Smoke on twitter

[Jack D]

AG to take promotion in Athletic Dept and walk away from coaching

Links posted below... interesting if true but probably just bs

[Flyer 86]

Maybe a link?

[Jack D]

https://twitter.com/BlackburnReview/...678652930?s=20

[Jack D]

https://twitter.com/Charles_James1/s...165211136?s=20

[Swampy Meadows]

Originally Posted by Jack D https://twitter.com/BlackburnReview/...678652930?s=20

Let's go to the Blackburn Review website for confirmation.

Oh wait...

[bcross]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows Let's go to the Blackburn Review website for confirmation. Oh wait...

Remember when you did this same thing with BG and the Georgia Tech rumors?

[Jack D]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows Let's go to the Blackburn Review website for confirmation. Oh wait...

Haha.

[Jeff]

I heard this from another not associated with the twitter comment.

Part 2 was Greer would move up.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows Let's go to the Blackburn Review website for confirmation. Oh wait...

Hard time letting go, huh? As you know, they have a podcast now. That's what the young fellers do these days Swampy.

Think of it as CSNBC for people that are much younger than you or I, but with differing opinions.

[Swampy Meadows]

Originally Posted by bcross Remember when you did this same thing with BG and the Georgia Tech rumors?

I would search the Blackburn website for all the bullsh*t rumors that they promoted, but all I get is this:

Hmmm… can't reach this page

Check if there is a typo in www.blackburnreview.com.
-Search the web for blackburnreview
-If spelling is correct, try running Windows Network Diagnostics.

DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Jeff I heard this from another not associated with the twitter comment. Part 2 was Greer would move up.

Great, let's keep the stench of Grant's chosen assistants running the team. Sounds like another lazy hire by our athletic director.

[Jack D]

https://twitter.com/BlackburnReview?s=20

[Furio]

yes probably bs considering the source

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Great, let's keep the stench of Grant's chosen assistants running the team. Sounds like another lazy hire by our athletic director.

I agree, nothing against Greer, but if they are going to make a change, then clean house.

If they were going to promote an assistant, the time to do that was when Archie left.

[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows I would search the Blackburn website for all the bullsh*t rumors that they promoted, but all I get is this: Hmmm… can't reach this page Check if there is a typo in www.blackburnreview.com. -Search the web for blackburnreview -If spelling is correct, try running Windows Network Diagnostics. DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN

You could write about playing basketball at the park with the boys as you slam BBR in your next “article”

[maddog07]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer You could write about playing basketball at the park with the boys as you slam BBR in your next “article”

And who needs rumors when we have the great Jablonski. Did you hear his softballs at the press conference!

Might have asked where our outside shooting is. Or why didn’t we take a timeout when the massacre was beginning. Or why does Smith dribble around and around and around and….
Posted via Mobile Device

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by maddog07 And who needs rumors when we have the great Jablonski. Did you hear his softballs at the press conference! Might have asked where our outside shooting is. Or why didn’t we take a timeout when the massacre was beginning. Or why does Smith dribble around and around and around and…. Posted via Mobile Device

Or...Why does he insist on calling every offensive play????

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Still some smoke, even from non Blackburn sources.

So why is this thread which could turn into the biggest news of the off season, now in the off topic area and not the basketball forum?

[jack72]

Why is this thread moved to Off Topic, when it is all about UD basketball? Very strange.

[UDEE79]

Originally Posted by jack72 Why is this thread moved to Off Topic, when it is all about UD basketball? Very strange.

I agree this topic could not be more on topic.

[Chris R]

I have no idea I did not move it. I have moved it back.

[The Gem]

Give Swampy a break. The guys at BBR are pretty rough on him every chance they get. Say what you want about the BBR, their unsubstantiated rumors tend to be accurate a good bit of the time. This would be an interesting move. It seems like a classic case of kicking someone upstairs. I think it would clear the way for Greer to be promoted to head coach. I will say this, just about every recruit that comes here talks about how Greer was a huge factor in their decision to come to UD.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by The Gem Give Swampy a break. The guys at BBR are pretty rough on him every chance they get. Say what you want about the BBR, their unsubstantiated rumors tend to be accurate a good bit of the time. This would be an interesting move. It seems like a classic case of kicking someone upstairs. I think it would clear the way for Greer to be promoted to head coach. I will say this, just about every recruit that comes here talks about how Greer was a huge factor in their decision to come to UD.

IF AG leaves, I like Greer.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by The Gem The guys at BBR are pretty rough on him every chance they get.

Do you mean on Twitter? I listen to most of the podcasts and can't recall a single reference unless it went over my head.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by TommyGola Or...Why does he insist on calling every offensive play????

I assume you’re referring to Grant, right? My answer is, because he doesn’t trust that our PG will call a play that has a high probability of success. The follow-up question then becomes, is that lack of trust warranted? I do not profess to know the answer to that question.
Posted via Mobile Device

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Do you mean on Twitter? I listen to most of the podcasts and can't recall a single reference unless it went over my head.

I am a weirdo. I don't have any social media accounts and I have never listened to a podcast in my life (I did have a Facebook account for a while, but I deleted long ago). I used to read BBR all the time and they slammed Swampy routinely. Now while I found it all rather hilarious, if I was Swampy, I would absolutely hate those guys.
Just for the record, I don't really have an opinion about Swampy or anyone on this site since I only know one person on here in real life. That would be Glenn Clark. We are not close by any means, but he seems like a good dude. I don't know the rest of you, at least I don't think I do, so I don't make character judgements based on message board ramblings.

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 IF AG leaves, I like Greer.

I feel the same way, but they should absolutely look outside the program too. Don't just hand him the keys the program automatically.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by The Gem I am a weirdo. I don't have any social media accounts and I have never listened to a podcast in my life (I did have a Facebook account for a while, but I deleted long ago). I used to read BBR all the time and they slammed Swampy routinely. Now while I found it all rather hilarious, if I was Swampy, I would absolutely hate those guys. Just for the record, I don't really have an opinion about Swampy or anyone on this site since I only know one person on here in real life. That would be Glenn Clark. We are not close by any means, but he seems like a good dude. I don't know the rest of you, at least I don't think I do, so I don't make character judgements based on message board ramblings.

Ahh you mean the old BBR page. That's been defunct for quite a while. I don't know Swampy from Adam, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's adult enough not to hold grudges.

Originally Posted by The Gem I feel the same way, but they should absolutely look outside the program too. Don't just hand him the keys the program automatically.

I like Greer, and wouldn't hate an in-house promotion, BUT, it is concerning that he was unable to get in AG's ear about all the in-game/end of game concerns we harp on so much here.

Why couldn't Greer prevail on him to call more TOs to stop runs? Why didn't he explain to AG that leaving an open scholarship is stupid and could burn us later? Maybe he did and AG ignored him, but if I were Neil I would get an answer to these questions before considering anyone on the current staff. If they couldn't change his mind that's one thing. If they didn't try to that's quite another.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by The Gem I feel the same way, but they should absolutely look outside the program too. Don't just hand him the keys the program automatically.

Agree, it IS possible that if AG leaves and they approached Pitino, I'd forget his Louisville escapades just to see what he could actually do in this dying city named Dayton.

[flyer016]

Unless the administration knows something about Greer that the rest of us don't--and they **** well better be sure of it--that's not the hire for the program right now.

It's a program that's stagnated, that continues to trip over the same hurdles. Why go with a continuity hire?

Internal hires always feel lazy and short-sighted, and I don't know what Greer has done to intrigue people. Illinois chasing him as an assistant coach and some positive pub from recruits/players ain't enough.

Throw in the fact that's he never been a head coach anywhere, and it's a hard no on Greer.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Agree, it IS possible that if AG leaves and they approached Pitino, I'd forget his Louisville escapades just to see what he could actually do in this dying city named Dayton.

It sort of sounds like Pitino and Saint John's are already married to each other. Time to move on to the next target probably.

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Ahh you mean the old BBR page. That's been defunct for quite a while. I don't know Swampy from Adam, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's adult enough not to hold grudges. I like Greer, and wouldn't hate an in-house promotion, BUT, it is concerning that he was unable to get in AG's ear about all the in-game/end of game concerns we harp on so much here. Why couldn't Greer prevail on him to call more TOs to stop runs? Why didn't he explain to AG that leaving an open scholarship is stupid and could burn us later? Maybe he did and AG ignored him, but if I were Neil I would get an answer to these questions before considering anyone on the current staff. If they couldn't change his mind that's one thing. If they didn't try to that's quite another.

I don't know about you, but I don't know that he didn't do all those things. Maybe he did and Grant didn't listen.

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Agree, it IS possible that if AG leaves and they approached Pitino, I'd forget his Louisville escapades just to see what he could actually do in this dying city named Dayton.

I am going have to separate myself from the Pitino talk. I will take a pass on Coach Sleazy and his Col Sanders suites thank you very much.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by The Gem I don't know about you, but I don't know that he didn't do all those things. Maybe he did and Grant didn't listen.

I agree and said as much in my post. I would just want to know for sure before considering him, that's all.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Agree, it IS possible that if AG leaves and they approached Pitino, I'd forget his Louisville escapades just to see what he could actually do in this dying city named Dayton.

Well... the tornado and a fire took out most of the Dayton strip clubs so maybe that wouldn't be an issue.

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by shocka43 Well... the tornado and a fire took out most of the Dayton strip clubs so maybe that wouldn't be an issue.

But there's still some Italian restaurants...

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by The Gem . . . since I only know one person on here in real life. That would be Glenn Clark. We are not close by any means, but he seems like a good dude. . .

Thanks Joe, but just one N please - we Welsh only go overboard with C's and L's

_____________________
Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

[OSU Flyer]

@sullymygoodname

The buzz around UD for weeks has been AG stepping down and Greer being a replacement head coach. Didn't put much stock in it then, don't put much stock in it now. The inside sources will likely know when everyone else does.
Posted via Mobile Device

[OSU Flyer]

@samurai_hoops

Samurai Sources tell The Dojo…

Dayton HC Anthony Grant is continuing to mull his retirement with a decision expected soon…#StayTuned
Posted via Mobile Device

[Swampy Meadows]

Samurai Hoops was also the tweet source that said High Point was joining the Atlantic 10, so zero credibility.
Posted via Mobile Device

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows Samurai Hoops was also the tweet source that said High Point was joining the Atlantic 10, so zero credibility. Posted via Mobile Device

No, that's not what they said. They said High Point is pursuing joining the A10, not that they were joining. Also, believe it or not, they DID join the A10 in Lacrosse. So, you mischaracterized what they said and you are also at least partially wrong.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows Samurai Hoops was also the tweet source that said High Point was joining the Atlantic 10, so zero credibility. Posted via Mobile Device

Hanging on for dear life.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan No, that's not what they said. They said High Point is pursuing joining the A10, not that they were joining. Also, believe it or not, they DID join the A10 in Lacrosse. So, you mischaracterized what they said and you are also at least partially wrong.

Local CNN reporter is what he is...

He can hang on to the sliver of hope there aren't big changes around here...but I am pretty sure there will be. I wonder how his narrative changes down the road.

[Figgie123]

Originally Posted by shocka43 Local CNN reporter is what he is... He can hang on to the sliver of hope there aren't big changes around here...but I am pretty sure there will be. I wonder how his narrative changes down the road.

When has his narrative ever changed down the road from anything?

[ud2]

Originally Posted by shocka43 He can hang on to the sliver of hope there aren't big changes around here...but I am pretty sure there will be.

I hope you are not yanking our chains.

People not ascribing legitimacy to these type of things is normal, it is hard for some UD fans to let go, the UD fans really love and support their coaches. That is part of the problem IMO. UD fans are exceedingly patient and forgiving.

Nobody believed the BG rumors until it was a done deal, the exact same things were said by the skeptics.

Remember when Archie was wondering why people were still showing up to his coach's show when the team was not doing well? That type of unconditional support doesn't happen everywhere.

[N2663R]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer @samurai_hoops Samurai Sources tell The Dojo… Dayton HC Anthony Grant is continuing to mull his retirement with a decision expected soon…#StayTuned Posted via Mobile Device

If AG's going to stay, please tell me on St. Patrick's Day morning so I can drink in celebration. If he's going to leave, tell me on Saturday morning since I'll already be hung over . . .

[Chris R]

Anyone with a pulse would expect AG to consider his long term life path after this season. Its self evident. You dont need Peter Jennings for that.

What he decides to do is another matter. He has a lot to consider and a lot of people it may affect. The coaching life is family life. You don't decide alone. Likely made more complicated because UD is also his family.

[FLYER5]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 I assume you’re referring to Grant, right? My answer is, because he doesn’t trust that our PG will call a play that has a high probability of success. The follow-up question then becomes, is that lack of trust warranted? I do not profess to know the answer to that question. Posted via Mobile Device

Let's call at least four plays that frees up Blakney for a three. Yeesh!

[Hobopotamus1]

This rumor "feels" like it's correct.

1) The last few weeks, the team played like they were not in it for the long haul (past this season), like AG would not be the coach next year.

2) UD would never fire AG after a year like the one we just had, especially after the tragedy with his daughter.

3) It would just make sense, at least to me, that AG would make his home here whether or not his heart was still in coaching.

4) AG is the ultimate representative of what the University is all about, regardless of what you think about his coaching, and would add tremendous value in the Athletic department. BTW, it is safe to say that Rick Pitino does not represent what the university is all about. If he got hired, I'd eat my shoe and then give up my season tickets. But I digress.

5) Greer does not have the "Big Whistle" head coach personality, BUT that may be an old-school (like two years ago) way of thinking. Maybe, and I'm saying maybe, the wave of the future for HCs is to be more like Greer: the recruiter who can truly identify with kids so that they are less likely to transfer under the current rules.

I just think this just looks like what is most likely going to happen. Of course, it almost goes without saying that this would be the best way to keep as many guys from transferring, including the option of AG wanting to be the HC.

FWIW, Anthony Grant is a GREAT man with integrity and class. He's everything UD wishes to stand for. He deserves everyone's respect, and of course, we should wish him well no matter what he decides is best for him and his family.

[Flyers98]

If the team knew he wasn't coming back, (your #1), it wouldn't take a week to announce. The longer we go without an announcement, the less true I perceive this to be. I get that AG might take need some time to make such a decision but he also realizes that there is stuff to do and the next coach is disadvantaged by every day that goes by, especially if he were taking a role in the athletic department I can't imagine this wouldn't be confirmed by now.

I have no idea if this is true or not, but I will just say that if it isn't true I don't think this would be the first time a group of fans started something on Twitter hoping it would gain momentum and become self fulfilling.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 If the team knew he wasn't coming back, (your #1), it wouldn't take a week to announce. The longer we go without an announcement, the less true I perceive this to be. I get that AG might take need some time to make such a decision but he also realizes that there is stuff to do and the next coach is disadvantaged by every day that goes by, especially if he were taking a role in the athletic department I can't imagine this wouldn't be confirmed by now.

I tend to agree, it shouldn't be taking this long if they were going to make a change.

I still can't believe that SLU is apparently bringing Travis Ford back for another year. He was/is the highest paid coach in the A10, and he is 1/7, and he is still SLU's coach.

The howling on here will be pretty loud if Grant is 1/7 this time next year, and he is still UD's coach.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[flyer016]

Originally Posted by Hobopotamus1 This rumor "feels" like it's correct. 1) The last few weeks, the team played like they were not in it for the long haul (past this season), like AG would not be the coach next year. 2) UD would never fire AG after a year like the one we just had, especially after the tragedy with his daughter. 3) It would just make sense, at least to me, that AG would make his home here whether or not his heart was still in coaching. 4) AG is the ultimate representative of what the University is all about, regardless of what you think about his coaching, and would add tremendous value in the Athletic department. BTW, it is safe to say that Rick Pitino does not represent what the university is all about. If he got hired, I'd eat my shoe and then give up my season tickets. But I digress. 5) Greer does not have the "Big Whistle" head coach personality, BUT that may be an old-school (like two years ago) way of thinking. Maybe, and I'm saying maybe, the wave of the future for HCs is to be more like Greer: the recruiter who can truly identify with kids so that they are less likely to transfer under the current rules. I just think this just looks like what is most likely going to happen. Of course, it almost goes without saying that this would be the best way to keep as many guys from transferring, including the option of AG wanting to be the HC. FWIW, Anthony Grant is a GREAT man with integrity and class. He's everything UD wishes to stand for. He deserves everyone's respect, and of course, we should wish him well no matter what he decides is best for him and his family.

I think a good deal of this makes sense, and it's spelled out well.

However, I don't think there's anything to be read into the timing. They played their last game five days ago. And if they've already decided on Greer as the next guy, then there's no rush at all.

I think hiring Greer would be a big mistake and extremely short-sighted. Sure, there's continuity, and you're more likely to retain players, but we have no idea what Greer is as a head coach. The foundation at Dayton is strong enough that they don't need to roll the dice on first-time head coaches, especially ones whose sum-total coaching experience is six seasons at Dayton.

There's always a call for an internal hire. Think Ron Jirsa, Billy Schmidt and Tom Ostrom; none went on to prove themselves as good head coaches.

Dayton basketball is bigger than handing the job over to the most obvious guy. Unless there's absolute certainty Greer is a superstar-in-waiting, it makes zero sense (and feels lazy, honestly). Sullivan would be effectively pinning his job to Greer's coaching success.

[hawkoooo]

I'm not sure we should care about retaining players or the possibility of it.

Already gone: Baker, Kaleb

Almost certainly gone: Tou, Holmes, Mike

Up in the air: Elvis, Amzil (this is a stretch, he could make $ overseas)

Might stay: Mali, Brea

Who cares: RJ, Rich, Zimi

So, best case scenario, could we even field a starting lineup with the leftovers? We should probably be preparing ourselves for total roster overhaul.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

Archie and BG were first time head coaches. It’s not crazy talk. I’m most concerned that the next coach has a proven ability to recruit and has concrete examples of player development.
Posted via Mobile Device

[flyer016]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer Archie and BG were first time head coaches. It’s not crazy talk. I’m most concerned that the next coach has a proven ability to recruit and has concrete examples of player development. Posted via Mobile Device

BG and Archie had entirely different pedigrees.

BG had spent years under one of the most respected coaches in college basketball, including two years as his associate head coach.

Archie was more of a roll of the dice but had all the signs of an up-and-coming star in coaching, and I think if he didn't land at Dayton in 2011, he'd have landed something similar. Archie had coached under Herb Sendek, Thad Matt and his brother for eight years.

Greer, on the other hand, is being courted for other assistant gigs and MAC jobs. He's got six years of experience under Grant (who is being pushed out).

I'm not sure this lays it out all that well, and you're welcome to argue that at the time of their hires, BG, Archie and Greer are all in the same class, but I don't think many people around here would really agree.

[TXFlyerFan]

Students are out at UD for spring break, the players are away. There's no way an announcement would be made while the players aren't back. They would be first to be told, and I doubt AG has made a final decision yet. He may be waiting until final evaluations are done to get a sense of who might be returning too. If there is mass turnover, he may decide to bow out and not want a rebuild, which would not likely help his reputation in terms of making the tournament. I wouldn't expect anything to happen until late next week earliest.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan Students are out at UD for spring break, the players are away. There's no way an announcement would be made while the players aren't back. They would be first to be told, and I doubt AG has made a final decision yet. He may be waiting until final evaluations are done to get a sense of who might be returning too. If there is mass turnover, he may decide to bow out and not want a rebuild, which would not likely help his reputation in terms of making the tournament. I wouldn't expect anything to happen until late next week earliest.

The original post suggested that the team has known for weeks.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by flyer016 BG and Archie had entirely different pedigrees. BG had spent years under one of the most respected coaches in college basketball, including two years as his associate head coach. Archie was more of a roll of the dice but had all the signs of an up-and-coming star in coaching, and I think if he didn't land at Dayton in 2011, he'd have landed something similar. Archie had coached under Herb Sendek, Thad Matt and his brother for eight years. Greer, on the other hand, is being courted for other assistant gigs and MAC jobs. He's got six years of experience under Grant (who is being pushed out). I'm not sure this lays it out all that well, and you're welcome to argue that at the time of their hires, BG, Archie and Greer are all in the same class, but I don't think many people around here would really agree.

Here is an interesting case study on rumor mills: A rumor is started or is shared, then the rumor starts gradually being stated as fact, "Grant (who is being pushed out)" and then the snowball starts rolling down the hill.

Who is pushing him out and how do you know this?

[Hyde Park Flyer]

Originally Posted by flyer016 BG and Archie had entirely different pedigrees. BG had spent years under one of the most respected coaches in college basketball, including two years as his associate head coach. Archie was more of a roll of the dice but had all the signs of an up-and-coming star in coaching, and I think if he didn't land at Dayton in 2011, he'd have landed something similar. Archie had coached under Herb Sendek, Thad Matt and his brother for eight years. Greer, on the other hand, is being courted for other assistant gigs and MAC jobs. He's got six years of experience under Grant (who is being pushed out). I'm not sure this lays it out all that well, and you're welcome to argue that at the time of their hires, BG, Archie and Greer are all in the same class, but I don't think many people around here would really agree.

I’m not saying that Greer should be the next guy. I’m only saying that hiring an assistant coach rather than an experienced head coach isn’t a crazy idea. It would be great to score a Keith Urgo type guy. I definitely agree that Urgo, BG, and Miller had much longer coaching careers before getting a head coach gig than Greer. It’s a simple fact. That makes me worry about possibly hiring Greer as well.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer I’m not saying that Greer should be the next guy. I’m only saying that hiring an assistant coach rather than an experienced head coach isn’t a crazy idea. It would be great to score a Keith Urgo type guy. I definitely agree that Urgo, BG, and Miller had much longer coaching careers before getting a head coach gig than Greer. It’s a simple fact. That makes me worry about possibly hiring Greer as well. Posted via Mobile Device

I think posters are objecting to hiring an in-house assistant who has no head coaching experience.

BG and AM were both brought in from the outside. We started over fresh with BG and AM.

With Greer, we would be promoting an assistant to our current head coach, when our current head coach is becoming increasingly unpopular with each passing season.

There were two recent polls on this topic on udpride.


First poll:
58% of the voters want Grant fired after next year if we miss the ncaat next year.

Second poll:
40% of the voters want Grant fired right now.


Based on those poll results, making Greer the next hc doesn't make any sense IMO.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by ud2 I think posters are objecting to hiring an in-house assistant who has no head coaching experience. BG and AM were both brought in from the outside. We started over fresh with BG and AM. With Greer, we would be promoting an assistant to our current head coach, when our current head coach is becoming increasingly unpopular with each passing season. There were two recent polls on this topic on udpride. First poll: 58% of the voters want Grant fired after next year if we miss the ncaat next year. Second poll: 40% of the voters want Grant fired right now. Based on those poll results, making Greer the next hc doesn't make any sense IMO.

The day UD starts making coaching decisions based on fan polls is the day I find another team to follow.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by ud2 I think posters are objecting to hiring an in-house assistant who has no head coaching experience. BG and AM were both brought in from the outside. We started over fresh with BG and AM. With Greer, we would be promoting an assistant to our current head coach, when our current head coach is becoming increasingly unpopular with each passing season. There were two recent polls on this topic on udpride. First poll: 58% of the voters want Grant fired after next year if we miss the ncaat next year. Second poll: 40% of the voters want Grant fired right now. Based on those poll results, making Greer the next hc doesn't make any sense IMO.

I'm not sure why not. Frankly, weren't you arguing for hiring one of Archie's assistants when he left? Now, if Grant leaves, suddenly Greer isn't good enough? He has as much HC experience as AM did. I'm not saying if Grant stepped down that Greer is the right choice, but if there is an opening, he should have every opportunity to interview for the job.

[flyer016]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 The day UD starts making coaching decisions based on fan polls is the day I find another team to follow.

What are you even talking about?

The poster was referencing polls to discuss fan sentiment.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan I'm not sure why not. Frankly, weren't you arguing for hiring one of Archie's assistants when he left? Now, if Grant leaves, suddenly Greer isn't good enough? He has as much HC experience as AM did. I'm not saying if Grant stepped down that Greer is the right choice, but if there is an opening, he should have every opportunity to interview for the job.

IMO, there is all the difference in the world between when Archie left vs. now.

Had we hired one of Archie's assistants, we would be looking to continue what Archie started. Archie was 4/6, the program was in excellent shape, everybody was happy, the fans were fat and happy.

With Grant, 58% of the fans want him fired after next year, the program is definitely on the rocks right now, many are unhappy. Why would we want more of what Grant brought?

See the difference?

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 IMO, there is all the difference in the world between when Archie left vs. now. Had we hired one of Archie's assistants, we would be looking to continue what Archie started. Archie was 4/6, the program was in excellent shape, everybody was happy, the fans were fat and happy. With Grant, 58% of the fans want him fired after next year, the program is definitely on the rocks right now, many are unhappy. Why would we want more of what Grant brought? See the difference?

On the rocks? Hyperbole much? Maybe some of what you are drinking should have been on the rocks. The entitled become the legends of empowerment in their own minds.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer On the rocks? Hyperbole much? Maybe some of what you are drinking should have been on the rocks. The entitled become the legends of empowerment in their own minds.

Seriously? 1/6 ISN'T on the rocks? What is your definition of on the rocks then?

Man, I would love to have some of you as my boss: low expectations, little risk of getting fired, cushy job.

[The Fly]

Originally Posted by ud2 With Grant, 58% of the fans want him fired after next year, the program is definitely on the rocks right now, many are unhappy. Why would we want more of what Grant brought?

Not stating an opinion on Grant, but your “58% of the fans” quote is ludicrous. You can hardly extrapolate a general percentage of Flyer fans based on a couple of unscientific UDPride polls. My guess is a real survey of the TOTAL fan base wouldn’t come close to that figure. What we state as “facts” these days is truly mind boggling.

[ud2]

And the other thing about SLU and Ford, is that I am sure the Big East is watching that situation and thinking: "hmmm, Ford is 1/7 at SLU, and these goofballs in the SLU administration are going to bring Ford back for another year. Remind me again why we should add SLU to the Big East? SLU clearly isn't serious about winning."

So, if Ford is brought back, that is advantageous to UD as far as getting into the Big East is concerned, as IMO bringing Ford back is definitely a bad look for SLU.

The Big East only wants teams that are serious about winning.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer On the rocks? Hyperbole much? Maybe some of what you are drinking should have been on the rocks. The entitled become the legends of empowerment in their own minds.

To reach AM's level of accomplishment (4/6), pretty sure AG would have to go to the tournament (roughly) the next 10 years in a row.

Should be fun.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by ud2 And the other thing about SLU and Ford, is that I am sure the Big East is watching that situation and thinking: "hmmm, Ford is 1/7 at SLU, and these goofballs in the SLU administration are going to bring Ford back for another year. Remind me again why we should add SLU to the Big East? SLU clearly isn't serious about winning." So, if Ford is brought back, that is advantageous to UD as far as getting into the Big East is concerned, as IMO bringing Ford back is definitely a bad look for SLU. The Big East only wants teams that are serious about winning.

Exactly, just like DePaul.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[UDGutter2]

In my opinion, Archie proved NCAA Tournament invites are partly dependent on your previous year. If they don't go to the Elite 8 in 2014, I don't think they get an invite in 2015. If they don't make the round of 32 in 2015, they may have still made 2016, but with a lower seed, same with 2017. And don't get me started on the pure luck that allowed Dayton to win the first game of 2013/14. They lose to Ft. Wayne, they're going nowhere.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 Seriously? 1/6 ISN'T on the rocks? What is your definition of on the rocks then? Man, I would love to have some of you as my boss: low expectations, little risk of getting fired, cushy job.

Using this logic the men’s BB program would have been removed from the company budget 30 years ago. 1 time in 50 years we’ve done substantially better. That’s a real long time to be on lift support. Outside of AM AG results are as good or better than anything I’ve seen in 45 years.
Posted via Mobile Device

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by ud2 IMO, there is all the difference in the world between when Archie left vs. now. Had we hired one of Archie's assistants, we would be looking to continue what Archie started. Archie was 4/6, the program was in excellent shape, everybody was happy, the fans were fat and happy. With Grant, 58% of the fans want him fired after next year, the program is definitely on the rocks right now, many are unhappy. Why would we want more of what Grant brought? See the difference?

No, because none of AMs assistants had any qualification to be the head coach. Zero. Whether Greer has that, I can't say, but Ostrom, Kuwik, and Griffen, none of them were ready to be a HC. And in the 6 years since AM left, none of them have been a HC, which pretty much proves that none of them were the right candidate.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Using this logic the men’s BB program would have been removed from the company budget 30 years ago. 1 time in 50 years we’ve done substantially better. That’s a real long time to be on lift support. Outside of AM AG results are as good or better than anything I’ve seen in 45 years. Posted via Mobile Device

Grant hasn't even matched Gregory in terms of NCAA appearances.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by UDGutter2 In my opinion, Archie proved NCAA Tournament invites are partly dependent on your previous year. If they don't go to the Elite 8 in 2014, I don't think they get an invite in 2015. If they don't make the round of 32 in 2015, they may have still made 2016, but with a lower seed, same with 2017. And don't get me started on the pure luck that allowed Dayton to win the first game of 2013/14. They lose to Ft. Wayne, they're going nowhere.

Enough of the BS. Take that FW game, and let's say they lose it. What if Langston Galloway doesn't get away with shoving Kyle Davis 5 feet with his forearm and then the subsequent 4 steps he took to get into 3 point territory to bury the 3 in the A10 tourney that they went on to win? Flyers probably get an Auto-Bid that year.

Funny how nobody said how lucky Archie was that season or any seasons after until they felt the need to prop up AG's failures. Then the revisionist history starts.

Also, your point about them not getting in the 2015 NCAA tournament is another load of crap. Just about everyone had the Flyers in the dance due to their resume of that season, nothing to do with 2013-2014. Hell, I remember how ****ed we were that they hadto play in the play-in game. That was the shocker, that we weren't give more respect, not that we were given too much.

[bcross]

Originally Posted by UDGutter2 In my opinion, Archie proved NCAA Tournament invites are partly dependent on your previous year. If they don't go to the Elite 8 in 2014, I don't think they get an invite in 2015. If they don't make the round of 32 in 2015, they may have still made 2016, but with a lower seed, same with 2017. And don't get me started on the pure luck that allowed Dayton to win the first game of 2013/14. They lose to Ft. Wayne, they're going nowhere.

Still went to the dance twice as often as Grant even if you take away two bids because of reasons???

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by ud2 . . . There were two recent polls on this topic on udpride. First poll: 58% of the voters want Grant fired after next year if we miss the ncaat next year. Second poll: 40% of the voters want Grant fired right now. Based on those poll results, making Greer the next hc doesn't make any sense IMO.

Totally bogus "polls" posted by the disgruntled minority, polling the disgruntled minority. Give me a break!

Originally Posted by Flyers98 The day UD starts making coaching decisions based on fan polls is the day I find another team to follow.

This ^^^

_____________________
Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Glen Clark Totally bogus "polls" posted by the disgruntled minority, polling the disgruntled minority. Give me a break! This ^^^ _____________________ Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

Was the poll limited to only people that wanted changes? I'm confused what makes it bogus.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Was the poll limited to only people that wanted changes? I'm confused what makes it bogus.

Glen Clark has now resorted to trolling and agenda driven garbage, hit and run posts. It's sad watching an old sweater vest lose his mind.

[zmz723]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Enough of the BS. Take that FW game, and let's say they lose it. What if Langston Galloway doesn't get away with shoving Kyle Davis 5 feet with his forearm and then the subsequent 4 steps he took to get into 3 point territory to bury the 3 in the A10 tourney that they went on to win? Flyers probably get an Auto-Bid that year. Funny how nobody said how lucky Archie was that season or any seasons after until they felt the need to prop up AG's failures. Then the revisionist history starts. Also, your point about them not getting in the 2015 NCAA tournament is another load of crap. Just about everyone had the Flyers in the dance due to their resume of that season, nothing to do with 2013-2014. Hell, I remember how ****ed we were that they hadto play in the play-in game. That was the shocker, that we weren't give more respect, not that we were given too much.

The revisionist history some people do here to diss a previous coach who was very successful to try and prop up the current underachieving coach is one of the strangest things I’ve seen in my sports fandom life.
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[zmz723]

If NCAA invites are partially based on the previous year, they should have easily gotten in in 2020-2021 with the senior guards, right? That just shows how disappointing that season was
Posted via Mobile Device

[ud2]

Originally Posted by zmz723 The revisionist history some people do here to diss a previous coach who was very successful to try and prop up the current underachieving coach is one of the strangest things I’ve seen in my sports fandom life. Posted via Mobile Device

I am very tired of it. They act like Archie was Al Capone. And when you ask them repeatedly to list some of the alleged offenses, they refuse and instead play this stupid game where they act like it is all a big secret where only privileged insiders get to know. They don't have to name names. I am very skeptical. They hate Archie because they thought he was a jerk, which he might have been, so they seem to make up some of this crap and use it to sully his reputation.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by ud2 I am very tired of it. They act like Archie was Al Capone. And when you ask them repeatedly to list some of the alleged offenses, they refuse and instead play this stupid game where they act like it is all a big secret where only privileged insiders get to know. They don't have to name names. I am very skeptical. They hate Archie because they thought he was a jerk, which he might have been, so they seem to make up some of this crap and use it to sully his reputation.

It's been only 6 years. The can't release that information due to national security risks.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan No, because none of AMs assistants had any qualification to be the head coach. Zero. Whether Greer has that, I can't say, but Ostrom, Kuwik, and Griffen, none of them were ready to be a HC. And in the 6 years since AM left, none of them have been a HC, which pretty much proves that none of them were the right candidate.

What do you mean you can't say? As far as I can tell, Greer actually has less experience than any of Archie's guys, so if they weren't qualified, then neither is Greer.

No, that doesn't prove that they weren't the right guy. Butler, Xavier, and VCU all hired in-house guys with no head coaching experience to be the hc. Many/all of those guys might still be assistants had they never got the job.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by ud2 What do you mean you can't say? As far as I can tell, Greer actually has less experience than any of Archie's guys, so if they weren't qualified, then neither is Greer. No, that doesn't prove that they weren't the right guy. Butler, Xavier, and VCU all hired in-house guys with no head coaching experience to be the hc. Many/all of those guys might still be assistants had they never got the job.

It's a ridiculous assertion. If they were worthy of an opportunity, after 6 years, they would have had one. That they haven't speaks volumes. Ostrom had been an assistant coach for 14 years when Archie left. Didn't really have a big career growth. Griffin, assistant coach for 11 years, bounced around a few places before 6 years at UD. No HC positions since leaving, wasn't named HC when Boeheim retired. Don't think I need to even talk about Kuwik.

As to Greer, he's been here 6 years, the big men that he coaches have shown improvement, he's a proven recruiter, and he's assistant head coach.

However, I never said Greer was qualified, though if there is an opening, he deserves an opportunity to interview for the position.

[CT Flyer]

I didn't realize until tonight that Ostrom is an assistant at Drake.

[Furio]

Archie was hired at rhody march of 2022.

Tom Ostrom was hired at Drake july of 2022.

So Archie passed on his former assistant at UD and IU.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by FLYER5 Let's call at least four plays that frees up Blakney for a three. Yeesh!

Where in the he!! did I mention Blakney? Project much?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 Where in the he!! did I mention Blakney? Project much? Posted via Mobile Device

LOL. Someone thinks "Well, that shut him up." 3 days later, T-Bone responds.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Furio Archie was hired at rhody march of 2022. Tom Ostrom was hired at Drake july of 2022. So Archie passed on his former assistant at UD and IU.

I am not sure that is what happened, but it could be, I have no idea.

Ostrom was apparently offered a job on Sean Miller's staff at Xavier, but he turned it down. So he was good enough for Xavier but not RI? That doesn't make sense IMO.

Perhaps Ostrom is more comfortable recruiting the Midwest, or perhaps he preferred living in the Midwest. His resume doesn't show any experience recruiting New England iinm. He was at Florida, South Alabama, Arkansas, Dayton, and Indiana before Drake.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by ud2 . . . First poll: 58% of the voters want Grant fired after next year if we miss the ncaat next year. Second poll: 40% of the voters want Grant fired right now. Based on those poll results, making Greer the next hc doesn't make any sense IMO.

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Was the poll limited to only people that wanted changes? I'm confused what makes it bogus.

What makes it bogus? This is what makes it bogus: "40% of the voters want Grant fired right now."
That's 23 posters on UD Pride. Your weight here is miniscule - quit acting like you have some kind of working majority.

___________________
A man sees what he wants to see, And disregards the rest.
Paul Simon - The Boxer

[ud2]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan It's a ridiculous assertion. If they were worthy of an opportunity, after 6 years, they would have had one. That they haven't speaks volumes. Ostrom had been an assistant coach for 14 years when Archie left. Didn't really have a big career growth. Griffin, assistant coach for 11 years, bounced around a few places before 6 years at UD. No HC positions since leaving, wasn't named HC when Boeheim retired. Don't think I need to even talk about Kuwik. As to Greer, he's been here 6 years, the big men that he coaches have shown improvement, he's a proven recruiter, and he's assistant head coach. However, I never said Greer was qualified, though if there is an opening, he deserves an opportunity to interview for the position.

Agree to disagree, I don't think it is a ridiculous assertion. Kuwik was mentioned for the Dartmouth job. Ostrom was mentioned for the NKU job.

There are only so many desirable jobs that open every year. There are literally hundreds of mid major or high major assistants. Just because these 3 guys in question didn't land a head coaching job yet, doesn't mean that they aren't capable of doing the job.

Out of the many UD assistants thru the years, how many have ever become a head coach after leaving UD or at UD? Hipsher, Jirsa, Jones, Smart, Donoher. Who else? Does that mean that all the others were junk? Of course not.

	Don Donoher DON DONOHER Legendary Flyer men's basketball coach who guided Dayton to 435 victories in 25 seasons (1964-1989) including the 1967 NCAA Runner-Up. Took over the program after the passing of Tom Blackburn and earned many NCAA and NIT bids over his career, including five Sweet-16s, one Elite Eight appearance, and the 1968 NIT Championship. Groomed All-Americans Don May and Jim Paxson, along with all-time leading scorer Roosevelt Chapman. Coached UD as they joined conference affiliation for the first time (Midwest Collegiate). A graduate of UD, Donoher played for Blackburn and credits much of his coaching success to his mentor's teachings: defense, ball protection, patience, and unselfishness.

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 Agree to disagree, I don't think it is a ridiculous assertion. Kuwik was mentioned for the Dartmouth job. Ostrom was mentioned for the NKU job. There are only so many desirable jobs that open every year. There are literally hundreds of mid major or high major assistants. Just because these 3 guys in question didn't land a head coaching job yet, doesn't mean that they aren't capable of doing the job. Out of the many UD assistants thru the years, how many have ever become a head coach after leaving UD or at UD? Hipsher, Jirsa, Jones, Smart, Donoher. Who else? Does that mean that all the others were junk? Of course not.

But is it possible that some can be good assistant coaches but not be head coach material?

[podcast411]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 If the team knew he wasn't coming back, (your #1), it wouldn't take a week to announce. The longer we go without an announcement, the less true I perceive this to be. I get that AG might take need some time to make such a decision but he also realizes that there is stuff to do and the next coach is disadvantaged by every day that goes by, especially if he were taking a role in the athletic department I can't imagine this wouldn't be confirmed by now. I have no idea if this is true or not, but I will just say that if it isn't true I don't think this would be the first time a group of fans started something on Twitter hoping it would gain momentum and become self fulfilling.

First - I hope AG is coming back and not going anywhere.

Second - If an announcement of him making a change was to come - it would not happen on days with Games in the Tourn going on. That means Mon to Wed next week would be when any announcement would be made - if one is coming.

If we make it to Thursday with no announcement from AG - then I think we are good to go with him coming back next season. Which again I hope is the case.

Fingers crossed there is no announcement early this coming week.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by podcast411 First - I hope AG is coming back and not going anywhere. Second - If an announcement of him making a change was to come - it would not happen on days with Games in the Tourn going on. That means Mon to Wed next week would be when any announcement would be made - if one is coming. If we make it to Thursday with no announcement from AG - then I think we are good to go with him coming back next season. Which again I hope is the case. Fingers crossed there is no announcement early this coming week.

Yeah, but couldn't they have made an announcement on Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday of this week? I suppose it doesn't matter yet, Chris Beard is the only big college ball name off the board.

Damon Stoudemire had 5 years as hc at Pacific with 0 ncaat or nit appearances. He was also an NBA assistant.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer But is it possible that some can be good assistant coaches but not be head coach material?

Yes.

Even if you widen this out to other schools, how many former assistants at any one school ever get to become a head coach?

There are way more assistants looking for a hc job than there are desirable hc jobs that open each year.

I think if you are at a winning program, you stand a much better chance of somebody being interested in you. Winning attracts attention. Everybody wanted Coach K's assistants at Duke....Villanova, Michigan State, etc. are the same way, everybody picks off the assistants at winning programs.

Everybody in the NFL is always stealing away the Patriots assistants.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Glen Clark What makes it bogus? This is what makes it bogus: "40% of the voters want Grant fired right now." That's 23 posters on UD Pride. Your weight here is miniscule - quit acting like you have some kind of working majority. ___________________ A man sees what he wants to see, And disregards the rest. Paul Simon - The Boxer

Haha okay Glen. Nothing you say makes the poll bogus. Is it a small sample size? Sure. But the results are the results.

[FLYER5]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 Where in the he!! did I mention Blakney? Project much? Posted via Mobile Device

Actually it wasn't a knock at you.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Flyers98 The day UD starts making coaching decisions based on fan polls is the day I find another team to follow.

Be careful. If the University releases any statement on AG's future (staying, moving up, or leaving), isn't that an indication of the impact of social media? OTG is literally full of this nonsense.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Haha okay Glen. Nothing you say makes the poll bogus. Is it a small sample size? Sure. But the results are the results.

Haha, they complained about Coffee's first poll because they didn't like the way it was worded, so they said it was a junk poll since the wording was bad and the poll didn't give them the results they wanted.

So, Coffee makes a second poll then with better wording, and now they are saying that second poll is also junk because they again didn't get the results they wanted.