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  #1  
Old 01-11-2014, 03:46 PM
Buster Goode Buster Goode is offline
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Ladies and gentlemen...Dayton Flyer Basketball

Nothing else needs to be said....
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Old 01-11-2014, 03:51 PM
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Hope this is the bad one we got out of our system and not the start of an encore.

Now we need steal one on the road we aren't supposed to win.

Last edited by Avid Flyer; 01-11-2014 at 04:04 PM..
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Old 01-11-2014, 03:56 PM
singlet_of_truth singlet_of_truth is offline
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I am shocked that it is a Groundhog Day season once again for the Flyers. Some great non conference wins completely ****ed away by bad home losses and what are some certain as a death and taxes to come in conference road losses. But I sleep well at night knowing that no changes will be made to the personnel in our top notch admin and athletic department and that no changes will be made around the scheduling or other approach that our team takes year in and year out. With any luck they will revert back to the intro music to set the Flyer world right. I do hear that we have some great recruits coming in and that we will make the NCAA next year. Good thing we missed the NBE so we could dominate the A-10.
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by singlet_of_truth View Post
I am shocked that it is a Groundhog Day season once again for the Flyers. Some great non conference wins completely ****ed away by bad home losses and what are some certain as a death and taxes to come in conference road losses. But I sleep well at night knowing that no changes will be made to the personnel in our top notch admin and athletic department and that no changes will be made around the scheduling or other approach that our team takes year in and year out. With any luck they will revert back to the intro music to set the Flyer world right. I do hear that we have some great recruits coming in and that we will make the NCAA next year. Good thing we missed the NBE so we could dominate the A-10.
Seriously, ground hog day after one A-10 game? Our record is better than most projected. And a loss against SLU while I don't like it (living amongst SLU alumni) it is just one game. Most would have taken our 12-3 occ record when asked at the beginning of the season.
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Seriously, ground hog day after one A-10 game? Our record is better than most projected. And a loss against SLU while I don't like it (living amongst SLU alumni) it is just one game. Most would have taken our 12-3 occ record when asked at the beginning of the season.
No. Groundhog Day after year after year after year when we can't close a win on a big, critical conference game. Groundhog Day that we are trending to be another middle of the road team in a middle of the road conference.
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:28 PM
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I'm not really too disappointed in this loss. From the tip-off, the better team on the floor were the Billikens. They are better than us. Plain and simple. If you would've told me yesterday we would lose, I'd been very disappointed, but watching the game, to me, it is clear who the better team is.
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:41 PM
singlet_of_truth singlet_of_truth is offline
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What is our RPI and is it commensurate with a team that has neutral wins against Gonzaga and Cal and a near miss on Baylor and road wins against Georgia Tech and Ole Miss? We have great OOC wins that have been wasted. As usual. 2 home losses already with one against a terrible team.
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:41 PM
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So I guess we accept mediocrity one more year and an NIT game or two. I hate mediocrity.
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Old 01-11-2014, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer View Post
Seriously, ground hog day after one A-10 game? Our record is better than most projected. And a loss against SLU while I don't like it (living amongst SLU alumni) it is just one game. Most would have taken our 12-3 occ record when asked at the beginning of the season.
The problem is this Avid. This is the same pattern year after year and nothing changes. I realize it's early, but the die is cast for the A-10 season. There is no getting around it. We just don't have the player or coaching personnel necessary to get us over the hump.
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  #10  
Old 01-11-2014, 04:50 PM
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All this because we lost to a team that's only loses are to Wichita State and Wisconsin...2 top 10 teams. SLU was just better and more experienced. Let's see how things go after game 2 of A10 play huh?
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Old 01-11-2014, 05:00 PM
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Coming into this season I expected another Groundhog Day season. At this point I don't see any evidence to the contrary on the court. I think if we are having that type of season next year or the following year, I will be very frustrated. I like the sophomores and I think by the time they are seniors UD will be a really good team.

What this program needs is a period of sustained success. UD hasn't had an NCAA tournament run since 1984 and we've won exactly two NCAA games since.
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Old 01-11-2014, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
All this because we lost to a team that's only loses are to Wichita State and Wisconsin...2 top 10 teams.
The issue isn't THAT we lost or WHO we lost to...it's HOW we lost.

No 'D'...layups...seniors folding...horrible shooting...lack of coaching adjustments...

You can't ignore the problems, you have to address them.
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Old 01-11-2014, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
The issue isn't THAT we lost or WHO we lost to...it's HOW we lost.

No 'D'...layups...seniors folding...horrible shooting...lack of coaching adjustments...

You can't ignore the problems, you have to address them.
Yeah, because the team we lost 2 that is the best defensive team in the A10 and starts and plays 5 seniors majority of the time had nothing to do with our poor performance. We should have been able to score at will like everyone else against them...
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Old 01-11-2014, 05:37 PM
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...that needs to change...NOW!

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Yeah, because the team we lost 2 that is the best defensive team in the A10 and starts and plays 5 seniors majority of the time had nothing to do with our poor performance. We should have been able to score at will like everyone else against them...
Keep making excuses...it's the Flyer Tradition...!
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Old 01-11-2014, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Keep making excuses...it's the Flyer Tradition...!
I am not making excuses! We lost to a better team. Sometimes no matter what you do, it happens. That's sports!
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Old 01-11-2014, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
The issue isn't THAT we lost or WHO we lost to...it's HOW we lost.

No 'D'...layups...seniors folding...horrible shooting...lack of coaching adjustments...

You can't ignore the problems, you have to address them.
You are wring on the d part Rollo. Defense was pretty solid. If UD executed on offense, didn't take stupid shots or make bonehead turnovers, SLU struggles to score 50. Their offense was almost entirely created by Flyer offensive mistakes.
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:24 PM
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It's only one loss, but bottom line: It's the first conference game of the season against (arguably) the best team in the league. You're at home. You HAVE to come out swinging (figuratively, of course) and win this game to send a message. Whatever it takes to protect your home court.
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:49 PM
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Look, I get it the Bills are an outstanding defensive team and they had a lot to do with Dayton's poor shooting performance, but raise your hand if you think STL is going to Amherst, Richmond or Philly and coming home with a win committing 18 turnovers and giving up 15 offensive rebounds. That game was right there for them to take and they blew it. This is the kind of game contenders in the A10 and at-large hopefuls win.
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Old 01-11-2014, 09:52 PM
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As bad as UD played, it amazed me that St. Louis really never put us away. More of a case of UD imploding and not executing. So if this UD team can play this bad and still hang with probably the best team in the A10, honestly - unlike most of you, I'm encouraged. At home, if UD played them 10 times we'd win win 7-8 of those games. Before everyone panics and concedes to an 8-8 conference record, can we let the team have a bad game and let the season play out. Pretty certain that DMO won't have another line the rest of the year like he did today. Thanks for listening. Peace out.
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Old 01-11-2014, 10:16 PM
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I agree, longtimefan - and most importantly, I hope you are right.
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Old 01-11-2014, 10:23 PM
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The troubling part is, SLU was very beatable today. Not very often do you go on the road in front of 13,000 opposing fans, look pretty average, and win rather comfortably start to finish. I never thought SLU was asked to work for much today. It all came too easy. And when they were not looking too hot themselves, we gifted them 15-20 points off the scoreboard to basically hand a result away. If nothing else, Id have felt better had SLU punked us. But we were 10-21 in a lay-up line. Bad turnovers led to easy SLU baskets. And in the halfcourt, we had no defensive answer for Evans. He abused us. Still, we shoulda won today with sinking a few baskets inside 3ft. Forget the glass. Thunderdunk it!

One game in the league schedule does not make a trend. One game is one game and not much else can be drawn from it. Yes it feels like its "oh here we go again" but you simply cannot deduce that after one result. If we are 2-3 or 4-4 in the league 2-3 weeks from now, then those statements have some validity.

If we win our next three, and we quite possibly could -- we'd be 3-1 and not in a "oh here we go again" state. If we are 1-3, that changes things.

Simply not enough data to make any lasting A10 predictions when 1/16th of the league schedule has been played. That doesnt mean it wasnt the start we wanted nor the performance we wanted. It doesnt mean there is not more work to do. It just means we are 0-1 with 15 games to go.

Missed opportunity? Yup. Gotta protect home court. A win would have continued some valuable momentum. Im not underplaying that. Past performance in past years in the A10 -- in my opinion -- has nothing to do with the current team. Your record doesnt carry over. We finish 8-8 every year because thats what our gameplans and talent and execution dictates. Thats what dictates 8-8, not 8-8 having some voodoo magic that implants 8-8 the following year because we are cursed.
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Old 01-11-2014, 10:45 PM
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Remember, UD was picked to finish 7th in the league. The coaches polls can be off but they are often quite right. The coaches have a good evaluation of the talent.

What I see on this board is first place finishes, undefeated at home, 13-3 etc... The A10 coaches don't think like UDPride for some reason.

St/ Louis was/is a superior team. UD is good. They have time to recover, but they have to bring their A game the next 15 games. In my opinion, the season will be made or lost against Rhode Island. On paper, UD should win both games, but RI lost by 1 point to St. Louis and has had UD's number recently. They also need to steal a road win somewhere (like Richmond). Based upon the way they played at Ole Miss, I think they can steal a road win.
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Old 01-11-2014, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
The troubling part is, SLU was very beatable today.
I don't think I agree with that. Maybe they were very beatable for a team that has some firepower in the paint, but we got dominated virtually the whole game. Saint Louis looked like maybe the 2nd best team we have played this year to me. I thought we played well in the first 10 minutes, but began to get frustrated with getting intimidated on our close-in shots. SLU also extended the defense and did not give us many clean looks from 3pt territory. I got the feeling that they like to take away the 3 pointer and the lay-up while daring you to take the mid-range shot. Not many teams are good at that anymore. I think the quality of their defense basically wrecked our shooting confidence.

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Old 01-11-2014, 11:17 PM
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How much shooting confidence do you need inside a 3ft circle of the rim however. Instead of thunderdunking, we were thunderchicken in there. We just get 3-4 of those to fall, the entire complexion of the game changes before halftime. SLUs defense was very good. But, they had considerable help as well and they didnt need the help.
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
Remember, UD was picked to finish 7th in the league. The coaches polls can be off but they are often quite right. The coaches have a good evaluation of the talent.

True, but I think that was partly due to the several unknowns (new players, etc.) surrounding UD this season. Jay Bilas and others who have actually seen the team play up-close this season have laughed when mentioning that 7th place prediction, opining that the Flyers should finish better than that.
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:36 PM
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Not to get too technical here, but I've noticed that many of the players, on close-in shots like the ones they missed today, seem to shoot with the palm or the heel of their hand, not with their fingers. When a 3-foot shot only goes 2 feet, the extra loft that comes from a flick of the wrist can't hurt.

That said, IMHO the disheartening part of today's loss is that we've seen this movie before. Just when you think the program is getting it together (and face it: a 12-3 non-con could lead a lot of people to believe that it is getting it together), it lays an egg against a beatable opponent on national TV. SLU didn't win this game as much as the Flyers lost it, and that was generally obvious to anyone who saw the game.

Not to take anything away from SLU. If they're not one of the Top 25 teams in the country, they're very close. But we made 31% of our FG attempts today. If we had made 41%, that would've been 5 more FGs made, or 10 more points, and we lost by 8.

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Old 01-11-2014, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
How much shooting confidence do you need inside a 3ft circle of the rim however. Instead of thunderdunking, we were thunderchicken in there. We just get 3-4 of those to fall, the entire complexion of the game changes before halftime. SLUs defense was very good. But, they had considerable help as well and they didnt need the help.
The way that I saw it, when we were missing all of those short shots, it was normally one of our guys who tried to take his defender 1 on 1 using all of his mobility to get an angle on his defender. When you exert all of your energies on just getting a shoulder around the defender, you don't typically have the time to collect yourself and attempt a dunk or finish real strong. SLU had a weak side defender waiting there consistently, and our guys ended up hanging in the air with few options but to try and double pump or shoot from an odd angle. After some time, our guys knew they were going to get challenged heavily near the rim, and therefore were anticipating a challenge and taking odd angle or hurried shots. They were altering our shots a lot, IMO. They were in our heads in the paint.

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Old 01-11-2014, 11:55 PM
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This team has talent it's time to execute

Give credit where credit is due. SLU played solid defense the entire game. They controlled the tempo, they controlled both ends of the court. This was classic old school Bobby Knight basketball. After all that is exactly what Jim Crews knows and plays. With 5 seniors that is what you expect to see - solid defense and execution.
In terms of the Flyers, we look like a team with inexperience at the PG.. Unfortunately, we don’t have anyone running the show like Jet. Price is a nice player but you can tell he’s limited by injury. Smith looks good at times but plays like a freshman.
I thought Archie moved away pushing the ball up the court. I’m not sure why. That’s where SLU did a nice job. We had easy buckets that just were not converted. Once again we had no inside presence. This makes defending the perimeter so much easier. Losing Kavs was a big blow. Was there a reason Gavs didn’t play?
I would have liked to see KP and KD in the game more. They bring energy and a defensive presence that we need. I think both plays also have an edge and aggressiveness that for some reason Siebert and Pierre are not showing on the court.
This season is far from over. GW, SLU, VCU, and UMASS are all teams that can make the tourney. We’re in the mix which is what we should expect. We play VCU, GW, and UMass at home. SLU and St Joe are probably are two toughest road games. This team has talent we just need to execute.
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Old 01-12-2014, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Windy City Flyer View Post
. . . Was there a reason Gavs didn’t play? . . .

Nice post . . .

Gavrilovic and Kavanaugh collided in practice this week.
Kavanaugh was cleared to play but Gavrilocic was held out for concussion symptoms.

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Old 01-12-2014, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
As bad as UD played, it amazed me that St. Louis really never put us away. More of a case of UD imploding and not executing. So if this UD team can play this bad and still hang with probably the best team in the A10, honestly - unlike most of you, I'm encouraged.
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Encouraged. LoL!

How on earth can you be encouraged with anything that transpired yesterday? We were at home. Biggest game of the year and we flat out sharted the bed. I shutter to think what that team will do to us in St Louis.

This attitude is what defines the majority of our fan base. Satisfaction with mediocrity.

Of course they put us away. They were never at any real risk during that game. Although the lead fluctuated from 6 to 11 points, we never showed any ability to get the deficit lower than two possessions. Watching that game, I had zero hope that we had a chance of winning or tying it. That my friends, is putting it away.

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Old 01-12-2014, 11:19 AM
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I think St Louis played a great game and is the best team we played. Whatever sport it is, the defensive teams never look awesome they just get it done and intimidate the crap out of you. The intimidation is not in cheap talk, but the psychological weardown that no matter what we do, we are getting no results. They held a very good offensive team to 30% shooting and blocked 9 of our shots on our home floor. The only difference between St Louis and #1 is their offense is average. Their starting five are better at every position than ours, save Pierre.

That being said I am not conceding anything. We still can finish as high as second place.
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Old 01-12-2014, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
Encouraged. LoL!

How on earth can you be encouraged with anything that transpired yesterday? We were at home. Biggest game of the year and we flat out sharted the bed. I shutter to think what that team will do to us in St Louis.

This attitude is what defines the majority of our fan base. Satisfaction with mediocrity.

Of course they put us away. They were never at any real risk during that game. Although the lead fluctuated from 6 to 11 points, we never showed any ability to get the deficit lower than two possessions. Watching that game, I had zero hope that we had a chance of winning or tying it. That my friends, is putting it away.
The point eluded you obviously. St. Louis did NOT put us away. With less than a minute left KP I believe took a shot from the corner that would have cut the lead down to 3 point (it stood at 6). You call that " putting UD away"? Putting UD away would have been an 18 point St. Louis lead with 30 seconds to play... My point was that there isn't any question that by far this was UD's worst offensive showing of the year against what most consider the top team or two of the league and despite all of that, UD almost got it down to one possession with 25 seconds left. If UD had an average offensive game or just hits 2 more 3 point shots (and they still would have been shooting low 30's% for the day) - this is a different game. You see the glass as half empty, I see it as half full and by March, this team will be dancing...
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Old 01-12-2014, 12:07 PM
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I think the thing that bothers me the most is that it wasn't so long ago when teams like St. Louis came into the arena, the Flyers would always play their best ball. They used to regularly knock off favored teams in the arena. The UD Arena used to be a huge home court advantage, teams were knocked off their game playing in that environment. I'm now seeing way too many mediocre performances at home these days. Watching it on tv yesterday, the entire place just seemed dead, from the players to the crowd. This team has to take back their home court.
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Old 01-12-2014, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
I think the thing that bothers me the most is that it wasn't so long ago when teams like St. Louis came into the arena, the Flyers would always play their best ball. They used to regularly knock off favored teams in the arena. The UD Arena used to be a huge home court advantage, teams were knocked off their game playing in that environment. I'm now seeing way too many mediocre performances at home these days. Watching it on tv yesterday, the entire place just seemed dead, from the players to the crowd. This team has to take back their home court.
Well- that environment you refer to was when current season (lower arena) ticket holders where in their 40's and 50's...now 30 years later....let's. Just say they pick and choose when to get excited...that fact does make the arena less intimidating huh?
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
We were at home. Biggest game of the year and we flat out sharted the bed. I shutter to think what that team will do to us in St Louis.
That wasn't a shart. It was a full blown deuce.
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:39 PM
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Old 01-12-2014, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
The point eluded you obviously. St. Louis did NOT put us away. With less than a minute left KP I believe took a shot from the corner that would have cut the lead down to 3 point (it stood at 6). You call that " putting UD away"? Putting UD away would have been an 18 point St. Louis lead with 30 seconds to play... My point was that there isn't any question that by far this was UD's worst offensive showing of the year against what most consider the top team or two of the league and despite all of that, UD almost got it down to one possession with 25 seconds left. If UD had an average offensive game or just hits 2 more 3 point shots (and they still would have been shooting low 30's% for the day) - this is a different game. You see the glass as half empty, I see it as half full and by March, this team will be dancing...
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Think whatever you want about that game if it makes you feel better. At no time during that game did I think we had a chance of winning based on what witnessed on the floor. We actually played pretty good defense forcing some turnovers.

Almost gets you nothing. I almost went out on a date with Amy Adams. She sat two tables away from me a few months ago while I was out to dinner.
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Old 01-12-2014, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
Think whatever you want about that game if it makes you feel better. At no time during that game did I think we had a chance of winning based on what witnessed on the floor. We actually played pretty good defense forcing some turnovers.

Almost gets you nothing. I almost went out on a date with Amy Adams. She sat two tables away from me a few months ago while I was out to dinner.
You still don't get it. The point is UD played maybe the worst offensive game of the year and lost by 9 against probably the best team in the A10. An average offensive performance is a 10 point win for UD. This game was an aberration for UD - I see them contending for the a10 title. Program is on the way up, not sideways as you suggest.
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Old 01-12-2014, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
You still don't get it. The point is UD played maybe the worst offensive game of the year and lost by 9 against probably the best team in the A10. An average offensive performance is a 10 point win for UD. This game was an aberration for UD - I see them contending for the a10 title. Program is on the way up, not sideways as you suggest.
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Part of me wants to agree with you. I hope you are right.
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
You still don't get it. The point is UD played maybe the worst offensive game of the year and lost by 9 against probably the best team in the A10. An average offensive performance is a 10 point win for UD. This game was an aberration for UD - I see them contending for the a10 title. Program is on the way up, not sideways as you suggest.
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I get what both of you are saying, but like Buster...even when the score got close, I never felt that the game was actually close.

The body language of UD was very bad. The numbers may not have been a blowout, but if you were to watch the game and not the scoreboard, it sure felt like one.

Even with the UD runs, it felt like it was SLU letting them back in and not UD getting back into it. It was like the "it's yours to lose" with SLU...not that it was UD's to win.

SLU is a good team, no doubt. We may get absolutely hammered at their place. Hopefully not as bad as the abomination that I witnessed there last year. These guys have to protect their home court. UD can't wet the bed at home and now the most definitely need to win one they aren't supposed to.
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