You don't get it.

tman · #1 07-13-2008, 01:20 PM

Too much is being made about quality teams not playing Dayton. That is not the case. The reality is quality teams will not deal with Ted K. It isn't Dayton. its Ted K.

Ted K , not UD, cannot get a contract with quality programs. Last year, much was made of the fact that Pitt was the first top 20 team non/conference to play at UD in 18 years---that is pathetic. It also is the same amont of time Ted K has been responsible for scheduling. How pathetic is it that many of you are begging for ONE quality home game each year. ANd now we hope for a single quality home game every two years.

Once every 18 years is not good enough. And its not just the home schedule----Play someone--if you can't get a game---don't just call it quits----go somewhere, play someone. If not you are throwing in the towel.

How can anyone say that teams like Dayton can't get quality opponents---Wrong ---look around. Teams are finding ways.

Michingan State on their way to a national championship wanted to play at UD arena. After a 15 min talk on the phone with Teddy K--the Mich St. AD said FORGET IT---and they ended up playing at WSU. Its not UD can't get a quality game, its TED KISSELL that cannot get a contract.

If Ted K was let go tomorrow he would never get another AD job in his life . He would be selling insurance by the end of the month. Never has this guy been considered for a higher profile job. Never mentioned about moving as AD somewhere else. He is an outsider looking in. He's never been interviewed for a higher profile job--never.

Wright State announces today in the DDN that is has reached an agreement to play this year against Wake Forest in a nationel televised game. WSU responded to an email and now they are on national TV. WAKE UP!!!!

We are not getting the job done.
Its not the coach.
Its not the players.
Its not the support.
Its not the money.
Its not the Arena.
Its not the fans.

ITS THE AD.
The finest Coach in the land (Memphis) was quoted as saying coaches win games Administrations win championships---oh so right.

The NCAA has made it clear---
who you beat
who you lost to
and where did you play.

Ted has put this years team behind the eight ball---this schedule prohibits Dayton any real chance to play in the NCAA--the year is over before it began. Come March, regardless of record, we will hear---Dayton didn't play anyone.

Dayton can now state that it officially has the worst Schedule in the a-10.
Ted K is hurting this program.
That is not the roll of an AD.

Name Jim Paxson AD now.

He has the tools, he knows the job, he has great connections, he can bring back the students and he can get the U a schedule it and its fans deserves.

He's not the only option. There are so many fine AD's getting it done with far less that what UD can offer.

Who did you beat?
Who did you lose too?
Where did you play?

The NCAA has stated over and over the road to the dance.
It looks like the AD decided to sit this one out. Or perhaps , and I think this is the case--its the best he could do.

Chris R · #2 07-13-2008, 01:46 PM

Ted was perhaps Colorado States top choice for their new AD. He took himself out of the running voluntarily. My assumption is since the only thing you post are facts, you simply forget this one by accident and it slipped your mind.

What experience does Jim Paxson have at running anything at the collegiate level. None that I know of. Running the Cavs doesnt necessarily impress me and neither should it anyone else as it relates to operating a collegiate athletic department.

Just because you once ran JC Penney doesnt mean you have any idea how to run JVC. Two entirely different animals and contexts.

I remember a guy once who was the right hand man to the most brilliant basketball mind in the game and had an assistant coaching seat at the most fabled sports facility in the world. His name was Jim OBrien. Sometimes what seems like a qualification is anything but.

Perhaps the real question is, since you have all the answers, why arent you working in intercollegiate athletics. It would seem like a natural fit for you.

Avid Flyer · #3 07-13-2008, 01:53 PM

I think its time tman be outed. Since he has such hatred for TK and continually attacks his character while hiding behind a moniker he should out himself so that we can then attach some legitimacy to his posts because his ranting behind a moniker with false facts isn't cutting it.

If you feel so strongly about TK etc the come clean and tell us who you really are. then we might understand you, your position and possibly give some crredence to your post. Till then you just come across as another looney tune who has access to the internet. And while you are at it, why not google your info and you might find an error or two.

BTW please explain to us just how you know this about the Micigan State Ad.

Come on tman, time to be a man and man up to who you are.

UACFlyer · #4 07-13-2008, 02:25 PM

UD's amazing attendance at home is a huge plus;....but, possibly a minus when it comes to scheduling. Understandably, UD is reluctant to give up home game revenue. But, we also want to make the Dance in the worst way. TK has said that he is willing to play a game on the road without a return game if there is national TV coverage, i.e., exceptional publicity for the program. The Duke and UNC games of recent years fall into that category.

But, perhaps that standard should/could be relaxed just a bit. Perhaps we should be willing to play one game a year on the road against a top opponent whether or not the game is nationally televised. For example, were UD to play UConn in CT in a game that was not on national TV, the game would be regionally televised in an area with a large population density and substantial media coverage. There are other opponents having similarly high profiles. Such a game might not result in"exceptional" PR;....just "good" PR.

St. Bona played at UConn a few times over the last decade, on at least one occasion giving the Huskies a sound thrashing. No way on earth will UC play at St. Bonaventure.

Would a UD game in CT count as a play-for-pay game and violate some new A10 scheduling guideline? I don't know. But, a Dayton is certainly not "lowering" itself or its standards by playing a game on the road against a UConn, a Memphis, an Indiana, an LSU etc. Indeed, such top programs get extraordinary media coverage in their regions.

Another idea is the two-for-one deal. I've got to believe that there are some top programs that will not play UD home-and-home, but that would agree to a two-for-one deal.

Whatever, UD owes the Faithful an attractive, entertaining OOC home schedule featuring at least three look-forward-to games. I'll even count Miami as one of those games. It's up to TK to figure out a way to make that happen. Don't tell me it's impossible.

FlyerYouBetcha · #5 07-13-2008, 03:10 PM

Yet again, tman has made some good points but has gone way over the top using one of his patented ad hominem attacks. If he would just stick to the issues, and not go for a person's jugular in such a ruthless way, I think he could become a valuable asset to udpride.

In other words, Tman is a paradox.

NCkevi · #6 07-13-2008, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer

Come on tman, time to be a man and man up to who you are.

In another thread (http://www.udpride.com/forums/showth...2317#post62317)

Originally Posted by tman

I'm through.
THis is no longer a message board---its a blog set for five or six posters.
See ya next year. Maybe

do you really expect someone to man up who makes this big production of leaving but in less then three months posts about a dozen times??
tman probably had this rant written since January just deciding when he could post it

nbflyer · #7 07-13-2008, 04:46 PM

Through his rant, tman does bring up some valid points.

A nationally televised game at Wake Forest would probabally change a few minds on the quality of our schedule. Props to Wright State for getting that game on the their schedule. Obviously, I don't think any of us have a clue what goes on behind the scenes and what offers presented themselves, but you would think that a similar arrangement could have been made with UD and another BCS team.

THirt · #8 07-13-2008, 04:53 PM

I'm sorry for even reading this thread, much less contributing. *sigh*

tman is the one who does not get it.

For better or worse, UD has decided that the current scheduling model is the way to go - more home games, winnable road games, and if a good opportunity comes to get a contract with a BCS school, we take it.

(In my opinion, no matter what level they are on, schools in the big 6 conferences all count as BCS schools, and I could care less what FCS or other abbreviationg is used. Villanova, Auburn, Northwestern, whoever... if you're in a BCS conference for football, the rules apply for basketball as well.)

I'm not going to say that every decision Kissell has made is the right one, but I think if you look at where UD basketball was 15 years ago, and where it is now, there is no doubt that we are in a better position. None. Zero. I will fight you if you argue otherwise.

If you want to argue that we are not in a better position than we were say, 6-7 years ago, I would be happy to hear your arguments.

What I'm not happy to hear are blanket statements that target one individual, and are full of logical fallacies, poor arguments, no basis in fact, and so-called 'solutions' that are EVEN WORSE than the complaint. Why in the world would ANYONE want to stop being an NBA GM in order to become an AD at an A-10 school? I know Paxson is from Dayton and went to UD, but let's be real for a moment here, shall we? Seriously.

I recall reading in past offseasons that UD had to focus on the A-10 schedule and winning there. Now I read from the same poster that the non-con is sooo super-important that when it's not to his liking, it is evidence that the AD should be sacked. Not surprising, I guess, just change the argument when it fits your liking.

I don't think the schedule is great either, but I also think for a team that just lost one of the top-5 or top-10 all time players, it makes some sense to have an easier schedule early on.

In addition, last year leading into this year was/is almost a perfect storm working against UD's favor.

On one hand, we beat the BCS teams that we faced, kicked the snot out of Pitt in perhaps my favorite UD game of all time, and ended up #14 when healthy. With that scenario, we can start to get in the door where we could not go previously. "Oh, you're an A-10 school, but top-25, with big wins? Yeah, we could play you home and home, but you're coming here first."

On the other hand, we limped to the finish, couldn't beat eggsavier three times, couldn't beat LaSalle, GW, Richmond on the road, or Duquesne at home. We were thisclose to losing in the first round of the A-10 tournament. That is not getting it done, and that's what's more fresh in other schools' minds. "Oh, your last NCAA win was 1990? You were lucky to finish .500 in a so-so conference? Yeah, sure, we'll play you at our place, on the date of our choosing, and no, there's no TV."

Now you can argue that we beat Temple and St. Joe's at less than full strength. You can argue that had St. Joe's beaten Temple, or had Kentucky beaten Georgia, or had eggsavier just won the A-10 tournament, or had St. Joe not beaten eggsavier a week or so before the A-10 tournament, or had Gonzaga won their conference tournament, etc. etc., we'd have made the NCAA's. Maybe Wright would have played. Maybe we'd have pulled off an 11-6 upset, maybe made some noise...

But of course none of that happened. We didn't win the games we could/should have, we didn't get much help from the selection committee or other bubble teams, and we haven't won an NCAA game since a lot of current players were born.

So we're pretty close to being able to ask for home-and-homes. We're good enough that teams don't want to play us, but not good enough that it won't seem bad if they lose to us. Our athletic department has decided we need the revenue from additional home games, and that's the end of discussion.

It's not just one guy's decision.

If and when UD wins a game in the NCAA tournament, all sorts of doors will start to open.

But let's try to at least be somewhat realistic here.

Dirty Sanchez · #9 07-13-2008, 04:57 PM

I agree tman brings up very relevant and valid points. He does go over the top a little, but I don't have a problem with him posting if that is his opinion.

Why does he have to "man up" and tell us who he is? What does that matter? Fine, he might be a guy named Frank Rizzo who sells auto parts in Beavercreek. I don't see any relevance of having to know who he is.

lilrudy4787 · #10 07-13-2008, 04:59 PM

i havent seen a rant like this since John Chaney left Temple...bravo

there are valid points, and there may be extenuating circumstances that arent told. But the fact is most big major schools are scared now to come into places like Dayton and Xavier.

Binnie Bombs 33 · #11 07-13-2008, 06:01 PM

TMan is right ... it is time to move on from the mediocrtiy that Kissell displays.

1 game in 18 yrs is not good enough, you people are fooling yourselves if you think this guy is good for our basketball program.

It is sad and disheartening that really the only thing he focuses his time on is UD Men's Basketball and he puts together a schedule like this and then tries to defend it ... and uses excuses. So for the last 20 yrs. UD has never been good enough to get a top 10 team to the arena (other than Pitt)? Is someone really going to tell me that is what a good AD does?

WSU is playing Wake Forest on Espn ... UD will have 0 Espn games unless they pick up teh X game and there is no guarantee the game will even be at UD Arena. It is time for UD and this Chump to part ways ... it is time to just stop giving people jobs up-top that don't deserve them ... there is too much fluff at UD as a whole and tons of people who do nothing and get paid.

I love UD arena ... but nothing changes. The City of Dayton never changes ... people want to change the entrance music and there is an up-roar beyond life, people always leave early ... it never changes. The parking situation never changes, it is like UD basketball lives in the 1970's, the band never changes ... imagine how boring UD arena will be this season in the non-conference schedule!

Get me an AD, a freaking young guy that will not sleep until he does it the right way ... 20 yrs of Kissell is enough ... move the HELL ON ... someone who will shake it up and get us back to the promise land. Last year's schedule gave me hope he might change ... but then he steps back 5 steps.

We need change ...

NCkevi · #12 07-13-2008, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Binnie Bombs 33

1 game in 18 yrs is not good enough, you people are fooling yourselves if you think this guy is good for our basketball program.

What 'one game' are you talking about?

NCkevi · #13 07-13-2008, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Dirty Sanchez

I agree tman brings up very relevant and valid points. He does go over the top a little, but I don't have a problem with him posting if that is his opinion.

Why does he have to "man up" and tell us who he is? What does that matter? Fine, he might be a guy named Frank Rizzo who sells auto parts in Beavercreek. I don't see any relevance of having to know who he is.

Originally Posted by tman

Michingan State on their way to a national championship wanted to play at UD arena. After a 15 min talk on the phone with Teddy K--the Mich St. AD said FORGET IT---and they ended up playing at WSU. Its not UD can't get a quality game, its TED KISSELL that cannot get a contract.

THis is tman presenting opinion as fact - big difference then just giving an opinion - he has made it clear that what he has against TK is personal.
If you're going to post something like this and claim it's a fact, then provide a source or keep your personal attacks off of here

Chris R · #14 07-13-2008, 07:15 PM

I assume everyone realizes over the last two seasons, Dayton's non-conference SOS has been ranked in the Top-30.

As I posted in Pride Plus, this years non-con SOS calculates to #150-170 based on 07-08 numbers. Why that course was determined who knows, but it doesnt negate the fact that UDs last two non-con SOSs were among the most carefully-crafted and successful RPI boosters in the nation.

Id like to see a few more WAC/MVC/MWC home/homes on the schedule myself. UNLV, BYU, Utah, Nevada, New Mexico State, SIU, etc. But its probably easier said than done. I liken it to two people who love steak. Yet they cant agree on which steakhouse and day of the week to go.

I think if you look at Creighton -- a program with more postseason posture than Dayton over the last 10-11 years, you wont find their home schedule littered with any more goliaths than ours. And their fan base is larger and probably more deserving.

The fact is, UD has had plenty of schedules favorable enough over the years to get the job done and make some postseason noise. We simply havent done it. You can talk schedule all you want, but it ultimately comes down to hitting the skids every February 1 and never recovering.

You know you have bigger issues other than schedule when the only talk at A10 tourney time is who you want to avoid rather than why everyone wants to avoid you.

AdamtheFlyer · #15 07-13-2008, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Chris R

You know you have bigger issues other than schedule when the only talk at A10 tourney time is who you want to avoid rather than why everyone wants to avoid you.

This is the smartest thing I've read on this board in a long, long time. Worrying about postential at-larges at this point is a big problem of the fan base. As far as I'm concerned building a team that can win the A10 title is what I care about, first and foremost.

It's funny. Ticket holders want bigger names in the Arena. It's a shame that more big name teams aren't on the docket. Kissell is at fault. Yet if and when we get those games and lose it's unacceptable and Kissell is to blame. Get one and win but still miss the dance, Kissell is to blame. I bet Kissell won't get credit if we hammer the cupcakes and end up making the dance this year.

I'm glad I don't have Kissell's job.

Fudd · #16 07-13-2008, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Chris R

I assume everyone realizes over the last two seasons, Dayton's non-conference SOS has been ranked in the Top-30.

As I posted in Pride Plus, this years non-con SOS calculates to #150-170 based on 07-08 numbers. Why that course was determined who knows, but it doesnt negate the fact that UDs last two non-con SOSs were among the most carefully-crafted and successful RPI boosters in the nation.

Id like to see a few more WAC/MVC/MWC home/homes on the schedule myself. UNLV, BYU, Utah, Nevada, New Mexico State, SIU, etc. But its probably easier said than done. I liken it to two people who love steak. Yet they cant agree on which steakhouse and day of the week to go.

I think if you look at Creighton -- a program with more postseason posture than Dayton over the last 10-11 years, you wont find their home schedule littered with any more goliaths than ours. And their fan base is larger and probably more deserving.

The fact is, UD has had plenty of schedules favorable enough over the years to get the job done and make some postseason noise. We simply havent done it. You can talk schedule all you want, but it ultimately comes down to hitting the skids every February 1 and never recovering.

You know you have bigger issues other than schedule when the only talk at A10 tourney time is who you want to avoid rather than why everyone wants to avoid you.

That is one heck of a post. I would like a schedule like the last few years, but it's gotta be hard to do that every year with our current place in div 1 basketball. If our team is good enough, they will get in a tournament.

Big D · #17 07-13-2008, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Binnie Bombs 33

WSU is playing Wake Forest on Espn ... UD will have 0 Espn games unless they pick up teh X game and there is no guarantee the game will even be at UD Arena. It is time for UD and this Chump to part ways ... it is time to just stop giving people jobs up-top that don't deserve them ... there is too much fluff at UD as a whole and tons of people who do nothing and get paid.

The WSU/Wake Forest game is on Foxsports, not ESPN.

THirt · #18 07-13-2008, 08:35 PM

Binnie Bombs:

Please help me out here. Give me some specific things that you think could/should/would be done differently.

Do you really think Ted Kissell isn't trying? Really? I mean, do you seriously think that?

I'm not THAT old (32) but I can tell you for sure that UD is better off than they were 10 years ago, certainly better than they were 15 years ago.

How would you propose that we get a top 10 team in here? Why would Duke, UNC, Kansas, Texas, UConn, Georgetown, Florida, Kentucky, UCLA, Memphis, Stanford or Tennessee come to UD Arena? Seriously, why? How would they justify that to their fan base?

I think it's easy to make some broad generalizations that "this guy sucks" "our schedule sucks" but it's not so easy to come up with actual solutions. Seriously. Explain to me why a home and home with Texas makes sense for them.

Binnie Bombs 33 · #19 07-13-2008, 09:41 PM

I have given many options in other posts I don't want to keep saying the same ****.

I am not saying we should get a home and home with a top 10 team every year, I am not an idiot. But I would like to see one walk through the doors before 2025 ... but then again everyone thinks he is great so who cares!

We need young blood in the upper levels of UD Basketball ... change some stuff up, the appearance of the team, the scheduling ... so forth ... it hasn't been working and UD Basketball just seems to be stagnant.

We need an inovator up top ... not a guy who gives excuses because he cant seal the deal.

xubrew · #20 07-13-2008, 09:43 PM

wasn't marquette in the top ten when you guys beat them in the 2002-2003 season??

didn't cincinnati have some top twenty teams when they came to ud??

it has to have been more than one team in twenty years.

NCkevi · #21 07-13-2008, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by xubrew

wasn't marquette in the top ten when you guys beat them in the 2002-2003 season??

didn't cincinnati have some top twenty teams when they came to ud??

it has to have been more than one team in twenty years.

It's not fair to throw facts around!!

UACFlyer · #22 07-13-2008, 10:12 PM

Chris' post re the schedule is, as always, thoughtful and reasonable. And, as Chris' remarks suggest, if we started one more series with an interesting opponent in addition to Creighton we would not be having this discussion/debate.

An entirely legitimate question is, "why didn't we"?

Quoting from TK's "New Realities 2007": "These new realities have brought our traditional non-conference scheduling model into question. We will consider playing fewer "one-way" (home) games and more series games. The series games need to be against the perennially successful teams from "multiple-bid leagues" as mentioned earlier. That could mean one less home game; but it would also mean bringing in another strong team...probably a non-BCS opponent from a nationally recognized conference....like Creighton from the Missouri Valley".

When that statement was written the `07-`08 OOC schedule was already in place. It included 9 home games with three new series started, Toledo, Akron and George Mason. The first year one might have expected the words of "New Realities" to become action was this year, i.e., the OOC '08-'09 schedule. But, rather than one fewer home game we have one more;... rather than seeing the start of two or three series against opponents from "strong non-BCS" conferences we see the start of a single new series, Creighton.

Or is the Marshall game the start of a series with another MAC opponent? How can we know by reading the Athletic Department's description of the schedule? When the OOC schedule is released each year a very important piece of infomation is which opponents are new series opponents. Indeed, when last year's schedule was announced as I recall one had to guess whether or not the Akron and Toledo games were home-and-home.

I agree entirely with those that say our performance in the A10 will determine our post season fate. But, in my opinion, the `08-'09 OOC schedule is not consistent with the carefully crafted strategy outlined in "New Realities 2007", nor is the description of the schedule adequately informative if, for example, Marshall or some other opponent is a new series opponent.

UD's OOC schedule is not easy, with some tough road games. But, TK, of whom I have nothing but the highest regard and respect, is making a mistake if he thinks that the Faithful did not understand the strategy he so carefully justified and explained in "New Realities". The `08-`09 OOC schedule is not consistent with that strategy.

TD Flyer · #23 07-13-2008, 10:48 PM

I have the highest regard for TK. I can’t say I know him well, but we have met and exchanged correspondence a few years ago. He seemed very knowledgeable and competent. I do have concerns however about the direction of our program and our understanding on how we are perceived by other schools.

Two or three years ago, we announced that it was our intention to schedule six home and home games annually, all with the teams in the big six conferences. Miami didn’t qualify so they were dropped. Now then an explanation should be given why we thought we could get six big home and home games, when in reality now we can get none. Yeah beating Pitt was a factor, but I think this is being overplayed. I don’t have high expectations that we can consistently get any of the top twenty to visit the arena, but that leaves forty some other teams that we should pursue.

UACFlyer · #24 07-13-2008, 11:05 PM

TD, with all due respect, I would like to see evidence of a statement (or even a suggestion)to the effect that it was UD's intent to schedule "six home-and-home games annually, all with teams in the big six conferences".

Chris R · #25 07-13-2008, 11:21 PM

I seem to recall a conversation I had with someone close to UD's scheduling once (or maybe it was a pre-game Chalk Talk), where they placed an emphasis on getting the non-con schedule to collectively average 20 wins by season end. By doing this, the "RPI game" kicks in and really gives you a boost, especially if they are programs you have a decent shot to beat (and mostly at home). usually good teams from low and mid major programs to take a lathering until New Years when they roll through their own conference.

Last year we played 16 games out of conference. They had a record of 304-224 or a .575% winning percentage or exactly 19 wins on average for each team.

This year (based on last years numbers which admittedly are not a perfect indicator), there are 15 non-con games and last year those teams combined for a 237-243 overall record or .493% winning percentage or 15.8 wins per team on average.

Its hard to say if these teams will be appreciably better or worse this year to change that number, but in looking at the returning roster on each non-con team, I found a very linear spread of equal numbers of teams bringing back next to no one, about half of the starters, and most of the starters. So its not like most of these teams are returning 5 guys.

Im just throwing the math on the wall. You can argue about it.

Runnin' Rebel · #26 07-13-2008, 11:26 PM

I see a big deal being made of Wrong State playing Wake Forest on the road this year... Marquette is ranked 11th or 12th in the preseason polls - Wake isn't even getting any votes.

Heck even Akron and George Mason garnered some preseason votes.

THirt · #27 07-13-2008, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by Binnie Bombs 33

I have given many options in other posts I don't want to keep saying the same ****.

I am not saying we should get a home and home with a top 10 team every year, I am not an idiot. But I would like to see one walk through the doors before 2025 ... but then again everyone thinks he is great so who cares!

We need young blood in the upper levels of UD Basketball ... change some stuff up, the appearance of the team, the scheduling ... so forth ... it hasn't been working and UD Basketball just seems to be stagnant.

We need an inovator up top ... not a guy who gives excuses because he cant seal the deal.

Dude, this is the kind of lame, half-arse garbage that people like me get tired of reading. If you don't have anything to add to the discussion, that is fine. You can just read the board, you don't have to just type a bunch of swear words and hit 'submit' every time you read something that you disagree with.

I asked a pretty straightforward question, and you changed my question and didn't answer it other than to say that we need some young blood in the upper levels of UD basketball. I guess the head coach is too old for you?

Look, I'm not that excited about the home schedule either. I was not that excited to shell out my $$$ for the seat license fee, errr, my donation to the athletic department, this year. But I don't think the answer is to just yell and scream and call for firings.

I know that I often play the what if card, but if Chris Wright doesn't break his ankle, we end up in the NCAAs and nobody is calling for the AD's head. Period. You won't convince me otherwise. (by the way, that's my opinion, not a fact, but you'd be hard pressed to come up with a counterargument)

You can't tell me that with a healthy Wright last year, an NCAA appearance under our belt, it wouldn't be easier to start some better series. But it didn't happen. I'm quite confident that Mr. Kissell made a ton of phone calls to other schools and things just didn't work out.

Could some things have been done differently? Perhaps. But in order to pay for football, women's basketball, golf, etc. etc., the men's basketball team needs to make money. Sometimes that gets in the way of scheduling.

Flyer'95 · #28 07-14-2008, 02:49 AM

I did the same assessment of the opponents that chris did(somewhere on another thread), and i got the same results. The vast majority of the noncon teams are losing at least 2 starters. And most of those teams weren't good to begin with. One thing lost in this is that it doesn't set us up well for the following year either.

I think most of us would agree that the following year (09-10), really, is our perfect striking opportunity for the dance. Yes, i know, 'next year' is such a cliche that it's gotten to the point that we're talking about 'next year' before the current year has even started.

But where are the home and homes setup for next year? What have we signed on to make next year magical? I guess we have a home game vs. creighton to hang our hat on in 09, but there needs to be much more work done to make that year special.

And now for this year...

We have a series of teams that won't challenge anybody for the title of their conference. Would it have killed us to try to get arkansas little rock or north texas to pay us a visit instead of Troy? Those teams at least sniffed 20 wins last year and aren't losing anyone terribly meaningful. They will be 20+ winners again this year, and beatable on our home floor. Troy is losing 2 of their top 3 scorers and they were only 4-12 in the Sun belt last year. 12-19 overall. They will be an anchor to our rpi. And that's in addition to the dogs that we got served up to us for the home games of the chicago invitational.

The whole notion that other programs won't come play us has gone so far that now people want us to believe that not only BCS teams, but that ALL teams in ALL of D1 are unwilling to do a home and home with us. It's become comical.

You mean western kentucky wouldn't do a home and home? St. Mary's (CA)? San Diego? UAB? Houston? VCU? BYU? UNLV? New Mexico? Illinois state? Bradley?

And i think some smaller conference champs like Oral Roberts and winthrop would be willing to pay us a visit with no return. Winthrop played at Boston U last year. Oral Roberts played at Lamar. It doesn't seem like the bar is terribly high for these quality opponents to travel. They're not that picky. Honestly.

You guys rip on Binniebombs for not knowing what he's talking about. But none of you know for a fact that kissell really did push himself and try to do better than this either. Look at this schedule. There are very few real conference contenders on it. And there's only ONE chance for a BCS scalp, and one chance for a meaninful top 75 victory on the road. The rest will be dismissed outright from consideration. That is unless we lose to one of these crap teams. It's a no win situation.

Why not take a visit to a top 50 team, get on the air regionally, and get some press for kicking a bcs team's butt on their home court? Answer me that? Why don't we do that?

Oh yeah. That's right. Everybody is afraid to play us. Now they're even afraid to play us on their own home court with no return game.

Gimme a break. The defense of this schedule is lunacy. There's just no excuse for it.

Furio · #29 07-14-2008, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel

I see a big deal being made of Wrong State playing Wake Forest on the road this year... Marquette is ranked 11th or 12th in the preseason polls - Wake isn't even getting any votes.

Heck even Akron and George Mason garnered some preseason votes.

Wake Forest had an RPI of 101 last year. Wake Forest isn't going to play a return game at Wright St. Wright St gets this game by answering an e-mail from Wake Forest which they sent out in a bulk mailing. Not worth mentioning.

The UD home schedule is weak. Who made that decision however doesn't rest in the hands of one scapegoat. The head coach and his assistants have a huge say in setting up these games and the people at the top of the University set the parameters of the athletic budget which impacts the number of home games.

Dirty Sanchez · #30 07-14-2008, 09:17 AM

BB33 is tman's Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Not the endorsement he was looking for.

Tony T 71 · #31 07-14-2008, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Binnie Bombs 33

TMan is right ... it is time to move on from the mediocrtiy that Kissell displays.

1 game in 18 yrs is not good enough, you people are fooling yourselves if you think this guy is good for our basketball program.

It is sad and disheartening that really the only thing he focuses his time on is UD Men's Basketball and he puts together a schedule like this and then tries to defend it ... and uses excuses. So for the last 20 yrs. UD has never been good enough to get a top 10 team to the arena (other than Pitt)? Is someone really going to tell me that is what a good AD does?

WSU is playing Wake Forest on Espn ... UD will have 0 Espn games unless they pick up teh X game and there is no guarantee the game will even be at UD Arena. It is time for UD and this Chump to part ways ... it is time to just stop giving people jobs up-top that don't deserve them ... there is too much fluff at UD as a whole and tons of people who do nothing and get paid.

I love UD arena ... but nothing changes. The City of Dayton never changes ... people want to change the entrance music and there is an up-roar beyond life, people always leave early ... it never changes. The parking situation never changes, it is like UD basketball lives in the 1970's, the band never changes ... imagine how boring UD arena will be this season in the non-conference schedule!

Get me an AD, a freaking young guy that will not sleep until he does it the right way ... 20 yrs of Kissell is enough ... move the HELL ON ... someone who will shake it up and get us back to the promise land. Last year's schedule gave me hope he might change ... but then he steps back 5 steps.

We need change ...

How about you moving and changing your name

Binnie Bombs 33 · #32 07-14-2008, 11:08 AM

No ... I have said consistently ... last year's schedule was perfect ... why did he regress so badly this season?

If we won 2 more games we would of danced, everyone agrees with that ... and we saw how hard first hand it is to win 23 games in a basketball season even with the best player in the A-10 on our squad!

So why am I dissapointed as hell? Because if we win 23 games this year we will not sniff the Ncaa ... where-as last year 23 wins would have gotten us a 10 or 11 seed.

That is the difference. You cant make all these promises, schedule a real good schedule ... collect tons of money all year long (including the NIT) and then come back the next season with a schedule that is down two notches ... to me that makes no sense. I am sorry ... it is stupid.

They had prime negotiating room to get something done with Illinois St ... we beat them at their place, so they know that we are no fluke. They are VERY similar programs.

I am not even asking for much ... 5 games against the top 10 conferences is so do-able I don't get it. Use the extra money from the NIT and extra home game this season to get someone, no excuses. It just seems everyong is going back to this Pitt thing and making excuses ... it can be done, if he cant do it then he needs to move on!

Kissell will never go higher than UD ... all his year's here doesn't that make you wonder about anything guys? He has never been offered anything and there are a lot of reasons why.

This schedule sets us up for failure (A-10 we need to play well, I understand that aspect) But this OOC allows us one game to make a splash ... and will give us a low SOS and RPI ... and god-forbid we choke one away against Toledo or Akron (these guys are human) and this schedule does not allow us to bounce back from a loss like that ... I believe this OOC hurts us more than helps us. Don't forget ... we got MU because we sacrifice our rpi with home games against Cookman and Mercer ...

Lots of questions to be answered and all Kissell wants to do is make excuses ... that is where I draw the last straw. I think a little shake-up at UD in terms of basketball would help us and I hope it comes sooner than later.

Tony T 71 · #33 07-14-2008, 11:15 AM

[quote=Binnie Bombs 33;65581]I have given many options in other posts I don't want to keep saying the same ****.

I am not saying we should get a home and home with a top 10 team every year, .But I would like to see one walk through the doors before 2025 ... but then again everyone thinks he is great so who cares!

We need young blood in the upper levels of UD Basketball ... change some stuff up, the appearance of the team, the scheduling ... so forth ... it hasn't been working and UD Basketball just seems to be stagnant.

Yeah, just look at the recruits already on the team and lined up...no improvement whatsoever:frog:
Lets make a bet: If we win 23 games and finish top 3 in conference I bet we make the big dance!!!

rollo · #34 07-14-2008, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Binnie Bombs 33

I am not even asking for much ... 5 games against the top 10 conferences is so do-able I don't get it.

As I asked you last week, what other UD-like teams have scheduled 5 games against the top 10 conferences next season? If someone has done it, I haven't seen it....but it doesn't mean such a schedule doesn't exist. All I'm asking is that you do some work and list the teams and their schedule so we can see that it is do-able.

Saying it's do-able over and over and over.... doesn't make it do-able. Doing it makes it do-able.

If nobody else can do it then it's not do-able. And we can move on.....

singlet_of_truth · #35 07-14-2008, 11:30 AM

I don't have any real love or hate for TK. And he did do a decent job bringing the program back to respectability (whether that was really a huge effort could be debated given the resources available to UD). But I think it is pretty safe to say that he has had little luck with taking the program "to the next level" (I don't care to hear a re-hash of all the what-ifs of last year - bottom line, it didn't happen).

This schedule is not what teams "in the next level" that we aspire to be would schedule (unless you are Syracuse or otherwise in the Big East). It is pretty lame - and it leaves almost no room for mistakes. Maybe it is an appropriate schedule for the talent level of the upcoming team - but I'm not sure any of us should feel good about that type of statement. It reflects rather poorly on our program.

I am also not a fan of the RPI game that we like to play when scheduling. I forgot what the RPI ended up saying our SOS was last year, but I didn't buy it - our schedule was not that difficult (altough it pushed the right buttons for the RPI machine). It was certainly less difficult than Xavier's schedule regardless of where the machine rankings ended up.

Will TK get fired? No. Why would he when 11,000+ butts are in the seats for every game (even against the likes of Choppin St). Should he? I don't know - I guess that really depends on what the admin views as a successful program. And I am sure the admin views success, at least in part, as 11,000+ fans showing up. I think you will only see real change when the people stop showing up - which, given the Flyer Faithful's history, is not going to happen anytime soon.

NCkevi · #36 07-14-2008, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth

This schedule is not what teams "in the next level" that we aspire to be would schedule (unless you are Syracuse or otherwise in the Big East).

But do teams "in the next level" play road games without a return, which some here are calling for as a way to get 'bigger' name teams on the schedule?

Spuds · #37 07-14-2008, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Binnie Bombs 33

No ... I have said consistently ... last year's schedule was perfect ... why did he regress so badly this season?

If we won 2 more games we would of danced, everyone agrees with that ... and we saw how hard first hand it is to win 23 games in a basketball season even with the best player in the A-10 on our squad!

So why am I dissapointed as hell? Because if we win 23 games this year we will not sniff the Ncaa ... where-as last year 23 wins would have gotten us a 10 or 11 seed.

That is the difference. You cant make all these promises, schedule a real good schedule ... collect tons of money all year long (including the NIT) and then come back the next season with a schedule that is down two notches ... to me that makes no sense. I am sorry ... it is stupid.

They had prime negotiating room to get something done with Illinois St ... we beat them at their place, so they know that we are no fluke. They are VERY similar programs.

I am not even asking for much ... 5 games against the top 10 conferences is so do-able I don't get it. Use the extra money from the NIT and extra home game this season to get someone, no excuses. It just seems everyong is going back to this Pitt thing and making excuses ... it can be done, if he cant do it then he needs to move on!

Kissell will never go higher than UD ... all his year's here doesn't that make you wonder about anything guys? He has never been offered anything and there are a lot of reasons why.

This schedule sets us up for failure (A-10 we need to play well, I understand that aspect) But this OOC allows us one game to make a splash ... and will give us a low SOS and RPI ... and god-forbid we choke one away against Toledo or Akron (these guys are human) and this schedule does not allow us to bounce back from a loss like that ... I believe this OOC hurts us more than helps us. Don't forget ... we got MU because we sacrifice our rpi with home games against Cookman and Mercer ...

Lots of questions to be answered and all Kissell wants to do is make excuses ... that is where I draw the last straw. I think a little shake-up at UD in terms of basketball would help us and I hope it comes sooner than later.

BB33 and Tman are my heros. I totally agree with everything they say. Kissel sucks and unless we get someone new, we are all going to be saying the cliche "always next year." I am sick and tired of never playing anyone. Last year was an exception to the rule. Fans pay too much money to not see anyone, fans deserve to see the Flyers on TV, and Fans should not have to look up what the h e ll the MEAC conference is. This schedule is weak. Flyers should be able to go undefeated this year in OOC, even without Brian Roberts.

Spuds · #38 07-14-2008, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by rollo

As I asked you last week, what other UD-like teams have scheduled 5 games against the top 10 conferences next season? If someone has done it, I haven't seen it....but it doesn't mean such a schedule doesn't exist. All I'm asking is that you do some work and list the teams and their schedule so we can see that it is do-able.

Saying it's do-able over and over and over.... doesn't make it do-able. Doing it makes it do-able.

If nobody else can do it then it's not do-able. And we can move on.....

Well, too bad Chaney is still not at Temple. They would have had at least 8 or 9 top ten teams.

singlet_of_truth · #39 07-14-2008, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by NCkevi

But do teams "in the next level" play road games without a return, which some here are calling for as a way to get 'bigger' name teams on the schedule?

I am sure some do - especially the Gonzaga, Creighton, etc's of the world. I think part of the problem is that our kids get lulled into the comfort and support of the UD Arena. A little toughing up away from UD Arena would do us some good. So, I am all for doing a couple away games without a return to face a quality opponent. Let's sacrifice some money for some experience.

And just to be clear, I am not advocating the Chaney/Temple approach. Although I did love them for their scheduling philosphy (notwithstanding Chaney's diminished returns at the tail end of his career). We just don't have the horses to pull that off.

Chris R · #40 07-14-2008, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Binnie Bombs 33

and god-forbid we choke one away against Toledo or Akron (these guys are human) and this schedule does not allow us to bounce back from a loss like that ...

I think you also accurately summed up why other teams have no ambitions of playing AT the Arena.

hUDygrad · #41 07-14-2008, 12:08 PM

Our friends to the south have games against Duke,Virg, UC,LSU,Auburn, and the Puerto Rico Shootout which has Memphis,Missouri,VA Tech and others.

rollo · #42 07-14-2008, 12:09 PM

BB33 is right about being unable to bounce back from a road loss, with the exception of playing @ X and we all know our history there. Outside of that game, there is no room for error. None.

rollo · #43 07-14-2008, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by hUDygrad

Our friends to the south have games against Duke,Virg, UC,LSU,Auburn, and the Puerto Rico Shootout which has Memphis,Missouri,VA Tech and others.

Any a home? I would think they could bring in at least one or two a season.

X and UD are not at the same level. They've earned the right to schedule the big boys and even draw some to the Cintas. Even at 'ludicrous speed' we are light years away from being where they are in terms of respectibility.

But outside of Duke, will any of those 'big name/little game' teams even make the NCAA's in '08-09???

bobber · #44 07-14-2008, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Spuds

Well, too bad Chaney is still not at Temple. They would have had at least 8 or 9 top ten teams.

Yeah, and they would have lost to almost all of those top ten teams. Then they'd come limping into the A-10 season with a horrible RPI-killing record that would hurt almost every team they touched.

No thanks! Been there, done that.

Chaney was a great coach, but the game passed him by.

hUDygrad · #45 07-14-2008, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by rollo

Any a home? I would think they could bring in at least one or two a season.

X and UD are not at the same level. They've earned the right to schedule the big boys and even draw some to the Cintas. Even at 'ludicrous speed' we are light years away from being where they are in terms of respectibility.

But outside of Duke, will any of those 'big name/little game' teams even make the NCAA's in '08-09???

I agree that we are light years away from being able to accomplish a similar schedule but I don't think anything will change until we 1. consistently make the dance, 2. get to a few sweet 16's. TK has to start something this year and this is the schedule to accomplish it.

BTW, Virg,LSU,Auburn,and uc are all H/H's. Tenn just completed theirs last year. I don't want to be in anymore UL or buy games for unc or duke again. I know they are hard to pass up but it's gotta stop.

I also don't care if the "big name/little game teams' we hopefully start to schedule ever make the tourney. It's more about name recognition than having a decent Pat/Colonial/or Horizon league team come in. I think _'s crushing at woeful Auburn did more good for their pub than our win at HC and both teams finished within 3 places in the RPI.

Flyer'95 · #46 07-14-2008, 12:27 PM

Rollo--I think the request to find comparisons with UD is funny. Why? Because the very requirement sets yourself up for failure. I mean, how many decent programs haven't won a single game in the ncaa in 18 years? Seriously. And the longer that we go on without winning in the ncaa with that baramoter, the fewer teams there will be to compare ourselves to. I don't know the answer, and i don't even know how to begin to look it up. That requirement eliminates the VAST majority of decent hoops schools from consideration or comparison because your parameters are so strict. But just to give you an example, i will.

I wouldn't go this far with this many away games, but just to prove a point here goes:

Ohio U. played Temple, SBU, maryland, Kentucky, and st. johns last year. All but SBU were on the road. And you know what? They WON 3 out of 5 of those including maryland.

Bradley played butler on the road. They played vandy, iowa, iowa state, mich st, and vcu at home. They beat the two iowa teams and lost the rest.

Drake (the only decent school that could match our ncaa futility until last year) played the following teams from the top 10 conferences: st. mary's, duquesne, iowa, butler. Three of those were on the road. They won two of the road games and three of four over all. They finished with an rpi of 10 and got boned on their seeding in the tourney.

This 'next level' just isn't happening, and scheduling like this isn't going to get us there. I think that's why many of us are wearing thin in terms of patience. I don't know who to blame, or who should be fired, but it's simply not happening. OP inherited a 6-21 team. In OP's fourth season he was in the second round of the NIT. From his fourth season on, he was in the post-season 5 out of 6 times. At this point, it's looking like we were at the 'next level', but we just didn't realize it.

I have, along with many others, pointed out several ways the schedule could have and should have been improved. Home games vs. opponents who are challenging for their conference title. Taking BCS teams on the road. Virtually no one has laid out an argument against these things. And to those who are against us playing a BCS team on the road, i offer this.

When SBU goes and plays multiple games on the road against BCS teams, they aren't searching for wins. They're searching for money. That's bad for a program and the conference as a whole.

If we would do it we would be searching for, and possibly getting, valuable wins on the road. TV exposure. Press, etc.

What do we get for that wonderful home game against Troy? An anchor to our rpi. We already have two horrendous rpi schools on the schedule. Why add a third? Seriously, are we syracuse or something? Are we assuming that the reputation of the A10 and its toughness will get us in?

And my begging for more competition isn't just from a fan's perspective. It's from a player's perspective. A recruit's perspective. Who the heck are half those schools on our noncon schedule? How is that going to prepare our team for a 'top 3' conference run?

It's not. I feel like BG and TK punted this year away before it has already begun. I'd be delighted if myself, binnie, tman, etc are all wrong. And if Troy ends up being the drake of 2009. But the odds are against it.

This schedule is horrendous. It's ok to admit that. They're not going to revoke your seat license or anything. Say it with me. It's baaaaaaaaaaaad.

rollo · #47 07-14-2008, 12:54 PM

1) The home schedule is horrible.
2) We should have at least 2 more road games v. any big name school.
3) I wanted to be proven wrong so that it could be demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that Kissell laid an egg in scheduling this season. If 6-10 teams like ours (mid-major...dohhh) out there are loaded with ACC, Big East and SEC teams including a home game or two, and we aren't one of them, then Kissell has some explaining to do. Fact is, though, that these schedules rarely if ever exist. I'm not sure all the examples you gave prove much as SBU and St. John's stink (and have for years) and VCU isn't in a top conference. Point is, though, looking at Ohio U's schedule, at least one team out there is trying to pull the right strings.

This schedule is going to put alot of us to sleep. For many of the match-ups, I'm sure the halftime show will bring more applause than the game. And if we're lucky, cracking 100 pts will happen more than once. I'm not happy with it but honestly believe that Kissell busted his rear end yet couldn't convince a big school to (a) come here or (b) get us a date there.

I've sat in Kissell's office and spoke with him at length about the program and left feeling pretty darn good about it. I've had lunch with Ass't AD Tim Wabler and left feeling the same way (he paid!). James Brothers is a contortionist when it comes to working with season ticket holders. One thing I will say about our AD and his assistants is that they are good...they're hard workers with a vision for the program. What many of our reactionary fans don't realize is that in doing their jobs, they have to clear more hurdles than Edwin C Moses and it isn't as easy (do-able) as picking up the banana phone and calling out someone's mother.

THirt · #48 07-14-2008, 12:56 PM

I don't think anyone disagrees that the schedule isn't good. But that's not really the point.

People are arguing different things, and changing arguments as it suits them (not you, 95, more BB33 who can't/won't answer a simple direct question).

The athletic department as a whole has decided that our strategy for men's BB is to schedule as many home games as possible. I don't have any inside knowledge at all into the finances of the university or the athletic department, but it's not just as simple as calling up BCS schools and asking to play there. It's an entire paradigm shift. Seriously. One or two more road games makes a HUGE difference in terms of budgeting and revenue.

Now, I'd argue, and a lot of others would argue that revenue long-term would be much, much better with some NCAA wins, national rankings, more publicity, etc etc. But the argument is how we get there.

It's like job searching. You can't get a job unless you have some experience, but you can't get experience unless you have a job.

We can't get significantly better scheduling opportunities unless we do well in the postseason. We can't get to the postseason without a better schedule.

Now again, all this is based on the assumption that a pillar of the strategy is to maximize home games. If you want to argue that we should give up some home games, that's legit, and I'd be all for it, but none of us really know how that affects the 08-09 budget. What's the income per home game for UD? $500,000? $1,000,000? That's a heck of a lot of money to just give away, especially if you're talking about 2 or 3 or more road games instead of home games.

For the record, I don't think the schedule is horrendous, but it ain't good. However, perhaps it will set us up for a glittering record and get the team confidence sky-high heading into the A-10 season. We'll have to see.

Furio · #49 07-14-2008, 12:57 PM

Bradley played Iowa and Vanderbilt in a tourney down in Texas not at home.
Flyer95 the points you raise are the same that were brought up throught the 70's and early 80's under Donoher as well. Simply changing an AD or a coach isn't going to change the lopsided number of home games. It is what the people at the very top of the University want. Since the new President has been appointed I see nothing to indicate there will be any change in that formula.

Flyer'95 · #50 07-14-2008, 01:09 PM

But as gazoo pointed out in another thread, that chicago tourney gave us an 'extra' home game this year. We have one more than we did last year. Why not take our show on the road against a bcs team instead of adding a third dead weight to our schedule like Troy?

We would be no worse off financially than we were last year. We'd get our team on a network that you can watch on tv instead of a laptop. And who knows, maybe we'd actually win a meaningful game. On the road no less. Against a team that gets press coverage. At worst, we'd lose to a good team but get the taste of competitive hoops and big atmospheres for down the road.

Last year's schedule was perfect. And i think kissell has done much better work in the past. There is so much room for improvement on it that it's just pretty puzzling.

longtimefan · #51 07-14-2008, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by rollo

Although I'm not sure all the examples you gave prove much as SBU and St. John's stink (and have for years) and VCU isn't in a top conference. Point is, though, looking at Ohio U's schedule, at least one team out there is trying to pull the right strings.

I agree we need one or two more "name" teams on the schedule, but don't talk about how great OU's schedule was before you look at it more closely. They had 6 home games and 9 road/neutral non-conference games. Is that what we want? And the Temple game was scheduled by the conference. Temple agreed to play a certain number of MAC teams in basketball when the MAC let them in the conference for football only. The St John's game was in the Rainbow Classic. So the only "name" teams they really scheduled were Maryland and Kansas, which obviously were road-only games. I agree we should have tried to get one road-only game with a "name" team, but who says TK didn't try. Certain teams might be willing to play an MAC team but wouldn't be willing to play us. I don't know this to be true, but neither does anyone else on this board. The DDN said that Wake Forest sent an e-mail to certain conferences looking for a home-only game. It would be interesting to know which conferences they sent it to.

Furio · #52 07-14-2008, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Flyer'95

But as gazoo pointed out in another thread, that chicago tourney gave us an 'extra' home game this year. We have one more than we did last year. Why not take our show on the road against a bcs team instead of adding a third dead weight to our schedule like Troy?

We would be no worse off financially than we were last year. We'd get our team on a network that you can watch on tv instead of a laptop. And who knows, maybe we'd actually win a meaningful game. On the road no less. Against a team that gets press coverage. At worst, we'd lose to a good team but get the taste of competitive hoops and big atmospheres for down the road.

Last year's schedule was perfect. And i think kissell has done much better work in the past. There is so much room for improvement on it that it's just pretty puzzling.

Have you seen the price of National City Bank stock recently?
They have in the past been a major contributor to UD basketball but given the recent meltdown will that continue?

rollo · #53 07-14-2008, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by longtimefan

I agree we need one or two more "name" teams on the schedule, but don't talk about how great OU's schedule was before you look at it more closely. They had 6 home games and 9 road/neutral non-conference games. Is that what we want? And the Temple game was scheduled by the conference. Temple agreed to play a certain number of MAC teams in basketball when the MAC let them in the conference for football only. The St John's game was in the Rainbow Classic. So the only "name" teams they really scheduled were Maryland and Kansas, which obviously were road-only games. I agree we should have tried to get one road-only game with a "name" team, but who says TK didn't try. Certain teams might be willing to play an MAC team but wouldn't be willing to play us. I don't know this to be true, but neither does anyone else on this board. The DDN said that Wake Forest sent an e-mail to certain conferences looking for a home-only game. It would be interesting to know which conferences they sent it to.

So I guess that what some people say is easily 'do-able' hasn't been done.

Unless, of course, no other A.D. has thought of it, in which case it would be 'unthinkable'.

Therefore, until it is done, it's 'impossible'.

Furio · #54 07-14-2008, 01:49 PM

Ohio U. schedule got them a CBI tourney bid. Maybe we need to continue the search for a schedule that will get you an NCAA bid.

rollo · #55 07-14-2008, 01:57 PM

This is the best I could do.....Utah's '08-09 non conference schedule looks like this:

Nov. 15 Southwest Baptist Salt Lake City TBA
Nov. 18 Wisconsin-Green Bay Salt Lake City 7 p.m.
Nov. 21 Glen Wilkes Classic - TBD Daytona Beach, Fla. TBA
Nov. 22 Glen Wilkes Classic - TBD Daytona Beach, Fla. TBA
Nov. 23 Glen Wilkes Classic - TBD Daytona Beach, Fla. TBA
Nov. 28 at Missouri State Springfield, Mo. 6 p.m.
Dec. 3 Oregon Salt Lake City TBA
Dec. 6 at Idaho State Pocatello, Idaho 7 p.m.
Dec. 10 California Salt Lake City TBA
Dec. 13 at Oklahoma Norman, Okla. TBA
Dec. 20 Weber State Salt Lake City TBA
Dec. 22 at Utah State Logan, Utah 7 p.m.
Dec. 27 at UC Irvine Irvine, Calif. 8 p.m.
Dec. 31 Gonzaga Salt Lake City TBA
Jan. 6 LSU Salt Lake City TBA

On the good side:

Oregon, Cal, Gonzaga and LSU at home.
Oklahoma and Missouri State on the road.

On the bad side:

Only six (6) home games.

I would consider UD to almost be on Utah's level, but barely if at all. And while the schedule has some decent teams, only having 6 non-conference home games wouldn't cut it at UD.

Flyer'95 · #56 07-14-2008, 02:00 PM

First off, i said that we should not schedule so many away games as OU has. But the fact is, they played many teams from top 10 conferences in one season. How they did it is immaterial. Your argument suggests that even our auburn and marquette games shouldn't 'count' because they were in a tourney and we didn't 'schedule' them. We entered the tourney for the sole purpose of playing teams like that. So did OU. You can mock opponents like SJU, but at least they get coverage and tv.

And none of you have got any semblance of a response as to why we're scheduling so many lower tier teams from lower tier conferences. Why not a team from the upper half of those conferences? UNCG is decent actually. But troy and deleware state are terrible. Coppin state is terrible. Marshal is marginal. Two of those four games should be better than that. Why three home and homes with the mac? We should have never agreed to a home and home with toledo unless it was for one of our players like BRob to play in his home town. But we didn't do that either.

Drake managed to play four top quality opponents, most of which they were forced to play on the road because until recently, they've sucked as bad as we have in the post season. But you know what? Their AD and coach knew they were good enough to take on those challenges. They chose winnable road games against good competition. What do our AD and coach think of our team? Not much apparently. And there goes another program passing us by. Drake is now just one more program we can't compare ourselves to because they've been to the dance more recently than we have and therefore now have cart blanche to schedule whoever they want. That's how this circular logic goes.

So i guess each year we'll have worse and worse options as we get worse ourselves. We'll play crappier teams, invariably lose to a crappy team here and there, and then we won't be a desirable opponent to bcs schools because we lose to crappy teams and we won't make the tourney because the only teams we beat are crappy and therefore no good teams will want to play us anywhere because we're crappy.

That's what we're looking at right? Makes sense to stay the course then. Good job everybody.

tman · #57 07-14-2008, 02:04 PM

A couple of things.
I keep reading posters state---don't you think he (ted) is trying? He's trying.
Big deal-----trying isn't enough. Try Doing--(but he's trying is the dumbest thing Ive read--no one is saying he doesn't try).

I also see the---- we have to get to a certain level THEN Ted will ride into the sun set and make us a great program--WHAT BUNCH OF CRAP.
If you dont remember---Purnell had this program in a very good situation--Ted didn't respond--we didn't get to the promise land--so that argument doesn't hold water--

ANd talk about extremes---like the goof balls who say things like--well you wanna be like Temple---WHAT? no one said Temple --just give us a chance to dance, be on TV and give us some excittment at UD arena.

How about money---the u was given a huge increase from ticket holders again last year(another huge increase) yet the kool aid drinkers keep trying to make like the U cannot afford a decent basketball program--WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP--Ask an X fan about XU basketball and they will tell you about players and coaches--ask a UD fan and he will at some point talk about Money (prices--scheduling etc). This is another excuse from Ted why his hands are tied---(more i cant---its the money).

How about this one---even though contracts are signed in advanced--sometimes two, three or more years--Teddy says the reason he can't get a quality game is because we beat Pitt. COME ON GUYS---you can't be that stupid.

Perhaps one of two things are going on here--if the U cannot afford a div one team---drop it and save us alot of time OR--the only objective for UD basketball is to make money----forget your supporters--forget the NCAA hopes--Forget entertainment values or students---just take the money and run.

The one thing about UD fans Ive never understood is why they expect so little--And why do they make everything so personal.
I have nothing against Ted--I think he's a lousy ad and hurts the program---so what --its only an opinion--avid wants to make it out to be some sort of JFK conspiracy---(by the way avid---my real name is batman) ?
Its nothing personal---businesses make changes all the time--the world will not come to an end if UD changes AD's.

If Ted worked for anyone else in college basketball, a change would have happened a long time ago---While program after program surpases Dayton , we sit back and let it slip away slowly year after year---and now we see ----here, at this very site --before the season even starts--people talking ---wait untill next year--its not even this year yet------its a joke.

One last thing----if you think big time programs are AFRAID to play at UD---your living in a dream world--Its not fear---UNC doesn't know what conference UD plays in--
Kentucky is afraid of lossing to UT twice---not about a game with a mid-major---
UCLA is not fearfull of playing Dayton.
You think LSU is sitting around during the off season and thinking--Gosh--I hope we dont have to play at Dayton-------get real.

They, the big boys, worry about maintaining a quailty program---getting good contracts that are entertaining for supporters, giving them an opportunity to get on tv , maximizing exposure-- allowing them to get in and have a great showing in the NCAA's (TRY THAT ROUTE TED)

Leave your paradyme and get in tunned to the real world.
Its not fear---its about getting a contract---like your lawyer--or agent--your representative.

Getting a good contract depends on the quality or your agent. If your agent isn't up to par--you get the kind of program Dayton has right now---stagnent and without national merit.

Binnie Bombs 33 · #58 07-14-2008, 02:29 PM

Rollo (others),

I didn't even look up those programs when I said 5 games from the top 10 conference should be done and not hard to accomplish. Then bang someone steps in with all those teams who do it. I also expect tons more this season when all the schedules come out.

I am sorry but Kissell gets defended on this board like he is some genuis ... he has one job to focus on and that is UD Basketball ... he isn't even at a school where he has to juggle multiple major programs.

We haven't won an Ncaa tourny game in 18 years, we cant schedule schools in the top 10 conferences, our schedule regressed as our talent level is supposedly getting better. Not only did the schedule regress he left no margain for error if we choke one away we are screwed ... Marquette is SOOOOO EARLY in the year that even if we beat them with no forseeable national tv games that will mean nothing late year ... and if we do not beat them, then what do we hang our hat on as our marquee non-conf win? It is not always the opponents persay, it is how you set your team up for success as opposed to failure ... this schedule has many problems.

He can't claim money ... he has an extra home game this season and made revenue from the NIT ... he cant claim lack of fan support or low rate facilities ... he cant claim the program isnt rising if you use the NIT as the stepping stone to the next level being the Ncaa tournament ... then what the hell is his problem?

How can Utah put together that quality of a schedule and we cant? Why doesnt Kissell ever get an offer to leave UD and get a better job? It is because flat out he is not that good.

He may be a nice guy and all that but seriously ... as a pitch man he must suck donkeyballs ... my lord sell CW, sell the tradition ... sign freaking Illinois St or SIU ... 5 games against top 10 conferences are not hard to get ... I made a list earlier, very do-able games ... but we continue to go for tiny, tiny conferences and in most cases not even the best from that league, which is a disgrace.

Bottom line ... 18 years not one Ncaa tournament win ... in many places he would have been gone 8 years ago ... why is he so special here? Why does everyone go to bat for this guy? 18 years people!! 18 freaking years!! This is not change for change sake ... this is change for a better result ... he has had many years to make himself a person of record and he has not done that.

It is time for a new perspective, a new brain pool of talent and someone who can succeed with TREMENDOUS recources and really only one sport to pay very close attention to.

Binnie Bombs 33 · #59 07-14-2008, 02:32 PM

Spuds, you know I love you baby!

Flyer'95 · #60 07-14-2008, 02:35 PM

Rollo--thanks for that utah schedule. I'd take that and run with it. In fact, i'd take a schedule that's only 70% as difficult as that one and run with it. Our schedule is about 1/5 as difficult as that one. Even a lot of their 'cupcake' games are a challenge. UC irvine, UW Milwaukee, Utah St. and weber state are all traditionally at least .500 teams. Most of them are 20 win teams. They have really only two easy games on the whole schedule in idaho st and southwest baptist.

When's the last time wofford, bethune cookman, mercer, troy or coppin state even sniffed 20 wins?

Look at those names again guys. That's who we're playing. Don't you think it's maybe a little on the soft side?

The good:
-Toledo last got to 20 wins in 2004. They've had 19 wins a couple times since then. They're a solid home opponent. I don't think we should be travelling to their place though.
-Deleware state is actually a great home opponent. They've won 20 games the last few years.
-UNC Greensboro is a good home opponent. They've steadily improved over 5 years and they are arguably second only to davidson in their conference.
-Akron has been a 20 win program the last four years.
-Mason was a good home and home
-creighton was a good home and home
-miami is a traditional rival and must be kept

The Ugly...

Wofford hasn't been above .500 this century.
Neither has bethune cookman.
Coppin State was last above .500 in the year 2000.
Mercer has been above .500 once in the last four years.
Troy has only been D1 for three years. And no, they've never been above .500.
Marshall was last above .500 in 2001.

These are crappy, crappy teams. Research indicates they will be crappy again. Did we really need SIX cupcake games? SIX? And yes, i know that two are due to the chicago tourney. But that's all the more reason to get better home opponents. I'm not talking duke coming to the arena. I'm talking maybe drake, st. mary's, wku, VCU etc. Heck i'd even take oral roberts or iupui at this point.

Is that really not doable? Come on.

Actually, iupui has passed us by though. They won't play here anymore.

rollo · #61 07-14-2008, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Binnie Bombs 33

Rollo (others),

I didn't even look up those programs when I said 5 games from the top 10 conference should be done and not hard to accomplish. Then bang someone steps in with all those teams who do it. I also expect tons more this season when all the schedules come out.

Look at the schedule for more that 3 seconds and you'll see that the only teams that have attempted it also gave up 50% of their home games, which doesn't bring about any athletic hardship because they only draw 3K per game and play D1 football (OU). When offering your opinion, you never mentioned that requirement!

Originally Posted by Binnie Bombs 33

How can Utah put together that quality of a schedule and we cant? Why doesnt Kissell ever get an offer to leave UD and get a better job? It is because flat out he is not that good.

If 6 home non conference games makes for a 'quality' schedule, I'll take what Kissell gives us.

Furio · #62 07-14-2008, 02:43 PM

Utah played a similar schedule this past year and like Ohio U played in the CBI tourney.

Radar · #63 07-14-2008, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by rollo

I've sat in Kissell's office and spoke with him at length about the program and left feeling pretty darn good about it. I've had lunch with Ass't AD Tim Wabler and left feeling the same way (he paid!). James Brothers is a contortionist when it comes to working with season ticket holders. One thing I will say about our AD and his assistants is that they are good...they're hard workers with a vision for the program. What many of our reactionary fans don't realize is that in doing their jobs, they have to clear more hurdles than Edwin C Moses and it isn't as easy (do-able) as picking up the banana phone and calling out someone's mother.

Rollo -- the fact that you've had an audience with the top 3 in the UD Athletic Dept skews your viewpoint. Not a little...alot! I've had conversations with all 3 as well and will never deny their work ethic...ever. I've seen first hand what James Brothers (and Gary McCans) do for any fan, let alone STH's. Same goes for Tim and TK. Where else do you often hear personally from any of these men when calling or writing to voice a concern? Having said all that, and regardless of the "history" of many of the posters earlier in this thread, I've spoken to many a STH over the past week and have yet to find ONE who likes what they see, not only with this schedule, but with the results of the past 10 years -- under many different "scheduling philosophies." Remove comparisons to any other program, be it X or OU. We're talking strictly UD here. The program we ALL know the most about. It's not pretty.

rollo · #64 07-14-2008, 02:53 PM

I agree! Notice the sad and angry face....

Flyer'95 · #65 07-14-2008, 02:57 PM

Furio, you're an all or nothing guy aren't you? Again, for the last time, nobody is asking for a TEMPLE schdule. I'm not even asking for a Utah schedule. I'm asking for something closer to their schedule. Perhaps halfway. Does that process?

You're not responding to anything else about the argument of our schedule being absolutely loaded with cupcakes.

BTW, new mexico played a schedule like our 2008-09 schedule last year. They won 24 games. And no, they didn't make the tourney.

Stephen F. Austin was 22-5 last year. But their schedule was so soft they didn't make the tourney. VCU was 24-7 last year with a schedule that was even harder than ours this year. They finished strong at 16-4 in conference. But their non-con schedule wasn't enough to get them in the tourney.

Get ready to add UD to a list like that this year.

Binnie Bombs 33 · #66 07-14-2008, 03:02 PM

Rollo, good point.

But still ... I am not saying we play only 6 home games ... but it seemed like this schedule was almost all $ driven which has been happening a lot at UD in general the past 5 years. I would gladly take away 2 home games from this schedule and have a nuetral or road game or a home and home being away this season with teams from a top 10 conference.

I am sorry but there are bottom lines here guys ... 18 yrs. not one tourny win ... once again this isn't change for change sake ... this is change to be better and elite. A new philosophy or never changing philosophy to make us the best basketball program we can be is what needs to happen. He makes claims then backfires on them, if you spend a couple extra bucks to keep your philosophy alive then freaking do it. UD has plenty of dollars, donors, facilities etc. We even have an extra home game this year, scrap it and get someone normal.

The other point I want to make is the teams are bad on this schedule, we know that ... but it is the way the schedule is made. Do you remember last year when all the talking heads said UD has been off the national radar (no tv) since their win at Pitt and it seemed like it happened years ago ... think about it this year. We play MU in November and then play basically no one of substance until X ... how in the HELL are you supposed to stay on the radar. And if we slip up we cant make up that game until we play X. Under BG we are a traditionally average A-10 team and how can we expect to dance this season if we have no marquee wins out of conference and an okay A-10 record? As stated in previous posts other teams that do this, do not usually make it ... 25 wins for us next year is really the only way we will dance.

My brother goes to Missouri St and about 2 or 3 yrs ago they had this similar schedule. They beat Wisconsin (#3 in the country at the time) in the Paradise Tournament in November ... they then played cup-cake after cup-cake, was never on national tv and ended up going 11-6 in the tough valley and they missed the Ncaa tournament with 23 wins. They had an rpi of 28 ... but no big wins and a low sos ... also no one even remembered the Wisconsin win. And they even made it on Espn for a brakcetbuster game vs. Winthrop which I attended. I look at their schedule that year and it is VERY similar to us which is why I hate this schedule and the person who made it. They played Wisconsin and OK St in the tournament, Cookman, Deleware St, Alabama St, UNC-W, Wisconson M, Toledo and Winthrop along with an MVC league who sent 3 that season ... HOW SIMILIAR IS THAT SCHEDULE!

I thought we turned a corner last year with the schedule, CW and the NIT and now it seems like greed has regressed us. I don't want to hear any complaining if we are sitting at 23 or 24 wins with an rpi of 40 and we miss the tournament because we played Po-Dunk College all year.

I agree that I was probably to quick to jump the gun on BG he has only been here 5 years ... but 18 years with sad, sad results ... needs to be dealt with and I am not trying to be an ******* (sometimes I may come off as that) but we need some new ideas, the same inconsistent ideas from Kissell do not work.

Furio · #67 07-14-2008, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Flyer'95

Furio, you're an all or nothing guy aren't you? Again, for the last time, nobody is asking for a TEMPLE schdule. I'm not even asking for a Utah schedule. I'm asking for something closer to their schedule. Perhaps halfway. Does that process?

You're not responding to anything else about the argument of our schedule being absolutely loaded with cupcakes.

BTW, new mexico played a schedule like our 2008-09 schedule last year. They won 24 games. And no, they didn't make the tourney.

Stephen F. Austin was 22-5 last year. But their schedule was so soft they didn't make the tourney. VCU was 24-7 last year with a schedule that was even harder than ours this year. They finished strong at 16-4 in conference. But their non-con schedule wasn't enough to get them in the tourney.

Get ready to add UD to a list like that this year.

I already responded to it in my first post " The UD home schedule is weak"
Try reading what is posted.
The last 10 years have seen 3 NCAA bids and 3 NIT bids.
The 27 years before that saw: 4 NCAA bids and 6 NIT bids.
For those upset with the results of the last 10 years can't be happy with the last 37 years either. The problems have been there along time and there is no magic easy fix.

Chris R · #68 07-14-2008, 03:32 PM

Theres no law against winning enough games to reach the NCAAs safely as a #9 seed no matter the schedule.

Flyer'95 · #69 07-14-2008, 03:32 PM

To compare the last 10 to the previous 27 is not a fair comparison. There's no real way to compare them. The number of teams in D1 was different. The number of teams invited to tourneys was different. There's just too many variables. But if you'd like to talk the last 10 years, BG's reign isn't looking that good. I think the caliber of athlete we're getting is better. But the caliber of play has not been getting better and the postseason results have not been getting better since he got here.

If you feel that this year's schedule is weak, it would make more sense to offer suggestions as to how it could be improved than to play devil's advocate offering up 'cbi tourney' info about teams and schedule's that are virtually unrelated to the schedule that many of us are seeking. No one said we should have temple's or utah's schedule. The ohio cbi tourney reference misses a few key points. They weren't good enough to play that schedule and win. I think this team is capable of beating better teams than what we've scheduled. Do you disagree with that assessment, or do you want to just tell me about some other team that made the cbi tourney?

longtimefan · #70 07-14-2008, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Furio

I already responded to it in my first post " The UD home schedule is weak"
Try reading what is posted.
The last 10 years have seen 3 NCAA bids and 3 NIT bids.
The 27 years before that saw: 4 NCAA bids and 6 NIT bids.
For those upset with the results of the last 10 years can't be happy with the last 37 years either. The problems have been there along time and there is no magic easy fix.

Agree. Good post. Read what is posted? That is asking a lot of the screamers. Many people have said the buy games should be with better teams, and many people have said we should have at least one more "name" team on the schedule. The screamers don't notice these posts because they are too busy screaming. We went from 1974 to 1984 without an NCAA bid - that's 9 years without an NCAA bid. From 1975 to 1989 (15 years) we had two NCAA bids. I guess somehow that was TK's fault too. In the late 80's we had seasons of 13-15, 13-18, and 12-17. I guess that was TK's fault too. If my math is correct I would say that three NCAA bids in the past 9 years is better than two NCAA bids in 15 years or zero NCAA bids in 9 years. But I wouldn't expect the screamers to look at the facts.

Bill McPeek · #71 07-14-2008, 03:44 PM

I've been reading this thread with interest. I thought it might be interesting to look at other A-10 teams' schedules to see how they do it. I couldn't find all the teams OC schedules for this year so I looked at last year. Make your own conclusions.
Last Year U
d played 13 OCC games, 2 against BCS conference schools, one home (Pitt), one away (L'ville)
This year we play 13 OCC games,four Bethane Cookman an Mercer are home in the tournament, two BCS teams both on a neutral court. (Marquette and Auburn). No BCS teams come into the Arena. Last year's A-10. At the very least I think it shows scheduling philosophy.

OCC H A BCS COMMENTS
Charlotte - 14 9-5 Georgia Tech - A Two BCS at home
Wake Forest - H Also played Davidson and So. Ill
Maryland - H at home and Hofstra nd Tulsa A
Clemson - A Some traditonal rivalry games?

Duquesne - 13 7-6 Pitt - H Traditional rivalry games
W. Va. - A

Fordham - 12 7-5 Missouri - A Very weak OCC opponents at home
Syracuse - A
Georgetown - A

GW - 10 5-5 UCLA - A No BCS teams st home.
Va. Tech - A
Alabama - A

LaSalle - 12 5-7 Mississippi - H (tournament) Very weak home schedule
DePaul - H How did they get DePaul @H
Nova - A Big 5 game
Florida St. - A

UMass 14 7-7 Syracuse - A No BCS home games
Boston College - A
Vanderbuilt - A

URI 15 10-5 BC - A One BCS - Providence- home.
Providence - H Rival game
Syracuse - A

Richmond 13 7-6 Memphis - A Two BCS home games
So. Florida - H Also played VCU - A
Va. Tech - H

St. Louis 14 10-4 Pitt - A No BCS home games. Also played So.
BC - A Ill. and Missouri ST. at home.
Traditional rivals ?

Bonnies 14 7-7 None Weak OCC schedule. Expected.

St. Joe's 12 6-6 Nova - H Big 5 game. Also played
Syracuse - A Gonzaga, Holy Cross and Creighton
Penn St. - H home.

Temple - 13 6-7 Tennessee - A Remnants of Chaney scheduling
Providence - A philosophy?
Nova - H Big 5 game
Florida - A
Duke - H

Xavier - 15 11-4 Indiana - H X earned their schedule
Arizona St. - A
Tennessee - H
Kansas State - H
Virginia - A

OK, what does this tell us? It seems to me that many A-10 schools get home and homes with traditional rivals. For what ever reason we can't. I include former rivals like Notre Dame, Cincinnati, DePaul, Louisville and Marquette. Not many BCS teams will play an A-10 team as an away game. Two of our games this year, Bethane Cookman and Mercer, we didn't schedule, they are in the tournament. Xavier has set its own standard. All things considered, our home schedule isn't that bad this year, in my opinion. Sure I' love to see the old days of playing the above mentioned traditional rivals home and home every year. All that's left from the old days is Miami. If we want to have the kind of schedule X has we have to WIN, WIN, WIN in the future! Boy this sure doesn't look like what I typed!

Furio · #72 07-14-2008, 03:58 PM

You can construct a thousand different scheduling options but the Margin of Error for UD getting into the NCAA is going to be slim under any of them. Personally I would have liked a tougher schedule but I have no delusions that adding one or two tougher games would yeild an NCAA bid as we learned last season. If the team is good enough for an NCAA bid they will get it done.

Bill McPeek · #73 07-14-2008, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Furio

You can construct a thousand different scheduling options but the Margin of Error for UD getting into the NCAA is going to be slim under any of them. Personally I would have liked a tougher schedule but I have no delusions that adding one or two tougher games would yeild an NCAA bid as we learned last season. If the team is good enough for an NCAA bid they will get it done.

That pretty much sums things up rather well!

Binnie Bombs 33 · #74 07-14-2008, 04:09 PM

If you look at the past and compare things ... and then say well it is "ok" then your future is bleak. No it is not "ok" ... 18 yrs ... 0 Ncaa wins, how do you defend that? How do you keep your job!!?? Relate that to a normal job ... people are angry because this guy is getting year after year to do something and he cannot come through. And finally last year when everyone thought it was a stepping stone, this schedule screams recession. Another year of the NIT is horsecrap and if you guys are settling for that then maybe we should give Kissell a 10 yr deal.

It is not just the people on the schedule guys ... it is the way it is constructed ... it is conducive to us failing (we are not talking A-10 portion). You play Marquette so early no one cares ... then you play NO ONE until X ... and for some reason we are traveling to Toledo and Akron (why are those home and home games) and if we cough one up how do we make that up?

We could honestly have 23 or 24 wins before the A-10 tourny and in all reality no lies ... our big win could be @ home against George Mason and nuetral against Auburn ... and to me that is not good enough.

Binnie Bombs 33 · #75 07-14-2008, 04:12 PM

In reality me coming on this board and saying, "he must go" probably doesnt sound appealing. But in all seriousness sit down and think about it ... 18 years, 0 Ncaa wins ... and behind all 18 of those seasons is one man Kissell ... there have been many coaches, many talented players ... but only one AD. And at the end of the day when you have 18 years of no tourny wins and you are the AD it points back to you. You can get rid of a coach, but if you keep bringing in clunkers as the AD then it goes back to you.

Really ... 18 years and no Ncaa wins ... is that good enough for a program like UD?

smitch425 · #76 07-14-2008, 04:21 PM

While it may be true that we have no NCAA wins in men's basketball under TK, let's not discount the successes that the other flyer teams have had. Volleyball, football, golf... If you are going to blame TK for the basketball failures (as some call them) then be fair and acknowlege the successes he has had. Personally, I like him ,and I think the schedule fits the young team.

UACFlyer · #77 07-14-2008, 04:27 PM

Last year we had a strong OOC schedule and did well against it. Had we gone 10-6 in the A10 instead of a mediocre 8-8 we would have been a shoo-in.

Note, the A10 is not a weak conference. There are 30+ Div 1 conferences; last year the A10 ranked 7-10 depending on the poll, right behind the Big 6. So, if we were to go 12-4 in the A10, for example, and win two in the tourney,....combine that with solid performance against our OOC opponents and I think we're in.

Let's assume that we do well against our OOC opponents and that Marquette doesn't humiliate us,....then what matters is A10 play;....10-6 is marginal, 11-5 or 12-4 would reflect a strong finsish in stark contrast to last year when we limped home.

If anything, our strong OOC schedule last year and our very good performance suggests that how you finish is a lot more important than how you start. I'll say it again; our fate hinges on A10 play, not the OOC schedule.

tman · #78 07-14-2008, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Furio

You can construct a thousand different scheduling options but the Margin of Error for UD getting into the NCAA is going to be slim under any of them. Personally I would have liked a tougher schedule but I have no delusions that adding one or two tougher games would yeild an NCAA bid as we learned last season. If the team is good enough for an NCAA bid they will get it done.

What the heck is this supposed to mean--What do we do in the mean time---turn the station untill march------I LOVE COLLEGE BASKETBALL-----
I have tickets--I wanna see games--real ones. This is My team....

And if what you say is true---why couldn't you schedule all BCS--because-----Quote--if the team is good enough blah blah blah.

You have to realize that scheduling is important to making the NCAA. Sure you HAVE to do well in conference--but again if you want to participate in the greatest event is sports you have to follow the rules--and they are--

Who you beat.
Who you lost too.
Where did you play.

If you schedule your program with disregard to these rules---you disqualify yourself from participation---sans winning your conference tourny. Why would a person do this? How does this help your position?

Do you wanna see the benglas play an indoorfootball team all year---how interesting is that?

Would you watch and root for the reds if they played
louisville bats all year--WOULD YOU PAY TO SEE THAT?---how unintersting is that.

Would you pay good money to see the Devils skate against Fort Wayne.

This isn't college basketball.
The nations best college basketball fans---are not witnessing college basketball--if they are --its a very low class of div one ball.

I thnk its important to consider the entire body of work as it pertains to Ted and Basketball.
Sure Dayton was down a bit----you cant keep UD ball down that low---not even Ted can do that--its bigger than Ted---considering support arena etc.

Under captain Ted
The students got bored and left.
The newspapers have turned against UD.
WSU looks to be on national TV Twice while UD = Zero.
The schedule is among the worst in all college basketball(home and away).
All past rivals have gone on to bigger and better things and refuse to play us.
The men have NEVER won a single NCAA game.
The ladies have NEVER seen a single invite to the NCAA.

Come on----please

Binnie Bombs 33 · #79 07-14-2008, 04:47 PM

Last year's OOC Schedule put us in-line to dance at 23 wins (after the A-10 tourny)!

This year's OOC Schedule does not put us in-line to dance at 23 wins (before the A-10 tourny)!

That is the difference ... playing well in the A-10 is a given ... but how well you have to play is a result of the OOC ... 10-6 this season with our OOC will not do it. I think a dozen wins may do it if we only lose 1 OOC game.

I give credit to Ted for the recent success of the other sports teams (not the past of the volleyball) However Baseball and Softball still lag behind.

I am sorry though ... when you sign on to be the AD at UD, you better make **** sure that the basketball team is a consistent winner, that is the bread and butter.

18 years, 0 Ncaa wins ... it is time to move on ... if not, how many more years do you go with this guy? 1 more? 5 more? Lifetime deal? Time for UD to step out of mediocre leadership and into the forefront where X is and where we belong.

MrFlyerFanatic · #80 07-14-2008, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Binnie Bombs 33

I am sorry but Kissell gets defended on this board like he is some genuis ... he has one job to focus on and that is UD Basketball ... he isn't even at a school where he has to juggle multiple major programs.

BB33, you show your age and ignorance. Mind you, "ignorance" is not an insult. It is a term describing lack of knowledge.
When TK took over as AD, UD had success in Men's Basketball and on a smaller scale, Football. There was nothing else to speak of and Men's Basketball was on the decline as the game was advancing past Donaher, Frericks, et al. When TK came in, he cleaned house. Who survived the cleaning? Mike Kelly, because he demanded excellence from his teams and knew how to win. Some mistakes were made, most notably the hiring of JOB as Men's Basketball Coach. Unfortunately, a high profile mistake that cost us in many ways beyond the basketball court. When I started at UD 18 years ago, a guy living across the hall was UD's first scholarship men's soccer player. Volleyball scholarships? That suggestion would have brought a roar of laughter.
As Smitch mentioned, look at where we are now. I say 'we' as in "We Are UD." 'We' are not just Men's Basketball. To say that TK has "one job to focus on" is an insult to a couple hundred student athletes. Yes, Men's Basketball is the fuel that powers the athletic machine, but the efficiency of that machine has grown by leaps and bounds under TK's leadership and is turning out some very successful and very competitive teams and individuals.
I suggest focusing your arguments on the few short years of UD Men's Basketball firsthand knowledge that you possess because as soon as you expand your argument, your ignorance (i.e. lack of knowledge) is very evident.

I suppose I could have sent this as a PM, but there are surely others on this board who could benefit from the same advice.

Flyer'95 · #81 07-14-2008, 05:02 PM

Kissell has done well with some other sports. No doubt. And he is to be commended for that. But this is a basketball school. It always has been, and hopefully, always will be. Though it's getting hard to call us a 'hoops school' when we haven't won an ncaa tourney game in 18 years. But saying that kissell did well at raising the profiles of other sports doesn't preclude someone else from having been able to do the same in that span of time...while getting better results on the court.

Last year's schedule was the perfect schedule. If we'd have gotten to a measely 10-6 in our conference we would have been in. The reasons we didn't and whether or not we should have been invited anyway have been well documented. I just don't see why there seems to be such a huge departure from TK's previous scheduling philosophy considering that had we not been so unlucky with injuries and a flubug, we were looking at a VERY good seed.

And make no mistake, the difference is pretty big.

American was a challenger for their conference.
Loyola md was a top four contender and had finished above .500 the previous 2 years.
Holy cross was a home and home with a team coming off two consecutive 20 win seasons.
Toledo was coming off of three consecutive .500 plus seasons
Akron was a great team and a mac contender.
Louisville and Pitt were obviously great games.
High point was a dog. But close to a .500 dog.
SMU was a dog as well.
Coppin state was a dog.

We play six absolute DOGS this year. I don't think we can overcome the weight of their records unless we are flawless and go 12-4ish in conference. And going 12-4 in conference won't be easy when we're preparing for it by playing a bunch of creampuffs.

Binnie Bombs 33 · #82 07-14-2008, 05:11 PM

Flyer Fanatic ... you are right, I haven't been around as a fan forever and you are right in saying that I may have dissed some athletes saying they "arent as important"

But in reality they arent, I have friends on other teams and they know this and they love basketball because it gives them all the nice things they have uniform and gear wise.

But it is ignorance on your part to say that another person could not do the same things with those small programs and beef up the basketball program. With all the extra money UD has gotten by beefing up tuition and enrollment I am pretty sure that those smaller athletic programs have benefited from the monitary enhancement as well, it is a different world now in college sports. 0 tourny wins in 18 years is not doing your job ... and I think someone could do as good of a job for the volleyball team and could maybe bring us a Ncaa tournament win for basketball, um lets say ... once a decade.

Either way he is not doing his job and I think it is ignorance on half of the fans on this site to defend a guy who has not brought one win in the tournament in almost two decades.

Furio · #83 07-14-2008, 05:12 PM

Since joing the A10 UD has gone post season 6 times before last season

The NIT years UD went 11-5 ,9-7, and 10-6 in A10 play.

The NCAA years UD went 11-5, 14-2, 12-4 in A10 play.

UD could have won 2 additional games last year (say LaSalle and GW) and still may not have gotten a bid if they did not advance any further in the A10 tourney.
10-6 in the A10 historically has meant the NIT for UD.

Dirty Sanchez · #84 07-14-2008, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Chris R

I think you also accurately summed up why other teams have no ambitions of playing AT the Arena.

That is why we have to get passed the impression that losing to us at the Arena isn't a quality loss. I'm sure last year Tennessee very well thought they could leave Xavier with a loss, but they probably were not worried that it would be construed as a bad loss. I'm sure that is why they didn't have a problem scheduling the game. I don't think we garner the respect yet. We haven't won an NCAA tournament in 19 years, I guess we can't expect respect with that track record. We are mostly bias in the fact that we believe we are a top program. We aren't even close based on the "on the court" facts.

longtimefan · #85 07-14-2008, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic

When TK took over as AD, UD had success in Men's Basketball and on a smaller scale, Football. There was nothing else to speak of and Men's Basketball was on the decline as the game was advancing past Donaher, Frericks, et al. When TK came in, he cleaned house. Who survived the cleaning? Mike Kelly, because he demanded excellence from his teams and knew how to win. Some mistakes were made, most notably the hiring of JOB as Men's Basketball Coach. Unfortunately, a high profile mistake that cost us in many ways beyond the basketball court.

I know you are aware of this, but the way you stated it, it could be confusing - TK did not hire JOB. Just wanted to clarify that for those younger and less knowledgeable posters.

longtimefan · #86 07-14-2008, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Furio

UD could have won 2 additional games last year (say LaSalle and GW) and still may not have gotten a bid if they did not advance any further in the A10 tourney. 10-6 in the A10 historically has meant the NIT for UD.

If UD had gone 10-6 in the A-10 last year they would have been a lock for the NCAA based on their non-conference success. I don't know anyone locally or nationally who disagrees with that. I heard several commentators say UD needed only one or two more wins to get in.

Bill McPeek · #87 07-14-2008, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by longtimefan

If UD had gone 10-6 in the A-10 last year they would have been a lock for the NCAA based on their non-conference success. I don't know anyone locally or nationally who disagrees with that. I heard several commentators say UD needed only one or two more wins to get in.

I happen to believe that you are 100% correct. That is why I still have nightmares about BRob missing those free throws at the end of the LaSalle game, a game we had won not once, but twice! Our fate rests with what we do in conference play and the A-10 tournament. We solve all problems by just winning!

Furio · #88 07-14-2008, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by longtimefan

If UD had gone 10-6 in the A-10 last year they would have been a lock for the NCAA based on their non-conference success. I don't know anyone locally or nationally who disagrees with that. I heard several commentators say UD needed only one or two more wins to get in.

I would agree with you but after the NIT selection committee gave us a 3 seed I lost confidence in the whole selection committee process. I think they still would have given us the shaft. Two additional wins making UD a 1 seed in the NIT.

longtimefan · #89 07-14-2008, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Furio

I would agree with you but after the NIT selection committee gave us a 3 seed I lost confidence in the whole selection committee process. I think they still would have given us the shaft. Two additional wins making UD a 1 seed in the NIT.

I don't mean to argue, but I see no way UD would have been left out of the NCAA with a 23-8 record, a third place finish in the A-10 (important), wins over second place Temple and fifth place St Joe's, an RPI in the 20's, wins over Pitt and Louisville, 7-3 in our last 10 (important), and possibly an even better finish in the A-10 Tourney since we would have had a better seed and avoided X longer. The NIT Selection Committee is much more subjective than the NCAA. We think the NCAA is bad, but the NIT is even worse. If you had heard the Committee Chairman the past couple years, you wouldn't believe it. He talked about who you wouldn't want to play in terms of seeds. He talked more about how good a bunch of old coaches thought you were than your accomplishments on the court. They might as well put Billy Packer on the committee.

TD Flyer · #90 07-14-2008, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by UACFlyer

TD, with all due respect, I would like to see evidence of a statement (or even a suggestion)to the effect that it was UD's intent to schedule "six home-and-home games annually, all with teams in the big six conferences".

UAC, I don’t have that info on my hard drive, and I really wouldn’t know where to start to locate it. You are noted for your outstanding research, so perhaps you can find out why we dropped Miami two years ago.

Let’s look at it logically. Miami is one of our oldest rivalries, a highly respected school, both academically and athletically, a close neighbor with a history of a good relationship, and always draws well because of the large number of their fans living in the area. For all of the above, they should be and probably are our most intense rival after Xavier. Why would we drop them from our schedule? Very simple, because we thought we could get six higher rated schools to play home and home games. My recollection that the goal was to get six games with big six schools.

Ironically, Miami may be our best home opponent this year.

skip69 · #91 07-14-2008, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by tman

What the heck is this supposed to mean--What do we do in the mean time---turn the station untill march------I LOVE COLLEGE BASKETBALL-----
I have tickets--I wanna see games--real ones. This is My team....

And if what you say is true---why couldn't you schedule all BCS--because-----Quote--if the team is good enough blah blah blah.

You have to realize that scheduling is important to making the NCAA. Sure you HAVE to do well in conference--but again if you want to participate in the greatest event is sports you have to follow the rules--and they are--

Who you beat.
Who you lost too.
Where did you play.

If you schedule your program with disregard to these rules---you disqualify yourself from participation---sans winning your conference tourny. Why would a person do this? How does this help your position?

Do you wanna see the benglas play an indoorfootball team all year---how interesting is that?

Would you watch and root for the reds if they played
louisville bats all year--WOULD YOU PAY TO SEE THAT?---how unintersting is that.

Would you pay good money to see the Devils skate against Fort Wayne.

This isn't college basketball.
The nations best college basketball fans---are not witnessing college basketball--if they are --its a very low class of div one ball.

I thnk its important to consider the entire body of work as it pertains to Ted and Basketball.
Sure Dayton was down a bit----you cant keep UD ball down that low---not even Ted can do that--its bigger than Ted---considering support arena etc.

Under captain Ted
The students got bored and left.
The newspapers have turned against UD.
WSU looks to be on national TV Twice while UD = Zero.
The schedule is among the worst in all college basketball(home and away).
All past rivals have gone on to bigger and better things and refuse to play us.
The men have NEVER won a single NCAA game.
The ladies have NEVER seen a single invite to the NCAA.

Come on----please

Yep, TMAN, I love UD and want to see decent games, too! BB33 and you have been leading the charge here mostly and I fully agree (guess I'll be crucified as well).

How can UD increase the Seating Program fees and later "offer" this schedule? WOW, I'm about ready to go to several more WSU games and give away some of my Non Conf home games. I'd trade with some WSU fans, but why would they? Guess I'll have to travel to Chicago to see a decent game this year (except for "X" of course).

Since I'll be in my grave by the time we have a decent home schedule AND win an NCAA game, I'd opt to play some decent teams (gee, just stick to some mid majors like us would be a vast improvement). I want to see competitive games for my money. Otherwise, it is not only valueless, but we seem to have a tendency ourselves to play to the level of the competition, hence WSU can be as exciting to watch.

Everyone has pretty much split on whether a weak or strong Non Conf schedule makes it easier to get to the Dance. My opinion has always been that you gotta play some bigger programs to toughen up and get some confidence before the conference schedule begins (even though I really don't consider the A10 to be a marquee league that you need to prepare for ... if you are a good program, that is!!!).

18 years and counting. Wanna bet this is the 19th year? I actually believed that we could have been good enough to get there this year, but this schedule makes it impossible unless we win the conf tourney.

Flyer 86 · #92 07-14-2008, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by rollo

1) The home schedule is horrible.
2) We should have at least 2 more road games v. any big name school.
3) I wanted to be proven wrong so that it could be demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that Kissell laid an egg in scheduling this season. If 6-10 teams like ours (mid-major...dohhh) out there are loaded with ACC, Big East and SEC teams including a home game or two, and we aren't one of them, then Kissell has some explaining to do. Fact is, though, that these schedules rarely if ever exist. I'm not sure all the examples you gave prove much as SBU and St. John's stink (and have for years) and VCU isn't in a top conference. Point is, though, looking at Ohio U's schedule, at least one team out there is trying to pull the right strings.

This schedule is going to put alot of us to sleep. For many of the match-ups, I'm sure the halftime show will bring more applause than the game. And if we're lucky, cracking 100 pts will happen more than once. I'm not happy with it but honestly believe that Kissell busted his rear end yet couldn't convince a big school to (a) come here or (b) get us a date there.

I've sat in Kissell's office and spoke with him at length about the program and left feeling pretty darn good about it. I've had lunch with Ass't AD Tim Wabler and left feeling the same way (he paid!). James Brothers is a contortionist when it comes to working with season ticket holders. One thing I will say about our AD and his assistants is that they are good...they're hard workers with a vision for the program. What many of our reactionary fans don't realize is that in doing their jobs, they have to clear more hurdles than Edwin C Moses and it isn't as easy (do-able) as picking up the banana phone and calling out someone's mother.

i'm sure they work hard, and the home schedule will put us (well you guys - since i'm in new york, watching over internet) to sleep. i'm sure this is covered in scheduling philosophy thread... but isn' t this the schedule that gets us to 24-25 wins, but more importantly we hope well enuf and not taxed (like with pitt and UL) going into last years A10.

i'm not sure we need the bigs here this year. let's finish top 2-3 in the A10, make some noise.

then we can talk big dogs, respect and whatever else in 09 and 10. perhaps gregory and tk feel cheated, and this is (fairly smart, considering past experience) their answer to get in. however u add it up, gotta win 10 or 11 in the A10

Binnie Bombs 33 · #93 07-14-2008, 10:07 PM

If people sat down and thought about it ... 18 yrs with no wins in the Ncaa tourny ... how does he still have a job.

So what if I say someone should be fired ... after 18 years or very little success and none of the ultimate goal of winning an actual Ncaa game ... why should we keep him around?

I have a hard time believing that this guy still has a job!! Seriously!!

Then when we have a chance to step up to the next level after going to the NIT and getting quality opponents and making more money than we have in 4 years ... we sell out for an extra home game and put together slop! I am sorry, it sucks, it is a regress.

Don't give me this that someone couldn't AD the other teams as well as Kissell ... I just want to win one freaking Ncaa game ... I have followed UD basketball for 6 years now, I don't know how he made it through the other 12 ... how has he survived?? Shake it up, someone new please or at least stay committed to your scheduling philosophy and stop flip flopping like an idiot every year!

Someone tell me this logic ... 3 home and home series with the MAC ... 3!! How do you expect me to believe that traveling to 3 MAC school's home court is good for UD?

HOW do you schedule a home and home with Akron when you KNOW THEY WILL GRADUATE 5 SENIORS in the second year you play them? Why is Akron not a one and done visit to UD Arena.

HOW do you schedule a home and home with Toledo and not have BRIAN ROBERTS PLAY IN TOLEDO. How about giving back to one of the all-time greats by letting him play at his home! That has to be why we scheduled a home and home with Toledo ... how do you have no NEGOTIATING LEVERAGE with Toledo to tell them, the first game will be in Toledo and then you can have a two year series with us.

HOW DO WE NOT HAVE LEVERAGE OVER THE MAC????? THIS IS JUST ONE EXAMPLE ... EXPLAIN TO ME WHY WE HAVE TO BEG THE MAC FOR HOME AND HOME SERIES!!

You wonder why we havent won an Ncaa tourny game in 18 years ... and unless we play flawless b-ball and win 24 of our 31 games ... how the hell do we make it?

How does he continue to get a pass with no results? How do the people of Dayton tolerate mediocrity so easily for this squad? Why would you spend thousands of dollars to go watch that home court schedule? Wanna bet there is only one sell-out for the whole season?

I am sorry but I want us to be great ... not settle for excuses and not get results, for the money we pay him, he should not sleep until he gets top 10 conference teams ... or even at the minimum 6-10 in top conferences ... ahhhhhhhhhh!

Avid Flyer · #94 07-15-2008, 12:45 AM

Why would you be crucified, you are expressing your opinion without swearing or casting hate toward TK. What tman and bb33 don't seem to under stand is that they would be much better received if they left their personal attacks out. As some have suggested they do have some valid points which are all too often lost in the venomous attacks. Opine away, just keep the personal attacks, slander and swearing out.

Originally Posted by skip69

Yep, TMAN, I love UD and want to see decent games, too! BB33 and you have been leading the charge here mostly and I fully agree (guess I'll be crucified as well).

How can UD increase the Seating Program fees and later "offer" this schedule? WOW, I'm about ready to go to several more WSU games and give away some of my Non Conf home games. I'd trade with some WSU fans, but why would they? Guess I'll have to travel to Chicago to see a decent game this year (except for "X" of course).

Since I'll be in my grave by the time we have a decent home schedule AND win an NCAA game, I'd opt to play some decent teams (gee, just stick to some mid majors like us would be a vast improvement). I want to see competitive games for my money. Otherwise, it is not only valueless, but we seem to have a tendency ourselves to play to the level of the competition, hence WSU can be as exciting to watch.

Everyone has pretty much split on whether a weak or strong Non Conf schedule makes it easier to get to the Dance. My opinion has always been that you gotta play some bigger programs to toughen up and get some confidence before the conference schedule begins (even though I really don't consider the A10 to be a marquee league that you need to prepare for ... if you are a good program, that is!!!).

18 years and counting. Wanna bet this is the 19th year? I actually believed that we could have been good enough to get there this year, but this schedule makes it impossible unless we win the conf tourney.

The Chef · #95 07-15-2008, 07:10 AM

Why would skip feel like he might get "crucified?" Well, b/c everywhere in the media and the internet people mistake criticism for personal attacks. It happens on this board everyday, including to tman. If more people weren't so sensitive (and didn't show a profound lack of confidence in what they know, quite frankly) people wouldn't take these criticisms so personally. The fact is that I don't read any ill intent in tman's comments. What I do read is a concern for UD athletics.

Note this isn't a defense to tman's postion. I disagree with it. But, it is a defense to tman's right to express his viewpoint however he sees fit. tman thinks TK choices are the problem. That isn't a personal attack, and anyone who thinks it is hasn't really heard a real personal attack. tman may have an agenda to see TK ousted, but it's not because he hates TK. He isn't taking shots at TK as a person or at his family or anything like that. He has directed his attacks on how he perceives the athletic department is and has been run.

Does he do so with facts? Hard for me to say. I know no more than anyone. But, if you have facts that refute the point he's making, let's stick to those instead of being dismissive or calling him names. Sticking with the facts (or just plain ignoring him) will be the most effective way to turn tman into what you think he is. Calling him out will do nothing.

Now, with BB33 and the swearing, we have means to deal with that.

Off the soap box.

udflyerhoops2 · #96 07-15-2008, 07:19 AM

BB33 and Tman have (as long as I've been on this site) always provided passion that so few posters on udpride ever have. While both may have some anger management issues to work through, I wouldn't change their fervor for anything. So many people post on here the same stuff over and over with no personality whatsoever. I wish more posters had that passion. There are so many here who have graduated from UD or have more stock in UD than I do. So many of my opinions rub you the wrong way because you care about all the sports at UD. I know many of you, when you can, go to soccer, baseball, softball, football games too. I don't. I don't care about those sports at UD. They, IMO, are helping to keep UD basketball at the same level as the rest of the athletics programs at the U.

As for TK and his philosophy of mediocrity, it pains me to see year after year these non conference schedules containing so few upper level opponents. The past two years have been IMO much better. Pitt/Louisville and Pitt/UNC were great improvements in stature of opponent but not in results. A few years back we played Duke (Coach K said that UD was exactly the type of team they expected to play in the first couple of rounds in the NCAA) only because Gary Williams reneged. Outside of those positive spikes our non early tournament schedules have flatlined.

I am sorry if some people get offended by my next statement but here it is.

I hate the fact that TK cares so much about making sure the other sports thrive. I hate the fact that we have to play so many bad teams at home because we have to help the U pay for all those cheerleaders. I think it is terrible that we have to help pay for womens' (or men's for that matter) Rowing or crew or whatever they call it. So many of the AD's (opinion following) in higher rated conferences pay for those other activities with the money generated by their teams' appearances in the NCAA tourney or in a bowl game. Bottom line is success pays the bills. I believe that if TK would be more forward thinking and let some of the other activities "suffer" for a while and concentrate only on making this basketball team the best team in Ohio, the money would start rolling in and he could start putting it into the other activities.

I know he's in a tough position. I know that none of these things I've suggested can happen with the current structure in place (title IX, and whatever other rules he must follow...)

Thanks to Chef for taking the correct perspective on dissenters.

rollo · #97 07-15-2008, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by udflyerhoops2

I hate the fact that TK cares so much about making sure the other sports thrive. I hate the fact that we have to play so many bad teams at home because we have to help the U pay for all those cheerleaders. I think it is terrible that we have to help pay for womens' (or men's for that matter) Rowing or crew or whatever they call it. So many of the AD's (opinion following) in higher rated conferences pay for those other activities with the money generated by their teams' appearances in the NCAA tourney or in a bowl game. Bottom line is success pays the bills. I believe that if TK would be more forward thinking and let some of the other activities "suffer" for a while and concentrate only on making this basketball team the best team in Ohio, the money would start rolling in and he could start putting it into the other activities.

Thanks to Chef for taking the correct perspective on dissenters.

1st: If UD were ever to attempt to move to a bigger conference, which may be soon if rumors become fact, they will look at ALL of your sports and ALL of your facilities. Kissell knows this and it is a main reason why we have a new baseball diamond, softball field and crew facility. It's why we need the volleyball team to continue their success and need to get our soccer teams back into the NCAA's. Kissell is not short-sighted. He's looking out for UD's current and future interests in athletics.

2nd: Chef is the man!

THirt · #98 07-15-2008, 07:46 AM

I think part of what I dislike about the so-called "passion" displayed by the 2 posters mentioned above is the ignorance, short-sightedness, and rudeness that goes along with it.

To wit, it seems that the only criteria to judge the AD at Dayton is whether or not the men's basketball team wins an NCAA game. I was not aware of that. I suppose that yes, if that is the singular criteria, then TK shouldn't have a job.

How about a couple brief rebuttals? It's difficult to argue with someone who won't answer a direct question. I don't understand why it is bad to play a better Akron team at home, then play them on the road the following year, when you have a better chance at collecting a decent road win. That seems smart to me.

I'll admit it would have been better to play Toledo on the road last year for BRob's sake, but it isn't just about "leverage." It's about what works for both teams.

When this is described as "begging" the MAC for series, it isn't accurate, and to me, it makes me ignore any decent points the person may have tucked away somewhere.

BB33, you earlier said it was bad that UD has only had one top 10 team to the Arena in like 18 years. Please, please, I'm asking. Why would a team like Texas or Georgetown or Duke or UK or UNC or Memphis or Kansas come to UD Arena?

NCkevi · #99 07-15-2008, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by THirt

I think part of what I dislike about the so-called "passion" displayed by the 2 posters mentioned above is the ignorance, short-sightedness, and rudeness that goes along with it.

I agree - passion, regardless of whether or not I agree with you is great.

However, once you have to start making things up (see tmas post on the call between TK and the Michigan State AD) you lose credibility when you have to resort to lies to justify your opinion.

Stick to opinion and facts and avoid lies and personal attacks that have nothing to do with the discussion and no one will 'crucify' you

Chris R · #**100** 07-15-2008, 08:34 AM

Its simple really. If you want others on this forum to consider your thoughts rational, well thought out, and deserving of discussion, acting like a 12 year old when giving those thoughts is why your opinions are not well received. Twelve year olds do not understand tone, respect, tempo, diction, and maturity. It just comes out in a rush of volcanic diarrhea.

If you want to see me close accounts, just give it a little more time. Passion is nice. I encourage it. Dissenting opinion is nice. I encourage it. Sucking pacifiers and screaming the loudest and making your presence a personal crusade for self absorbency is not. If you act like a child, that's exactly how you'll be treated. Those few members who cannot seem to keep a conversation elevated, enlightening, and respectful even in times of bitter disagreement do so because they are more infatuated with themselves than with making a salient point.

We make room for dissenting opinion here. We do not for self promotion, pre-pubescence, and thread wars to see who can scream the loudest and make the most outrageous comment. If you must use all of those aforementioned tools to feel a part of this process, then I suggest your open your wallet, start a personal blog, and write sweet nothings until your fingers go numb.

Perhaps you dont like the standard UD basketball is meeting, but I can assure you, you will not like the standard I set even more. Its a non-negotiable standard, and I wont lose a wink's sleep if Im obligated to start chucking accounts.

We're all people. If you do not treat others and speak of others -- even in disagreement -- like you wish to be treated, then that tells me you just aren't ready for prime time.