Has anybody taken the "UD Arena Renovation Feasibility Survey" yet?

[priceg75]

If so, what surprised you about the questions? What did you list as "best/worst" aspects of the game day experience? Any other thoughts?

Are you surprised to learn there was such a survey?

[longtimefan]

I received the e-mail. Haven't looked at it yet. I received a letter in the mail saying there would be a survey and it has been discussed on this board.

[priceg75]

Well, they have a couple of art concepts in there about what they are considering doing that is heavily noted as just a concept and not necessarily representative of any final work that may be done.

Well worth your time just for that, IMO.

[THirt]

Just finished filling it out. I thought they did a good job asking for feedback on the right stuff, and seemed to have the right idea about the kinds of things to improve. The concept drawings were pretty cool.

I think the biggest things that need improved are the bottlenecks in the corners of the Arena.

If they can keep the charm of the building and add more modern amenities, to me that is honestly better than building a brand new Arena. I should have out this in the survey, but I think keeping it named University of Dayton Arena is a big deal. "So-and-so" corporate sponsor arena names always sound dumb.

The other takeaway is that it is gonna cost more. Shocking, I know.
Posted via Mobile Device

[FlyerNation23]

Can somebody provide pictures of the concept drawings?

[Lifelong Flyer Fan]

I filled it out today. One additional comment I made was to do everything possible to keep the name University of Dayton Arena.

[TA111]

Filled it out this afternoon. Bottom line is they appear to want to really upgrade the arena and overall experience, add club seating and loge seats. Really neat stuff, but like anything else there is a price to be paid.

[VirgM]

Some very good ideas thrown out but be prepared to take out an additional mortgage if you want any decent seating. Not everyone has a corporate bankroll.

[udflyerhoops2]

Would love to keep the name UD Arena, but as long as my dad and I can keep our seats without having to cripple our finances, I wouldn't care if it was the Tampax arena.

[TerryK_67]

survey seemed to be focused on high end amenities and plush stuff. I am more interested on daily game atmosphere kinda stuff. I guess we'll have t see what comes out of it

[TX Flyer]

Received it in my email today and I dont have season tickets and live in Texas. Based off of that it must be random sample.

It asked multiple questions about what Id like to see improved, new seating plans (think vip boxes in lower arena), seat license fees, etc.

[N2663R]

Originally Posted by FlyerNation23 Can somebody provide pictures of the concept drawings?

Outside:



Inside:



Sorry they are fuzzy, but they were very small images to start with.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer Received it in my email today and I dont have season tickets and live in Texas. Based off of that it must be random sample. It asked multiple questions about what Id like to see improved, new seating plans (think vip boxes in lower arena), seat license fees, etc.

Are you a donor?

[TommyGola]

I received my survey today and filled it out. It was very detailed and it conveyed to me that options are in the planning stage. I am still a supporter of a new facility...bigger and completely state of the art that would make UD a basketball destination. But I did indicate I would gladly support refurbishing of the existing facility if indeed that decision is made.

[Townie]

20 million can buy you naming rights

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

I wish I could read the proposed floor plan when I enlarge it on my computer, but looks like a nice concept from what I can tell. Has UD posted this plan on their web site anywhere for enlarged viewing?

Just an educated guess, but it appears they are adding seating where the current concourse is. Maybe some luxury boxes? Sure would be nice to pick up another 2K seats or so, without being too far above the action.

[Flyer Al]

I received this today and I am not a season ticket holder, just an occasional ticket buyer. I answered all of the questions but I feel it would make it more meaningful if it allowed different questions for those that have season tickets and those that do not. It asked a lot of questions which dealt with improving my current seats. I do not have current seats so all of my answers were irrelevant but they demanded an answer. There should have been a "not a season ticket holder" option for an answer

[College B-Ball Fan]

Originally Posted by VirgM Some very good ideas thrown out but be prepared to take out an additional mortgage if you want any decent seating. Not everyone has a corporate bankroll.

Virg, references were made to paying higher seat licenses for sure. i.e. If you currently pay $600.00 per year (per seat) as a seat license for the 200's mid court or 100 sections on the corners of the arena-----------expect that if the heavy duty upgrades occur you'd be asked/expected to pay between $900.00---1,200.00 per year (per seat_. Of course like now you still pay the yearly cost of the game tickets themselves, etc.!

Folks in the 100's at mid court who currently pay $1,500.00 per year (per seat)-------see how that would work? Maybe an increase per year per seat to between 2,250.00-----3,000.00 per seat per year! Again, depending on the levels of the overall up grades that are ultimately pursued!

Maybe, when some of the folks on this forum who bit** and moan about "grey hairs" getting up a couple minutes early so they can get to there cars at the end of the game-------maybe when they think about what these folks have been doing to "support" UD athletics and "there" UD Arena experience by paying what they have for the past 10, 20, 30 0r 40 + years as the costs have continued to rise for the seat licenses, etc. they might have a little better appreciation for the "grey hairs" doing whatever they want------because they've EARNED the right to do so! Ay least IMHO!

The projected increases will probably result in new seats in the lower bowl & more, overhauls of the concession area's and menu's, multiple additional changes..........and as always over the past 20-30 years it won't be paid for by students behind the basket whose parents are footing the 50K bill a year for there time at UD! That's OK--------that's the deal----

Again, I love the students, what they add (which is invaluable to the game time experience, etc) but students come and go..........it's the UD community (grey hairs and all) that will pay the freight which is exactly how it's always been and the only way it really can work!

Let's hope that if as it was alluded to in the survey (some folks in the lower bowls can't renew, OR simple want to move to a higher seat to keep there costs each year the same, etc.) when those seats are offered in the lower bowl---------at a high premium to buy into these seating area's like UD has offered in the past (i.e. maybe 5K per seat per year for a period of time)----some of the more recent graduates will step up and support UD and UD athletics!

I can only hope---------then I'll support them leaving any dam* time they want to leave the game as well!

[GoFlyer]

I hope there are a lot of "more recent grads" with very good paying jobs because if the seat licenses go up as above, there will be a lot of us "grey hairs" bailing out. .. .check out the arena next game. There are a lot of us. Here's one with four seats for over 30 years. At these prices, I'm leaving for Florida. . . .UD basketball is the one thing that has kept me in Dayton in my retirement years but at this price, kiss us goodbye. You are welcome to buy our seats in the 200 section for $1200 a seat - you're young. But what about saving for your kids college education? And your retirement? Are there enough of you youngen's to pay these prices? And enough corporations in town to underwrite all those new premium seats?

[ud99]

Originally Posted by N2663R Outside: Inside: Sorry they are fuzzy, but they were very small images to start with.

For some reason I can't see the pictures. Is anybody having this issue? Does anyone else have pictures or a scan of the questionnaire?

[priceg75]

http://s20.postimg.org/tfhp2dwx9/Q18_Map.jpg
http://s20.postimg.org/kj2bkpgx9/Q18_Stadium.jpg

That's as large a resolution as they posted, so there is no zooming in for more detail.

[ud99]

Originally Posted by priceg75 http://s20.postimg.org/tfhp2dwx9/Q18_Map.jpg http://s20.postimg.org/kj2bkpgx9/Q18_Stadium.jpg That's as large a resolution as they posted, so there is no zooming in for more detail.

Great Thanks!

Mixed reactions about this. How much is this going to cost in ticket prices and would it be cheaper to just build a new arena?

[CE80]

Originally Posted by ud99 Great Thanks! Mixed reactions about this. How much is this going to cost in ticket prices and would it be cheaper to just build a new arena?

I am sure they will be able to keep tickets prices and seat licenses the same just like they were able to hold tuition prices when they made all the physical upgrades on campus.

[priceg75]

My favorite thing about the pictures is the flock of birds in the exterior shot. You know there was a guy who had to place those in that picture. How many birds? How many different stages of flight should the birds be in? Where in the picture? Why not higher up?

[Nashville_Flyer]

Originally Posted by TommyGola I received my survey today and filled it out. It was very detailed and it conveyed to me that options are in the planning stage. I am still a supporter of a new facility...bigger and completely state of the art that would make UD a basketball destination. But I did indicate I would gladly support refurbishing of the existing facility if indeed that decision is made.

I think UD Arena currently is closer to a basketball destination than it would be if a new, state of the art arena was built. There are plenty of those in the country, and they are very nice places to watch games, but cookie cutter and not considered destinations. The destinations are old places (that have often been upgraded), Allen Fieldhouse, Palestra, Hinkle, Cameron, Rupp, Assembly Hall, etc.

[UD_Earl]

From the Survey:


UD ARENA IMPROVEMENTS
Opened in 1969, the 46-year old UD Arena has served the university well over the years. However, to position the arena to effectively serve the UD community for the next 30 to 40 years, there is a need to make improvements to meet current codes, address deferred maintenance issues, improve technology, enhance the fan’s game-day experience and continue to serve as an important resource in supporting the financial operations of the UD athletics program.

UD Arena improvements could include:
· Providing accommodations for disabled patrons;
· Replacement of arena seating;
· Increasing the number of restrooms;
· Increasing the number of concession points of sale;
· Improving crowd flow and relieving congestion points;
· Upgrade lighting;
· Add air conditioning;
· New state-of-the-art center hung scoreboard;
· Adding an interior lobby with more convenient ticket windows and merchandise store;
· Adding new seating options and club lounge; and,
· Aesthetic improvements to arena’s exterior façade.

[UD_Earl]

PREMIUM SEATING INTEREST
Improvements to UD Arena could include exciting and exclusive new premium seating opportunities on the sideline concourse. New premium seating opportunities could include:
· Club Seats - Wider, more comfortable seats with in-seat wait service located in the lower level with access to a new exclusive club lounge overlooking the court with enhanced food and beverage options.

· Loge Boxes - Semi-private area of 4 to 8 seats with in-seat wait service located in the lower level with moveable, office-type chairs with a countertop, flat screen TV monitor and access to a new exclusive club lounge overlooking the court with enhanced food and beverage options.

· Terrace Suite - Private area of 10 to 12 seats with all-inclusive food and non-alcoholic beverages in lower level with its own private lounge with furniture, kitchenette, TVs and a direct view to the court.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UD_Earl Providing accommodations for disabled patrons;

What is meant by this? There is accessible seating currently available.

[Lifelong Flyer Fan]

Originally Posted by ud2 What is meant by this? There is accessible seating currently available.

Could mean having dedicated doors (automatically opening)for entrance for people with walkers, wheelchairs etc. Now they rely on someone at the door seeing them coming and opening a door for them because they can't get through the turnstiles. Also a gradually inclined entrance to the arena instead of a curb. This would make for an easier approach for many people. I had a friend who missed the curb and cracked her head open and an ambulance had to be called.

[Columbia Blue]

i wonder if renovations would be done in phases, or could be completed in a single offseason? the last major renovations (2002) were done march - october = concessions, flight deck, boesch lounge

i believe notre dame updated the ACC in a single offseason (now purcell pavilion), whereas...

During the renovation, Georgia Tech's basketball teams played their 2011–2012 games at Philips Arena or Arena at Gwinnett Center. (25 miles from campus)

All of Clemson’s home games will be played in Greenville’s Bon Secours Wellness Arena, the home to Tiger basketball while Littlejohn Coliseum undergoes a $63.5 million renovation. (30 miles from campus)

clemson pretty good comparison. built 1966, $31M renovation in 2003, now doing $63M
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Littlejohn_Coliseum

Renderings & renovation updates:
https://clemsontigers.exposure.co/li...B_OEM_ID=28500

being displaced is the only thing that scares me -- would nutter center accommodate?

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Columbia Blue i wonder if renovations would be done in phases, or could be completed in a single offseason? the last major renovations (2002) were done march - october = concessions, flight deck, boesch lounge i believe notre dame updated the ACC in a single offseason (now purcell pavilion), whereas... During the renovation, Georgia Tech's basketball teams played their 2011–2012 games at Philips Arena or Arena at Gwinnett Center. (25 miles from campus) All of Clemson’s home games will be played in Greenville’s Bon Secours Wellness Arena, the home to Tiger basketball while Littlejohn Coliseum undergoes a $63.5 million renovation. (30 miles from campus) clemson pretty good comparison. built 1966, $31M renovation in 2003, now doing $63M https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Littlejohn_Coliseum Renderings & renovation updates: https://clemsontigers.exposure.co/li...B_OEM_ID=28500 being displaced is the only thing that scares me -- would nutter center accommodate?

About 6,7 years ago, or so, Stanford started demolition of its 80,000 seat FB stadium on a Sunday less than 24 hours after a game with ND....in its place on exactly the same footprint a new ~ 60,000 seat stadium was constructed and ready for the next FB season nine months away. As I recall SU didn't play a home game until October...about ten months from the start of the project. Work was carried out seven days a week. Of course, that cost a lot of extra money which SU has. Nonetheless, that was a very, very big job completed in ten months....not working Sundays may have lengthened the time to one year.

UD does a great job with facilities...but they don't hurry. A project can be fast-tracked for additional cost. Start to finish in about 9-10 months is required so as not to lose a season (The Empire State Bldg was completed in 13 months as I recall.)

[CE80]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer About 6,7 years ago, or so, Stanford started demolition of its 80,000 seat FB stadium on a Sunday less than 24 hours after a game with ND....in its place on exactly the same footprint a new ~ 60,000 seat stadium was constructed and ready for the next FB season nine months away. As I recall SU didn't play a home game until October...about ten months from the start of the project. Work was carried out seven days a week. Of course, that cost a lot of extra money which SU has. Nonetheless, that was a very, very big job completed in ten months....not working Sundays may have lengthened the time to one year. UD does a great job with facilities...but they don't hurry. A project can be fast-tracked for additional cost. Start to finish in about 9-10 months is required so as not to lose a season (The Empire State Bldg was completed in 13 months as I recall.)

Not surprising you don't remember. You were probably still pretty young then.

C'mon UAC you set yourself up for that one.

[The Fly]

I'm surprised improving camera angles isn't on the list. The NCAA makes adjustments for the First Four every year, but we're stuck with nosebleed camera angles for the entire season. I wouldn't mind them sacrificing a few seats to make that improvement. Of course, it could be that's part of what they're talking about in terms of updated technology.

[priceg75]

I wonder if there is an arena that is nearby that we could use temporarily while this might be under construction?

Something that's, you know, about 10-15 miles away and seats maybe... I dunno, 10,000 people. I wonder....

[CE80]

No way they relocate for a year. The lost revenue would be too great. They would break it up an do it over a couple of off seasons if necessary or as UAC points out, they could pay overtime to get it done quicker. Surely the cost would be less then the lost revenue.

[Bill202]

Originally Posted by ud2 What is meant by this? There is accessible seating currently available.

I've also heard there are more requests for handicapped seating that can be accommodated.

[UD_Earl]

Originally Posted by CE80 No way they relocate for a year. The lost revenue would be too great. They would break it up an do it over a couple of off seasons if necessary or as UAC points out, they could pay overtime to get it done quicker. Surely the cost would be less then the lost revenue.

I agree, it probably could be done in 2 off seasons. I am very excited by this. I think it is perfect. Keeping the shell of what makes UD Arena special, but making it a completely modern/up to date Arena. They structured the survey perfectly. I had no idea when I started it that they would pretty much have all of the plans for the renovation complete and ready to display. I made me want to keep clicking through to see what was next. Awesome!

[Chris R]

Okie State renovated Gallagher Iba about 10-15yrs ago from a 5,000-ish seat facility to a 13,000-ish seat facility by basically building right over the top of the existing facility. OSU never moved out during renovations and played a season while construction was ongoing.

Its just engineering. You spend enough money you can do anything.

To me, the biggest natural design flaw of the Arena that has no real "fix" is the low ceiling at center court. You can re-design the corridors and expand egress, but the ceiling is a limitation that's difficult to work around. Its probably what prevents a massive scoreboard/infotainment system from being hung there -- you cant see it from the nosebleeds of the 400 sections and it would hang far too low over the court.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Chris R Okie State renovated Gallagher Iba about 10-15yrs ago from a 5,000-ish seat facility to a 13,000-ish seat facility by basically building right over the top of the existing facility. OSU never moved out during renovations and played a season while construction was ongoing. Its just engineering. You spend enough money you can do anything. To me, the biggest natural design flaw of the Arena that has no real "fix" is the low ceiling at center court. You can re-design the corridors and expand egress, but the ceiling is a limitation that's difficult to work around. Its probably what prevents a massive scoreboard/infotainment system from being hung there -- you cant see it from the nosebleeds of the 400 sections and it would hang far too low over the court.

Why would removing and replacing the existing ceiling/roof be such a big deal as part of a major renovation? Perhaps only the central portion would need to be replaced eliminating or at least softening the "banana shape" that now exists. Put the architectural engineers to work generating options/costs.

It doesn't make sense to spend $15-20 million, let's say, unless all major issues are addressed. For this to make sense, in my opinion, the final renovation design should eliminate all significant problems/issues and come in at a cost no more than ~ 30-35% the cost of a new facility.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Why would removing and replacing the existing ceiling/roof be such a big deal as part of a major renovation? Perhaps only the central portion would need to be replaced eliminating or at least softening the "banana shape" that now exists. Put the architectural engineers to work generating options/costs. It doesn't make sense to spend $15-20 million, let's say, unless all major issues are addressed. For this to make sense, in my opinion, the final renovation design should eliminate all significant problems/issues and come in at a cost no more than ~ 30-35% the cost of a new facility.

Now you are speaking my language - strength of materials, steel design. construction engineering. I am getting excited.

I think reworking the roof could be done but I think it would be major work. If I remember, the roof is held up by a truss. It would be hard to cut out a piece in the middle. I think the solution would be to essentially erect another structure outside the current footprint of the arena and hang a new roof from it. I would bet it has been looked and I bet it would be costly.

[shocka43]

It can be done....create a new skeleton...demo the old skin...add new skin.... Simple right?

[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Are you a donor?

Negative. No idea how or why I got the survey.

[UDEE79]

Easy Peazy:

1 Demolish Welcome
2 Construct UD Arena II on site of Welcome
3 Demolish UD Arena
4 Construct Welcome II on site of UD Arena

[C-time]

Originally Posted by UDEE79 Easy Peazy: 1 Demolish Welcome 2 Construct UD Arena II on site of Welcome 3 Demolish UD Arena 4 Construct Welcome II on site of UD Arena

I completely agree with 1,2, and 3.

My only question is what to exactly do with #4. UD needs a football stadium as do the Dayton Public Schools.

DPS might be better served to have smaller fields at their schools(I don't know the land situation at DPS high schools though), but who knows if they would agree to that even if UD kicked in money to make it possible. Also UD will still need a football stadium. Is it possible to add seating/expand the practice field/track that is adjacent to the baseball field? I think that at least during the construction phase of a new UD Arena that field with temporary seating would meet the needs of both DPS and UD football. Ideally the seating/stadium at that field could be permanently expanded to meet the needs of UD football/DPS football and extra parking would then be available. I realize that the site appears very tight to expand seating at that field, but I think the ideal situation would be to use that field somehow. The main question for a football stadium replacement would be what to make the capacity. The only time Welcome is close to capacity has to be High School playoff games so it could be much smaller than the current Welcome Stadium Capacity.

[sheg]

Random thoughts:

1)There's a wide open empty lot across I-75 that used to be overflow parking for the Arena. Build the football stadium there and free up space in the parking lot.

2) Build a multi-purpose football/soccer/lacrosse field seating about 5,000 on campus.

3) The water table is extremely high at the location. I'm concerned that they'd put nine figures into a major rebuild/renovation only to have a catastrophic flood in the next twenty years.

[UDEE79]

Originally Posted by C-time I completely agree with 1,2, and 3. My only question is what to exactly do with #4. UD needs a football stadium as do the Dayton Public Schools. DPS might be better served to have smaller fields at their schools(I don't know the land situation at DPS high schools though), but who knows if they would agree to that even if UD kicked in money to make it possible. Also UD will still need a football stadium. Is it possible to add seating/expand the practice field/track that is adjacent to the baseball field? I think that at least during the construction phase of a new UD Arena that field with temporary seating would meet the needs of both DPS and UD football. Ideally the seating/stadium at that field could be permanently expanded to meet the needs of UD football/DPS football and extra parking would then be available. I realize that the site appears very tight to expand seating at that field, but I think the ideal situation would be to use that field somehow. The main question for a football stadium replacement would be what to make the capacity. The only time Welcome is close to capacity has to be High School playoff games so it could be much smaller than the current Welcome Stadium Capacity.

That is a great suggestion. Maybe for one or two years UD and the Dayton public schools could use the other area HS football stadiums. Centerville, Wayne, Northmont?, Carroll, Xenia, many more. Just need to get through one or two years. UD could use the new Chaminade stadium maybe.

[UACFlyer]

Why do we want to do this? By, "we" I mean UD. The UD Arena, while almost 50 years old, has undergone renovations over the years. It is not run down. It's better than 85, 90, 95% of the Div 1 BB facilities in the country...and attendance is among the best in the nation.

What's not to like?

UD has been able to attract a large number of NCAA games over the years, including the First Four series. That's nice. But, surely a school doesn't decide to invest tens of millions of dollars so that it can keep an event like the First Four. Even if UD built a brand new state of the art arena there is no guarantee that it will secure the First Four every year given the competition. No matter how good a new facility may be, there will be competing facilities that are just as good or better.

With such thinking in mind, in my opinion, given the solid condition of UD Arena, a new facility is (should be) out of the question. Focus should be on an affordable investment in renovation that addresses shortcomings and makes improvements that will keep the Arena among the best college facilities in the nation for at least 20 years. If we are able to attract NCAA games, fine, that's good. But NCAA games should not be the reason for doing this,...again, in my opinion.

One approach might be to establish a budget up front...a not to exceed amount....$10 million, $15 million, $20 million, whatever. Having done so, priorities are then established to be addressed within the not-to-exceed initial budget figure.

Think of the facilities UD has played regular season games in over the past few years...particularly on-campus facilities owned by private schools. Have any of those facilities been better than the Arena. How about SLU's new building? No doubt there may be a few....but not many.

What matters to the continued success of UD's crown jewel,..men's BB,....is a consistently winning team that's in the Dance regularly. Given that, the facility the games are played in is secondary in the minds of the Faithful.

Again, opinion.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[UD62]

Agree UACflyer, all this talk about a new facility is a pipe dream. UD seems committed to upgrade the Arena, not build a new one. If the survey is to be believed, there is zero talk about building new, except for chatter on the boards.

[Angry John]

Overall, I was displeased that the main purpose of the upgrades was the focus on the high end seating down in the lower Arena. What I fear is that it will cut down on the seating capacity and will ruin the current crowd atmospher and noise, which gives UD a home court advantage. You need as many fans close to the floor to create a ruckous type of environment. Wine sippers in Lodge Boxes do not create that type of environment. I can see some of those lodge boxes in some of the corners or add them into the Time Warner Flight Deck, but their plans go to extremes. I believe many in the UD Administration is out of touch with reality. The City of Dayton has been in decline for the last 16 years and I don't see it turning around in the near future unless major changes take place. I believe the administration is chasing an imaginary corporate dollar that is not here presently in Dayton. Grant it, there are some UD alumni that made tons of money, but 90% of them did not make it in Dayton, Ohio. These types might only come to two to three games a year. This current Administration group has made some recent mistakes and I could see them ruining UD Basketball with there pie in the sky mentality. I am not against some revenue enhancement actions, chasing the corporate, working on donations or improved higher end facilities. There just seems to be a lack of focus on other things such as restroom, concession stand and crowd flow improvements. They could improve the seat view by staggering the seats. If it could be done structurally, try to increase the amount of seating by a 1,000. I fear that this survey is just a dog and pony show and that the Administration will do as it pleases. So much of these types of surveys by institutional groups have turned into this. I would hope I am wrong. There are a lot of smart alumni and fans that have the capability to come up with brilliant ideas. I would hope that the Administration is smart enough to take in some of these ideas. One wrong move by the Administration along with our aging fan base, could send our 13,000 crowd down to 6,000. We got a whiff of that during the late era NIT games during Brian Gregory. We have been selected as a Top 10 Arena recently when it comes to college game day atmosphere. Don't ruin it by going too far with the sterile coorporate approach. Personally, see what the new UD President has to say on this issue too.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[UD62]

Keep those positive thought flowing John

[Atlantic 10]

I agree the whole survey was asking would you upgrade your seating, or join the Time Warner crowd. I love where I sit in the 400s, and the people around me is like family

[ud69]

Angry John -I disagree. I see major improvements to the concessions, restroom, and crowd flow by essentially building an outer ring around the arena for those items and eliminating the inner concourse. It would also seem that the proposed boxes and loges would add capacity by placing those boxes where the concourse now exists and in the corners. It would seem this would push capacity up close to 14k or so. Financially one needs the high rollers to pay for the improvements and still allow reasonably priced tickets in the upper arena - something I believe is important.

I would not be so negative on Dayton. They told Tom Frericks he was crazy to build an arena for 13,500 when the Flyers were only filling up the Fieldhouse with 5,886.

[Angry John]

UD62, I sorry that I am a realist. Now if UD gets in the Big East, then I would be in favor of building a new Arena.

[Angry John]

UD62, Dayton was growing in 1968. It has been declining since 2000. Facts are facts. This has nothing to do with attitude or outlook, just reality. I would be in favor of a massive expansion move if we get into the Big East. You roll the dice then and build a new Arena. I agree there could be lodge boxes in the corners or on the concourse if the crowd flow could be redirected. I just do not want to lose seats in in the lower Arena, because it would kill the atmosphere.

[Lifelong Flyer Fan]

Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 I agree the whole survey was asking would you upgrade your seating, or join the Time Warner crowd. I love where I sit in the 400s, and the people around me is like family

Or, if you are in the lower bowl, how much of an increase would you pay in seat licensing. For my seats, it was double, $100 additional, or $50 additional. I am in the upper corner, the second cheapest spot in the lower arena. I wouldn't mind sitting in the middle 300's , but I don't see any of those opening up. I don't believe there was any mention of instituting a seat license for anywhere in the upper arena and I thought there would be.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by Angry John UD62, I sorry that I am a realist. Now if UD gets in the Big East, then I would be in favor of building a new Arena.

John, you may be sorry but you are far from a realist

[N2663R]

Originally Posted by Angry John Overall, I was displeased that the main purpose of the upgrades was the focus on the high end seating down in the lower Arena. What I fear is that it will cut down on the seating capacity and will ruin the current crowd atmospher and noise, which gives UD a home court advantage. You need as many fans close to the floor to create a ruckous type of environment. Wine sippers in Lodge Boxes do not create that type of environment. I can see some of those lodge boxes in some of the corners or add them into the Time Warner Flight Deck, but their plans go to extremes. I believe many in the UD Administration is out of touch with reality. . . . . . . . . There just seems to be a lack of focus on other things such as restroom, concession stand and crowd flow improvements. They could improve the seat view by staggering the seats. If it could be done structurally, try to increase the amount of seating by a 1,000. I fear that this survey is just a dog and pony show and that the Administration will do as it pleases. So much of these types of surveys by institutional groups have turned into this. I would hope I am wrong. There are a lot of smart alumni and fans that have the capability to come up with brilliant ideas. I would hope that the Administration is smart enough to take in some of these ideas. One wrong move by the Administration along with our aging fan base, could send our 13,000 crowd down to 6,000. We got a whiff of that during the late era NIT games during Brian Gregory. We have been selected as a Top 10 Arena recently when it comes to college game day atmosphere. Don't ruin it by going too far with the sterile coorporate approach. Personally, see what the new UD President has to say on this issue too.

John, you are pretty much 100% correct. (But I would say that any renovation will address restrooms, etc.) I don't live in Dayton any more so I can't speak to the overall economic climate or the availability of disposable income. Only UD knows what the pent up demand is for seats/loges since less that 2%? turnover each year. Regardless, we have a great situation as is. Don't F this up. Finally, you can rest assured that any renovation of any sort is going to start at $10million and go up from there and that means a substantial psl increase for everyone.

[Yorkshire Flyer]

I have to admit that I am more than a little concerned I am going to be priced out of my seats. I see too much of this as a reason to raise ticket prices and seat licenses. I've been a season ticket holder for the past 20 years and I love it soooo much. I afraid it will not continue. I mentioned in the survey that I have sat in the Boesch Lounge and I have been asked several times to sit there again. I've always declined because I just didn't feel part of the crowd. It atmosphere was completely different. My opinion. I'm sure many would enjoy.

[Angry John]

I apologize that I may have pi$$ed on a few individual's Wheaties, but a big reason that the cost of a college education has skyrocketed in price is the massive building projects that have taken place at our nation's colleges. UD was no different. Sure, cheap student loan money from the Federal Government without tuition cost stipulations was the biggest culprit. Many schools started dipping into the general fund to pay for some of the building projects, which set a bad precedent in fiscal responsibility. Sure many campuses along with UD are beautiful, but it came with a cost and that is high tuition rates . I am sorry, the emperor is naked. I am not against building new facilities, but it has to be done at a more measured rate. Too many of my baby boomer bretheran came up with new accounting standards that spit in the face of their parents financial philosophies. This all blew up with the bubbles of 2000 and 2008. Today's students are left holding the bag for these failed accounting philosophies.

[Chris R]

The renderings were nothing but a concept. I wouldnt get too hung up on them. One of the original UD Arena renderings was a circular coliseum that looked like Texas Frank Erwin Center.

The fat cats would be asked to pay their "fair share" so the beer and pretzel crowd will be least inconvenienced. Thats how renovations get done. Thats how the 2.0 renovations got done -- selling Loge and Suites. Nobody ever complains about the loge and suites detracting from UD Arena. But everyone sure likes the Lees Double Dippers now.

[The Price is Wright]

I don't understand why everybody assumes if we built a new arena, it would be the multi-sport design like value city. I say we build the most incredible 18,500 seat basketball centered arena in the world. The Mecca of college basketball if you will. This city, our team, and our fans deserve it. Build it as close to campus as possible. We'll be in the big east in 2 years. Place will be full with some high profile teams coming in.

As Kinky Friedman's campaign slogan said, "why the hell not?"

[jack72]

Originally Posted by The Price is Wright I don't understand why everybody assumes if we built a new arena, it would be the multi-sport design like value city. I say we build the most incredible 18,500 seat basketball centered arena in the world. The Mecca of college basketball if you will. This city, our team, and our fans deserve it. Build it as close to campus as possible. We'll be in the big east in 2 years. Place will be full with some high profile teams coming in. As Kinky Friedman's campaign slogan said, "why the hell not?"

How will it be paid for?

[UD62]

Originally Posted by jack72 How will it be paid for?

Maybe price is right is willing to put up 75-100M, sure would go a long way for his dream arena. At htis point it is clear that the U is headed toward an upgrade of the Arena, not a new facility. Things could change but a new facility seems to be a very long shot, or maybe no shot at all.

[The Price is Wright]

I am willing to put upwards of 700D of my own money to help. What will you guys do if a new arena does get built? Not show up? With your negativity you probably shouldn't. You guys act like UD is struggling for money. They could pay cash for a new building right now.
Posted via Mobile Device

[C-time]

Originally Posted by The Price is Wright I don't understand why everybody assumes if we built a new arena, it would be the multi-sport design like value city. I say we build the most incredible 18,500 seat basketball centered arena in the world. The Mecca of college basketball if you will. This city, our team, and our fans deserve it. Build it as close to campus as possible. We'll be in the big east in 2 years. Place will be full with some high profile teams coming in. As Kinky Friedman's campaign slogan said, "why the hell not?"

We do not need an 18,500 seat basketball arena. Too many empty seats look bad. And the Big East is not expanding because FOX(or any TV network) is not offering up more money for TV rights. The TV rights fees have reached their max value for all the networks because of cord cutting and all the new contracts are going to go down.

Our current capacity is just fine, but if we wanted more seats I think the max would be 15k.

[Angry John]

I like how some people equate common sense and fiscal conservatism with a negative attitude. My guess is these folks are under 50 and do not live in the Dayton area.

[udflyerhoops2]

Originally Posted by The Price is Wright I am willing to put upwards of 700D of my own money to help. What will you guys do if a new arena does get built? Not show up? With your negativity you probably shouldn't. You guys act like UD is struggling for money. They could pay cash for a new building right now. Posted via Mobile Device

It's possible that they could...but they won't. Now is the era of institutional "MORE". As in, How much more can we squeeze out of these people?

They know that now is the time to do it because of the success of the team and the emotional engagement of the fans.

But some of us have to scrimp to find the money as it is. If seat licenses move up any higher, a choice will have to be made. And depending on how much it increases even more sacrifices will have to be made if even possible.

From what I've heard about these possible upgrades, the majority are concerning the high dollar fans. I agree that with more money invested, you should get more perks (closer seats, cushions), but I don't think those perks and advantages should come at the detriment of the non high dollar group. We spend money on concessions and merch too. We just can't afford to drop an extra grand or so on tickets, so we're looked upon as 2nd class fans and not worth the effort.

Unless one or a group of donors show up to finance the upgrades or new construction everyone in at least the 300s will be asked to help foot the bill...and many of them won't be able to.

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by sheg Random thoughts: 3) The water table is extremely high at the location. I'm concerned that they'd put nine figures into a major rebuild/renovation only to have a catastrophic flood in the next twenty years.

Yep! With Global Climate Change and the raising sea levels we need to build based on the inevitable.

[NJFlyr71]

As long as they don't take the airlines route in ticket pricing, fees, and pay for perks' structure, I think everything will be OK.

If you see realignment of the seats like the inside of a plane than all bets are off! We ARE the FLYERS aren't we???

[Justin]

I don't know if this was mentioned yet, but the company who would be doing the renovations is the same company that just finished the University of Michigan's arena upgrades. It's worth a stop on the UM site to see it, very nice and respectful to the UM tradition.

[ud2]

I am just not sure that additional seating capacity is needed if every game is not currently being sold out. Would a new/renovated arena increase demand? I believe that the field house era games were all probably sold out, thus I could see that there was potential additional demand in existence.

[sheg]

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 Yep! With Global Climate Change and the raising sea levels we need to build based on the inevitable.

With a dozen pumps running 24/7/365 to keep the arena from floating down to Miamsburg, it's a very practical matter, regardless of whether you're an Alarmist OR a Denialist (there, I'm appeasing both sides of that stupid debate).

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by ud2 I am just not sure that additional seating capacity is needed if every game is not currently being sold out. Would a new/renovated arena increase demand? I believe that the field house era games were all probably sold out, thus I could see that there was potential additional demand in existence.

The additional seating capacity would not only accommodate additional Flyer fans, it would also allow the University of Dayton to host the fourth and fifth rounds of the NCAA Tournament - great exposure for the University, big bucks for the community.

_____________________
Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

[CE80]

Originally Posted by Glen Clark The additional seating capacity would not only accommodate additional Flyer fans, it would also allow the University of Dayton to host the fourth and fifth rounds of the NCAA Tournament - great exposure for the University, big bucks for the community. _____________________ Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

4th and 5th rounds like every 4 or 5 years?

[GoFlyer]

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 Yep! With Global Climate Change and the raising sea levels we need to build based on the inevitable.

You can laugh all you want, but if you dealt with scientific
FACTS, the water table is a serious concern

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Glen Clark The additional seating capacity would not only accommodate additional Flyer fans, it would also allow the University of Dayton to host the fourth and fifth rounds of the NCAA Tournament - great exposure for the University, big bucks for the community. _____________________ Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

You don't create a design and make an investment of the required scale because it provides an "opportunity" to compete against a few other comparable or even better facilities to host NCAA games.

The primary focus has got to be on what's best to secure the future of the men's and women's basketball teams at the highest level....consistent with common sense financial constraints. If/when that also results in opportunities to host NCAA games as it has in the past...fine.

As the recent past shows clearly, the best "exposure" for our U is when the men's/women's teams are competing successfully in the NCAA tournament on a consistent basis...not when their building is being used by others for NCAA games.

[sheg]

Originally Posted by GoFlyer You can laugh all you want, but if you dealt with scientific FACTS, the water table is a serious concern

Let's keep that kind of discussion out of this. I'm really sorry to have mentioned it. But in the practical reality of UD Arena, the lowest levels of the Arena is BELOW the depth of the GREAT MIAMI RIVER that sits about a fifth of a mile away. Regardless of your thoughts on facts and global water and such, the aquifer at that location is a major league concern. Flooding is a concern there regardless of global climate.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Glen Clark The additional seating capacity would not only accommodate additional Flyer fans, it would also allow the University of Dayton to host the fourth and fifth rounds of the NCAA Tournament - great exposure for the University, big bucks for the community. _____________________ Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

How much additional capacity is needed to be a regional host? Would it be worth it have those additional seats possibly sit empty some/most of the time?

I think a winner is what fills the seats, pro teams with big, nice, fancy facilities don't fill the seats unless they have a winner. There might be an initial surge of demand with a new/renovated facility, due to excitement/interest in seeing the new/renovated facility, but the demand won't be maintained unless the team is a winner.

Cincinnati is renovating the 5/3 Arena, Xavier is renovating the Cintas Center. Seems like everybody in the area is doing renovations right now.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Angry John]

Millet Hall is the facility that needs a face lift.

[ud69]

Originally Posted by Angry John Millet Hall is the facility that needs a face lift.

or demolition

[SeasonTicketFan]

Originally Posted by sheg Let's keep that kind of discussion out of this. I'm really sorry to have mentioned it. But in the practical reality of UD Arena, the lowest levels of the Arena is BELOW the depth of the GREAT MIAMI RIVER that sits about a fifth of a mile away. Regardless of your thoughts on facts and global water and such, the aquifer at that location is a major league concern. Flooding is a concern there regardless of global climate.

Dayton is fortunate to have a great aquifer. During the height of manufacturing days, the water table was not much of concern because of the water used by many producers. Factories used lots of water in the processing.

As manufacturers left the area the water level has risen and risen. It has been a problem for the arena for at least twenty years.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by Bill202 I've also heard there are more requests for handicapped seating that can be accommodated.

Personal experience here: yes, they have problems accommodating all the requests for handicapped seating. I offered to swap some "Upper Corner" seats for handicapped seats for the Alabama game this year. We wanted to take my 85+ year old in-laws to a game, and figured that a weekday afternoon would be our best chance. No dice. The entire allocation of such seats had been spoken for.
Posted via Mobile Device

[66flyer]

I just did the survey. I thought maybe it would ask about opinions on the reconfiguration of seating. It was mostly about the money involved and how much more would I be willing to pay for improvements. I really gulped at the first list, which had me paying double the seat license I am now. Yikes! $700 per seat???? The lower amounts are still more than the $350 I'm paying now.
The problem is, I've been sitting in my 217 row D seat since the '97-'98 season. My husband and I started going to games with his parents in the early 80s with Saturday night package seats and switched to season tickets in '83. We moved from 411 row E to row B, to the back of 311. In the summer of '97 two seats were signed over to me and two to my step-sis when my dad and step-mom moved to FL. We gave up 2 of our 4 upper-level seats and our son and nephew used the other two. My late husband's sister now buys my extra 417 ticket. I give her a "family discount" and that doesn't include the seat license. I hate the thought of moving up again or not going at all. I could swing the extra money, but it's the principle of the thing that bugs me. If the Flyers fall on hard times, winning-wise, it'll be a disaster because nobody will want to pay through the nose for losses. I don't expect that to happen, but I didn't expect them to lose to LaSalle either, lol.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[T-Bone 84]

Took the survey tonight. Some impressive concept work has already been done. That said, I told them I like the seats I already have, and I have no desire to upgrade, though I wouldn't mind paying more for my present seats if it helps the cause. I also said they need to keep the homecourt advantage at least as strong as it is now.
Posted via Mobile Device

[TommyGola]

In regard to seat prices, isn't this the price necessary for success? Shouldn't we be willing to pay more for one of the highest quality venues in the country, not to mention one of the consistently best teams with a top-five coach? Heck yes! I would rather have a seat in the rafters watching a top 25 team than a seat on the floor watching a bottom-feeder with 6,000 fans who paid $5.00 for their seat!

[rollo]

Everything in the survey was exactly as I expected...even the increase in seat licenses...but the question about having to pay a fee in order to 1-time 'transfer of your seats to another family member' caught me by surprise.

So if that's something you're considering, you may as well do it now...even if little Joey is only 7.

[Angry John]

That transfer fee shows the distain the Administration has for some of our older and long time customers. One of the many reasons why UD Arena has such a great atmosphere is that it is family friendly. Again, they would prefer having wine sippers at the risk of empty seats. I would like UD to give an explanation on what their plans are with the extra money. Need fiscal responsibility.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by rollo Everything in the survey was exactly as I expected...even the increase in seat licenses...but the question about having to pay a fee in order to 1-time 'transfer of your seats to another family member' caught me by surprise. So if that's something you're considering, you may as well do it now...even if little Joey is only 7.

Rollo, some schools will not allow transfer to a family member at all. And when the original "seat owner" dies the seat ownership disappears along with him....no matter how long it's been in the family. I am aware of a situation where a family lost its tickets because it was asked to show proof that the original owner was still alive....and he wasn't. Of course, actions like that occur only in programs for which demand exceeds supply.

In the case of the lower bowl at the Arena demand may well exceed supply,...right?

[CoffeeCan]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Rollo, some schools will not allow transfer to a family member at all. And when the original "seat owner" dies the seat ownership disappears along with him....no matter how long it's been in the family. I am aware of a situation where a family lost its tickets because it was asked to show proof that the original owner was still alive....and he wasn't. Of course, actions like that occur only in programs for which demand exceeds supply. In the case of the lower bowl at the Arena demand may well exceed supply,...right?

I think Notre Dame football allows season tickets to be passed to one family member as a one time deal. For example, a 75 year old grandfather can pass them to his 2 year old grandson thus keeping them in the family. But then the tickets can only be renewed in the grandsons name. But in this case it should be another 75 years so that's the way around it.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by CoffeeCan I think Notre Dame football allows season tickets to be passed to one family member as a one time deal. For example, a 75 year old grandfather can pass them to his 2 year old grandson thus keeping them in the family. But then the tickets can only be renewed in the grandsons name. But in this case it should be another 75 years so that's the way around it.

The situation I am aware was, in fact, ND FB TX,...and the exact scenario you describe was not allowed. Think about it: You have 20,000 people on a wait list for TX. Would it make sense...be fair,...to allow a 75 year old guy who has had TX for decades to pass that ownership along to a young family member who could have the TX for many more decades? Combined such family ownership could approach a century even if such a transfer was allowed only once.

Rather than a seat license, I prefer a system that earns donor points that accumulate over years. Of course, the more you give the quicker your points build up. But, if a person has been donating for 10, 20, 30 years and has earned a significant point total...and in later years (or even one or two years) that person decides or has to to cut back on donations, his point total remains intact but grows more slowly. What happens then is his assigned seats gradually become less favorable. Increasing donations later can then improve seat location. Each year the school provides an estimate as to the donation level (number of points) required to maintain approximately the same seats. In fact, that's something you can pretty easily figure out yourself by experience.

The thing I like most about a system like that is it rewards donor loyalty because donor points are cumulative. Just opinion.

[Lifelong Flyer Fan]

Originally Posted by rollo Everything in the survey was exactly as I expected...even the increase in seat licenses...but the question about having to pay a fee in order to 1-time 'transfer of your seats to another family member' caught me by surprise. So if that's something you're considering, you may as well do it now...even if little Joey is only 7.

I remember that section differently. I recall the one time fee to transfer, was to transfer to someone NOT covered by the family rule. The transfer to family rule remains the same. Tried to go back and check, but can't access the survey a second time.

[UD_Earl]

Originally Posted by Angry John That transfer fee shows the distain the Administration has for some of our older and long time customers. One of the many reasons why UD Arena has such a great atmosphere is that it is family friendly. Again, they would prefer having wine sippers at the risk of empty seats. I would like UD to give an explanation on what their plans are with the extra money. Need fiscal responsibility.

Angry John, you posts match your name. I have always found that generally there are 2 types of people in this world, those with the sun on their face and those who stay in the dark. You do not need to be so negative. You do not need to bring class warfare into this. There is no need to disparage anyone - "wine sippers"??? You come off as a very miserable person. I think we all ought to remember that we are all Flyer Fans. We all have our own situations. I believe the University will do the right thing. I think they respect all Flyer Fans, like we all should.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by UD_Earl Angry John, you posts match your name. I have always found that generally there are 2 types of people in this world, those with the sun on their face and those who stay in the dark. You do not need to be so negative. You do not need to bring class warfare into this. There is no need to disparage anyone - "wine sippers"??? You come off as a very miserable person. I think we all ought to remember that we are all Flyer Fans. We all have our own situations. I believe the University will do the right thing. I think they respect all Flyer Fans, like we all should.

That's Sir Angry John to you...and as a member of the Royal Roundtable it is his obligation to speak the truth and nothing but the truth.

All Hail Sir Angry John!!

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan I remember that section differently. I recall the one time fee to transfer, was to transfer to someone NOT covered by the family rule. The transfer to family rule remains the same. Tried to go back and check, but can't access the survey a second time.

That's the way I remember it too. You can pass your tickets to a family member now. The fee is to transfer them to someone who is not a family member.

[marco red eagle]

Beware what you wish for.

The $10k required in 1969 for 2 lower arena red seats would be the equivalent of $64,582 today.

IMO they will ask for this in ADDITION to the annual seat license. I have no inside info but I'm a long time cash supporter who has paid numerous times for better lower arena seats.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Lifelong Flyer Fan]

Originally Posted by marco red eagle Beware what you wish for. The $10k required in 1969 for 2 lower arena red seats would be the equivalent of $64,582 today. IMO they will ask for this in ADDITION to the annual seat license. I have no inside info but I'm a long time cash supporter who has paid numerous times for better lower arena seats. Posted via Mobile Device

Not sure what you are referring to.
They did ask for an opinion about an Arena Associate type program. A one time donation equal to the amount of one year's seat license (paid in addition to the seat license) that you could pay over 5 years.
It was just one of several ways to raise extra $$ and they were asking on each one "would you support it?"

[Angry John]

What is angry about asking for fiscal responsibility or standing up for the well being of long time season ticket holders ? I am not against revenue enhancement or adding some lodge seating as long as it is not extreme or take away from the game day atmosphere. That is not angry, but positive common sense. May my fellow fans that disagree with me have a bright and sunny day.

[NJFlyr71]

Back on topic!

I couldn't find the reference in this thread and it could of been somewhere else but thought that some one made the connection that the consulting company UD is using was used by the U of M for their reno + expansion.
Went to their athletic site and found this ...

In October 2010, ... the first phase of the Crisler Arena renovation plan at a cost of $20 million. In January 2011, the second phase of expansion and renovation was approved .....
The first phase began in March 2011 upon the completion of the basketball seasons. It addressed high priority infrastructure needs such as repairs to the roof, electrical, plumbing and air handling systems. Lower bowl seats were also replaced, with the expansion of seating for people with disabilities, addition of hand rails and other code-related issues. High-definition video scoreboards and premium seating areas were also added.
Phase two added approximately 63,000 gross square feet for new fan entrances, additional retail and ticketing areas, as well as a private club space. Athletic resources and gifts funded the $52 million project. The renovation provides improved seating for people with disabilities and expanded and renovated concourses for additional restrooms, concessions and other fan amenities. All seats throughout the arena were replaced.


Sounds similar to the concepts / thoughts that UD is entertaining. Slightly disconcerting were these figures:

CAPACITY:
13,684 (1967);
13,609 (1968-91);
13,562 (1991-2001);
13,751 (2001-2011);
12,721 (2011-2012);
12,693 (2012-13);
12,707 (2013-present)

I would not like to see the Arena go down in number of seats. They lowered once before after the last reno when they added disability seating. I think around 14,000 is a nice solid # to grow to

To see a picture of the U of M Crisler Center and tour the photo gallery:

http://www.mgoblue.com/facilities/crisler-center.html

[shocka43]

My issue with the whole ball is the issue of increasing seat licenses up to double. Not cool.

The average season ticket holder will see some benefits to seating, concessions, restrooms, ease of access. But the real cost associated with a renovation is the suites/lodges that 99% of STH's will never see any direct benefit from...essentially the long time loyal STH's will simply subsidize improvements that will benefit your HUGE individual donors and companies that can actually afford the amenities.

I take issue with one time family transfers. I believe that families should be treated differently than corporations...where the corporations as long as they exist, can keep tickets forever. Bonbright, Heidleberg, etc...they aren't going anywhere and those seats will remain in their name forever. The best way, and for those of you who have done it, would be to shelter the tickets somehow during a family transfer so they stay put forever.

Money talks and BS walks in the long run. I know of many people, and simply due to status, will never have to worry about working their way down from the 300 or 400's. I know of one situation where an individual who had tickets in the 400's phoned a friend and they end up in the 200's from one season to the next. Reward your loyal Dayton families for generations. Who cares. Their lifetime giving will be much more than the new STH in the upper arena..and if that new STH wants lower bowl tickets, I imagine a donation to athletics will get them that...and that donation won't even be close to the amount that long time STH families have given.

There are a ton of big time programs in the SEC/ACC that have absolutely NO seat license and their gameday ticket price is lower than UD's. I don't care if they have FB funding or not, and SEC/ACC basketball product and/or season long entertainment value, is much greater than an A10 school for less. There are enough donors to UD where a large seat license increase it going to leave a bad taste...

[UD62]

Other than UK, I don't see the game day experience in the SEC to be any better than the experience at UD, in fact probably not as good in most cases.. Now the ACC is a different matter.