Alex Carmona - John Calipari

[Gem City]

I just watched the new documentary on John Calipari. ESPN made him look like a great guy but that guy is the biggest cheater and sleaze in college basketball. Look no further than the recruitment of Alex Carmona of Troy High School fame. Kid was brought here from Puerto Rico by his handler and as soon as the kid had a change of heart and wouldn't play ball the Calipari way he was shipped back to Puerto Rico never to play college ball.

There is a big story there if someone would ever dig into it.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Atlantic 10]

Originally Posted by Gem City I just watched the new documentary on John Calipari. ESPN made him look like a great guy but that guy is the biggest cheater and sleaze in college basketball. Look no further than the recruitment of Alex Carmona of Troy High School fame. Kid was brought here from Puerto Rico by his handler and as soon as the kid had a change of heart and wouldn't play ball the Calipari way he was shipped back to Puerto Rico never to play college ball. There is a big story there if someone would ever dig into it. Posted via Mobile Device

His handler was a former player at UMass, Paddia if the spelling is correct

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[C-time]

Edgar Padilla.

Whether you like Calipari or not you should at least acknowledge that 30 for 30 was another great tool in his recruiting pitch for prospective players.

[steve]

Originally Posted by C-time Edgar Padilla. Whether you like Calipari or not you should at least acknowledge that 30 for 30 was another great tool in his recruiting pitch for prospective players.

While I'm no big fan of him his biggest issue early on was he transcended time......It simply was not okay 25 years ago for a young,slick, unproven coach to be incredibly brash and ultra confident..The guy hadn't won a game and said what he intended to do and did it..Now, you have plenty of 14-15 year old kids being idolized by adults, getting college offers, and dictating the rules to an extent ...

[Gem City]

It fits ESPN's agenda that the college system is unfair.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Gem City]

Edgar Padilla was/ is one of Calipari's unofficial talent scouts. "One" being the key word. No one really knows what's in it for these talent scouts but it doesn't smell right.
Posted via Mobile Device

[moville]

John Chaney, where are you when we need you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6jU...1z7eGVa0BWm1Xi

[Canonball]

Originally Posted by moville John Chaney, where are you when we need you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6jU...1z7eGVa0BWm1Xi

Classic.

[C-time]

I don't understand some people's hatred of Calipari. Is it because you think he is the only person who might be cheating? If that is your argument every single coach out there is walking as close to the line as they can, and if you don't believe that you are simply being naive.

Do I think Calipari has a lot of connections and uses them to his advantage? Yes. Could he possibly have broken some NCAA rules? Sure. As the saying goes "If you're not cheating, you're not trying!"

If Calipari wants to move to Dayton for a "retirement" job in a few years I would gladly take him as long as he keeps getting recruits.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by C-time I don't understand some people's hatred of Calipari. Is it because you think he is the only person who might be cheating? If that is your argument every single coach out there is walking as close to the line as they can, and if you don't believe that you are simply being naive. Do I think Calipari has a lot of connections and uses them to his advantage? Yes. Could he possibly have broken some NCAA rules? Sure. As the saying goes "If you're not cheating, you're not trying!" If Calipari wants to move to Dayton for a "retirement" job in a few years I would gladly take him as long as he keeps getting recruits.

From what I know regarding Calipari, the AAU/BigShots tournament circuit, recruits, and the funneling of money to him via family members...it would make you sick. I have close personal contact with people who have close ties to all of this and get accurate info. the big business of college basketball drives it and the real money comes from the funneling of college players to certain agents for the pro contracts. Not the money from getting kids to their school...but rather getting the big money once the kids go pro...and there aren't too many kids that funnel kids to the pros season after season.

Is he the only one that does it? Nope. He is a sleaze, no matter how you shake it.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Lets see, Calipari had two national championships wiped clean; first at UMass then again at Memphis and some think he's good enough to coach here at Dayton unbelievable, he shouldn't be aloud to coach at any college let alone Dayton. Tells ya a lot about some fans who would take him in a heart beat with his track record of NCAA violations.....but he's not alone.

Calipari has never had a national championship vacated. Umass lost in the first game of the Final 4 that was vacated in 1996. Memphis lost in the Championship game to Kansas in 2008 and that was vacated. If you're going to be critical at least get your facts right.

Originally Posted by shocka43 From what I know regarding Calipari, the AAU/BigShots tournament circuit, recruits, and the funneling of money to him via family members...it would make you sick. I have close personal contact with people who have close ties to all of this and get accurate info. the big business of college basketball drives it and the real money comes from the funneling of college players to certain agents for the pro contracts. Not the money from getting kids to their school...but rather getting the big money once the kids go pro...and there aren't too many kids that funnel kids to the pros season after season. Is he the only one that does it? Nope. He is a sleaze, no matter how you shake it.

At least you both can admit that he's not the only one cheating.

Ask yourself this question. If UD had somehow cheated and gotten caught for something that would cause the NCAA to vacate the 2014 trip to the Elite 8 would you honestly feel any differently about it. You still got to go to Memphis and you still have all the great memories from that tournament run. The NCAA can't take that away from you just like they can't take away the memories from the 1996 Umass and 2008 Memphis runs. They can take away a banner but who really cares about that 25 years from now.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by C-time Calipari has never had a national championship vacated. Umass lost in the first game of the Final 4 that was vacated in 1996. Memphis lost in the Championship game to Kansas in 2008 and that was vacated. If you're going to be critical at least get your facts right. At least you both can admit that he's not the only one cheating. Ask yourself this question. If UD had somehow cheated and gotten caught for something that would cause the NCAA to vacate the 2014 trip to the Elite 8 would you honestly feel any differently about it. You still got to go to Memphis and you still have all the great memories from that tournament run. The NCAA can't take that away from you just like they can't take away the memories from the 1996 Umass and 2008 Memphis runs. They can take away a banner but who really cares about that 25 years from now.

YES absolutely, I want Dayton to win but not at any cost like some on here want. Just in case you missed it Anthony Grant didn't get his top choice for Head Assistant....that tells you where the admins position is on coaches who violate NCAA rules even if its only a perception.

There is NO WAY ever Dayton would hire the likes of Calipari or a few other NCAA violators.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[Avid Flyer]

Yes C-time I was wrong on the title being vacated but it wasn't just his final four appearance. Memphis had to vacate all 38 regular season games and the 5 NCAA games so while it wasn't the championship game it was a lot more...so if you want to correct me at least tell the whole story.

If you have no problem with a sleazeball coaching college kids thats on you.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...ur-erasedagain

[C-time]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer YES absolutely, I want Dayton to win but not at any cost like some on here want. Just in case you missed it Anthony Grant didn't get his top choice for Head Assistant....that tells you where the admins position is on coaches who violate NCAA rules even if its only a perception. There is NO WAY ever Dayton would hire the likes of Calipari or a few other NCAA violators.

I realize that is the direction UD chooses to take, and I realize that's why Donnie Jones didn't get hired. I respect that point of view which you share with them to follow the rules, but it's hard for me to care much about the NCAA rules when they barely/inconsistently enforce them.

In the end I want UD to win games and go deep in the NCAA tournament every year no matter what it takes. If UD were to somehow end up with a vacated Final 4 trip I would still be happy it happened til the day I die.

JUST WIN BABY!!!!

[Columbia Blue]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Just in case you missed it Anthony Grant didn't get his top choice for Head Assistant....

OK I'll bite .. who was AG's top vetoed choice?

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by C-time They can take away a banner but who really cares about that 25 years from now.

Apparently you didn't see the reaction from Memphis fans on his return to their city. Believe me they care and will care another 25 years from now. But glad you are showing your true colors not many would admit they'd take him as their coach.

[Avid Flyer]

Comparing Brian G and Archie they both came in as unkowns and took the program to a higher lever. Brian and his wife became entrenched in the community and it was apparent they loved it here and would have stayed the course had he not made some critical errors along the way.

Archie came with a whole different approach, not as easy to get to know and neither he nor his wife embedded themselves in the community. It was as if they were leaving the door open for the eventual move without having to say any farewells.

As with OP Archie saw Dayton as a great stepping stone to his dream job. He did well with what he had but wasn't all that great a recruiter, but was masterful with getting his players to buy into his system.

While Brian wanted Dayton to be the big job till MU opened up Archie was just marking time. But statements like "I'll be here as long as they want me" runs hollow when he left as he did. Brian was sincere, Archie was not.

Both made their impact on the program; Brian stumbled at his next gig, while we will have to wait and see how Archie does with a bigger gig.

John Miller made the statement Dayton was too hard to recruit for; for the short term AG and staff have steadied the ship and have it ready to sail.

Won't take long for either to make or miss their mark. If I were to gamble I'd put my money on AG.

[MikeF]

Originally Posted by C-time Ask yourself this question. If UD had somehow cheated and gotten caught for something that would cause the NCAA to vacate the 2014 trip to the Elite 8 would you honestly feel any differently about it. You still got to go to Memphis and you still have all the great memories from that tournament run. The NCAA can't take that away from you just like they can't take away the memories from the 1996 Umass and 2008 Memphis runs. They can take away a banner but who really cares about that 25 years from now.

I work with a number of OSU graduates, most of them as you might expect being pretty big football fans. A few of them went to New Orleans for the 2011 Sugar Bowl which OSU won over Arkansas, but the win was later vacated. While all of them said they're disappointed the win was vacated and wish OSU didn't face the scandal it faced, they also said vacating the win after the fact in no way changed their memories of the trip. "Who cares what a record book says? I still had a blast and I watched my team win."

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by C-time Ask yourself this question. If UD had somehow cheated and gotten caught for something that would cause the NCAA to vacate the 2014 trip to the Elite 8 would you honestly feel any differently about it.

Yes. I would.

Every time I would comment on the trip/run some fan from some other school would tell me we did it while cheating. Then I would remember that I was ****ed that I watched a program that was cheating to get where they wanted to go.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by shocka43 Yes. I would. Every time I would comment on the trip/run some fan from some other school would tell me we did it while cheating. Then I would remember that I was ****ed that I watched a program that was cheating to get where they wanted to go.

Like I said when I wear my dayton hat and someone yells, go flyers, I smile and feel proud. If we cheated then they'd yell cheaters and I wouldn't feel proud, that's if I still wore the hat. Thank God C-Time is in the majority. Go flyers

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by C-time I don't understand some people's hatred of Calipari. Is it because you think he is the only person who might be cheating? If that is your argument every single coach out there is walking as close to the line as they can, and if you don't believe that you are simply being naive. Do I think Calipari has a lot of connections and uses them to his advantage? Yes. Could he possibly have broken some NCAA rules? Sure. As the saying goes "If you're not cheating, you're not trying!" If Calipari wants to move to Dayton for a "retirement" job in a few years I would gladly take him as long as he keeps getting recruits.

I wouldn't want him, or - actually now that I'm thinking about it- it nauseates me to think about "coach Cal" ever representing UD. Not him, not a brother or even a second cousin at this point...
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[shwag33]

Originally Posted by C-time I don't understand some people's hatred of Calipari. Is it because you think he is the only person who might be cheating? If that is your argument every single coach out there is walking as close to the line as they can, and if you don't believe that you are simply being naive. Do I think Calipari has a lot of connections and uses them to his advantage? Yes. Could he possibly have broken some NCAA rules? Sure. As the saying goes "If you're not cheating, you're not trying!" If Calipari wants to move to Dayton for a "retirement" job in a few years I would gladly take him as long as he keeps getting recruits.

I agree... I actually believe him when he says he tries to do whats best for the kids. His job is to get them in the NBA and he does that, in turn it helps his career. Seems like a win win.

It's funny people say they wouldn't want anyone near coach cal, coaching datyon... when he's probably archie's biggest mentor outside of his family.


He's no better or worse than any of the other top head coaches.... just maybe more honest about how much he really cares about the kids getting an 'education'.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by shwag33 I agree... I actually believe him when he says he tries to do whats best for the kids. His job is to get them in the NBA and he does that, in turn it helps his career. Seems like a win win. It's funny people say they wouldn't want anyone near coach cal, coaching datyon... when he's probably archie's biggest mentor outside of his family. He's no better or worse than any of the other top head coaches.... just maybe more honest about how much he really cares about the kids getting an 'education'.

This is is great summation of why I don't dislike Calipari.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by C-time This is is great summation of why I don't dislike Calipari.

He got 2 schools put on NCAA probation. Almost all coaches get zero schools put on probation.

Vacated wins and losses, loss of scholarships, being shamed for cheating, etc. He has a checkered past.

It is very hard to believe that he did not know about what was going on with Camby and Rose. Head coaches seem to know about everything that is going on under their watch.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by ud2 He got 2 schools put on NCAA probation. Almost all coaches get zero schools put on probation. Vacated wins and losses, loss of scholarships, being shamed for cheating, etc. He has a checkered past. It is very hard to believe that he did not know about what was going on with Camby and Rose. Head coaches seem to know about everything that is going on under their watch.

But Pitino didn't know about the strippers!!!!!!!!

I'm not going to argue with you because anyone who has read this thread realizes that most of that stuff just doesn't bother me that much.

[shwag33]

Originally Posted by ud2 He got 2 schools put on NCAA probation. Almost all coaches get zero schools put on probation. Vacated wins and losses, loss of scholarships, being shamed for cheating, etc. He has a checkered past. It is very hard to believe that he did not know about what was going on with Camby and Rose. Head coaches seem to know about everything that is going on under their watch.

If Rose went to Duke.... nothing would have came of it. The ncaa would have went away with their tail between their legs. They seriously had nothing and still don't... I can't believe what they were allowed to do without any real proof of anything.

The camby situation is a little different, he may or may not have known, but that happens all over the ncaa not just from calipari. I hate UK, but i wanted him to stick it to the blue bloods before he was one.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by ud2 Head coaches seem to know about everything that is going on under their watch.

With a couple of exceptions:

Slick Rick Pitino (and strippers)

Dean and Roy (which class you talking about coach?)

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by C-time I don't understand some people's hatred of Calipari.

Uh, Memphis?

[C-time]

Originally Posted by Jeff Uh, Memphis?

But what is so wrong that happened at Memphis? They tried to limit the damage after they knew Calipari was leaving. They made a national championship game and were able to go and cheer for their team. I would be ecstatic if UD got to the Final 4 and the NCAA said UD cheated a few years later.

I know I'm not "Mother Theresa" but I can guarantee I would have fun if UD made it to the Final 4.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by C-time But what is so wrong that happened at Memphis? They tried to limit the damage after they knew Calipari was leaving. They made a national championship game and were able to go and cheer for their team. I would be ecstatic if UD got to the Final 4 and the NCAA said UD cheated a few years later. I know I'm not "Mother Theresa" but I can guarantee I would have fun if UD made it to the Final 4.

At least we now know what the C stands for in C-time. Fortunately you are in the minority on rooting on a cheater.

[OSU Flyer]

Was Carmona committed to Dayton and then Memphis came in? I need some refreshing on this story

[Gem City]

He was verbaled to Memphis when Padilla had Carmona enrolled in Troy with a "host" family. He later moved in with an assistant coach and then committed to UD. That is when Padilla flew to Dayton and had him shipped back to Puerto Rico. He never played college ball.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Avid Flyer]

Lets see, Calipari had two national championships wiped clean; first at UMass then again at Memphis and some think he's good enough to coach here at Dayton unbelievable, he shouldn't be aloud to coach at any college let alone Dayton. Tells ya a lot about some fans who would take him in a heart beat with his track record of NCAA violations.....but he's not alone.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by Gem City I just watched the new documentary on John Calipari. ESPN made him look like a great guy but that guy is the biggest cheater and sleaze in college basketball. Look no further than the recruitment of Alex Carmona of Troy High School fame. Kid was brought here from Puerto Rico by his handler and as soon as the kid had a change of heart and wouldn't play ball the Calipari way he was shipped back to Puerto Rico never to play college ball. There is a big story there if someone would ever dig into it. Posted via Mobile Device

Alejandro Carmona is fairly well known, at least by those who follow Pan Am basketball. Rick Pitino actually coached him in the 2015 Pan Am games when he took the job as the coach of the Puerto Rico National Team for some strange reason.

Kind of an interesting read....

http://tdn-net.com/sports/local-spor...jandro-carmona

[AC91]

I actually don't mind Cal. he essentially wins by understanding the rules of the game and being honest about it. I have a much harder time with the likes of Roy Williams who can hide behind some perceived rosy image of an institutuion and be a part of the BS that went on there for so long. Cal does not ever try to pretend to be so,mething he isn't. And I believe now thathe is part of a program that kids really want to be a part of, he doesn't have to play along the edges of the rules. once they allowed one and does, his job became relatively easy. And as a basketball coach, I understand all of the talent, but he essentially has a new team every year and i am amazed at how he canget them playing together so consistently.

[SeasonTicketFan]

The 30 for 30 glossed over the Memphis situation. During the season, the university knew Rose was ineligible and did nothing. Man at the top of the program knew it. Coach moves on and university gets probation and wins vacated. 30 for 30 brought it up but never made it important. It was. They knew!

Wright State was punished for hiring Ohio State assistant Biancardi.

[shwag33]

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan The 30 for 30 glossed over the Memphis situation. During the season, the university knew Rose was ineligible and did nothing. Man at the top of the program knew it. Coach moves on and university gets probation and wins vacated. 30 for 30 brought it up but never made it important. It was. They knew! Wright State was punished for hiring Ohio State assistant Biancardi.

They might have had suspicions, but in the end there was never proof he didnt take the test. (As far as I'm aware) Even if they suspend him in the middle of the season, most likely the result is the same; they just don't go as far.

[superfan99]

Whether you like or dislike Calipari, or think he did or did not do anything wrong...I am surprised that people are not only defending "cheating" in general, but going as far as mocking other posters with "Mother Theresa" or "you must be a better human being than me" if they argue that cheating is wrong.

Based on what I am reading...Avid most likely IS a better person.

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by shwag33 They might have had suspicions, but in the end there was never proof he didnt take the test. (As far as I'm aware) Even if they suspend him in the middle of the season, most likely the result is the same; they just don't go as far.

They didn't need proof once Memphis admitted they used an ineligible player and didn't fight it in any way.

I'm not sure the Camby situation was really Calipari's fault but the other thing they glossed over in the 30 for 30 is all the rumors about how he got Camby to go to UMass in the first place. Lots of shady rumors there too.

I don't begrudge him for embracing the one and done because a kid should be able to do what they want at that point and to be honest I think it has helped to level the playing field for mid majors. It's his recruiting methods that I think are the biggest issue. And he may well be clean now because he can get whoever he wants now but he certainly was no angel earlier in his career when it came to recruiting.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[xubrew]

In regards to Derrick Rose, not only am I rather certain that Memphis did not know about it, I'm rather certain that they had no way of knowing about it.

For starters, it is the admissions office, not the athletic department, that ultimately deals with test scores. No one in athletics can even seem them until the admissions office has validated them. Secondly, it is the Clearing House/Eligibility Center that ultimately says whether or not a player is eligible to play. The NCAA said Rose could play. So, why should Memphis be suspicious of anything?

It wasn't until January (so we're talking his second semester of college after he had already been declared eligible to play by the NCAA, not once, but TWICE) that the ETS red flagged anything. Like the IRS, the ETS runs audits and a computer red flags things that are out of the ordinary such as a huge jump in score, or in the case of Rose, him taking the exam in another city. It's my understanding that they never even suspected him of cheating. The scores were similar. The last time he took it was the highest, but it wasn't alarmingly high, and furthermore his signature matched. They just wanted to know what he was doing in another city.

So, they asked him. Rose didn't respond. They tried asking him again and said that if he didn't respond he ran the risk of having his score invalidated. Rose didn't respond. By this point it was May. When the ETS invalidates a score, they notify every place the student requested the score be sent to, which in this case included Memphis and the NCAA Clearing House. Until that happened, no one had any idea that he was ineligible. Because, well, he WASN'T ineligible.

It was later discovered that the reason Rose was not responding was because the ETS was mailing everything to an address that he no longer lived at. So, if the signatures matched (and it's my understanding that they did), and had he known the ETS was trying to get in touch with him to ask about what he was doing in Detroit (he went to an NBA playoff game), then I don't think his score would have been invalidated.

Furthermore, the NCAA didn't fault Calipari at all. They also said that Memphis did not knowingly break any rules in regards to his eligibility. Hell, they themselves declared him to be eligible.

Calipari has perhaps done a lot of crap, but Derrick Rose should not be on the list. If anything, it's something people get hung up on, which is unfortunate because it's a distraction from some of the other things he may have done that were illegal.

Bottom line, if you don't actually see the test scores until they have been validated, and the NCAA tells you that he is eligible to play, then how in the hell are you supposed to know that anything is wrong??

[SeasonTicketFan]

Originally Posted by xubrew In regards to Derrick Rose, not only am I rather certain that Memphis did not know about it, I'm rather certain that they had no way of knowing about it. For starters, it is the admissions office, not the athletic department, that ultimately deals with test scores. No one in athletics can even seem them until the admissions office has validated them. Secondly, it is the Clearing House/Eligibility Center that ultimately says whether or not a player is eligible to play. The NCAA said Rose could play. So, why should Memphis be suspicious of anything? It wasn't until January (so we're talking his second semester of college after he had already been declared eligible to play by the NCAA, not once, but TWICE) that the ETS red flagged anything. Like the IRS, the ETS runs audits and a computer red flags things that are out of the ordinary such as a huge jump in score, or in the case of Rose, him taking the exam in another city. It's my understanding that they never even suspected him of cheating. The scores were similar. The last time he took it was the highest, but it wasn't alarmingly high, and furthermore his signature matched. They just wanted to know what he was doing in another city. So, they asked him. Rose didn't respond. They tried asking him again and said that if he didn't respond he ran the risk of having his score invalidated. Rose didn't respond. By this point it was May. When the ETS invalidates a score, they notify every place the student requested the score be sent to, which in this case included Memphis and the NCAA Clearing House. Until that happened, no one had any idea that he was ineligible. Because, well, he WASN'T ineligible. It was later discovered that the reason Rose was not responding was because the ETS was mailing everything to an address that he no longer lived at. So, if the signatures matched (and it's my understanding that they did), and had he known the ETS was trying to get in touch with him to ask about what he was doing in Detroit (he went to an NBA playoff game), then I don't think his score would have been invalidated. Furthermore, the NCAA didn't fault Calipari at all. They also said that Memphis did not knowingly break any rules in regards to his eligibility. Hell, they themselves declared him to be eligible. Calipari has perhaps done a lot of crap, but Derrick Rose should not be on the list. If anything, it's something people get hung up on, which is unfortunate because it's a distraction from some of the other things he may have done that were illegal. Bottom line, if you don't actually see the test scores until they have been validated, and the NCAA tells you that he is eligible to play, then how in the hell are you supposed to know that anything is wrong??

This contradicts what the NCAA investigator said.

[UDFLIES]

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan The 30 for 30 glossed over the Memphis situation. During the season, the university knew Rose was ineligible and did nothing. Man at the top of the program knew it. Coach moves on and university gets probation and wins vacated. 30 for 30 brought it up but never made it important. It was. They knew! Wright State was punished for hiring Ohio State assistant Biancardi.

I also watched the 30 for 30 and this is just wrong. The university did not know during the season. AFTER the season the NCAA brought the information to Memphis and the school admitted to playing an ineligible player.

It's odd they admitted it, because if they didn't.. they likely would have had no issues. The Ncaa cleared him twice! Why wouldnt they play him?
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[xubrew]

Originally Posted by UDFLIES I also watched the 30 for 30 and this is just wrong. The university did not know during the season. AFTER the season the NCAA brought the information to Memphis and the school admitted to playing an ineligible player. It's odd they admitted it, because if they didn't.. they likely would have had no issues. The Ncaa cleared him twice! Why wouldnt they play him? Posted via Mobile Device

Even this is a little misleading. In reality, Memphis basically admitted to playing someone who had their test score invalidated after the fact. Which, they did. But, they also stated that they did not knowingly break any rules, and the NCAA agreed.

I really don't know what else to compare it to, but it would sort of be like going to an art gallery, buying a piece of art and having it authenticated, and then a year later when you go to resell it you learn that it's actually not authentic. You did your due diligence, but still ended up getting screwed.

Had Memphis not admitted it, the same thing would have probably happened. The only way it would have been avoided would have been to get the ETS to revalidate the score. It wasn't their fault. No one really thinks of it as being their fault (well, other than those who simply want to say it's their fault). But, they were still completely S.O.L.

[Sea Bass]

I thought the anger towards Calipari would have lessened ... I guess not.

[OSU Flyer]

http://tdn-net.com/sports/local-spor...jandro-carmona

Found this article on the whole Alex Carmona situation

[Avid Flyer]

This Memphis thing is really odd. If they didn't do anything wrong then why would the NCAA vacate not just the final 4 but all 38 reg season games plus the 5 turney wins. Sounds harsh if that is all it was. Yet nothing regarding Louisville or North Carolina

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer This Memphis thing is really odd. If they didn't do anything wrong then why would the NCAA vacate not just the final 4 but all 38 reg season games plus the 5 turney wins. Sounds harsh if that is all it was. Yet nothing regarding Louisville or North Carolina

I think you answered your own question...Memphis vs Louisville or North Carolina

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer This Memphis thing is really odd. If they didn't do anything wrong then why would the NCAA vacate not just the final 4 but all 38 reg season games plus the 5 turney wins. Sounds harsh if that is all it was. Yet nothing regarding Louisville or North Carolina

Memphis used a player that had an invalidated test score. What the NCAA did was completely standard.

Louisville is still ongoing. We'll see how it comes out. They did self impose a postseason ban.

North Carolina is still ongoing as well. The problem with UNC is that it's hard to actually nail them for anything because it's more of an accreditation issue than an athletic issue.

[AC91]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer This Memphis thing is really odd. If they didn't do anything wrong then why would the NCAA vacate not just the final 4 but all 38 reg season games plus the 5 turney wins. Sounds harsh if that is all it was. Yet nothing regarding Louisville or North Carolina

Nothing on UNC academic fraud, but Richmond kids suspended for doing fantasy sports. NCAA is a joke.
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	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Gem City]

The NCAA is so frustrated with University of North Carolina that they slapped Murray State with 4 years of probation.

[UDFLIES]

Memphis' season was vacated because the NCAA found they played an ineligible player.

Louisville paid for prostitutes for recruits over a 5-7 year span (including for the main players on their championship team). This should** make the players ineligible.. if the NCAA does not vacate UofL's championship, they will never vacate a title.

There is a question out there that had Memphis not blown the title game vs Kansas, if the season would have been vacated or not.
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[C-time]

Originally Posted by UDFLIES Memphis' season was vacated because the NCAA found they played an ineligible player. Louisville paid for prostitutes for recruits over a 5-7 year span (including for the main players on their championship team). This should** make the players ineligible.. if the NCAA does not vacate UofL's championship, they will never vacate a title. There is a question out there that had Memphis not blown the title game vs Kansas, if the season would have been vacated or not. Posted via Mobile Device

Memphis simply conceded they played an ineligible player to try to limit the long term punishment from the NCAA. Calipari was already gone and they figured they should try to limit the damage.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by UDFLIES Memphis' season was vacated because the NCAA found they played an ineligible player. Louisville paid for prostitutes for recruits over a 5-7 year span (including for the main players on their championship team). This should** make the players ineligible.. if the NCAA does not vacate UofL's championship, they will never vacate a title. There is a question out there that had Memphis not blown the title game vs Kansas, if the season would have been vacated or not. Posted via Mobile Device

It would have been. Without question.

[UDFLIES]

Originally Posted by xubrew It would have been. Without question.

So UofL's should be coming down? Right?
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[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by C-time I respect that point of view which you share with them to follow the rules, but it's hard for me to care much about the NCAA rules when they barely/inconsistently enforce them.

Character is what you do when no one is looking. I guess we know what to expect of you now.

Originally Posted by AC91 I actually don't mind Cal. he essentially wins by understanding the rules of the game and being honest about it.

Maybe we could use the word "forthcoming" instead of "honest".

Originally Posted by xubrew Bottom line, if you don't actually see the test scores until they have been validated, and the NCAA tells you that he is eligible to play, then how in the hell are you supposed to know that anything is wrong??

OK, lots of "facts" out there brew, but my understanding of the situation is as follows:

1. Rose was one of the top, if not THE top, guard in the class.
2. Duke and other schools really wanted Rose.
3. Other schools mysteriously stopped recruiting the top guard in the class.
4. Cal had no issue recruiting him.
5. Somehow the top guard ended up at a mid-major.

Now you can put those 5 together and draw your own conclusion. I'm not 100% sure they're true but that's what I've gleaned from prior reading on this topic. So if you want to believe Cal is just an innocent victim here, that's fine. Plausible deniability is the key ingredient in Cal's secret sauce.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Character is what you do when no one is looking. I guess we know what to expect of you now. Maybe we could use the word "forthcoming" instead of "honest". OK, lots of "facts" out there brew, but my understanding of the situation is as follows: 1. Rose was one of the top, if not THE top, guard in the class. 2. Duke and other schools really wanted Rose. 3. Other schools mysteriously stopped recruiting the top guard in the class. 4. Cal had no issue recruiting him. 5. Somehow the top guard ended up at a mid-major. Now you can put those 5 together and draw your own conclusion. I'm not 100% sure they're true but that's what I've gleaned from prior reading on this topic. So if you want to believe Cal is just an innocent victim here, that's fine. Plausible deniability is the key ingredient in Cal's secret sauce.

Who stopped recruiting Rose prior to him signing his LOI? I'm under the impression that Duke was recruiting him to the very end. But, to be honest, I don't follow recruiting all that closely, so I could be wrong. I haven't heard anything about anyone backing off of him, though. In fact I'm pretty sure that Duke offered him a scholarship, and the only reason they "backed off" of him is because he didn't sign it. Memphis offered him one and he signed that one instead.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by UDFLIES So UofL's should be coming down? Right? Posted via Mobile Device

You're confusing technicalities with practicalities. The NCAA is a hyper technical world. UofL is not dealing with an initial eligibility issue where the rules are pretty black and white. They're dealing with a failure to monitor issue. The rules for that typically don't involve vacating wins. The best analogy I can come up with is that Memphis was driving a car without a license, but other than that was breaking no traffic laws. Louisville had a license, but was going 60 in a 25. Those are going to be handled very differently.

Can you name one example where a school used an ineligible player in any sport that did not have to vacate every single game that player appeared in? I can't.

Can you name any failure to monitor cases where teams were not having to vacate wins?? Yes. There are tons of them.

[UDFLIES]

Originally Posted by xubrew You're confusing technicalities with practicalities. The NCAA is a hyper technical world. UofL is not dealing with an initial eligibility issue where the rules are pretty black and white. They're dealing with a failure to monitor issue. The rules for that typically don't involve vacating wins. The best analogy I can come up with is that Memphis was driving a car without a license, but other than that was breaking no traffic laws. Louisville had a license, but was going 60 in a 25. Those are going to be handled very differently. Can you name one example where a school used an ineligible player in any sport that did not have to vacate every single game that player appeared in? I can't. Can you name any failure to monitor cases where teams were not having to vacate wins?? Yes. There are tons of them.

No no no, my argument is a UofL coach PAID for strippers/prostitutes for their recruits. Which would make the said recruits ineligible (receiving improper benefits), which would vacate wins.
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[flyerfanatic86]

There are a lot of posters here acting holier than thou when it comes to cheating who also make excuses for our players when they are found to have committed a violation requiring removal from the school...

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 There are a lot of posters here acting holier than thou when it comes to cheating who also make excuses for our players when they are found to have committed a violation requiring removal from the school...

That would depend if they were removed through Title IX where due process is denied or if they were caught red handed and proscuded by police. No one has a problem if due process is afforded all parties.

[jack72]

89 posts and maybe a few could be stretched to apply to UD.

[shwag33]

Originally Posted by jack72 89 posts and maybe a few could be stretched to apply to UD.

You have the option of not clicking on the thread and reading it. It's not like the thread title was UD in 2018... thread title is pretty clear.

[C-time]

It's just shocking that the University of Dayton still has this video of the Elite 8 run that still features Devon Scott and Jalen Robinson on their official youtube page. It's just so embarrassing to have those two young men associated with the University of Dayton that will not be saints in the catholic church. Maybe this video and the events associated with it should be erased from all of our memories forever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJnXnE-1jxc

[UDFLIES]

Originally Posted by C-time It's just shocking that the University of Dayton still has this video of the Elite 8 run that still features Devon Scott and Jalen Robinson on their official youtube page. It's just so embarrassing to have those two young men associated with the University of Dayton that will not be saints in the catholic church. Maybe this video and the events associated with it should be erased from all of our memories forever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJnXnE-1jxc

Which program was/is dirtier?

Dayton under Archie? UK under Calipari?
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[ud2]

Originally Posted by UDFLIES Which program was/is dirtier? Dayton under Archie? UK under Calipari? Posted via Mobile Device

Dayton under Archie. What has Cal done bad at UK?

[MrFlyerFanatic]

Originally Posted by UDFLIES Which program was/is dirtier? Dayton under Archie? UK under Calipari? Posted via Mobile Device

Players don't stay at UK long enough to make a comparison.

Archie had some players behave badly on their own time. There may be questions of how those issues were handled internally, but I don't recall any question of program behavior related to NCAA rules.

[UDFLIES]

Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic Players don't stay at UK long enough to make a comparison. Archie had some players behave badly on their own time. There may be questions of how those issues were handled internally, but I don't recall any question of program behavior related to NCAA rules.

Calipari had players behave badly on their own time at UMASS and Memphis. Camby took money from an agent on his own time and Rose maybe falsified his SAT score on his own time . Calipari has had no NCAA violations.
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	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by C-time It's just shocking that the University of Dayton still has this video of the Elite 8 run that still features Devon Scott and Jalen Robinson on their official youtube page. It's just so embarrassing to have those two young men associated with the University of Dayton that will not be saints in the catholic church. Maybe this video and the events associated with it should be erased from all of our memories forever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJnXnE-1jxc

If your point is that the those two players could have been edited out, then most would agree. However, if "the events associated with it should be erased from all of our memories forever", you're way off base. I think most people are satisfied how this was handled. It was identified, investigated, and handled. Two young men made (repeated) poor decisions, and paid for it with their scholarships.

The balance of the team rallied under a young coach to produce an exciting 2nd half of the season basketball.

Why would anyone want to "erase" that?

[TerryK_67]

Originally Posted by Jeff ..... Two young men made (repeated) poor decisions, and paid for it with their scholarships. .......

IIRC, at least one of them was very remorseful, admitted that he screwed up big time and squandered a huge opportunity at UD, finished college at a D2 school, and is quite likely a productive citizen. People can learn from mistakes and move on.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by Jeff If your point is that the those two players could have been edited out, then most would agree. However, if "the events associated with it should be erased from all of our memories forever", you're way off base. I think most people are satisfied how this was handled. It was identified, investigated, and handled. Two young men made (repeated) poor decisions, and paid for it with their scholarships. The balance of the team rallied under a young coach to produce an exciting 2nd half of the season basketball. Why would anyone want to "erase" that?

I don't think the video should be edited at all and I don't want to erase any of it. My post was intended to be sarcastic because some people act as though UD basketball is some bastion of perfection where nobody breaks any rules or does anything wrong.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by C-time I don't think the video should be edited at all and I don't want to erase any of it. My post was intended to be sarcastic because some people act as though UD basketball is some bastion of perfection where nobody breaks any rules or does anything wrong.

You're actually making our argument for us and you don't even know it.

You obviously don't think that no one at UD will ever make a mistake. That's a childish position. The question is how the university reacts to mistakes.

Here's why Rose is different from Dumb and Dumber: they were kicked off the team and the glory came in spite of them not because of them. Had we gone to the E8 because of them I would feel very icky about it.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by Gazoo You obviously don't think that no one(ANYONE) at UD will ever make a mistake. That's a childish position. The question is how the university reacts to mistakes.

If stealing from other students was the only thing those two had done to get kicked off I might agree with you. They had done numerous other things prior to that UD had managed to keep quiet. This incident simply couldn't be covered up.

To me having players committing actual crimes is much more embarrassing than breaking NCAA rules.

[UDDoug]

Those two broke more than their share of laws. The actions taken when they stole from students should have happened well before that.
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