of the all time crowd favorites, and that is why he gets 92 posts, and the other freshman almost none. I do not think Archie's opinion is over-inflated. The kid is already very popular in limited time.

FLYER5 · #99 04-11-2016, 12:09 PM

You're backing up, Jack. How does a player become an all-time crowd favorite? Not by following your lead..

Didn't mean that to be taken in the wrong context! Just talking about following your lead in this thread.

flyerfan4life · #**100** 04-11-2016, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by jack72

Here is what Archie said about Mikesell:

"Ryan Mikesell will be one of the all-time favorites here one day," Miller predicted. "He plays a style that everyone relates to – he is very unselfish and makes his teammates better. He's 6-7 and his range on his shot is getting deeper, which is so key to be able to stretch floor. He is a high IQ player and his versatility will add to our depth at more than one position. Our strength program is going to be a huge benefit for him early on, and once his strength catches up to his skill level and basketball mindset, the sky is the limit."

Yep, that is true. Archie said, he would go down as one of the all time crowd favorites, and that is why he gets 92 posts, and the other freshman almost none. I do not think Archie's opinion is over-inflated. The kid is already very popular in limited time.

He had all of these glowing things to say about him, and then hardly played him during the season. Certainly he's going to talk positive about an incoming recruit, and I do believe that Ryan will be a "fan favorite", but I wouldn't put much in to what a coach says about an incoming recruit.