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02-22-2019, 04:34 PM
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Did the Butler do it? (see what I did there ?)
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02-22-2019, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
People can say Archie got lucky (he probably did) but the real feat was getting Dayton in that position
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Well, his luck had run out with the group he left when he got out of Dodge to go to Indiana . . .
I cannot understand why he is so hero worshiped. . . .he left a mess and AG did a great job cleaning it up. Yes, he made it to the Dance several years in a row, but not without some carnage left behind . . .like Dumb and Dumber.
He wouldn't have been in the Dance last year and probably not this year. He can't compete with AG's talents to recruit. We would still be cheering for Svoboda and holding our breath every time the pg took the ball downcourt.
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02-22-2019, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by GoFlyer
Well, his luck had run out with the group he left when he got out of Dodge to go to Indiana . . .
I cannot understand why he is so hero worshiped. . . .he left a mess and AG did a great job cleaning it up. Yes, he made it to the Dance several years in a row, but not without some carnage left behind . . .like Dumb and Dumber.
He wouldn't have been in the Dance last year and probably not this year. He can't compete with AG's talents to recruit. We would still be cheering for Svoboda and holding our breath every time the pg took the ball downcourt.
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I agree with you that Archie left a bit of a mess in terms of a bare cupboard, and his last recruiting class was mostly subpar. But in fairness, we’d have had McKinkey Wright taking the ball downcourt. I don’t think he would have had us holding our breath.
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02-22-2019, 04:54 PM
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General
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Archie is the past. He by any objective standards did a great job. I realize people are still angry he left but that doesn't diminish what he did
Anthony Grant is the present and future
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02-22-2019, 04:58 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Archie is the past. He by any objective standards did a great job. I realize people are still angry he left but that doesn't diminish what he did
Anthony Grant is the present and future
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Amen and I will add, any comparisons of what Archie would or would not have done last year or this year is pointless because the personnel would have been different.
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02-22-2019, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by GoFlyer
Well, his luck had run out with the group he left when he got out of Dodge to go to Indiana . . .
I cannot understand why he is so hero worshiped. . . .he left a mess and AG did a great job cleaning it up. Yes, he made it to the Dance several years in a row, but not without some carnage left behind . . .like Dumb and Dumber.
He wouldn't have been in the Dance last year and probably not this year. He can't compete with AG's talents to recruit. We would still be cheering for Svoboda and holding our breath every time the pg took the ball downcourt.
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I agree that success in the tourney does involve SOME luck, but the better team typically prevails (not necessarily the better seed). But Archie got the team, for 4 years in a row, to the right platform and opportunity to garner some luck. 4 years in a row in the dance with plenty of success in two of those years (and not the 2 years we were the better seed) is a tremendous accomplishment for our program. It's really unparalleled in the modern age of UD basketball.
He should be worshipped for what he accomplished and it's fair to question "what he left behind" as far as the cupboard. I don't think him taking the IU job had much to do with what the UD stable looked like. I don't think he would have left for too many other jobs, probably tOSU job had Indiana not kicked out Crean. So we were probably toast regardless. And the timing of the tOSU opening would have really rocked our world. We may have hired within had that happened.
I think Archie would have made some assessments and adjustments with last year's team and into this year. McKinley Wright would be manning the ship, and he's proven to be a really good ball player for Colorado from the day he got there.
I believe CAG is a better recruiter, in the limited comparison we have so far. I believe CAG may be a better leader of the program, probably a better builder of long term culture and foundation and with continued success, probably has a higher probability to stay at UD for much longer than others who've been targeted by the bigger boys. Archie may be a better X's and O's guy than CAG, or perhaps his staff was good at that, but CAG has shown me some things this year that give me plenty of optimism. I'd rate it a push or maybe even advantage CAG if he could come up with better/more consistent success/execution of half court offense when we're nursing or milking a lead. Maybe that changes with more options next year. Perhaps Archie had more guys that could create on their own (certainly in his last 2 years) and that gave him more options in those scenarios.
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02-22-2019, 06:21 PM
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CAG
Recruiting A-
Motivation B (short-handed hurts)
Floor General B- (coaches half a game nicely)
Overall: B
Excellent recruiting will impact floor skill and motivation.
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02-22-2019, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER
I think Archie would have made some assessments and adjustments with last year's team and into this year. McKinley Wright would be manning the ship, and he's proven to be a really good ball player for Colorado from the day he got there.
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In did a stat comparo in PP+ about a month ago on Wright vs. Crutcher. Crutcher actually had better marks in more categories. Wright slightly better in a couple important ones. Overall dead heat at worst for Crutcher. CAG with Wright wouldnt be yielding any better results in my opinion.
Wright gets to the paint more and finishes better inside the arc, but he cant shoot from the outside and his A/TO ratio was considerably worse from recollection.
Archie spent...who knows....2+ years recruiting Wright to try to get him here. Grant had weeks to find Crutcher. And basically found Wright's equal -- if not more so. That's witchcraft. Crutcher soph stats to Scoochie soph stats -- Crutcher wins handily.
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02-22-2019, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
In did a stat comparo in PP+ about a month ago on Wright vs. Crutcher. Crutcher actually had better marks in more categories. Wright slightly better in a couple important ones. Overall dead heat at worst for Crutcher. CAG with Wright wouldnt be yielding any better results in my opinion.
Wright gets to the paint more and finishes better inside the arc, but he cant shoot from the outside and his A/TO ratio was considerably worse from recollection.
Archie spent...who knows....2+ years recruiting Wright to try to get him here. Grant had weeks to find Crutcher. And basically found Wright's equal -- if not more so. That's witchcraft. Crutcher soph stats to Scoochie soph stats -- Crutcher wins handily.
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Wright doesn't have people that can finish like Crutcher and plays a higher level of competition
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02-22-2019, 08:08 PM
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I’m happy with Crutcher, but someone suggested that had Archie stayed, we’d be holding our breath when the PG dribbled upcourt. That seemed like a reference to John Crosby when, in fact, McKinkey Wright would have been at the controls. And more than capable.
Most here would agree that Crutcher was a steal, and AG gets the credit for that theft. And no one’s holding his breath here OR in Colorado.
Last edited by The Fly; 02-22-2019 at 08:10 PM..
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02-22-2019, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Wright doesn't have people that can finish like Crutcher and plays a higher level of competition
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Colorado has 7 guys averaging 7 pts per game or better. Including 4 guys at 6'7 or bigger. He has people around him that can finish... Yes, we lost Wright but there's no guarantee that Archie would of kept him for 4 years let alone 2.
Grant pulled a recruiting miracle finding and landing Crutcher after McCall decided to head for UMass.
We're very fortunate in having Crutch. He's a good kid and helluva basketball player.
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02-22-2019, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by EliteEight
Colorado has 7 guys averaging 7 pts per game or better. Including 4 guys at 6'7 or bigger. He has people around him that can finish... Yes, we lost Wright but there's no guarantee that Archie would of kept him for 4 years let alone 2.
Grant pulled a recruiting miracle finding and landing Crutcher after McCall decided to head for UMass.
We're very fortunate in having Crutch. He's a good kid and helluva basketball player.
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Jalen Crutcher will only get better the next two years! Rodney Chatman is a proven PG who will be a more than adequate replacement when Crutcher needs a rest. I am excited to see a rested Crutcher in the game at crunch time as opposed to this season where it seems he gets tired legs because we have no replacement. Besides the injury to Jherry Matos costing the Flyers one or perhaps 2 losses this season Crutcher's lack of not being rested enough has cost us maybe one or 2 as well!
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02-22-2019, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by EliteEight
Colorado has 7 guys averaging 7 pts per game or better. Including 4 guys at 6'7 or bigger. He has people around him that can finish... Yes, we lost Wright but there's no guarantee that Archie would of kept him for 4 years let alone 2.
Grant pulled a recruiting miracle finding and landing Crutcher after McCall decided to head for UMass.
We're very fortunate in having Crutch. He's a good kid and helluva basketball player.
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Agree on Crutcher. He has Obi who's one of the highest % shooters in NCAA hoops and Cunningham who's shooting a high %. That certainly makes it easier for him to get his assist numbers up
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02-22-2019, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer
Jalen Crutcher will only get better the next two years! Rodney Chatman is a proven PG who will be a more than adequate replacement when Crutcher needs a rest. I am excited to see a rested Crutcher in the game at crunch time as opposed to this season where it seems he gets tired legs because we have no replacement. Besides the injury to Jherry Matos costing the Flyers one or perhaps 2 losses this season Crutcher's lack of not being rested enough has cost us maybe one or 2 as well!
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I'm excited for Rodney. Heck, Crutcher was planning on heading to Chattanooga to compete with Rodney as starting PG for Mocs. Crutch would of likely been his back up if they stayed with McCall. With the extra depth and split time we'll have some serious PG talent on the court.
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02-22-2019, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Wright doesn't have people that can finish like Crutcher and plays a higher level of competition
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The conventional wisdom may say that Colorado has played a stronger schedule, but that conventional wisdom would be wrong. In reality, this year Dayton has an SOS of 87 and Colorado has an SOS of 132. Obviously, the Flyers have played a much tougher schedule this year. Last year Dayton had an SOS of 46 and Colorado an SOS of 26. Overall, the objective statistics say Dayton has played a stronger schedule while Crutcher has been a Flyer. By the way, even with the new NET, SOS is based on the RPI SOS calculation, so the SOS calculation has not changed.
Last edited by ud69; 02-22-2019 at 10:20 PM..
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02-22-2019, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ud69
The conventional wisdom may say that Colorado has played a stronger schedule, but that conventional wisdom would be wrong. In reality, this year Dayton has an SOS of 87 and Colorado has an SOS of 132. Obviously, the Flyers have played a much tougher schedule this year. Last year Dayton had an SOS of 46 and Colorado an SOS of 26. Overall, the objective statistics say Dayton has played a stronger schedule while Crutcher has been a Flyer. By the way, even with the new NET, SOS is based on the RPI SOS calculation, so the SOS calculation has not changed.
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Their OOC was weaker but the PAC 12, even down, is a higher rated conference than the A10 this year. The A10 is behind the MAC
http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2019/conferencenet
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02-22-2019, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Wright doesn't have people that can finish like Crutcher...
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Which speaks to Grant’s (and Miller’s) recruiting ability vs. that of the Colorado coaches.
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02-22-2019, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
Which speaks to Grant’s (and Miller’s) recruiting ability vs. that of the Colorado coaches.
Posted via Mobile Device
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He's dipped his past couple years there
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02-22-2019, 10:42 PM
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I know where the A-10 ranks as a conference. However, a conference ranking is not a determining factor in SOS. In this era of unbalanced conference schedules one cannot compare conferences when looking at SOS. If you then add in the non-conference SOS - Dayton sits at 88 and Colorado sits at 259 - the disparity in favor of a stronger Flyer schedule is even more striking.
http://www.udpride.com/images/rpi.htm
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02-22-2019, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ud69
I know where the A-10 ranks as a conference. However, a conference ranking is not a determining factor in SOS. In this era of unbalanced conference schedules one cannot compare conferences when looking at SOS. If you then add in the non-conference SOS - Dayton sits at 88 and Colorado sits at 259 - the disparity in favor of a stronger Flyer schedule is even more striking.
http://www.udpride.com/images/rpi.htm
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Bruce Rasmussen, selection committee chairman and Creighton athletic director
Dirk is correct in stating that the non-conference SOS has its flaws. It only takes into account the won-lost records of who you played, not where you played the game, not the outcome of the game, and most importantly, not the strength of the team you played. For instance, for non-conference SOS purposes, a game at home against 9-6 Penn has a more positive impact on non-conference SOS than a game on the road against 7-5 Indiana because winning 9/15 games is a better decimal than winning 7/12.
http://udpride.com/forums/showpost.p...57&postcount=7
The Pac 12 is a better conference than the A10 this year
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02-22-2019, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Bruce Rasmussen, selection committee chairman and Creighton athletic director
Dirk is correct in stating that the non-conference SOS has its flaws. It only takes into account the won-lost records of who you played, not where you played the game, not the outcome of the game, and most importantly, not the strength of the team you played. For instance, for non-conference SOS purposes, a game at home against 9-6 Penn has a more positive impact on non-conference SOS than a game on the road against 7-5 Indiana because winning 9/15 games is a better decimal than winning 7/12.
http://udpride.com/forums/showpost.p...57&postcount=7
The Pac 12 is a better conference than the A10 this year
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I agree with you that the Pac 12 is a better conference this year than the weak A-10. I also understand that SOS only looks at the opponent winning percentage and not the location of the game. In that regard, since Power-5 conferences like the Pac 12 are more likely to schedule non-conference games at home, non Power-5 conferences like the A-10 would most likely see an improvement in SOS if venue location was included in the SOS calculation. All of the above being said, the unbiased statistics say the Flyers have played a stronger schedule than the Buffs.
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02-22-2019, 11:41 PM
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NET rankings, UD 74, Buffs 75
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02-23-2019, 09:38 AM
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Just like the Miller v Grant comparisons. Wright is a good player that chose to go to Colorado. Crutcher is a good player that chose to play for the Flyers. What each could have done on a different team irrelevant.
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02-23-2019, 10:19 AM
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The PAC10 this year is barely better than the A10, and not in a material way when you compare Crutcher to Wright. Those two cats are about dead even. Bottom line we lost nothing in not getting Wright, and that was not our problem last year, nor this year.
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02-23-2019, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Definitely true that many coaches leave but even good coaches that are lifers like Phil Martelli haven't done it
Looking to other high level non power leagues Steve Alford never put together 4 straight appearances and he was at New Mexico 6 years. It took Steve Fischer a decade at San Diego State before he put together consecutive NCAA appearances. Randy Bennet at St. Mary's hasn't done and he's been there most of this century
Gregg McDermott is in his 9th season at Creighton and he hasn't done it
Lon Krueger couldn't do it in 7 years at UNLV
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The difference between UD and these other examples is the resource disparity between UD and the rest of the A10 (except VCU and, perhaps, St. Louis) vs. these schools and their situations. New Mexico may have had a similar advantage but, again, Alford left and the rinse, repeat cycle started. Mark Few/Gonzaga is really the only example I can see.
Martelli is a good coach-just like Mark Schmidt at SBU-but they don't have a resource advantage which limits their effectiveness (along with trying to recruit athletes to Olean, NY)
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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