Who's up next???

[Whacker]

Originally Posted by UDBrian The next time I hear a coach say he is happy and has no reason to leave I won't believe it is the entire truth

You and the rest of the civilized world.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by The Fly From Andy Katz (though I hope not true): http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=2...925468921040-4

The bad news is Groce is far from the best choice in my opinion. The good news is Groce is far from the worst choice in my opinion. But it really seems like Katz is literally just throwing out a name "that might be viable" without any indication that either side is even interested in the other. Like he thought he should file an update on the Dayton job, but didn't actually have an update so he just made up the most vaguest of reports.

[C-time]

BTW I have decided that there are two people you are allowed to tweet during the coaching search.

1. President Spina. So if a name like Groce or Paulus pops up on the radar feel free to tweet him and tell him you think that guy would be awful.
https://twitter.com/DaytonPrezSpina

2. Ray Harper so you can express your hopes that he is the next Dayton coach and that you fully support him.
https://twitter.com/CoachRHarper

But as always: Don't tweet the recruits!

[AZFlyer85]

Andy Katz throwing out John Groce's name - great idea to hire a coach who failed "big league" at Illinois.

[flyerfanatic86]

Originally Posted by C-time BTW I have decided that there are two people you are allowed to tweet during the coaching search. 1. President Spina. So if a name like Groce or Paulus pops up on the radar feel free to tweet him and tell him you think that guy would be awful. https://twitter.com/DaytonPrezSpina 2. Ray Harper so you can express your hopes that he is the next Dayton coach and that you fully support him. https://twitter.com/CoachRHarper But as always: Don't tweet the recruits!

And of course, feel free to tweet President Spina and let him know that he should hire Ray Harper. He's the only real choice.

[DallasFlyer]

Tweet from BlackburnReview:
UD has allegedly interviewed both assistants, reached out to Grant and Whitford.

No idea the credibility of the info that they received, but at least it's an actual report unlike that completely worthless report from Andy Katz.

[BeckysTXA]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer Tweet from BlackburnReview: UD has allegedly interviewed both assistants, reached out to Grant and Whitford. No idea the credibility of the info that they received, but at least it's an actual report unlike that completely worthless report from Andy Katz.

And I don't think anyone would question this is a real possibility. It seems very logical and rational. As well as probably a couple more name they don't know about.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by C-time This! I fear he would use the Izzo system and I can't handle watching that. BG 2.0 would be awful.

Kind of sounds like Crean would also be BG 2.0. We do not need to go down that road again.

[Medford]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer Tweet from BlackburnReview: UD has allegedly interviewed both assistants, reached out to Grant and Whitford. No idea the credibility of the info that they received, but at least it's an actual report unlike that completely worthless report from Andy Katz.

BlackburnReview has more than once come up with news before its public, they don't spread rumor just to spread rumor, though they offer a big dose of humor and irreverence. Anyhoo, I'd trust that what they tweeted comes from good sources.

Whitford would be interesting, he coached Jesse Berry during his senior season at Ball St, so we could come full circle on that once committed recruit

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by ud2 Kind of sounds like Crean would also be BG 2.0. We do not need to go down that road again.

Crean has at least been away from Izzo for a while and was able to adapt on his own and develop his own style. BG and Fife would have come straight from coaching under Izzo. So it is a little different.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer Tweet from BlackburnReview: UD has allegedly interviewed both assistants, reached out to Grant and Whitford. No idea the credibility of the info that they received, but at least it's an actual report unlike that completely worthless report from Andy Katz.

Aren't there 3 assistants?

[C-time]

Originally Posted by ud2 Aren't there 3 assistants?

I really haven't heard that Griffin is being considered so that's probably why they said "both assistants"

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by Medford Whitford would be interesting, he coached Jesse Berry during his senior season at Ball St, so we could come full circle on that once committed recruit

Yeah, I'd like a guy that's got more on his resume than a couple of CIT appearances. Fife, Paulus and Whitford all sound terrible to me.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan After 24 hours of thought, a few hours of sleep, and a bottle of happy juice last night next to my bon fire, I have come to the conclusion this is the best option. Hire Kuwik, and announce it by this time tomorrow As part of the deal, make Ostrom one of the highest paid assistant coaches in all of basketball. (Assuming Kuwik likes my idea on Ostrom) Good coaching duo moving forward, and by all accounts two great recruiters. Hopefully most of our incoming class would stay.

The smartest guy I know posted this on here 48 hours ago. What are you waiting on Flyers? Get with it!

[Sitdowndigger]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan The smartest guy I know posted this on here 48 hours ago. What are you waiting on Flyers? Get with it!

This!!!!!!

Hence the thread mentioning of Kuwik vs Ostrom vs Both!
Posted via Mobile Device

[CE80]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan The smartest guy I know posted this on here 48 hours ago. What are you waiting on Flyers? Get with it!

Beers are on me if it happens.

[ruechalgrin]

Originally Posted by Chris R All well and good. But Grant also coached at Alabama. You cannot evaluate his resume' by throwing out half the body of work. Evaluation must be on the totality. Its like evaluating Brian Gregory and completely dismissing his tenure at Georgia Tech as irrelevant. Its all relevant.

Fair that I might be too positive on Grant. I probably skewed too much that way. But his Alabama resume in terms of kenpom rankings pretty similar to Archie's. With two huge exceptions, NCAA appearances/wins. Also Archie much higher success versus A teams. I would have to dig much deeper to have a real view on this lack of success versus A teams. My hypothesis is worse overall versus A teams than Archie, but not as bad at raw numbers indicate as exponentially more difficult to win @KY or @FL versus @Rhody. All 3 are A games. But @KY, a team ranked 50 (like Dayton, VCU, or Bama) would be like 5-10% to win whereas a team ranked 50 would be like 35-40% to win @Rhody. Both A wins, but materially different in level of difficulty. Don't have time to do this analysis.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin Fair that I might be too positive on Grant. I probably skewed too much that way. But his Alabama resume in terms of kenpom rankings pretty similar to Archie's. With two huge exceptions, NCAA appearances/wins. Also Archie much higher success versus A teams. I would have to dig much deeper to have a real view on this lack of success versus A teams. My hypothesis is worse overall versus A teams than Archie, but not as bad at raw numbers indicate as exponentially more difficult to win @KY or @FL versus @Rhody. All 3 are A games. But @KY, a team ranked 50 (like Dayton, VCU, or Bama) would be like 5-10% to win whereas a team ranked 50 would be like 35-40% to win @Rhody. Both A wins, but materially different in level of difficulty. Don't have time to do this analysis.

So what you are saying is Grant is gathering steam. I think I know a job where your sharp analysis may be valued.

[ruechalgrin]

Trust the process.

Indiana AD knew weeks before he would fire Crean. It still took him 9 days post Crean dismissal as well as 8 days post Archie's NCAA loss to announce it.

Neil Sullivan has had only 72 hours since the announcement. Give him some time. He is bright, hard-working, and very thoughtful.

This is a 5+ year decision, a couple extra days of thoughtful deliberation is the right pace. Time is off the essence, but getting it right more important.

#TRusttheprocess

[ruechalgrin]

Originally Posted by CE80 So what you are saying is Grant is gathering steam. I think I know a job where your sharp analysis may be valued.

Do not know the status of Grant. I focused on Grant as a lot a people were down on Grant in the thread Statistically he was pretty good at Alabama and VCU, much much better than I thought. But consistently bad in luck factor (which could be unlucky or could be bad late game coaching). Could have done the same analysis on the others rumored.

Easier to analyze Groce, Weber, Grant, Whitford, and other rumored head coaches as they have a statistical record to analyze. Assistant Coaches are more of a crapshoot. Neil Sullivan, Dan Curran, Dave Harper, and Tim Wabler did a great job with Archie but who really knew that a 31/32 year old guy was going to become a top 15 coach in the nation. BG had the same reputation when Dayton hired him and I think he flatlined at about a top 75 coach.

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[OSU Flyer]

Anthony Grant is a Flyer and I respect but there's no way he would be considered if he wasn't an alum. He did worse than Mark Gottfried the guy he took over for at Bama. Gottfried made 5 straight tourneys and elite 8. Grant played in a weak SEC and made the tourney once in six years. He finished 5 games over .500 for his career at Alabama in a conference where the consensus was it was down

A good comparison for Anthony is Dennis Felton who was just hired at Cleveland St. Felton is 53 and Grant is 50 and they both had a similar career trajectory.

Anthony got his start at VCU and had three good seasons there. Felton took over a similar program at Western Kentucky and rebuilt it vs inheriting an NBA player in Eric Maynor and a good situation like Grant. Felton took Western the NCAA's three years in a row and accepted the Georgia after the 02-03 season.

Both Anthony Grant and Felton spent six seasons in the SEC and each had a NCAA tourney appearance. Felton had 2 NIT trips and Grant 2 & was let go before his 3rd.

Felton like Grant went to the NBA after getting fired from the SEC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis...oaching_record
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthon...oaching_record

I'm not sure how anyone could like at Grant's track record and think he'd continue an upward trajectory for the program

[The Fly]

Here's another guy spewing Groce "sources." Gotta believe this is nonsense: https://mobile.twitter.com/RydquistS...rousel-29.html

Too horrible to contemplate.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by The Fly Here's another guy spewing Groce "sources." Gotta believe this is nonsense: https://mobile.twitter.com/RydquistS...rousel-29.html Too horrible to contemplate.

I am sure his "source" is Andy Katz article. I doubt this guy has any real connections to the Dayton search.

[big jordan]

I understand the obsession over this topic, as it's a massive decision. But I certainly hope that the AD isn't making a decision using similar analysis as a lot of posters on this board.

Context is everything. This season was one for the ages by Archie because he coaxed a 7 seed out of a team who's only true big man passed away and best frouncourt player (yeah I said it, healthy Cunningham > Pollard) missed 2.5 months. Brian Gregory missing the NCAA with a senior Brian Roberts was completely understandable, as Chris Wright was injured for all of conference play after that RI game. On the other side, it was not acceptable when the NIT championship team missed the NCAA.

So for everyone throwing out results of different coaches - did you honestly follow situations carefully enough to make sweeping conclusions about any of them? Maybe a few of you know a lot about specific candidates, but I find it difficult to believe that any of you could detail each candidate's coaching philosophy, let alone why one season would have ended up poorly or gone better than expected.

	Chris Wright CHRIS WRIGHT 6-8 225lb | Trotwood Madison, HS (OH) A10 All Rookie Team. Preseason 2008 2nd Team All A10. Member of the UD Flight Club with a 40+ inch vertical leap. Consensus Top-75 national recruit. Uncle is former Flyer J.D. Grigsby. Nickname is Top Flyght. CAREER STATS 2007-08 10.4ppg 5.7rpg

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[AC91]

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin Trust the process. Indiana AD knew weeks before he would fire Crean. It still took him 9 days post Crean dismissal as well as 8 days post Archie's NCAA loss to announce it. Neil Sullivan has had only 72 hours since the announcement. Give him some time. He is bright, hard-working, and very thoughtful. This is a 5+ year decision, a couple extra days of thoughtful deliberation is the right pace. Time is off the essence, but getting it right more important. #TRusttheprocess

you're right...i just wish it would hurry the **** up!!!! ;-)

[ud2]

Regarding Groce/Illinois.



http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/n...ge-in-chicago/:


Illinois’ inability to recruit the Chicago area isn’t about Chicago Public League coaches feeling ignored and disrespected by previous Illini coaches, a common complaint in the past. Players these days are more likely to listen to their AAU coaches and their AAU teammates than their high school coaches when pondering college options. Thanks to social media and travel teams, these kids are connected to a much bigger world than the players who came before them.

[N2663R]

Did we miss on Baker Dunleavy or would UD have been over his head. Seems to have a great assistant coach resume and a solid pedigree. Just curious?

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by N2663R Did we miss on Baker Dunleavy or would UD have been over his head. Seems to have a great assistant coach resume and a solid pedigree. Just curious?

Like I said earlier if he was in the running and hired for Quinnipiac then he was not ready for UD. Either that or Quinnipiac got a huge steal.

[Runnin' Rebel]

Kuwik vs Ostrom...

Wondering what you all have observed, but while watching UD's games this year I noticed Ostrom being much more of a bench coach than Kuwik.

Seems like I'd see Ostrom jump off the bench and yell what play to run to Archie multiple times.

[MNFats]

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel Kuwik vs Ostrom... Wondering what you all have observed, but while watching UD's games this year I noticed Ostrom being much more of a bench coach than Kuwik. Seems like I'd see Ostrom jump off the bench and yell what play to run to Archie multiple times.

If it truly comes down to the two of them - Archie would have the best POV on who is more qualified. Of course - it is to his benefit to make sure that person didn't get the job so that he can bring him to IU.

Crap.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel Kuwik vs Ostrom... Wondering what you all have observed, but while watching UD's games this year I noticed Ostrom being much more of a bench coach than Kuwik. Seems like I'd see Ostrom jump off the bench and yell what play to run to Archie multiple times.

You may be right, but you need to remember that each assistant is responsible for scouting different teams. So if the scout is Ostrom's for that game he will be more active. If the scout is Kuwik's he would be more active that night.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel Kuwik vs Ostrom... Wondering what you all have observed, but while watching UD's games this year I noticed Ostrom being much more of a bench coach than Kuwik. Seems like I'd see Ostrom jump off the bench and yell what play to run to Archie multiple times.

That's kind of the opposite of what perception I think is. Ostrom's calling card has been recruiting, but I have no doubt he's learned a thing or two about the Xs and Os. SI article about Ostrom that's worth a read if you haven't read it before:

http://www.si.com/college-basketball...south-regional

"Ostrom established himself as a player in the high-stakes world of college basketball recruiting. His journey offers a window in the high-wire existence of a college basketball coach. Ostrom has a national championship ring for a team he didn't coach, recruited a perennial NBA All-Star and has been hired, fired and demoted everywhere from the Sun Belt to the SEC. Every staff in America has a coach like Ostrom on their bench, a guy whose main job is recruiting top talent, genuflecting to the AAU dons and maintaining relationships one text message at a time."

[CE80]

Originally Posted by MNFats If it truly comes down to the two of them - Archie would have the best POV on who is more qualified. Of course - it is to his benefit to make sure that person didn't get the job so that he can bring him to IU. Crap.

No. We pull the ol switcheroo.

So if Archie says he thinks Ostrom is best for UD job (but knowing Kuwik is the better one) we take Kuwik.

But if Archie knows we know the switcheroo he may say Kuwik thinking we will take Ostom.

So we..

Crap

[Sitdowndigger]

Originally Posted by CE80 No. We pull the ol switcheroo. So if Archie says he thinks Ostrom is best for UD job (but knowing Kuwik is the better one) we take Kuwik. But if Archie knows we know the switcheroo he may say Kuwik thinking we will take Ostom. So we.. Crap

take both.....

[C-time]

I'm beginning to wonder if this board is going to make it until Sunday or even next Tuesday for a coaching announcement. I'm hoping for an announcement by Friday, but I have a feeling Sullivan is going to use the Final 4/Coaches Convention to do interviewing. Archie was announced on Sunday of Final 4 weekend when he was hired.

Are you all going to be okay if you don't get a coach by Friday?

[Medford]

Originally Posted by CE80 No. We pull the ol switcheroo. So if Archie says he thinks Ostrom is best for UD job (but knowing Kuwik is the better one) we take Kuwik. But if Archie knows we know the switcheroo he may say Kuwik thinking we will take Ostom. So we.. Crap

Do you have any iocane powder?

[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by C-time I'm beginning to wonder if this board is going to make it until Sunday or even next Tuesday for a coaching announcement. I'm hoping for an announcement by Friday, but I have a feeling Sullivan is going to use the Final 4/Coaches Convention to do interviewing. Archie was announced on Sunday of Final 4 weekend when he was hired. Are you all going to be okay if you don't get a coach by Friday?

Totally fine with me. Better to explore all options and get it right than to pull a quick trigger and regret it later. We're going to have to live with this decision for likely several years.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by C-time I'm beginning to wonder if this board is going to make it until Sunday or even next Tuesday for a coaching announcement. I'm hoping for an announcement by Friday, but I have a feeling Sullivan is going to use the Final 4/Coaches Convention to do interviewing. Archie was announced on Sunday of Final 4 weekend when he was hired. Are you all going to be okay if you don't get a coach by Friday?

You think we are waiting for Mark Few?

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by CE80 No. We pull the ol switcheroo. So if Archie says he thinks Ostrom is best for UD job (but knowing Kuwik is the better one) we take Kuwik. But if Archie knows we know the switcheroo he may say Kuwik thinking we will take Ostom. So we.. Crap

Archie might pull the double switcheroo also. I think the best thing is to not make a decision until one of Ostrom or Kuwik come in and tell us they are taking assistant job at IU. At this point, make him the Coach on the spot.

[DallasFlyer]

Per @highmajorscoop which bills itself as a College Basketball Lobbyist for 200+ Men's Hoops Programs

Emerging Name for the Dayton Basketball Job (In no order)
Anthony Grant
Internally (Kuwik or Ostrom)
John Brannen
James Whitford
John Groce

[UDGutter2]

Or, maybe we immune ourselves to iocane powder and take them both. . .
. . .wait, that would make them the poison. . .
. . .I'm confused now. Tell me when this is over.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by N2663R Did we miss on Baker Dunleavy or would UD have been over his head. Seems to have a great assistant coach resume and a solid pedigree. Just curious?

I did not realize that he is from the famous Dunleavy family...his dad was, maybe still is?, a NBA hc...his brother, Mike, played at Duke a few years ago.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer That's kind of the opposite of what perception I think is. Ostrom's calling card has been recruiting, but I have no doubt he's learned a thing or two about the Xs and Os. SI article about Ostrom that's worth a read if you haven't read it before: http://www.si.com/college-basketball...south-regional "Ostrom established himself as a player in the high-stakes world of college basketball recruiting. His journey offers a window in the high-wire existence of a college basketball coach. Ostrom has a national championship ring for a team he didn't coach, recruited a perennial NBA All-Star and has been hired, fired and demoted everywhere from the Sun Belt to the SEC. Every staff in America has a coach like Ostrom on their bench, a guy whose main job is recruiting top talent, genuflecting to the AAU dons and maintaining relationships one text message at a time."

Every assistant scouts the other teams, whether their main job is recruiting or not. It is one of the duties for assistants at every school. Ostrom may be known for his recruiting, but each assistant scouts opponents. That is SOP in basketball.

[C-time]

From Jeff Goodman ESPN: Names in mix at Dayton, per source: Assistant Tom Ostrom, John Groce, Northern KY's John Brannen, ex-Flyer and OKC assistant Anthony Grant. There may be one or two more.

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=2...298030741214-4

If that's the list just promote Ostrom and get this charade over with.

[DallasFlyer]

I think it's going to be Grant. No sources. Gut feeling. Announcement tomorrow maybe?

[TXFlyerFan]

I would think twice about Grant. If he doesn't work out, will there be reticence to let him go due his UD past? And, has he really shown that he is the right guy for the job based on his past experience? Is he a good recruiter/salesman? I don't know the answers to these things. I suspect there won't be an announcement until the Final 4, either Saturday or Monday.

[C-time]

My biggest issue with Grant is that he has been hanging out as an NBA assistant for 2 years and I fear that being out of the recruiting loop is going to cause him problems especially this year. All of the other guys have been out recruiting and will be able to fill out the roster with players they have relationships with already. Grant would be starting from below square one.

[lhsgolf19]

John Bedell‏Verified account @JBedellWHIO 37m37 minutes ago

John Bedell Retweeted Jeff Goodman

FWIW: a source told me today former Flyer Anthony Grant is a "definite candidate". @whiotv @WHIORadio

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Townie Didn't Archie get the job before X lost.

Yes...the AM to IU news broke on the morning of March 25th...X lost that night to Gonzaga.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by ud2 Yes...the AM to IU news broke on the morning of March 25th...X lost that night to Gonzaga. What are the chances that Mack was offered the IU job prior to the 25th? Seems unlikely that he was offered the job, but that is just my opinion.

His agent was most likely asked if Mack had any interest in the job by Parker Search way before that. That way Mack and IU's AD can both say that Archie was their first choice and they didn't offer the job to anybody else. This is all just a big game to try and keep everything secret.

[TXFlyerFan]

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sport...hxLI6IdMhhuSP/

[flyerfan4life]

looking pretty likely that it is going to be Grant

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life looking pretty likely that it is going to be Grant

Based on what? I haven't seen anything that would indicate one way or another.

I will say that the Pres and AD shouldn't worry about recruits, about someone with ties to UD, or anything else. Just pick the best guy for the job, everything else will fall into place.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life looking pretty likely that it is going to be Grant

What makes you say that?

Bedell just confirmed that Grant was a candidate after Goodman tweeted his list. Unless you have better "sources" than those 2 I don't see how you can come to that conclusion.

[CvilleFlyer]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan Based on what? I haven't seen anything that would indicate one way or another. I will say that the Pres and AD shouldn't worry about recruits, about someone with ties to UD, or anything else. Just pick the best guy for the job, everything else will fall into place.

I agree, six years ago Daniel Curran and Tim Wabler chose an unproven assistant coach. How did that workout!!!! We all wish Archie would have stayed longer but, hey, that's life!Now it's President Eric Spina and athletic director Neil Sullivan's turn to weigh all the attributes of the candidates whether they have UD ties as a former player, present assistant coaches or someone new. Our only choice is to wait a few more days and see how it all plays out and hope we keep all our recruits!

	Tim Wabler TIM WABLER Current Director of Athletics for the University of Dayton. Took over for Ted Kissell on Jan. 1, 2009, and brings considerable experience and leadership in athletics. Assistant AD for many years and a former standout baseball player for the Flyers, Wabler has Dayton roots and understands the unique paradigm that makes Flyer athletics and the city of Dayton a tremendous relationship.

[1903 Flyer]

Originally Posted by flyerfan4life looking pretty likely that it is going to be Grant

I've seen zero evidence to support that, but if it turns out to be true I hope he retains Ostrom as Associate HC. Not sure how well they worked together at Florida...but that's got to be worth something.

[DallasFlyer]

The confirmation that Grant is definitely a candidate coming out on an off day for the Thunder could easily be coincidence. But it does seem like if you were going to meet with him, today would have been a logical day to do it. Those things coupled with the fact that I think Grant would absolutely accept the job if offered are what lead me to think he could be announced soon. We shall see...

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan Based on what? I haven't seen anything that would indicate one way or another. I will say that the Pres and AD shouldn't worry about recruits, about someone with ties to UD, or anything else. Just pick the best guy for the job, everything else will fall into place.

Regardless of any "scoops", inside info, recruit sentiments, or any other details, the most important detail is to get the right person for the job over, roughly, the next 5 years.

We don't want this program to be worse off 5 years from now than it is right now. We'd rather have it be better off 5 years from now than it is right now. Next year figured to be a transitional year anyway, so get the best candidate for the long haul.

If it's Grant, great. Bring him back "home". If it's Ostrom, great. Keep him here. Whoever it is, just make sure he's ready to take over this program and have it be at least as good 5 years from now as it is right now. Get the right person for the job, and let's go!
Posted via Mobile Device

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by 1903 Flyer I've seen zero evidence to support that, but if it turns out to be true I hope he retains Ostrom as Associate HC. Not sure how well they worked together at Florida...but that's got to be worth something.

Had forgotten that Grant and Ostrom had worked together earlier in their careers. That could be one heckuva team, plus it could give Ostrom whatever additional time he needs to prepare him for an HC position a few years down the road, if he's not quite ready yet. Not a bad thought at all.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ud2]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan Based on what? I haven't seen anything that would indicate one way or another. I will say that the Pres and AD shouldn't worry about recruits, about someone with ties to UD, or anything else. Just pick the best guy for the job, everything else will fall into place.

Agree...all of this worrying about the recruits is overblown IMO.

Pick the best candidate, do not worry about anything else other than that.

[NCkevi]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan I will say that the Pres and AD shouldn't worry about recruits, about someone with ties to UD, or anything else. Just pick the best guy for the job, everything else will fall into place.

We lost all our recruits when Archie was hired and the world didn't end

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by NCkevi We lost all our recruits when Archie was hired and the world didn't end

World's not going to end. Of course it isn't.

However, There's a big difference coming off a very disappointing season where we finished 7-9 in the A10 and one where we're coming off a 15-3 season.

Also, losing 2 recruits had recurring repercussions, can you imagine what losing 4 or 5 will do? Think about how far we might have gone in 2014-2015 had we had those 2 recruits. We would've had 8 scholarship players instead of 6. We might have lost to Oklahoma fair and square, but I say playing 6 games in 10 days took it's toll and that's why we didn't beat them and move to the sweet 16. With those 2 other players, we might not have gotten stuck playing in a first four.

This is totally different in my opinion because the Flyers have reached a point we don't want to see slip backward. One season of transition with 6 freshman(one redshirt) was foreseen, and hopes for better with the 7 other returnees still was possible. Then things looked much brighter. We lose the majority of those recruits, not to mention we could lose others too, it sets things back 2 or 3 years at least. Maybe worse.

Back then, at least looking back, it's like we took one step back to move 4 steps forward. This would be like taking many steps back with no future payoff to do so.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 Had forgotten that Grant and Ostrom had worked together earlier in their careers. That could be one heckuva team, plus it could give Ostrom whatever additional time he needs to prepare him for an HC position a few years down the road, if he's not quite ready yet. Not a bad thought at all. Posted via Mobile Device

Okay, you ready for the Billy Donovan circle of influence theory?

So Anthony Grant has been Billy Donovan's protege for a very long time now. Those two are close. Probably no one closer to Billy besides his own family than Anthony. So I would imagine it bothers both of them that things ended on a sour note for Anthony at Alabama. Thus, I think Billy Donovan would very willingly give up his assistant (Anthony) to see him find success again as a head coach.

Tom Ostrom and Anthony would have only worked together briefly under Donovan if at all but Billy and Tom do go way, way back. So imagine Billy calls Tom and encourages him to stay on at Dayton with Grant to help keep the recruiting class intact and to carry forward the momentum Dayton has going. What Billy can offer Ostrom in return is the promise of an NBA assistant gig of some sort in the coming years.

Farfetched perhaps but you never know...

[OSU Flyer]

If Ostrom isn't the head coach, he's gone

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer If Ostrom isn't the head coach, he's gone

Your theory is much simpler. And probably true. But my theory is more fun.

[FlyerinChicago]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer Your theory is much simpler. And probably true. But my theory is more fun.

udflyernation on Instagram is saying they think it will be Anthony Grant. My hope is they
threw a buttload of cash at Ostrom to stay as an assistant head coach if this is true.
They'd make a good team. If it's just AG, I'll be worried about the next few years of
recruiting and a smooth transition in the program going forward to say the least.
Posted via Mobile Device

[dnutz77]

Originally Posted by C-time Travis Steele's wife would be okay with me! https://www.insideweddings.com/weddi...mages-gallery/

I'm not stalking, but if UD hires Travis, I recommend that the administration consider all the significant others of the bridesmaids for assistant coach positions. If no significant others, I am okay with hiring the bridesmaid(s). But again, I am NOT stalking.

[steve]

Originally Posted by NCkevi We lost all our recruits when Archie was hired and the world didn't end

It was 2 recruits, not possibly 5.

[MD Flyer Pride]

I wouldn't underestimate the value someone like Anthony Grant brings to the program with his time as an assistant in the NBA.

Every recruit has dreams of playing in the NBA. Grant can now relate to these players as a former college player, college coach and NBA coach.

That can be a big deal for many recruits. It can help with recruiting and retaining.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by dnutz77 I'm not stalking....but if...I am okay with hiring the bridesmaid(s). But again, I am NOT stalking.

Yep, sure, we gotcha...

[OSU Flyer]

The decision shouldn't be made on holding onto recruits. 5 is certainly a lot but where this program is 5 years from now is more important.

With transfers, grad transfers, JUCOs, freshman still out there and those that have reopened their recruitment from the coaching carousel along with the guys we have committed I'm not worried about getting some players if we lose some or all of the recruiting class.

The program is in a much better place with more visibility to sell recruits on than when Archie got here. There's a better nucleus of returning players than I think most folks on here realize.

McKinley Wright is a nice player and I hope we keep him but the beat goes on without him. Could be some nice transfers out there, a freshman or a JUCO.

[OSU Flyer]

Interesting to note former BG assistant Billy Schmidt is on as a quality control coach with Anthony Grant.

[jumpin' joe]

The only thing holding me back from supporting Anthony Grant is that he turned the ball over with the score tied 49-49 in the 1985 NCAA tournament game against Villanova. The Wildcats won 51-49. Still holding a grudge 32 years later...

[flyerfan4life]

Originally Posted by C-time What makes you say that? Bedell just confirmed that Grant was a candidate after Goodman tweeted his list. Unless you have better "sources" than those 2 I don't see how you can come to that conclusion.

Just my best educated guess from all i have read. Nothing more.

[Widget]

I just hope the decision has been made before April Fool's day..............

[ud2]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer The decision shouldn't be made on holding onto recruits. 5 is certainly a lot but where this program is 5 years from now is more important. With transfers, grad transfers, JUCOs, freshman still out there and those that have reopened their recruitment from the coaching carousel along with the guys we have committed I'm not worried about getting some players if we lose some or all of the recruiting class. The program is in a much better place with more visibility to sell recruits on than when Archie got here. There's a better nucleus of returning players than I think most folks on here realize. McKinley Wright is a nice player and I hope we keep him but the beat goes on without him. Could be some nice transfers out there, a freshman or a JUCO.

Totally agree...we will be fine even if we lose all 5.

[jerseyflyer09]

Originally Posted by FlyerinChicago udflyernation on Instagram is saying they think it will be Anthony Grant. My hope is they threw a buttload of cash at Ostrom to stay as an assistant head coach if this is true. They'd make a good team. If it's just AG, I'll be worried about the next few years of recruiting and a smooth transition in the program going forward to say the least. Posted via Mobile Device

UDFlyerNation? You mean the account that claims to represent us even though it's some guy? A guy who picks fights with other fanbases and generally embarrasses us? And a guy who claimed to know for certain Archie wasn't going anywhere because he had many private conversations with the man's wife?

Ok, I hope this line of bs for him is correct because I really want it to be Grant...but him saying it makes me worried that it's not true.

[Alberto Strasse]

Would you prefer a coach from the Miller tree or the Donoher tree? I say "In Archie We Trust".

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by CE80 No. We pull the ol switcheroo. So if Archie says he thinks Ostrom is best for UD job (but knowing Kuwik is the better one) we take Kuwik. But if Archie knows we know the switcheroo he may say Kuwik thinking we will take Ostom. So we.. Crap

But if we know that Archie knows that we know, then what happens if Archie knows that we know that he knows that we know that..

What were we talking about, again?
Posted via Mobile Device

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse Would you prefer a coach from the Miller tree or the Donoher tree? I say "In Archie We Trust".

I think Grant would be considered under the Billy Donovan tree, but that's just me.

[DaytonDecibelDungeon]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 But if we know that Archie knows that we know, then what happens if Archie knows that we know that he knows that we know that.. What were we talking about, again? Posted via Mobile Device

[Whacker]

Stylistically, Grant seemed an awful lot like BG. Big, physical, athletic teams that guarded like crazy and their best offensive set was throw it at the rim and go get an offensive rebound.

Grant's offense looked a little better at VCU with Maynor, but was still very slow and ISO heavy. His teams at Bama couldn't shoot worth a dang because he seemed to recruit lots of physically gifted athletes with minimal basketball skill or savvy.

With Grant you're most likely getting top 50 defense and top 150 offense. If that's still his identity I'd expect cyclical tournament bids based on strong upper class every 3-4 years and a baseline of 19 wins or so. You have to either develop the skills of those superlative athletes or recruit skilled players along with them.

Butler started making deep tourney runs when Stevens started getting NBA-caliber talent, but they were always competitive in the first round or two in the post-season without it.

I think Sullivan has a very clear understanding of what the strengths and limitations are at UD. Dayton has a lot of competitive advantages, but the coach we want understands how to leverage those and reduce or eliminate the limitations.

For instance, getting high-level recruits is always going to be a challenge. Non-conference scheduling coupled with conference strength is a challenge. There no single right answer, but Neil is looking for the candidate who has the best chance of success given Dayton's profile.

If BG would have landed just one or two of the high profile recruits he was on early, his teams probably would have won another 2-3 games in conference and would have made more NCAAs. If the candidate thinks they can recruit Dayton into the post-season they better be one of the best out there.

In the A10, defense matters. A lot. If you can't guard in the A10 you're making it that much tougher to compete. That's a major positive for Grant. But we learned with BG, that an offensive system that requires superior talent to be successful is not going to sustain the needed success. That's a major negative for Grant. Grant seems like a solid hire that is low-risk, low-reward. I'd place the level of expectations somewhere north of BG, but well south of Archie. If Grant gets hired I'd say it was because the other candidates were under-whelming or he has a very clear vision of what he needs to change to be successful at Dayton.

Hiring a current assistant is higher risk, higher reward. You would hope that all of the current assistants have internalized Archie's player development program. That is the great equalizer as Xavier showed for many years under Sean. They had upperclassmen ready to replace the graduating seniors every season. The learning curve is certainly going to be steeper for anyone learning on the job, as it was for Archie. One of the benefits though, is every coach on his staff watched him go through those early struggles. You would hope they would learn from that and not repeat some of the same mistakes.

So as much as we try to speculate who would be a good fit or who would not, how these candidates interview based on what Neil is looking for is all that matters. I hope Sullivan is able to find the candidate that satisfies his criteria, because he is in a unique position to understand what it really takes to succeed. My worry is that none of the candidates check enough boxes and he ends up hiring other than ideal candidate rather than continue the search.

Make no mistake, this is a HUGE hire. Is Dayton a program that can sustain NCAA success or did they make one great hire? That's the question Neil Sulivan is about to answer.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 Totally agree...we will be fine even if we lose all 5.

If you like life on the NIT bubble.

[steve]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer If you like life on the NIT bubble.

But on the bright side we'd be firmly in the CBA....

[CE80]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer If you like life on the NIT bubble.

...in 3 years.

[SeasonTicketFan]

Kendall and Kyle might have qualified as top 50 defenders and top 150 or worse offensive players. No doubt, Archie improved their offensive skills. They were never great, but they got the job done.

If AG is hired, could he retain the skill development program used by Archie? That program proved to improve the offensive skills of several players. Merge athletic defensive players with offensive skill improvement could provide a winner.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by FlyerinChicago udflyernation on Instagram is saying they think it will be Anthony Grant. My hope is they threw a buttload of cash at Ostrom to stay as an assistant head coach if this is true. They'd make a good team. If it's just AG, I'll be worried about the next few years of recruiting and a smooth transition in the program going forward to say the least. Posted via Mobile Device

Originally Posted by jerseyflyer09 UDFlyerNation? You mean the account that claims to represent us even though it's some guy? A guy who picks fights with other fanbases and generally embarrasses us? And a guy who claimed to know for certain Archie wasn't going anywhere because he had many private conversations with the man's wife?

UDFlyernation is the worst account out there. Swore up and down last week that Archie was never leaving for the reasons you mentioned above. That guy is not to be believed and it's pretty easy to figure out who he really is if you want to. He went on a block party last week and made the accounts private because he couldn't handle people calling out his BS. He knows nothing more than anyone else.

[BeckysTXA]

I would get excited with an AG-TO staff. Ostrom promoted to Associate HC with a big raise. I also think 2 years of NBA coaching experience will have provided AG a better point of reference on speed of offense and other offensive benefits. AG was the top recruiter at FL and teamed with Ostrom could be powerful. Continuity in the program would be maintained. NBA contacts is very attractive to recruits. And AG gives us a chance to retain a coach long term, which would be great for this program. I don't think "firing" would be a problem, if necessary. I don't think you make a hiring decision based on "if he doesn't work out." Sullivan is a professional. Everyone he is looking at might not work out. If you're worried about a negative outcome, you got the wrong guy. For any candidate, you handle it professionally if you have to cross that bridge down the road. AG also gives us a chance to retain one or two other assistants and I like that.

[jerseyflyer09]

Originally Posted by C-time UDFlyernation is the worst account out there. Swore up and down last week that Archie was never leaving for the reasons you mentioned above. That guy is not to be believed and it's pretty easy to figure out who he really is if you want to. He went on a block party last week and made the accounts private because he couldn't handle people calling out his BS. He knows nothing more than anyone else.

Yeah. That's it's own issue. However, the fact that he calls himself flyernation and has a profile pic of our school logo makes the inappropriate assertion that he represents us in some way. It's maddening.

[Avid Flyer]

Is history about to repeat itself, not once but twice.

JOB came from the NBA with no HS pipeline and we know how that turned out. AG would be coming from the NBA absent two years from HS recruiting and a perceived lost HS pipeline. At least AG did have two previous HC experiences, but would it be a repeat.

OP after nine years was negotiating for the Clemson job while Dayton was trying to prepare for Tulsa in the first round of the NCAA, which we lost. Am sees his dream job open up while Dayton is preparing for Wichita State in the first round game of the NCAA, which we lost. Did these distractions cause the HC's to lose focus on the job at hand and work behind scenes for the job's they sought and eventually got.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer JOB came from the NBA with no HS pipeline and we know how that turned out. AG would be coming from the NBA absent two years from HS recruiting and a perceived lost HS pipeline. At least AG did have two previous HC experiences, but would it be a repeat.

This is my largest fear with Anthony Grant. The lack of current recruiting connections is not good. I also don't think watching Russell Westbrook play 1 on 5 the last 2 years has improved his traditionally iso heavy offensive philosophy.

[Buckleyma]

[QUOTE=Smitty10;498916]Maybe there was a reason Johnny Davis came back to Dayton for the first time in 40 years?

I realize he's 61 but he could still give us a good 5-8 years no?

Smitty: i concur with Johnny Davis, Mister Excitement, getting a look. With his NBA contacts, recruits might sign. That was always the knock on Archie Miller recruitment. That was a limitation of Archie. Clearly, Archie made up for this limitation. We saw how SMU recruiting benefitted from NBA contacts and being able to promise that we can get you ready for the NBA. I am referring to Larry Brown.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SeasonTicketFan]

[QUOTE=Buckleyma;500429]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Maybe there was a reason Johnny Davis came back to Dayton for the first time in 40 years? I realize he's 61 but he could still give us a good 5-8 years no? Smitty: i concur with Johnny Davis, Mister Excitement, getting a look. With his NBA contacts, recruits might sign. That was always the knock on Archie Miller recruitment. That was a limitation of Archie. Clearly, Archie made up for this limitation. We saw how SMU recruiting benefitted from NBA contacts and being able to promise that we can get you ready for the NBA. I am referring to Larry Brown. Posted via Mobile Device

Don't get your hopes up for Johnny. I met with him when he was in Dayton. He does not have an interest in the coaching anymore. He is ready to retire and enjoying playing golf.

While Johnny was ahead coach in the NBA, he was never a college coach, which would mean recruiting would be new to him.

[m21eagle45]

[QUOTE=Buckleyma;500429]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Maybe there was a reason Johnny Davis came back to Dayton for the first time in 40 years? I realize he's 61 but he could still give us a good 5-8 years no? Smitty: i concur with Johnny Davis, Mister Excitement, getting a look. With his NBA contacts, recruits might sign. That was always the knock on Archie Miller recruitment. That was a limitation of Archie. Clearly, Archie made up for this limitation. We saw how SMU recruiting benefitted from NBA contacts and being able to promise that we can get you ready for the NBA. I am referring to Larry Brown. Posted via Mobile Device

Larry Brown>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Johnny Davis. I get that he was a Dayton great, but he is not really a known name anymore. His career record as a HC is 73-146.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Is history about to repeat itself, not once but twice. JOB came from the NBA with no HS pipeline and we know how that turned out. AG would be coming from the NBA absent two years from HS recruiting and a perceived lost HS pipeline. At least AG did have two previous HC experiences, but would it be a repeat. OP after nine years was negotiating for the Clemson job while Dayton was trying to prepare for Tulsa in the first round of the NCAA, which we lost. Am sees his dream job open up while Dayton is preparing for Wichita State in the first round game of the NCAA, which we lost. Did these distractions cause the HC's to lose focus on the job at hand and work behind scenes for the job's they sought and eventually got.

Originally Posted by C-time This is my largest fear with Anthony Grant. The lack of current recruiting connections is not good. I also don't think watching Russell Westbrook play 1 on 5 the last 2 years has improved his traditionally iso heavy offensive philosophy.

You guys are acting like AG has been out of college coaching for many years. Being gone 2 years isn't really that big of a deal. Many HS and AAU coaches are still at the schools or teams they were with 2 years ago. Some names have changed, but not enough to be a horrible detriment. Hire an assistant with strong recruiting ties and things would be fine.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by C-time The lack of current recruiting connections is not good.

His network is massive. Not an immediate pipeline of kids he has been directly communicating with, but he's not exactly starting from scratch. An Ohio guy to get him plugged in more to Ohio would be wise to add to staff, but Grant's recruiting base stretches far.

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 You guys are acting like AG has been out of college coaching for many years. Being gone 2 years isn't really that big of a deal. Many HS and AAU coaches are still at the schools or teams they were with 2 years ago. Some names have changed, but not enough to be a horrible detriment. Hire an assistant with strong recruiting ties and things would be fine.

BINGO!

Originally Posted by Buckleyma We saw how SMU recruiting benefitted from NBA contacts and being able to promise that we can get you ready for the NBA. I am referring to Larry Brown. Posted via Mobile Device

Larry Brown is a legend. His name got him in the door. Anthony Grant is not a legend. His name alone won't get him the door. But he is a good looking dude. I'm comfortable saying that. A lot of moms should let him in.

Originally Posted by C-time I also don't think watching Russell Westbrook play 1 on 5 the last 2 years has improved his traditionally iso heavy offensive philosophy.

Grant's just going to call for ISO Crosby every time! Darn you Russell Westbrook!

Seriously though, Grant is going to run things the way he ran them at VCU and Alabama. He'll use some NBA lingo here and there I'm sure and illustrate some things with NBA anecdotes, and kids will eat that stuff up. But I doubt very much that a couple years as an NBA assistant is going to philosophically change his way of doing things.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer His network is massive. Not an immediate pipeline of kids he has been directly communicating with, but he's not exactly starting from scratch. An Ohio guy to get him plugged in more to Ohio would be wise to add to staff, but Grant's recruiting base stretches far. BINGO! Larry Brown is a legend. His name got him in the door. Anthony Grant is not a legend. His name alone won't get him the door. But he is a good looking dude. I'm comfortable saying that. A lot of moms should let him in. Grant's just going to call for ISO Crosby every time! Darn you Russell Westbrook! Seriously though, Grant is going to run things the way he ran them at VCU and Alabama. He'll use some NBA lingo here and there I'm sure and illustrate some things with NBA anecdotes, and kids will eat that stuff up. But I doubt very much that a couple years as an NBA assistant is going to philosophically change his way of doing things.

Please don't attribute quotes to me that I didn't make. Thank you.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Please don't attribute quotes to me that I didn't make. Thank you.

Fixed it. There's some broken code above that tripped me up when I went to multi-quote. Sorry!

[C-time]

Grant may be just fine, but my fear and impression is that a lot of people want to hire him because he is a UD alum and they think he will stay at UD forever.

It's like you all just got dumped by your Ole Miss 8 girlfriend and decided you don't want to risk getting you're heart broken again so you settle for a nice and safe Dayton 6 who you don't think will ever leave you.

[shwag33]

Originally Posted by C-time Grant may be just fine, but my fear and impression is that a lot of people want to hire him because he is a UD alum and they think he will stay at UD forever. It's like you all just got dumped by your Ole Miss 8 girlfriend and decided you don't want to risk getting you're heart broken again so you settle for a nice and safe Dayton 6 who you don't think will ever leave you.

But if all your other choices are 6's as well.....