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  #201  
Old 11-29-2018, 03:45 PM
CT Flyer CT Flyer is offline
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Originally Posted by ud69 View Post
Eddie Feigner will always be the only King and His Court.

If you remember Eddie you have to be old.
I'm not really old but I did see Eddie pitch against a local all star team that played them. Unfortunately I was a first year player in the league and they did not see it fit to have me on the team so I did not get a chance to bat against him or his younger pitcher (maybe his son) that was even more incredible by that time since Eddie was a bit older then.
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  #202  
Old 11-29-2018, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
In order for it to be a charge, a defender must be set before the offensive player becomes airborn. In case #3 the defender is set and the contact is illegal, albeit petty. Regardless, it’s either a charge or a no-call. I would vote no-call, but you and I know that if it were a UD player getting knocked over, it’s an obvious charge!
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Right or wrong, I have a 95%+ rate of agreeing with the refs on blocks vs. charge in real time. I don't do much right in this arena, but I feel pretty good about this one.

#3 was a no-call, at least from that angle. As we've agreed before, just because someone falls down it doesn't mean the whistle has to blow. That guy just fell down from glancing contact. Maybe from a different angle there was more solid contact, in which case I would have accepted a charge.


But overall I LOVE IT when a ref swallows the whistle on a block/charge with minimally aggressive contact. It's irrational that when a defender stays vertical on his feet there's no call, but if the defender falls down with all other facts equal the whistle must blow.
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  #203  
Old 11-29-2018, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I'm not really old but I did see Eddie pitch against a local all star team that played them. Unfortunately I was a first year player in the league and they did not see it fit to have me on the team so I did not get a chance to bat against him or his younger pitcher (maybe his son) that was even more incredible by that time since Eddie was a bit older then.

My dad and his brother were phenomenal fastpitch players. They both said they never even saw it, they just heard it hit the glove. Until the changeup, and then they looked like Bugs Bunny.
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  #204  
Old 11-29-2018, 04:59 PM
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I love the blind fold and telling you the pitch was a little high and inside! AWESOME!
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  #205  
Old 11-29-2018, 05:50 PM
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Obviously, I do not know the charging rule, but IMO, the rule should be changed.

It is such a cheap move for the defender to step into the path of the offensive player a split second before the offensive player arrives and be able to draw a charge.

IMO, the defender should have to have position and be set for at least a full second before the offensive player arrives, if the defender wants to draw a charge.

Clips 1, 3, and 4 IMO should all be called blocks. And clip #2 was an arm bar/pushoff foul on the offensive player, not a charge.

I guess that I was mistaken, the Wisconsin player only drew 4 charges, not 5.

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  #206  
Old 11-29-2018, 06:03 PM
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Even the ESPN Sportscenter hosts, that came on after the game, thought that the sort of game-deciding clip #4, was a block not a charge.
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  #207  
Old 11-29-2018, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Obviously, I do not know the charging rule, but IMO, the rule should be changed.

It is such a cheap move for the defender to step into the path of the offensive player a split second before the offensive player arrives and be able to draw a charge.

IMO, the defender should have to have position and be set for at least a full second before the offensive player arrives, if the defender wants to draw a charge.

Clips 1, 3, and 4 IMO should all be called blocks. And clip #2 was an arm bar/pushoff foul on the offensive player, not a charge.

I guess that I was mistaken, the Wisconsin player only drew 4 charges, not 5.

I think the opposite. It's everyones strategy in a close game. Just drive in wildly out of control and you get blocking foul.
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  #208  
Old 11-30-2018, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by shwag33 View Post
I think the opposite. It's everyones strategy in a close game. Just drive in wildly out of control and you get blocking foul.

That's why it should be a no-call. Let the guy fly in wildly. Let the defense play defense. If they can make the wild shot good on ya.
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  #209  
Old 11-30-2018, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Obviously, I do not know the charging rule, but IMO, the rule should be changed.

It is such a cheap move for the defender to step into the path of the offensive player a split second before the offensive player arrives and be able to draw a charge.

IMO, the defender should have to have position and be set for at least a full second before the offensive player arrives, if the defender wants to draw a charge.

Clips 1, 3, and 4 IMO should all be called blocks. And clip #2 was an arm bar/pushoff foul on the offensive player, not a charge.

I guess that I was mistaken, the Wisconsin player only drew 4 charges, not 5.
A full second doesn't sound like much time but at a sprint that's probably about 4 steps. Basically, the defender would have to establish position near the basket when the player with the ball was at about the 3 point line.
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  #210  
Old 11-30-2018, 09:46 AM
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A basic rule of thumb - especially in a close, contested game - is that if there is a collision and someone goes down, you must call something!

The reasoning for this goes way beyond rule interpretation and into game/crowd/coach management. A ****-poor official, hell bent on not calling a flop, may set himself and his partners up for threatening situations by standing on principles instead of common sense.

You've seen the crazy videos of people storming the court, kids throwing punches, coaches instigating threats against officials on the news...and I've been in some crazy games myself. Each instance of this only re-emphasizes that my A#1 responsibility is to myself, my partners and game management. If anyone forgets that simple premise, and decides to go rouge and invite chaos by ignoring marginal contact, I have little mercy for them.

Game management...in many cases it's more important than the rules.
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  #211  
Old 11-30-2018, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Bucketnight View Post
A full second doesn't sound like much time but at a sprint that's probably about 4 steps. Basically, the defender would have to establish position near the basket when the player with the ball was at about the 3 point line.
Fair enough, maybe a little less than a second then, but this business of stepping right in front of the offensive player and drawing a charge is nonsense and needs to stop. It's ridiculous, it is not legitimate defense.

All of these plays happen very fast, I will leave it up to the judgment of the officials, but the definition of having position and being set needs to change.
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  #212  
Old 11-30-2018, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
That's why it should be a no-call. Let the guy fly in wildly. Let the defense play defense. If they can make the wild shot good on ya.
Exactly...I think the officials can recognize the difference between a legitimate blocking foul and an out-of-control dribble driver looking to get a call. Call a charge on the dribble driver is he/she is out of control and just looking to get a call.

Last edited by ud2; 11-30-2018 at 11:18 AM..
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  #213  
Old 11-30-2018, 11:46 AM
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Have you ever watched a girls basketball game??? UGH!

Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Exactly...I think the officials can recognize the difference between a legitimate blocking foul and an out-of-control dribble driver looking to get a call. Call a charge on the dribble driver is he/she is out of control and just looking to get a call.
Do you think before you type?? You just advocated that if someone loses control of their dribble, any defender within reach can now cut them off, initiate contact and benefit from it. Full contact basketball...That's a great idea!!!
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  #214  
Old 11-30-2018, 01:13 PM
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This thread is totally derailed.
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  #215  
Old 11-30-2018, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
This thread is totally derailed.
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Old 11-30-2018, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
A basic rule of thumb - especially in a close, contested game - is that if there is a collision and someone goes down, you must call something!

The reasoning for this goes way beyond rule interpretation and into game/crowd/coach management. A ****-poor official, hell bent on not calling a flop, may set himself and his partners up for threatening situations by standing on principles instead of common sense.

You've seen the crazy videos of people storming the court, kids throwing punches, coaches instigating threats against officials on the news...and I've been in some crazy games myself. Each instance of this only re-emphasizes that my A#1 responsibility is to myself, my partners and game management. If anyone forgets that simple premise, and decides to go rouge and invite chaos by ignoring marginal contact, I have little mercy for them.

Game management...in many cases it's more important than the rules.
"Guys, we've got a problem. This team--every time they play, the parents and fans are totally out of control. To the point that they might do something that would endanger people's safety."

"What do we do?"

"I've got a plan. What we'll do is call the game correctly for 3 quarters. Then, in the 4th quarter, we'll totally change the way we're calling the game. "

"Won't that just confuse them and make the even MORE angry?"

"No, you're missing the point. You see this way, they will know that we hear their abusive screaming and it will placate them. They'll know their voice is being heard. And that's what every person wants. They'll know they are impacting the outcome of the game despite having no actual knowledge. And that's what every parent wants."

"But won't that just encourage them to be even MORE obnoxious the next time??"

"No, you see, we'll discourage their obnoxious behavior by antagonizing them. How do you not see that?? And then the next time, they'll quietly observe the games with relative indifference because they know they don't have to start yelling at the opening tip to get our attention, they will feel empowered to influence the game on short notice any time it's needed. It's basic psychology."

OK, if you say so. I may be in the minority but I'd rather see strikes called strikes, fouls called fouls, and when someone does something that endangers player safety they get kicked out.

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  #217  
Old 11-30-2018, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
This thread is totally derailed.

This same thread will go on until March. Are you in a hurry to get somewhere?
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  #218  
Old 11-30-2018, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
"Guys, we've got a problem. This team--every time they play, the parents and fans are totally out of control. To the point that they might do something that would endanger people's safety."

"What do we do?"

"I've got a plan. What we'll do is call the game correctly for 3 quarters. Then, in the 4th quarter, we'll totally change the way we're calling the game. "

"Won't that just confuse them and make the even MORE angry?"

"No, you're missing the point. You see this way, they will know that we hear their abusive screaming and it will placate them. They'll know their voice is being heard. And that's what every person wants. They'll know they are impacting the outcome of the game despite having no actual knowledge. And that's what every parent wants."

"But won't that just encourage them to be even MORE obnoxious the next time??"

"No, you see, we'll discourage their obnoxious behavior by antagonizing them. How do you not see that?? And then the next time, they'll quietly observe the games with relative indifference because they know they don't have to start yelling at the opening tip to get our attention, they will feel empowered to influence the game on short notice any time it's needed. It's basic psychology."

OK, if you say so. I may be in the minority but I'd rather see strikes called strikes, fouls called fouls, and when someone does something that endangers player safety they get kicked out.
So you have been to a GWOC game in the far eastern part of the Miami Valley?
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  #219  
Old 11-30-2018, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Do you think before you type?? You just advocated that if someone loses control of their dribble, any defender within reach can now cut them off, initiate contact and benefit from it. Full contact basketball...That's a great idea!!!
Sheesh, I never said anything like that. Such a ridiculous post by you. I'm starting to wonder if your reffing license needs to be revoked because you are totally irrational sometimes.

Take off your ref glasses for once and stop defending the refs under any circumstances like you always do. These are garbage charging calls, and the rule needs to change.
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Old 11-30-2018, 04:01 PM
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Pitt Duquesne will be interesting tonight. Pitt's already knocked off St. Louis in a close game
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  #221  
Old 11-30-2018, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
So you have been to a GWOC game in the far eastern part of the Miami Valley?

No, and I'm willing to admit I've never worn the stripes, which is why I say "if you say so."

However, there is a lot of logic in the research that says foxes are better prognosticators than hedgehogs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hedgehog_and_the_Fox

Basically, if you devote all of your time to studying a single thing (hedgehog) you risk getting buried behind a wall of assumptions, which is why "recognized experts" so often get things wrong and are not necessarily the best voice to listen to.
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Old 11-30-2018, 04:19 PM
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Old 12-03-2018, 02:49 PM
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Old 12-03-2018, 02:59 PM
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Was at URI v. Providence game on Saturday. Not a very good game and made me feel a bit better about our own lack of offensive prowess as both teams struggled on that end of the floor. It also made me feel a lot better about our free throw shooting as both teams were terrible.

URI had trouble getting Dowtin any looks (good or otherwise) unless he was running the point. They did have some success getting the ball in to Langevine who can be a load when he gets it down there.

I was one that thought those two players would be enough to carry URI to be back near the top of the A10 this year but after seeing that game I'm not sure they have enough other pieces to be a top half team in the A10. I hope I'm wrong because we have them twice and it would be nice if they were a top tier team.
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Old 12-04-2018, 09:56 AM
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I was looking at the university of Detroit Mercy’s basketball schedule. From a fan perspective, the schedule makes sense. Detroit plays a whole host of colleges in the regional area. This makes sense. This makes more sense than Dayton’s far flung schedule of teams scattered geographically with some of the schools that common folks have never heard of before. But, I will bow to the experts. The only non-conference schedule that makes sense is the one that gets you qualified for an entry into the NCAA tournament. But, still from a fan base, playing schools all around Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky and Pennsylvania seems to make more fan interest.
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
I was looking at the university of Detroit Mercy’s basketball schedule. From a fan perspective, the schedule makes sense. Detroit plays a whole host of colleges in the regional area. This makes sense. This makes more sense than Dayton’s far flung schedule of teams scattered geographically with some of the schools that common folks have never heard of before. But, I will bow to the experts. The only non-conference schedule that makes sense is the one that gets you qualified for an entry into the NCAA tournament. But, still from a fan base, playing schools all around Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky and Pennsylvania seems to make more fan interest.
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I disagree. As a fan, I would rather play teams out of region that we never get to see than be stuck playing the same teams in the region.

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  #227  
Old 12-04-2018, 10:18 AM
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Titans play 7 MAC schools, Hard to see a great deal of fan interest for this schedule year in and year out. Although I would agree that most, if not all, of our buy games are less than compelling.
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Titans play 7 MAC schools, Hard to see a great deal of fan interest for this schedule year in and year out. Although I would agree that most, if not all, of our buy games are less than compelling.
Most of our buy games have been teams who finished at the top, or at least in the top 2 or 3 of their conference, so they did not hurt our RPI and if anything they helped. Schedule 7 games against the MAC, and you are guaranteed some dead weight on the schedule.
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Old 12-04-2018, 11:41 AM
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Well this is next year but ...
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Cincinnati will face Iowa and Dayton will face Colorado in a doubleheader at the United Center on 12/21/19, per release.
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Old 12-04-2018, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
I was looking at the university of Detroit Mercy’s basketball schedule. From a fan perspective, the schedule makes sense. Detroit plays a whole host of colleges in the regional area. This makes sense. This makes more sense than Dayton’s far flung schedule of teams scattered geographically with some of the schools that common folks have never heard of before. But, I will bow to the experts. The only non-conference schedule that makes sense is the one that gets you qualified for an entry into the NCAA tournament. But, still from a fan base, playing schools all around Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky and Pennsylvania seems to make more fan interest.
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I'd like to see more local teams - tOSU, X, UC, UK, Louisville, Indiana, Butler, Michigan, Michigan St, Pitt, WVa. Not a big MAC schedule! Since we can't get the local teams I'd like to see, we need to continue to include a much larger geographic area.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill202 View Post
I'd like to see more local teams - tOSU, X, UC, UK, Louisville, Indiana, Butler, Michigan, Michigan St, Pitt, WVa. Not a big MAC schedule! Since we can't get the local teams I'd like to see, we need to continue to include a much larger geographic area.
If I had my druthers, I would pick: Notre Dame, DePaul, Marquette and Xavier. Along with Cincinnati and Miami of Ohio.

But, clearly, if this was possible, it would have been done long ago.
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Old 12-04-2018, 01:21 PM
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If I see another ref wait until a shot is missed and rebounded to call a consolation prize foul that somewhere between "calling nothing and rolling the dice with an and-1", I'm going to lose my temper. It's either a foul when its committed or it's not. Cant be a little bit pregnant.
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Old 12-04-2018, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
I was looking at the university of Detroit Mercy’s basketball schedule. From a fan perspective, the schedule makes sense. Detroit plays a whole host of colleges in the regional area. This makes sense. This makes more sense than Dayton’s far flung schedule of teams scattered geographically with some of the schools that common folks have never heard of before. But, I will bow to the experts. The only non-conference schedule that makes sense is the one that gets you qualified for an entry into the NCAA tournament. But, still from a fan base, playing schools all around Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky and Pennsylvania seems to make more fan interest.
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I'd rather play P5 schools from anywhere, vs detroit mercy.... No one gets up for detroit mercy because they are close.

Like others said, if it's relevant local D1 programs sure but they wont come to dayton.
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Old 12-04-2018, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
Well this is next year but ...
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Cincinnati will face Iowa and Dayton will face Colorado in a doubleheader at the United Center on 12/21/19, per release.
McKinley Wright...great stats last year and this year...we missed out on him...great player.

http://m.espn.com/ncb/playerstats?playerId=4278507

14p, 5r, and 6a per game last year and this year.
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Old 12-04-2018, 02:42 PM
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Agree MW is a good one. We landed on our feet with JC, 13 ppg, 3 rpg and 6apg.
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Old 12-04-2018, 03:06 PM
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We didn't miss out on him, we offered and landed him. He backed out and went to Colorado. Good luck to Wright, I'm sure he is a good kid, but I like JC better, he chose to be a Flyer.
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  #237  
Old 12-04-2018, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
If I see another ref wait until a shot is missed and rebounded to call a consolation prize foul that somewhere between "calling nothing and rolling the dice with an and-1", I'm going to lose my temper. It's either a foul when its committed or it's not. Cant be a little bit pregnant.
But they did prove in the Princess Bride that you could be "mostly dead".
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  #238  
Old 12-04-2018, 03:51 PM
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Fouls are 'situational', not pregnant

Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
If I see another ref wait until a shot is missed and rebounded to call a consolation prize foul that somewhere between "calling nothing and rolling the dice with an and-1", I'm going to lose my temper. It's either a foul when its committed or it's not. Cant be a little bit pregnant.
C'mon Sir Chris R...you know better than this! Soccer officials don't call contact based on contact, they call it on 'advantage' and/or safety. Basketball is no different...some contact is a foul...that same contact in a different situation may not be a foul.

Example: I'm doing a varsity boys game last night. Joe does an awesome crossover dribble at the FT line and fakes his defender out of his rolled up shorts! The defender tries to reach for the dribble and missed, hitting Joe in the leg as he drives (unopposed) to the basket for a layup.

Should King Rollo the Ref of Integrity call that contact and stop play knowing neither the coach or player wants it called as they'd rather have the basket? Or is this play - as you put it - "a little bit pregnant" meaning it should be called a foul 100% of the time???

As I've stated a million times, I attend a lot of meetings. We have a few topics that are always discussed (block/charge, traveling...) including the dreaded phrase 'let them play thru it' meaning that if the contact in question doesn't affect the play, let it go.

If the defender above trips the dribbler, it's a foul. If he injures the dribbler, it's a foul. If he forces the dribbler to hop-step and he then loses the dribble or it's stolen, it's a foul. But in many cases, immediately calling the contact a 'foul' is unnecessary (for lack of a better term).

Officials (of any sport) who operate in a vacuum are doing themselves, their partners and the game they love no favors. As a umpire, if the count is 3-0 I have been known to call a pitch that's 3" outside a strike...as a soccer official I have ignored high kicks at midfield if the defenders are backing off...

It's called 'discretion' and I know it's a fine line, but it's a fact of all sports and if you think about it - or ever decide to become an official yourself - I know you'll all agree. I'm not saying you'll all like it...just that you'll agree.

Or quit after the first game...

King Rollo the Semi-Pregnant! OUT!
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Old 12-04-2018, 04:15 PM
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FWIW, on Saturday (CYO) I had a kid shoot past his defender on the right wing...the defender reached and bumped the dribbler who had a clear path to the basket...I swallowed my whistle and the kid missed the layup. Yeah, I caught some heat and felt bad, but it's not my fault the kid missed the shot that I basically gave him.

FWIW II, my partner missed a call on Sunday (Metro). Kid pulls down an offensive rebound and fakes up. The defender who was behind him jumped up on the fake and his chest landed on the offensive player's back enough to justify a foul, but the offensive player - unfazed - brushed off the contact and went up for the uncontested layup...and missed! The defense got the rebound and took off down court. The coach was not happy and I understand why...but the kid missed an uncontested layup than I guarantee he wanted the kid to make more than he wanted the foul (on the floor, no FTs) called...which is always the case. The next dead ball my partner was upset with himself for not calling the foul, but he did exactly what we're taught...in certain situations, it's best to let the player play thru the contact!

FWIW III, in rare situations (late in a close game) where I let the kid play thru contact and they miss the shot, I have come in with a late whistle and when confronted as to why I didn't call it immediately I simply apologize and 'admit' that my whistle fell out of my mouth when I tried to blow the play dead...oops...and it took me a second to get it back in my mouth!

What I'd rather say is "Sh*t happens...get over it" but that wouldn't be very regal of me now, would it?
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:09 PM
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One thing I hated when I was coaching was when there was a foul somewhere out top of the circle but my kid kept possession of the ball and the ref didn't call anything. When I complain he says there was no advantage/disadvantage, your kid still kept possession of the ball so the foul didn't need to be called. I then retort that would have been their 7th foul so we would have been shooting one and one so don't tell me there was no advantage disadvantage. Oh and to boot that would have been their stud point guards fourth foul. If its a foul its a foul!
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
One thing I hated when I was coaching was when there was a foul somewhere out top of the circle but my kid kept possession of the ball and the ref didn't call anything. When I complain he says there was no advantage/disadvantage, your kid still kept possession of the ball so the foul didn't need to be called. I then retort that would have been their 7th foul so we would have been shooting one and one so don't tell me there was no advantage disadvantage. Oh and to boot that would have been their stud point guards fourth foul. If its a foul its a foul!
In other words, it's situational...and you knew it, but the ref didn't. That stuff drives me nuts!
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:26 PM
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To me every foul is an advantage disadvantage. If it's a foul at the beginning of the game it's a foul at the end. If its a foul when you lose control, it's a foul when you maintain it. If not called the same throughout, the players and fans will be confused and angry.
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Old 12-04-2018, 11:34 PM
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Fordham loses at 0-8 Maine in double OT

Holy Cross wins at UMass

Davidson beats Winthrop

#25 Furman(!!) goes to 9-0 at Elon

Bucknell drops LaSalle to 0-9

Oklahoma beats Notre Dame

New Mexico St. is going to beat New Mexico by 40+. Not long ago we were playing the Lobos in meaningful OOC games.

Indiana beats Penn St. by 2

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Old 12-04-2018, 11:45 PM
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Clemson's leading scorer Marcquise Reed probably tore his ACL in a 5 point win over St. Peter's.

His backup transferred after the first game of the season.

They're in trouble.
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Fordham loses at 0-8 Maine in double OT

Holy Cross wins at UMass

Davidson beats Winthrop

#25 Furman(!!) goes to 9-0 at Elon

Bucknell drops LaSalle to 0-9

Oklahoma beats Notre Dame

New Mexico St. is going to beat New Mexico by 40+. Not long ago we were playing the Lobos in meaningful OOC games.

Indiana beats Penn St. by 2
Saw some of those on the ticker at the Arena tonight. Just wanted to bury my head in my hands. What a fustercluck the A10 is this year! No outstanding teams, but several good ones, and several dumpster fires. Geez, Louise!
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  #246  
Old 12-05-2018, 11:05 AM
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Someone want to explain to me how a 3-3 URI team can have a 24 RPI with stunning victories over Harvard, Brown, and Bryant, while our 5-3 Flyers are at 132?

I get that it’s early in the season, but other teams (Oklahoma, Butler, Miss St) seem to be fairly ranked based on their record/schedule.

http://realtimerpi.com/ncaab/college...rankings3.html
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  #247  
Old 12-05-2018, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
Someone want to explain to me how a 3-3 URI team can have a 24 RPI with stunning victories over Harvard, Brown, and Bryant, while our 5-3 Flyers are at 132?

I get that it’s early in the season, but other teams (Oklahoma, Butler, Miss St) seem to be fairly ranked based on their record/schedule.

http://realtimerpi.com/ncaab/college...rankings3.html
Those are power rankings, not rpi...rpi is UD 113 URI 115.


http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_atl10_Men.html
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:09 PM
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Detroit Mercy falls to Toledo 101-57.

Atlantic 10 finally having an excellent night. With VCU up 54-53 at Texas with a minute to go. We need VCU.
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:15 PM
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VCU wins it on road in Austin.
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:18 PM
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SLU loses at So. Illinois

Bona crushes Siena

GW squeaks past Towson

Duquesne over Marshall

St. Joe's wins at Princeton

Richmond beats Coppin St.

VCU shoots 28% and wins at Texas. Shaka's seat is getting warm.

Ohio State beats Illinois in Chicago

Butler beats Brown

Tulsa beats Okie St. by 3

IPFW also by 3 over Akron

Miami O sinks a 3 at the buzzer to beat Wright State
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach View Post
Detroit Mercy falls to Toledo 101-57.

Atlantic 10 finally having an excellent night. With VCU up 54-53 at Texas with a minute to go. We need VCU.

Nice road win for VCU. Texas loses its third game in a row, including home losses to Radford and VCU in front of a half-empty arena. VCU shot under 30% from the field and still won. Shaka Smart continues to underperform at Texas as I predicted on this board a few years ago. Now in his fourth season, Shaka is 55-53 at Texas with no NCAA Tournament wins. His team was very lucky to make the Tournament last season with a losing conference record.
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach View Post
VCU wins it on road in Austin.
Great win for VCU and the A-10. Final 54-53 as Texas does not capitalize on last possession with 6.6 seconds remaining. Should have gone inside to 6-11 center, Jaxson Hayes, from Moeller High School, instead settled for a three pointer and missed!
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:30 PM
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No smart coach would ever leave the VCU Head job for completely football oriented school like Texas.

Oh, oops I just remember some one else did that same kind of thing.
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach View Post
No smart coach would ever leave the VCU Head job for completely football oriented school like Texas.

Oh, oops I just remember some one else did that same kind of thing.

Indeed, seems like pretty much every VCU coach does that. These guys should take a few cues from Mark Few.
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
Nice road win for VCU. Texas loses its third game in a row, including home losses to Radford and VCU in front of a half-empty arena. VCU shot under 30% from the field and still won. Shaka Smart continues to underperform at Texas as I predicted on this board a few years ago. Now in his fourth season, Shaka is 55-53 at Texas with no NCAA Tournament wins. His team was very lucky to make the Tournament last season with a losing conference record.
True, but you have to remember that UT lost on a last second three quarter court shot. That was a decent team that had some capability and Northern Illinois was a good team that year, only losing by 4 to #3 seed Texas A&M.

Plus, Texas hasn't ever really had much success in the NCAA tournament, best most recent showing was 2008. So it's not like Shaka took the program down much from where it was. But yeah, it is a football school so you get what you get.
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Old 12-06-2018, 05:37 AM
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Shaka can coach decently, but he has made huge recruiting mistakes. In an attempt to play with the big guys, he is taken high ranked players over basketball players. The collective IQ of the TX team is lower than the gang at Willy's bar. I watched last night, and several games, and that team does not like each other or their coach. There is zero team chemistry.

Down one last night with the last shot, the point guard, in previous years an excellent player and great scorer, drives to the basket, suddenly stops in the lane and pitches it back to a covered guy who launches up a brick three. That game, their season and Shaka's tenure in a nutshell.
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  #257  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:12 AM
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UT under Rick Barnes had some of the same maladies. It seems to be in UT's DNA to recruit NBA level athletes that are in the games strictly for themselves and leave early for an NBA shot. There is an all star team in the NBA right now of former UT players, but the school has nothing to show for it.
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Old 12-06-2018, 10:28 AM
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Watched Tulsa beat OSU Cowboys last night. Tulsa game will be a good indicator of where we are. Of course a win against Auburn would be even more of an indicator
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  #259  
Old 12-06-2018, 01:43 PM
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Watched the first half of the Gonzaga - Washington game last night. Washington kept it close, only lost by 2; not sure how, they were getting completely outplayed in the 1st half (though the score was relatively close as well when I was paying attention). Anyhoo, our old friend, and former recruit Nazir (?) Carter (You know Jay-Z's nephews, or should I say Beyonce's nephew ) comes off the bench for Washington. Washington had a ton of foul trouble early in the game, and he got an extended run, unfortunately he did not impress at all. He airballed his only shot, a 3 pointer or perhaps long 2, can't remember for sure and frankly if he wasn't a former UD commit, I wouldn't have even noticed him, he did next to nothing; looked completely inactive. Checked the box score this morning, and saw that he got 11 minutes, only took that same 1 shot and didn't account for much else. Seems like a kid that will be lost in the shuffle sooner than later, IIRC he was really young for his grade, perhaps sitting out a season as a transfer would due his game a world of good.
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
If not called the same throughout, the players and fans will be confused and angry.
It's easy to be confused and angry when you don't know the rules, and 99% of fans and 100% of coaches not only don't know the rules, they don't want to know the rules...they just want to sound powerful, knowledgeable and holier-than-thou. And I say that with 100% confidence.

I study, apply and discuss the rules regularly and still struggle with them...as do my partners. So at least I'm trying. The typical loudmouth - like I had to shut up at a SDK game on Sunday - I see/hear weekly will never affect a call FOR his team...but might hurt them.
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Old 12-06-2018, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
Plus, Texas hasn't ever really had much success in the NCAA tournament

Final Four in 2003, Sweet Sixteen in 2004, Elite Eight in 2006 and 2008, and wins in 2009, 2011, and 2014.

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
So it's not like Shaka took the program down much from where it was.

I doubt that “not taking the program down much” is what Texas had in mind when they fired Barnes and hired Shaka.
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Old 12-06-2018, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
C'mon Sir Chris R...you know better than this! Soccer officials don't call contact based on contact, they call it on 'advantage' and/or safety. Basketball is no different...some contact is a foul...that same contact in a different situation may not be a foul.

Example: I'm doing a varsity boys game last night. Joe does an awesome crossover dribble at the FT line and fakes his defender out of his rolled up shorts! The defender tries to reach for the dribble and missed, hitting Joe in the leg as he drives (unopposed) to the basket for a layup.

Should King Rollo the Ref of Integrity call that contact and stop play knowing neither the coach or player wants it called as they'd rather have the basket? Or is this play - as you put it - "a little bit pregnant" meaning it should be called a foul 100% of the time???

As I've stated a million times, I attend a lot of meetings. We have a few topics that are always discussed (block/charge, traveling...) including the dreaded phrase 'let them play thru it' meaning that if the contact in question doesn't affect the play, let it go.

If the defender above trips the dribbler, it's a foul. If he injures the dribbler, it's a foul. If he forces the dribbler to hop-step and he then loses the dribble or it's stolen, it's a foul. But in many cases, immediately calling the contact a 'foul' is unnecessary (for lack of a better term).

Officials (of any sport) who operate in a vacuum are doing themselves, their partners and the game they love no favors. As a umpire, if the count is 3-0 I have been known to call a pitch that's 3" outside a strike...as a soccer official I have ignored high kicks at midfield if the defenders are backing off...

It's called 'discretion' and I know it's a fine line, but it's a fact of all sports and if you think about it - or ever decide to become an official yourself - I know you'll all agree. I'm not saying you'll all like it...just that you'll agree.

Or quit after the first game...

King Rollo the Semi-Pregnant! OUT!
Rollo, I think I can confidently say those were in no way what Chris was talking about. You chose not to call a foul because, as a judgement call, it was either trivial to the game or the player who was fouled would have been DISadvantaged by your whistle. Play on for 1/2 a second and that decision is clearly over and decisively made: now the kid misses the layup you granted him by NOT blowing the whistle. What Chris is saying is it drives him nuts when the ref decides to retroactively blow the whistle and give the the player who missed the layup a retroactive advantage. You might as well say "I missed a call for you in the first half, so since you missed this layup I'll blow the whistle." The decision is over, you chose not to call it, now it's up to the kid to make the layup. If he missed the layup BECAUSE of the foul, blow the whistle.

Originally Posted by rollo View Post
FWIW, on Saturday (CYO) I had a kid shoot past his defender on the right wing...the defender reached and bumped the dribbler who had a clear path to the basket...I swallowed my whistle and the kid missed the layup. Yeah, I caught some heat and felt bad, but it's not my fault the kid missed the shot that I basically gave him.

FWIW II, my partner missed a call on Sunday (Metro). Kid pulls down an offensive rebound and fakes up. The defender who was behind him jumped up on the fake and his chest landed on the offensive player's back enough to justify a foul, but the offensive player - unfazed - brushed off the contact and went up for the uncontested layup...and missed! The defense got the rebound and took off down court. The coach was not happy and I understand why...but the kid missed an uncontested layup than I guarantee he wanted the kid to make more than he wanted the foul (on the floor, no FTs) called...which is always the case. The next dead ball my partner was upset with himself for not calling the foul, but he did exactly what we're taught...in certain situations, it's best to let the player play thru the contact!

FWIW III, in rare situations (late in a close game) where I let the kid play thru contact and they miss the shot, I have come in with a late whistle and when confronted as to why I didn't call it immediately I simply apologize and 'admit' that my whistle fell out of my mouth when I tried to blow the play dead...oops...and it took me a second to get it back in my mouth!

What I'd rather say is "Sh*t happens...get over it" but that wouldn't be very regal of me now, would it?
Speaking as a former point guard, it used to drive me nuts when a guy would foul me at half court trying to steal the ball but then I recovered it, yet the ref let it go because it "didn't affect the play." Except that it does, because the defender now knows he turned the dial to 3 and didn't get called, so next he'll go for the steal by turning the dial to 4 with no penalty. Then 5. I keep getting hacked and the defender gets more and more bold. Then he hammers me and the ref, who can't see everything, misses it. Reverse skate.

But if you called a foul a foul from the start then the defender plays defense with his feet instead of his hands.

Bob Huggins would love you as a ref, his entire defense hinges on getting away with gradually fouling more and more all game long. If you foul on every play the refs surely won't call all of them.

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  #263  
Old 12-06-2018, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
Final Four in 2003, Sweet Sixteen in 2004, Elite Eight in 2006 and 2008, and wins in 2009, 2011, and 2014.
Yes, the last big success they had was 10 years ago. Single wins as a decent seed aren't big successes.

I doubt that “not taking the program down much” is what Texas had in mind when they fired Barnes and hired Shaka.
Of course not, but the school puts little effort into basketball. Football is King there and the only thing that matters.
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:44 PM
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If Mo Bamba hadn't gone pro after 1 season, Shocka would be King in Austin. Matta encountered the same phenomenon at tOSU...if a couple one-and-done players just give you 2 years, you're job and salary are safe. It only takes 1 (DeAngelo Russell at tOSU) to come out of nowhere and leave the roster depleted. At the time they entered campus, neither Russell or Bamba were considered 1-and-dones. Bad example, but how different would My Flyers be if Kostas hung around 1 more season??

Duke, UK, KU, etc... get away with it because they have 4 or 5 every year...Texas and tOSU want these types of players but can't refill their positions fast enough to maintain momentum.
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  #265  
Old 12-06-2018, 08:36 PM
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If Shocka didn't know Bamba was a one-and-done, that would make two people that didn't know ... Shocka and Rollo.
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  #266  
Old 12-06-2018, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Bob Huggins would love you as a ref, his entire defense hinges on getting away with gradually fouling more and more all game long. If you foul on every play the refs surely won't call all of them.
Pitino's d too...constantly up in your grill the entire game bumping/pushing/hand-checking and intimidating and disrupting you. And the refs don't call a lot of those fouls either.

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Old 12-07-2018, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Pitino's d too...constantly up in your grill the entire game bumping/pushing/hand-checking and intimidating and disrupting you. And the refs don't call a lot of those fouls either.
Don’t forget the godfather of it all, John Thompson, and the Georgetown Hoyas of the 1980s. They’d start out the games with a bump here, and a slap there, just daring the refs to call it all (and face the wrath of the man-mountain of a coach). Their whole game was built around intimidation. And sadly, their only NCAA Championship came the year they had the thug Michael Graham playing for them, validating intimidation as a coaching tactic. I remember being there when he laid-out Sedric Toney in Pauley Pavilion in the Elite Eight game in 1984. B@stard! It took every last bit of self-control for me to not charge the court and tackle his @ss.
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:52 PM
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Umass just took a 1 point lead over Providence with 2:00 left after trailing by 20.
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:00 PM
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Umass wins by 1. Most exciting part was Cooley chasing officials off the floor over a no call on Providence's shot at the buzzer. Classic Ed.
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:05 AM
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I stand by a statement of three weeks ago...the BE is over-rated as a conference.
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Lowd&ProUD View Post
If Shocka didn't know Bamba was a one-and-done, that would make two people that didn't know ... Shocka and Rollo.

Shocka43 knew, but Shaka had no clue.
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by IndianaFlyer View Post
Umass wins by 1. Most exciting part was Cooley chasing officials off the floor over a no call on Providence's shot at the buzzer. Classic Ed.
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And it was a great no call...after watching the replay it was a lot closer to a charge than a block but given the time in the game a great no call.
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by IndianaFlyer View Post
Umass wins by 1. Most exciting part was Cooley chasing officials off the floor over a no call on Providence's shot at the buzzer. Classic Ed.
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Providence played just like us and let Pipkins run wild. Hope we’ll consider playing a little defense against him this year.
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  #274  
Old 12-08-2018, 02:03 PM
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Even though it was played at Providence, Ed's complaint was that the game was like a home game for UMass since they were only 90 minutes away.
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  #275  
Old 12-08-2018, 02:38 PM
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Oklahoma taking Wichita State behind the woodshed and having their way with them. Our losses are nothing to hang our heads about.
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  #276  
Old 12-08-2018, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CJ2etc View Post
Oklahoma taking Wichita State behind the woodshed and having their way with them. Our losses are nothing to hang our heads about.
I want every opponents to win every game they play, except for our game.
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  #277  
Old 12-08-2018, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
Even though it was played at Providence, Ed's complaint was that the game was like a home game for UMass since they were only 90 minutes away.
Hmmmm...where have I heard that before...?
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Old 12-08-2018, 04:56 PM
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Cincinnati 62
Eggsavier 47

Carry on. Go Bearcats.
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Old 12-08-2018, 05:05 PM
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It is a great day when both UK and XU lose. Now time for a flyer victory!
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Old 12-08-2018, 06:41 PM
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Also Archie and Indiana nip Louisville and Mack.
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  #281  
Old 12-08-2018, 07:02 PM
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Mississippi State beats Clemson by 11.

They shot 19-30 from 3 in the game.
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Old 12-08-2018, 07:40 PM
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Unfortunately for the A10
Buffalo pounds the Bonnies into submission at hom 80-62
Villanova over St. Joes 70-58
Valparaiso over GW 82-79
Penn over La Salle 80 -65 at La Salle

On the plus column
Fordham over Rutgers
Rhody over Holy Cross

Another bad day for the A10. Here's hoping our Flyers pick up the league tonight.
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
I stand by a statement of three weeks ago...the BE is over-rated as a conference.
As of right now 730 PM on 12/8/18 Big East #3 in conference RPI

Seton Hall (the worst RPI team in the Big East) wins at #9 Kentucky
Marquette knocks off #12 Wisconsin.

Do not see how you, and many others including the national media, keep saying the Big East is over rated.
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  #284  
Old 12-08-2018, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt View Post
Cincinnati 62
Eggsavier 47

Carry on. Go Bearcats.
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Lowest X point total ever in a Shootout? Congrats to UC's d.

UC still having trouble scoring though.

And not sure if X coach Steele is a good coach, X's offense looks sort of like streetball. And X is down double digits trying to mount a comeback today, but Steele decides to leave his best 3 point shooter, Welage, on the bench?

Last edited by ud2; 12-08-2018 at 08:45 PM..
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
As of right now 730 PM on 12/8/18 Big East #3 in conference RPI

Seton Hall (the worst RPI team in the Big East) wins at #9 Kentucky
Marquette knocks off #12 Wisconsin.

Do not see how you, and many others including the national media, keep saying the Big East is over rated.

Exactly, and sadly we would be near the bottom of the BE. We belong in the A10.
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:45 PM
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Tulsa knocks off #16 KSU. That will be a tough game, and a critical game in our growth.
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Exactly, and sadly we would be near the bottom of the BE. We belong in the A10.
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Really? I'm surprised you feel that way. While we've not done enough to earn an invite, I think we'd elevate our recruiting and our program and be just fine in the BE. I think we'd be destined to be a top half program most years.
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  #288  
Old 12-09-2018, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Lowest X point total ever in a Shootout? Congrats to UC's d.

UC still having trouble scoring though.

And not sure if X coach Steele is a good coach, X's offense looks sort of like streetball. And X is down double digits trying to mount a comeback today, but Steele decides to leave his best 3 point shooter, Welage, on the bench?
Musties are now 6-4 on the season, and the stats from today’s game are atrocious. Will be interesting to watch from afar, to see where their season goes from here.
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Old 12-09-2018, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Lowest X point total ever in a Shootout? Congrats to UC's d.

UC still having trouble scoring though.

And not sure if X coach Steele is a good coach, X's offense looks sort of like streetball. And X is down double digits trying to mount a comeback today, but Steele decides to leave his best 3 point shooter, Welage, on the bench?
So maybe automatically hiring one of the current assistants to replace the head coach may not be the best way to go?
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  #290  
Old 12-09-2018, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
So maybe automatically hiring one of the current assistants to replace the head coach may not be the best way to go?
Too early to tell.
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Old 12-09-2018, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Musties are now 6-4 on the season, and the stats from today’s game are atrocious. Will be interesting to watch from afar, to see where their season goes from here.
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47 points is not a record for either side, multiple instances on both sides of lower scores.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cros...ootout#Results


Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
So maybe automatically hiring one of the current assistants to replace the head coach may not be the best way to go?
Fair enough, but Steele does not have a track record to judge him with. I have seen what Grant had to offer at other schools, and I was not interested. I would not have even interviewed Grant or considered him at all unfortunately. I was looking for someone who would do as well as or better than Archie, going backwards is not an acceptable outcome to me.

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Old 12-09-2018, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
47 points is not a record for either side, multiple instances on both sides of lower scores.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosstown_Shootout




Fair enough, but Steele does not have a track record to judge him with. I have seen what Grant had to offer at other schools, and I was not interested. I would not have even interviewed Grant or considered him at all unfortunately. I was looking for someone who would do as well as or better than Archie, going backwards is not an acceptable outcome to me.
Well thankfully for the Flyer program and the vast majority of the fanbase, you had nothing to do with the hiring process.
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  #293  
Old 12-09-2018, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post

Fair enough, but Steele does not have a track record to judge him with. I have seen what Grant had to offer at other schools, and I was not interested. I would not have even interviewed Grant or considered him at all unfortunately. I was looking for someone who would do as well as or better than Archie, going backwards is not an acceptable outcome to me.
Don't change the argument. It's not about AG. You were so certain the X way of promoting an assistant was the way to go. Now, 9 games in, you are ready to kick him to the side. I know SeasonTicketFan that it is too early to judge Steele. I also know that it is a cr@p shoot hiring any head coach. Circumstances are always different. What p!sses me off the most is "expert" fans that are so quick to judge what is wrong but really can't offer a definitive better solution - because there can't be one.
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  #294  
Old 12-09-2018, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
47 points is not a record for either side, multiple instances on both sides of lower scores.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cros...ootout#Results

The issue isn’t how many points were scored. The issues are how bad they looked scoring them, and the fact that their record is now 6-4. And yes, I know it’s way too early to judge Steele. Heck, we gave Archie 2-1/2 years and a 1-6 Conference record before the pitchforks and torches came out en masse. I imagine the powers that be in Mouseketeer land will give him at least 2 years, unless the wheels fall completely off the X-Mobile before then. It’s just that this is the “games of note” thread, and a game involving 2 teams that we’ve played around 200 times combined makes that a “game of note”. And considering the storyline of _avier blackballing UD to keep us out of the NBE, yes, Dr. Schadenfreude is a friend of mine.


Fair enough, but Steele does not have a track record to judge him with. I have seen what Grant had to offer at other schools, and I was not interested. I would not have even interviewed Grant or considered him at all unfortunately. I was looking for someone who would do as well as or better than Archie, going backwards is not an acceptable outcome to me.
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  #295  
Old 12-09-2018, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
47 points is not a record for either side, multiple instances on both sides of lower scores.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cros...ootout#Results
The issue isn’t how many points were scored. The issues are how bad they looked scoring them, and the fact that their record is now 6-4. And yes, I know it’s way too early to judge Steele. Heck, we gave Archie 2-1/2 years and a 1-6 Conference record before the pitchforks and torches came out en masse. I imagine the powers that be in Mouseketeer land will give him at least 2 years, unless the wheels fall completely off the X-Mobile before then. It’s just that this is the “games of note” thread, and a game involving 2 teams that we’ve played around 200 times combined makes that a “game of note”. And considering the storyline of _avier blackballing UD to keep us out of the NBE, yes, Dr. Schadenfreude is a friend of mine.

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  #296  
Old 12-09-2018, 05:11 PM
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Virginia beats VCU by 8 in a bricklayers convention. Both teams shot 29.5%. I watched the entire game, and yes there was some good defense on both sides, but the shooting was awful. VCU is beatable. UVA does not compare to Auburn based on the two times I have seen them. In fact UVA does not look like a top 10 team.
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Old 12-09-2018, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Virginia beats VCU by 8 in a bricklayers convention. Both teams shot 29.5%. I watched the entire game, and yes there was some good defense on both sides, but the shooting was awful. VCU is beatable. UVA does not compare to Auburn based on the two times I have seen them. In fact UVA does not look like a top 10 team.
I agree. Auburn is a much quicker, more athletic, and overall better team. Those to guards are just dynamite and would run circles around Virginia's guards.
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  #298  
Old 12-09-2018, 10:11 PM
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The biggest problem with hoops today is that there are
too many refs with the Rollo approach.....no harm, no foul.
Where is that listed as an option in rule book. A foul
is a foul......period.
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  #299  
Old 12-09-2018, 10:35 PM
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Fred Hoiberg just got fired from the Chicago Bulls. I always thought that he was a great college coach and was puzzled that he went for the dollar signs to become an NBA coach. I think someone at a university somewhere will hire Hoiberg and get a great coach.

He played at Iowa State and coached at Iowa State.

He played in the NBA at Indiana Pacers, Chicago Bulls and Minnesota Timberwolves. Then was an admin guy at Minnesota Timberwolves before coaching at Iowa State (his alma mater) and then the Chicago Bulls.

So, he is a guy like Anthony Grant who returned to his school to be the head coach.
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  #300  
Old 12-10-2018, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Exactly, and sadly we would be near the bottom of the BE. We belong in the A10.
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Who cares, we're not in the Big East, we're not going to be in the Big East.

Let's all just enjoy Xavier having a down year for once.

And work on winning some games of our own.
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