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View Poll Results: What do you think about UD declining a possible NIT bid?
Good. Enough is enough 32 28.32%
Good. The team is hurt, although they would have played in the NCAA if they won today 56 49.56%
Bad. The NIT is a prestigious tournament and this makes our program look bad 15 13.27%
Bad. I just want to watch this team some more 10 8.85%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 03-12-2023, 10:25 PM
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UD skips the NIT - right or wrong?

What say you?
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  #2  
Old 03-12-2023, 10:27 PM
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Wrong. Truly embarrassing stuff.
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  #3  
Old 03-12-2023, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Wrong. Truly embarrassing stuff.
Good Lord man, NIT is meaningless
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  #4  
Old 03-12-2023, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
Good Lord man, NIT is meaningless
It truly is. So by my count we've had 5 meaningless seasons under Anthony Grant out of 6.
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  #5  
Old 03-12-2023, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
Good Lord man, NIT is meaningless
Cool. Doesn't make this any less pathetic. This reflects poorly on the program. Health of the team? Give me a break. What if we won today? Would we have forfeited for health reasons?

Extra practices, game experience for young players, a chance to keep the season alive, I could go on.

I was bashing UNC for this same decision!
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  #6  
Old 03-12-2023, 10:34 PM
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Ncaa or bust
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  #7  
Old 03-12-2023, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
Good Lord man, NIT is meaningless
LOL! Not meaningless to YOU last year when you started game threads for the NIT games.
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  #8  
Old 03-12-2023, 10:37 PM
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It's bad, but your choices aren't complete. It's not about the NIT being prestigious or about the fans wanting more. It's about the team and not giving up. Not quitting. Not pouting. There are 13 players listed on the roster. If 3 or 4 can't play due to injury, play the others. What happened to next one up? It's a really poor message to send to the reserves and to the potential recruits.
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  #9  
Old 03-12-2023, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 312to937 View Post
LOL! Not meaningless to YOU last year when you started game threads for the NIT games.
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Well played.
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  #10  
Old 03-12-2023, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Cool. Doesn't make this any less pathetic. This reflects poorly on the program. Health of the team? Give me a break. What if we won today? Would we have forfeited for health reasons?

Extra practices, game experience for young players, a chance to keep the season alive, I could go on.

I was bashing UNC for this same decision!
We actually have legit excuses, what the heck does UNC have?

Man the trolls on UDPride are having a field day with us not going to the NIT.
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  #11  
Old 03-12-2023, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
It's bad, but your choices aren't complete. It's not about the NIT being prestigious or about the fans wanting more. It's about the team and not giving up. Not quitting. Not pouting. There are 13 players listed on the roster. If 3 or 4 can't play due to injury, play the others. What happened to next one up? It's a really poor message to send to the reserves and to the potential recruits.
Just pick one already
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Old 03-12-2023, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
It's bad, but your choices aren't complete. It's not about the NIT being prestigious or about the fans wanting more. It's about the team and not giving up. Not quitting. Not pouting. There are 13 players listed on the roster. If 3 or 4 can't play due to injury, play the others. What happened to next one up? It's a really poor message to send to the reserves and to the potential recruits.
Yea right I've seen the past rotations (if you want to call it that) and what remaining players were going to make that leap into relevancy .... please tell us!
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Old 03-12-2023, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
We actually have legit excuses, what the heck does UNC have?

Man the trolls on UDPride are having a field day with us not going to the NIT.
Please, name me your legit excuses. The health of the players that are all going to transfer?

They just played 34 games, but a few more is too much? I can't believe there are people defending this trash.
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Old 03-12-2023, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
It truly is. So by my count we've had 5 meaningless seasons under Anthony Grant out of 6.
The reality of that comment sure hurts the current history lesson on UD BB.
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Old 03-12-2023, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
Yea right I've seen the past rotations (if you want to call it that) and what remaining players were going to make that leap into relevancy .... please tell us!
Who said they would make the leap into relevancy? I said play the reserves. They deserve the chance to play. Why have them on the roster and make them abide by team rules if you're going to pull the rug on them? They put in as much practice time as the starters. Play them.

Last edited by Buckeye; 03-12-2023 at 10:48 PM..
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Old 03-12-2023, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
Just pick one already
I picked bad. Your reasons are poor. Whether the NIT is prestigious or not is irrelevant.
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  #17  
Old 03-12-2023, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Please, name me your legit excuses. The health of the players that are all going to transfer?

They just played 34 games, but a few more is too much? I can't believe there are people defending this trash.
13 to 3 and growing, people think like me... NIT doesn't matter when the team is as banged up as it is.
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  #18  
Old 03-12-2023, 10:50 PM
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Wait I actually read the poll better... some sweatervests on here think the NIT is a prestigious tournament? It's not 1970 anymore.... It's basically dying every year as we go on.
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  #19  
Old 03-12-2023, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
13 to 3 and growing, people think like me... NIT doesn't matter when the team is as banged up as it is.
Thinking like you is not a compliment. Your only argument is to call me a troll. A word you don't even understand. Even if you did it wouldn't apply to me. I've been on this site since I enrolled in 2004. I dare you to find a more passionate Flyer.

You going to make an actual argument? Or just call me a troll again? Pointing to other numbskulls agreeing with your garbage take is not an argument.
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Old 03-12-2023, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
Who said they would make the leap into relevancy? I said play the reserves. They deserve the chance to play. Why have them on the roster and make them abide by team rules if you're going to pull the rug on them? They put in as much practice time as the starters. Play them.
Based on that logic AG should have sent them out in a few other games too. Say like Stl away, GW away, RI away, Bonnies away. You know cause they practice and run along with the same rules as all the other players ...

So you're saying we could of had a chance.
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Old 03-12-2023, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
Based on that logic AG should have sent them out in a few other games too. Say like Stl away, GW away, RI away, Bonnies away. You know cause they practice and run along with the same rules as all the other players ...

So you're saying we could of had a chance.
What the hell are you talking about? They should play the games, no matter who they play. What don't you understand about that?
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  #22  
Old 03-12-2023, 10:57 PM
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Good decision by the captains and coaches. I take many of you will need to find something else to watch until the Reds epic fail of a season starts.
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  #23  
Old 03-12-2023, 10:58 PM
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Who cares? NCAA or best every year. I would be ok permanently declining all other Tournaments except for the NCAA.
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Who cares? NCAA or best every year. I would be ok permanently declining all other Tournaments except for the NCAA.
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Do you mean early season tournaments as well?
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  #25  
Old 03-12-2023, 11:11 PM
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Iím not usually want to say, ďtold you so,Ē but, http://udpride.com/forums/showthread...474#post721474
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
Do you mean early season tournaments as well?
Congrats. The stupidest question ever asked. I don't know him and I don't read minds. But anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows he did not mean the holiday tournaments.
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  #27  
Old 03-12-2023, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Who cares? NCAA or best every year. I would be ok permanently declining all other Tournaments except for the NCAA.
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If it's a young team I could see some value
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Congrats. The stupidest question ever asked. I don't know him and I don't read minds. But anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows he did not mean the holiday tournaments.
But what's the difference? You get to match up against P5 schools in places like Maui, The Bahamas, and Vegas. You don't think 18-20 year olds want to do that?
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:17 PM
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No other A10 teams made the NIT. Bad, bad year for the league
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
But what's the difference? You get to match up against P5 schools in places like Maui, The Bahamas, and Vegas. You don't think 18-20 year olds want to do that?
He said "NCAA or bust". Holiday tournaments are one of the most important paths to the NCAA tournament.
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
He said "NCAA or bust". Holiday tournaments are one of the most important paths to the NCAA tournament.
Sure, they're important, but they didn't get us in last year. But that's not what I wa saying. Playing in the NIT gets the same exposure to the same type teams AND is a reward for the players. It also give the players tournament experience. There isn't a lot of difference.

He also said "declining all other tournaments". What other tournaments are there if not holiday tournaments?
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
Sure, they're important, but they didn't get us in last year. But that's not what I wa saying. Playing in the NIT gets the same exposure to the same type teams AND is a reward for the players. It also give the players tournament experience. There isn't a lot of difference.

He also said "declining all other tournaments". What other tournaments are there if not holiday tournaments?
His words not mine but I agree with him. It's not about exposure, it's about being put in the tournament that pays well and gives you a chance at a national championship as slim as that might be. The NIT is a path to nowhere.
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
Sure, they're important, but they didn't get us in last year. But that's not what I wa saying. Playing in the NIT gets the same exposure to the same type teams AND is a reward for the players. It also give the players tournament experience. There isn't a lot of difference.

He also said "declining all other tournaments". What other tournaments are there if not holiday tournaments?
Winning a NIT game doesn’t help your resume the following years selection sunday
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
His words not mine but I agree with him..
What does that mean? Are you now saying that maybe he meant all other tournaments? A minute ago, I didn't have any ounce of inteliigence.
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
Winning a NIT game doesnít help your resume the following years selection sunday
I'd agree with that. But it does make your players better.
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
Winning a NIT game doesn’t help your resume the following years selection sunday
Maybe, but it certainly won't hurt your resume either.

The NIT offers more exposure: a nationally-televised game against a good opponent. At the very least, UD could get some exposure with a potential recruit.

I don't care who is injured, do your best to cobble together a team and then play the darn games.

We aren't on North Carolina's level, we should not be turning down opportunities.
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  #37  
Old 03-12-2023, 11:38 PM
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Ill refrain from casting what I feel would be an impulsive vote for me. I just don't think I have enough criteria to choose a side.
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5 View Post
Ill refrain from casting what I feel would be an impulsive vote for me. I just don't think I have enough criteria to choose a side.
Relax, we are not voting on Ukraine.
Besides, I think the board has spoken pretty loudly on this one
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Maybe, but it certainly won't hurt your resume either.

The NIT offers more exposure: a nationally-televised game against a good opponent. At the very least, UD could get some exposure with a potential recruit.

I don't care who is injured, do your best to cobble together a team and then play the darn games.

We aren't on North Carolina's level, we should not be turning down opportunities.

You mean a ďnationally-streamed game typically competing with the tournament that has much more exposure and money on it? Nah thanks. Thatís not worth cobbling a team together for.
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
What does that mean? Are you now saying that maybe he meant all other tournaments? A minute ago, I didn't have any ounce of inteliigence.
Holy cow. It means I agree with NCAA or bust. It means that I think the NIT is a waste. It means that mid-majors need the holiday tournament to pad their resume for an at-large bid to the NCAA tournament. It means like TX_Flyer said, the NIT tournament plays no part in getting your team to the NCAA tournament.

And yes, because you asked another ignorant question, the stupidity of your first question stands along with this one.
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Holy cow. It means I agree with NCAA or bust. It means that I think the NIT is a waste. It means that mid-majors need the holiday tournament to pad their resume for an at-large bid to the NCAA tournament. It means like TX_Flyer said, the NIT tournament plays no part in getting your team to the NCAA tournament.

And yes, because you asked another ignorant question, the stupidity of your first question stands along with this one.
The name calling really shows your character.

He said "all other tournaments". What other tournaments are there other than holiday tournaments?
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
But what's the difference? You get to match up against P5 schools in places like Maui, The Bahamas, and Vegas. You don't think 18-20 year olds want to do that?
NIT is in Vegas now.
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  #43  
Old 03-12-2023, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
I'd agree with that. But it does make your players better.
I have posted this before, but some?/all? years, Bobby Knight used to make his Indiana teams continue practicing until the last allowable day per the NCAA rules, which was the day of the national title game iinm, even if IU had already lost in the NCAAT or NIT.

Last edited by ud2; 03-13-2023 at 12:00 AM..
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
The name calling really shows your character.

He said "all other tournaments". What other tournaments are there other than holiday tournaments?
Here's your answer to stupid question #3 https://dknation.draftkings.com/2023...san-jose-state
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyerferd View Post
You mean a “nationally-streamed game typically competing with the tournament that has much more exposure and money on it? Nah thanks. That’s not worth cobbling a team together for.
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I would say that the vast majority of NIT games are on ESPN, ESPN2, or ESPNU. A small number are on ESPN3 streaming.
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Old 03-12-2023, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Here's your answer to stupid question #3 https://dknation.draftkings.com/2023...san-jose-state
Cool. Thanks.
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Old 03-13-2023, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
Relax, we are not voting on Ukraine.
Besides, I think the board has spoken pretty loudly on this one
Oh, I'm relaxed. I just don't have in front of me "the" reason. If it's in large part due to the players' wishes to forego the tourney, then that would weigh in my judgment. If the decision was made at the grassroots level of coach and player with health/injury being the deciding factor in foregoing a prospective invite, then that would weigh also. Like most here I'm leaning toward "bad". But I'd rather not make my initial feeling a knee-jerk reaction if it was in fact a vote by the team to forego for a credible reason which I'm not privy to. These "kids" know more than we do.
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  #48  
Old 03-13-2023, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
Cool. Thanks.
Now that that's settled. I'm going to tell you that I half way agree with you.

Personally I would prefer this team turn down the NIT every year. But if you are going to accept their invitation one year, you accept it all years. Not going because Elvis is out and Mike is hurt is BS. Last year they went with Mali and Weaver out and they didn't even have a Mike on their team. Pretty much the same team they have available this year except substitute Mali for Elvis which is better.

But what Anthony Grant has done was put his stamp on the fact that the NIT is not worth it. And if it's not worth it now, it's not worth it at any time.

But what I think is happening is he's got a team that can't wait to break up and go elsewhere. They played out their obligation and when given the opportunity to pass on playing any further, they jumped all over it.

There is going to be a mass exodus and whether AG stays which I think he will(and want him to sleep in the bed he made) or goes next year is going to be ugly.
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  #49  
Old 03-13-2023, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
I'd agree with that. But it does make your players better.
I donít think an NIT game is going to make them any better, itís not the third game of their careers.

Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Maybe, but it certainly won't hurt your resume either.

The NIT offers more exposure: a nationally-televised game against a good opponent. At the very least, UD could get some exposure with a potential recruit.

I don't care who is injured, do your best to cobble together a team and then play the darn games.

We aren't on North Carolina's level, we should not be turning down opportunities.
If they were good they wouldnít be in the NIT
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Old 03-13-2023, 01:20 AM
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I could care less if we ever played another NIT game again. This season in particular, let's just get on with the mass exodus, then we can spend the off-season hearing how great we will be next season.
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  #51  
Old 03-13-2023, 04:08 AM
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My gut feeling is, that AG is going to step down. This will give Neil more time to find a replacement. Just the feeling I got when I heard the interviews at the end of the game.
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Old 03-13-2023, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by funeralplanner View Post
My gut feeling is, that AG is going to step down. This will give Neil more time to find a replacement. Just the feeling I got when I heard the interviews at the end of the game.
Would we look any farther than Greer?
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Old 03-13-2023, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
Would we look any farther than Greer?
I don't think so. Neil always has a short list ready every year. Maybe Greer is on that.
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Old 03-13-2023, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
I donít think an NIT game is going to make them any better, itís not the third game of their careers.
No, but they were the youngest team in the country last year. They can use all of the tournament experience they can get.
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  #55  
Old 03-13-2023, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
Would we look any farther than Greer?
Originally Posted by funeralplanner View Post
I don't think so. Neil always has a short list ready every year. Maybe Greer is on that.
Yes, they need to look at outside options as well. It's not like Greer is a proven, can't miss candidate. Take a couple of swings at the big names out there, if there is no interest, then circle back to Greer.
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Old 03-13-2023, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
I'd agree with that. But it does make your players better.
Originally Posted by Buckeye View Post
No, but they were the youngest team in the country last year. They can use all of the tournament experience they can get.
They played 2 games in the NIT last year. I don't think it made them any better.

Also 70% of the the scholarship players on the roster have been in college 3 or more years. 1 or 2 more games isn't going to make a difference in their development.
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  #57  
Old 03-13-2023, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
They played 2 games in the NIT last year. I don't think it made them any better.

Also 70% of the the scholarship players on the roster have been in college 3 or more years. 1 or 2 more games isn't going to make a difference in their development.
And the walking wounded probably wouldn't play anyway.
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Old 03-13-2023, 09:00 AM
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I don't care about the NIT, but I was pretty happy the year we won it against UNC. But as to playing this year, I'm happy to move on and let the off-season shuffling start.
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  #59  
Old 03-13-2023, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
And the walking wounded probably wouldn't play anyway.
Thatís the reason I think shutting it down was the right idea. Elvis is out, Mike is hurt, Maliís far from 100%, and Blakney hasnít been 100% for over a month now, which leaves Brea and Uhl as our only healthy backcourt players. At that point, after already playing 34 games, whatís the point of going on the road to play 1 or 2 more?
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Old 03-13-2023, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Thatís the reason I think shutting it down was the right idea. Elvis is out, Mike is hurt, Maliís far from 100%, and Blakney hasnít been 100% for over a month now, which leaves Brea and Uhl as our only healthy backcourt players. At that point, after already playing 34 games, whatís the point of going on the road to play 1 or 2 more?
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Or - risking an injury to either TC or DH.
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Old 03-13-2023, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Yes, they need to look at outside options as well. It's not like Greer is a proven, can't miss candidate. Take a couple of swings at the big names out there, if there is no interest, then circle back to Greer.
I agree; IF and its a big if right now, AG is not coming back, maybe you approach someone like Pitino. If he turns you down, Greer brings at least some measure of continuity. Otherwise, its a complete rebuild
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Old 03-13-2023, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
I agree; IF and its a big if right now, AG is not coming back, maybe you approach someone like Pitino. If he turns you down, Greer brings at least some measure of continuity. Otherwise, its a complete rebuild
The only pro I would see is Greer is exactly that - he has a relationship with the team and players, and seemingly a very good one going by every interview I've heard with any player where he's mentioned as a key recruiter. Maybe a mass exodus is less likely to happen?

Then again, do we really have the right players in place to make waves in the first place? I definitely view a couple positions, not just players, as being incredibly questionable on this team.

That aside, we just get to wait and see what happens at this point.
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Old 03-13-2023, 10:57 AM
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Apart from Deuce if he comes back, every position on this team is wide open for talent, regardless of who returns. Even Deuce would be more effective playing 25-28 minutes per night instead of 36.
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Old 03-13-2023, 11:03 AM
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I went with option #2. Mali and Kobe both need surgery. The best thing to do is get them under the knife as quickly as possible so the recovery can begin. With further injuries to Mike and RJ we just don't have much of a squad left. The players who are going to transfer can go ahead and transfer and the coaching staff can start recruiting new players.
The NIT has become meaningless. I hope the NCAA moves to eliminate it and just expand the NCAA and have lower seeded teams play in qualifying rounds.
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Old 03-13-2023, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by funeralplanner View Post
My gut feeling is, that AG is going to step down. This will give Neil more time to find a replacement. Just the feeling I got when I heard the interviews at the end of the game.
I didn't listen to the post game. Can you elaborate?
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Old 03-13-2023, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen View Post
The only pro I would see is Greer is exactly that - he has a relationship with the team and players, and seemingly a very good one going by every interview I've heard with any player where he's mentioned as a key recruiter. Maybe a mass exodus is less likely to happen?

Then again, do we really have the right players in place to make waves in the first place? I definitely view a couple positions, not just players, as being incredibly questionable on this team.

That aside, we just get to wait and see what happens at this point.
True but for all we know Greer will run a totally different offense. I can tell you that last year when Brea was playing really well the last half of the year they focused on getting him open and set screens and did not simply allow him to sit out 30 feet from the bucket as he did almost this entire year. A complete head-scratcher compared to this year.

Brea's last 18 games a season ago he averaged 9.5 ppg and shot 48% from 2 and over 48% from the 3.
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Old 03-13-2023, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
Yes, they need to look at outside options as well. It's not like Greer is a proven, can't miss candidate. Take a couple of swings at the big names out there, if there is no interest, then circle back to Greer.
I am a hard no on Greer. If it is Greer or a complete rebuild, then do the complete rebuild.
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Old 03-13-2023, 12:36 PM
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The biggest thing going top the NIT allows is for the coaches to have actual practices with the team. Today it is turn in equipment day and no more formal team activities. Would more practice time have helped with the future and growth???
Also, a college coach said a few years ago that getting invited to the NIT a small consolation until they won the first game then it became very meaningful and everyone was all in. (I think it was the Penn State coach the year they won the NIT??)
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Old 03-13-2023, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I am a hard no on Greer. If it is Greer or a complete rebuild, then do the complete rebuild.
What would Greer's philosophy be?

If it is running the most boring, low tempo offense then no thanks.
We have top athletes and we are playing at a snails pace.

When CAG was interviewed before the SJU game (or maybe it was halftime) he was asked about playing in an NBA arena and he made a remark about that he didnt know about all of that, he was not a shooter.

So sick of this 62-58 but but but but we have an elite defense bull****

The only year we were successful we ran and pushed it up the court - did not try to limit possessions.
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Old 03-13-2023, 12:49 PM
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Pretty sure everyone here was stoked the year we beat UNC for the NIT championship.
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Old 03-13-2023, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
What would Greer's philosophy be?

If it is running the most boring, low tempo offense then no thanks.
We have top athletes and we are playing at a snails pace.

When CAG was interviewed before the SJU game (or maybe it was halftime) he was asked about playing in an NBA arena and he made a remark about that he didnt know about all of that, he was not a shooter.

So sick of this 62-58 but but but but we have an elite defense bull****

The only year we were successful we ran and pushed it up the court - did not try to limit possessions.
Fair enough, I do not know what Greer's philosophy would be, but IMO the people pushing Greer sound just like the people that were pushing Billy Schmidt to replace BG when BG left. At least with Brannen, Brannen has a track record of having a different approach.

I say blow the whole thing up and start over. The time to hire an assistant was when Archie left, not when you have a 1/6 coach.
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Old 03-13-2023, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I am a hard no on Greer. If it is Greer or a complete rebuild, then do the complete rebuild.
That a total 180 from the person that only wanted to consider AM assistants the last time around. What has changed for you this time? I agree, I would not be on board for Greer at first. I think they need to look at outside candidates. But if we do go the assistant route, at least he is one being mentioned for other jobs.
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Old 03-13-2023, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
That a total 180 from the person that only wanted to consider AM assistants the last time around. What has changed for you this time? I agree, I would not be on board for Greer at first. I think they need to look at outside candidates. But if we do go the assistant route, at least he is one being mentioned for other jobs.
I think the difference is obvious. Wanting to keep the continuity the success of 4 straight NCAA appearances vs the dumpster fire we see now. No matter what direction this team goes in, there's not going to be any continuity anyway. One of if not both Camara and Deuce will most likely be leaving either way. And many more also.
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Old 03-13-2023, 01:07 PM
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Who ever the new coach is next year ... the program will be a complete make over ... requiring 3 years of mediocre teams ... so it is best to get a clean sweep ... we can't use 3 years of .500 teams with Greer as the leader.

Best to get a tested winning coach, since we are likely to struggle for the next 3 years.... with what new coach we have.
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Old 03-13-2023, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
That a total 180 from the person that only wanted to consider AM assistants the last time around. What has changed for you this time? I agree, I would not be on board for Greer at first. I think they need to look at outside candidates. But if we do go the assistant route, at least he is one being mentioned for other jobs.
Dude, come on, are you serious? Grant is 1/6, heck, 50-75%? of the people on here want him fired this year or next year if we aren't better next year. Why would we hire an unproven assistant for a 1/6 head coach?

You only hire an assistant when the program is doing well, like when Archie left.

The program is in the toilet right now.
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Old 03-13-2023, 01:21 PM
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Can someone refresh my memory as to any recruits we have signed and coming in next year?
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Old 03-13-2023, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by marco red eagle View Post
Who ever the new coach is next year ... the program will be a complete make over ... requiring 3 years of mediocre teams ... so it is best to get a clean sweep ... we can't use 3 years of .500 teams with Greer as the leader.

Best to get a tested winning coach, since we are likely to struggle for the next 3 years.... with what new coach we have.
Just not true, Archie's first team was rated better than BG's last team. We had 1 down year with Archie, his 2nd year. With the new transfer rules and NIL, turnarounds can happen quickly. See 2 seed Marquette in Shaka's 2nd year.

Last edited by ud2; 03-13-2023 at 01:39 PM..
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Old 03-13-2023, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I think the difference is obvious. Wanting to keep the continuity the success of 4 straight NCAA appearances vs the dumpster fire we see now. No matter what direction this team goes in, there's not going to be any continuity anyway. One of if not both Camara and Deuce will most likely be leaving either way. And many more also.
Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Dude, come on, are you serious? Grant is 1/6, heck, 50-75%? of the people on here want him fired this year or next year if we aren't better next year. Why would we hire an unproven assistant for a 1/6 head coach?

You only hire an assistant when the program is doing well, like when Archie left.

The program is in the toilet right now.
At least for Greer, we know he has been getting looked at by other schools. Nobody on AM's staff was ever mentioned for other jobs.

Again, I am not disagreeing with you. I just asked why the change. We are on the same side of this one.
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Old 03-13-2023, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
At least for Greer, we know he has been getting looked at by other schools. Nobody on AM's staff was ever mentioned for other jobs.

Again, I am not disagreeing with you. I just asked why the change. We are on the same side of this one.
Kuwik was mentioned for an Ivy League job. Griffin recently has been mentioned for some jobs, maybe Ostrom recently also, but at the time when Archie left, none were getting mentions.

But if we are going to play that game, then how many Butler or Xavier or VCU assistants, that eventually got the hc job at their school, were getting mentioned for hc jobs? None/few from what I recall.

Using lack of mentions as a reason to disqualify someone IMO seems specious.

Greer was mentioned for Bowling Green. Where else?

How about we trust Archie's judgment and recommendation that the guys on his staff were there for a reason and can do the job?

Last edited by ud2; 03-13-2023 at 01:37 PM..
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Old 03-13-2023, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Can someone refresh my memory as to any recruits we have signed and coming in next year?
Only one and he is not a guard. A 6'6" small forward.
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Old 03-13-2023, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Kuwik was mentioned for an Ivy League job. Griffin recently has been mentioned for some jobs, maybe Ostrom recently also, but at the time when Archie left, none were getting mentions.

But if we are going to play that game, then how many Butler or Xavier or VCU assistants, that eventually got the hc job at their school, were getting mentioned for hc jobs? None/few from what I recall.

Using lack of mentions as a reason to disqualify someone IMO seems specious.

Greer was mentioned for Bowling Green. Where else?

How about we trust Archie's judgment and recommendation that the guys on his staff were there for a reason and can do the job?
Trust Archie? Are you serious? I wouldn't trust Archie to take my dog out back for dump. AG may or may not resign (I don't see a firing) but if he does...

I'm fine with Greer because while AG picked him, I don't see him running AG's system; parts of it maybe. Most if not all the current players were recruited by him and he has NY connections. Some turnover would still be likely but I think he retains Holmes and Mike as well as a few others (unless DH goes pro). Yes, good and bad he had his hand in all of the starters and bench players. In this day of immediate satisfaction and NIL, everybody is a crapshoot.

If Greer isn't picked, why can't Dayton ever land a proven, highly successful coach at the college level (Pitino like)? (Apologies to the Ray Harper crowd)...
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Old 03-13-2023, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by marco red eagle View Post
Who ever the new coach is next year ... the program will be a complete make over ... requiring 3 years of mediocre teams ... so it is best to get a clean sweep ... we can't use 3 years of .500 teams with Greer as the leader.

Best to get a tested winning coach, since we are likely to struggle for the next 3 years.... with what new coach we have.
Nonsense. In the era of immediate eligibility, it should never take 3 years to build a program.
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  #83  
Old 03-13-2023, 02:11 PM
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"it should never take 3 years to build a program"

Then why are we here today as we are?

UD fans allow mediocre coaching ... allowing more than 3 years of not meeting expectations ... before the heat is on a coach.
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Old 03-13-2023, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by marco red eagle View Post
"it should never take 3 years to build a program"

Then why are we here today as we are?

UD fans allow mediocre coaching ... allowing more than 3 years of not meeting expectations ... before the heat is on a coach.
When AG took over, immediate eligibility was not a thing, so the expectations were that it would take some time to build his own program, recruiting connections, etc. You used the portal to augment your recruiting, not make it a primary filler. If you had to start over with a new coach, in the era of immediate eligibility, it shouldn't take that long, so expectations should change. I think we could have done a better job of using the portal, not holding scholarships, and not taking flyers on projects. We didn't do those things, so now here's where we are.
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Old 03-13-2023, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Trust Archie? Are you serious? I wouldn't trust Archie to take my dog out back for dump. AG may or may not resign (I don't see a firing) but if he does...

I'm fine with Greer because while AG picked him, I don't see him running AG's system; parts of it maybe. Most if not all the current players were recruited by him and he has NY connections. Some turnover would still be likely but I think he retains Holmes and Mike as well as a few others (unless DH goes pro). Yes, good and bad he had his hand in all of the starters and bench players. In this day of immediate satisfaction and NIL, everybody is a crapshoot.

If Greer isn't picked, why can't Dayton ever land a proven, highly successful coach at the college level (Pitino like)? (Apologies to the Ray Harper crowd)...
We have no idea what Greer would do, he could be a clone of AG.

I guess I'd prefer that we hire a successful low-major or mid-major head coach as I am not convinced that Neil has a good eye as far as picking a head coach goes.

Maybe an Oliver Purnell-type head coach.

Maybe bump up the UD hc pay in order to attract a better candidate.

Last edited by ud2; 03-13-2023 at 03:53 PM..
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Old 03-13-2023, 03:59 PM
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I keep thinking of Travis Ford at SLU though. The above is exactly what SLU did. Iinm, Ford was/is the highest paid coach in the A10. They tried to take all the guesswork out if it and just hire a guy with a good track record. But it didn't work out so far.
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Old 03-13-2023, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I keep thinking of Travis Ford at SLU though. The above is exactly what SLU did. Iinm, Ford was/is the highest paid coach in the A10. They tried to take all the guesswork out if it and just hire a guy with a good track record. But it didn't work out so far.
Great point showing there is no one best way to do this and certainly no guarantee. On paper there is no comparison between the success of the 2 coaches.
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Old 03-13-2023, 04:08 PM
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I was gonna pick option 3 but I didnít want to bring down the average age of those picking option3 by 10 years.
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Old 03-13-2023, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
I don't care about the NIT, but I was pretty happy the year we won it against UNC. But as to playing this year, I'm happy to move on and let the off-season shuffling start.
That NIT was special mainly for the fact that we got a chance to beat a blue-blood that looked more like a black and blue team. The tarheels were really bad that season, but it was the TarHeels so it was special. But how more ordinary would that tournament have felt if Rhode Island would've beat UNC in the semis(which they actually should've) and we had to play them a 3rd time for the NIT championship. Seems yawn worthy to me.
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Old 03-13-2023, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
That NIT was special mainly for the fact that we got a chance to beat a blue-blood that looked more like a black and blue team. The tarheels were really bad that season, but it was the TarHeels so it was special. But how more ordinary would that tournament have felt if Rhode Island would've beat UNC in the semis(which they actually should've) and we had to play them a 3rd time for the NIT championship. Seems yawn worthy to me.
Maybe, but I love watching my Flyers whenever they play, so I would have happily watched them play Rhody in a NIT Final.
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Old 03-13-2023, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
That NIT was special mainly for the fact that we got a chance to beat a blue-blood that looked more like a black and blue team. The tarheels were really bad that season, but it was the TarHeels so it was special. But how more ordinary would that tournament have felt if Rhode Island would've beat UNC in the semis(which they actually should've) and we had to play them a 3rd time for the NIT championship. Seems yawn worthy to me.
The refs jobbed RI...a NC player tripped a RI player on a breakaway? in the final minute?...refs didn't call it...critical play...RI player turned it over or something after getting tripped
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Old 03-13-2023, 05:55 PM
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I see that Torvik correctly picked 67 of the 68 teams. Had Rutgers in and Nevada out.

So many p5 teams with 11, 12, 13, or 14 losses getting in, that it doesn't surprise me when they get upset.

NCAA tournament all-session tickets for at least one site are $315 before any fees and handling charges. Sometimes the only way to get a ticket is to buy the all-session ticket.

Seems like for the last 10? years, I have seen quite a few empty seats at these ncaat games on tv. Some don't feel like dropping $350 just to get in the door.

I wonder how the all-electronic tickets are working out? Scalping on the street is probably entirely gone. Wonder if you can resell your tickets on the internet if you can't go or don't want to go?

Last edited by ud2; 03-13-2023 at 05:58 PM..
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Old 03-13-2023, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
The refs jobbed RI...a NC player tripped a RI player on a breakaway? in the final minute?...refs didn't call it...critical play...RI player turned it over or something after getting tripped
I remember something happening that made it look like the Refs wanted UNC in the championship. I worked around a bunch of statisticians from UNC and after watching that game, told them straight out that they have no chance against Dayton(don't usually stick my neck out like that for the team I root for). You could tell at that point that the Flyers were playing on a whole other level than everyone else in that tournament. When I said that they stood there almost in shock that someone could be that brazen to emphatically tell them they had no chance against little old Dayton.

Of course if we had free throw shooters like we do now instead of Chris Johnson, I might have had to eat those words.
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Old 03-13-2023, 06:20 PM
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It's not as prestigious, but I do think that winning the NIT is as hard as making the Sweet 16. It's against good but not great competition, but you only need 2 wins to make the Sweet 16. An NIT championship requires winning 5 games in a row against good (not great) teams.

I voted that I wanted to see them play more. That's not really the reason since I seldom get to watch games anyway and probably wouldn't see the NIT games. But I couldn't vote to say that the NIT is 'prestigious'. Nobody cares about it, so it's clearly not prestigious.

We have a team that can keep playing. If players are hurt, don't play them. If the walk-ons get considerable PT, the team probably loses terribly. But stranger things have happened. Even most of the walk-ons were stars on their high school teams, and the NIT teams have flaws by definition, so there's always a chance. If we sit everyone who's injured (and especially if players considering the pros sit out), then we likely lose in game 1, and possibly badly. But that's why they play the games.

Except this time they don't.
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Old 03-13-2023, 07:07 PM
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And I see that the ncaat games are back in North Carolina now. The one year recently the NCAA got ticked off at the NC state legislature due to a law? that the NC state legislature passed.

As retribution, the NCAA moved one or more of the ncaat sites to South Carolina iinm. Whatever the controversy was, it seems to have blown over.
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Old 03-13-2023, 07:13 PM
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This has been a sad year on the injuries, etc. I am one to give Grant a hall pass after what he has been through. I'm not sure he will be our coach next year. We should be standing behind him not kicking him. He knows we are all disappointed.
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Old 03-13-2023, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
If it's a young team I could see some value
Exactly! There was value in the NIT bid last year because, other than Mali, our players were generally healthy and (with the 2nd youngest team in D-I) it made sense to give them a chance to play a few more games together. This year, with 3/4 of our scholarship guards hurt (and RJ isnít a guard, because he handles the ball worse than Morrison and Gorney, from my era), whatís the sense or the use?

The patient was on life support as it was. Let the doctor(s) pull the plug.
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Old 03-13-2023, 08:00 PM
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We could still play:

5...Holmes
4...Camara
3...Blakney
2...Amzil
1...Mike

Brea, Zimi, Richard, Uhl...4 bench guys, that is enough. Play the other walk-ons if needed.

Leave at home due to injury: Elvis, Mali

Others: open scholarship, Baker transferred out, Washington transferred out

Or start Brea or Uhl.

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Old 03-13-2023, 08:29 PM
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It sounds like the coaches are already getting after it in portal recruiting. Two players they've reportedly made contact with today.

Three open scholarships with the possibility of more, I'd think their time is better spent recruiting
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Old 03-13-2023, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
It sounds like the coaches are already getting after it in portal recruiting. Two players they've reportedly made contact with today.

Three open scholarships with the possibility of more, I'd think their time is better spent recruiting
You guys are acting like these coaches can't multi-task, recruiting never stops, how is this any different?
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