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  #1  
Old 03-15-2019, 11:00 PM
Buster Goode Buster Goode is offline
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Are you surprised?

This is all too commonóget let down thinking they have a chance to win the conference tournament. We make a run every 30 years. Thatís how it goes. Wake me up in 2044. We deserve better.
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  #2  
Old 03-15-2019, 11:28 PM
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I couldn't agree with you more buster. I know its an old broken record, but hopefully this time, next year, will really arrive, and it will finally be "NEXT YEAR".

Tonight's performance was hard digest.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:31 PM
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Should we change our mascot to a Cub? Next year finally arrived for them after a century or so.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:41 PM
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Problem is, in human years, 30 year cycles might as well be 100 years. Especially if you are born right before or after a UD final four or Regional Title game. Born in late 60's, so I missed the final four, I was 14 years plus in 84; luckily Knight and company gave me a little something in 90; but then I was 32/33 for the Tulsa and DePaul deflations; and finally 44 during recent Elite Eight.

But if only counting final fours and Elite Eights, then I am hoping to be around in, like buster indicated 2044. I will be 74, so its not exactly hold you breath status.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach View Post
Problem is, in human years, 30 year cycles might as well be 100 years. Especially if you are born right before or after a UD final four or Regional Title game. Born in late 60's, so I missed the final four, I was 14 years plus in 84; luckily Knight and company gave me a little something in 90; but then I was 32/33 for the Tulsa and DePaul deflations; and finally 44 during recent Elite Eight.

But if only counting final fours and Elite Eights, then I am hoping to be around in, like buster indicated 2044. I will be 74, so its not exactly hold you breath status.
Iíll be 82. Keeping my fingers crossed that it happens sooner than that. And yes, it increases my sense of urgency to get in shape...starting on Saturday. Not yet tonight.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:34 AM
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I am going to spend part of Saturday thinking about how much money I have spent on UD basketball, and then add in the NCAA ticket purchasing. Like most of you, its well into the thousands and thousands....incredible.
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  #7  
Old 03-16-2019, 01:13 AM
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Any loss is disappointing. But if your expectations are in the right place, and you take the long view, you can accept disappointments.

I went back and found one of my posts pre-season. Not to toot my own horn, because I'm very often wrong, but because it's one that I can remember and it gives me perspective about this season. This thread was about the top 144 that the Flyers were left out of.

Originally Posted by sheg View Post
Thank you, 62. On the contrary, SDF, my glad is quite full. However, from an outsider perspective, everything I wrote there is true. I personally think the Flyers compete for a bye in the conference tournament this year.

I was just trying to proactively prevent hurt feelings around here when the Flyers aren't ranked.

Edit to add: if UD IS in this ranking, I will be impressed with the rankers' ability to see past the superficial negatives and see the real improvements in the program in the last 17 months.

It would be awfully hard to take last year's 14-17 9th place debacle, consider the above negatives, and predict a significantly better finish this year, unless you really know the team well.

We all do, and I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb to say I think most here would agree with "compete for a bye in the conference," which will mean a finish in the 3rd-6th range. If the newcomers (Toppin, Matos, Cohill, Pollicelli, and Mikesell*) contribute more than hoped, and Crutcher, Davis, Landers, and Cunningham continue to grow, this could be a very fun year indeed.
So this team exceeded MY expectations by finishing third in the conference and only one last second tip-in away from second. So I am pleased with the direction of the program.

Does that mean my expectations are too low?

Originally Posted by sheg View Post
I think UD is a top 25 team next year.

Who wants some koolaid?
I don't think so. And I stand by the post. How will you all react if/when that becomes reality next year?
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  #8  
Old 03-16-2019, 01:29 AM
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This team met my expectations, but I think they have a horrible time protecting the ball. We saw improvement over last year, but I am hoping next year is a completely different story.
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  #9  
Old 03-16-2019, 07:43 AM
Buster Goode Buster Goode is offline
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I thought this tweet sums it up best:
https://twitter.com/bonablog/status/...962878976?s=21

I donít know how anyone can disagree with this.
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  #10  
Old 03-16-2019, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
I thought this tweet sums it up best:
https://twitter.com/bonablog/status/...962878976?s=21

I donít know how anyone can disagree with this.
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Here is the Tweet, and it is soooooo true:

The Bona Blog


@BonaBlog
Following Following @BonaBlog
More
Replying to @sullymygoodname @BlackburnReview
I think if I were a Dayton fan Iíd just expect more. When you see what Bona can do with Schmidt and a very limited budget and a nothing area to recruit to, you have to ask why UD can do not just better but significantly better.


Lot's of blame to go around - just none of it makes sense to me.

My biggest disappointment is that Obi developed into the arguably the best Freshman ever at UD and it was almost like his year was wasted. Hope he comes back.
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  #11  
Old 03-16-2019, 09:15 AM
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The full context seems on. Expectations vary here, and I expect AG will be around forever, based on lower ones.

With all the advantages UD has over other A-10 programs, there certainly could be a more optimistic outlook that Flyers would become the dominant program much like Xavier was.
Ask yourselves: Do you think that Dayton will become a consistently dominant program in the A-10? ?? ! (as it should?)
Myself, I don't see that happening.

One thing I garner with great certainty about AG: He does not have forging intent. BG did not have that either, but he had above average drive and heart. Intent is a KNOWLEDGE that no matter what circumstance, success in one's endeavor is forthcoming. An individual has already achieved the relationship with his/her vision to manifest.

Very few have a link to intent, and so WILL to determine an outcome is the next best thing. I've heard a comment here that AG can close out games. I do not see a man in his element seizing the arriving moments, and developing a deterministic comportment.

AG, as I said from the start, is going to win many games each year to be among A-10's top teams. Hence, he will be the coach. I pulled myself back into his fold, as I saw the gates of heaven open up to this program this year.

The Flyers, with a myriad of obvious edges, can cut through now and then to be included in the NCAAT. That seems to be the generally accepted standard here on the forum. So to that end, fans will be rewarded by AG.

Last edited by forego1; 03-16-2019 at 09:25 AM..
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Old 03-16-2019, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by forego1 View Post
The full context seems on. Expectations vary here, and I expect AG will be around forever, based on lower ones.

With all the advantages UD has over other A-10 programs, there certainly could be a more optimistic outlook that Flyers would become the dominant program much like Xavier was.
Ask yourselves: Do you think that Dayton will become a consistently dominant program in the A-10? ?? ! (as it should?)
Myself, I don't see that happening.

One thing I garner with great certainty about AG: He does not have forging intent. BG did not have that either, but he had above average drive and heart. Intent is a KNOWLEDGE that no matter what circumstance, success in one's endeavor is forthcoming. An individual has already achieved the relationship with his/her vision to manifest.

Very few have a link to intent, and so WILL to determine an outcome is the next best thing. I've heard a comment here that AG can close out games. I do not see a man in his element seizing the arriving moments, and developing a deterministic comportment.

AG, as I said from the start, is going to win many games each year to be among A-10's top teams. Hence, he will be the coach. I pulled myself back into his fold, as I saw the gates of heaven open up to this program this year.

The Flyers, with a myriad of obvious edges, can cut through now and then to be included in the NCAAT. That seems to be the generally accepted standard here on the forum. So to that end, fans will be rewarded by AG.
You lost me with "forging intent, arriving moments, and deterministic comportments".
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Old 03-16-2019, 09:50 AM
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Bottom line:
If you wanted UD to have an exceptional basketball program, UD has the wrong hire.

A fair question: How many of you actually think that AG will create a program that rules the A-10?

If you answer 'yes' I will tell you that you are very wrong
If you answer 'no' I will ask you why Dayton should not rule
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
My biggest disappointment is that Obi developed into the arguably the best Freshman ever at UD and it was almost like his year was wasted. Hope he comes back.
This is the equivalent of Pulisic missing his first World Cup in soccer to me.
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:39 AM
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Not totally surprised

The team has had issues with ball protection, rebounding, shot selection and 3pt shooting. At times these issues have gone away to a certain extent and I think the last 2 games (one at home and one on the road) this was the case.They reverted to "the means" last nite.

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Old 03-16-2019, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
You lost me with "forging intent, arriving moments, and deterministic comportments".
Yes, the concept of 'forging intent' is beyond you for sure.
Arriving moment was last night, when after VCU lost, opportunity arrived like a surprise package at the front door. You do know what a door is, heh?

The comportment to determine was what Travis Ford had, and AG did not.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:10 AM
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I guess I have a different take on yesterday's game and season. We all are ****ed off at every loss, but UD fought hard in this game...tired at the end and I was proud of their effort...just fell short against a team that was stronger at the end of the game.

As for the season, before the season started, I would have been **** happy for an NIT appearance...so I'm **** happy!
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:11 AM
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Yikes. You guys must be fun at parties.

I was as angry as anyone last night, but let's keep things in context. Going back to the beginning of the year, how many of us were saying we expect this team to win the A10 tournament ad go to the NCAA's? Only one person can say they did. There was a poll on this website and only 1 person voted we would win the A10 tournament. Two others said we would be an at-large.

http://www.udpride.com/forums/showth...highlight=poll

THE OTHER 90% SAID WE WOULD BE NIT OR WORSE.

There are some strong opinions in here about a team that met or exceeded the expectations of 90% of the fans.

Did expectations change as the year went on? Absolutely - which is why last night was so disappointing. But this team did a lot to be proud of this year.

AG has us moving in the right direction. Last year was hard. Maybe we should have been better, I don't know. There were a lot of Freshmen and dead weight.

This year was significantly better and met my expectations, even if I was angry last night (and a little bit this morning).

Next year? My expectations are sky high. I expect next year to be the year AG puts us back on the national stage. His legacy at UD will be determined by his ability to keep us there beyond next year.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
Yikes. You guys must be fun at parties.

I was as angry as anyone last night, but let's keep things in context. Going back to the beginning of the year, how many of us were saying we expect this team to win the A10 tournament ad go to the NCAA's? Only one person can say they did. There was a poll on this website and only 1 person voted we would win the A10 tournament. Two others said we would be an at-large.

http://www.udpride.com/forums/showth...highlight=poll

THE OTHER 90% SAID WE WOULD BE NIT OR WORSE.

There are some strong opinions in here about a team that met or exceeded the expectations of 90% of the fans.

Did expectations change as the year went on? Absolutely - which is why last night was so disappointing. But this team did a lot to be proud of this year.

AG has us moving in the right direction. Last year was hard. Maybe we should have been better, I don't know. There were a lot of Freshmen and dead weight.

This year was significantly better and met my expectations, even if I was angry last night (and a little bit this morning).

Next year? My expectations are sky high. I expect next year to be the year AG puts us back on the national stage. His legacy at UD will be determined by his ability to keep us there beyond next year.
Call it frustration more than anything else. For quite some time this season we have seen a repeat of the very same issues game after game. You can see it coming during a game... so the team got to be no better than what they were at the end of December and more or less no significant growth. Did they accomplish more than some projected? Yes but could it have been more?

Anyways, we always seem to have the same result in this A10T each and every stinking year. Dominate? Kidding right? Even Archie was up-set (was it his last year here?)

Any one saying we should be in another conference is delusional, hell we can't fight our way out of this one. It doesn't matter who the players are or the coach. Blaming it on the coach is interesting since I know of 3 so far that had issues winning in this A10T thingy.

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Old 03-16-2019, 11:25 AM
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With four transfers on the bench, does anybody REALLY think the coaching staff was playing for THIS year?

Look at what they had coming in to this year:

Crutcher
Davis
Cunningham
Landers

That's it. That's the entirety of the proven talent coming in to this year.

Then you add

Toppin (supposedly was great in practice last year)
Cohill (unproven freshman)
Pollicelli (unproven freshman)
Matos (unproven juco)
Mikesell (coming off major surgeries)

If the coaching staff was playing for the post-season THIS year, they would have brought in more help. There's no way anybody in their right mind looks at the above nine and thinks it's much more than an NIT team, unless things go absolutely perfectly.

Yet the coaching staff didn't find any help for THIS year, and filled the roster with transfers. Maybe, just maybe, they're playing for NEXT year. They may as well have made an announcement about it.

And no, things didn't go absolutely perfectly. They rarely do. And we're watching an NIT team. Next year the bar is raised dramatically.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
....Next year? My expectations are sky high. I expect next year to be the year AG puts us back on the national stage. His legacy at UD will be determined by his ability to keep us there beyond next year.
Well, MNFats..... there will be injuries and obstacles along the way.... then, those will be excuses for why the sought outcome did not happen.

and on and on
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:19 PM
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I was not surprised. I was posting all last week as the seedings were starting to finalize that the one team I didn't want to see on our side of the bracket, particularly in a quarterfinal, was SLU. Just a crappy matchup for us between strengths and weaknesses.
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by forego1 View Post
Well, MNFats..... there will be injuries and obstacles along the way.... then, those will be excuses for why the sought outcome did not happen.

and on and on
I think you missed my point - for 90% of us the expectations were met. Not making excuses for this season. Absolutely could have been better. And I would be liar if I told you there weren't times I was saying "If only this or that hadn't happened". But with time to reflect, I'm happy with the season. It was progress.

And if injuries ruin the season next year, then yes, it will be a shame. Good news is we should be very deep next year. We're talking 10-11 deep. We should be able to withstand a couple of injuries and and continue to contend for an at-large.

The hope is that next year we don't need to win the A10 tourney to get in.
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Old 03-16-2019, 02:36 PM
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I was not at odds with you; I just used your post as a segue. I'm not arguing the substance of this year.

I simply have no confidence whatsoever that AG will do better than BG did in his seven years. Hey, BG did some remarkable things. He also set the stage for AM's success.
If AG gets a couple NCAAT wins during the next five seasons I can do mea culpa.
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Old 03-16-2019, 03:41 PM
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0-6 in the last 6 post season games. No. Not surprised.
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Old 03-16-2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
0-6 in the last 6 post season games. No. Not surprised.
Four of those under Archie.
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Old 03-16-2019, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Four of those under Archie.
Which goes to show that at this point there is no reason to doubt where the program is going under AG.

I guess traveling to A10 every year and taking one on the chin doesn't make you feel to optimistic when you get there.

I thought they had some run in them this year. Didn't take long to change that
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:14 PM
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For those throwing the pre-season, yes, pre-season expectations out at us, that's a flimsy defense for the shortcomings of this season.

When each of us wrote our pre-season expectations, these were projections based on limited knowledge. You should have the right to adjust expectations after seeing how good we play together or how good Toppin is. That's why you have a group of fans very disappointed at the outcome of the season. My disappointment is recognition of how good this team could really be. Whatever though -- I'm already onto next season, where my expectation is top 25 team assuming our core players are back, obviously including Obi. We are going to get crushed tomorrow night.
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by UD_Earl View Post
Here is the Tweet, and it is soooooo true:

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I think if I were a Dayton fan Iíd just expect more. When you see what Bona can do with Schmidt and a very limited budget and a nothing area to recruit to, you have to ask why UD can do not just better but significantly better.


Lot's of blame to go around - just none of it makes sense to me.

My biggest disappointment is that Obi developed into the arguably the best Freshman ever at UD and it was almost like his year was wasted. Hope he comes back.
Schmidt and Bonas should probably start beating Dayton in Olean on a regular basis before passing on program advice.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Schmidt and Bonas should probably start beating Dayton in Olean on a regular basis before passing on program advice.
Havenít we beaten them 14 out of last 15 games? We have dominated Schmidt coached teams.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by forego1 View Post
Well, MNFats..... there will be injuries and obstacles along the way.... then, those will be excuses for why the sought outcome did not happen.

and on and on
Not when you have 13 players on the roster. Totally different scenario next season.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:46 PM
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Matos, Matos, Matos. This season lived and died with his injury. When he went down our fate was sealed. With him we likely win at least 2-3 more games and sneak into the tourney. Then this thread and others like it don't exist.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:56 PM
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TA111 and Chris

I see your point but it wasn't the point of their comment.

Considering their situation and compared to ours, one unbiased outside observer would most likely see the same thing. For all UD has vs Bonnies one would think the outcomes overall would be better for UD in the league. Yes we beat them more often than not ... but when the teams play in the A10t over the period 2009-2019, the records are very similar.

UD 10-11
Bonnies 11-9 with one year (I think 2013) no record shown (vacated?)

UD has had 4 years of toast (0-1) with the last 3 being in succession
Bonnies have had 2 years (0-1)

UD had a 3-1 and a 2-1 they had a 3-0 and a 2-1 twice.

We probably have had more ups and downs then Bonnies ... yet what we have as a total program has been going steadily up-ward Sold Out games, investment in facilities, etc.

So we beat them, but .............................. hows come I don't feel all that smug about it?
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:23 PM
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What are the A10 regular season finishes and aggregate A10 records for both teams over the same period? The regular season performance is far more important than a 3-4-game league tournament.

Im guessing the resumes' are not close. I dont believe anybody has won more A10 games in the last 5-7 years than Dayton. Maybe VCU has a better winning %. Dayton has done what most would expect: win more than others in the league.
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Matos, Matos, Matos. This season lived and died with his injury. When he went down our fate was sealed. With him we likely win at least 2-3 more games and sneak into the tourney. Then this thread and others like it don't exist.

I have little doubt that his body would have/could have made a difference in a few games given the limited availability of players. But were talking about a kid that played 5 games, averaged under 4 ppg and shot around 30%. I dont think any of us really know how good he would have been last year, nor how much of a difference he would have really made other than as another body.
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
I have little doubt that his body would have/could have made a difference in a few games given the limited availability of players. But were talking about a kid that played 5 games, averaged under 4 ppg and shot around 30%. I dont think any of us really know how good he would have been last year, nor how much of a difference he would have really made other than as another body.
But in those few games he averaged just under 4 ppg and over 3 rpg in 19 mpg, showed glimpses of seeing the court pretty well, defending very well and, more importantly, giving this team 19 mpg which would have given blows to several other players.....

I don't think for a minute those stats would not have increased, as would his mpg, as he would have gotten more familiar with the system and everyone.

We saw the UD guards get taken to the woodshed way too many times and plenty probably due to tired legs and trying to avoid fouls. Add in a 6'5" athletic guard that loves to defend and he was building quite a niche with this team.
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:46 PM
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but two of those games were against coppin state and Georgia Southern. Don't get me wrong, he may have been solid - great, I'm just saying that none of us really know. I've seen too many people point to that injury as some sort of major cog, and I'm not sure any of us really know how much or how little of an impact it really had.


Its hard to deny that as nothing more than another body, his presence would have helped, and he's definitely more than just another body (Frankie I would qualify as just a body, at least last season, hopefully not moving forward); but its also doubtful that UD lost a potential 6th man of the year nominee. Truthfully, unless we we at practice often early in the season, none of use know, I know I sure don't.
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Matos, Matos, Matos. This season lived and died with his injury. When he went down our fate was sealed. With him we likely win at least 2-3 more games and sneak into the tourney. Then this thread and others like it don't exist.
Bold statements involving a player we all saw play for less than a handful of times. No doubt he would have helped, but to say the season lived and died with Matos is a bit of an overstatement. I'm excited for next season - we will be deep.
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Old 03-18-2019, 04:45 PM
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Here is where UD has been and where they may be...

2014 - NCAA
2015 - NCAA
2016 - NCAA
2017 - NCAA
2018 - No Post Season: lost season due to coaching change
2019 - NIT: 3rd in A-10 after near complete roster change from 2017.
2020 - NCAA - the "next year" scenario, but talent level may be highest it has been in years
2021 - NCAA - the "next year" scenario, but talent level may be highest it has been in years

So, if 2020 and 2021 end up as NCAA years, do you change your tune on Grant?

My view - if we make the NCAA in next 2 years, Grant was a great hire. If we miss the next two years, I agree with this thread. If we go 1-1, jury still out. Bottom line is that I like the progression in his two years and feel our talent has much improved and the true determination will be performance over next two years.

Last edited by Dogdaddy; 03-18-2019 at 04:50 PM..
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Old 03-18-2019, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dogdaddy View Post
Here is where UD has been and where they may be...

2014 - NCAA
2015 - NCAA
2016 - NCAA
2017 - NCAA
2018 - No Post Season: lost season due to coaching change
2019 - NIT: 3rd in A-10 after near complete roster change from 2017.
2020 - NCAA - the "next year" scenario, but talent level may be highest it has been in years
2021 - NCAA - the "next year" scenario, but talent level may be highest it has been in years

So, if 2020 and 2021 end up as NCAA years, do you change your tune on Grant?

My view - if we make the NCAA in next 2 years, Grant was a great hire. If we miss the next two years, I agree with this thread. If we go 1-1, jury still out. Bottom line is that I like the progression in his two years and feel our talent has much improved and the true determination will be performance over next two year.
I think the next two years need to be 2-2 NCAA. 1-2 won't get AG fired but it might be a tell tale sign that things may stay mediocre for his entire tenure.
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
but two of those games were against coppin state and Georgia Southern. Don't get me wrong, he may have been solid - great, I'm just saying that none of us really know. I've seen too many people point to that injury as some sort of major cog, and I'm not sure any of us really know how much or how little of an impact it really had.


Its hard to deny that as nothing more than another body, his presence would have helped, and he's definitely more than just another body (Frankie I would qualify as just a body, at least last season, hopefully not moving forward); but its also doubtful that UD lost a potential 6th man of the year nominee. Truthfully, unless we we at practice often early in the season, none of use know, I know I sure don't.
I donít think the season necessarily depended on Matos, but there is no doubt in my mind that he was the best on ball defender on the team. If you can, go back and watch the Butler game. He absolutely dominated Butlers guards on the defensive end. I commented at the time that it was a thing of beauty.
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Old 03-19-2019, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
For those throwing the pre-season, yes, pre-season expectations out at us, that's a flimsy defense for the shortcomings of this season.

When each of us wrote our pre-season expectations, these were projections based on limited knowledge. You should have the right to adjust expectations after seeing how good we play together or how good Toppin is. That's why you have a group of fans very disappointed at the outcome of the season. My disappointment is recognition of how good this team could really be. Whatever though -- I'm already onto next season, where my expectation is top 25 team assuming our core players are back, obviously including Obi. We are going to get crushed tomorrow night.
I agree in that we are going to be solid next season. I also agree that expectations can be modified as time goes on. With that said...Obi exceeded expectations of some, but there are others who witnessed him at practice last season and knew he was going to be the real deal. Some weren't as surprised as others. Others also expected Frankie to bring at least something to the table. Others also expected Davis to bring more, Jalen to not try and to too much, Josh to meet the possible preseason POY expectations that many had, Matos not to get hurt, etc....

The list can go on and on. For every positive...Obi playing really well and Mikesell having his best season yet...there are just as many, if not more "failing to meet expectations" moments in there as well. Matos injury. Trey missing some time and not being 100% the rest of the way.

Not making excuses for anything, just pointing out that the arguments for modifying expectations goes both ways.
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