UD skips the NIT - right or wrong?

[CoffeeCan]

What say you?

[hawkoooo]

Wrong. Truly embarrassing stuff.

[lhsgolf19]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Wrong. Truly embarrassing stuff.

Good Lord man, NIT is meaningless

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 Good Lord man, NIT is meaningless

It truly is. So by my count we've had 5 meaningless seasons under Anthony Grant out of 6.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 Good Lord man, NIT is meaningless

Cool. Doesn't make this any less pathetic. This reflects poorly on the program. Health of the team? Give me a break. What if we won today? Would we have forfeited for health reasons?

Extra practices, game experience for young players, a chance to keep the season alive, I could go on.

I was bashing UNC for this same decision!

[TX Flyer]

Ncaa or bust

[312to937]

Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 Good Lord man, NIT is meaningless

LOL! Not meaningless to YOU last year when you started game threads for the NIT games.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Buckeye]

It's bad, but your choices aren't complete. It's not about the NIT being prestigious or about the fans wanting more. It's about the team and not giving up. Not quitting. Not pouting. There are 13 players listed on the roster. If 3 or 4 can't play due to injury, play the others. What happened to next one up? It's a really poor message to send to the reserves and to the potential recruits.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by 312to937 LOL! Not meaningless to YOU last year when you started game threads for the NIT games. Posted via Mobile Device

Well played.

[lhsgolf19]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Cool. Doesn't make this any less pathetic. This reflects poorly on the program. Health of the team? Give me a break. What if we won today? Would we have forfeited for health reasons? Extra practices, game experience for young players, a chance to keep the season alive, I could go on. I was bashing UNC for this same decision!

We actually have legit excuses, what the heck does UNC have?

Man the trolls on UDPride are having a field day with us not going to the NIT.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by Buckeye It's bad, but your choices aren't complete. It's not about the NIT being prestigious or about the fans wanting more. It's about the team and not giving up. Not quitting. Not pouting. There are 13 players listed on the roster. If 3 or 4 can't play due to injury, play the others. What happened to next one up? It's a really poor message to send to the reserves and to the potential recruits.

Just pick one already

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by Buckeye It's bad, but your choices aren't complete. It's not about the NIT being prestigious or about the fans wanting more. It's about the team and not giving up. Not quitting. Not pouting. There are 13 players listed on the roster. If 3 or 4 can't play due to injury, play the others. What happened to next one up? It's a really poor message to send to the reserves and to the potential recruits.

Yea right I've seen the past rotations (if you want to call it that) and what remaining players were going to make that leap into relevancy .... please tell us!

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 We actually have legit excuses, what the heck does UNC have? Man the trolls on UDPride are having a field day with us not going to the NIT.

Please, name me your legit excuses. The health of the players that are all going to transfer?

They just played 34 games, but a few more is too much? I can't believe there are people defending this trash.

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 It truly is. So by my count we've had 5 meaningless seasons under Anthony Grant out of 6.

The reality of that comment sure hurts the current history lesson on UD BB.

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 Yea right I've seen the past rotations (if you want to call it that) and what remaining players were going to make that leap into relevancy .... please tell us!

Who said they would make the leap into relevancy? I said play the reserves. They deserve the chance to play. Why have them on the roster and make them abide by team rules if you're going to pull the rug on them? They put in as much practice time as the starters. Play them.

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan Just pick one already

I picked bad. Your reasons are poor. Whether the NIT is prestigious or not is irrelevant.

[lhsgolf19]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo Please, name me your legit excuses. The health of the players that are all going to transfer? They just played 34 games, but a few more is too much? I can't believe there are people defending this trash.

13 to 3 and growing, people think like me... NIT doesn't matter when the team is as banged up as it is.

[lhsgolf19]

Wait I actually read the poll better... some sweatervests on here think the NIT is a prestigious tournament? It's not 1970 anymore.... It's basically dying every year as we go on.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 13 to 3 and growing, people think like me... NIT doesn't matter when the team is as banged up as it is.

Thinking like you is not a compliment. Your only argument is to call me a troll. A word you don't even understand. Even if you did it wouldn't apply to me. I've been on this site since I enrolled in 2004. I dare you to find a more passionate Flyer.

You going to make an actual argument? Or just call me a troll again? Pointing to other numbskulls agreeing with your garbage take is not an argument.

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Who said they would make the leap into relevancy? I said play the reserves. They deserve the chance to play. Why have them on the roster and make them abide by team rules if you're going to pull the rug on them? They put in as much practice time as the starters. Play them.

Based on that logic AG should have sent them out in a few other games too. Say like Stl away, GW away, RI away, Bonnies away. You know cause they practice and run along with the same rules as all the other players ...

So you're saying we could of had a chance.

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 Based on that logic AG should have sent them out in a few other games too. Say like Stl away, GW away, RI away, Bonnies away. You know cause they practice and run along with the same rules as all the other players ... So you're saying we could of had a chance.

What the hell are you talking about? They should play the games, no matter who they play. What don't you understand about that?

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

[Ready Action]

Good decision by the captains and coaches. I take many of you will need to find something else to watch until the Reds epic fail of a season starts.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ruechalgrin]

Who cares? NCAA or best every year. I would be ok permanently declining all other Tournaments except for the NCAA.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin Who cares? NCAA or best every year. I would be ok permanently declining all other Tournaments except for the NCAA. Posted via Mobile Device

Do you mean early season tournaments as well?

[Flyerferd]

I’m not usually want to say, “told you so,” but, http://udpride.com/forums/showthread...474#post721474
Posted via Mobile Device

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Do you mean early season tournaments as well?

Congrats. The stupidest question ever asked. I don't know him and I don't read minds. But anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows he did not mean the holiday tournaments.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin Who cares? NCAA or best every year. I would be ok permanently declining all other Tournaments except for the NCAA. Posted via Mobile Device

If it's a young team I could see some value

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Congrats. The stupidest question ever asked. I don't know him and I don't read minds. But anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows he did not mean the holiday tournaments.

But what's the difference? You get to match up against P5 schools in places like Maui, The Bahamas, and Vegas. You don't think 18-20 year olds want to do that?

[OSU Flyer]

No other A10 teams made the NIT. Bad, bad year for the league

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Buckeye But what's the difference? You get to match up against P5 schools in places like Maui, The Bahamas, and Vegas. You don't think 18-20 year olds want to do that?

He said "NCAA or bust". Holiday tournaments are one of the most important paths to the NCAA tournament.

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 He said "NCAA or bust". Holiday tournaments are one of the most important paths to the NCAA tournament.

Sure, they're important, but they didn't get us in last year. But that's not what I wa saying. Playing in the NIT gets the same exposure to the same type teams AND is a reward for the players. It also give the players tournament experience. There isn't a lot of difference.

He also said "declining all other tournaments". What other tournaments are there if not holiday tournaments?

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Sure, they're important, but they didn't get us in last year. But that's not what I wa saying. Playing in the NIT gets the same exposure to the same type teams AND is a reward for the players. It also give the players tournament experience. There isn't a lot of difference. He also said "declining all other tournaments". What other tournaments are there if not holiday tournaments?

His words not mine but I agree with him. It's not about exposure, it's about being put in the tournament that pays well and gives you a chance at a national championship as slim as that might be. The NIT is a path to nowhere.

[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Sure, they're important, but they didn't get us in last year. But that's not what I wa saying. Playing in the NIT gets the same exposure to the same type teams AND is a reward for the players. It also give the players tournament experience. There isn't a lot of difference. He also said "declining all other tournaments". What other tournaments are there if not holiday tournaments?

Winning a NIT game doesn’t help your resume the following years selection sunday

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 His words not mine but I agree with him..

What does that mean? Are you now saying that maybe he meant all other tournaments? A minute ago, I didn't have any ounce of inteliigence.

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer Winning a NIT game doesn’t help your resume the following years selection sunday

I'd agree with that. But it does make your players better.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer Winning a NIT game doesn’t help your resume the following years selection sunday

Maybe, but it certainly won't hurt your resume either.

The NIT offers more exposure: a nationally-televised game against a good opponent. At the very least, UD could get some exposure with a potential recruit.

I don't care who is injured, do your best to cobble together a team and then play the darn games.

We aren't on North Carolina's level, we should not be turning down opportunities.

[FLYER5]

Ill refrain from casting what I feel would be an impulsive vote for me. I just don't think I have enough criteria to choose a side.

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by FLYER5 Ill refrain from casting what I feel would be an impulsive vote for me. I just don't think I have enough criteria to choose a side.

Relax, we are not voting on Ukraine.
Besides, I think the board has spoken pretty loudly on this one

[Flyerferd]

Originally Posted by ud2 Maybe, but it certainly won't hurt your resume either. The NIT offers more exposure: a nationally-televised game against a good opponent. At the very least, UD could get some exposure with a potential recruit. I don't care who is injured, do your best to cobble together a team and then play the darn games. We aren't on North Carolina's level, we should not be turning down opportunities.

You mean a “nationally-streamed game typically competing with the tournament that has much more exposure and money on it? Nah thanks. That’s not worth cobbling a team together for.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Buckeye What does that mean? Are you now saying that maybe he meant all other tournaments? A minute ago, I didn't have any ounce of inteliigence.

Holy cow. It means I agree with NCAA or bust. It means that I think the NIT is a waste. It means that mid-majors need the holiday tournament to pad their resume for an at-large bid to the NCAA tournament. It means like TX_Flyer said, the NIT tournament plays no part in getting your team to the NCAA tournament.

And yes, because you asked another ignorant question, the stupidity of your first question stands along with this one.

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Holy cow. It means I agree with NCAA or bust. It means that I think the NIT is a waste. It means that mid-majors need the holiday tournament to pad their resume for an at-large bid to the NCAA tournament. It means like TX_Flyer said, the NIT tournament plays no part in getting your team to the NCAA tournament. And yes, because you asked another ignorant question, the stupidity of your first question stands along with this one.

The name calling really shows your character.

He said "all other tournaments". What other tournaments are there other than holiday tournaments?

[UDEE79]

Originally Posted by Buckeye But what's the difference? You get to match up against P5 schools in places like Maui, The Bahamas, and Vegas. You don't think 18-20 year olds want to do that?

NIT is in Vegas now.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Buckeye I'd agree with that. But it does make your players better.

I have posted this before, but some?/all? years, Bobby Knight used to make his Indiana teams continue practicing until the last allowable day per the NCAA rules, which was the day of the national title game iinm, even if IU had already lost in the NCAAT or NIT.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Buckeye The name calling really shows your character. He said "all other tournaments". What other tournaments are there other than holiday tournaments?

Here's your answer to stupid question #3 https://dknation.draftkings.com/2023...san-jose-state

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Flyerferd You mean a “nationally-streamed game typically competing with the tournament that has much more exposure and money on it? Nah thanks. That’s not worth cobbling a team together for. Posted via Mobile Device

I would say that the vast majority of NIT games are on ESPN, ESPN2, or ESPNU. A small number are on ESPN3 streaming.

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Here's your answer to stupid question #3 https://dknation.draftkings.com/2023...san-jose-state

Cool. Thanks.

[FLYER5]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan Relax, we are not voting on Ukraine. Besides, I think the board has spoken pretty loudly on this one

Oh, I'm relaxed. I just don't have in front of me "the" reason. If it's in large part due to the players' wishes to forego the tourney, then that would weigh in my judgment. If the decision was made at the grassroots level of coach and player with health/injury being the deciding factor in foregoing a prospective invite, then that would weigh also. Like most here I'm leaning toward "bad". But I'd rather not make my initial feeling a knee-jerk reaction if it was in fact a vote by the team to forego for a credible reason which I'm not privy to. These "kids" know more than we do.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Cool. Thanks.

Now that that's settled. I'm going to tell you that I half way agree with you.

Personally I would prefer this team turn down the NIT every year. But if you are going to accept their invitation one year, you accept it all years. Not going because Elvis is out and Mike is hurt is BS. Last year they went with Mali and Weaver out and they didn't even have a Mike on their team. Pretty much the same team they have available this year except substitute Mali for Elvis which is better.

But what Anthony Grant has done was put his stamp on the fact that the NIT is not worth it. And if it's not worth it now, it's not worth it at any time.

But what I think is happening is he's got a team that can't wait to break up and go elsewhere. They played out their obligation and when given the opportunity to pass on playing any further, they jumped all over it.

There is going to be a mass exodus and whether AG stays which I think he will(and want him to sleep in the bed he made) or goes next year is going to be ugly.

[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by Buckeye I'd agree with that. But it does make your players better.

I don’t think an NIT game is going to make them any better, it’s not the third game of their careers.

Originally Posted by ud2 Maybe, but it certainly won't hurt your resume either. The NIT offers more exposure: a nationally-televised game against a good opponent. At the very least, UD could get some exposure with a potential recruit. I don't care who is injured, do your best to cobble together a team and then play the darn games. We aren't on North Carolina's level, we should not be turning down opportunities.

If they were good they wouldn’t be in the NIT

[pmcmullen]

I could care less if we ever played another NIT game again. This season in particular, let's just get on with the mass exodus, then we can spend the off-season hearing how great we will be next season.

[funeralplanner]

My gut feeling is, that AG is going to step down. This will give Neil more time to find a replacement. Just the feeling I got when I heard the interviews at the end of the game.

[UDGutter2]

Originally Posted by funeralplanner My gut feeling is, that AG is going to step down. This will give Neil more time to find a replacement. Just the feeling I got when I heard the interviews at the end of the game.

Would we look any farther than Greer?

[funeralplanner]

Originally Posted by UDGutter2 Would we look any farther than Greer?

I don't think so. Neil always has a short list ready every year. Maybe Greer is on that.

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer I don’t think an NIT game is going to make them any better, it’s not the third game of their careers.

No, but they were the youngest team in the country last year. They can use all of the tournament experience they can get.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by UDGutter2 Would we look any farther than Greer?

Originally Posted by funeralplanner I don't think so. Neil always has a short list ready every year. Maybe Greer is on that.

Yes, they need to look at outside options as well. It's not like Greer is a proven, can't miss candidate. Take a couple of swings at the big names out there, if there is no interest, then circle back to Greer.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Buckeye I'd agree with that. But it does make your players better.

Originally Posted by Buckeye No, but they were the youngest team in the country last year. They can use all of the tournament experience they can get.

They played 2 games in the NIT last year. I don't think it made them any better.

Also 70% of the the scholarship players on the roster have been in college 3 or more years. 1 or 2 more games isn't going to make a difference in their development.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 They played 2 games in the NIT last year. I don't think it made them any better. Also 70% of the the scholarship players on the roster have been in college 3 or more years. 1 or 2 more games isn't going to make a difference in their development.

And the walking wounded probably wouldn't play anyway.

[TXFlyerFan]

I don't care about the NIT, but I was pretty happy the year we won it against UNC. But as to playing this year, I'm happy to move on and let the off-season shuffling start.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by UD62 And the walking wounded probably wouldn't play anyway.

That’s the reason I think shutting it down was the right idea. Elvis is out, Mike is hurt, Mali’s far from 100%, and Blakney hasn’t been 100% for over a month now, which leaves Brea and Uhl as our only healthy backcourt players. At that point, after already playing 34 games, what’s the point of going on the road to play 1 or 2 more?
Posted via Mobile Device

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 That’s the reason I think shutting it down was the right idea. Elvis is out, Mike is hurt, Mali’s far from 100%, and Blakney hasn’t been 100% for over a month now, which leaves Brea and Uhl as our only healthy backcourt players. At that point, after already playing 34 games, what’s the point of going on the road to play 1 or 2 more? Posted via Mobile Device

Or - risking an injury to either TC or DH.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Yes, they need to look at outside options as well. It's not like Greer is a proven, can't miss candidate. Take a couple of swings at the big names out there, if there is no interest, then circle back to Greer.

I agree; IF and its a big if right now, AG is not coming back, maybe you approach someone like Pitino. If he turns you down, Greer brings at least some measure of continuity. Otherwise, its a complete rebuild

[pmcmullen]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 I agree; IF and its a big if right now, AG is not coming back, maybe you approach someone like Pitino. If he turns you down, Greer brings at least some measure of continuity. Otherwise, its a complete rebuild

The only pro I would see is Greer is exactly that - he has a relationship with the team and players, and seemingly a very good one going by every interview I've heard with any player where he's mentioned as a key recruiter. Maybe a mass exodus is less likely to happen?

Then again, do we really have the right players in place to make waves in the first place? I definitely view a couple positions, not just players, as being incredibly questionable on this team.

That aside, we just get to wait and see what happens at this point.

[TXFlyerFan]

Apart from Deuce if he comes back, every position on this team is wide open for talent, regardless of who returns. Even Deuce would be more effective playing 25-28 minutes per night instead of 36.

[The Gem]

I went with option #2. Mali and Kobe both need surgery. The best thing to do is get them under the knife as quickly as possible so the recovery can begin. With further injuries to Mike and RJ we just don't have much of a squad left. The players who are going to transfer can go ahead and transfer and the coaching staff can start recruiting new players.
The NIT has become meaningless. I hope the NCAA moves to eliminate it and just expand the NCAA and have lower seeded teams play in qualifying rounds.

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by funeralplanner My gut feeling is, that AG is going to step down. This will give Neil more time to find a replacement. Just the feeling I got when I heard the interviews at the end of the game.

I didn't listen to the post game. Can you elaborate?

[steve]

Originally Posted by pmcmullen The only pro I would see is Greer is exactly that - he has a relationship with the team and players, and seemingly a very good one going by every interview I've heard with any player where he's mentioned as a key recruiter. Maybe a mass exodus is less likely to happen? Then again, do we really have the right players in place to make waves in the first place? I definitely view a couple positions, not just players, as being incredibly questionable on this team. That aside, we just get to wait and see what happens at this point.

True but for all we know Greer will run a totally different offense. I can tell you that last year when Brea was playing really well the last half of the year they focused on getting him open and set screens and did not simply allow him to sit out 30 feet from the bucket as he did almost this entire year. A complete head-scratcher compared to this year.

Brea's last 18 games a season ago he averaged 9.5 ppg and shot 48% from 2 and over 48% from the 3.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Yes, they need to look at outside options as well. It's not like Greer is a proven, can't miss candidate. Take a couple of swings at the big names out there, if there is no interest, then circle back to Greer.

I am a hard no on Greer. If it is Greer or a complete rebuild, then do the complete rebuild.

[Kool-ade Flyer]

The biggest thing going top the NIT allows is for the coaches to have actual practices with the team. Today it is turn in equipment day and no more formal team activities. Would more practice time have helped with the future and growth???
Also, a college coach said a few years ago that getting invited to the NIT a small consolation until they won the first game then it became very meaningful and everyone was all in. (I think it was the Penn State coach the year they won the NIT??)

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by ud2 I am a hard no on Greer. If it is Greer or a complete rebuild, then do the complete rebuild.

What would Greer's philosophy be?

If it is running the most boring, low tempo offense then no thanks.
We have top athletes and we are playing at a snails pace.

When CAG was interviewed before the SJU game (or maybe it was halftime) he was asked about playing in an NBA arena and he made a remark about that he didnt know about all of that, he was not a shooter.

So sick of this 62-58 but but but but we have an elite defense bull****

The only year we were successful we ran and pushed it up the court - did not try to limit possessions.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

[TXFlyerFan]

Pretty sure everyone here was stoked the year we beat UNC for the NIT championship.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan What would Greer's philosophy be? If it is running the most boring, low tempo offense then no thanks. We have top athletes and we are playing at a snails pace. When CAG was interviewed before the SJU game (or maybe it was halftime) he was asked about playing in an NBA arena and he made a remark about that he didnt know about all of that, he was not a shooter. So sick of this 62-58 but but but but we have an elite defense bull**** The only year we were successful we ran and pushed it up the court - did not try to limit possessions.

Fair enough, I do not know what Greer's philosophy would be, but IMO the people pushing Greer sound just like the people that were pushing Billy Schmidt to replace BG when BG left. At least with Brannen, Brannen has a track record of having a different approach.

I say blow the whole thing up and start over. The time to hire an assistant was when Archie left, not when you have a 1/6 coach.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by ud2 I am a hard no on Greer. If it is Greer or a complete rebuild, then do the complete rebuild.

That a total 180 from the person that only wanted to consider AM assistants the last time around. What has changed for you this time? I agree, I would not be on board for Greer at first. I think they need to look at outside candidates. But if we do go the assistant route, at least he is one being mentioned for other jobs.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 That a total 180 from the person that only wanted to consider AM assistants the last time around. What has changed for you this time? I agree, I would not be on board for Greer at first. I think they need to look at outside candidates. But if we do go the assistant route, at least he is one being mentioned for other jobs.

I think the difference is obvious. Wanting to keep the continuity the success of 4 straight NCAA appearances vs the dumpster fire we see now. No matter what direction this team goes in, there's not going to be any continuity anyway. One of if not both Camara and Deuce will most likely be leaving either way. And many more also.

[marco red eagle]

Who ever the new coach is next year ... the program will be a complete make over ... requiring 3 years of mediocre teams ... so it is best to get a clean sweep ... we can't use 3 years of .500 teams with Greer as the leader.

Best to get a tested winning coach, since we are likely to struggle for the next 3 years.... with what new coach we have.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 That a total 180 from the person that only wanted to consider AM assistants the last time around. What has changed for you this time? I agree, I would not be on board for Greer at first. I think they need to look at outside candidates. But if we do go the assistant route, at least he is one being mentioned for other jobs.

Dude, come on, are you serious? Grant is 1/6, heck, 50-75%? of the people on here want him fired this year or next year if we aren't better next year. Why would we hire an unproven assistant for a 1/6 head coach?

You only hire an assistant when the program is doing well, like when Archie left.

The program is in the toilet right now.

[CT Flyer]

Can someone refresh my memory as to any recruits we have signed and coming in next year?

[ud2]

Originally Posted by marco red eagle Who ever the new coach is next year ... the program will be a complete make over ... requiring 3 years of mediocre teams ... so it is best to get a clean sweep ... we can't use 3 years of .500 teams with Greer as the leader. Best to get a tested winning coach, since we are likely to struggle for the next 3 years.... with what new coach we have.

Just not true, Archie's first team was rated better than BG's last team. We had 1 down year with Archie, his 2nd year. With the new transfer rules and NIL, turnarounds can happen quickly. See 2 seed Marquette in Shaka's 2nd year.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 I think the difference is obvious. Wanting to keep the continuity the success of 4 straight NCAA appearances vs the dumpster fire we see now. No matter what direction this team goes in, there's not going to be any continuity anyway. One of if not both Camara and Deuce will most likely be leaving either way. And many more also.

Originally Posted by ud2 Dude, come on, are you serious? Grant is 1/6, heck, 50-75%? of the people on here want him fired this year or next year if we aren't better next year. Why would we hire an unproven assistant for a 1/6 head coach? You only hire an assistant when the program is doing well, like when Archie left. The program is in the toilet right now.

At least for Greer, we know he has been getting looked at by other schools. Nobody on AM's staff was ever mentioned for other jobs.

Again, I am not disagreeing with you. I just asked why the change. We are on the same side of this one.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 At least for Greer, we know he has been getting looked at by other schools. Nobody on AM's staff was ever mentioned for other jobs. Again, I am not disagreeing with you. I just asked why the change. We are on the same side of this one.

Kuwik was mentioned for an Ivy League job. Griffin recently has been mentioned for some jobs, maybe Ostrom recently also, but at the time when Archie left, none were getting mentions.

But if we are going to play that game, then how many Butler or Xavier or VCU assistants, that eventually got the hc job at their school, were getting mentioned for hc jobs? None/few from what I recall.

Using lack of mentions as a reason to disqualify someone IMO seems specious.

Greer was mentioned for Bowling Green. Where else?

How about we trust Archie's judgment and recommendation that the guys on his staff were there for a reason and can do the job?

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[jack72]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer Can someone refresh my memory as to any recruits we have signed and coming in next year?

Only one and he is not a guard. A 6'6" small forward.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by ud2 Kuwik was mentioned for an Ivy League job. Griffin recently has been mentioned for some jobs, maybe Ostrom recently also, but at the time when Archie left, none were getting mentions. But if we are going to play that game, then how many Butler or Xavier or VCU assistants, that eventually got the hc job at their school, were getting mentioned for hc jobs? None/few from what I recall. Using lack of mentions as a reason to disqualify someone IMO seems specious. Greer was mentioned for Bowling Green. Where else? How about we trust Archie's judgment and recommendation that the guys on his staff were there for a reason and can do the job?

Trust Archie? Are you serious? I wouldn't trust Archie to take my dog out back for dump. AG may or may not resign (I don't see a firing) but if he does...

I'm fine with Greer because while AG picked him, I don't see him running AG's system; parts of it maybe. Most if not all the current players were recruited by him and he has NY connections. Some turnover would still be likely but I think he retains Holmes and Mike as well as a few others (unless DH goes pro). Yes, good and bad he had his hand in all of the starters and bench players. In this day of immediate satisfaction and NIL, everybody is a crapshoot.

If Greer isn't picked, why can't Dayton ever land a proven, highly successful coach at the college level (Pitino like)? (Apologies to the Ray Harper crowd)...

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by marco red eagle Who ever the new coach is next year ... the program will be a complete make over ... requiring 3 years of mediocre teams ... so it is best to get a clean sweep ... we can't use 3 years of .500 teams with Greer as the leader. Best to get a tested winning coach, since we are likely to struggle for the next 3 years.... with what new coach we have.

Nonsense. In the era of immediate eligibility, it should never take 3 years to build a program.

[marco red eagle]

"it should never take 3 years to build a program"

Then why are we here today as we are?

UD fans allow mediocre coaching ... allowing more than 3 years of not meeting expectations ... before the heat is on a coach.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by marco red eagle "it should never take 3 years to build a program" Then why are we here today as we are? UD fans allow mediocre coaching ... allowing more than 3 years of not meeting expectations ... before the heat is on a coach.

When AG took over, immediate eligibility was not a thing, so the expectations were that it would take some time to build his own program, recruiting connections, etc. You used the portal to augment your recruiting, not make it a primary filler. If you had to start over with a new coach, in the era of immediate eligibility, it shouldn't take that long, so expectations should change. I think we could have done a better job of using the portal, not holding scholarships, and not taking flyers on projects. We didn't do those things, so now here's where we are.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Trust Archie? Are you serious? I wouldn't trust Archie to take my dog out back for dump. AG may or may not resign (I don't see a firing) but if he does... I'm fine with Greer because while AG picked him, I don't see him running AG's system; parts of it maybe. Most if not all the current players were recruited by him and he has NY connections. Some turnover would still be likely but I think he retains Holmes and Mike as well as a few others (unless DH goes pro). Yes, good and bad he had his hand in all of the starters and bench players. In this day of immediate satisfaction and NIL, everybody is a crapshoot. If Greer isn't picked, why can't Dayton ever land a proven, highly successful coach at the college level (Pitino like)? (Apologies to the Ray Harper crowd)...

We have no idea what Greer would do, he could be a clone of AG.

I guess I'd prefer that we hire a successful low-major or mid-major head coach as I am not convinced that Neil has a good eye as far as picking a head coach goes.

Maybe an Oliver Purnell-type head coach.

Maybe bump up the UD hc pay in order to attract a better candidate.

[ud2]

I keep thinking of Travis Ford at SLU though. The above is exactly what SLU did. Iinm, Ford was/is the highest paid coach in the A10. They tried to take all the guesswork out if it and just hire a guy with a good track record. But it didn't work out so far.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 I keep thinking of Travis Ford at SLU though. The above is exactly what SLU did. Iinm, Ford was/is the highest paid coach in the A10. They tried to take all the guesswork out if it and just hire a guy with a good track record. But it didn't work out so far.

Great point showing there is no one best way to do this and certainly no guarantee. On paper there is no comparison between the success of the 2 coaches.
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[Marysville Flyer]

I was gonna pick option 3 but I didn’t want to bring down the average age of those picking option3 by 10 years.
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[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan I don't care about the NIT, but I was pretty happy the year we won it against UNC. But as to playing this year, I'm happy to move on and let the off-season shuffling start.

That NIT was special mainly for the fact that we got a chance to beat a blue-blood that looked more like a black and blue team. The tarheels were really bad that season, but it was the TarHeels so it was special. But how more ordinary would that tournament have felt if Rhode Island would've beat UNC in the semis(which they actually should've) and we had to play them a 3rd time for the NIT championship. Seems yawn worthy to me.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 That NIT was special mainly for the fact that we got a chance to beat a blue-blood that looked more like a black and blue team. The tarheels were really bad that season, but it was the TarHeels so it was special. But how more ordinary would that tournament have felt if Rhode Island would've beat UNC in the semis(which they actually should've) and we had to play them a 3rd time for the NIT championship. Seems yawn worthy to me.

Maybe, but I love watching my Flyers whenever they play, so I would have happily watched them play Rhody in a NIT Final.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 That NIT was special mainly for the fact that we got a chance to beat a blue-blood that looked more like a black and blue team. The tarheels were really bad that season, but it was the TarHeels so it was special. But how more ordinary would that tournament have felt if Rhode Island would've beat UNC in the semis(which they actually should've) and we had to play them a 3rd time for the NIT championship. Seems yawn worthy to me.

The refs jobbed RI...a NC player tripped a RI player on a breakaway? in the final minute?...refs didn't call it...critical play...RI player turned it over or something after getting tripped

[ud2]

I see that Torvik correctly picked 67 of the 68 teams. Had Rutgers in and Nevada out.

So many p5 teams with 11, 12, 13, or 14 losses getting in, that it doesn't surprise me when they get upset.

NCAA tournament all-session tickets for at least one site are $315 before any fees and handling charges. Sometimes the only way to get a ticket is to buy the all-session ticket.

Seems like for the last 10? years, I have seen quite a few empty seats at these ncaat games on tv. Some don't feel like dropping $350 just to get in the door.

I wonder how the all-electronic tickets are working out? Scalping on the street is probably entirely gone. Wonder if you can resell your tickets on the internet if you can't go or don't want to go?

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by ud2 The refs jobbed RI...a NC player tripped a RI player on a breakaway? in the final minute?...refs didn't call it...critical play...RI player turned it over or something after getting tripped

I remember something happening that made it look like the Refs wanted UNC in the championship. I worked around a bunch of statisticians from UNC and after watching that game, told them straight out that they have no chance against Dayton(don't usually stick my neck out like that for the team I root for). You could tell at that point that the Flyers were playing on a whole other level than everyone else in that tournament. When I said that they stood there almost in shock that someone could be that brazen to emphatically tell them they had no chance against little old Dayton.

Of course if we had free throw shooters like we do now instead of Chris Johnson, I might have had to eat those words.

[FlyingArrow]

It's not as prestigious, but I do think that winning the NIT is as hard as making the Sweet 16. It's against good but not great competition, but you only need 2 wins to make the Sweet 16. An NIT championship requires winning 5 games in a row against good (not great) teams.

I voted that I wanted to see them play more. That's not really the reason since I seldom get to watch games anyway and probably wouldn't see the NIT games. But I couldn't vote to say that the NIT is 'prestigious'. Nobody cares about it, so it's clearly not prestigious.

We have a team that can keep playing. If players are hurt, don't play them. If the walk-ons get considerable PT, the team probably loses terribly. But stranger things have happened. Even most of the walk-ons were stars on their high school teams, and the NIT teams have flaws by definition, so there's always a chance. If we sit everyone who's injured (and especially if players considering the pros sit out), then we likely lose in game 1, and possibly badly. But that's why they play the games.

Except this time they don't.

[ud2]

And I see that the ncaat games are back in North Carolina now. The one year recently the NCAA got ticked off at the NC state legislature due to a law? that the NC state legislature passed.

As retribution, the NCAA moved one or more of the ncaat sites to South Carolina iinm. Whatever the controversy was, it seems to have blown over.

[NorthwestFlyer]

This has been a sad year on the injuries, etc. I am one to give Grant a hall pass after what he has been through. I'm not sure he will be our coach next year. We should be standing behind him not kicking him. He knows we are all disappointed.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer If it's a young team I could see some value

Exactly! There was value in the NIT bid last year because, other than Mali, our players were generally healthy and (with the 2nd youngest team in D-I) it made sense to give them a chance to play a few more games together. This year, with 3/4 of our scholarship guards hurt (and RJ isn’t a guard, because he handles the ball worse than Morrison and Gorney, from my era), what’s the sense or the use?

The patient was on life support as it was. Let the doctor(s) pull the plug.
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[ud2]

We could still play:

5...Holmes
4...Camara
3...Blakney
2...Amzil
1...Mike

Brea, Zimi, Richard, Uhl...4 bench guys, that is enough. Play the other walk-ons if needed.

Leave at home due to injury: Elvis, Mali

Others: open scholarship, Baker transferred out, Washington transferred out

Or start Brea or Uhl.

[OSU Flyer]

It sounds like the coaches are already getting after it in portal recruiting. Two players they've reportedly made contact with today.

Three open scholarships with the possibility of more, I'd think their time is better spent recruiting

[ud2]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer It sounds like the coaches are already getting after it in portal recruiting. Two players they've reportedly made contact with today. Three open scholarships with the possibility of more, I'd think their time is better spent recruiting

You guys are acting like these coaches can't multi-task, recruiting never stops, how is this any different?