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  #201  
Old 09-28-2017, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by GoFlyer View Post
Also, any word on how Arizona is responding re Miller to the charges against Richardson?
Not answering the question I know, but I am definitely suspicious of Richardson's recruiting at Xavier. In particular, with a couple of the New York kids he pulled to Xavier: Tu Holloway and Mark Lyons especially. They should have to vacate some wins including their home victories against Dayton....

retroactively sorta, kinda ending that embarrassing streak of futility in the Queen City!
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  #202  
Old 09-28-2017, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
Do you think all these folks declared these cash payments as income on their tax returns? Think Al Capone.
This sounds like a crime for the acceptance of money, not the person paying it.

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
This becomes a federal violation when it crosses state lines. Most of these recruits are going to schools and taking visits in states other than their own.
You're already assuming it's a crime, I'm still trying to convince myself of what the crime is.

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
There was talk this morning on Mike & Mike where it was said a way to get this resolved is to finally pay players.

Well lets use human nature here. You yourself know that if you are making $45k wouldn't you like to make $60k if you could? If you make $60k wouldn't you like to make $75k?

So the NCAA allows everyone to pay players $X amount. Now the playing field is even right? Well for a short period of time, until school Y sees a 5* recruit and an associate coach has a 'way' of giving the recruit more $ to influence a decision toward coach's university. It is more than the allowable $X. So pretty soon the 'allowable amount' is just a new starting point for those great recruits to be enticed to go to those schools which did the dirty dance before.

I don't see this truly being completely solved by paying players.. .
I thought this was all supposed to go away when we started paying players. They're victims!!
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  #203  
Old 09-28-2017, 04:06 PM
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http://www.indystar.com/story/sports...lle/711098001/

"the FBI has confirmed that the NCAA doesn’t run NCAA basketball.
Shoe companies do."

"You know who let the shoe companies inside?
College presidents."

Last edited by Runnin' Rebel; 09-28-2017 at 04:08 PM..
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  #204  
Old 09-28-2017, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel View Post
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports...lle/711098001/

"the FBI has confirmed that the NCAA doesn’t run NCAA basketball.
Shoe companies do."

"You know who let the shoe companies inside?
College presidents."

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  #205  
Old 09-28-2017, 04:48 PM
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Not to offend 1%'ers here

BUT some 1%'ers may get their comeuppance soon too!

"A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon, you're talking real money."
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  #206  
Old 09-28-2017, 05:00 PM
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Msespn

Like the thought and perception MSESPN

I wonder what the folks over in the 4 letter network are beginning to think .... they have taken a few hits in the pocketbook this year. Viewership is down in Football and now the issues with BB at least the Collegiate men's game.

And the season just getting ready to head toward the starting gate.

Course, you could look at it from this positive perspective ... people will tune in to see if a coach or two gets arrested between half's or which players currently on the roaster actually play this season ....
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  #207  
Old 09-28-2017, 07:41 PM
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As predicted, the "pay the players" chorus has begun.

If this is the solution, it needs to become a business transaction. As such, there should be 1) a contract between player & school (not the coach) to protect each parties' interests; 2) a signing bonus paid based on the player's past performance (3-star Sam Miller would have commanded more upfront cash than 2-star X Williams); 3) annual reassessment of quality of service (Sam Miller's salary goes down, while X Williams' salary goes up); 4) only a portion of salary is available for immediate spending, a significant portion goes into an escrow account for disbursement at completion of service contract; 5) full federal/state/FICA taxation; 6) institution of 401K & match.

Time for everyone to grow up a little.
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  #208  
Old 09-28-2017, 07:46 PM
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And any education assistance would be subject to IRS disclosure and probably would be taxable.

Life is not fair. My mother never promised it would be.
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  #209  
Old 09-28-2017, 08:40 PM
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If you start paying players, can you fire a guy for missing FTs to win the game? I dont see why you wouldn't. And if you cant, why not? You can fire someone in any other paid profession for lack of performance.
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  #210  
Old 09-28-2017, 10:13 PM
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If the feds didn't have a locked and loaded case...they would have simply made a phone call to the NCAA to let them know they had some shifty stuff to look into.

The NCAA isn't surprised...they turned a blind eye until it became a federal offense.
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  #211  
Old 09-28-2017, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Miami, Fla is now school 7, involved with player 12.
It is hard to believe that Jim Larranaga is a cheater. Of course, I never thought that Pitino and Sean Miller were cheaters either.

And Archie probably knew what was going on at Arizona, when Archie was an assistant there.

Last edited by ud2; 09-28-2017 at 11:51 PM..
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  #212  
Old 09-29-2017, 12:00 AM
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Ray Harper to Louisville?
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  #213  
Old 09-29-2017, 12:06 AM
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I have always thought that the college sports model needs to be completely destroyed.

The athletic department and the school need to be completely separate entities.

Pay the players, give out no more scholarships for the athletes, just pay them instead. The players no longer have to attend any classes, as they really are not students. The players can be fired(released), traded, etc.

And get rid of all non-revenue sports. Each sport has to pay their own way from now on. If women's soccer and men's cross-country can't turn a profit, then they are axed.

And men's basketball gets to keep 100% of its revenue. No more using men's basketball to fund everything else.
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  #214  
Old 09-29-2017, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Pay the players, give out no more scholarships for the athletes, just pay them instead. The players no longer have to attend any classes, as they really are not students.
Then they shouldn't be representing the university - might as well create a minor league system and eliminate basketball on the college level
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  #215  
Old 09-29-2017, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
As predicted, the "pay the players" chorus has begun.

If this is the solution, it needs to become a business transaction. As such, there should be 1) a contract between player & school (not the coach) to protect each parties' interests; 2) a signing bonus paid based on the player's past performance (3-star Sam Miller would have commanded more upfront cash than 2-star X Williams); 3) annual reassessment of quality of service (Sam Miller's salary goes down, while X Williams' salary goes up); 4) only a portion of salary is available for immediate spending, a significant portion goes into an escrow account for disbursement at completion of service contract; 5) full federal/state/FICA taxation; 6) institution of 401K & match.

Time for everyone to grow up a little.
Compensation to the players is something that absolutely needs to be on the table, simply because of how much money people are making off of them. It offends the intellect when the actual drivers of the revenue are not compensated fairly, thus all the pro sports drama any time a collective bargaining agreement comes up.

The fact that the money is almost as big for the big 2 college sports, and there is NO compensation and no collective bargaining makes it hard for a lot of people to see any justice in the system.... but at the same time, the idea of just turning college players into free agent/salaried commodities is pretty gross, too.

So I like a lot of what Viperstick proposes as a more robust system of give-and-take. Maybe remove the "annual reassessment" clause, which could be an even more grotesque loophole than anything already on the books.... or, at the very least, some bare minimum "buy out" (equal to 125% of the tuition/room/board costs that would be required to complete a degree, with no requirement that that money be spent at the same institution) on top of full pay-out for all years of service completed.

Two proposed additions:

(1) Adoption of a "pool money" system, as used in the MLB draft. In the absence of a draft, all schools would get the same "pool money" per year, with penalties (to be subtracted from future years) for going over, and the ability to make a limited transfer of your unused pool money to the future, if you come up short. Details would have to be hammered out, but the upshot is that smaller schools won't be totally shut out of top tier talent, since there won't be any more "Fab Five" classes.

(2) A significant portion of all future National TV Contract Money is set aside for Performance Bonuses. Not PERSONAL performance, but team wins. Bonuses would be available for Regular Season Championships, Conference Tournament Championships, Post-Season Appearances (NCAA and NIT only), and Post-Season Wins (NCAA only). Bonuses are the same, regardless of conference, but obviously, this still favors conferences that actually advance teams in the Big Dance (while still rewarding teams who do their best and dominate in a lesser conference, which might be enough to lure a recruit who would rather star on a dominant MEAC team than ride the bench for an ACC team that's never gonna sniff the NCAA Tourney).

That is all.
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  #216  
Old 09-29-2017, 01:44 AM
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Well flyer fans might as well get ready for the inevitable, we will be the next one investigated since Alabama and Louisville are being investigated. I mean if they were paying their players and couldn't beat Dayton at home, away or neutral ya know something had to be going on right
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  #217  
Old 09-29-2017, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Scaia View Post
Compensation to the players is something that absolutely needs to be on the table, simply because of how much money people are making off of them. It offends the intellect when the actual drivers of the revenue are not compensated fairly, thus all the pro sports drama any time a collective bargaining agreement comes up.

The fact that the money is almost as big for the big 2 college sports, and there is NO compensation and no collective bargaining makes it hard for a lot of people to see any justice in the system.... but at the same time, the idea of just turning college players into free agent/salaried commodities is pretty gross, too.

So I like a lot of what Viperstick proposes as a more robust system of give-and-take. Maybe remove the "annual reassessment" clause, which could be an even more grotesque loophole than anything already on the books.... or, at the very least, some bare minimum "buy out" (equal to 125% of the tuition/room/board costs that would be required to complete a degree, with no requirement that that money be spent at the same institution) on top of full pay-out for all years of service completed.

Two proposed additions:

(1) Adoption of a "pool money" system, as used in the MLB draft. In the absence of a draft, all schools would get the same "pool money" per year, with penalties (to be subtracted from future years) for going over, and the ability to make a limited transfer of your unused pool money to the future, if you come up short. Details would have to be hammered out, but the upshot is that smaller schools won't be totally shut out of top tier talent, since there won't be any more "Fab Five" classes.

(2) A significant portion of all future National TV Contract Money is set aside for Performance Bonuses. Not PERSONAL performance, but team wins. Bonuses would be available for Regular Season Championships, Conference Tournament Championships, Post-Season Appearances (NCAA and NIT only), and Post-Season Wins (NCAA only). Bonuses are the same, regardless of conference, but obviously, this still favors conferences that actually advance teams in the Big Dance (while still rewarding teams who do their best and dominate in a lesser conference, which might be enough to lure a recruit who would rather star on a dominant MEAC team than ride the bench for an ACC team that's never gonna sniff the NCAA Tourney).

That is all.
I can't argue that any of this is unfair but if this is the way it goes it needs to be in the context of a professional "minor league" and not housed within colleges and universities.
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  #218  
Old 09-29-2017, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
It is hard to believe that Jim Larranaga is a cheater. Of course, I never thought that Pitino and Sean Miller were cheaters either.
I really have to question your judgment then.
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  #219  
Old 09-29-2017, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by NCkevi View Post
Then they shouldn't be representing the university - might as well create a minor league system and eliminate basketball on the college level
I've always been a proponent of "pros developing pros" which has been a saying around US soccer circles since the early days of Major League Soccer (MLS). As US soccer has grown up a bit they've currently morphed into a hybrid model of sorts: professional teams have created academies to develop players - many of whom do not attend college - while concurrent with that there is still NCAA soccer which supplies a number of players to MLS. I wonder if there's an opportunity for something similar in US basketball. The NBA could either establish academies or true reserve (or minor) league teams for players who are good enough to jump straight to professional basketball (and aren't interested in college) while college is still an option for players who either don't want to become a professional immediately or who maybe aren't quite ready...or maybe they just want an education.
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  #220  
Old 09-29-2017, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by NCkevi View Post
Then they shouldn't be representing the university - might as well create a minor league system and eliminate basketball on the college level
I agree, that would be perfectly fine with me.

They do not represent the university now, and they have not represented the U for a long time now. These guys are not really students. Majoring in General Studies? Give me a break.

We can still call the Dayton minor league basketball team the University of Dayton Flyers. The U will just be the team owner.

It is totally unrealistic to expect these guys to be students. If you have ever played a university-sponsored sport in college, the time demands on the athletes are outrageous: games, travel, media interviews, community-outreach events, team practices, classes, studying, weight-lifting, running/conditioning, etc.

There is very little time off. Little time to socialize like a regular student. Little time to make any spending money working a job. The spending money part of the problem might have been solved a couple years ago when the true cost of attendance scholarship was introduced.
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  #221  
Old 09-29-2017, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I have always thought that the college sports model needs to be completely destroyed.

The athletic department and the school need to be completely separate entities.

Pay the players, give out no more scholarships for the athletes, just pay them instead. The players no longer have to attend any classes, as they really are not students. The players can be fired(released), traded, etc.

And get rid of all non-revenue sports. Each sport has to pay their own way from now on. If women's soccer and men's cross-country can't turn a profit, then they are axed.

And men's basketball gets to keep 100% of its revenue. No more using men's basketball to fund everything else.
It's the NBA's fault. If they would allow HS'ers to go directly to the pros, like any other professional sport, this goes away. What's left are kids who go to school AND play basketball.
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Old 09-29-2017, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
We can still call the Dayton minor league basketball team the University of Dayton Flyers. The U will just be the team owner.
If the teams went the minor league route, I wonder if they'd play a balanced home v. away schedule!
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Old 09-29-2017, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
I really have to question your judgment then.
Oh ok, so you knew that Pitino and Miller were cheating? That's funny, I never read you post that a single time on here. Real easy to say that now, after the fact.

So tell me right now, what other current d1 coaches are cheats? I want you to post the names right now, before the FBI releases their names later as part of this investigation.
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Old 09-29-2017, 09:54 AM
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If they want to pay the players then Title 9 is destroyed, and most collegiate sports get terminated, including virtually all of women's sports.
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Old 09-29-2017, 10:06 AM
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How about 2 or 3 years of free college for all athletes after their collegiate eligibility and professional playing career is over? That way they do not have to "play school" while they are using their eligibility.

That might end the problem of hearing about unemployed former players, that can't find a job after their professional playing career is over, because they got a degree in General Studies. Let them come back to school for free and get a different degree.
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Old 09-29-2017, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I have always thought that the college sports model needs to be completely destroyed.

The athletic department and the school need to be completely separate entities.

Pay the players, give out no more scholarships for the athletes, just pay them instead. The players no longer have to attend any classes, as they really are not students. The players can be fired(released), traded, etc.

And get rid of all non-revenue sports. Each sport has to pay their own way from now on. If women's soccer and men's cross-country can't turn a profit, then they are axed.

And men's basketball gets to keep 100% of its revenue. No more using men's basketball to fund everything else.
I gave up on the NBA years ago. Now the NFL is right behind. Since I'm not into minor league sports, if college basketball goes in the tank there is nothing left. Doping will take down all the rest. The sports world is imploding. Oh well, think of all the discretionary money out there looking for a place to land.
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Old 09-29-2017, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I have always thought that the college sports model needs to be completely destroyed.

The athletic department and the school need to be completely separate entities.

Pay the players, give out no more scholarships for the athletes, just pay them instead. The players no longer have to attend any classes, as they really are not students. The players can be fired(released), traded, etc.

And get rid of all non-revenue sports. Each sport has to pay their own way from now on. If women's soccer and men's cross-country can't turn a profit, then they are axed.

And men's basketball gets to keep 100% of its revenue. No more using men's basketball to fund everything else.
What you're describing is not a college system, you're describing a minor league system of athletics where UD has decided to enter the business venture as a sponsor. UD does not own the Dayton Dragons or the Cincinnati Reds, why would UD own a minor league basketball team? Why doesn't UD already own a minor league lacross team, or a sponsor a dirt track race team?

It makes no sense. You're either a college or you're a sports team company. Sure, UD has certain business ventures but those have DIRECT tie ins with being a university such as research or student classes.

Originally Posted by Rick Scaia View Post
Compensation to the players is something that absolutely needs to be on the table, simply because of how much money people are making off of them. It offends the intellect when the actual drivers of the revenue are not compensated fairly, thus all the pro sports drama any time a collective bargaining agreement comes up.
In 2011 ABC paid 4.38 Billion (B) dollars for the rights to the Olympics through 2020, followed by an extension worth 7.75 Billion (B) dollars for the rights to the Olympics through 2032.

Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Oh ok, so you knew that Pitino and Miller were cheating? That's funny, I never read you post that a single time on here. Real easy to say that now, after the fact.

So tell me right now, what other current d1 coaches are cheats? I want you to post the names right now, before the FBI releases their names later as part of this investigation.
Literally every human being on the face of the planet including Pitino's own mother thought he was cheating, except apparently you.

Just for the record, I'll start the bidding: Calipari. He's also cheating. I'll put the odds at 1:1M.
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Old 09-29-2017, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Literally every human being on the face of the planet including Pitino's own mother thought he was cheating, except apparently you.
You all will have to forgive my naivety then, I did not think that a guy that would write a motivational, self-help book, was cheating.

Boy, what an absolute fraud Pitino is.


Last edited by ud2; 09-29-2017 at 10:56 AM..
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Old 09-29-2017, 10:39 AM
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Paying college athletes is not a solution to this type of cheating, unless you do not limit the amount they can be paid. If you do not limit the amount, then the TX, OSU, UL, Ky, UNC, etc will still dominate by under the table pay.
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  #230  
Old 09-29-2017, 10:45 AM
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Can anyone summarize this (in a paragraph or so) or point me in that direction? Everything I see is like reading a novel. I do not have time but want to get the general facts.
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Old 09-29-2017, 10:45 AM
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The idea to scrap any sport that is not self sustaining is goofy. We would have Men's BB and nothing else. Most D-1 schools would have to scrap football and be like UD with men's BB only. Women's sports, forget it. Div. II and III would be fine as they are not on the money chasing path. So at the end of the day D-1 football would have many less teams and almost all other sports would be gone save men"s basketball. All this change because some skilled BB players, are in demand.

The problem with paying a player (not counting a stipend) is that someone will always be willing to offer more and we would be right back were we are now, with $$ changing hands to get the 4-5 star player to attend a certain school.

Like the idea of a minor league similar to Baseball. those players that have dreams of the NBA and no interest in college, or have limited academic ability, could play there. The player would have a choice. Having the NCAA grow a pair would also help, as would increased ability of the NCAA to act. This would reguire a sea change thought process by the NCAA but is doable
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  #232  
Old 09-29-2017, 10:47 AM
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What Makes Anyone Think

that a cheating coach or program in an amateur system will not cheat in a professional model?
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Old 09-29-2017, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I agree, that would be perfectly fine with me.

They do not represent the university now, and they have not represented the U for a long time now. These guys are not really students. Majoring in General Studies? Give me a break.

We can still call the Dayton minor league basketball team the University of Dayton Flyers. The U will just be the team owner.

It is totally unrealistic to expect these guys to be students. If you have ever played a university-sponsored sport in college, the time demands on the athletes are outrageous: games, travel, media interviews, community-outreach events, team practices, classes, studying, weight-lifting, running/conditioning, etc.

There is very little time off. Little time to socialize like a regular student. Little time to make any spending money working a job. The spending money part of the problem might have been solved a couple years ago when the true cost of attendance scholarship was introduced.
While I was on the baseball team at UD I was also a pre-med major (biology and chemistry). There were 3 other basketball players in the pre-med major with me at the same time. There were two baseball players in the school of engineering. It is realistic to be a true student athlete at UD. The university helped us with scheduling so as to be able to make practice and games and the faculty went out of their way to provide us makeup time as well as rescheduling exams when we had to miss them for away games. It was not easy but I only know of one athlete (basketball) who quit his sport because of time constraints while I was at UD. I found that my GPA was better during the season because I realized I had to watch my time carefully. Our graduation rates at UD prove that they really do strive to recruit STUDENT athletes!
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  #234  
Old 09-29-2017, 11:01 AM
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I think a minor league and college basketball system could co-exist and is the way to go.

Let the NBA caliber players go pro, either NBA or Development league out of high school. And let the vast majority of players who will never play an NBA game get free tuition, room and board along with great training, top rate facilities and free clothes. (But Does the NBA want to foot the bill for a true minor league? It's something I don't hear the basketball writers discuss much when they talk about paying college athletes)

When you root for Dayton your team rarely gets those NBA players anyway, so I'm fine cheering on the other guys.
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  #235  
Old 09-29-2017, 11:29 AM
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And here are two other RP books.

Man, this guy had major league chutzpah to write this crap and present himself as this bastion of success.






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Old 09-29-2017, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
So tell me right now, what other current d1 coaches are cheats?
Calipari for sure. Coach K. Roy Williams. Bill Self. Boeheim. Frank Martin. Alford. Frank Haith. Huggins. Mike Anderson.

Lots more. Most, I would say.
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  #237  
Old 09-29-2017, 11:51 AM
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Or you could give each player 300k and let them pay for their education like every other student. Then their job to pay for school would be the sport they are playing. Even have a bonus program for how well they play, same as a lot of large corporations.Oh wait this wouldn't stop University A paying player G 500k....
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Old 09-29-2017, 11:59 AM
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I'd be shocked if he wrote those.
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  #239  
Old 09-29-2017, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
You all will have to forgive my naivety then, I did not think that a guy that would write a motivational, self-help book, was cheating.
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Old 09-29-2017, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by st marys View Post
I think a minor league and college basketball system could co-exist and is the way to go.

Let the NBA caliber players go pro, either NBA or Development league out of high school. And let the vast majority of players who will never play an NBA game get free tuition, room and board along with great training, top rate facilities and free clothes. (But Does the NBA want to foot the bill for a true minor league? It's something I don't hear the basketball writers discuss much when they talk about paying college athletes)

When you root for Dayton your team rarely gets those NBA players anyway, so I'm fine cheering on the other guys.
If the NBA went back to the old way of not requiring the 1 year wait, I think that would certainly help. But it is not in the NBA's interest to do that or develop a more robust minor league system. The current system gives players we'd otherwise barely heard of a bunch of exposure and hype entering into the draft.
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Old 09-29-2017, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
You all will have to forgive my naivety then, I did not think that a guy that would write a motivational, self-help book, was cheating.

Boy, what an absolute fraud Pitino is.
Wait until you learn that he probably didn't write the book!

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Old 09-29-2017, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Calipari for sure. Coach K. Roy Williams. Bill Self. Boeheim. Frank Martin. Alford. Frank Haith. Huggins. Mike Anderson.

Lots more. Most, I would say.
I'm with you, I think it would be quicker to name the one's who are not cheating. I think Bielien at Michigan doesn't cheat. Bray at ND probably doesn't. I'll have to get back with you on others...
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  #243  
Old 09-29-2017, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Calipari for sure. Coach K. Roy Williams. Bill Self. Boeheim. Frank Martin. Alford. Frank Haith. Huggins. Mike Anderson.

Lots more. Most, I would say.
Rick Stansbury, Kelvin Sampson, Scott Drew, Rick Barnes, Richard Pitino, Jay Wright, Buzz Williams...

Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
I'm with you, I think it would be quicker to name the one's who are not cheating. I think Bielien at Michigan doesn't cheat. Bray at ND probably doesn't. I'll have to get back with you on others...
With you on those two. I think Mark Few and Tom Izzo are probably pretty clean as well.
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  #244  
Old 09-29-2017, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
I'm with you, I think it would be quicker to name the one's who are not cheating. I think Bielien at Michigan doesn't cheat. Bray at ND probably doesn't. I'll have to get back with you on others...
Spike Albrecht wanted to return to Michigan for his 5th year after getting a medical redshirt his 4th year. Bielien wouldn't take him back and then tried to block his transfer to Purdue. Even though Albrecht had already graduated AND was not being offered a spot to stay.

Not saying he cheats, but just wondering how slimy college coaches are if he is the first example that comes to mind of people that don't cheat.
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  #245  
Old 09-29-2017, 02:51 PM
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I wouldn't bet on any school that gets five star players. The silence is deafening.
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  #246  
Old 09-29-2017, 02:54 PM
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The NBA should exactly copy the MLB draft. Any HS player is draft eligible, but none are allowed to sign with an agent and receive cash. They can have agents as advisors though so they are fairly represented at any negotiations with teams, they just can't get benefits from the agents. If the high school player decides not to sign, he's then committed to the college for 3 years (this would have to be an NBA rule).

It'd lead to more stars being in college multiple years, there would be less stockpiling of players at the top because if Kentucky had 4 of the top 10 kids and then they all go pro, they'd have nothing in the new class, the NBA would have more polished players from college, the few who are ready to go pro right out of high school wouldn't be held back, and the delusional who think they are ready and don't get drafted or get drafted late could still go to school.
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Old 09-29-2017, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Oh ok, so you knew that Pitino and Miller were cheating? That's funny, I never read you post that a single time on here. Real easy to say that now, after the fact.

So tell me right now, what other current d1 coaches are cheats? I want you to post the names right now, before the FBI releases their names later as part of this investigation.
Did you read anything about Louisville paying prostitutes for recruits? This is the same guy that cheated on his wife in a restaurant bathroom and then paid for her abortion. He's always been shady.
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Old 09-29-2017, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Calipari for sure. Coach K. Roy Williams. Bill Self. Boeheim. Frank Martin. Alford. Frank Haith. Huggins. Mike Anderson.

Lots more. Most, I would say.
Neither you, nor anyone else, has 100%, unassailable proof that any of those coaches are cheaters. All that exists is rumors, and you are just guessing.

If any of the coaches on your list is innocent, then you been extremely unfair to that coach(es) by unfairly besmirching his good name.

Last edited by ud2; 09-29-2017 at 03:31 PM..
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Old 09-29-2017, 03:36 PM
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No, I bet there are some people that have proof.
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Old 09-29-2017, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
And here are two other RP books.

Man, this guy had major league chutzpah to write this crap and present himself as this bastion of success.






Chapter 6: Funneling money to high school athletes and their families and other little known tactics of a great leader. Success, it is a choice.

Chapter 7: When buying hookers for your team, make sure the hookers are top notch. Instantly raise morale with inspriational leadership.

I don't understand how the NCAA could have missed this stuff.

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  #251  
Old 09-29-2017, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDuke2003 View Post
The NBA should exactly copy the MLB draft. Any HS player is draft eligible, but none are allowed to sign with an agent and receive cash. They can have agents as advisors though so they are fairly represented at any negotiations with teams, they just can't get benefits from the agents. If the high school player decides not to sign, he's then committed to the college for 3 years (this would have to be an NBA rule).

It'd lead to more stars being in college multiple years, there would be less stockpiling of players at the top because if Kentucky had 4 of the top 10 kids and then they all go pro, they'd have nothing in the new class, the NBA would have more polished players from college, the few who are ready to go pro right out of high school wouldn't be held back, and the delusional who think they are ready and don't get drafted or get drafted late could still go to school.
Let them sign w/ agent and enter draft and assume all the risk! If they aren't drafted or courted overseas, there are thousands of jobs out their waiting for HS grads. Chance are they weren't meant to be college students anyway.
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Old 09-29-2017, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDuke2003 View Post
The NBA should exactly copy the MLB draft. Any HS player is draft eligible, but none are allowed to sign with an agent and receive cash. They can have agents as advisors though so they are fairly represented at any negotiations with teams, they just can't get benefits from the agents. If the high school player decides not to sign, he's then committed to the college for 3 years (this would have to be an NBA rule).

It'd lead to more stars being in college multiple years, there would be less stockpiling of players at the top because if Kentucky had 4 of the top 10 kids and then they all go pro, they'd have nothing in the new class, the NBA would have more polished players from college, the few who are ready to go pro right out of high school wouldn't be held back, and the delusional who think they are ready and don't get drafted or get drafted late could still go to school.
Nobody is offering a freshman who has a breakout year $100K to return to Cal State. At least I don't think so. But a freshman who is considering transferring to Louisville?

I don't think the exact system works. I say let them leave any time they want to enter the minor leagues. Baseball rarely develops someone from nobody to star in a year. It's a slog. Happens all the time in basketball.
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Old 09-29-2017, 11:48 PM
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/lavar-b...154104644.html

Let's be honest, it was only a matter of time before we heard from him.
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  #254  
Old 09-30-2017, 11:34 AM
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The system doesn't necessarily need reinvented. Although there are cheats, they are in the minority. The rules simply need followed and enforced.

Go back to when schools paid for uniforms...and there wasn't big contracts for coaches and other entities to be a "nike" or "adidas" school. If you want to be a sponsor for the school, say Pepsi or Bud winning contracts and signage with UD, I can get with that. The business of athletics needs to stay with the business side of operations.

Now...you get into the coaches. Establish rules regarding outside income. At least then you can have a system in place that is a bit more enforceable. You have a coach who gets is base and bonus salary from the University. That's fine...start regulating the money they are getting from Nike, dealerships, etc. The NCAA can have in place a policy that regulates secondary income outside of what is on their W2 from their school. Start penalizing the coaches for improper acts and prevent them from carrying an NCAA license to coach once an infraction takes place.

There are measures in place to keep DI athletics "amateur". The problem is that the NCAA makes too much money in the funny money business to see that the rules are enforced or enforced fairly.
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  #255  
Old 09-30-2017, 02:21 PM
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The NCAA schools don't have to take the money/product from the shoe companies. They can pay for shoes/uniforms for their sports teams.
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  #256  
Old 10-01-2017, 12:18 AM
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Reported father's look inside AAU, Adidas and recruiting.

NYPost:
http://nypost.com/2017/09/30/father-...0k-from-rival/
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  #257  
Old 10-05-2017, 10:14 AM
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/college...043603699.html

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/roy-wil...190415866.html
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  #258  
Old 10-06-2017, 11:03 AM
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Not sure if this was mentioned yet....
What a friggin snake. Pitino should go to jail

http://www.courier-journal.com/story...ney/730771001/
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  #259  
Old 10-06-2017, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by NEOFlyer View Post
Not sure if this was mentioned yet....
What a friggin snake. Pitino should go to jail

http://www.courier-journal.com/story...ney/730771001/
Hasn't been mentioned yet...Adidas basketball shoes suck anyway.
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Hasn't been mentioned yet...Adidas basketball shoes suck anyway.
True, ask Derrick Rose
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  #261  
Old 10-06-2017, 09:52 PM
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Hmmm, maybe the Pitino Foundation. Most likely legal, just scummy as all get out.
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:29 PM
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The NCAA was set to release it's findings and penalties on UNC today, but did not due to "scheduling conflicts". Sounds like soon.
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:47 PM
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http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/c...177205461.html

Based on the source’s report that an email had been sent out by the NCAA, The News & Observer tweeted on Thursday morning that the ruling was expected to be released on Friday.

Hours after the NCAA sent that email, though, the university announced that the NCAA’s final report would not be released on Friday due to “scheduling circumstances.” UNC on Friday is set to announce a multibillion-dollar fundraising campaign, and campus events are scheduled throughout the weekend.
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Old 10-08-2017, 12:27 PM
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Leave it to ESPN to stir the pot and try to make a racial issue out of the pay for play.
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Old 10-09-2017, 02:53 AM
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Maybe sort of walking back some of my previous comments...my problem with the current college sports system is that the coaches are making millions and the TV contract is worth billions, yet we are still calling this amateur sports.

That does not jibe IMO. If this was really amateur sports, then the coaches would not be making millions and the TV contract would not be worth billions.

I do not think paying the players is a workable solution since there is Title IX, and every sport would have to receive payments, which is unaffordable.

I do not know what the answer is.

I would like to see the coaches maybe share some of the wealth with the players somehow.
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Maybe sort of walking back some of my previous comments...my problem with the current college sports system is that the coaches are making millions and the TV contract is worth billions, yet we are still calling this amateur sports.


.
I think you miss the big reason we should challenge this as amateur sports. It is not the big money to the school or the coaches rather it is the payments to the athletes.

The very idea of an athletic scholarship is antithetical to the notion of an amateur. Just because the athlete gets paid in tuition, room and board does not mean he is not getting paid. If it were an academic scholarship then we could accept the amateur status. But these athletes whether in football, basketball or lacrosse or any other sport that receive athletic scholarships are being paid for their athletic services and therefore are not amateurs but instead professional athletes. Just because the pay is low does not change the reality.
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Old 10-09-2017, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
Just because the pay is low does not change the reality.
You haven't written a tuition check recently, have you?
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  #268  
Old 10-09-2017, 01:09 PM
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I should have said relative to coaches and the school in big time sports it is low. And relative to coaches and the school in the low or non revenue sports it is very high. But challenging the equity of the business plan does not change the fact that the athletes are definitely not amateurs
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Old 10-09-2017, 01:51 PM
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So, did the NCAA put off the UNC sanctions for good or what? Scheduling conflicts shouldn't result in a week-plus delay.
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Old 10-09-2017, 04:16 PM
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Priceg75: Are you suggesting by your rhetorical question that there is collusion between the NCAA and a powerful university member? If i were a judge and you were the prosecuting attorney; the judge could rule that you are leading the reader to a particular conclusion. I am as curious as you are as to the results of the upcoming punishment to the University of North Carolina; the university, basketball program, coaches and athletes. I believe that the NCAA is no longer researching the matter and is, instead, adjusting its decision on the punishment.
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:40 PM
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Grant made a statement today.
https://t.co/iDHgFbOf0A
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  #272  
Old 10-09-2017, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
So, did the NCAA put off the UNC sanctions for good or what? Scheduling conflicts shouldn't result in a week-plus delay.
It was to be announced last Friday, and today is a holiday, so it will be one business day tomorrow.
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  #273  
Old 10-10-2017, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
I should have said relative to coaches and the school in big time sports it is low. And relative to coaches and the school in the low or non revenue sports it is very high. But challenging the equity of the business plan does not change the fact that the athletes are definitely not amateurs
It seems very non-equitable to me.

At the extreme end of the scale, you have the highest paid coaches making probably around $7? million a year vs. the players getting paid probably around $15k or $20k per year at a state school.

The coach is making 350x what the player is making.
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
It seems very non-equitable to me.

At the extreme end of the scale, you have the highest paid coaches making probably around $7? million a year vs. the players getting paid probably around $15k or $20k per year at a state school.

The coach is making 350x what the player is making.
What does the amateur student athlete have to do with the coach's pay. Teachers make $40 to $100+k a year, so should we start paying students to go to school? How about high school athletes?
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:26 PM
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Great idea, start paying students for going to school, use a sliding scale for homework turned in on time, attention in classroom activities, and of course the higher grade gets the most

Yep I want to file for my back pay......ER come to think about my days in school before college, I'd probably owe the school money.
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
It seems very non-equitable to me.

At the extreme end of the scale, you have the highest paid coaches making probably around $7? million a year vs. the players getting paid probably around $15k or $20k per year at a state school.

The coach is making 350x what the player is making.
I'm sure my company's CEO makes 100x what I make so welcome to the real world. Let's not make this something it isn't. Life isn't equitable.
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  #277  
Old 10-10-2017, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
What does the amateur student athlete have to do with the coach's pay. Teachers make $40 to $100+k a year, so should we start paying students to go to school? How about high school athletes?
Does anybody go to a school and pay to watch a student(s) take a class and study?

Uhh, I think not! Lol.

And, people do not pay big bucks to watch high schoolers play sports.

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Old 10-10-2017, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Does anybody go to a school and pay to watch a student(s) take a class and study?

Uhh, I think not! Lol.

And, people do not pay big bucks to watch high schoolers play sports.
Except in Texas for HS football or Indiana for HS basketball.

It is not about paying for view, what about income? How many billions does Harvard take in each year?
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Except in Texas for HS football or Indiana for HS basketball.

It is not about paying for view, what about income? How many billions does Harvard take in each year?
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Income? Not following.

Harvard billions? From what? The endowment? Research grants?


If football and basketball players could go pro straight out of high school, I would have less of a complaint, as things stand though, they are basically forced to play college ball for much, much less than their market value.

The NFL, and maybe less so the NBA, is getting a free ride in terms of not having to run a minor league system used to evaluate these guys before the draft, they should have to pony up.

Hard to say how much the schools are making, they all cry poor, which is very hard to believe, and the books are hard to follow/don't tell the whole story.

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Old 10-11-2017, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Except in Texas for HS football or Indiana for HS basketball.
And give me a frigging break with the stuff about Texas high school football and Indiana high school basketball.

The biggest earner in Texas hs football, Highland Park, only netted $162,000 for the year, and nothing shows up on Google about Indiana hs basketball revenue, so I highly doubt that Indiana basketball high schools are raking it in.

$162k is a drop in the bucket compared to what many NCAA d1 football and basketball schools are making.

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/hig...he-dallas-area

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Old 10-11-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
And give me a frigging break with the stuff about Texas high school football and Indiana high school basketball.

The biggest earner in Texas hs football, Highland Park, only netted $162,000 for the year, and nothing shows up on Google about Indiana hs basketball revenue, so I highly doubt that Indiana basketball high schools are raking it in.

$162k is a drop in the bucket compared to what many NCAA d1 football and basketball schools are making.

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/hig...he-dallas-area
How many college programs report that they NET $162,000? Less than 2. That $162,000 that Highland Park made net is about the same as the U of TX. If you think TX is lying, so may be Highland.

And yes, Harvard makes $3-4 Billion off interest on their endowment each year. Stanford about $2 Billion. Many others over a billion a year.

And yes, college economics are screwed up!
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Old 10-11-2017, 11:58 AM
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The real question is who is benefiting from all the college sports money being paid by the networks, shoe and equipment manufacturers and other advertisers?

Coaches and athletic administrators on all levels are huge beneficiaries. The athletes in the non-revenue sports are beneficiaries. The average student not so much. I think at a school like Ohio St, the general fund does receive some sports money but at other schools, the average student pays something to support athletics.

Most agree that there are benefits to a city by having a pro sports team in town. The real unknown is whether a similar benefit exists for a school due the exposure it receives from sports? Does it boost enrollment? Does it boost contributions? Does it boost prestige of the schools and thus making a degree from there more valuable? But even then, is it a zero sum game? Does the boosting of one school mean that another drops relatively? If the purpose of universities is to educate people, should they be boosting themselves through their efforts on the field or court rather than what they are doing to improve the education?
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Old 10-11-2017, 12:39 PM
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The following "fan-sided" article drives me nuts and makes my stomach turn. This article is a perfect example of why I believe that it is necessary to punish the accused "evil-doers" for their nefariously-minded actions involving corruption in college basketball recruiting. Do not put words in my mouth that the accused are guilty. I understand that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. However, this article goes on "blubber-busting" about how wonderful it is to have recruited a "Five-star" point guard to Alabama basketball. The article says that it was written "just two days ago". This means that the article was written after the announcement of the accused corruption in said recruit at Alabama. If the guilty are not punished severely for their actions then the NCAA community will just continue as if it was "business-as-usual". The very player that this article "blubbers" about is the player involved in the scandal. They talk about how unusual it is for a five-star recruit to end up at Alabama basketball. Yes, I ask, and how did it happen? The answer is because maybe someone c-h-e-a-t-e-d. There is not a level playing field in recruiting. The ethically-sound programs still must compete against teams not on a level recruiting plateau.

In addition, this article provides some statistics that show that basically all "five-star" recruits accept scholarships to the same group of 20 schools, year after year. Why? Is it because all "five-star" recruits love giant impersonal schools mostly located in small university-dominated towns out in the country? Not a single recruit wants something different? Or is something else happening here, endemically and systematically?

These unclean evil-doers in recruiting need to be washed clean.

https://fansided.com/2017/10/09/coll...-crimson-tide/

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...investigation/
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  #284  
Old 10-11-2017, 01:44 PM
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Oklahoma State University has received a subpoena from a New York grand jury asking for all documents and communications regarding "actual or potential NCAA rules violations" by players and coaches of the men's basketball team

http://newsok.com/article/5567594?ut...areBar-Twitter
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Old 10-11-2017, 01:51 PM
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Very few of us want or are ready for the truth behind recruiting.
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  #286  
Old 10-11-2017, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Very few of us want or are ready for the truth behind recruiting.
I can't wait for some people to act shocked and outraged about some of the stuff that may come out. There's a reason people use the phrase "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying" and the naive individuals out there are in for a shock.

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Old 10-11-2017, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
I can't wait for some people to act shocked and outraged about some of the stuff that may come out. There's a reason people use the phrase "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying" and the naive individuals out there are in for a shock.

Correct, just like Meryl Streep is "shocked" about Harvey Weinstein. What a load of crap.
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Old 10-11-2017, 05:27 PM
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You've got to be kidding! I smell a white-wash. The best way to white-wash an issue is to assign a committee to study the problem. See article below where Condoleeza Rice and several other committee members have been assigned to study the problem. Their target date to finish their study is April 2018. That's after March Madness.

No! We need those universities to receive the "death penalty', now, before the season starts. Players to be suspended, should be suspended, now, before the season starts. Coaches should be suspended, now. Universities should be told to vacate previous wins, now. If a school is banned from post-season play, they should be banned for this upcoming year. Do not prolong the issue. Scholarships should be reduced, now, for next year. An immediate withdrawal of the NCAA amenity to have a "secret scrimmage" should be revoked from those punished schools, now, as an immediate notice to all involved that the school is "on-notice".

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasket...asketball.html
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Old 10-11-2017, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
You've got to be kidding! I smell a white-wash. The best way to white-wash an issue is to assign a committee to study the problem. See article below where Condoleeza Rice and several other committee members have been assigned to study the problem. Their target date to finish their study is April 2018. That's after March Madness.

No! We need those universities to receive the "death penalty', now, before the season starts. Players to be suspended, should be suspended, now, before the season starts. Coaches should be suspended, now. Universities should be told to vacate previous wins, now. If a school is banned from post-season play, they should be banned for this upcoming year. Do not prolong the issue. Scholarships should be reduced, now, for next year. An immediate withdrawal of the NCAA amenity to have a "secret scrimmage" should be revoked from those punished schools, now, as an immediate notice to all involved that the school is "on-notice".

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasket...asketball.html
Death penalty, suspensions, vacated wins. . . executed by whom? When you say the answer to that question out loud you're realize why it won't happen.
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:05 PM
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We need a PATRIOT! Mr. Mark Allen Emmert, are you the MAN? His title is executive director and president of the NCAA.

The definition of a Patriot is someone who vigorously supports what is right and is prepared to defend it against all enemies and detractors.
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Income? Not following.

Harvard billions? From what? The endowment? Research grants?


If football and basketball players could go pro straight out of high school, I would have less of a complaint, as things stand though, they are basically forced to play college ball for much, much less than their market value.

The NFL, and maybe less so the NBA, is getting a free ride in terms of not having to run a minor league system used to evaluate these guys before the draft, they should have to pony up.

Hard to say how much the schools are making, they all cry poor, which is very hard to believe, and the books are hard to follow/don't tell the whole story.
There are at least 300 Div I colleges and at least 300 Div II colleges, plus all of your overseas players. Every year, very very few players make it in the NBA, the number even much smaller straight out of HS. Same for football.

Now, imagine the NBA and/or NFL set up a real minor league system, similar to baseball. There wouldn't be enough positions available for all the college athletes. And don't forget about all the guys who have already graduated but not good enough to currently make a roster. They will take up spots in these minor leagues to. So, significantly fewer spots available for kids coming out of HS who would never be able to afford college, probably at any level. At least an athletic scholarship provides you the opportunity to prepare for a non sport future. I couldn't care less if the value of a scholarship is significantly less than what coaches or an organization/college makes off athletics. It's your opportunity to better yourself for free. If you want to give kids a small stipend so they have a little spending money, I don't have a problem with that. But anything more and I'm very much opposed.
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  #292  
Old 10-11-2017, 11:16 PM
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Part of the problem is that it's a system which inherently makes no sense. In most corners of the world, school is school and sports are sports. They have no real relation to each other. They don't really mix all that well and yet we insist they be mixed in this country. As much as we want to pretend competing interests get along together great, it's just not reality.
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  #293  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Part of the problem is that it's a system which inherently makes no sense. In most corners of the world, school is school and sports are sports. They have no real relation to each other. They don't really mix all that well and yet we insist they be mixed in this country. As much as we want to pretend competing interests get along together great, it's just not reality.
And this is also one of the reasons the USMNT didn't qualify for the World Cup. Everywhere else in the world players are developed by professional clubs with the goal of turning them into pros. In the US we have traditionally had the HS/Select/College team model during the key development period of 15-21 years old and players don't develop. The 3 month college soccer season is a joke compared to how other countries train their players of the same age. The more players who head overseas to train full time at a younger age the better off US soccer will be in the long run until the US can fix it's development model.


Sorry for the slightly off topic rant but I'm still ticked that the US lost to T&T and won't be playing in the World Cup.
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  #294  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
And this is also one of the reasons the USMNT didn't qualify for the World Cup. Everywhere else in the world players are developed by professional clubs with the goal of turning them into pros. In the US we have traditionally had the HS/Select/College team model during the key development period of 15-21 years old and players don't develop. The 3 month college soccer season is a joke compared to how other countries train their players of the same age. The more players who head overseas to train full time at a younger age the better off US soccer will be in the long run until the US can fix it's development model.


Sorry for the slightly off topic rant but I'm still ticked that the US lost to T&T and won't be playing in the World Cup.
The US plays soccer? Just slightly kidding, it's just painfully boring sport to watch, imo. But congratulations to Trinibad and Tobasco, they are hot. Lol
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
There are at least 300 Div I colleges and at least 300 Div II colleges, plus all of your overseas players. Every year, very very few players make it in the NBA, the number even much smaller straight out of HS. Same for football.

Now, imagine the NBA and/or NFL set up a real minor league system, similar to baseball. There wouldn't be enough positions available for all the college athletes. And don't forget about all the guys who have already graduated but not good enough to currently make a roster. They will take up spots in these minor leagues to. So, significantly fewer spots available for kids coming out of HS who would never be able to afford college, probably at any level. At least an athletic scholarship provides you the opportunity to prepare for a non sport future. I couldn't care less if the value of a scholarship is significantly less than what coaches or an organization/college makes off athletics. It's your opportunity to better yourself for free. If you want to give kids a small stipend so they have a little spending money, I don't have a problem with that. But anything more and I'm very much opposed.
As do all of you, I have many acquaintances who either chose to, or simply couldn't go to college, yet they are very successful. Some are in fields where they essentially became self-made accountants, engineers, etc. They could've chosen college, run up massive student loans, and then spent the first 10 years of their careers paying them off...but they chose a different path...and made it work. It's what you do. None of us should feel entitled, least of all grade school or high school athletes who (and whose parents) choose to dedicate all their resources to specializing in something (a sport) that has a limited lifespan after which they find themselves not able to speak or write in complete sentences. College should not be a guarantee, even if you can run a 4.2 forty or have a 44" vertical. But big $$ says it is. As for basketball, in my opinion nothing short of the NBA dropping the college requirement (or equivalent) is going to cure the NCAA's ills.
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Mad Props to Radar For This Totally Excellent Post:
Gazoo (10-12-2017)
  #296  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
As do all of you, I have many acquaintances who either chose to, or simply couldn't go to college, yet they are very successful. Some are in fields where they essentially became self-made accountants, engineers, etc. They could've chosen college, run up massive student loans, and then spent the first 10 years of their careers paying them off...but they chose a different path...and made it work. It's what you do. None of us should feel entitled, least of all grade school or high school athletes who (and whose parents) choose to dedicate all their resources to specializing in something (a sport) that has a limited lifespan after which they find themselves not able to speak or write in complete sentences. College should not be a guarantee, even if you can run a 4.2 forty or have a 44" vertical. But big $$ says it is. As for basketball, in my opinion nothing short of the NBA dropping the college requirement (or equivalent) is going to cure the NCAA's ills.
The NBA does not have a college requirement. Even with what they have, I am not so sure that is the biggest problem.

The reality is that if this thing ever gets "fixed", many of us will start caring a lot less of the comings and goings of the University of Dayton and that makes me sad.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
And this is also one of the reasons the USMNT didn't qualify for the World Cup. Everywhere else in the world players are developed by professional clubs with the goal of turning them into pros. In the US we have traditionally had the HS/Select/College team model during the key development period of 15-21 years old and players don't develop. The 3 month college soccer season is a joke compared to how other countries train their players of the same age. The more players who head overseas to train full time at a younger age the better off US soccer will be in the long run until the US can fix it's development model.


Sorry for the slightly off topic rant but I'm still ticked that the US lost to T&T and won't be playing in the World Cup.
I also love soccer, but the US failure to compete at the top level is way more due to the best athletes playing other sports than it is training. You can train B level athletes all you want, and they will never compete with A level guys.
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Old 10-12-2017, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I also love soccer, but the US failure to compete at the top level is way more due to the best athletes playing other sports than it is training. You can train B level athletes all you want, and they will never compete with A level guys.
Top level?

Forget about Mexico. In Concacaf the US just has to beat a bunch of practically small close to 3rd world countries. We don't even have to beat them all.

The ROI for US Soccer is beyond embarrassing.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:52 PM
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The claims handed down two weeks ago by college basketball’s antagonist, acting U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York Joon Kim, might as well be coming at chapter seven of the sport’s long and sordid history with under-the-table deals. And as earth-shattering as Kim’s announcement may be for college basketball, these operations are only a symptom of the problem. Just like with Prohibition, the problem isn't so much with the criminals as it is with the laws.

https://theathletic.com/124722/2017/...rule-breakers/
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:50 PM
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Not enough offense/not enough goals in soccer. Too boring.

2 suggestions:

1. Put a line on the field about 30 yards from the goal and call no offensive off-sides before that line is crossed by an offensive player. That would open up/stretch out the field.

2. More yellow and red cards for overly-aggressive/thug defenders.
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