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03-18-2017, 05:58 AM
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Reaction from the media about the game
I know this may not make a lot of you feel better when you get up but I've found these articles about the game
http://www.si.com/college-basketball...a-state-dayton
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...caa-tournament
edit: let me add this one. I'm really becoming a Gregg Marshall fan here: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/wichita...050022013.html
I'm sure there are others out there but the bottom line is there seems to be consensus that both us and WSU got royally hosed by the committee for having to play each other so early in the tournament. That there now seems to be (SEEMS TO BE??? THERE IS!!!) a bias towards the power 5 schools thats going to widen as those leagues to to a 20 game conference schedule.
Too bad the best game of the first round had to be played by 2 teams that deserved far better than this
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03-18-2017, 10:13 AM
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Can't complain to much because you have to beat the teams in front of you, and the Flyers had a reasonable chance to win. IMO NCAA screwed up the Shockers seeding. Flyers were probably about right.
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03-18-2017, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rasta man
I know this may not make a lot of you feel better when you get up but I've found these articles about the game
http://www.si.com/college-basketball...a-state-dayton
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...caa-tournament
edit: let me add this one. I'm really becoming a Gregg Marshall fan here:http://sports.yahoo.com/news/wichita...050022013.html
I'm sure there are others out there but the bottom line is there seems to be consensus that both us and WSU got royally hosed by the committee for having to play each other so early in the tournament. That there now seems to be (SEEMS TO BE??? THERE IS!!!) a bias towards the power 5 schools thats going to widen as those leagues to to a 20 game conference schedule.
Too bad the best game of the first round had to be played by 2 teams that deserved far better than this
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And not to say our game wasn't great but if you saw the USC/SMU game I think that takes the cake as best first round game.
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03-18-2017, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rasta man
I know this may not make a lot of you feel better when you get up but I've found these articles about the game
I'm sure there are others out there but the bottom line is there seems to be consensus that both us and WSU got royally hosed by the committee for having to play each other so early in the tournament. That there now seems to be (SEEMS TO BE??? THERE IS!!!) a bias towards the power 5 schools thats going to widen as those leagues to to a 20 game conference schedule.
Too bad the best game of the first round had to be played by 2 teams that deserved far better than this
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Got a lot of respect for WSU and Marshall; basically telling it exactly how it is. I look forward to the Sunday game; hope to see gnashing of teeth in Kentucky Monday morning.
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03-18-2017, 12:59 PM
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You pair us with Okie State or Marquette (both 10 seeds) and we're playing Sunday.
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03-18-2017, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Canonball
Can't complain to much because you have to beat the teams in front of you, and the Flyers had a reasonable chance to win. IMO NCAA screwed up the Shockers seeding. Flyers were probably about right.
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Yeah, Archie was quoted in today's DDN as saying the Shockers should have been a 4 or a 5. After what I saw last night, I agree. UD was probably about right as a 7, but Wichita State should have been no lower than a 5.
My real question is: will this serve as a lesson to The Committee for next year? My hope is "Yes", but my concern is "No". They need to go back and review how they under-seeded some teams (ex. Wichita State & Rhode Island), and over-seeded others (ex. Minnesota & Creighton), based on the First Round games, and potentially today's & tomorrow's results. Which metrics predicted those outcomes ([cough] KenPom), and did just as well in the results where the seeding wasn't too far off? Hopefully, The Committee will be always searching for the right way to get the best teams (a) into the tournament and (b) aligned so that the 32 best teams come out of the first round, the 16 best teams come out of the second round, and so on.
Well, I can hope, can't I?
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03-18-2017, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
Yeah, Archie was quoted in today's DDN as saying the Shockers should have been a 4 or a 5. After what I saw last night, I agree. UD was probably about right as a 7, but Wichita State should have been no lower than a 5.
My real question is: will this serve as a lesson to The Committee for next year? My hope is "Yes", but my concern is "No". They need to go back and review how they under-seeded some teams (ex. Wichita State & Rhode Island), and over-seeded others (ex. Minnesota & Creighton), based on the First Round games, and potentially today's & tomorrow's results. Which metrics predicted those outcomes ([cough] KenPom), and did just as well in the results where the seeding wasn't too far off? Hopefully, The Committee will be always searching for the right way to get the best teams (a) into the tournament and (b) aligned so that the 32 best teams come out of the first round, the 16 best teams come out of the second round, and so on.
Well, I can hope, can't I?
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Yep, I hope year after year, but nothing changes.
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03-18-2017, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
And not to say our game wasn't great but if you saw the USC/SMU game I think that takes the cake as best first round game.
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Disagree. SMU offense and coaching was comatose the second half. USC just let them implode.
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03-18-2017, 06:40 PM
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And our offense was alive and well????
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03-18-2017, 09:42 PM
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I think it stings most because Scoochie is officially done. We've been spoiled with a PG who could run the show from day 1. Big shoes to fill.
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03-18-2017, 11:20 PM
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tell me that Wisconsin wasn't underseeded as an 8 after today, Purdue and Minnesota given higher seeds?
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03-18-2017, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
....
My real question is: will this serve as a lesson to The Committee for next year?
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I think you are being delusional.... the "committee" is doing exactly what they want to do... maximize the take for the power 5 teams..... and minimizing the take for the non-power 5 teams.
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03-18-2017, 11:32 PM
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makes me sick X got Florida State. Three years running
we were either given an awful match up or screwed
with the play in game. No team was given a worse
first game then us.
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03-18-2017, 11:39 PM
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I just want to point to out how Archie has raised expectations for the program.
Seems that a few years ago, we were happy to just make the NCAAT. Now, we are really pi**ed off when we lose in the NCAAT.
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03-19-2017, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67
I think you are being delusional.... the "committee" is doing exactly what they want to do... maximize the take for the power 5 teams..... and minimizing the take for the non-power 5 teams.
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Not delusional. Just a bit of an idealist. Idealistic enough to want only the best teams to advance in the national championship tournament.
That said, I'm realistic enough to know that the NCAA is one great-big country club, that wants to preserve the illusion that everyone has a chance to win the crown, but then stacks the deck so that only a few teams truly have a real shot at it. And once they see teams almost get there that no one expected to get there, they stack the deck against those teams in the future.
To put it in Caddyshack terms, the NCAA is Bushwood and UD, Wichita State, etc. are Al Czervik. Or the gopher...
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03-19-2017, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
Not delusional. Just a bit of an idealist. Idealistic enough to want only the best teams to advance in the national championship tournament.
That said, I'm realistic enough to know that the NCAA is one great-big country club, that wants to preserve the illusion that everyone has a chance to win the crown, but then stacks the deck so that only a few teams truly have a real shot at it. And once they see teams almost get there that no one expected to get there, they stack the deck against those teams in the future.
To put it in Caddyshack terms, the NCAA is Bushwood and UD, Wichita State, etc. are Al Czervik. Or the gopher...
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Totally agree, but they can only stack the deck so much.
Gonzaga, Xavier, and Butler still beat/overcame the crooked system and made it through to the Sweet 16, and those 3 definitely are not members of the P5/NCAA Country Club.
And Rhode Island and WSU still have a chance.
The P5/NCAA still can't job everybody, even though they try their hardest, it is not possible to job everybody.
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03-19-2017, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Totally agree, but they can only stack the deck so much.
Gonzaga, Xavier, and Butler still beat/overcame the crooked system and made it through to the Sweet 16, and those 3 definitely are not members of the P5/NCAA Country Club.
And Rhode Island and WSU still have a chance.
The P5/NCAA still can't job everybody, even though they try their hardest, it is not possible to job everybody.
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If X and Butler are not part of the country club then they must be in their initiation phase because the last time I looked the Big East gets some pretty preferential treatment like the P5.
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03-19-2017, 10:50 AM
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KY is well rested after their stroll in the park against NKU, and meanwhile WSU had to exert maximum effort to pull one out. I hope, big time, that WSU takes KY to the woodshed today!
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03-19-2017, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72
KY is well rested after their stroll in the park against NKU, and meanwhile WSU had to exert maximum effort to pull one out. I hope, big time, that WSU takes KY to the woodshed today!
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I wouldn't call UK's win against NKU a stroll in the park. Only beat them by 9.
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03-19-2017, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by O'side Flyer
I wouldn't call UK's win against NKU a stroll in the park. Only beat them by 9.
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I watched the whole game. Ky played like we played at UMass and GW. Saving it for today.
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03-19-2017, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Canonball
Can't complain to much because you have to beat the teams in front of you, and the Flyers had a reasonable chance to win. IMO NCAA screwed up the Shockers seeding. Flyers were probably about right.
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Disagree. Committee needs to use some logic.
Dayton had the most difficult path to the Sweet 16 since 2002 (the year kenpom began). Had to beat #6 nationally Wichita State and #4 Kentucky. This is more difficult than any 16 seed who even if they have to beat #1, then get someone around #32 or worst case #20.
7 Seed Dayton got #6 Wichita State and #4 Kentucky. 10 Seed Xavier got #48 Maryland and #24 FL State.
Dayton great chance to be in Sweet 16 with Xavier's draw, almost no chance with Dayton's draw.
Committee needs to be accountable, just a joke of seeding with Maryland and Wichita State.
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03-19-2017, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
I watched the whole game. Ky played like we played at UMass and GW. Saving it for today.
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I stayed for the UK game and they toyed with NKU like a playful cat would a scared mouse. If basketball were played 'first to 100' UK would have won 100-20. They tried different sets, took ill-advised shots and half-*ss defense most of the game. I will say this...UK has 0 discipline...NONE. When they lose, it'll be 100% because they do what they want too often despite Calipari's pleas from the sideline.
Regardless, I'm shocked WSU stayed with UK today. UK is so loooong and athletic I was somewhat certain it would be a 10-12 point UK win.
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03-19-2017, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
I stayed for the UK game and they toyed with NKU like a playful cat would a scared mouse. If basketball were played 'first to 100' UK would have won 100-20. They tried different sets, took ill-advised shots and half-*ss defense most of the game. I will say this...UK has 0 discipline...NONE. When they lose, it'll be 100% because they do what they want too often despite Calipari's pleas from the sideline.
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I stayed until about midway through the 2nd half when I had run out of the small bottles of vodka I had snuck in. UK was doing exactly what Rollo said the entire game. It felt like a scrimmage and UK was just messing around the whole night.
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03-19-2017, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time
I stayed until about midway through the 2nd half when I had run out of the small bottles of vodka I had snuck in. UK was doing exactly what Rollo said the entire game. It felt like a scrimmage and UK was just messing around the whole night.
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My son went to the men's room and came back with a picture of 4 little bottles of vodka left in the bathroom...were those yours?
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03-19-2017, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
My son went to the men's room and came back with a picture of 4 little bottles of vodka left in the bathroom...were those yours?
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Heck no. I just poured my vodka at my seat and left the bottles under the seat.
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03-19-2017, 11:25 PM
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Doesn't KenPom use margin of victory in his rankings? Margin of victory has no business being included in either seeding decisions or who gets in. Every win should count as a win and every loss should count as a loss. Good sportsmanship (not running up the score) should not be punished in any way at all. And a team that wins (just barely) should be fully rewarded for the win - not punished for just being 'about as good' as the opponent. Look at opponents, number of wins, where games were played, etc. But not margin of victory.
I'm sure Wichita State also did well in advanced metrics that don't use margin of victory, but whatever is used for determining the bracket, it should be score-neutral.
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03-20-2017, 09:47 AM
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