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12-14-2015, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by O'side Flyer
I think it's amazing that after the process he's been through, whether or not you think his case was justly adjudicated, anyone could label him "a Royally selfish SOB." Any fan who thinks that needs to look in the mirror first.
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Here's my Royal reasoning...
Being part of a Team means making sacrifices.
If Pierre is thinking " I know the True Team needs me and I know I could make the True Team better but I'm not coming back until '16-'17 because I want to play a full season." then, by definition, he's not a Team player.
FWIW, I look in the mirror all the time. Who could blame me?!
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12-14-2015, 09:27 AM
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Maybe the "I" part of the equation becomes a bit stronger when you are a Junior and half. He has the pressure of wanting to be ready for pro tryouts with his rookie class at his age. And also he has a desire to get his degree on time, but having lost a semester of credits.
Maybe the decision of which Flyer class needs him the most is not really clear and is influenced a lot by Arch and his parents in view of the above. I don't think Dyshawn is a selfish person by nature. He has shown that during his tenure at Dayton.
It's more complicated than simply selfishness, although it's easy to see why in the end it could be perceived as such.
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12-14-2015, 09:40 AM
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Let's just say Pierre sprained his ankle before Game 1 and it was bad enough that he had to miss a month but would be ready by 12/22.
Would a 'redshirt' even be discussed? Hell no! All the talk would be about his return, not his options.
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12-14-2015, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Let's just say Pierre sprained his ankle before Game 1 and it was bad enough that he had to miss a month but would be ready by 12/22.
Would a 'redshirt' even be discussed? Hell no! All the talk would be about his return, not his options.
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As a fan I think I may even bring this up if I felt that DP wasn't going to be a 100% contributor upon his return. This team definitely needs DP, but I don't think he is the savior that some think for this season. You don't just hop back in as a double double guy after being away from the team for months.
He is a great player and is a smart player, but I don't think that he knocks this team into some level that they aren't at right now. His return is a band-aid right now for a team that can't do a handful of things well...such as guard a ball screen, rotate properly, shoot free throws, etc...stuff that DP will help with, bit these are team faults that one guy isn't going to fix.
I think that DP wants to come back (as he is a competitor)...I think that this team could/would definitely benefit with him on it...but I also think that IF he were to come back for a full 16-17 season, that the 16-17 team sees more benefit than the 15-16 team.
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12-14-2015, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Here's my Royal reasoning...
Being part of a Team means making sacrifices.
If Pierre is thinking "I know the True Team needs me and I know I could make the True Team better but I'm not coming back until '16-'17 because I want to play a full season." then, by definition, he's not a Team player.
FWIW, I look in the mirror all the time. Who could blame me?!
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Look, DP has to also do what's best for DP, too....He's busted his ass for 3 years here..Every kid in D1 wants to go pro, football or BB, when they get recruited....May not feel the same way 2-3 years down the line but DP is going to make money somewhere and whether he wants to finish this year or RS for a full year and further his development it's his decision and I won't call him selfish like many here because you want your team to do well..
Add in the fact that back in his mind there's a spot that believes he was dealt with unfairly and he was robbed of close to one-third of the season....I'll back him 100% as everyone should if you give one rats ass about DP and the kind of kid and player he's been..
Would I like to see him come back? Absolutely because this team needs him badly and they can be pretty special once A10 comes..
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12-14-2015, 11:04 AM
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There will be a different challenge if Pierre sits the year.
Next year's team would have 5 seniors and at least one of them won't start. Archie might have a real playing time issue at hand. If he plays the seniors too much, (ala Jim Crews 2 years ago), he hurts the development for the team in the following year. If he tries to distribute the minutes, the playing time egos have to be managed.
The other wild card is injuries. The freshman have played poorly of late. The bench might get real thin if a key player is injured.
I would love to see a full year from Pierre, but it is obvious that this year's team can use him even if he is not 100%.
Interesting dilemma for Archie, Dyshawn and the staff the week.
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12-14-2015, 11:08 AM
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Arguments can be made for both playing this year and sitting out and playing a full season. I don't think it is coach speak when Archie says it will be Pierre's decision.
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12-14-2015, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80
Arguments can be made for both playing this year and sitting out and playing a full season. I don't think it is coach speak when Archie says it will be Pierre's decision.
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I agree and believe Pierre has earned this.
My prediction is he'll play. I don't see any strong upside to him sitting out the full year. I think we are a better team in March with him.
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12-14-2015, 11:51 AM
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I'm not into this identity thing. I think that once you develop an identity and try to push that identity then the opponent preparation is straight forward and your going to get beat...maybe consistently. You have a game strategy that is dependent upon the current team circumstances and the oppositions attributes.
This team must have a crunch-time scorer. DP is this guy. He did it before and he will do it again. Once the defense focuses on DP, then it will immediately open the game to everyone else. IMHO Pollard is still a shell of a player...because DP is not on the court with him. Pollard is good but not good enough to consistently create his own space and shot in the middle...without DP. Jordan/Pippin (DP/KP in that order) kind of thing. DP is almost unstoppable when he has a slim opening and he has the skills and courage during crunch time. Also, he can score when fouled. Who else on the team can consistenly do this?
Don't start him the first game back but have him play a solid 30 minutes from day 1 till end of season.
Archie is foolish if he thinks that DP should slowly phased into this team. He is a SENIOR...performing under pressure is what seniors do. The starting lineup is last years' lineup. He knows these guys. He only needs to develop stamina and brush off the spyder webs. The fact that he hasn't played with a bunch of freshman...not important. The true freshman take his lead, he doesn't take their lead. Again, IMHO the true freshman have not established the ability to execute plays...maybe with the exception of Mikesells (who's currently a significant defensive liability). This is not going to get worse when DP returns.
Think about Mikesells/(Marcus Johnson et.al) and the other true freshman who lit it up on day one. I think it is not a stretch to think that DP is better than these totally inexperience guys.
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12-14-2015, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill202
I agree and believe Pierre has earned this.
My prediction is he'll play. I don't see any strong upside to him sitting out the full year. I think we are a better team in March with him.
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March 2016 or March 2017?
Whether this year or next Pierre makes this team better.
One negative people keep saying of him playing next year is the recruiting aspect....the classes won't be balanced.
True...BUT...
What if the staff isn't high on the 2016HS class and is really high on 2017? Maybe staff wouldn't be opposed to DP eating a scholly next year and offering 5 to 2017 because they anticipate Landers being the only commit in 16?
We are getting pretty late in the recruiting game. At this point has a 2nd kid not committed because they don't know if there will be a spot for them, or has the staff backed off the recruiting trail a little bit on 16' kids bcc they aren't high on any and not knowing what DP will do? We did lose a few recruiting battles over the last few months so maybe staff is content on sitting tight.
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12-14-2015, 12:06 PM
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Our head coach and new AD are 100% in charge of what Pierre does, or at least they should be!
It's silly to think that when he comes back is Pierre's decision...it's UD's scholarship, not Pierre's, and UD should be calling all the shots. UD can't let him do whatever he wants, after all, it's that attitude and behavior that put him in this position to begin with .
It's obvious the '15-'16 team needs him despite the coach-speak Archie is throwing around, which is all I think it is. Behind the scenes, I sure as hell hope Pierre is being told what UD expects of him as of 12/22.
We'll be an NCAA caliber team in '16-'17 without him. After the joke of a Chattanooga game, I'm not so sure we'll be one this season with him in street clothes. When you're a mid-major (or come from a mid-major conference) every season matters. Royally!
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12-14-2015, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Our head coach and new AD are 100% in charge of what Pierre does, or at least they should be!
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I disagree. While UD will decide if he can play this year, Pierre can decide that will end his career with UD. This would leave UD/Archie in a take-it or leave-it choice. Hopefully, both sides come up with the best solution for all so that both Pierre & the team benefit.
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12-14-2015, 12:53 PM
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Agreed - No question, that is a ridiculous claim. Pierre will decide if he plays this year or next year, Archie will aid him in his choice and set a plan. Just like any other player on the roster, he controls his own destiny and if he follows his coaches plan and lead he will be successful.
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12-14-2015, 01:12 PM
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This...
"It's obvious the '15-'16 team needs him despite the coach-speak Archie is throwing around, which is all I think it is. Behind the scenes, I sure as hell hope Pierre is being told what UD expects of him as of 12/22."
The December 20 meeting will be about verifying DP did what was expected of him while he was suspended... if DP matched or exceeded the coaching and admin staff's expectations - he will be in uniform against Miami.
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12-14-2015, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by O'side Flyer
I think it's amazing that after the process he's been through, whether or not you think his case was justly adjudicated, anyone could label him "a Royally selfish SOB." Any fan who thinks that needs to look in the mirror first.
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It's not often I run to Rollo's defense but this is completely off base. There are those on this board that want Pierre to play so THEY will be excited by a couple more wins than perhaps would be the result without Pierre. If anything, Rollo has been consistent. He doesn't need UD wins to help develop and/or maintain the enormous sense of self he possesses.
His comment was that Pierre should consider his teammates as a part of his calculus. While it shouldn't be the only variable in his decision, It should be included.
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12-14-2015, 01:17 PM
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Years ago my then boss approached one of my coworkers with a very large environmental permit to review and the worker pushed it back and told him that he 'doesn't do permits'. So the boss gave it to someone else. Bad idea as suddenly everyone got the message that they chose what and how much work they will do.
Here, there and everywhere else, inmates should never run the asylum and if Archie really wants the OSU/NC State/etc... job, he's going to have to prove he's capable of captaining the ship because at bigger jobs he'll have bigger issues. It's not a hard sell to convince Pierre to return next week and I'll be (1) royally shocked and (2) royally disappointed in Archie's leadership if he doesn't.
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12-14-2015, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Years ago my then boss approached one of my coworkers with a very large environmental permit to review and the worker pushed it back and told him that he 'doesn't do permits'. So the boss gave it to someone else. Bad idea as suddenly everyone got the message that they chose what and how much work they will do.
Here, there and everywhere else, inmates should never run the asylum and if Archie really wants the OSU/NC State/etc... job, he's going to have to prove he's capable of captaining the ship because at bigger jobs he'll have bigger issues. It's not a hard sell to convince Pierre to return next week and I'll be (1) royally shocked and (2) royally disappointed in Archie's leadership if he doesn't.
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While I agree that Pierre shouldn't get to dictate the terms of his return or subsequent play, he does have the right to express his desires and negotiate those terms. He is not indentured and, as such, may choose to leave if the terms are not acceptable to him.
In your work example above, the employee's choice should have been to do the assigned task or find another asylum to while away the time.
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12-14-2015, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan
It's not often I run to Rollo's defense but this is completely off base. There are those on this board that want Pierre to play so THEY will be excited by a couple more wins than perhaps would be the result without Pierre. If anything, Rollo has been consistent. He doesn't need UD wins to help develop and/or maintain the enormous sense of self he possesses.
His comment was that Pierre should consider his teammates as a part of his calculus. While it shouldn't be the only variable in his decision, It should be included.
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Sorry, but I have a hard time equating "Pierre should consider his teammates as a part of his calculus" with "Royally selfish SOB."
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12-14-2015, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Our head coach and new AD are 100% in charge of what Pierre does, or at least they should be!
It's silly to think that when he comes back is Pierre's decision...it's UD's scholarship, not Pierre's, and UD should be calling all the shots. UD can't let him do whatever he wants, after all, it's that attitude and behavior that put him in this position to begin with .
It's obvious the '15-'16 team needs him despite the coach-speak Archie is throwing around, which is all I think it is. Behind the scenes, I sure as hell hope Pierre is being told what UD expects of him as of 12/22.
We'll be an NCAA caliber team in '16-'17 without him. After the joke of a Chattanooga game, I'm not so sure we'll be one this season with him in street clothes. When you're a mid-major (or come from a mid-major conference) every season matters. Royally!
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Sure, ultimately Archie/UD can dictate what Pierre does but if he goes against Pierre's desires and gives him a take it or leave it proposition, it may have a negative effect on the rest of the team and the future. That does not mean he only thinks of Pierre but in this case, I think Archie will go with Pierre's desire.
While I would not want to work for a namby pamby, that let's subordinates decide if they work on permits or not, I also wouldn't want to work for someone that always has to prove that, they are the boss. I am guessing you would have a hard time with that too.
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12-14-2015, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Our head coach and new AD are 100% in charge of what Pierre does, or at least they should be!
It's silly to think that when he comes back is Pierre's decision...it's UD's scholarship, not Pierre's, and UD should be calling all the shots. UD can't let him do whatever he wants, after all, it's that attitude and behavior that put him in this position to begin with .
It's obvious the '15-'16 team needs him despite the coach-speak Archie is throwing around, which is all I think it is. Behind the scenes, I sure as hell hope Pierre is being told what UD expects of him as of 12/22.
We'll be an NCAA caliber team in '16-'17 without him. After the joke of a Chattanooga game, I'm not so sure we'll be one this season with him in street clothes. When you're a mid-major (or come from a mid-major conference) every season matters. Royally!
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Wrong, and, no, they should not be as it's already been stated by AM and especially with this delicate of a situation and how it was handled........It's no different than decisions that are made with an 18 year old kid RS'ing..Parents and the kid are all in the conversations and something tells me that DP has earned just a bit more than that as far as say so and respect........
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Our head coach and new AD are 100% in charge of what Pierre does, or at least they should be!
Last edited by steve; 12-14-2015 at 03:10 PM..
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12-14-2015, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by O'side Flyer
Sorry, but I have a hard time equating "Pierre should consider his teammates as a part of his calculus" with "Royally selfish SOB."
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You say tomato and I say tomahto...
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12-14-2015, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
I think that DP wants to come back (as he is a competitor)...I think that this team could/would definitely benefit with him on it...but I also think that IF he were to come back for a full 16-17 season, that the 16-17 team sees more benefit than the 15-16 team.
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Regardless of when Pierre returns, we're going to be Royally better off. I just think we need him more this season than next.
And because our bball players take 6-12 credit hours every summer, I would hope that he is still on track to graduate this May so he can on with his professional life with a degree. I'll look into it.
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12-14-2015, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Regardless of when Pierre returns, we're going to be Royally better off. I just think we need him more this season than next.
And because our bball players take 6-12 credit hours every summer, I would hope that he is still on track to graduate this May so he can on with his professional life with a degree. I'll look into it.
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And I think he's needed far more this year as well...At least next year you have a core nucleus of 9-10 guys back a 2nd year after playing 30-35 games plus a guy in Cunningham who provides a DP type body and possible skill-set..
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12-14-2015, 04:03 PM
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Given that AM/UD are steering the ship...what do you think they want? A full season loaded with seniors, or the remainder of this season? I don't know, but like you said, AM is running this...not DP.
Knowing what goes into constant practice and player development, I honestly don't see DP walking into the gym running on all cylinders, with what amounts to, a new team.
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12-14-2015, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
You say tomato and I say tomahto...
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Let's call the whole thing off...
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12-14-2015, 07:36 PM
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How do you think coaching staff will run the first practice with Pierre...
1.) He's runs with the 2nd team (or gets worked in however they do the first subs in) - maybe jumping ahead or Xerius or Miller
2.) He runs with the first team (they want the offense and defense back to where it was at the end of last year asap) - maybe jumping ahead of Big Steve
Will be a test of "True Team" regardless
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12-15-2015, 12:41 AM
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I fall in the category that Pierre is an exceptional talent, one that has been rarely seen at UD in years. Let's use him for a full year, not for maybe a little over a month once he is in full game shape.
I believe it is in Dyshawn's best interest to red shirt as well. Both academically and athletically.
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12-15-2015, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
As a fan I think I may even bring this up if I felt that DP wasn't going to be a 100% contributor upon his return. This team definitely needs DP, but I don't think he is the savior that some think for this season. You don't just hop back in as a double double guy after being away from the team for months.
He is a great player and is a smart player, but I don't think that he knocks this team into some level that they aren't at right now. His return is a band-aid right now for a team that can't do a handful of things well...such as guard a ball screen, rotate properly, shoot free throws, etc...stuff that DP will help with, bit these are team faults that one guy isn't going to fix.
I think that DP wants to come back (as he is a competitor)...I think that this team could/would definitely benefit with him on it...but I also think that IF he were to come back for a full 16-17 season, that the 16-17 team sees more benefit than the 15-16 team.
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If we think of DP as the player he was last season, I could see where you're coming from. He was our main man in the paint. But if you think of all the different aspects DP provided over his first 3 seasons here all together it's very easy to see he is talented in just about all aspects of the game, inside and out. Offense and Defense. Rebounding, 3 points shooting, clutch FTs, offense in the paint. Actually, he's exactly that special player that might just turn a team completely around, especially in his 4th season.
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12-15-2015, 09:05 AM
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I assume that because we have not heard anything contrary that nothing between the University and DP will preclude his return. How many practices will he participate in before the first game?
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12-15-2015, 10:07 AM
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One or two.
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12-16-2015, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 1903 Flyer
We needed another thread for this?
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Apparently because it got 129 replies and 8,800 views so far.
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12-16-2015, 10:35 AM
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The Most Effective Lineup
this year will be SM, DP, KP, CC and SS. It is just a matter of time before we see it. This lineup can play well at both ends of the court.
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12-16-2015, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse
this year will be SM, DP, KP, CC and SS. It is just a matter of time before we see it. This lineup can play well at both ends of the court.
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Even without our best defensive player that lineup would cause nightmares for opposing offenses. SM clogging the middle, KP and CC with their shot blocking ability, and DP just all around solid on the defensive end.
What KD does best is scoring in transition and creating turnovers into quick scoring opportunities. He isn't an offensive threat in the half-court. The above lineup would break defenses down in SO many ways. That's why DP is so important because of his versatility.
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12-20-2015, 02:11 AM
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General
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10 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to frisco flyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
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12-20-2015, 09:02 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
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It's 'bout time !!
I hope the crowd embraces Dyshawn as Arch has expressed. I can tell you for sure I will be standing at my desk in Dallas clapping so loud the neighbors will complain.
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10 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to San Diego Flyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
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12-20-2015, 09:49 AM
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General of the Air Force
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There will be silence behind John R's chair if even filled......rollo may boycott.
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Mad Props to Avid Flyer For This Totally Excellent Post:
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12-20-2015, 10:07 AM
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Captain
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Standing ovation from me. What will UDDoug's reaction be ?
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12-20-2015, 11:05 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer
There will be silence behind John R's chair if even filled......rollo may boycott.
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Rollo will be a the Oakwood v Dixie boondockle...John R can safely act like a 3rd grade girl...although I'm pretty sure it's not an act.
...and I'm not sure a standing 'O' would send the right message as it can be interpreted in many different ways.
Regardless, Pierre got screwed and I hope he plays with both a purpose and a vengeance.
__________________
I shaved my balls for this?
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12-20-2015, 11:17 AM
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Captain
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Regardless, Pierre got screwed and I hope he plays with both a purpose and a vengeance.[/QUOTE]
With his return, the only remaining question is how mad the whole situation made Archie. His comments supporting Pierre today in the DDN would say "pretty mad". . .
We'll see at the end of the season. . . . .
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12-20-2015, 12:01 PM
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Colonel
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GoFlyer, I feel the same as you when it comes to Archie's remarks regarding the situation. He seems pretty frustrated if not upset about all of this stuff. Written words can be interpreted in many ways and as you said guess we'll find out in early spring.
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12-20-2015, 12:33 PM
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Captain
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Originally Posted by Ready Action
GoFlyer, I feel the same as you when it comes to Archie's remarks regarding the situation. He seems pretty frustrated if not upset about all of this stuff. Written words can be interpreted in many ways and as you said guess we'll find out in early spring.
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Growing up with a lifetime coach as a Dad and an older brother who is very successful at several big time bball programs, in no way is Archie as young or naive as it may appear. If anything, he worries and deals with what he can control concerning his basketball team and tries to limit the distractions, issues, and influences for them.
In the case of Dyshawn, I think he genuinely cares in more than a basketball sense and as many have expressed, feels Dyshawn was wronged. Unfortunately, his position and statue forces him to remain quiet. I look forward to Dyshawn's return and wish him nothing but the best.
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12-20-2015, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by skip69
I have rarely been 100% sure about anything, and only then if the situation was entirely under my control. I guess you must be DP's, AM's, and the new VP of Athletics best friends to be so positive about this (not to mention other topics on this board). What an ego!
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Skip, where are you? Looks like you were wrong.
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12-20-2015, 01:07 PM
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1st Lieutenant
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Would posters be willing to stop using initials for everyone? It takes a minute sometimes to know what you're talking about, and I'm not sure if I can deal with another 3 months of people calling the man DP.
On a more important note, can't wait to see Pierre back in the lineup. He's pretty much exactly what this team needs - a smart player who can rebound and create opportunities for himself and others when the offense stagnates. He and Cooke are going to be a great wing tandem, they give us so much versatility with their ability to shoot and rebound.
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12-20-2015, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by big jordan
Would posters be willing to stop using initials for everyone? It takes a minute sometimes to know what you're talking about, and I'm not sure if I can deal with another 3 months of people calling the man DP.
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Thank you! (But it won't do any good.)
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12-20-2015, 03:23 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by big jordan
Would posters be willing to stop using initials for everyone? It takes a minute sometimes to know what you're talking about, and I'm not sure if I can deal with another 3 months of people calling the man DP.
On a more important note, can't wait to see Pierre back in the lineup. He's pretty much exactly what this team needs - a smart player who can rebound and create opportunities for himself and others when the offense stagnates. He and Cooke are going to be a great wing tandem, they give us so much versatility with their ability to shoot and rebound.
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As long as nobody starts referring to the walk-ons by their initials, it's pretty easy. SM is a little confusing. And next year we will have two JCs, but it's really not that difficult.
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12-20-2015, 05:07 PM
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Major General
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Thank You
IWSUI's.
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12-20-2015, 06:28 PM
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2nd Lieutenant
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As an alum, it will be hard - and will take years - for me to trust the administration. I will no longer be opening my pocket books after their failure to act in a timely manner and properly regard all facts. I for one will be screaming my ass off for Pierre and while the administration who slept on the job may or may not take notice, my empty donation envelops will eventually be of notice to them.
Free Pierre, it's time for justice to prevail - see ya on the court soon big guy!
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2 UDPriders Offer Mad Props to Archie MillerLite For This Totally Excellent Post:
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12-20-2015, 06:41 PM
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nice to know he is back.
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12-23-2015, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by FLYER5
Absolutely coachspeak. I don't think he makes more than maybe a cameo in the Miami game. Why risk injury.
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Archie didn't give in to the wants of the fans. I applaud him for that and expected great judgment in the handling of his re-acclimation. It seemed unrealistic to me that he would put Dyshawn in any substantial role for the first game that he was eligible to play, just for the sake of the fans.
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12-23-2015, 11:56 AM
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We dogged a Bullet last nite. I disagree with we didn't want injury and Or needed more practice time. Valentine for Mich State had 48 practices and played 11 games and he like many others have been hurt this year. The team has been flat and needed a lift and for 10 minutes DP would have provided that spark. Ryan,Sam and X combined for zero points, Zero rebounds and zero assists in a combined 9 min. Also Archie said there changing defenses confused us. I hope for next year Archie considers changing defenses at Times and confuses the other team. I think that's his next step in becoming a great coach. That 1-3-1 is an aggressive attacking defense that can confuse, takes time off the clock and causes turnovers. Just have it in the bag and not be so predictable. Redhawks were getting to basket too easy. Just my thoughts, I would have played him and brought the roof down.
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