Smoke on twitter

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by ud2 Haha, they complained about Coffee's first poll because they didn't like the way it was worded, so they said it was a junk poll since the wording was bad and the poll didn't give them the results they wanted. So, Coffee makes a second poll then with better wording, and now they are saying that second poll is also junk because they again didn't get the results they wanted.

Don't forget the poll after the A-10 tourney that was moved by a snowflake moderator to the off topic area where it still resides.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Jeff Exactly, just like DePaul.

Fair enough, but DePaul was grandfathered in. But honestly, DePaul might have gotten in anyway. Some of these conferences have this obsession with needing to have a team in Chicago and NYC, even though some of those teams in Chicago and NYC are not good and nobody follows them.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by podcast411 First - I hope AG is coming back and not going anywhere. Second - If an announcement of him making a change was to come - it would not happen on days with Games in the Tourn going on. That means Mon to Wed next week would be when any announcement would be made - if one is coming. If we make it to Thursday with no announcement from AG - then I think we are good to go with him coming back next season. Which again I hope is the case. Fingers crossed there is no announcement early this coming week.

This sounds reasonable. You can read the tea leaves a lot of different ways. The fact that most think there will be some exodus of players and maybe massive coupled with no players announcing anything to date, is it reasonable to surmise that AG's future is linked to 1 to many of the players decisions? In particular Mike, Tou, and Holmes.

If I'm leaving because of AG, why would I not enter the portal now? I can't see any of them changing their mind and stay if AG is gone. It would limit their options in the portal if the new coach decision took several weeks or a month plus.

I can't see them being positively overwhelmed if Greer is the guy even though they have a recruiting connection. That may have been the case with transfer and sit but not so much with new rules.

There are just too many unknowns for disgruntled players aka a kid like Mike or Holmes who are supposedly looking for better options for development and exposure.

I’m not trying to imply this should be a factor in AG’s future. Just trying to see if the players have his back or the opposite.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer This sounds reasonable. You can read the tea leaves a lot of different ways. The fact that most think there will be some exodus of players and maybe massive coupled with no players announcing anything to date, is it reasonable to surmise that AG's future is linked to 1 to many of the players decisions? In particular Mike, Tou, and Holmes. If I'm leaving because of AG, why would I not enter the portal now? I can't see any of them changing their mind and stay if AG is gone. It would limit their options in the portal if the new coach decision took several weeks or a month plus. I can't see them being positively overwhelmed if Greer is the guy even though they have a recruiting connection. That may have been the case with transfer and sit but not so much with new rules. There are just too many unknowns for disgruntled players aka a kid like Mike or Holmes who are supposedly looking for better options for development and exposure. I’m not trying to imply this should be a factor in AG’s future. Just trying to see if the players have his back or the opposite.

There are many ways to read the tea leaves as you have said.

1 scenario I can see are players not wanting to put their name in the portal until the NCAA tournament has been whittled down. Players wanting to play in the NCAA next season hoping to find a place, with minutes on a team that has a great chance of going to the Big Dance(this could mean any thing from a Furman to a Duke). If say a Kent St. contacts them now, they won't have to tell them I prefer to wait and see if others call first. And while someone has mentioned that coaches can multi-task, I doubt that NCAA coaches still in the tournament are concentrating on the portal until they're eliminated. That could apply to NIT teams too I guess.

Also, there could be a domino effect waiting for the lead domino to fall. Take Amzil or Zimi, maybe they want to know for sure what Deuce and Camara are doing first. If the Flyers lose them, that's meaningful to those two. Could be "They leave, I'm staying, they stay, I'm leaving."

[Furio]

3 day old anon sourced tweet not seen mentioned
https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/...CxwYWewrQtAAAA

he's gone. he's not gone.lol
Chris Mack first target. Oh lord some would have a total
meltdown if Chris Mack was named head coach. lol

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by Furio 3 day old anon sourced tweet not seen mentioned https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/...CxwYWewrQtAAAA he's gone. he's not gone.lol Chris Mack first target. Oh lord some would have a total meltdown if Chris Mack was named head coach. lol

Wow - talk about an enigma. The hated punk the next coach? It’s gonna be an interesting ride.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Furio 3 day old anon sourced tweet not seen mentioned https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/...CxwYWewrQtAAAA he's gone. he's not gone.lol Chris Mack first target. Oh lord some would have a total meltdown if Chris Mack was named head coach. lol

I would be 100% on board with Mack being the coach, he is a very good coach. I know that this is not a popular opinion on here. He seems Iike a super nice guy too. I would be very excited if he got the job. The Dayton fans would absolutely love Mack. Great recruiter too. I love everything about this idea.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by ud2 I would be 100% on board with Mack being the coach, he is a very good coach. I know that this is not a popular opinion on here. He seems Iike a super nice guy too. I would be very excited if he got the job.

You and me both. But the Sweater Vest crowd would rather have us struggle for NITs the next 10 years than to hire a guy who hit our freshman center in the face with a ball at the age of 20 almost 35 years ago.

The problem is I doubt his wife would want him spending his time coaching for the Arena crowd that she had to call security on.

[jack72]

So a coach who is not so likeable?
or
A coach who wins?

We want both, but what if you can only have one or the other?
I'l take the latter.

[Swampy Meadows]

And Chris Mack did so much winning at Louisville.

Which is why he is currently on the beach.

Wes Coffee says NFW to this harebrained rumor.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows And Chris Mack did so much winning at Louisville. Which is why he is currently on the beach. Wes Coffee says NFW to this harebrained rumor. Posted via Mobile Device

NCAA his first 2 years at Louisville and never had a conference losing record in the ACC.

Why in the blue hell does everybody use a coaches record after they move up to one of the P5 as a reason they can't coach in a conference below that they dominated when it was much tougher than it it now? And also did great in the Big East. It's why it's considered a move up, because it's a tougher job. Doesn't mean that can't beat George Mason, George Washington. St. Bonaventure or Rhode Island as a Coach for Dayton.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

	George Washington GEORGE WASHINGTON Students choose from two distinct GW campuses — Foggy Bottom and Mount Vernon. Both are located in historic and prestigious Northwest Washington, DC residential neighborhoods. With 9,700 undergraduate students, GW was founded almost 200 years ago and is named after the first President of the United States. GW stands as one of the nation's premier academic institutions with dozens of famous political, social, science, liberal arts, medical and professional graduates to its credit. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Colonials.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 NCAA his first 2 years at Louisville and never had a conference losing record in the ACC. Why in the blue hell does everybody use a coaches record after they move up to one of the P5 as a reason they can't coach in a conference below that they dominated when it was much tougher than it it now? And also did great in the Big East. It's why it's considered a move up, because it's a tougher job. Doesn't mean that can't beat George Mason, George Washington. St. Bonaventure or Rhode Island as a Coach for Dayton.

Mack's resume is awesome...won an outright Big East league title at X...earned both a 1 seed and 2 seed at Xavier...#1 in the country for a while at Louisville...landed Xavier's 1st ever 5 star recruit in Semaj Christon...his wife is a UD Hall of Famer...he earned numerous trips to the ncaat...Elite 8 appearance at Xavier...3x Sweet 16 at Xavier...this is too good to be true.

His teams play hard and smart. I love the man.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by ud2 Mack's resume is awesome...won an outright Big East league title at X...earned both a 1 seed and 2 seed at Xavier...#1 in the country for a while at Louisville...landed Xavier's 1st ever 5 star recruit in Semaj Christon...his wife is a UD Hall of Famer...he earned numerous trips to the ncaat...Elite 8 appearance at Xavier...3x Sweet 16 at Xavier...this is too good to be true. His teams play hard and smart. I love the man.

I think the only question is this. Do the one's who use his coaching at a P5 conference as reason he can't coach in a lower conference that he dominated, have a hidden agenda or are they just stupid.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 Mack's resume is awesome...won an outright Big East league title at X...earned both a 1 seed and 2 seed at Xavier...#1 in the country for a while at Louisville...landed Xavier's 1st ever 5 star recruit in Semaj Christon...his wife is a UD Hall of Famer...he earned numerous trips to the ncaat...Elite 8 appearance at Xavier...3x Sweet 16 at Xavier...this is too good to be true. His teams play hard and smart. I love the man.

Yeah but threw a basketball at a UD player when and graduated from X. What do you think this is? A basketball program that’s interested in winning
Posted via Mobile Device

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[foolishpride]

My only problem with Chris Mack was his lack of control of some of his players. Namely ("We Zip 'Em Up") Tu Holloway and Mark Lyons. His teams were hard nosed and played hard.

[zmz723]

Mack would be awesome, but I assume P5 schools would be interested in him
Posted via Mobile Device

[Furio]

https://247sports.com/Article/Ex-Lou...le--206674841/

chris mack throwing cold water on the idea of taking a head coaching job
this year

[UDEE79]

If coach Grant retires I would love the hiring of Chris Mack

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Furio https://247sports.com/Article/Ex-Lou...le--206674841/ chris mack throwing cold water on the idea of taking a head coaching job this year

Yep, too good to be true. On to the next target.

[longtimefan67]

No Chris Mack ever. That rumor nauseates me
Posted via Mobile Device

[bcross]

Give Chris Mack a lifetime contact.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by bcross Give Chris Mack a lifetime contact.

Only if Wes Coffee approves a conditional 1 year deal would I ever be ok with anything
Posted via Mobile Device

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by Furio https://247sports.com/Article/Ex-Lou...le--206674841/ chris mack throwing cold water on the idea of taking a head coaching job this year

Good Riddance before you ever got here
Posted via Mobile Device

[TA111]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Good Riddance before you ever got here Posted via Mobile Device

Can’t believe there are a few here really pushing for a guy like Mack after his debacle at Louisville. Good article on the Athletic about his firing.
https://theathletic.com/3096709/2022...shared_article

[The Gem]

A couple of things about UD hiring Mack. First of all, I just don't see it happening. Second, if it did happen, Wes Coffee would likely be very publicly telling UD fans to embrace it. Those two buried the hatchet long ago. Third, don't forget the true villain in the incident was Jim Crews. That guy is a total dirt bag. Mack transferred to _avier in large part because Crews instructed him to hit Wes in the face that day. Fourth, if he comes here and especially if he wins like he did elsewhere he will suddenly be not such a bad guy after all.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[The Gem]

I found this form an old post on the A10 board. It's from a Cincinnati.com article
Nineteen years ago Xavier men’s basketball coach Chris Mack played college hoops for the University of Evansville. And Evansville, on a particular occasion, played Dayto

So begins a story that has followed Mack since February of 1990, on the night he popped a ball in a defender’s face while taking it out of bounds under Dayton’s basket.

That defender was Wes Coffee, and he was twice hit in the face by different Purple Aces within the game’s first 13 minutes.

Only the second hit came from Mack. But it launched a sequence of events that led to a near melee between teams, a contrite Mack, a dazed Coffee, an apology letter, and a reputation – for Mack – as a perpetual villain to some in Dayton.

The incident resurfaced in whispers around the time of Mack’s April 15 introduction as XU’s new coach. After a little digging, it was clear that there’s no love lost for the Evansville-turned-Xavier transfer player in Dayton annals: first because of the Coffee incident, and second for his decades-old allegiance to the archrival Musketeers.

Last week Mack was asked to set the record straight. What happened that night, and why? He was happy to oblige.

Double trouble

The story, Mack said, starts like this: Evansville was playing a heated rivalry game at Dayton, which was known as a pressing team.

“I think our coach, Jim Crews, was bothered by the fact that the guy guarding the in-bounder was always stepping over the line. He’d warn referees and they never seemed to move them back. It’s one of those rules that’s in there but they didn’t really follow it,” Mack said.

“And he had made the point in the shoot-around the day before, that if that kept happening, ‘You just boink the guy in the nose with the ball. I’m tired of this.’ We all sort of chuckled and he said, ‘I’m serious. You’re going to boink him in the nose.’”

(Crews, by the way, was a member of Indiana’s 1976 national championship team, led by Bobby Knight. He spent eight years as Hoosier assistant on Knight’s coaching staff before a successful 17-year run at Evansville.)

The day after the shoot-around, the Purple Aces didn’t play well. They were down by 10 or 12 points, Mack said, when his teammate in-bounded the ball under the Flyers’ hoop.

According to Mack and the Dayton Daily News’ account of the game, Evansville guard Scott Schreffler was nearing the end of the five second count and Coffee, a forward/center, was guarding him.

Schreffler threw the ball into Coffee’s face, the paper said. Coffee was stunned, his lip split. He thought it might have been an accident; he was a 7-footer, and an obstacle to get around.

Ten minutes later, then-sophomore Mack was in Schreffler’s place and needed to in-bound the ball against the Flyers’ press.

“The same guy (Coffee) is on the ball and it’s getting close to a five count, and I looked long and I threw it and hit him right in the nose,” Mack said.

At that point most onlookers thought Mack had thrown the ball twice, a misconception he last week wanted to rectify. He said he only threw it once. Coffee agreed.

Still, many in the arena grew incensed – like Coffee’s teammate, Negele Knight, who took the incident personally, the Dayton Daily News said. Knight ran from the wing of Dayton’s press and chest-bumped Mack.

“That’s all I could do,” Knight told the newspaper. “I knew if I started a fight, I’d get thrown out. So I just bumped him to see if I could get a reaction. He didn’t react.”
Following orders

Coffee was shocked after Mack hit him with the ball and remained, for a while, angry.

“Chris hit me really, really good, square on nose and mouth, and split my lip even further. That’s when people realized it was intentional, and there was an uproar,” said Coffee, who lives in Alabama and recently recounted the story.

He didn’t retaliate.

“Even if I wanted to swing, I didn’t know what direction to swing because my eyes were watering so much,” Coffee said.

The referee called a technical foul on Mack, the Dayton Daily News said. The teams shoved each other and the atmosphere was charged, but no fighting took place.

Mack was the only Purple Ace who tried to shake hands after the Flyers’ 23-point win, according to the Dayton Daily News story.

He told its reporter he was sorry, and that he was trying to throw the ball over Coffee’s head – but under the bottom of the backboard – to beat the five-second count.

Mack last week said the latter comments were meant to protect his coach. He took the game to heart and said the Coffee incident contributed to his decision to transfer.

Crews, who became Army’s head coach in 2002, on Monday supported Mack’s account of the game. It sure was a long time ago, Crews said, and he didn’t remember the first ball thrown at Coffee, but Mack did what he was told.

“He followed orders,” Crews said.

Crews said he warned his players then that Dayton defenders were going to keep crossing the line, per their coach’s instruction. If officials weren’t going to whistle them for violations, UD’s players would continue the behavior, Crews said.

Coffee said he never crossed he end line and went out of bounds. He didn’t have to, he said, because his “arms and legs were long enough” to defend the pass.
Lessons learned

Once he returned to Evansville, the exchange weighed on Mack. He composed an apology to Coffee and slipped it in the mail.

“For him to write the letter … I definitely didn’t expect that. He hoped I would forgive him,” Coffee said. “I thought that was very classy. I never held any ill-will against him.”

The next year Mack transferred to Xavier, where he went on to be a two-time captain. He said he loved Crews as a coach, but “those type of things” led him out of Evansville.

“I felt bad. I want to compete and I want to win but I’m not going to do it that way,” Mack said.

Coffee today wishes only the best for Mack and was congratulatory about his new role at XU. Although Mack has moved on, too, he won’t forget.

“Not only did I learn a lesson as a player but I really learned more of a lesson as a coach, dealing with kids,” Mack said. “It’s about competing and being nasty and tough, but it’s also about shaking their hand and doing it the right way.”

Time doesn’t always sway those who hold grudges. Despite the fact that his wife, Christi, was a Flyer, Mack probably won’t get a warm reception the first time he leads XU at UD Arena.

To that end, two things are certain: The Xavier-Dayton animosity will live on, and Mack – a Musketeer through-and-through – doesn’t expect to make any new Dayton friends. The Coffee incident ensured as much.

“I became the villain at Dayton,” Mack said. “And I’ve got no problem with that.”

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Only if Wes Coffee approves a conditional 1 year deal would I ever be ok with anything Posted via Mobile Device

Do you really hold grudges for decades against people you don’t even know? You are the most “boomer” boomer I’ve ever met and I hate using that term

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by [B Swampy Meadows[/B];728013]. Wes Coffee says NFW to this harebrained rumor. Posted via Mobile Device

Originally Posted by The Gem I found this form an old post on the A10 board. It's from a Cincinnati.com article Nineteen years ago Xavier men’s basketball coach Chris Mack played college hoops for the University of Evansville. And Evansville, on a particular occasion, played Dayto So begins a story that has followed Mack since February of 1990, on the night he popped a ball in a defender’s face while taking it out of bounds under Dayton’s basket. That defender was Wes Coffee, and he was twice hit in the face by different Purple Aces within the game’s first 13 minutes. Only the second hit came from Mack. But it launched a sequence of events that led to a near melee between teams, a contrite Mack, a dazed Coffee, an apology letter, and a reputation – for Mack – as a perpetual villain to some in Dayton. The incident resurfaced in whispers around the time of Mack’s April 15 introduction as XU’s new coach. After a little digging, it was clear that there’s no love lost for the Evansville-turned-Xavier transfer player in Dayton annals: first because of the Coffee incident, and second for his decades-old allegiance to the archrival Musketeers. Last week Mack was asked to set the record straight. What happened that night, and why? He was happy to oblige. Double trouble The story, Mack said, starts like this: Evansville was playing a heated rivalry game at Dayton, which was known as a pressing team. “I think our coach, Jim Crews, was bothered by the fact that the guy guarding the in-bounder was always stepping over the line. He’d warn referees and they never seemed to move them back. It’s one of those rules that’s in there but they didn’t really follow it,” Mack said. “And he had made the point in the shoot-around the day before, that if that kept happening, ‘You just boink the guy in the nose with the ball. I’m tired of this.’ We all sort of chuckled and he said, ‘I’m serious. You’re going to boink him in the nose.’” (Crews, by the way, was a member of Indiana’s 1976 national championship team, led by Bobby Knight. He spent eight years as Hoosier assistant on Knight’s coaching staff before a successful 17-year run at Evansville.) The day after the shoot-around, the Purple Aces didn’t play well. They were down by 10 or 12 points, Mack said, when his teammate in-bounded the ball under the Flyers’ hoop. According to Mack and the Dayton Daily News’ account of the game, Evansville guard Scott Schreffler was nearing the end of the five second count and Coffee, a forward/center, was guarding him. Schreffler threw the ball into Coffee’s face, the paper said. Coffee was stunned, his lip split. He thought it might have been an accident; he was a 7-footer, and an obstacle to get around. Ten minutes later, then-sophomore Mack was in Schreffler’s place and needed to in-bound the ball against the Flyers’ press. “The same guy (Coffee) is on the ball and it’s getting close to a five count, and I looked long and I threw it and hit him right in the nose,” Mack said. At that point most onlookers thought Mack had thrown the ball twice, a misconception he last week wanted to rectify. He said he only threw it once. Coffee agreed. Still, many in the arena grew incensed – like Coffee’s teammate, Negele Knight, who took the incident personally, the Dayton Daily News said. Knight ran from the wing of Dayton’s press and chest-bumped Mack. “That’s all I could do,” Knight told the newspaper. “I knew if I started a fight, I’d get thrown out. So I just bumped him to see if I could get a reaction. He didn’t react.” Following orders Coffee was shocked after Mack hit him with the ball and remained, for a while, angry. “Chris hit me really, really good, square on nose and mouth, and split my lip even further. That’s when people realized it was intentional, and there was an uproar,” said Coffee, who lives in Alabama and recently recounted the story. He didn’t retaliate. “Even if I wanted to swing, I didn’t know what direction to swing because my eyes were watering so much,” Coffee said. The referee called a technical foul on Mack, the Dayton Daily News said. The teams shoved each other and the atmosphere was charged, but no fighting took place. Mack was the only Purple Ace who tried to shake hands after the Flyers’ 23-point win, according to the Dayton Daily News story. He told its reporter he was sorry, and that he was trying to throw the ball over Coffee’s head – but under the bottom of the backboard – to beat the five-second count. Mack last week said the latter comments were meant to protect his coach. He took the game to heart and said the Coffee incident contributed to his decision to transfer. Crews, who became Army’s head coach in 2002, on Monday supported Mack’s account of the game. It sure was a long time ago, Crews said, and he didn’t remember the first ball thrown at Coffee, but Mack did what he was told. “He followed orders,” Crews said. Crews said he warned his players then that Dayton defenders were going to keep crossing the line, per their coach’s instruction. If officials weren’t going to whistle them for violations, UD’s players would continue the behavior, Crews said. Coffee said he never crossed he end line and went out of bounds. He didn’t have to, he said, because his “arms and legs were long enough” to defend the pass. Lessons learned Once he returned to Evansville, the exchange weighed on Mack. He composed an apology to Coffee and slipped it in the mail. “For him to write the letter … I definitely didn’t expect that. He hoped I would forgive him,” Coffee said. “I thought that was very classy. I never held any ill-will against him.” The next year Mack transferred to Xavier, where he went on to be a two-time captain. He said he loved Crews as a coach, but “those type of things” led him out of Evansville. “I felt bad. I want to compete and I want to win but I’m not going to do it that way,” Mack said. Coffee today wishes only the best for Mack and was congratulatory about his new role at XU. Although Mack has moved on, too, he won’t forget. “Not only did I learn a lesson as a player but I really learned more of a lesson as a coach, dealing with kids,” Mack said. “It’s about competing and being nasty and tough, but it’s also about shaking their hand and doing it the right way.” Time doesn’t always sway those who hold grudges. Despite the fact that his wife, Christi, was a Flyer, Mack probably won’t get a warm reception the first time he leads XU at UD Arena. To that end, two things are certain: The Xavier-Dayton animosity will live on, and Mack – a Musketeer through-and-through – doesn’t expect to make any new Dayton friends. The Coffee incident ensured as much. “I became the villain at Dayton,” Mack said. “And I’ve got no problem with that.”

Fake news Swampy!!!

This will be very interesting to see what the resident reporter of UDPRIDE has to say about this. I'm guessing nothing. Great article that provides perspective after all these years and it's going to be interesting to see who provides "THANKS" to "The Gem" for finding and posting it. I have a feeling that the agenda driven sweater vest brigade won't.

Anyway, Thank you very much "The Gem" for providing this and proving that while the guy who got hit in the face twice holds absolutely no grudges, that the same group who are CAG apologists and hate Archie Miller's success with the program they supposedly love still do apparently.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[runnerup]

If anyone remembers the 2011 Crosstown Shootout brawl Mick Cronin showed a lot of class and apologized profusely. Mack not so much. Almost like he condoned it.

The one and only time i went to x to see the Flyers they refused to shake hands before game. Mentioning Mack and Grant in same breath should be illegal.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by foolishpride My only problem with Chris Mack was his lack of control of some of his players. Namely ("We Zip 'Em Up") Tu Holloway and Mark Lyons. His teams were hard nosed and played hard.

Conveniently people forget that with Gregory and Archie.

Hookers, burglary, sexual assault...

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer Do you really hold grudges for decades against people you don’t even know? You are the most “boomer” boomer I’ve ever met and I hate using that term

Hey now, every generation has their share of Boneheads. Just because us boomers are unfortunate enough to have the bonehead of all Boneheads is no reason to insult the rest of us.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer Do you really hold grudges for decades against people you don’t even know? You are the most “boomer” boomer I’ve ever met and I hate using that term

Let me guess, you voted for that moron Biden?…
Posted via Mobile Device

[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Let me guess, you voted for that moron Biden?… Posted via Mobile Device

Whether I did or didn’t makes no difference so why bring it up?

[UDGutter2]

Originally Posted by shocka43 Conveniently people forget that with Gregory and Archie. Hookers, burglary, sexual assault...

All of those were dealt with, not condoned.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer Whether I did or didn’t makes no difference so why bring it up?

Just sounds like something a millennial would do. Because they get offended by f’n everything.

Add: and second of all, i was joking about the Wes Coffee comment- that’s another thing about millennials- no GD sense of humor.

[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Just sounds like something a millennial would do. Because they get offended by f’n everything. Add: and second of all, i was joking about the Wes Coffee comment- that’s another thing about millennials- no GD sense of humor.

While you’re shouting from your rocker why not just say what you mean and stop half assing your cursing

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer While you’re shouting from your rocker why not just say what you mean and stop half assing your cursing

Shouting from my rocker…I’d be willing to bet I’d beat your ass in golf, from the pro tees…of course most millennials don’t play golf

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Shouting from my rocker…I’d be willing to bet I’d beat your ass in golf, from the pro tees…of course most millennials don’t play golf

I call dibs on Longtimefan67 being my partner when Rollo organizes the UDpride golf tourney.

Hope you have a strong back!

[UD62]

Thread is beginning to look like OTG

[zmz723]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Let me guess, you voted for that moron Biden?… Posted via Mobile Device

What on earth does this have to do with basketball? Longtimefan67 gets my vote for worst udpride poster
Posted via Mobile Device

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by zmz723 What on earth does this have to do with basketball? Longtimefan67 gets my vote for worst udpride poster Posted via Mobile Device

Ok , offended much?

[ud2]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Ok , offended much?

The losing is causing people to get crabby and restless. The tone of this board is going to continue to get worse until AG turns things around, or he is replaced.

[T-Bone 84]

GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

[longtimefan67]

I gotta pretty good idea of what happens according to my sources and I think the AG fans will be content with the decision made. The non-fans of AG may have to wait another year

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by UDGutter2 All of those were dealt with, not condoned.

Plenty weren't.

[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Shouting from my rocker…I’d be willing to bet I’d beat your ass in golf, from the pro tees…of course most millennials don’t play golf

You can claim that all day long if it makes you feel good about yourself.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 I gotta pretty good idea of what happens according to my sources and I think the AG fans will be content with the decision made. The non-fans of AG may have to wait another year

non-fan here. And I'll be thrilled if he stays. He made his bed, let him sleep in it. Let him get fired after a 15-16 season or whatever crap we're going to get next year.

[zmz723]

Yeah, I fully expect him to be coaching next year. And unless something drastic happens it’s looking like it’ll be a complete disaster.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 I gotta pretty good idea of what happens according to my sources and I think the AG fans will be content with the decision made. The non-fans of AG may have to wait another year

Would definitely be a great news - horrible news scenario if true
Posted via Mobile Device

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer You can claim that all day long if it makes you feel good about yourself.

Not every “boomer” sits on a rocker; Ii do feel good bout my game which is why my life doesn’t depend on the state of UD basketball- good or bad.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Not every “boomer” sits on a rocker; Ii do feel good bout my game which is why my life doesn’t depend on the state of UD basketball- good or bad.

This is the big deflection point on here. If a poster complains about AG too much, then the pro-AG people tell the critics that their life depends on the state of UD basketball.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by ud2 This is the big deflection point on here. If a poster complains about AG too much, then the pro-AG people tell the critics that their life depends on the state of UD basketball.

I want to win as much as any UD fan, you have no idea; but I stopped making UD basketball results the end all be all of everything years ago. I really don’t care who the coach has been.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 I want to win as much as any UD fan, you have no idea; but I stopped making UD basketball results the end all be all of everything years ago. I really don’t care who the coach has been.

Perspective and priority of life are mocked on this board. It’s replaced with whining, entitlement, ego and arrogance. Kudos
Posted via Mobile Device

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Perspective and priority of life are mocked on this board. It’s replaced with whining, entitlement, ego and arrogance. Kudos Posted via Mobile Device

So if you're on here constantly complaining about CAG, you don't have your priorities straight and don't have a life outside of UD basketball? But if you are on here just as constantly defending him after every negative post, you do?

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 So if you're on here constantly complaining about CAG, you don't have your priorities straight and don't have a life outside of UD basketball? But if you are on here just as constantly defending him after every negative post, you do?

It’s entertainment man - feeling the need to constantly spew venom at the coach and degrade players whose only fault is not living up to your standards is pathetic and sad.
Posted via Mobile Device

[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer It’s entertainment man - feeling the need to constantly spew venom at the coach and degrade players whose only fault is not living up to your standards is pathetic and sad. Posted via Mobile Device

What are your standards? It’s been mentioned to many times to count that the “anti-AG” people standard is what Neil and the administration stated

[UDEE79]

It would be nice if everybody quits posting in this thread until we hear if Grant is staying or going. After that you all can resume squabbling.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer It’s entertainment man - feeling the need to constantly spew venom at the coach and degrade players whose only fault is not living up to your standards is pathetic and sad. Posted via Mobile Device

Paging Archie Miller.

[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by UDEE79 It would be nice if everybody quits posting in this thread until we hear if Grant is staying or going. After that you all can resume squabbling.

No. I feel like longtime and I are finally starting to establish a connection

[bcross]

The opening weekend of the NCAA tournament just finished up and this board is talking about perspectives and priorities in life. That speaks volumes to the state of the program.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer No. I feel like longtime and I are finally starting to establish a connection

Ah, spring is in the air.....feel the love!

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by bcross The opening weekend of the NCAA tournament just finished up and this board is talking about perspectives and priorities in life. That speaks volumes to the state of the program.

There were literally two posts and a handful of responses on perspective and priorities in life, (by the way if you disagree that there are more important things in life than UD basketball, I feel sorry for you and those around you). That was in the context of a thread with countless posts regarding who the next head coach should be, even though we currently have a head coach and nothing but unsourced tweets suggest there will be a coaching change...that says alot about the state of the fan base, (at least on this board). Keep him, fire him, but but one of those things has to happen before you can make a decision vis a vi Chris Mack or whoever.

On Mack, I will just say I am glad he apologized and that Coffee forgave him but I don't know how we got to a place in the world where saying "I'm sorry" makes everything go away. I am sure he was sincere and really regrets it but that doesn't mean there are no consequences for intentionally throwing a ball in the face of an opponent in a sporting event. Everybody can judge Chris Mack how they want. I believe that situations like that reveal a person's character, they aren't just one off occurrences. Whatever that BS was 35 years ago, it resides somewhere inside Chris Mack and it certainly does not seem as if he has done a complete 180 since.

As a practical matter, you make dislike the influence the sweaters have, but you can't hire a coach who is going to get booed by half the arena on opening night.

[flyerfanatic86]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Just sounds like something a millennial would do. Because they get offended by f’n everything. Add: and second of all, i was joking about the Wes Coffee comment- that’s another thing about millennials- no GD sense of humor.

It seems that most people that complain about millennials have no sense of how old millennials even are now.

[Flyers98]

My 35 year old assistant pointed out that she is a millennial.

[UDGutter2]

Being a Gen X, I freely admit the older generations have something to teach us (except for the Boomers, they really know nothing. And no, they are not my parents, my siblings are all Boomers.) Our son, a Gen Z, acknowledges older generations have something to teach him. Millennials are apparently the smartest, because they all know everything, already. Lol

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Paging Archie Miller.

I know, pot meet kettle.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 On Mack, I will just say I am glad he apologized and that Coffee forgave him but I don't know how we got to a place in the world where saying "I'm sorry" makes everything go away. I am sure he was sincere and really regrets it but that doesn't mean there are no consequences for intentionally throwing a ball in the face of an opponent in a sporting event. Everybody can judge Chris Mack how they want. I believe that situations like that reveal a person's character, they aren't just one off occurrences. Whatever that BS was 35 years ago, it resides somewhere inside Chris Mack and it certainly does not seem as if he has done a complete 180 since.

So, he bopped someone in face with a basketball almost 35 years ago, wasn't even old enough to drink liqueur at the time, what exactly are those consequences you expect to see now? I'm really not getting what you expect here?

I'll bet just about everybody here is glad they don't have to go beyond an apology for things they did before they were 21. I'm really having a tough time wrapping my head around this. I'll bet there are plenty of people that played basketball between the ages of 18 and 21 that have elbowed, thrown a ball at, tripped or punched someone during a game that took place on a street court, gym etc... without 1000s of fans watching that don't have it hanging over their heads 35 years later. But because he did it in front of lots of witnesses, following the orders of his coach(which he now says he regrets) you think he should pay for it the rest of his life?

[SLUFLYER]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Agree, it IS possible that if AG leaves and they approached Pitino, I'd forget his Louisville escapades just to see what he could actually do in this dying city named Dayton.

Pitino was NEVER going to entertain Dayton. He HATES UD. He was as close with Jim O'Brien as it gets. No chance he would listen or consider.

[SLUFLYER]

Originally Posted by runnerup If anyone remembers the 2011 Crosstown Shootout brawl Mick Cronin showed a lot of class and apologized profusely. Mack not so much. Almost like he condoned it. The one and only time i went to x to see the Flyers they refused to shake hands before game. Mentioning Mack and Grant in same breath should be illegal.

Mack is actually a pretty good dude. That I can confirm.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer What are your standards? It’s been mentioned to many times to count that the “anti-AG” people standard is what Neil and the administration stated

Yeah, they never answer that question, they never want to put a hard deadline on AG. Some people I guess aren't comfortable viewing things in a more absolute, unequivocal, yes or no way.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 So, he bopped someone in face with a basketball almost 35 years ago, wasn't even old enough to drink liqueur at the time, what exactly are those consequences you expect to see now? I'm really not getting what you expect here? I'll bet just about everybody here is glad they don't have to go beyond an apology for things they did before they were 21. I'm really having a tough time wrapping my head around this. I'll bet there are plenty of people that played basketball between the ages of 18 and 21 that have elbowed, thrown a ball at, tripped or punched someone during a game that took place on a street court, gym etc... without 1000s of fans watching that don't have it hanging over their heads 35 years later. But because he did it in front of lots of witnesses, following the orders of his coach(which he now says he regrets) you think he should pay for it the rest of his life?

As I said, you may judge him however you choose, the fact that you are willing to look past it and I am not, doesn't make either of us right or wrong. By consequences, I don't mean he should go to jail or be banned from coaching, but it happened and none of us gets to choose the way others react to our misdeeds. Almost all of us have done something we regret in our youth. When you do it in front of 15,000 people (not sure if that game was televised), you get what you get. Accordingly his "consequences" are that there are a ton of people in Dayton who hate him and always will.

As I said, I think it is indicative of his character. You apparently do not, but then again you also think that is excusable to trip or punch someone within the confines of a game, so maybe that says something about how we respectively view the importance of character.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 As I said, you may judge him however you choose, the fact that you are willing to look past it and I am not, doesn't make either of us right or wrong. By consequences, I don't mean he should go to jail or be banned from coaching, but it happened and none of us gets to choose the way others react to our misdeeds. Almost all of us have done something we regret in our youth. When you do it in front of 15,000 people (not sure if that game was televised), you get what you get. Accordingly his"consequences" are that there are a ton of people ion Dayton who hate him and always will. As I said, I think it is indicative of his character. You apparently do not, but then again you also think that is excusable to trip or punch someone within the confines of a game, so maybe that says something about how we respectively view the importance of character.

I never said it that it was excusable to trip or punch someone with the confines of a game. Just that is shouldn't hang over your head for 35 years, whether it took place in some isolated gym or in front of millions.

And if you don't believe someone's character can change between the ages of 18/19 to 53/54 I think you're sadly mistaken.

[Flyers98]

Behavior can change, character is simply revealed. You don't really know a person until you have seen them in an adverse situation.

[Long time Flyer fan]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 I never said it that it was excusable to trip or punch someone with the confines of a game. Just that is shouldn't hang over your head for 35 years, whether it took place in some isolated gym or in front of millions. And if you don't believe someone's character can change between the ages of 18/19 to 53/54 I think you're sadly mistaken.

His choices probably were...Hit him in the face with the ball or sit the bench. I can understand his choice at the time.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 Behavior can change, character is simply revealed. You don't really know a person until you have seen them in an adverse situation.

BS! Here's the first definition of character that I found: the way someone thinks, feels, and behaves

I know for a fact that those 3 things have changed from the time I was 19 years old until now. If yours hasn't then either you reached perfection back then or there's something very abnormal about you that you can't recognize what you once saw as right as being wrong in retrospect. I'm guessing neither is true and you have had character change, but if not, than it's the latter as you certainly didn't reach perfection back then.

[The Gem]

I find it funny and sad that Wes Coffee - that would be the guy got the ball thrown in his face- can forgive and forget, but a bunch of people on a message board can't. It makes me wonder what other slights real and imagined are they clinging to? I guess some people are bound and determined to hold onto every grudge and grievance and walk around with a permanent scowl. Have fun with that.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 BS! Here's the first definition of character that I found: the way someone thinks, feels, and behaves I know for a fact that those 3 things have changed from the time I was 19 years old until now. If yours hasn't then either you reached perfection back then or there's something very abnormal about you that you can't recognize what you once saw as right as being wrong in retrospect. I'm guessing neither is true and you have had character change, but if not, than it's the latter as you certainly didn't reach perfection back then.

I am not going to go into details but I can point to several experiences in my life that have proven to me that no amount of training, or personal growth or whatever you want to call it changes who people are at a fundamental level and the decisions they make when the chips are down. I don't care what the dictionary definition is. What is the dictionary definition of "woman" at present?

I don't understand what you are so upset about. I prefaced my original post by saying everyone can judge Chris Mack as they please. Why does it matter to you that, in my opinion, a guy who intentionally threw a basketball into the face of a UD player, while playing for Xavier, is not a good choice to be the head basketball coach at UD? You would love to have him. Fine, we disagree, I'm not angry about it.

For what it is worth, I also don't think UD or any Catholic institution should be hiring Rick Pitino. Doesn't make me right, just makes me someone whose values and beliefs, (and that doesn't mean those are right either), come before the potential record of my college basketball team. It is sort of being presented as a false choice I think. "You can either have a dirt bag as a coach or you can lose, which do you want?" There are plenty of decent human beings out there that are also great basketball coaches.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by The Gem I find it funny and sad that Wes Coffee - that would be the guy got the ball thrown in his face- can forgive and forget, but a bunch of people on a message board can't. It makes me wonder what other slights real and imagined are they clinging too? I guess some people are bound and determined to hold onto every grudge and grievance and walk around with a permanent scowl. Have fun with that.

Wes Coffee may have forgiven him because that is the kind of guy Wes Coffee is. Does Wes Coffee hang out with him on the regular, did he name one of his kids for him or something? As I stated earlier "I'm sorry - I forgive you" doesn't operate as a time maching and erase the event. I have seen the mothers of murder victims forgive the person who killed their son, it doens't make it OK, the State doesn't say, "Oh, well then case dismissed." Apology and forgiveness are things that occur between two people. When you do something like that as publically as he did it, it is what it is as far as how people feel about it/you.

It's not that I don't forgive Chris Mack, it isn't my place to forgive him, but I can certainly have an opinion of what kind of person he is based on what I have seen. Luckily for him he doesn't care what my opinion is nor does it hold any consequence in his life. And for the record, I am not clinging to anything. I haven't thought about Chris Mack or that incident in years and wouldn't have today unless someone brought it up in the context of Mack being hired to fill the coaching vacancy we don't have. I think, all things being equal it is a valid consideration.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 I am not going to go into details but I can point to several experiences in my life that have proven to me that no amount of training, or personal growth or whatever you want to call it changes who people are at a fundamental level and the decisions they make when the chips are down. I don't care what the dictionary definition is. What is the dictionary definition of "woman" at present? I don't understand what you are so upset about. I prefaced my original post by saying everyone can judge Chris Mack as they please. Why does it matter to you that, in my opinion, a guy who intentionally threw a basketball into the face of a UD player, while playing for Xavier, is not a good choice to be the head basketball coach at UD? You would love to have him. Fine, we disagree, I'm not angry about it. For what it is worth, I also don't think UD or any Catholic institution should be hiring Rick Pitino. Doesn't make me right, just makes me someone whose values and beliefs, (and that doesn't mean those are right either), come before the potential record of my college basketball team. It is sort of being presented as a false choice I think. "You can either have a dirt bag as a coach or you can lose, which do you want?" There are plenty of decent human beings out there that are also great basketball coaches.

Umm, he did it when playing for Evansville not Xavier.

It doesn't bother me that you hold it against him all these years, that says something about your character to me. But to say someone's character doesn't change from when they are in their late teens to when they are in their 50s is just plain wrong. It can be as simple as say finding 1000 dollars laying in the street and thinking "****, I hit the lottery today, going to get that big screen tv I always wanted" to "man, whoever lost that 1000 dollars might have lost everything they have and I should at least try to find out who it is and return it"

Lifes lessons change character. You develop sympathy and empathy through lifes experiences. Bopping someone in the nose with a basketball because your coach told you too might not seem that terrible and you have a 'who cares" attitude about it. Then someone takes a cheapshot of equal consequence at you and you realize that yes it is a big deal and you shouldn't have done it in the first place.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Umm, he did it when playing for Evansville not Xavier. It doesn't bother me that you hold it against him all these years, that says something about your character to me. But to say someone's character doesn't change from when they are in their late teens to when they are in their 50s is just plain wrong. It can be as simple as say finding 1000 dollars laying in the street and thinking "****, I hit the lottery today, going to get that big screen tv I always wanted" to "man, whoever lost that 1000 dollars might have lost everything they have and I should at least try to find out who it is and return it" Lifes lessons change character. You develop sympathy and empathy through lifes experiences. Bopping someone in the nose with a basketball because your coach told you too might not seem that terrible and you have a 'who cares" attitude about it. Then someone takes a cheapshot of equal consequence at you and you realize that yes it is a big deal and you shouldn't have done it in the first place.

Sorry for the mistake,

How do you not understand that not thinking he should be our coach is not the same thing as holding it against him for all these years. I don't think Chris Mack is a horrible human being, but he did something bad on a basketball court, something that I am guessing a lot of people nineteen or not, would have said "no I'm not gonna do that" and he did it to Dayton and Wes Coffee. I just don't think it is crazy to believe that is something the University should and would consider if he were a candidate, among many I assume, for the UD coaching job.

We'll have to agree to disagree on whether character is built or revealed. As I said I can only base what I perceive on my life experiences, which I am sure are different than yours and neither better or worse than the other.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[CT Flyer]

I wonder if Scott Schreffler has been villainized for the last 35 years too?

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 Sorry for the mistake, How do you not understand that not thinking he should be our coach is not the same thing as holding it against him for all these years. I don't think Chris Mack is a horrible human being, but he did something bad on a basketball court, something that I am guessing a lot of people nineteen or not, would have said "no I'm not gonna do that" and he did it to Dayton and Wes Coffee. I just don't think it is crazy to believe that is something the University should and would consider if he were a candidate, among many I assume, for the UD coaching job. We'll have to agree to disagree on whether character is built or revealed. As I said I can only base what I perceive on my life experiences, which I am sure are different than yours and neither better or worse than the other.

What? You're the one who said his character should be judged on what he did 35 years ago. If you don't think he should be our coach for that incident, I can think of reasons you're right. I mean there are 360 some division one teams, why the one who's fan base he ****ed off the most? But to say an apology that took place (what maybe within 10 years of the event) of something that happened 35 years ago isn't enough, when we're talking about a smack in the nose from a basketball by a teenager just seems ludicrous to me.

You don't want Mack as our coach for any reason, I respect that, just not the generalization that he showed his character as a teen and he never made amends.

And one more thing. Coffee was angry with him for at least a few years after the incident. Then Coffee has changed and realized it just isn't something you judge someone by for the rest of their life. I would say that Coffee's character changed, at least minimally, to be able to do that, wouldn't you?

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 What? You're the one who said his character should be judged on what he did 35 years ago. If you don't think he should be our coach for that incident, I can think of reasons you're right. I mean there are 360 some division one teams, why the one who's fan base he ****ed off the most? But to say an apology that took place (what maybe within 10 years of the event) of something that happened 35 years ago isn't enough, when we're talking about a smack in the nose from a basketball by a teenager just seems ludicrous to me. You don't want Mack as our coach for any reason, I respect that, just not the generalization that he showed his character as a teen and he never made amends. And one more thing. Coffee was angry with him for at least a few years after the incident. Then Coffee has changed and realized it just isn't something you judge someone by for the rest of their life. I would say that Coffee's character changed, at least minimally, to be able to do that, wouldn't you?

It is clear that we disagree on what character is. You think it is how you act and feel, I think it is what influences you to act and feel the way you do. In other words I think a person's character is innate, you think it is learned. It is the classic, are you a thief because you steal or do you steal because you are a thief question.

This is I think the 4th time and hopefully the last, that I will say, YOU ARE FEE TO JUDGE HIM AS YOU WISH!!! I didn't say his character should be judged on that incident, I said I THOUGHT that incident revealed his character while acknowledging that others might disagree or not care. Why is that not acceptable on a forum where people share thoughts and opinions?

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer I wonder if Scott Schreffler has been villainized for the last 35 years too?

Just so I can be guilty of what I am being accused of, I feel like I should start a "Why I still hate Chris Mack and always will" blog... Because posting on something regularly and continuing to harp on it so that nobody forgets is what vilainization is. When people floated his name as a hire, (again for the coaching vacancy we don't have), I simply pointed out that, while others were free to judge him as they wish (#5), to me that incident was revealing of his character and I wouldn't want him to be UD's coach. All villains should have it so good.

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer I wonder if Scott Schreffler has been villainized for the last 35 years too?

OK, I'll bite Remind who Mr. Schreffler is.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 It seems that most people that complain about millennials have no sense of how old millennials even are now.

My kids were born in 91 and 94; both consider themselves millenials and I accept their definition. Both are woke, though the older one is starting to question some things that seems like "BS" so maybe there's hope for her.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 It is clear that we disagree on what character is. You think it is how you act and feel, I think it is what influences you to act and feel the way you do. In other words I think a person's character is innate, you think it is learned. It is the classic, are you a thief because you steal or do you steal because you are a thief question. This is I think the 4th time and hopefully the last, that I will say, YOU ARE FEE TO JUDGE HIM AS YOU WISH!!! I didn't say his character should be judged on that incident, I said I THOUGHT that incident revealed his character while acknowledging that others might disagree or not care. Why is that not acceptable on a forum where people share thoughts and opinions?

lol, I never said your opinion is unacceptable on a forum. But I'm countering your opinion with mine. Why is that not acceptable? And why is that any different than what you are doing? If countering an opinion is not acceptable, why the "Quote" option? Otherwise we all just post our opinions and never have a reply to those. What's the use of that?

I always stand by "I might not agree with what you say, but I'll defend with every fiber of my being your right to say it.". Unfortunately, a lot of people in this country(not you) think differently now. And my opinion of those people are that they are selfish and ignorant. Anyone feel free to counter that.

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 Wes Coffee may have forgiven him because that is the kind of guy Wes Coffee is. Does Wes Coffee hang out with him on the regular, did he name one of his kids for him or something? As I stated earlier "I'm sorry - I forgive you" doesn't operate as a time maching and erase the event. I have seen the mothers of murder victims forgive the person who killed their son, it doens't make it OK, the State doesn't say, "Oh, well then case dismissed." Apology and forgiveness are things that occur between two people. When you do something like that as publically as he did it, it is what it is as far as how people feel about it/you. It's not that I don't forgive Chris Mack, it isn't my place to forgive him, but I can certainly have an opinion of what kind of person he is based on what I have seen. Luckily for him he doesn't care what my opinion is nor does it hold any consequence in his life. And for the record, I am not clinging to anything. I haven't thought about Chris Mack or that incident in years and wouldn't have today unless someone brought it up in the context of Mack being hired to fill the coaching vacancy we don't have. I think, all things being equal it is a valid consideration.

Fair enough. I remember watching that game at Walnut Hills. We all went nuts. In hindsight that day does indeed say a lot about what kind of person Mack is/was. He does what is coach tells him (something a lot of people on here put a premium on). Then he was the only Evansville player or coach to try to shake hands and make amends that day. He wrote that letter to Coffee. He then transferred away in large part because of that incident (remember in 1990 transfers were rather rare) I guess you could look at it through a certain lens to say he is a good guy based on his actions.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by The Gem I find it funny and sad that Wes Coffee - that would be the guy got the ball thrown in his face- can forgive and forget, but a bunch of people on a message board can't. It makes me wonder what other slights real and imagined are they clinging to? I guess some people are bound and determined to hold onto every grudge and grievance and walk around with a permanent scowl. Have fun with that.

Well first of all, I'd imagine that if ole Wes was in a bar, talking to his brother, after a few drinks, he might still admit he'd like to play a pickup game with Mack and maybe throw him the ball high and tight; maybe not.

Second, if Mack went on to become a priest or minister, I'd probably be more forgiving; but since his teams generally played like punks at X...let's just say I take the apology letter with a grain of salt. Besides what kind of idiot would Coffee look like if he said something like "yeah, it's been over 30 years and I still hate the SOB"?

I just don't like Mack ok? Can that not be enough?

[runnerup]

And played like punks they did.

[Figgie123]

Originally Posted by The Gem I guess some people are bound and determined to hold onto every grudge and grievance and walk around with a permanent scowl. Have fun with that.

I'm still p*ssed off that I was not selected for the position of Vice-King in the Squared Circle of 12 by rollo. Instead I was demoted (somehow) to Jester, and official Calculate 15% Tax Man since the King still hasn't passed 3rd grade math. At least I got some chicken nuggets.

--Figgie

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by The Gem OK, I'll bite Remind who Mr. Schreffler is.

He was a very good player for Evansville and was the first to throw the ball off of Coffee's face. I believe he had a game where he score 40+ against us the year after Scott Haffner scored 64 against us.

Flyer98 I was not pointing that question at you, I was sincerely asking if people thought the same about him as Mack. I wonder if Schreffler was apologetic or felt any guilt over his role in the incident.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 lol, I never said your opinion is unacceptable on a forum. But I'm countering your opinion with mine. Why is that not acceptable? And why is that any different than what you are doing? If countering an opinion is not acceptable, why the "Quote" option? Otherwise we all just post our opinions and never have a reply to those. What's the use of that? I always stand by "I might not agree with what you say, but I'll defend with every fiber of my being your right to say it.". Unfortunately, a lot of people in this country(not you) think differently now. And my opinion of those people are that they are selfish and ignorant. Anyone feel free to counter that.

I said three posts ago that we would have to agree to disagree on what character is. I sort of thought that meant that I disagreed with your opinion, you disagreed with mine, neither of us was likely to change the other's mind so let's move on. To modify something I said, you CAN certainly think my opinion is unacceptable, I was just trying to say that it didn't strike me as the end of the world that we had an unresolved difference of opinion on the old message board.

I agree with your thoughts on free speech. I remember they taught us that Voltaire quote freshman year at UD. The irony is is that Voltaire actually said "I will defend to the death your right to say it..." How far we have fallen from that lofty aspiration.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer He was a very good player for Evansville and was the first to throw the ball off of Coffee's face. I believe he had a game where he score 40+ against us the year after Scott Haffner scored 64 against us. Flyer98 I was not pointing that question at you, I was sincerely asking if people thought the same about him as Mack. I wonder if Schreffler was apologetic or felt any guilt over his role in the incident.

No worries, my only point and perhaps your question served to illuminate this, was that it was Mack's mention as a possible head coaching hire, and not a 35 year old grudge that drew the reaction it did.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 I said three posts ago that we would have to agree to disagree on what character is. I sort of thought that meant that I disagreed with your opinion, you disagreed with mine, neither of us was likely to change the other's mind so let's move on. To modify something I said, you CAN certainly think my opinion is unacceptable, I was just trying to say that it didn't strike me as the end of the world that we had an unresolved difference of opinion on the old message board. I agree with your thoughts on free speech. I remember they taught us that Voltaire quote freshman year at UD. The irony is is that Voltaire actually said "I will defend to the death your right to say it..." How far we have fallen from that lofty aspiration.

I respect this. But just to address your "agree to disagree so why keep going" question. When I respond to post with a counter, I'm not doing so for just a one on one back and forth. I'm also debating those that agree with you and also doing it for the benefit of those that don't. My opinion so I'm giving it in response to something you said, but not necessarily for just your benefit or to change your mind.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by ud2 I know, pot meet kettle.

I would call the term "hypocrite". Ever notice what a hypocrite does when you call him out? He exits the thread.

Paging the self-proclaimed sad and pathetic Marysville Flyer.

[Clear Prop]

smh... Did it ever occur to you that others have better things to do than stay on this site 24/7 and skulk down yours and others rabbit holes?

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Figgie123 I'm still p*ssed off that I was not selected for the position of Vice-King in the Squared Circle of 12 by rollo. Instead I was demoted (somehow) to Jester, and official Calculate 15% Tax Man since the King still hasn't passed 3rd grade math. At least I got some chicken nuggets. --Figgie

Na-na na-na boo-boo

Filet Mignon with a side of my scallops scampi tonight

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Clear Prop smh... Did it ever occur to you that others have better things to do than stay on this site 24/7 and skulk down yours and others rabbit holes?

oh, didn't realize that a hypocrite loses his hypocrite-ness by staying away. Thanks for enlightening me.

[shocka43]

The fact we are even discussing Mack coming to UD says quite a bit.... and how insignificant we are if we don't have a better pool pool of candidates with less ties to Xavier and bad history with those who were at that game.

This is going to be a long off-season.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.