Periodic Wright State Ramblings

[PURPLE REIGN]

With this discussion of teams not willing to play UD, why do Wright State and UD not play a home & home annually? I would think this would be a big rivalry and at least add some intrigue to an otherwise boring out of conference schedule like with Cincinnati and Xavier?

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[1903 Flyer]

Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN With this discussion of teams not willing to play UD, why do Wright State and UD not play a home & home annually? I would think this would be a big rivalry and at least add some intrigue to an otherwise boring out of conference schedule like with Cincinnati and Xavier?

And there it is...officially the offseason!

[PURPLE REIGN]

I am new to the board and not aware of the situation/explanation. Two Division one teams in the same city seperated by 15 miles...seems logical from the outside

[rollo]

Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN I am new to the board and not aware of the situation/explanation. Two Division one teams in the same city seperated by 15 miles...seems logical from the outside

There's a large group of Priders who feel UD is too good to play Wright State...and then there's another group that who sees right thru their hypocrisy when they complain and can't understand how Ohio State, UC and _avier won't play us.

It really is that simple.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Whacker]

Consider this a repository for all such musings now and in the future.

[UD90]

This year we were the last at large team in the field.

If we subbed WSU (rpi 266) for Miami (rpi 233) we might not have made it. I'd argue we shouldn't do a home and away with Miami anymore either and I like that rivalry.

Enough said...

[AC91]

Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN With this discussion of teams not willing to play UD, why do Wright State and UD not play a home & home annually? I would think this would be a big rivalry and at least add some intrigue to an otherwise boring out of conference schedule like with Cincinnati and Xavier?

OK. When the likes of Skyline turn up to sponsor the series and ESPN is in the discussions with an annual TV deal, like UC-XU have, then we should probably consider it. Right now, I'm not sure if Peffley ford and Ch 7 would consider it...To equate UD vs WSU to UC-XU is ludicrous.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN I am new to the board and not aware of the situation/explanation. Two Division one teams in the same city seperated by 15 miles...seems logical from the outside

Let me bring you up to speed purple, this topic his brought up by a few posters a couple times each season . Their reasoning is that the game would be played on MLK day, would be covered nationally by ESPN and the whole country would wait with baited breath to watch the game. Most other posters are weary of the subject and see no reason to schedule a much lower ranking (RPI) school similar to Miami. It will come up again and the same reasoning will again be put forth. It is a hot button issue for a few folks.

[Viperstick]

Originally Posted by Whacker Consider this a repository for all such musings now and in the future.

A repository, or more accurately, a suppository.

[xubrew]

The last thing Wright State needs to be worrying about right now is a team they don't even play. If it were a 25 minute game, Wright State would have probably been ranked in the top 25 last year. Unfortunately, it's a 40 minute game, and they got in the habit of sucking in the second half. Lucky for them it's only a forty minute game and not a fifty minute game.

[Flyer1995]

As a (relatively) long time reader here, it is truly never an off-season or a MLK day without a post like this. I am a fan of anything that can bring positive light upon the Dayton Area. Thus I generally root for Wright State and hope they do well each year. They have had small snippets of success, i believe they made their conference championship two years in a row back in 2013-14(?) but couldn't pull it out either time. This past year I didn't follow them but I watched a couple games and was not impressed. IF they can somehow get on track and make a couple NCAA tournaments by winning the Horizon then this conversation can be resurrected. For now I don't think UD has any business playing them, they simply haven't been able to get it done. We need to worry about improving our Non-Con schedule and adding wright state will not do that at all, atleast for now. Like I said, lets see how they do for the next three so years then let's talk. Even then it probably won't happen.

[priceg75]

Originally Posted by rollo There's a large group of Priders who feel UD is too good to play Wright State...and then there's another group that who sees right thru their hypocrisy when they complain and can't understand how Ohio State, UC and _avier won't play us. It really is that simple.

And there is another group that realizes that we are Ohio State, Xavier, and UC's Wright State and don't care much one way or the other.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[jack72]

Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN I am new to the board and not aware of the situation/explanation. Two Division one teams in the same city seperated by 15 miles...seems logical from the outside

You are not aware, but yet you name the thread "Periodic WSU Ramblings".

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

I attended my first Wright State game in years this past season, thanks to free tickets. Sunday late afternoon game in December, not much else going on around town that time of day and playing Miami. I have never seen an announced crowd of 3,752 (which I question if that many were even in attendance) be so quiet, despite a Raider victory.

Looked like a bit of talent on the Raiders team with a few of the freshmen and a sophomore or two, but as others have said, until WSU prooves they can stay in the top 100, or even 200, RPI wise, the Flyers have nothing to gain. Even then, I question what the Flyers have to gain by playing even a "buy game" with WSU.

As for Miami, they were pathetic. I do not care what history we have, we need to look for better, more competitive options for a home and home series. I understand the arguement for wanting a somewhat local road game early in the season for the RPI boost when we win, but given the recent lack of success by the Redhawks, half the other MAC teams would be better options to consider if we want to stay local for a road trip.

[PURPLE REIGN]

Originally Posted by jack72 You are not aware, but yet you name the thread "Periodic WSU Ramblings".

Nope, not me.

I simply asked the question in another thread and a moderator created this and added the title.

[Gazoo]

I will repeat the same #1 reason a home-home series should not now or likely ever happen: because once started it can't stop no matter how low into the depths WSU falls because then we're "ducking" WSU. We haven't played them in a decade and still people like to say this on the occasions when WSU's RPI breaks 200.

_avier vs. UC seems destined to always be a matchup of 2 pretty good teams. You can't schedule a never-ending series with a team that is routinely in the 200+ RPI range. It's why Miami needs to leave the schedule as an annual requirement (but still a possibility when it makes sense).

For those who say we're tOSU's "Wright State," keep in mind that tOSU's RPI was 41 last year while UD's was 33, and WSU was 263 (RealTimeRPI). I don't have the prior year numbers but over the last 10 years I don't think we were consistently 230 spots worse than tOSU. So no, we're not tOSU's Wright State because we won't be an anchor to their schedule.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Gazoo we're not tOSU's Wright State because we won't be an anchor to their schedule.

Not playing Wright State has more to do with us having 'nothing to gain/everything to lose' than it does with their SOS, which is exactly why Ohio State, UC and _avier won't be scheduling UD any time soon. In that aspect, we are tOSU's Wright State.

Do you think that if Wright State cracked the RPI top 100 for a dozen straight years that we'd schedule them? I don't because no matter what WSU does with respect to success (nothing to gain, everything to lose) or failure (anchor on our schedule) on the court, we'll always have a legitimate excuse to ignore them...just as UC, tOSU and _avier do to us.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[AC91]

Originally Posted by rollo Do you think that if Wright State cracked the RPI top 100 for a dozen straight years that we'd schedule them?

No because there is no imaginable scenario where this matchup would matter to anyone outside of dayton. UC-XU works primarily because there is national interest and an annual TV game, and it is a terrific arrangement of mutual benefit. Ohio St can afford to not schedule it because, due to their conference and their name, they can get a TV game anytime they want with just about anyone they want, so sentimental regional matchups do not matter to them. UD keeps the trajectory up and there will be more and more games that will garner national attention for us, not because our opponents want to play us, but because the people with money will want to show it.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[PURPLE REIGN]

With all of the meaningless games broadcast nightly on ESPN's bevy of channels, IMO they would pick this game up if scheduled.

People tune in to rivalry games, even when they do not have a rooting interest, just to see teams play with increased passion.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by AC91 UD keeps the trajectory up and there will be more and more games that will garner national attention for us...

Trajectory and Attention aside, no matter what UD does tOSU* will always have a 'we can play anyone we want' attitude....and that 'anyone' will never be UD.

[Bucketnight]

UC and X don't need us because they fill the local rivalry spot for each other. OSU doesn't need us because their conference rivalries and national profile are such that they don't need anyone.

I can't speak for all alumni that live outside the Dayton metro but it wouldn't surprise me to find out that most feel the same way I do... complete and utter apathy. I don't care about Wright State any more than I care about Toledo or Akron. I want the strongest non conference schedule possible that allows us the highest profile and highest chance at conference championships and Tournament appearances. I don't see how every playing a "road" game against Wright State helps that. I don't have any problem with Buy games in place of some of the other lower level programs we sometimes schedule at the beginning of the season.

There is no national audience for this. To think otherwise is completely wishful thinking. Most national fans probably don't know anything about the proximity. There is no real national outcry for a return of the UD-X game so I'm not sure why anyone would have an interest that wasn't already invested in 1 of the schools.

I the ever ongoing debate, I think Gazoo makes the most interesting point. I'm all for civic pride but until such time that Wright State shows a consistent reliable ability to help our program, I would rather pass.

I am however looking forward to this thread breaking the all time record for Should We Play Wright State posts which should stand clear until next off season. Further, I commit to adding little to the discourse that hasn't already been said. And yes... I know I have already just done that.

[flyerfanatic86]

Originally Posted by rollo Trajectory and Attention aside, no matter what UD does tOSU* will always have a 'we can play anyone we want' attitude....and that 'anyone' will never be UD.

I don't think this is necessarily the case. It is with Matta at the helm, but I know there are a lot of influential fans/boosters that would like OSU to play some in-state rivals. Life after Matta may be very different, depending on the new coach and his thoughts on the matter.

[longtimefan]

UD - 6 NCAA's and 7 NIT's in the past 20 years; 6 NCAA wins including an Elite 8, 11 NIT wins including an NIT Championship during that time. Average RPI past 5 years - 67.

WSU - One NCAA in the past 20 years (none in the past 8 years). No NCAA wins - ever. No NIT appearances - ever. Average RPI past 5 years - 185.

Billy Donlon stating - Playing UD would do absolutely nothing for the Wright State program.

End of discussion.

Edit: Corrected coach's name, but when he makes stupid statements like that I try to forget him.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by rollo Not playing Wright State has more to do with us having 'nothing to gain/everything to lose' than it does with their SOS, which is exactly why Ohio State, UC and _avier won't be scheduling UD any time soon. In that aspect, we are tOSU's Wright State. Do you think that if Wright State cracked the RPI top 100 for a dozen straight years that we'd schedule them? I don't because no matter what WSU does with respect to success (nothing to gain, everything to lose) or failure (anchor on our schedule) on the court, we'll always have a legitimate excuse to ignore them...just as UC, tOSU and _avier do to us.

I vehemently disagree. I could care less about playing WSU because they frankly just aren't any good.

But imagine a world where a team from the Horizon League emerged into national relevance? What if that Horizon team was consistently on the edge of an at-large bid, or even consistently top 25? I would whole-heartedly want to play that team year-in and year-out.

No, not Butler. WSU. Not because they're in Dayton--that's just geographic coincidence. We have something to gain by playing a local game with a team with an RPI sub-100 (preferably sub-75). We have little to lose, unless you're so paranoid about losing that you don't want to play Butler, Wichita State, or _avier either.

The same is true of tOSU. A game against UD would not hurt tOSU's RPI, would potentially add to their "good wins" while rarely risk being a "bad loss," and frankly they could cherry pick our program for 2:1 deals when we're on the upswing and drop us when it doesn't make sense.

I do not accept your premise.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Gazoo The same is true of tOSU. A game against UD would not hurt tOSU's RPI

But a loss to UD would hurt their perceived status and ability to recruit. Not every game is measured by its affect on RPI and SOS...it's often gauged by the much bigger picture.

I don't care if UD becomes #1 in the USAToday Poll, #1 in RPI and #1 in SOS, tOSU will keep their backs turned until and unless they steal Miller from us and a home-and-home is forced down their throat.

[San Diego Flyer]

We don't need a reason to not schedule WSU, but the Selection Committee gave us a wakeup call anyway. You feast on teams over 200 RPI and your anemic SOS will put you at #69 or worse the next time.

We HAVE to make some scheduling adjustments and get a stronger ooc batch of opponents. WSU fits NOWHERE in that strategy. Some folks like the strategy of hoping the teams we scheduled this year will play better next year. I'm not one of those, but including WSU would be the very last thing on my agenda.

Up until this post-season we never had the message sent to us louder or clearer by the people who count. This message puts a cap on all the other reasons not to schedule them, which are abundant.

[Figgie123]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Billy Donovan stating - Playing UD would do absolutely nothing for the Wright State program.

Why should the University of Florida have any say in the Dayton - Wright State rivalry?

(It's Billy Donlon, btw. Just cracking a joke, here. )

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Figgie123 Why should the University of Florida have any say in the Dayton - Wright State rivalry? (It's Billy Donlon, btw. Just cracking a joke, here. )

Good catch. That is how much I care about WSU - can't even get the coach's name right.

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN With this discussion of teams not willing to play UD, why do Wright State and UD not play a home & home annually? I would think this would be a big rivalry and at least add some intrigue to an otherwise boring out of conference schedule like with Cincinnati and Xavier?

I try NOT to criticize postings here but BORING is the topic you raised here!

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by AC91 No because there is no imaginable scenario where this matchup would matter to anyone outside of dayton. UC-XU works primarily because there is national interest and an annual TV game, and it is a terrific arrangement of mutual benefit. Ohio St can afford to not schedule it because, due to their conference and their name, they can get a TV game anytime they want with just about anyone they want, so sentimental regional matchups do not matter to them. UD keeps the trajectory up and there will be more and more games that will garner national attention for us, not because our opponents want to play us, but because the people with money will want to show it.

So you're sayin' that even if Tom Hanks bankrolls the game and puts it on HBO (for those not aware TH is in deep with the WSU theater department) there still wouldn't be any interest in national exposure?

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 I don't think this is necessarily the case. It is with Matta at the helm, but I know there are a lot of influential fans/boosters that would like OSU to play some in-state rivals. Life after Matta may be very different, depending on the new coach and his thoughts on the matter.

As has been discussed in other threads .... when Archie leaves here for tOSU we get to play a H & H game with the Bucknuts!

[flyerfanatic86]

Originally Posted by rollo But a loss to UD would hurt their perceived status and ability to recruit. Not every game is measured by its affect on RPI and SOS...it's often gauged by the much bigger picture. I don't care if UD becomes #1 in the USAToday Poll, #1 in RPI and #1 in SOS, tOSU will keep their backs turned until and unless they steal Miller from us and a home-and-home is forced down their throat.

I get that that's their reasoning. I disagree with the entire premise. We could beat them every year for ten years, and it's going to be about how they do on the national stage that determines their position in the basketball landscape. Make the tournament and win. Players aren't going to pick a school based on the outcome of one game each season.

If Richmond dominated VCU for several years, but VCU continued performing better in the post season, do you think Richmond will start winning recruits over VCU? It's not likely.

Some of their fans argue that the DDN headline after our tournament win is Exhibit A why they shouldn't play in-state schools. It's actually the opposite. If UD, or UC, or x played OSU fairly regularly, it wouldn't be such a big deal when they lost a game to an in-state school. When you never give them an opportunity and you hold yourself out as the standard bearer of basketball in the state, well then what do you expect when OSU loses the game when it's forced upon them?

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by rollo But a loss to UD would hurt their perceived status and ability to recruit. Not every game is measured by its affect on RPI and SOS...it's often gauged by the much bigger picture.

Perceived by WHOM??? Ability as measured HOW?? These are statements made without justifiable support.

tOSU lost to Iowa twice this year. Name a recruit who was going to attend tOSU who has now switched to Iowa. There isn't one because recruits don't think that way, they think in terms of post-season success.

Oh, but WSU is in our hometown you say. A local recruit might choose WSU instead of UD if we lose you say. I say: BS. If WSU goes 1-25 every year, and that 1 win every year is against UD, we will not lose a single recruit to WSU because of it. Not if their RPI is 30 or 300.

We WILL lose recruits if we don't consistently make the NCAA tournament and rank at the top of our conference. There is no school who single-handedly brought down another local "superior" school by playing them once per year. And there is no school who single-handedly rose from the ashes just by playing 1 game per year against a local "superior" school.

It's not true, and tOSU knows it's not true. UD knows it's not true with WSU. We won't play WSU because they're consistently bad and we can't easily stop the series once started.

So why won't tOSU play us? It's no more complicated than this: it's the bigger d**k theory. And tOSU doesn't want to pull their pants down. Absolutely no harm would come from playing us, they just don't like sending their fans home feeling empty when they lose. They will play WSU at home (100-55) and Miami at home (93-55) because there's virtually no risk of losing. And they'll play Marquette and Louisville because those are "name" schools so it's OK to lose to them. But not 1 recruit will be lost, and not 1 season ticket package will be non-renewed, if they play UD and we beat them.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan As for Miami, they were pathetic. I do not care what history we have, we need to look for better, more competitive options for a home and home series. I understand the arguement for wanting a somewhat local road game early in the season for the RPI boost when we win, but given the recent lack of success by the Redhawks, half the other MAC teams would be better options to consider if we want to stay local for a road trip.

I get the sentiment here, and to be honest, I am not sure I disagree. But I also got to wonder how we would have felt a few years back if Miami had turned their back on us when we were winning 4 games per year.

Many are upset with Xavier because it appears they have deserted us, but we are more than willing to do it to others because we do not feel they are now on our level. Probably how X felt a few short years ago - now they are just afraid . There is something to be said for having a history with a team.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UDGutter2]

The last game in the series was a 94-63 UD victory/snoozefest. I believe a buy game with Towson St. out drew it that year. People didn't support it so a home and home is a no no.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Perceived by WHOM??? Ability as measured HOW?? These are statements made without justifiable support. tOSU lost to Iowa twice this year. Name a recruit who was going to attend tOSU who has now switched to Iowa. There isn't one because recruits don't think that way, they think in terms of post-season success. Oh, but WSU is in our hometown you say. A local recruit might choose WSU instead of UD if we lose you say. I say: BS. If WSU goes 1-25 every year, and that 1 win every year is against UD, we will not lose a single recruit to WSU because of it. Not if their RPI is 30 or 300. We WILL lose recruits if we don't consistently make the NCAA tournament and rank at the top of our conference. There is no school who single-handedly brought down another local "superior" school by playing them once per year. And there is no school who single-handedly rose from the ashes just by playing 1 game per year against a local "superior" school. It's not true, and tOSU knows it's not true. UD knows it's not true with WSU. We won't play WSU because they're consistently bad and we can't easily stop the series once started. So why won't tOSU play us? It's no more complicated than this: it's the bigger d**k theory. And tOSU doesn't want to pull their pants down. Absolutely no harm would come from playing us, they just don't like sending their fans home feeling empty when they lose. They will play WSU at home (100-55) and Miami at home (93-55) because there's virtually no risk of losing. And they'll play Marquette and Louisville because those are "name" schools so it's OK to lose to them. But not 1 recruit will be lost, and not 1 season ticket package will be non-renewed, if they play UD and we beat them.

You're funny when you're mad.

You also use ridiculous examples that take away from any point you're trying to make while at the same time using other examples that support my premise...see post #20.

Regardless, tOSU does what they want with their non-confernce schedule...because they are THE OSU and don't have to do what anyone else wants. Yes, they have, as you implied, the biggest d*ck on the playground of recruits we share. And they know it...and so does every other school in Ohio.

[UACFlyer]

The UD athletics administration has been around the block a few times. They recognize fully how important men's BB is to UD....they understand the importance of making the NCAAs and performing well...and they understand the importance wise OOC scheduling plays in achieving the U's objectives.

They get it! And, as I see the matter UD is doing a pretty good job considering the big picture, including OOC scheduling.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by rollo You're funny when you're mad. You also use ridiculous examples that take away from any point you're trying to make while at the same time using other examples that support my premise...see post #20. Regardless, tOSU does what they want with their non-confernce schedule...because they are THE OSU and don't have to do what anyone else wants. Yes, they have, as you implied, the biggest d*ck on the playground of recruits we share. And they know it...and so does every other school in Ohio.

Doesn't it really come down to that - everyone schedules in their own best interest. Right now it is not in UD's best interest to schedule a home and home with a team the quality of WSU.

[Furio]

Wright State has an RPI of 266 and lost their last 10 games to end the season.
I don't want them as a buy game at this point let alone home and home.

[anthonycharles]

Let's face it, rivalries are a dying breed out there in college sports these days. I couldn't give a rat's ass if we didn't play Wright St, Miami, X, UC or OSU. In terms of the last three, we can face them when it counts in the tourney and end their season. Thad can keep scheduling his cupcakes every season. How has that worked for him lately?

I'm much more in favor of scheduling quality home and homes. I don't care about the BCS conferences. If they will schedule us, great. If not, let's look at the quality teams in the AAC (is that officially a BCS conference, I don't even know anymore), MVC, Big East (if they will schedule us, probably won't) and Mountain West.

People need to start getting with the times and give up on the local stuff. There are plenty of good teams out there across the country to schedule. Archie has gotten this program now where it is all about March. Whatever gets us best prepared for then, I'm all for.

Time to let go of the past and look forward to the future.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by anthonycharles Let's face it, rivalries are a dying breed out there in college sports these days.

College basketball's regular season also appears to be a dying breed out there in college sports these days. Perhaps there is a correlation.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by rollo Do you think that if Wright State cracked the RPI top 100 for a dozen straight years that we'd schedule them? I don't...

I'd say several years of rpi from 50 to 60 range maybe would do the trick. If they had some NCAA's and also NIT's in there over those years that would help their case.

[Dillomernda]

Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN With all of the meaningless games broadcast nightly on ESPN's bevy of channels, IMO they would pick this game up if scheduled. People tune in to rivalry games, even when they do not have a rooting interest, just to see teams play with increased passion.

I am no expert on TV deals but I will give it my best. ESPN has contracts with conferences to show a certain amount of home games for a conference each year. With a larger conference, those tend to be much more than what the A-10 is assigned. With only so many limited A-10 game slots, ESPN will only choose the "best" matchup when it comes to drawing eyeballs. As a result, the matchups nationally televised on ESPN tend to be better name games. Hope it helped.

[Piqua Flyer '66]

Had to check my calendar - thought I had lost the Summer/Fall of 2015!
My annual thought of UD-WSU on ESPN has nothing to do with the nation wanting to see those two teams (but with their last two NCAA appearances the Flyers might draw more interest) but everything to do with playing it on MLK Day - a day on which folks are looking to honor MLK. School is out all over the USA. TV is looking for a good MLK line.
While I got you here - and the discussion above about SOS, etc - I don't want to tell you that I told you so - but I told you so......Big 5 Conf get advantage.....can you say Texas, Indiana, UCLA? Football and 100,000 butts in the stands on Sat runs the NCAA. In Feb folks on this board were talking 7-8 seed for UD - we WERE THE LAST TEAM IN regardless how well we played - in the future the Big 5 will run their own nat'l championship and the rest of us non-football folks will have a good "NIT".

[sheg]

ESPN? Pshaw. We'd be lucky to get it covered on cable access after a rerun of Wayne's World.

[Fudd]

Wright State is really, really bad.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 Had to check my calendar - thought I had lost the Summer/Fall of 2015! My annual thought of UD-WSU on ESPN has nothing to do with the nation wanting to see those two teams (but with their last two NCAA appearances the Flyers might draw more interest) but everything to do with playing it on MLK Day - a day on which folks are looking to honor MLK. School is out all over the USA. TV is looking for a good MLK line. While I got you here - and the discussion above about SOS, etc - I don't want to tell you that I told you so - but I told you so......Big 5 Conf get advantage.....can you say Texas, Indiana, UCLA? Football and 100,000 butts in the stands on Sat runs the NCAA. In Feb folks on this board were talking 7-8 seed for UD - we WERE THE LAST TEAM IN regardless how well we played - in the future the Big 5 will run their own nat'l championship and the rest of us non-football folks will have a good "NIT".

I'm not sure what the point of your last paragraph is. That is a good reason for NOT playing WSU. You think playing a team with a 10-20 record and an RPI of 266 would have helped our resume?

[hawkoooo]

What we really should be asking is why can't we get some sort of annual round-robin tournament going where Miami, Xavier, Wright State, Dayton, and Cincinnati all play each other. Rotate H, A, and N. Team with most wins takes home a trophy and bragging rights.

Would anyone on this board complain if a game with WSU and Miami also meant a game with UC and X? Didn't think so.

That would be 10 total games by my count. Three of those 10 were played last year anyway.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Buster Goode]

The value I collected from the 5 minutes skimming this thread.....Tom Hanks is entrenched into the Wright State theater department... uh, what?

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo What we really should be asking is why can't we get some sort of annual round-robin tournament going where Miami, Xavier, Wright State, Dayton, and Cincinnati all play each other. Rotate H, A, and N. Team with most wins takes home a trophy and bragging rights. Would anyone on this board complain if a game with WSU and Miami also meant a game with UC and X? Didn't think so. That would be 10 total games by my count. Three of those 10 were played last year anyway.

Because X and UC wouldn't do it.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Because X and UC wouldn't do it.

They've scheduled all of those teams in the past and will do so in the future. I don't see the difference.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo What we really should be asking is why can't we get some sort of annual round-robin tournament going where Miami, Xavier, Wright State, Dayton, and Cincinnati all play each other. Rotate H, A, and N. Team with most wins takes home a trophy and bragging rights. Would anyone on this board complain if a game with WSU and Miami also meant a game with UC and X? Didn't think so. That would be 10 total games by my count. Three of those 10 were played last year anyway.

I don't share your passion for playing X or UC. Especially if that included Miami and the Raiders. OOC RPI has been ok, it's the conference that poses a problem. We can't control the conference strength but we can offset it more than we already do by scheduling a couple of stronger teams. We would still have buy games, just not as many. Playing the Redhawks and Raiders is not a step in the right direction. Scheduling a couple mid pack P5, or top level mid-majors would be, in my view, the way to go

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Lifelong Flyer Fan]

Originally Posted by Buster Goode The value I collected from the 5 minutes skimming this thread.....Tom Hanks is entrenched into the Wright State theater department... uh, what?

If you google "Tom Hanks Wright State" you will get quite a number of hits explaining his connection.
He is also doing an HBO miniseries on the Wright Brothers:
http://www.whio.com/news/news/local/...iseries/nkwSs/
http://deadline.com/2015/04/the-wrig...ne-1201410140/

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by sheg ESPN? Pshaw. We'd be lucky to get it covered on cable access after a rerun of Wayne's World.

ESPN would likely pick the game up, but not for the reasons people may think. They have contracts with both the Horizon League and the Atlantic Ten. If they're able to count it as one of the Horizon League games that they're contractually obligated to show, then chances are they would put it on.

I've said this before, but I don't know what constitutes a "Horizon League Game" or an "Atlantic Ten Game" if it's an out of conference game. I guess it depends on the contract. It's not even necessarily who the home team is.

So, in short, ESPN would likely carry it, but it wouldn't be a made for TV event with a payout for both teams (although UD would likely get a little something). It would just be part of the conference contract that's already in place.

[xubrew]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo What we really should be asking is why can't we get some sort of annual round-robin tournament going where Miami, Xavier, Wright State, Dayton, and Cincinnati all play each other. Rotate H, A, and N. Team with most wins takes home a trophy and bragging rights. Would anyone on this board complain if a game with WSU and Miami also meant a game with UC and X? Didn't think so. That would be 10 total games by my count. Three of those 10 were played last year anyway.

And, it could be an exempt event. So for the years you weren't in the Maui or whatever, you could count this as exempt and still get to play 31 games. And for the two weeks this event was going on (Exempt events must take place within a span of fourteen days), college basketball would own the front pages of the sports section in November and/or December, which can't be a bad thing.

But, like he said....

Originally Posted by longtimefan Because X and UC wouldn't do it.

I think that's what it boils down to. They just don't want to play. Cupcakes taste better than vegetables, I guess.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by rollo You're funny when you're mad. You also use ridiculous examples that take away from any point you're trying to make while at the same time using other examples that support my premise...see post #20. Regardless, tOSU does what they want with their non-confernce schedule...because they are THE OSU and don't have to do what anyone else wants. Yes, they have, as you implied, the biggest d*ck on the playground of recruits we share. And they know it...and so does every other school in Ohio.

Your post #20: they just don't WANT to play us. I get that, it's because they don't want to pull their pants down. It's NOT because of any recruiting reason. That's simply false. They just don't like to lose.

UD could sign a 20 year contract to play them as a buy game on their court, win all 20, and we still won't get a single recruit from them if we don't win an NCAA game during those 20 years.

By the same token, we could never play them under any circumstances, get invited to the NCAA tournament every year for the next 20 years, and tOSU would still have a huge recruiting advantage over us. They're still going to get who they want because they're in the B10 and have an athletic budget of about a gadzillion dollars.

Borrowing the "it's the economy stupid" line: it's the postseason stupid. A December game against a local school means exactly squat.

By not playing us, they're really not helping or hurting us. We have options. They're not adding or detracting from our credibility. That comes from winning your conference and in the post-season. We're not hurting or helping them. Their RPI won't take a hit and we won't keep them out of the post-season. They just don't want to lose (not saying they're "afraid"). If we agree on this point, then fine. But just don't make any arguments about RPI, or equate this to WSU, because it's NOT the same.

There is 1 major difference when it comes to WSU: if we lost to WSU it WOULD hurt our RPI in a huge way and quite possibly keep us out of the NCAA tournament. Heck it hurts our RPI if we win.

You are not offering any counter argument, you're just being smug (which I can appreciate ).

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Gazoo You are not offering any counter argument, you're just being smug (which I can appreciate ).

Guilty as charged!

[TX Flyer]

I didnt know WSU still played basketball...I'd pony up $150 a ticket to sit in nose bleeds for this intense rivalry game

When I was in school I took a class each semester at WSU as part of my program. The only game that I ever saw fans show up for was a Butler game and I think it was the conference tournament game or championship. Dont even know if it was butler or WSU fans who showed up though

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo They've scheduled all of those teams in the past and will do so in the future. I don't see the difference.

So you are saying that X and UC are going to schedule UD. Can't wait to see them on the schedule.

[Go-UD-Go]

Here is what I have experienced.

When I first started following UD, ~1980, the schedule was full of rivalries. ND, Cincinnati, DePaul, Marquette, Xavier and Miami. We played these teams about every year and good or bad it was enjoyable they were our natural rivals. Now, we have no real rivals and it is not as much fun. Yes it is lots of fun to make a splash in the post season, but can't we have both? Can't we have rivals and post season success?

I would enjoy playing WSU. I would enjoy having more fans in the Nuthouse than Wright State. I enjoyed the students chanting "(W)right state, wrong school". I would like WSU to be not crappy, but I would play them anyway.

I follow the Flyers because it is fun. Rivalries are fun. Develop rivalries where you can.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Go-UD-Go .......I would enjoy playing WSU. I would enjoy having more fans in the Nuthouse than Wright State. I enjoyed the students chanting "(W)right state, wrong school". I would like WSU to be not crappy, but I would play them anyway. I follow the Flyers because it is fun. Rivalries are fun. Develop rivalries where you can.

Fun is good...but for our U it's much more than "fun". BB is a business and a very important promotional tool that very few mid-majors enjoy. No more than a handful of schools like UD put 12,000 fans in the seats day in day out while being the focal point of attention in the cities they represent.

Nothing, but nothing, that goes on at UD carries the name of the U from coast to coast the way BB does. Money can't buy that; but a successful BB has and does. This is very important to our U...a crown jewel that has to be carefully managed. You can't screw this up. Actually, it's amazing that it has endured through such a long dry spell.

And, the nature of the game has changed fast and dramatically. These days continued success requires consistent post season success which requires success in conference play and thoughtful OOC scheduling. That is a challenge, the nature of which is changing constantly.

Meaningful home-and-home series with good opponents are difficult to arrange and buy games are becoming more difficult as well as regards cost and reasonable quality. This is hard. UD's administration knows how to play this game....but it's not easy. UD came within a breath of missing the Dance this year..it could not have been a closer call. Too close for comfort.

I'm sure an exceptionally high priority re scheduling for next year and beyond is focused on providing a bit more breathing space come Selection Sunday. With that in mind...every game on the schedule is important. That's not the case for the vast majority of schools in UD's situation. Fun is good....but other things are more important.

[College B-Ball Fan]

Originally Posted by Go-UD-Go Here is what I have experienced. When I first started following UD, ~1980, the schedule was full of rivalries. ND, Cincinnati, DePaul, Marquette, Xavier and Miami. We played these teams about every year and good or bad it was enjoyable they were our natural rivals. Now, we have no real rivals and it is not as much fun. Yes it is lots of fun to make a splash in the post season, but can't we have both? Can't we have rivals and post season success? I would enjoy playing WSU. I would enjoy having more fans in the Nuthouse than Wright State. I enjoyed the students chanting "(W)right state, wrong school". I would like WSU to be not crappy, but I would play them anyway. I follow the Flyers because it is fun. Rivalries are fun. Develop rivalries where you can.

Come on Go-go! Lots of us began going to UD games when the schedule was loaded with the "ranked" Depaul's, ND's, Xavier's, etc. That was 30+ years ago for the most part and UD and the UD athletic department would love nothing more than to have those games back on our schedule on a yearly basis! IN terms of scheduling these teams into the arena--------it takes 2 to "tango"!

Why do you think all of the effort has been placed on building the Donoher Center (now spending 2+ million on renovations), all of the on campus athletic improvements, the expenditures on the Women's & "other" Men's sports over the last 20+ years, etc.? Trust me none of it was spent hoping that we could establish rivalries with WSU on the basketball court!

UD has been doing everything within it's "control" for a long, long time to return to the scheduling days of old! Hopefully, with the ongoing success of our Men's hoops program, the ongoing incredible success of our University on the whole as well as the ongoing successes attributable to all of our our "other" sports programs we will be added to the big east at some point in the next couple of years!

If "that" happens------your "scheduling" wishes will comes true! Mine too!

Playing WSU is a non-starter! Glad we play them in most sports but as UAC said above---this ain't women's softball or club bowling (please understand I know WSU has a great club bowling team, baseball team tradition, etc.) we are talking about!

Men's basketball at UD remains the "bread winner" for the entire athletic department and no matter what we are doing at the research institute and with folks like GE, etc. none of that makes quite the impact nationally that a run into the elite 8 or sweet 16 does-----did!

We have little if any "room" to make in terms of our Men's hoops scheduling (given the way the NCAA selection committee works) and the least of the athletic departments worries is trying to create a rivalry with Wright State University! Sorry if that sounds a bit "cold" hearted but,----!

WSU is a nice local commuter school, continue's top strive to be better than that, and has made some very important steps along that course academically-------in terms of there research dollars, programs, etc. but there is NO REASON to schedule them---especially for the sake of creating a Men's basketball "rivalry" with them IMHO?

Heck, I was at all the previous games----and it was apparent by all the games/attendance numbers (including the game's at WSU) that the WSU fans just weren't "into it" judging by there numbers!

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[Tony T 71]

[Buster Goode]

Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN With this discussion of teams not willing to play UD, why do Wright State and UD not play a home & home annually? I would think this would be a big rivalry and at least add some intrigue to an otherwise boring out of conference schedule like with Cincinnati and Xavier?

I never meant to cause you any sorrow
I never meant to cause you any pain
I only wanted one time to see you laughing
I only want to see you laughing in the stupid thread

[CE80]

Originally Posted by Buster Goode I never meant to cause you any sorrow I never meant to cause you any pain I only wanted one time to see you laughing I only want to see you laughing in the stupid thread

Great now we have a Prince to go along with the King.

[shocka43]

Did you know that banging your head into a wall burns 150 calories per hour?

[dUDe]

There are two schools of thought here. Should UD do what's best for the community or should they do what's best for UD? Pick a camp and take a side I guess. I have been to several UD-WSU games. It was great for the city.

UD wasn't the last team in last season because they scheduled Miami. They were the last team in because they weren't a good enough team to beat Duquesne and Lasalle on the road. With a field of 68 all of the worthy teams get in and a bunch of unworthy teams as well. If you're worried about a WSU game keeping us out of the tournament, build a better team!

Those against this game are like politicians who manipulate voting districts to get an edge. Their ideas should win, not manipulating the system. Bad losses are our problem, not bad wins.

I am a 20 year season ticket holder, I love UD basketball and always will. But I do think they should do what's best for the region and have this game. I think they are on track to having a program that would have nothing to fear in scheduling it. As a dedicated fan, if my team is in a state where a WSU win knocks us out of the tournament...I'm willing to concede that it isn't our year. The positive energy for basketball and for our city is well worth that to me.

This is an "agree to disagree" issue here. We all have our opinions and that's fine. Hopefully WSU will be able to build their program back up. It would be fun. I'll never forget Chris Daniels posterizing Vitaly Potapenko and walking him down out of bounds prompting Potapenko shove him and earn a technical foul. We smoked them and their NBA player that day. The house was rocking and all the bars were full of fans. It was a great event for the city.

These schools are part of our town. I fall on the side of civic pride. I'll take being the first team out and building a great thing in our city over being the last team in and caring only for my own bottom line.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by dUDe There are two schools of thought here. Should UD do what's best for the community or should they do what's best for UD? . . .

Fixing pot holes would be good for the community, but that lies outside the purview of UD athletics' mission.
As does scheduling Wright State in men's basketball

_____________________
Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

[longtimefan]

I have been to every UD/WSU game and I fail to see how any of them were "good for the city" (or good for UD). If this game was supposed to rock the house somebody forgot to tell the fans, as only 11,657 showed up for the last one, and UD won (in a thriller) by 31 points. If the city, the region, and the fans were clamoring for this game it should have sold out. WSU fans didn't even show up.

[NCkevi]

Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN With this discussion of teams not willing to play UD, why do Wright State and UD not play a home & home annually? I would think this would be a big rivalry and at least add some intrigue to an otherwise boring out of conference schedule like with Cincinnati and Xavier?

ohhh the excitment of playing a bottom dwelling Horizon League team with an RPI in the 200s (if we're lucky)! I can't wait - we should drop the home-home with Arkansas to make room for this barn burner of a series. In fact, we could play a home-home series every season and add a home-home with Sinclair - that gives us our 3 non buy or tournament games and we'll never have to leave Dayton for a road game until A10 play!! That will surely prepare us for conference and post season play.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by dUDe There are two schools of thought here. Should UD do what's best for the community or should they do what's best for UD? ....

The "Dayton community" got more recognition and positive PR over the last two years by the Flyers Elite 8 runs than it has in memory.

Last year and this year the word "Dayton" emblazoned across the Flyer's jerseys was seen my millions over several days along with much positive commentary. Money can't buy that.

Thus, a solid argument can be made that what's "best for the Community" is a highly successful UD basketball program. Keep that ball rolling and the City will benefit a plenty.

[m21eagle45]

If Wright State is willing to be a buy game then sign me up. If not, then pass. Looking at their current trajectory that is all they are worth right now. With that said, I am also 1 that is against playing Miami Oh so I am not just saying this for WSU.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 If Wright State is willing to be a buy game then sign me up. If not, then pass.

That still seems like a losing strategy. Pay them 6 figures to further degrade our SOS? What's wrong with this picture?

[priceg75]

Not that I support a game with WSU, but what's the difference between paying Delaware State to come here versus Wright State? They both degrade our SOS.

[San Diego Flyer]

We don't want to play Delaware State either. We need better buy-in opponents.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer That still seems like a losing strategy. Pay them 6 figures to further degrade our SOS? What's wrong with this picture?

Typically WSU does not have an RPI in the 260's. If you check out their past RPI's they are in the 150 range which does not hurt you as a buy game. When Brownell was there they were a top 100 RPI team. They have gone down under Donlon.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Typically WSU does not have an RPI in the 260's. If you check out their past RPI's they are in the 150 range which does not hurt you as a buy game. When Brownell was there they were a top 100 RPI team. They have gone down under Donlon.

Sort of...agree about Brownell and typically being better than 260...but the 2013 and 2014 Horizon tourney final featured WSU losing twice...the 2014 final was their big chance: favored by 6 at home vs. Milwaukee and lost.


Brownell was definitely the high water mark...4 straight years of double digit rpi's.



Wright St Raiders RPI History

Season Record RPI Rank SOS Rank
2014-2015 9-19 0.4587 249 0.4935 165
2013-2014 18-14 0.4939 172 0.4636 252
2012-2013 20-12 0.5202 130 0.4787 210
2011-2012 12-19 0.4661 224 0.4968 164
2010-2011 17-14 0.5211 124 0.5141 130
2009-2010 20-12 0.5539 80 0.5110 141
2008-2009 20-13 0.5395 93 0.5143 124
2007-2008 21-10 0.5481 86 0.5046 148
2006-2007 23-9 0.5618 72 0.4941 159
2005-2006 12-15 0.4866 179 0.4964 160
2004-2005 15-15 0.4890 173 0.4881 177
2003-2004 14-13 0.4902 163 0.4807 192
2002-2003 9-18 0.4589 237 0.5007 144
2001-2002 16-11 0.5130 126 0.4865 184
2000-2001 17-11 0.5185 122 0.4889 164
1999-2000 11-17 0.4522 225 0.4720 215
1998-1999 8-18 0.4271 256 0.4669 213
1997-1998 9-18 0.4800 174 0.5289 88
1996-1997 6-20 0.4186 264 0.4812 183
1995-1996 13-13 0.5122 117 0.5162 109
1994-1995 12-17 0.4943 153 0.5212 105
1993-1994 11-17 0.4434 226 0.4602 239
© 1994-2011 by Palm Sports Resources, Inc. All rights reserved.

[jack72]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer We don't want to play Delaware State either. We need better buy-in opponents.

We need better buy in opponents, but pretty hard to do. You roll the dice when you sign one that they will be closer to 125 than 225.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by ud2 Sort of...agree about Brownell and typically being better than 260...but the 2013 and 2014 Horizon tourney final featured WSU losing twice...the 2014 final was their big chance: favored by 6 at home vs. Milwaukee and lost. Brownell was definitely the high water mark...4 straight years of double digit rpi's. Wright St Raiders RPI History Season Record RPI Rank SOS Rank 2014-2015 9-19 0.4587 249 0.4935 165 2013-2014 18-14 0.4939 172 0.4636 252 2012-2013 20-12 0.5202 130 0.4787 210 2011-2012 12-19 0.4661 224 0.4968 164 2010-2011 17-14 0.5211 124 0.5141 130 2009-2010 20-12 0.5539 80 0.5110 141 2008-2009 20-13 0.5395 93 0.5143 124 2007-2008 21-10 0.5481 86 0.5046 148 2006-2007 23-9 0.5618 72 0.4941 159 2005-2006 12-15 0.4866 179 0.4964 160 2004-2005 15-15 0.4890 173 0.4881 177 2003-2004 14-13 0.4902 163 0.4807 192 2002-2003 9-18 0.4589 237 0.5007 144 2001-2002 16-11 0.5130 126 0.4865 184 2000-2001 17-11 0.5185 122 0.4889 164 1999-2000 11-17 0.4522 225 0.4720 215 1998-1999 8-18 0.4271 256 0.4669 213 1997-1998 9-18 0.4800 174 0.5289 88 1996-1997 6-20 0.4186 264 0.4812 183 1995-1996 13-13 0.5122 117 0.5162 109 1994-1995 12-17 0.4943 153 0.5212 105 1993-1994 11-17 0.4434 226 0.4602 239 © 1994-2011 by Palm Sports Resources, Inc. All rights reserved.

Current trailing 5-year average of 180, peaked at a 5-year average of 91. That's just not home-home kind of opponent quality. It's buy-game opponent quality (once they get their act back together).

I'd be interested to see how those number compare to UD and tOSU to prove the point.

[ud2]

Taking a second look at those numbers, I didn't realize how much they have fallen back under Donlon, I imagine that he may be on the hot seat heading into 2015-2016.

Both UD and OSU are on a much higher level.


Dayton Flyers RPI History

Season Record RPI Rank SOS Rank
2014-2015 22-6 0.5908 29 0.5149 122
2013-2014 23-10 0.5837 43 0.5539 61
2012-2013 17-14 0.5287 114 0.5370 95
2011-2012 20-12 0.5546 81 0.5425 68
2010-2011 22-13 0.5608 70 0.5455 69
2009-2010 20-12 0.5769 54 0.5661 33
2008-2009 26-7 0.6037 27 0.5319 95
2007-2008 21-10 0.5906 32 0.5645 33
2006-2007 19-12 0.5573 75 0.5431 76
2005-2006 13-17 0.4835 183 0.5183 112
2004-2005 18-11 0.5205 126 0.4945 162
2003-2004 24-8 0.5864 40 0.5319 84
2002-2003 24-5 0.6212 13 0.5525 54
2001-2002 20-10 0.5599 62 0.5243 93
2000-2001 19-12 0.5538 72 0.5341 83
1999-2000 22-8 0.5736 43 0.5204 108
1998-1999 11-17 0.4933 157 0.5268 95
1997-1998 20-11 0.5594 59 0.5309 84
1996-1997 13-14 0.4863 172 0.4879 161
1995-1996 15-14 0.4833 177 0.4720 202
1994-1995 7-20 0.4635 194 0.5316 77
1993-1994 5-21 0.4581 208 0.5467 62
© 1994-2011 by Palm Sports Resources, Inc. All rights reserved.



Ohio State Buckeyes RPI History

Season Record RPI Rank SOS Rank
2014-2015 20-8 0.5832 43 0.5423 79
2013-2014 25-9 0.6111 24 0.5777 16
2012-2013 26-7 0.6364 10 0.5857 11
2011-2012 27-7 0.6379 7 0.5890 7
2010-2011 32-2 0.6723 2 0.5770 23
2009-2010 27-7 0.6128 22 0.5480 63
2008-2009 22-10 0.6002 32 0.5781 24
2007-2008 19-13 0.5732 49 0.5720 18
2006-2007 30-3 0.6720 1 0.5848 12
2005-2006 25-5 0.6400 5 0.5755 25
2004-2005 20-12 0.5667 51 0.5534 55
2003-2004 14-16 0.5011 147 0.5126 125
2002-2003 17-14 0.5687 54 0.5755 17
2001-2002 23-7 0.6086 17 0.5560 44
2000-2001 20-10 0.5878 34 0.5615 43
1999-2000 22-6 0.5966 24 0.5335 85
1998-1999 22-8 0.6020 20 0.5582 37
1997-1998 8-22 0.4773 182 0.5475 55
1996-1997 10-17 0.5068 130 0.5522 53
1995-1996 10-17 0.4971 150 0.5393 68
1994-1995 6-22 0.4614 196 0.5438 57
1993-1994 12-16 0.5545 66 0.5965 3
© 1994-2011 by Palm Sports Resources, Inc. All rights reserved.

[UDDoug]

WSU as a buy game is fine.

But I don't think they want any part of one way games at UD.

Given the SOS nearly cost a bid last year (and the "rules" for a bid are fluid to be what the committee wants in a given year), you can't add a WSU as a home and home.

[BRob2Perryman3]

Originally Posted by UDDoug WSU as a buy game is fine. But I don't think they want any part of one way games at UD. Given the SOS nearly cost a bid last year (and the "rules" for a bid are fluid to be what the committee wants in a given year), you can't add a WSU as a home and home.

100% agree. And what the committee selects is conducive to getting the Power 5 schools and their legions of fans eyes on the TV screens (commercials) All about money. Its disgusting.UCLA and Texas getting in was beyond absurd.

Slightly off topic but pertinent, simply swap the names not the resumes, is there a single soul that thinks TCU jumps OSU for the playoff spot in football last year.

All about $$$$$

[bobber]

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 100% agree. And what the committee selects is conducive to getting the Power 5 schools and their legions of fans eyes on the TV screens (commercials) All about money. Its disgusting.UCLA and Texas getting in was beyond absurd. Slightly off topic but pertinent, simply swap the names not the resumes, is there a single soul that thinks TCU jumps OSU for the playoff spot in football last year. All about $$$$$

Indeed, it has always been about the money. But these days it is more blatant than ever before.

The Selection Committee has found the magic canard: Strength of schedule is everything. Playing top 50 teams is the most important ingredient in picking NCAA Tourney teams.

Of course, the deck is totally stacked in favor of the P5 teams with this maneuver. So we will have to schedule accordingly. Luckily, we are one of the few non-p5 schools that can sort of survive this thinly disguised treachery.

[Canonball]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Current trailing 5-year average of 180, peaked at a 5-year average of 91. That's just not home-home kind of opponent quality. It's buy-game opponent quality (once they get their act back together). I'd be interested to see how those number compare to UD and tOSU to prove the point.

For the record I'm not a fan of playing them. However is this any worse than any of our other buy games?

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Canonball For the record I'm not a fan of playing them. However is this any worse than any of our other buy games?

No, which is what I said, it's buy-game quality. Not now (~250) but after they get back on track (100-150). Buy games below 150 are a mistake in my opinion.

But I think we all know they won't accept a buy game.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Gazoo But I think we all know they won't accept a buy game.

I think the WSU fans/administration are a little delusional/have an inflated self image, and I'm sorry to say that.

What other good programs have they recently been able to schedule a home and home series with? It is a very bitter pill to swallow realizing that a team in your own city is superior.

They've got good facilities: a 10,000 seat arena, and I hear that their practice facility next door to the Nutter Center/sort of just off the Nutter Center parking lot is pretty nice, and I think Donlon might be one of the highest paid coaches in the Horizon League, but their fan support is lacking.

I think now that UD has taken a step up in class with AM, they may be more open to playing a buy game.

I think before AM got here, with four straight sub 100 rpi seasons with Brownell, I think they thought that they were getting closer to UD's level. They did finish with a better rpi than UD after Brownell's first year.

They've got the Gem City Jam history on their Wikipedia page:


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrigh...l#Gem_City_Jam


The Wright State and University of Dayton series is known as the Gem City Jam. The two universities are located in Dayton, Ohio, only 10 miles apart from each other. Although the two schools no longer play men's basketball, they still compete against each other in other sports. The series currently favors Dayton at 5-3. The last meeting was held at the University of Dayton on December 13, 1997, Dayton won 94-63.

Date Location Result

March 5, 1988 Dayton L 71-89
January 6, 1990 Dayton W 101-99
December 11, 1993 Dayton L 56-83
January 8, 1994 Wright State W 77-65
December 12, 1994 Wright State W 74-53
December 9, 1995 Dayton L 80-98
January 9, 1997 Wright State L 63-72
December 13, 1997 Dayton L 63-94

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by ud2 Although the two schools no longer play men's basketball, they still compete against each other in other sports.

I would argue that only 1 of the 2 schools no longer plays men's basketball.

[Gem City]

Ok, it looks like Wright State and Miami will both play "buy games" at Xavier this year. This is just one more reason why we shouldn't play at Wright State or at Miami for that matter. Please end the Miami series and wait for Wright State to agree to a buy game at UD Arena.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[NJFlyr71]

I believe that Wstate has said a few times that they do not want to be a 'BUY game'.

Me thinks it is due to the fact they are in the same city and see themselves as equals.

But at this present time that would be like I moved next door to the Incredible Hulk and expected to be HIS equal. Or putting it another way ... having rollo move next to me!!

Just cause we live in the same area don't make us equal!

Take the buy game and be happy!