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  #1  
Old 12-18-2017, 03:22 PM
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AG - lack of steady hand?

It's very early of course, but one thing that continues to bother me is the distribution of minutes by AG. It smacks of desperation at times.

When a guy plays 30 minutes one game and 6 the next (despite the game going OT), if I was a player I would wonder what in the wide wide world of sports is going on. Kostas exhibit A. Crosby / Crutcher exhibit B. Svoboda exhibit C.

I get riding a guy who is playing well. But to me that means a guy gets an extra 5 - 10 minutes. He doesn't go from 6 minutes to 30 minutes to 6 minutes. It's just weird.

And before you say "matchups" I don't think we have any real matchup issues on this team among the players getting minutes. No lumbering 6'10" BWS out there who can't guard anyone. Why aren't we creating matchup problems for the other team??

And yes, these players have not established themselves as being consistently deserving of the minutes. But it just seems odd to me that no one has separated himself in practice and would generally speaking get the nod when it comes to game minutes.

But maybe AG is just waiting for someone to separate himself and prove it.
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Old 12-18-2017, 03:27 PM
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Old 12-18-2017, 04:06 PM
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Overall I agree with what you are saying. This is purely a guess on my part, but I have a theory as to why we are seeing so much fluctuation in minutes.

AG knows we won't have the resume for an at-large bid. Hell we may not have an NIT resume.

But he knows that if his team can play well over 4 or 5 days in March that you can still get in. Every year some team gets hot and wins their tournament. They have no business being in the tournament, but there they are.

I think AG is trying lots of combinations to get a sense of what is working and what isn't. Take a guy who averages 15 minutes a game and give him 30+. That means someone else spends more time on the bench, but it lets him see how that player responds.

He has 20 more games to figure it out. I would expect to see a few more games of "WTF is he doing!" before he settles on a rotation for conference play. At some point he needs to settle on a rotation and let them get some chemistry.

Like I said - just a theory.
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Old 12-18-2017, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
It's very early of course, but one thing that continues to bother me is the distribution of minutes by AG. It smacks of desperation at times.

When a guy plays 30 minutes one game and 6 the next (despite the game going OT), if I was a player I would wonder what in the wide wide world of sports is going on. Kostas exhibit A. Crosby / Crutcher exhibit B. Svoboda exhibit C.

I get riding a guy who is playing well. But to me that means a guy gets an extra 5 - 10 minutes. He doesn't go from 6 minutes to 30 minutes to 6 minutes. It's just weird.
Just for fact checking, you are a little extreme here, but not too far off.

Svoboda's last 4 games: 32, 11, 27, 4
Kostas's last 4 games: 11, 37, 16, 6

Crutcher and Crosby haven't hit this extreme.

I find it a bit odd also. I don't know that it's matchups so much as player performance. Or perhaps a mistake that AG has preached over and over again that he sees repeated. I think someone has said it on here before, sometimes the only way you can get through to guys is their playing time. If they aren't playing, maybe then they'll pay attention.

But since AG isn't talking (and probably shouldn't, because that could get ugly), I don't know that we know.
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Old 12-18-2017, 04:23 PM
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Dayton Basketball

is not Youth basketball. They are playing to win the games. AG may have won the game (JC 's
28/19 notwithstanding) with his threshold decision to go small with UD's lineup against Georgia State. Georgia State had better offensive guards than did the Flyers. Bigs would have been in early foul trouble and Svoboda's defensive foot speed and lateral quickness works well against players taller than he is (he's 6' 7") but he has mega trouble guarding smaller quicker guys. Equitable distribution of minutes is not a team goal. Having the coach react with a lineup that gives UD and I'm quoting AG "the best version of ourselves" is what he is paid to do. I thought AG earned an A+ against Georgia State. I also love the way he is improving the zone defenses
and slowly but surely working toward an improved version of the man-to-man.
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  #6  
Old 12-18-2017, 04:36 PM
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Svoboda and Kostas numbers have been direct results of foul troubles. Kostas has taken himself out of games. Svoboda played more minutes because the players ahead of him were in foul trouble.

Anthony has a short bench especially on the front line.
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  #7  
Old 12-18-2017, 05:47 PM
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AG

Isn't our guy an experienced coach? There is reason to think he knows what he's doing.
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Old 12-18-2017, 06:02 PM
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I would guess that AG is going to experiment until he locks in on a starting 5 that can handle the opening tipoff and play like a D1 team.

Quite honestly, he doesn't have many options. He is trying to play to the hot-hand. He is shorthanded and has a load of underclassmen who consistently play with the inconsistency of a bingo ball.

Patience is a virtue....
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Old 12-18-2017, 06:37 PM
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Guys am I missing something here, we have an rpi of 58, sos of 2, and the 7th youngest or least experienced team in all of D1. And we're still in the hunt.
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  #10  
Old 12-18-2017, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Isn't our guy an experienced coach? There is reason to think he knows what he's doing.
That is still very much an open question for me.
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Old 12-18-2017, 07:20 PM
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Wink

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Guys am I missing something here, we have an rpi of 58, sos of 2, and the 7th youngest or least experienced team in all of D1. And we're still in the hunt.
The hunt for what?
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Old 12-18-2017, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
It's very early of course, but one thing that continues to bother me is the distribution of minutes by AG. It smacks of desperation at times.

When a guy plays 30 minutes one game and 6 the next (despite the game going OT), if I was a player I would wonder what in the wide wide world of sports is going on. Kostas exhibit A. Crosby / Crutcher exhibit B. Svoboda exhibit C.

I get riding a guy who is playing well. But to me that means a guy gets an extra 5 - 10 minutes. He doesn't go from 6 minutes to 30 minutes to 6 minutes. It's just weird.

And before you say "matchups" I don't think we have any real matchup issues on this team among the players getting minutes. No lumbering 6'10" BWS out there who can't guard anyone. Why aren't we creating matchup problems for the other team??




And yes, these players have not established themselves as being consistently deserving of the minutes. But it just seems odd to me that no one has separated himself in practice and would generally speaking get the nod when it comes to game minutes.

But maybe AG is just waiting for someone to separate himself and prove it.


Or it could be as simple as we don't know what happened in practice leading up to the game. AG could be sending players messages, work hard in practice and get more playing time? It could be a lot of things driving who plays and how much.
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Old 12-18-2017, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by UDTradition View Post
The hunt for what?
You're joking right, A10 play hasn't even started and posters have written them off. Till they are eliminated in conference play they are still in the hunt.

Who knows how they will play cone league games, some freshmen may step up, no longer freshmen come league time.

Not going to write them off till conference championship is completed
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Old 12-18-2017, 10:08 PM
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It will be interesting to see how the next third of the season plays out. Through the first third what we know is:

Suspect defense
Jordan Davis emerging
XW missing
Cunningham can dominate same or less talent
Kostas showing flashes, but lack of D
The point is unresolved.

What will AG's coaching staff do with the next ten games to develop this team?
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Just for fact checking, you are a little extreme here, but not too far off.

Svoboda's last 4 games: 32, 11, 27, 4
Kostas's last 4 games: 11, 37, 16, 6

Crutcher and Crosby haven't hit this extreme.
Crosby: 28, 23, 19, 18, 20. Followed by 8, 7. Then 16, 25, 31. That's a bit variable.

Crutcher: 26, 23, 25, 28, 24, 34, 33, 27, 18, 13. Reasonably consistent but now in the last game he has his lowest minute total of the season which is somewhat expected since Crosby played so many minutes.

But, point taken on Crutcher.


Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
Equitable distribution of minutes is not a team goal.
I love internet message boards.

WHEN DID YOU STOP BEATING YOUR WIFE ALBERTO STRASSE?!

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Svoboda and Kostas numbers have been direct results of foul troubles. Kostas has taken himself out of games. Svoboda played more minutes because the players ahead of him were in foul trouble.

Anthony has a short bench especially on the front line.
Kostas has not fouled out of a game all year. Did the rule change that allows players to carry over those extra fouls into the next game? Short of that, if he can play, might as well get as many minutes out of him as you can. Otherwise it's DNP CD.

In the games where Kostas has played the least (6, 13, 15, 11, 6 minutes) he has minimal foul trouble (2, 2, 2, 4, 2 respectively). While he may be limiting his playing time because of fouls, there's no reason for him to have played single-digit or low double-digit minutes due to fouls. AG is sitting him on the bench and not putting him back in.

In games where Svoboda has played the least (12, 8, 12, 11, 4) he has had trivial foul trouble (4, 1, 0, 1, 1).

In only 1 game is there an overlap between Svoboda playing large minutes and Kostas playing minimal minutes. Mississippi State. Otherwise no significant correlation.

I disagree that these guys are playing such low minutes because of foul trouble. Kostas is not helping his own cause for sure, but, AG is choosing to not play him after a couple of fouls. If they are that good you might as well use up the fouls. Maybe something good can happen while they're out there.

And to reiterate, no sane human being would say minutes should be equally divvied out (oy vey, what's wrong with some people ), just that the plan isn't yet abundantly clear to me. Maybe it will be soon.
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
You're joking right, A10 play hasn't even started and posters have written them off. Till they are eliminated in conference play they are still in the hunt.

Who knows how they will play cone league games, some freshmen may step up, no longer freshmen come league time.

Not going to write them off till conference championship is completed
Every team is still in the hunt by that standard.
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Old 12-19-2017, 09:37 AM
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What's your point? No team should throw in the towel at this early point of the season.
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Old 12-19-2017, 10:07 AM
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Conventional coaching decisions are to pull players as soon as they have two quick fouls. Especially when you have a thin bench. Kostas has experienced quick fouls. Other times, he has appeared overwhelmed.

Against some matchups, he has looked good, but those have not been that many.

Last edited by SeasonTicketFan; 12-19-2017 at 11:02 AM..
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Old 12-19-2017, 10:11 AM
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Regardless of how curious Anthony's substitution pattern might be, the average minutes per game of our top 9 contributors show several things:

Darrell 37 min/game
Josh 33
Xeyrius 30
Crutcher 25
Jordan 24
Trey 22
Crosby 20
Kostas 17
Matej 16

Injuries and foul trouble aside, Anthony is distributing the minutes so everyone gets development time. I think he is clearly aiming for the A10 Season. Yet he is trying to blend in enough punch to keep the W/L column palatable. It would be interesting who the crunch time minutes are going to, but that's more research than I want to take on. Other than the obvious deployment of Josh and Darrell, who are his best hope right now for stability, none of the others has fully separated themselves from the pack.

On the plus side Jordan Davis has some wow factor. On the minus side, we need a lot more out of Williams in the minutes he is playing, and we need him healthy. IMO his missing productivity cost us several wins by not being his Sophomore self. His shooting is anemic at present. Hopefully this will all come together for him by Jan 3rd.
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Old 12-19-2017, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
What's your point? No team should throw in the towel at this early point of the season.
The original post boasted that we were still in the hunt despite being the 7th least experienced team. It's an odd thing to boast about if you are applying a standard that applies to every team.

I don't expect the team to quit and I'm not giving up either. Just pointing out some goal posts are being moved.
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Old 12-19-2017, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
What's your point? No team should throw in the towel at this early point of the season.
Exactly, if for no other reason than the regular season conference champions receive an automatic invite to the NIT. Honestly, with this team, reaching the NIT should be an attainable goal. The NCAAs would be icing on the cake, but that probably only happens by winning the A10 Championship. Neither outcome is likely at this point, but that's why you play the games and strive to continue to improve.

We were all saying the UD Elite 8 season was over when we started out 1-5 in A10 conference play, so don't give up on the season yet...
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Old 12-19-2017, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
Overall I agree with what you are saying. This is purely a guess on my part, but I have a theory as to why we are seeing so much fluctuation in minutes.


.......

I think AG is trying lots of combinations to get a sense of what is working and what isn't. Take a guy who averages 15 minutes a game and give him 30+. That means someone else spends more time on the bench, but it lets him see how that player responds.

He has 20 more games to figure it out. I would expect to see a few more games of "WTF is he doing!" before he settles on a rotation for conference play. At some point he needs to settle on a rotation and let them get some chemistry.

Like I said - just a theory.
The other day it was said he went small with 4 guard/forwards to match th e other team. I'd agree with that and that was an interesting strategy.

On the TEAM Side. The guys probably look toward DD and Josh C as the go to guys. however i think we are still finding ourselves as to key baskets, shot takers, offensive "schemes" and plays when it counts. First 5 games I saw lots of looking around and less confidence. Aside from DD. And he was forcing some. But that was understandable at the time - he's the senior and he had been hot.

Five games later,things have evolved a bit. Jordan Davis is a very reliable shooter. Mr Crutcher has shown to not be reliable with shooting, and with handling the ball.

Kostas and Matej have been highly inconsistent.

Crosby may or may not be (seems to be) coming around. This team is still finding it's chemistry, and AG is watching and still trying to harness what is best for the team.

Still a big moving piece in X williams. Guy has got to be more consistent and come around for us to achieve anything meaningful this year. Guy seems to thin and not strong enough to me. He could get away with some wacky shot selection last year, with our 4 seniors present. Often, it worked out last year.

Matej may come around with passing. Landers is a very solid role or glue guy. Someone else needs to step up... frankly I am not sure who that person will be.
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Old 12-19-2017, 12:52 PM
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We are shooting FT's pretty well. Aside from Josh C and one other person.

Our FG shooting is high, aside from Crutch and Crosby and Matej. WE did rebound well last game. So there are some solid positives to build upon.

Defense needs to improve. I'd like to see Kostas come in at 15 or 12 minute mark - for defense and some offensive glass.

I'd like to see our Starters resolved soon and be Crosby, Jordan Davis (or Landers), DD, X, and Josh C. I think Landers starting might make better sense, bring Jordan off the bench.
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Old 12-19-2017, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
What's your point? No team should throw in the towel at this early point of the season.
His point is that he quoted a poster that stated we were STILL in the hunt. With everyone in the hunt that word could and should be left out. It sounds like we've accomplished something when we haven't. Nor has any other league member.
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Old 12-19-2017, 01:57 PM
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I'm in the royal minority on this, but when I see My Flyers play, and see how Grant is instilling discipline and hard work (thru minutes or lack of minutes played) as well as see the barely tapped potential of Jordan and Crutcher and Kostas, I can't help but think this team is going to kick some royal *ss in 2018-19.
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Old 12-19-2017, 01:59 PM
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The obvious point is that this team is far from finishef. My post referred to OUR FLYERS and not the entire D1 teams. This is after all the Dayton Flyers message board. To quibble over a word in my opinion is absurd.

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Old 12-19-2017, 02:25 PM
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No quibbling. Just keeping it real. Apologists are so sensitive..jeesh..
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  #28  
Old 12-19-2017, 02:46 PM
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Apologists, really, I expressed an opinion regarding my flyers whom I support, glass half or empty see it differently, that s fine but I stand by my comment, the FLYERS are STILL in the HUNT till eliminated.

The way I see it there is a great deal of talent on this team, what they lack is consistentcy and experience playing together. Go Flyers.

BTW keeping real would be acknowledgin the flyers have yet to eliminated.
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Old 12-19-2017, 03:34 PM
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I didn't quote your post, Avid. I originally did, as any moderator can attest. But I deleted it because I didn't want to upset you. But when SDF misinterpreted bcross's meaning I felt I would weigh in. The word still, in that context lends to the notion that Your Flyers have withstood something, endured something, or won something, Imo. The only thing we've endured quite frankly have been losses, so far. Seeing how the A10 is down it is my opinion that we're in the hunt for a league title. But we're not in the hunt for any other tourney. Again my opinion. So I wasn't referring to all D1 teams, just the crappy A10, where we have a chance. No biggie, but I wasn't quibbling, I was just pointing to what I thought bcross's interpretation was. And in his defense against SDF's comment that bcross was throwing in the towel.
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Old 12-19-2017, 03:43 PM
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Okay, no problem. My memory was that I and several other posters sorta threw in the towel when Archie went 1-5 in conference and I was one calling for a blackout at the next game. I learned my lesson to never count out a team till the fat lady sings. That is why I will stand by them till she does sing. Right now too early too even warm up. Other than Rhode Island is see the A10 as being open.

Will watch closely to see the team mature and play flyer basket ball. What is refreshing is to see AG not being afraid to try different strategies both on O and D.

Win or lose the next two games we all start league play with a new slate.
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Old 12-19-2017, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Every team is still in the hunt by that standard.
Depends on standard being used. To this date there are 7 D1 schools who have yet to win a game, 6 that only won 1 and 9 that have won 2. Safe to say they may not be in the hunt.
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Old 12-19-2017, 03:51 PM
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I apologize for referring to you as an apologist. Thanks for understanding my intent. Not here to pizz anyone off. I do tongue-in-cheek frequently though and I like to read both sides of the coin.
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Old 12-19-2017, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
Seeing how the A10 is down it is my opinion that we're in the hunt for a league title. But we're not in the hunt for any other tourney.
If we're in the hunt for a league title then we're in the hunt for post-season tourneys.
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Old 12-19-2017, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
If we're in the hunt for a league title then we're in the hunt for post-season tourneys.
I prefer to keep the carriage behind the horse. What I mean is winning the A10 would be a gift-horse because it appears the whole league is not tourney-worthy. Technically you're right and I realized that when I made the comment. You say high-pur-buh-lee, I say high-pur-bowl..☺
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Old 12-19-2017, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
I prefer to keep the carriage behind the horse. What I mean is winning the A10 would be a gift-horse because it appears the whole league is not tourney-worthy. Technically you're right and I realized that when I made the comment. You say high-pur-buh-lee, I say high-pur-bowl..☺
URI is definitely worth and Bonnies may be too.
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Old 12-19-2017, 05:12 PM
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Got me. Oh, the pain. Elizabeth, it's the big one!
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  #37  
Old 12-20-2017, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Crosby: 28, 23, 19, 18, 20. Followed by 8, 7. Then 16, 25, 31. That's a bit variable.

Crutcher: 26, 23, 25, 28, 24, 34, 33, 27, 18, 13. Reasonably consistent but now in the last game he has his lowest minute total of the season which is somewhat expected since Crosby played so many minutes.

But, point taken on Crutcher.
Crosby: 8, 7, 16, 25, 31, 12. Next game should be single digits to continue the pattern.
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Old 12-20-2017, 02:20 PM
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Benching guys for these really long and extended periods of times takes them completely out of the flow of the game. Archie did similar things last year with Kyle Davis and I don’t think it helps anyone. I’m not saying we should go to the hockey subs like Gregory but a more fluid rotation could help keep everyone warm and in the game
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Old 12-20-2017, 02:30 PM
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I have been a huge proponent during the BG era to play our studs (you can probably find way too many posts on the topic). The problem this year is we have 1.5 studs. I don't care how AG distributes minutes at all this year, just win.
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Old 12-22-2017, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
It would be interesting who the crunch time minutes are going to, but that's more research than I want to take on.
Slacker.

From the 2nd half 5 minute mark, to the end of the game (including OT), the following are the top 5 in seconds played: Darrell Davis, Josh Cunningham, Jordan Davis, Jalen Crutcher and Trey Landers.

Only 1 player has played in all 11 games past that 2nd half 5 minute mark ... Darrell Davis. Darrell has played 8 games from 5 minute mark to end of game. Ball State (44 seconds), Saint Marys (1 minute), and Akron (1 minute 5seconds) are the 3 games he didn't play the entire time.

Stats provided by Figstats.
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  #41  
Old 12-23-2017, 11:33 AM
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Omg Figster, I taunted you 5 days ago. You are slipping ! Thanksgiving turkey hangover?

Seems to be a correlation here. The five players who have played the most minutes in games, are the same players who play the most minutes to finish games. IMO that better change when X gets his full game back. We need a finisher like Xeyrius was last season.
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Old 12-24-2017, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I'm in the royal minority on this, but when I see My Flyers play, and see how Grant is instilling discipline and hard work (thru minutes or lack of minutes played) as well as see the barely tapped potential of Jordan and Crutcher and Kostas, I can't help but think this team is going to kick some royal *ss in 2018-19.
I royally disagree about Crutcher and the all mighty P word.

Dilly dilly
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:06 AM
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Coming out of halftime, I looked at my buddy and said, "Wagner goes on a 10-2 run to start the half." OK, it was 15-5. But it was completely evident from the way Grant prepared them at the half.

Jordan Davis and DD were shooting 1-footed fadeaways from 16 feet during warmups. Half the guys weren't even seriously warming up, just dribbling between their legs and joking around like it was a CYO game.

I'm not saying no UD coach has ever had troubling motivating the guys coming out of the locker room with a big lead (right before Christmas break).

But UD is not playing as well as we're ever going to play. We've got freshmen galore who need coaching up. We've got 100 things to ride the guys about at halftime. But they came out of the locker room looking like they had just been told they were going to be given a Christmas kegger after the game.

I don't mean to ride AG about every little thing, but I continue to be concerned.
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Old 12-26-2017, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Coming out of halftime, I looked at my buddy and said, "Wagner goes on a 10-2 run to start the half." OK, it was 15-5. But it was completely evident from the way Grant prepared them at the half.

Jordan Davis and DD were shooting 1-footed fadeaways from 16 feet during warmups. Half the guys weren't even seriously warming up, just dribbling between their legs and joking around like it was a CYO game.

I'm not saying no UD coach has ever had troubling motivating the guys coming out of the locker room with a big lead (right before Christmas break).

But UD is not playing as well as we're ever going to play. We've got freshmen galore who need coaching up. We've got 100 things to ride the guys about at halftime. But they came out of the locker room looking like they had just been told they were going to be given a Christmas kegger after the game.

I don't mean to ride AG about every little thing, but I continue to be concerned.
This is well said. The combination of a young, inexperienced roster with a head coach new to the program and college ball in general is a recipe for a 0.500 season. Growing pains would be the optimistic spin, downward slide the negative side.
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Old 12-26-2017, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Coming out of halftime, I looked at my buddy and said, "Wagner goes on a 10-2 run to start the half." OK, it was 15-5. But it was completely evident from the way Grant prepared them at the half.

Jordan Davis and DD were shooting 1-footed fadeaways from 16 feet during warmups. Half the guys weren't even seriously warming up, just dribbling between their legs and joking around like it was a CYO game.
And that tone needs to be set from day one. As a coach, if you don't set the tone and expectations from exactly day 1, you get what you allow. You can't revisit expectations mid season when it comes to focus related things. From youth to college...take care of the little things early on and the big things seem to take care of themselves.
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Old 12-26-2017, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Coming out of halftime, I looked at my buddy and said, "Wagner goes on a 10-2 run to start the half." OK, it was 15-5. But it was completely evident from the way Grant prepared them at the half.

Jordan Davis and DD were shooting 1-footed fadeaways from 16 feet during warmups. Half the guys weren't even seriously warming up, just dribbling between their legs and joking around like it was a CYO game.

I'm not saying no UD coach has ever had troubling motivating the guys coming out of the locker room with a big lead (right before Christmas break).

But UD is not playing as well as we're ever going to play. We've got freshmen galore who need coaching up. We've got 100 things to ride the guys about at halftime. But they came out of the locker room looking like they had just been told they were going to be given a Christmas kegger after the game.

I don't mean to ride AG about every little thing, but I continue to be concerned.
As concerning as this sounds- I'm still in the CAG gets the benefit of the doubt phase. Coach Grant comes across to me as someone who expects maturity & and doing it "old school" way. So I'm hoping that was a demanding coach allowing a young team to relax. But I've filed your observation away and a sincere thanks for sharing your insight.
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Old 12-26-2017, 03:12 PM
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With limited roster, inexperience and injuries, Anthony has limits how far he can push buttons, unless he is willing to gamble writing the season off. It is a tight rope walk with this roster.
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Old 12-26-2017, 05:23 PM
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Truth is, if you rely on the coach to provide this type of fundamental direction at this level, you've already lost. I'm not saying coaching should be a Laissez Faire approach, but providing rudimentary instructions on how to warm-up after the half shouldn't be a requirement. I would at least hope that this was noticed though, and instruction provided during practice time. OTOH, it's also possible Anthony, having been around the NBA for the past few years, may not be up to speed on all the things a college coach may need to do vs NBA. I'd be shocked in the NBA if coaches ever discuss warmup strategy either pre-game or post half-time. Those guys are professional and know how to handle themselves and prepare. I guess in the end, I don't know if this is a matter of expectations not being met, lack of coaching direction, or what.
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Old 12-26-2017, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
Truth is, if you rely on the coach to provide this type of fundamental direction at this level, you've already lost. I'm not saying coaching should be a Laissez Faire approach, but providing rudimentary instructions on how to warm-up after the half shouldn't be a requirement. I would at least hope that this was noticed though, and instruction provided during practice time. OTOH, it's also possible Anthony, having been around the NBA for the past few years, may not be up to speed on all the things a college coach may need to do vs NBA. I'd be shocked in the NBA if coaches ever discuss warmup strategy either pre-game or post half-time. Those guys are professional and know how to handle themselves and prepare. I guess in the end, I don't know if this is a matter of expectations not being met, lack of coaching direction, or what.
I get your point but not sure that I agree. John Wooden would go so far as to giving his players detailed instructions on how to put on their sweat socks. He didn't want any player missing minutes because of blisters...seriously. According to Coach W, he was such a stickler for pre-game prep and practice that he hardly "coached" at all during the games.

I think with a young team, and a new system et. al., paying attention to detail, every detail is probably a good thing, which includes pre-game, in-game and post-game everything.

He[[, if it worked for Wooden, who are we to argue.

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Old 12-26-2017, 06:58 PM
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In my day it was the captain and the Seniors who were expected to set the tone for warmups and practice. Although the Coach wasn't immune to nailing a straggler or two.

Of course that was the 1800's, .
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Old 12-26-2017, 10:22 PM
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It may have worked for John Wooden b/c he was talking sweatsocks to Lew Alcinder, Bill Walton, Walt Hazzard, and Gail Goodrich.

The man had to keep himself busy with something.
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Old 12-27-2017, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
It may have worked for John Wooden b/c he was talking sweatsocks to Lew Alcinder, Bill Walton, Walt Hazzard, and Gail Goodrich.

The man had to keep himself busy with something.
But it is not like JW just walked in, and the program took off. I think the socks bit and all the other minutiae likely contributed to building UCLA into a powerhouse.

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Old 12-27-2017, 06:49 AM
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Two words....Senior Leadership....
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Old 12-27-2017, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
It may have worked for John Wooden b/c he was talking sweatsocks to Lew Alcinder, Bill Walton, Walt Hazzard, and Gail Goodrich.

The man had to keep himself busy with something.
Bill Walton wasn't exactly "receptive" to Coach Wooden's ways. From what I gather, it wouldn't have mattered to JW if he was coaching JC and Moses (Malone or Heston), he was gonna make sure that his guys were prepped and practiced his way.
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Old 12-27-2017, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Two words....Senior Leadership....
Problem is we are seeing the difference between 4 Seniors last season and 1 Senior this season. DD needs more help. Crosby, Williams, Cunningham are practically Seniors at this point. Need to click it up a notch.
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Old 12-27-2017, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
But it is not like JW just walked in and the program took off. I think the socks bit and all the other minutiae likely contributed to building UCLA into a powerhouse.
Not to mention Sam Gilbert.
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Old 12-27-2017, 10:13 AM
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The correlation between how a team warms up and how they perform is exactly zero!
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Old 12-27-2017, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
The correlation between how a team warms up and how they perform is exactly zero!
No but the correlation of the amount of grabassery that goes on when the clock is not running and the amount of focus and discipline on the court is.
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Old 12-27-2017, 11:34 AM
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IDK, I remember a specific game late into Miller's third season when Scott and Robinson were seen on the bench late in the game laughing it up while the team was on it's way to a loss. A month later the team was playing in the Elite 8.

I'm not saying what Gazoo witnessed should be entirely dismissed, but within the scope of the bigger picture, it means very little.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
I'm not saying what Gazoo witnessed should be entirely dismissed, but within the scope of the bigger picture, it means very little.
It's but a single data point, not to be exaggerated or entirely dismissed.
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