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  #901  
Old 04-16-2018, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
Sign this kid and the family that comes with him. Now.
I hope he signs and breaks the streak of cursed lawyer offspring. Because I believe the last two kids we signed who had either a mom or dad who was an attorney were Sam Miller (mom) and Matt Derenbecker (dad).
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  #902  
Old 04-17-2018, 08:14 AM
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not sure how seriously he was recruited by former Dunbar guard Caleb McConnell is off to Rutgers
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  #903  
Old 04-17-2018, 02:04 PM
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https://n.rivals.com/position_rankin...etball/2018/SG

Cohill is the 24th ranked shooting guard in the 18 class per Rivals

Frankie Policelli is the 41st ranked PF

Last edited by OSU Flyer; 04-17-2018 at 02:06 PM..
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  #904  
Old 04-19-2018, 04:48 PM
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@PatLawless_

Breaking: 2018 SG Omar Silverio from St. Raymond (NY) just committed to Rhode Island on his official visit.
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  #905  
Old 04-19-2018, 05:59 PM
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Tyler Cheese (6’3, PG, 2018) of Florida Southwestern has committed to Akron
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  #906  
Old 04-20-2018, 11:14 AM
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What happened with Koran Moore? Did we ever offer? Seems like a decent FR project big.
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  #907  
Old 04-20-2018, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
What happened with Koran Moore? Did we ever offer? Seems like a decent FR project big.
from what I can tell it seems like his recruitment has become very quiet this year. Not sure why
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  #908  
Old 04-20-2018, 01:20 PM
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Sorry, me no want some guy named Cheese on our Roster
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  #909  
Old 04-20-2018, 01:54 PM
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9 players in the latest Rivals 150 to commit to a non power conference school

No. 65: Carte’Are Gordon, C - Saint Louis
No. 70: Bryce Hamilton, SG - UNLV
No. 77: Dalano Banton, SG - Western Kentucky
No. 83: Jeenathan Williams, SF - Buffalo
No. 84: Jermaine Harris, PF - Rhode Island
No. 90: AJ Green, PG - Northern Iowa
No. 91: Philip Petrusev, PF - Gonzaga
No. 103: Dwayne Cohill, SG - Dayton
No. 119: Noah Kirkwood, SF - Harvard

https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018...n-rhode-island
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  #910  
Old 04-20-2018, 11:20 PM
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Dima Zdor with a a ridiculous flush in traffic. That was nasty. 2018 big man showing some really nice stuff for the Ionians #DMVHoopfest
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  #911  
Old 04-21-2018, 12:25 PM
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Really impressed with the polished skillset of Dima Zdor @dima_zdor of @NyIonians. Blocking and contesting shots & finishing around the rim #DMVHoopFest
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  #912  
Old 04-21-2018, 02:45 PM
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2018 @NyIonians F Dima Zdor looking like he’s going to be one of the big stock risers this weekend. Mobile 6’10 forward with good shot blocking ability and finishing around the rim. Can face up and attack as well. Worth the trip to #DMVHoopfest
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  #913  
Old 04-22-2018, 07:53 PM
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I'm not sure if he's good enough to play here but the Jeremiah Davenport isn't going to qualify apparently. Forward out of Cincinnati Moeller who signed with Wright State. Could be an opportunity to take him as non qualifier. He played well in Moeller's run to the state title this year
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  #914  
Old 04-23-2018, 01:48 PM
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PG Neftali Alvarez is on an official visit to Fairfield right now. That's his 4th of 5 official visits he can use. It sounds like Wichita St is still after him and they've got a big need for PG after some roster turmoil

I don't know for sure but I get the feeling the staff isn't after him anymore
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  #915  
Old 04-23-2018, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
PG Neftali Alvarez is on an official visit to Fairfield right now. That's his 4th of 5 official visits he can use. It sounds like Wichita St is still after him and they've got a big need for PG after some roster turmoil

I don't know for sure but I get the feeling the staff isn't after him anymore
I'm guessing not either. If he's visiting Fairfield and not UD, then we aren't after him. Just reinforces for me that they must be going after a short-term one year plan and are focusing on 2019 for PG.
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  #916  
Old 04-23-2018, 03:43 PM
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Andrew Slater now is predicting Frankie Policelli for Dayton on 247 Sports
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  #917  
Old 04-23-2018, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I'm not sure if he's good enough to play here but the Jeremiah Davenport isn't going to qualify apparently. Forward out of Cincinnati Moeller who signed with Wright State. Could be an opportunity to take him as non qualifier. He played well in Moeller's run to the state title this year
Why wouldn't Wright State just take him as a non-qualifier? The Horizon, like the A10, isn't a league that restricts the admission of non-qualifiers.
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:58 PM
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Wing Philmon Gebrewhit just committed to Robert Morris, per source. Attends Holderness School (N.H.).
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  #919  
Old 04-23-2018, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer View Post
Why wouldn't Wright State just take him as a non-qualifier? The Horizon, like the A10, isn't a league that restricts the admission of non-qualifiers.
I'm not sure, it could be that it's an institutional decision not to take them.

According to the Wright St guy prep school could still be an option
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  #920  
Old 04-23-2018, 04:11 PM
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This is speculation on my part but it's possible he decided to part ways with Wright State after his senior year and they decided to just let him go.

He was a reserve at Moeller as a junior and wasn't high level recruit in the fall. From what I saw on twitter he apparently had a great state tournament and senior year. Maybe he played himself into a higher level than the Horizon League
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  #921  
Old 04-23-2018, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by soccergod View Post
Andrew Slater now is predicting Frankie Policelli for Dayton on 247 Sports
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I would be very happy if we sign Frankie. 247 now has him as DAY 100%, but I have no idea how much stock to put into this prediction. Anyone here familiar with their track record?

https://247sports.com/Player/Frankie-Policelli-45573219
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  #922  
Old 04-23-2018, 08:54 PM
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Slater has a pretty good track record. UC, Illinois, Maryland and Texas Tech aren't recruiting him anymore so we should be in good shape
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Old 04-23-2018, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
I would be very happy if we sign Frankie. 247 now has him as DAY 100%, but I have no idea how much stock to put into this prediction. Anyone here familiar with their track record?

https://247sports.com/Player/Frankie-Policelli-45573219
You can click on the predictors to see their track records: Andrew Slater has predicted 107 of 126 correctly and Brian Flynn 48 out of 59. Pretty good.
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  #924  
Old 04-23-2018, 09:33 PM
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Kevin Kone definitely had a stock rising weekend !! The 6’9 forward wowed the crowd and coaches with his athleticism in the half court and transition. Umass, Umass Lowell , Dayton, UMBC, Towson, FGCU highly interested
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  #925  
Old 04-23-2018, 10:45 PM
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It's official

Frankie goes to Dayton

http://www.zagsblog.com/2018/04/23/f...lli-to-dayton/
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Old 04-24-2018, 10:57 AM
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Policelli played AAU basketball with the New York Jayhawks. Dayton freshman Obidiah Toppin also played for that team.

Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
Also interesting from that article that we have offered two of his current teammates for 2019 (Tyson Etienne) and 2020 (Andre Curbelo). Both PG's.
---------------------
In the grand scheme of things while debating our pursuit of point guards, I can't get the report of above out of my head. What a set up for us. Two of our new recruits played with two pg's that we have offered AND we need.

Helloooo !!
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:38 AM
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And still no big man. For those who were so frustrated last year with our inability to post up down low, it will be more of the the same going forward. This will be an outside in team going forward.

The larger problem is defensively, where now without Kostas, we have no eraser to clean up the mistakes and lack of D effort.
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Old 04-25-2018, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
And still no big man. For those who were so frustrated last year with our inability to post up down low, it will be more of the the same going forward. This will be an outside in team going forward.

The larger problem is defensively, where now without Kostas, we have no eraser to clean up the mistakes and lack of D effort.
Frankly, I don’t get all the angst over the so-called “big-man” issue. The game has changed, mainly because of the 3point line. Villanova just won the Championship and they didn’t have a prototypical big. Spellman was a 4 and could really stroke it. If the kids learn to play team D, ie, help and recover, then they will be fine. If you watched Loyola play, they often had a team of no one over 6’6” on the floor. They played exceptional team D and it was hard to penetrate the lane.
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Old 04-25-2018, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Frankly, I don’t get all the angst over the so-called “big-man” issue. The game has changed, mainly because of the 3point line. Villanova just won the Championship and they didn’t have a prototypical big. Spellman was a 4 and could really stroke it. If the kids learn to play team D, ie, help and recover, then they will be fine. If you watched Loyola play, they often had a team of no one over 6’6” on the floor. They played exceptional team D and it was hard to penetrate the lane.
Despite this, I still miss Big Steve.

My point being that we won't face Villanova unless we dominate the A10, and we're a much better A10 team when we have a big man in the middle. So while the top 25 teams may not need a dominant 5, it's probably because they have 4- and 5-star players at every other position.
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Old 04-25-2018, 11:28 AM
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Kostas was better in theory than he was in reality. He has tons of upside, and hopefully he'll get there, but too often he was lost or dis-interested. Some of that falls on CAG, some on Kostas, where the line is drawn who knows.

As TA111 said, the game has changed, there isn't a ton of true post up, low post players these days (and neither was Kostas) Why? Because the most efficient shot in basketball is the driving layup/dunk (or as Dax Dunbar too often said "he lays it up for the slam, thank god Larry returned). The 2nd most efficient shot is the 3 pointer. Teams have found success by spreading the court, attacking the lane and kicking the ball back out for 3s, its what made most of Archie's teams successful, he only had 1 year (RIP Steve) with a true, solid back to the basket presence down low). The more players you have on the court that can drive, dish and shot the better your offense is going to flow (in theory). Move the ball, move it quickly, create lanes and attack. Don't just throw it into the post and see if they throw a double team at you.
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Old 04-25-2018, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Frankly, I don’t get all the angst over the so-called “big-man” issue. The game has changed, mainly because of the 3point line. Villanova just won the Championship and they didn’t have a prototypical big. Spellman was a 4 and could really stroke it. If the kids learn to play team D, ie, help and recover, then they will be fine. If you watched Loyola play, they often had a team of no one over 6’6” on the floor. They played exceptional team D and it was hard to penetrate the lane.
When making a case against the necessity of a true center, you'd be wise not to use as an example a team that has a very skilled and successful true center.
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Old 04-25-2018, 12:27 PM
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Dima Zdor - based on 247Sports, it looks like we could get this player based on who he has offers from. (Not sure how accurate and up to date this part of the website is?) He has interest from Vandy, Michigan, Kansas St, Davidson, etc, but apparently these and UD have not made offers. The offers he has are from lower mid-major programs.
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Old 04-25-2018, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Frankly, I don’t get all the angst over the so-called “big-man” issue. The game has changed, mainly because of the 3point line. Villanova just won the Championship and they didn’t have a prototypical big. Spellman was a 4 and could really stroke it. If the kids learn to play team D, ie, help and recover, then they will be fine. If you watched Loyola play, they often had a team of no one over 6’6” on the floor. They played exceptional team D and it was hard to penetrate the lane.
While I agree that I don't think it is a necessity to have a true post offensive player, I disagree about your Villanova example. Although their bigs play small offensively they could both guard big defensively. I've said it before that a big that plays small offensively but like a big defensively is the most coveted player in college basketball.
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Old 04-25-2018, 02:06 PM
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Spellman is 6'9 250 with a pretty solid frame on him. He's not a classic back to the basketball center but he could defend traditional centers of teams like Kansas in man to man.

Nova posted up Brunson a lot which let them pull Spellman out to the perimeter.

If Dayton plays man they need someone with size and strength to defend the Tillman's of the A10 or the bruisers that St. Louis has/is bringing in.

I don't think Policelli or Obi are the type of forward that could fill that role yet
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Old 04-25-2018, 02:09 PM
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CT Flyer, since you live in Rhode Island, does that influence your "big" philosophy?
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Old 04-25-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
CT Flyer, since you live in Rhode Island, does that influence your "big" philosophy?
Yes, I've told you already that when we play at Mohegan Sun next year it requires an overnight stay because it is more than 30 minutes away (barely)...although there may be some other good reasons to stay at the casino too!
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Old 04-25-2018, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Yes, I've told you already that when we play at Mohegan Sun next year it requires an overnight stay because it is more than 30 minutes away (barely)...although there may be some other good reasons to stay at the casino too!
Yeah...blackjack dealers!

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Old 04-25-2018, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Frankly, I don’t get all the angst over the so-called “big-man” issue. The game has changed, mainly because of the 3point line. Villanova just won the Championship and they didn’t have a prototypical big. Spellman was a 4 and could really stroke it. If the kids learn to play team D, ie, help and recover, then they will be fine. If you watched Loyola play, they often had a team of no one over 6’6” on the floor. They played exceptional team D and it was hard to penetrate the lane.
I think we may be saying the same thing, as are others. We are not looking to get the Purdue or TX centers, but do want the types that Villanova, Loyola, Duke, Richmond, VCU, and most other successful teams have. That is a guy who is 6'8" plus, big wing span, decent weight, good hands, can score inside and outside, and the ability to block a shot and eat some space. Cunningham is a great player, but he is not the above, nor will our two new bigger kids next year probably fill that bill. Number them what you want, since numbers died. It is now a PG, a big and three all around players.
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
When making a case against the necessity of a true center, you'd be wise not to use as an example a team that has a very skilled and successful true center.
Which team are you referring to? Villanova didn’t have a true center and Loyola played much of the tourney with 6’6” Jackson at the “5” spot. And neither team had what you would call a true shot blocker. The key to their defenses was to keep penetration to a minimum. Of course if you have a kid like Bagley at Duke you’ll be helping yourself. But even he is a multifaceted player who can drive it and shoot from distance. The game is evolving.
You are going to see more and more teams use the 6’7”-6’9” kids as floor stretchers as opposed to back to the basket players.
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Old 04-25-2018, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Which team are you referring to? Villanova didn’t have a true center and Loyola played much of the tourney with 6’6” Jackson at the “5” spot. And neither team had what you would call a true shot blocker. The key to their defenses was to keep penetration to a minimum. Of course if you have a kid like Bagley at Duke you’ll be helping yourself. But even he is a multifaceted player who can drive it and shoot from distance. The game is evolving.
You are going to see more and more teams use the 6’7”-6’9” kids as floor stretchers as opposed to back to the basket players.
I still think we all would have liked to see how far UD basketball would have flourished between 2016 and 2019 had Big Steve (RIP) been able to continue to display his back to the basket moves and setting a career blocked shot record which would never have been broken!
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Old 04-25-2018, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Which team are you referring to? Villanova didn’t have a true center and Loyola played much of the tourney with 6’6” Jackson at the “5” spot. And neither team had what you would call a true shot blocker. The key to their defenses was to keep penetration to a minimum. Of course if you have a kid like Bagley at Duke you’ll be helping yourself. But even he is a multifaceted player who can drive it and shoot from distance. The game is evolving.
You are going to see more and more teams use the 6’7”-6’9” kids as floor stretchers as opposed to back to the basket players.
Spellman isn't a true center but he was physical enough to guard Azibuke for Kansas in man defense. He held his own in the paint in that Final Four.

Absolutely agree with floor stretchers and non traditional centers but I don't think you can trot an Obi or Policelli out there in that role. I don't think they've got the physicality yet.

The other risk you run is getting a kid who think he's gonna play on the perimeter to buy into that role. I don't think Frankie signed up to be posting up as much as Josh Cunningham was last year

So, yes agree on non traditional bigs being the future but I don't think it's plug and play with any 6'7-9 kid. Gotta recruit for that position just like any other
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Old 04-26-2018, 12:29 AM
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I agree with what many have already said in this thread and elsewhere that our biggest remaining need is a physical player that can play with his back to the basket. Are we currently pursuing a recruit or transfer that can play that position?

Other than a legit 5, the recruiting class is starting to look very good.
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Old 04-27-2018, 07:09 PM
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JJ Rhymes (6’5, Wing, 2018) of Hutchinson CC has committed and signed with Grand Canyon
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Old 04-29-2018, 01:16 PM
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Unsigned 2018 6’7 Wing David Wingett recruitment is ������ Interest from Memphis Arkansas Auburn Oklahoma State Dayton Rhode Island IUPUI High Point etc
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Old 04-29-2018, 02:00 PM
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... I was intrigued by unsigned prep school wing David Wingett of Team Loaded North Carolina. Wingett is a skilled wing with 6-foot-6 size and shot it really well from deep on Saturday. He has offers from programs like South Dakota State, Eastern Michigan and UIC and could easily help at that level next season.

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals....si-s-takeaways
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Old 04-29-2018, 04:13 PM
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Wingett reclassified, and spent this year in Durham at Bull City Prep. Check out these stats. Are they real?

http://www.bullcitypace.com/teams/de...layerID=460665
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Old 04-29-2018, 04:28 PM
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I've never heard of any of those schools he's played against
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Old 04-29-2018, 06:18 PM
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2018 Bull City Prep (NC) F David Wingett has received an offer from Memphis. (HT @teamloadednc) @wingett_jr http://verbalcommits.com/players/david-wingett
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Old 04-29-2018, 07:57 PM
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Auburn, Hartford, High Point, Louisiana Tech, Stetson, Towson and UTEP offered 2018 Bull City Prep (NC) F David Wingett. (HT @teamloadednc) @wingett_jr http://verbalcommits.com/players/david-wingett
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Old 04-30-2018, 01:47 PM
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FGCU is hosting 2018 Miami Christian guard Neftali Alvarez for an official visit, a source tells @Rivals. One of the top guards available this spring

That is Neftali's 5th and final official visit so I think this confirms we're done recruiting him
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:14 PM
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Or Alvarez stopped recruiting us. One of the problems we face recruiting the two and three star guards is having Jalen Crutcher, who looks like a starter at the point for the next three years, and Davis and Cohill. Now a four or five star may say I am better than those guys. A three who wants starting minutes may look elsewhere.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Or Alvarez stopped recruiting us. One of the problems we face recruiting the two and three star guards is having Jalen Crutcher, who looks like a starter at the point for the next three years, and Davis and Cohill. Now a four or five star may say I am better than those guys. A three who wants starting minutes may look elsewhere.
THIS.

Hey man, want to come play back-up PG for the next 3 years? Or if Cohills "combo guard" label is remotely accurate, 3rd man off the bench PG for the next 3 years?

I think a much more plausible scenario would be a grad transfer/juco PG that has experience and can pick up solid minutes immediately. I don't see many 17-18 year olds signing up to ride pine for several years.
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Old 04-30-2018, 04:02 PM
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Yeah, the power schools don't have any players in front of potential transfers. Glad we have nothing but Allstars. Wonder why we don't win much though?
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Old 04-30-2018, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
THIS.

Hey man, want to come play back-up PG for the next 3 years? Or if Cohills "combo guard" label is remotely accurate, 3rd man off the bench PG for the next 3 years?

I think a much more plausible scenario would be a grad transfer/juco PG that has experience and can pick up solid minutes immediately. I don't see many 17-18 year olds signing up to ride pine for several years.
That is plausible but I doubt that is how most recruited players think nor is that how the recruiter would approach the player. The player would probably look at the UD record last year and think if I play for them I will take them from being a mediocre team to being in the finals of the NCAA. At least as far as my position on the team ie PG will take them. The recruit may hesitate if he thought they could not stock the other 4 positions but not his position.

I doubt that any player worth his salt undersells his talent and potential and no recruiter worth his salt would let the player undersell himself. These are aspiring teenagers (even three and two star recruits) who dream they can reach the moon or NBA whichever comes first and recruiters who sell them on their school being the one that allows them to achieve that dream. The recruit may acknowledge he has holes in his game but the recruiter will tell the recruit how his school will take the holes away and make him a complete player who can achieve his dream.

If the recruit thought otherwise, why would you even want him? When he goes up against opposing teams is he going to be thinking not about beating them but how inferior he is to them. Although the opposing player is an all American he should be thinking he can stop him on defense and score on him on offense. Even if in reality he gets eaten alive.
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Old 04-30-2018, 04:21 PM
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The Neftali Alvarez offer went out in December and now Missouri PG signee Xavier Pinson got offered in early January. Crutcher really solidified his hold on the PG during A10 play after those offers

Very possible it's a two way street on who stopped the recruitment
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Old 04-30-2018, 06:00 PM
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Even at a P5 school with an established PG, no incoming freshman looks and says if I can't start day 1, I'm not going. If that were the case, many of them would end up at smaller schools. Any player worth his salt WILL get playing time if he earns it. You think AG wouldn't play two PGs 20 mpg if he wanted to, or that one PG could play off guard, or any number of other scenarios that could play out. To think they simply wouldn't come to UD because they might be behind Crutcher for 3 years is ridiculous.
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Old 04-30-2018, 06:30 PM
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Believe jack and the hawk have a point. While it may not be the most important point to a recruit, the landscape of players ahead of him would be one of the things that would/could affect a decision as to where to go. Agree that many things could happen and opportunity could come in several ways, but going to a team that is stacked at your position is a factor.
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:10 PM
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There aren't a lot of players left in the class of 2018 and I didn't exactly see many in the Atlanta area over the weekend, but I did see David Wingett and he's got a chance to help somebody as a freshman.

Wingett has tremendous size, plays hard and can really fill it up from deep. Memphis offered based on his weekend play and so did others like Auburn, UTEP, Louisiana Tech and many more.

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals....e-bossi-awards
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:14 PM
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That's why top kids go to Kentucky, or Duke or....

Instead of UD. They don't want to waste three years sitting behind the great Crucher!!!!!

Guess we'll have to wait a while to bring in talent.
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Old 04-30-2018, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Malik Riddle 6'4 SG Rossville, TN

Despite seeing his least productive game of the weekend, it was easy to see the talent M33M Elite gaurd Malik Riddle possesses. A 2018 recruit, Riddle is equipped with long arms, good athleticism and a versatile scoring attack. Through seven games in the Gauntlet, Riddle is averaging 13.3 points and 4.4 rebounds. He's also connected on 10 of his 25 three-pointer attempts.

Recruiting: Dayton, Navy, ETSU, TCU, LIU-Brooklyn, Creighton, Austin Peay, Tennessee State, Arkansas State

http://www.scout.com/college/basketb...out-performers
First got linked to Dayton last spring and played AAU ball at one point Crutcher. Not sure if the interest or need is still there but it sounds like he's had a nice spring


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Old 04-30-2018, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
First got linked to Dayton last spring and played AAU ball at one point Crutcher. Not sure if the interest or need is still there but it sounds like he's had a nice spring


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Riddle is a combo guard withe some talent. He has flown under the radar, as he has played for a small school, and was not exposed to the bigger AAU events. I would think UD is watching him now.
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:33 AM
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Archie lands #6 player, shooting guard Romeo Langford, over Kansas and Vandy.
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Old 05-01-2018, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Archie lands #6 player, shooting guard Romeo Langford, over Kansas and Vandy.
Big win for Archie, this was the recruit the Indiana fans were using as a measure of AM's ability to recruit. We know he can coach and with the Indiana name behind him recruiting is on a whole different level than at UD. Give credit to AG, he is really trying to upgrade the talent level of the Flyers. How successful he will be is an open question, conference doesn't help but little he can do about that in the short run ( maybe even the long run).

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Old 05-01-2018, 03:22 PM
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With Crutcher running the point what right thinking point guard would consider coming to UD?
Pitt signs the top ranked unsigned point guard in the country, a rivals 4 star point guard, on April 24 and on April 30 a 3 star point guard agrees to come to Pitt on April 30th. Was that a bright move on the part of the 3 star point guard? But then again the four star guard is not named Crutcher.
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Old 05-01-2018, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
With Crutcher running the point what right thinking point guard would consider coming to UD?
Pitt signs the top ranked unsigned point guard in the country, a rivals 4 star point guard, on April 24 and on April 30 a 3 star point guard agrees to come to Pitt on April 30th. Was that a bright move on the part of the 3 star point guard? But then again the four star guard is not named Crutcher.
Both are combo guards. Two, it is playing in the ACC.

Just to be clear. No one said, "With Crutcher running the point what right thinking point guard would consider coming to UD?" Certainly someone might come to UD or Richmond or VCU under that circumstance. It just makes recruiting a PG harder, because most will not. Exhibit A, who did we land to back up Scoochie?
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Old 05-01-2018, 04:32 PM
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Superman wears Jalen Crutcher pajamas (when his Ray Harper ones are in the wash obviously).
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Old 05-01-2018, 05:23 PM
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A true PG signing with us has to live with one of 3 realities:

1.) He can beat out Crutcher and be our starting PG for 2 - 4 years.
2.) He can't beat out Crutcher, but is good enough to split time for the next 3 years and has 1 year running the show
3.) He can't catch Crutcher, and spends 3 years getting limited minutes off the bench and at best is the starting PG for 1 year (unless he gets beaten out by an underclassmen).

Scenarios 2 and 3 are not strong selling points. If you think players aren't thinking about the opportunity for playing time when choosing a school then you are delusional. These kids want to play. Most of them understand they may have to sit behind an upperclassmen to start, but they see a path to playing time. 3 years as a backup is not going to be an attractive option.

Crutcher isn't then end-all-be-all at PG. A better player can beat him out for the starting spot and there are better players out there. But if you have to choose between a 3 year battle with an established PG at Dayton and a clear path to playing time somewhere else - I can't blame the kid who chooses to avoid the 3 year battle.

Not saying we won't get another PG, but it is a more complicated recruiting pitch than normal.
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Old 05-01-2018, 05:42 PM
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Which is why signing a grad transfer PG this year and a 2019 PG next makes total sense.
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Old 05-01-2018, 05:56 PM
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Crutcher is not a great point guard!! ahe looked awfully good simply because he was compared and competed with a player that was not very good. Any good 3 star rated player has the opportunity to get plenty of playing time and a 4 star recruit like Mann or Lewis would relegate him to back up roll!!!
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Old 05-01-2018, 06:01 PM
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This same argument goes for a center (like the 7 footer transferring out of Florida State). Dayton has no center on the roster. If he is any good, he will get all the playing time that he could possibly want. His only competition would be Cunningham who is playing completely out of position. The rest of his competition for minutes are two skinny kids that weigh around 200 pounds soaking wet. A true sized center should be more concerned about accidentally fracturing one if his colleagues (concussion protocol) in practice rather than worrying about not getting minutes. Its wide open for a center to step in.
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Old 05-01-2018, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Which is why signing a grad transfer PG this year and a 2019 PG next makes total sense.
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Old 05-01-2018, 08:04 PM
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Crutcher was not a great point guard. But he was a good Freshman point guard when there was no other real option. His Assist to Turnover ratio of 2:1 was outstanding especially on a team that was sketchy shooting outside of dunk range. His turnover ratio of 2/game was pretty good considering the load he had to carry.

His shooting was pedestrian but I expect his minutes will decline and his 41/34/68% will improve simply with a little more rest. I expect he will see the most minutes at pg unless they bring in Chris Paul. We are going to be ok, and it's too early to fret over another point guard which will happen eventually.
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Old 05-01-2018, 10:36 PM
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His knowledge of Dayton University likely doesn't stretch beyond what the coaches have told him.
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Old 05-02-2018, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
Crutcher was not a great point guard. But he was a good Freshman point guard when there was no other real option. His Assist to Turnover ratio of 2:1 was outstanding especially on a team that was sketchy shooting outside of dunk range. His turnover ratio of 2/game was pretty good considering the load he had to carry.

His shooting was pedestrian but I expect his minutes will decline and his 41/34/68% will improve simply with a little more rest. I expect he will see the most minutes at pg unless they bring in Chris Paul. We are going to be ok, and it's too early to fret over another point guard which will happen eventually.
Agreed, he wasn't a great point guard but he busted his a$$ for us, logged marathon minutes and was more then serviceable especially as a Freshman. 2:1 A/TO is insane when you consider the sheer amount of minutes/fatigue AND a Freshman.

He wasn't a great point guard for sure, but the potential is there. I can't emphasize this enough, i don't care who gets brought in, i want Jalen Crutcher running our offense for 30+ minutes next year. Unless you are one of the complainers of course and you just want someone to play miserably so they can pound their chest and say i told you so.
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Old 05-02-2018, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 View Post
Agreed, he wasn't a great point guard but he busted his a$$ for us, logged marathon minutes and was more then serviceable especially as a Freshman. 2:1 A/TO is insane when you consider the sheer amount of minutes/fatigue AND a Freshman.

He wasn't a great point guard for sure, but the potential is there. I can't emphasize this enough, i don't care who gets brought in, i want Jalen Crutcher running our offense for 30+ minutes next year. Unless you are one of the complainers of course and you just want someone to play miserably so they can pound their chest and say i told you so.
BRob/SDFlyer- I have to disagree with you both. He was/is a great point guard. For anybody to guide the "team" we had (or lack there of) in 2017/18 and put up the numbers he did without having played one minute of division 1 BB in a highly competitive league the way he did...that was scoochy level considering what he was dealing with. What this team needs is just a solid backup PG. I don't give a sh1t about star rankings, Clutcher got the job done; and done very well. He'll go down as one of the best to ever put on the UD uniform - mark it down.
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Old 05-02-2018, 09:35 AM
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I like Crutcher a lot, but he wasn't a great PG. He did great compared probably to expectations, but his defense needs a lot of work and he needs to get stronger. I think he CAN be great, but he's not there yet. Based on what I saw, I have no doubt that he will put forth all the effort required to continue to improve his game.
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Old 05-02-2018, 09:38 AM
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A 4* or 5* recruit would not hesitate to come to UD because of Crutcher. Here is the complete list of those players currently considering UD:

1.

A 3* is probably confident he is talented enough that he could come in and get playing time right away, but, have none of you ever had kids in youth sports before?? Do you really think the best players get the most playing time at those levels?? All of these kids, and their parents, know about team politics. So if Crutcher is perceived as "AG's guy" then it's like beating the heavyweight champ: you can't just win, you have to knock him out. Otherwise, the best you'll do is split time. None of these kids want to split time for 3 years.
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Old 05-02-2018, 09:44 AM
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Kira Lewis is a 4* recruit considering UD. He is probably a 2019 recruit but some articles have hinted he might reclassify to 2018. He’s probably not coming here, but he did take an unofficial visit for the Ball State game. Pretty much every recruiting service rates him 4 stars, and he’s getting recent interest from Kansas and Kentucky.

Totally agree with the first statement, but disagree with others who say Crutcher isn’t very good. He was *really* good for a freshman, and sure sounds like the staff is high on him. Also sure sounds like we are trying to bring in a highly ranked 2019 point guard somehow, some way.
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Old 05-02-2018, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
A 4* or 5* recruit would not hesitate to come to UD because of Crutcher. Here is the complete list of those players currently considering UD:

1.

A 3* is probably confident he is talented enough that he could come in and get playing time right away, but, have none of you ever had kids in youth sports before?? Do you really think the best players get the most playing time at those levels?? All of these kids, and their parents, know about team politics. So if Crutcher is perceived as "AG's guy" then it's like beating the heavyweight champ: you can't just win, you have to knock him out. Otherwise, the best you'll do is split time. None of these kids want to split time for 3 years.
If there is a Chris Paul out there in the HS ranks and he wants to come over and take the job away from JC, I'd welcome that. Hate to say this but nobody on this team played exceptional defense last year. Freshmen typically don't know that defense really is until they get a taste of college BB. Crutcher is as good this coming year as any 4 star we could possibly land between now and October. We need another PG period. Someone to spell JC or fill in if he gets hurt for a few games. You always want to have a backup. Anybody coming to UD as a PG is going to have major game to take the job away from JC.
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Old 05-02-2018, 09:56 AM
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How did the PG situation play out with the last regime? It might not be a good comparison because I think the the plan had to be reworked when Khari Price left. Crosby was supposed to be better and came in with Scoochie entrenched. Maybe M Wright agreed to come because he was told/had a good feeling that he could take over year one.
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Old 05-02-2018, 10:04 AM
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While I agree there is a need for a backup PG, I'm hoping Cohill can play the point to spell Crutcher. Cohill is likely way more adept to play the point than Darrell was. It was interesting that when push came to shove in the VCU A-10 tourney game, Darrell played point in 2nd half when Jalen got in foul trouble.

If so, then our major focus should be on obtaining a big guy, 6'8-6'11' with some beef. Someone who can learn behind Cunningham (or a redshirt transfer) and be ready to help in 2019, when we won't have any strength down low. I realize easy for me to say, but that should be a major focus right now
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Old 05-02-2018, 10:55 AM
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If you look at any highly successful college or pro franchise, they work overtime trying to achieve competition at every position. They don't want any player to get a position by default without having to work for it, no matter if he is a walkon, an incumbent player, or a sought after recruit. Are the odds equal for all candidates for that position? Of course not. But nobody gets a free pass if the coaches are doing their job.

I hope that Jalen, Jordan, Josh, and Jrey (sp ?) have to work their buts off to win/retain their position.
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Old 05-02-2018, 11:03 AM
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The game has evolved into position-less basketball and judging by our signings, Grant has fully embraced it. Skill-sets are more important than outdated position labels, which generally refer to size rather than skill. Crutcher can play as the primary ball-handler and off the ball. That's the same versatility I'd expect Grant to look for in the guards he recruits. He's not recruiting someone to be a "back-up PG" to spell a few minutes. That's John Crosby. And as we seen by the end of the year, our best option to slide in as the primary ball-handler when Crutcher was out wasn't Crosby.
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Old 05-02-2018, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by 116 Chambers View Post
While I agree there is a need for a backup PG, I'm hoping Cohill can play the point to spell Crutcher. Cohill is likely way more adept to play the point than Darrell was. It was interesting that when push came to shove in the VCU A-10 tourney game, Darrell played point in 2nd half when Jalen got in foul trouble.

If so, then our major focus should be on obtaining a big guy, 6'8-6'11' with some beef. Someone who can learn behind Cunningham (or a redshirt transfer) and be ready to help in 2019, when we won't have any strength down low. I realize easy for me to say, but that should be a major focus right now
I agree! AG and some of his assistants all have experience with recruiting in the state of Florida and should be prioritizing 7'1" transfer Ike Ogiabu. Our team was terrible on defense last season and this guy is a human shot eraser underneath. After getting little playing time at Florida St. we can promise him immediate minutes after sitting one year and playing three.

By that time the PG situation would probably be rectified. As far as the upcoming season I am confident that Crutcher will work on his deficiencies this off season and be ready to play 30 plus minutes. Dwayne Cohill can give him relief whenever he needs rest or gets in foul trouble. That being said, I hope that getting in early on Kira Lewis proves to be of some value and he chooses to become a Flyer!
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Old 05-02-2018, 11:18 AM
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Crutcher was not a great PG last year, but most freshmen (outside of some one and dones) are not great as freshmen. But if you didn't see major potential for Crutcher to be something special over the next three years then you weren't watching the same games as I was.
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Old 05-02-2018, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
How did the PG situation play out with the last regime? It might not be a good comparison because I think the the plan had to be reworked when Khari Price left. Crosby was supposed to be better and came in with Scoochie entrenched. Maybe M Wright agreed to come because he was told/had a good feeling that he could take over year one.
I think Khari left because the PG plan had already been worked out. He saw the writing on the wall that this was Scoochie's team starting the next year, and Khari didn't want to sit.

Players want to play.
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Old 05-02-2018, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Crutcher was not a great PG last year, but most freshmen (outside of some one and dones) are not great as freshmen. But if you didn't see major potential for Crutcher to be something special over the next three years then you weren't watching the same games as I was.
I think everyone here knows how I felt about M Wright. I was super bummed when we lost him and had to "settle" for Crutcher. So I went into the season ready to say Crutcher isn't the guy.

After one season - I don't know yet if I was right about MW (productive, but not super efficient on offense and 2nd team all-conference on D), but I can tell you I was wrong about Crutcher. At the time I felt like Crutcher was a good get for that late in the recruiting period, but he exceeded all of my expectations.

He made Freshman mistakes, but made significant improvements as the season went on. He will continue to grow and become a guy that takes care of the ball and shoots 40% from 3. I'll take a guy like that to run our offense any day of the week.
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Old 05-02-2018, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
I think Khari left because the PG plan had already been worked out. He saw the writing on the wall that this was Scoochie's team starting the next year, and Khari didn't want to sit.

Players want to play.
Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
I think everyone here knows how I felt about M Wright. I was super bummed when we lost him and had to "settle" for Crutcher. So I went into the season ready to say Crutcher isn't the guy.

After one season - I don't know yet if I was right about MW (productive, but not super efficient on offense and 2nd team all-conference on D), but I can tell you I was wrong about Crutcher. At the time I felt like Crutcher was a good get for that late in the recruiting period, but he exceeded all of my expectations.

He made Freshman mistakes, but made significant improvements as the season went on. He will continue to grow and become a guy that takes care of the ball and shoots 40% from 3. I'll take a guy like that to run our offense any day of the week.
I thought Khari's decision to leave was more a combination of medical and home/love sick. I think he still would have seen his share of playing time.

Crutcher surely worked out last year better than most expected.
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Old 05-02-2018, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
I think everyone here knows how I felt about M Wright. I was super bummed when we lost him and had to "settle" for Crutcher. So I went into the season ready to say Crutcher isn't the guy.

After one season - I don't know yet if I was right about MW (productive, but not super efficient on offense and 2nd team all-conference on D), but I can tell you I was wrong about Crutcher. At the time I felt like Crutcher was a good get for that late in the recruiting period, but he exceeded all of my expectations.

He made Freshman mistakes, but made significant improvements as the season went on. He will continue to grow and become a guy that takes care of the ball and shoots 40% from 3. I'll take a guy like that to run our offense any day of the week.
MNFats: I think Crutcher exceeded all of our expectations. I do believe he needs to get stronger to be able to penetrate into the lane more effectively. But that is something that will come with time. I think his ball security was outstanding.
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Old 05-02-2018, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I thought Khari's decision to leave was more a combination of medical and home/love sick. I think he still would have seen his share of playing time.

Crutcher surely worked out last year better than most expected.
Those were true and the only reasons we were told but there's no doubt his mpg were going to be cut down....
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Old 05-02-2018, 02:51 PM
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former Memphis commit guard Myreon Jones is headed to Penn State. Dayton had interest at one point this spring
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Old 05-02-2018, 02:56 PM
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Crutcher as a freshman was better than Scoochie as a freshman. Part of that was that he got a lot more minutes. But I wouldn't be sad if Crutcher's career > Scoochie's career.
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Both are combo guards. Two, it is playing in the ACC.

Just to be clear. No one said, "With Crutcher running the point what right thinking point guard would consider coming to UD?" Certainly someone might come to UD or Richmond or VCU under that circumstance. It just makes recruiting a PG harder, because most will not. Exhibit A, who did we land to back up Scoochie?
Not that it matters the Pittsburgh papers say they are both point guards and indicated that Rivals had stated that the guard with three stars was ranked 42nd point guard in the 2018 class.

As far as not recruiting with Scoochie, this just is not true. Crosby may not have turned out to be what he was hoped to be but at the time of his recruitment he was highly regarded. Mention was made of him being mentioned as a McDonalds All America and Maryland was said to be actively recruiting him. That he did not live up to his recruiting reputation is a risk you take with every player. It might be one reason coaches don't stop recruiting when they have five players.

Another poster indicated that maybe the potential recruit is scared off because he sees politics in that Crutcher is AG's man. I do not know what evidence there is for this. At point guard last year Crutcher was not AG's man rather he was AG's only man. AG had no other options.

No one on this board has been negative toward Crutcher and any UD fan can only hope that he continues to develop and becomes a great player. But a point guard on a mediocre ball team who averaged under 10 points a game while playing over thirty minutes a game is unlikely to strike fear into the hearts of any potential Point Guard that AG may be recruiting.

And saying he was great because he was a freshman and did what he did is not quite accurate or even fair to Crutcher. It does not show that he was a great point guard but does give us hope that he will become a great point guard.

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Old 05-02-2018, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
As far as not recruiting with Scoochie, this just is not true. Crosby may not have turned out to be what he was hoped to be but at the time of his recruitment he was highly regarded. Mention was made of him being mentioned as a McDonalds All America and Maryland was said to be actively recruiting him. That he did not live up to his recruiting reputation is a risk you take with every player. It might be one reason coaches don't stop recruiting when they have five players.
Crosby came in after Scoochies Sophomore year. Had Crosby panned out he would have been a backup for two years and been "the guy" for two more. With Crutcher, if you can't beat him out you only get 1 year to be "the guy". When you can only play 4 years, 1 year is a big difference.
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Old 05-02-2018, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
.

Another poster indicated that maybe the potential recruit is scared off because he sees politics in that Crutcher is AG's man. I do not know what evidence there is for this. At point guard last year Crutcher was not AG's man rather he was AG's only man. AG had no other options.
I saw this quoted earlier in the thread as well. If AG is recruiting a player, why is Crutcher more of "AG's man" than the recruit?

Isn't the recruit also "AG's man"?
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Old 05-03-2018, 12:26 AM
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I just don't see the whole I won't go to x college because I'll be stuck behind y for 3 years deal. If you're good enough, you're going to get PT. If you're better than player y, you'll win the starting job and get more. If recruits only went to schools where they played behind someone for 1 year, then every school would be one disaster away from a terrible season every year, because this wouldn't just be true for PG, but for every spot. And if that was the case, there'd be a heck of a lot of great players who played at smaller schools because the top schools would already have that Sr/Fr combo and when the Fr becomes So and then Jr, they have a crap backup PG? That just doesn't make any sense and you certainly don't see it on teams today.
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Old 05-03-2018, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
Mention was made of him (Crosby) being mentioned as a McDonalds All America hearts of any potential Point Guard that AG may be recruiting.
?????
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Old 05-03-2018, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
Another poster indicated that maybe the potential recruit is scared off because he sees politics in that Crutcher is AG's man. I do not know what evidence there is for this. At point guard last year Crutcher was not AG's man rather he was AG's only man. AG had no other options.
Originally Posted by Bucketnight View Post
I saw this quoted earlier in the thread as well. If AG is recruiting a player, why is Crutcher more of "AG's man" than the recruit?

Isn't the recruit also "AG's man"?
To set the record straight, that's not what I was saying at all. Maybe the incoming freshman is as good, or even a little better, than the more senior guy ahead of them, but very often you have to prove you're clearly and definitively better than the incumbent in order to overtake the older guy (hard to do in many subjective areas like "leadership"). AG is comfortable with the guy he's already been through the battles with--it's human nature. Everyone has experienced this.

Have you ever taken a new job at the manager level or above? One of the main questions I always ask is "who's seat does someone internally think I'm taking?" There's usually a person internally who thinks they deserve my seat, and is potentially a rival instead of a teammate. If you don't take time to understand that before taking a job you're a fool. It's a lot lower risk situation when you hear "there's no one internally who believes they are ready for this role."
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Old 05-03-2018, 02:03 PM
OCFlyer85 OCFlyer85 is offline
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Can we discuss potential '18 recruits and stop jabbering about Crutcher? Crutcher, luckily for us, was a good late pickup. End of story
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Old 05-03-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by OCFlyer85 View Post
Can we discuss potential '18 recruits and stop jabbering about Crutcher? Crutcher, luckily for us, was a good late pickup. End of story
I get it - it is helpful to keep this thread clean and keep it to upcoming recruits.

However, Crutcher's solid play last year has a direct impact on 2018 recruiting. So I wouldn't exactly call it the end of the story. We will get another PG, but clearly we are struggling a little to find one and Crutcher's play is part of the reason why.
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