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  #101  
Old 05-14-2020, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
As someone who speaks to the largest banks and research institutions on a daily basis, I'll just say this: when someone says we're shutting down the economy to "save" lives, that person has either a willful or unintentional misunderstanding of what that means. We are, most likely, "trading" lives. Not just the relatively small number of suicides and homicides, but more importantly the potential for outright global starvation.

We're most likely trading lives saved today for lives lost tomorrow. Nobody knows how many we're saving today, and how many we're sacrificing tomorrow, so I'm not saying it's necessarily the wrong call to make. I'm just saying, if you're one of those people, stop saying "saving" and start saying "trading".

And if you're counting on a very fast vaccine or treatment to stop the tradeoff of those future lives, that's OK, you do you. Just admit to yourself that your strategy is "hope." I hope you're right.
Excellent post. You said it a lot better than I did previously, but there are many studies regarding what the damage will be globally as a result of the economic shutdown. This includes loss of life, starvation and increased illness. That’s why I get ticked when I hear someone say by opening back up we are somehow sacrificing lives. No, we are offsetting one risk for another.
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  #102  
Old 05-14-2020, 05:04 PM
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@JonRothstein
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The Atlantic 10 will regionalize and condense conference schedules by 25 percent in field hockey, volleyball, men's soccer, women's soccer, baseball, softball, and women's lacrosse, per release.

Another effect of coronavirus.
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  #103  
Old 05-14-2020, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
@JonRothstein
·
3h
The Atlantic 10 will regionalize and condense conference schedules by 25 percent in field hockey, volleyball, men's soccer, women's soccer, baseball, softball, and women's lacrosse, per release.

Another effect of coronavirus.
I wonder if UD will attempt to make up these games with local, non conference games. I also wonder if it is just for this year or if this might be a new normal.

For Volleyball, at least, I can see where they would schedule a 3 or 4 team round robin tournament to reduce travel costs.
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  #104  
Old 05-14-2020, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 View Post
Businesses are open, do you see any that are truly thriving?
I see Meijer, Kroger, Speedway, Home Depot, Lowes are always busy by my home... and you will be waiting in line to get in at some.

My wife's hair stylists just opened, and it booked till the end of June.

I go carry-out at Chipolte and BW's, and they have tons of people rolling in and out.

So yeah the businesses I see open are doing quite well.
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  #105  
Old 05-14-2020, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
As someone who speaks to the largest banks and research institutions on a daily basis, I'll just say this: when someone says we're shutting down the economy to "save" lives, that person has either a willful or unintentional misunderstanding of what that means. We are, most likely, "trading" lives. Not just the relatively small number of suicides and homicides, but more importantly the potential for outright global starvation.

We're most likely trading lives saved today for lives lost tomorrow. Nobody knows how many we're saving today, and how many we're sacrificing tomorrow, so I'm not saying it's necessarily the wrong call to make. I'm just saying, if you're one of those people, stop saying "saving" and start saying "trading".

And if you're counting on a very fast vaccine or treatment to stop the tradeoff of those future lives, that's OK, you do you. Just admit to yourself that your strategy is "hope." I hope you're right.
I agree.

Speaking of trading....a year from now, watch how 2020 had a dramatic drop in deaths due to heart attacks, COPD, diabetes, and other issues compared to 2019, and how those same categories in 2021 remarkably track to 2019.

I have a son in the medical world, trust me, many deaths are being called “Coronavirus” that are not.
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  #106  
Old 05-14-2020, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 View Post
I'm open to other evidence, polls are only a snapshot in time but they are still solid evidence if it utilizes appropriate methodology. Businesses are open, do you see any that are truly thriving? I'm just using the data I have available today. Anecdotally where I live, a lot of restaurants can open but are remaining closed or sticking with takeout only because they are not making money by opening up like they had in the past.
Every business open that people utilize in their spare time is thriving. Home improvement, restaurant carry out, grocery stores...packed...every time I have been to one.

Restaurants can't survive on carry out only. They need alcohol sales, etc. The ones open for carry out are simply trying to pay bills and keep people off of unemployment to the greatest extent possible. Servers aren't making a dime. It's the owners and front of house managers, combined with the cooks, that are simply open to pay rent and keep the electric and other monthly bills paid.

The ones that are deciding on opening up for patio service or at 50% aren't opening/not opening due to COVID fears. They are doing it based on dollars...that's it. They can't run at 50% occupancy. They don't make any money. They are built and staffed to run at top occupancy for top profits. Restaurants at 50% occupancy don't stay in business long.
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  #107  
Old 05-14-2020, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Every business open that people utilize in their spare time is thriving. Home improvement, restaurant carry out, grocery stores...packed...every time I have been to one.

Restaurants can't survive on carry out only. They need alcohol sales, etc. The ones open for carry out are simply trying to pay bills and keep people off of unemployment to the greatest extent possible. Servers aren't making a dime. It's the owners and front of house managers, combined with the cooks, that are simply open to pay rent and keep the electric and other monthly bills paid.

The ones that are deciding on opening up for patio service or at 50% aren't opening/not opening due to COVID fears. They are doing it based on dollars...that's it. They can't run at 50% occupancy. They don't make any money. They are built and staffed to run at top occupancy for top profits. Restaurants at 50% occupancy don't stay in business long.
And starting tomorrow, you’ll get the jackwagons who will sit at a table for 3 hours while the wait to be seated extends to 2 hours. In their mind, they finally get to spend time with their friends so they’ll stay as long as they want...screw everyone else waiting. Then they’ll leave a 10-15% tip...

Don’t be a jackwagon...
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  #108  
Old 05-15-2020, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
I agree.

Speaking of trading....a year from now, watch how 2020 had a dramatic drop in deaths due to heart attacks, COPD, diabetes, and other issues compared to 2019, and how those same categories in 2021 remarkably track to 2019.

I have a son in the medical world, trust me, many deaths are being called “Coronavirus” that are not.

If you're bored, go look up the death rates in the US AFTER the Spanish flu. They didn't spike up, and then return to the pre-flu death rates. They spiked, troughed, and THEN returned to the longer term trend. Why? Because it (tragically) pulled forward many people who were likely to die of something over the next 24 months, and then the remaining population was stronger / less likely to die after the flu passed, and then the death rate climbed back up to normal after a few years.
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  #109  
Old 05-15-2020, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
If you're bored, go look up the death rates in the US AFTER the Spanish flu. They didn't spike up, and then return to the pre-flu death rates. They spiked, troughed, and THEN returned to the longer term trend. Why? Because it (tragically) pulled forward many people who were likely to die of something over the next 24 months, and then the remaining population was stronger / less likely to die after the flu passed, and then the death rate climbed back up to normal after a few years.
Agree 100%. The MSM as usual has this all wrong. Testing every day proves nothing unless you're trying to isolate and track a specific exposure line. A histogram of deaths by age shows that mostly, over 60 is the biggest threat (like 95% of all deaths or higher). We need to start using common sense and quit throwing trillions of dollars at propping up the economy and just OPEN the economy up with common sense restrictions. Yes I'm still bitter about this season...
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  #110  
Old 05-15-2020, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
@JonRothstein
·
3h
The Atlantic 10 will regionalize and condense conference schedules by 25 percent in field hockey, volleyball, men's soccer, women's soccer, baseball, softball, and women's lacrosse, per release.

Another effect of coronavirus.
A10 news release

Also only the top 4 teams will be in the tournaments for those sports (minus field hockey).

Also, the pairings for men's and women's basketball will be released in the next week.
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  #111  
Old 05-16-2020, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I think, at least in my circles, there are plenty of people that feel comfortable going out . . .
Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel View Post
I stopped reading after "Most polls show"...

I stopped reading after " . . . at least in my circles . . ."

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  #112  
Old 05-16-2020, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark View Post
I stopped reading after " . . . at least in my circles . . ."

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  #113  
Old 05-16-2020, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark View Post
I stopped reading after " . . . at least in my circles . . ."

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  #114  
Old 05-16-2020, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
If you're bored, go look up the death rates in the US AFTER the Spanish flu. They didn't spike up, and then return to the pre-flu death rates. They spiked, troughed, and THEN returned to the longer term trend. Why? Because it (tragically) pulled forward many people who were likely to die of something over the next 24 months, and then the remaining population was stronger / less likely to die after the flu passed, and then the death rate climbed back up to normal after a few years.
Not saying your mortality rate assumption is wrong but I think it is the type of use of data that shouldn't just be accepted at face value. In this case, the Spanish Flu mortality rate was much different to this pandemic in that the mortality rate of people 15-40 was comparatively much higher. I'm not saying that disproves the "pull forward" theory but it certainly should be factored in to a discussion of the impact.

The argument that mortality rates are viewed in "pull forward" way is interesting in a way. The same argument could be made regarding seat belts.

That being said I am for a controlled opening in most areas. I went furniture shopping with my wife last weekend and didn't dread it nearly as much as I would have 6 months ago. Everyone we encountered was respectful of social distancing and it worked fine.
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  #115  
Old 05-16-2020, 01:24 PM
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I hope UD administrators are reading threads like these and will then require future classes in statistics and data analysis. I can only hope quotes like "whose science?" come from non-UD grads. The blatant misrepresentation of models by various talking heads is embarrassing. All models are wrong, but only some are useful (George Box). Of course projected outputs change, when you change the model inputs.

The mere fact that this is a debate is a sad reflection of the politicization of evidence, and the death of expertise. My favorite quote from my child's pediatrician's office...don't confuse your 10 minute google search with my 10 years of medical training. Politicians and posters on this forum would do well to heed this advice.
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  #116  
Old 05-16-2020, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123 View Post
A10 news release

Also only the top 4 teams will be in the tournaments for those sports (minus field hockey).
How much money could this possibly save? It feels like they are trimming peanuts here.
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  #117  
Old 05-16-2020, 04:09 PM
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Research process in the 21st century. Start with your conclusion and then search for any data that supports that conclusion.

Last edited by UD62; 05-17-2020 at 09:44 AM..
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Old 05-16-2020, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by vonde009 View Post
I hope UD administrators are reading threads like these and will then require future classes in statistics and data analysis. I can only hope quotes like "whose science?" come from non-UD grads. The blatant misrepresentation of models by various talking heads is embarrassing. All models are wrong, but only some are useful (George Box). Of course projected outputs change, when you change the model inputs.

The mere fact that this is a debate is a sad reflection of the politicization of evidence, and the death of expertise. My favorite quote from my child's pediatrician's office...don't confuse your 10 minute google search with my 10 years of medical training. Politicians and posters on this forum would do well to heed this advice.
Here is a good blog post by someone whom I trust on advanced analytics

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/avoid...19-bill-franks
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  #119  
Old 05-16-2020, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Why? The people I interact with aren't good enough for you?

The people you interact with are hardly a basis for forming a coherent coronavirus response policy. "Let the businesses open and if you are one that does not feel comfortable then do not go out, but if you are comfortable then go out." is a recipe for disaster unless social distancing and other precautionary measures (masks) are taken. Otherwise your willingness to risk a nasty illness may end up putting other people you come in contact with at risk.

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  #120  
Old 05-16-2020, 11:30 PM
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Truthfully, I am confused by the whole mask thing. Fauci in early March said not to use them. Surgeon General in early March and again in late March said not to use them. I was told they lied in order to keep mask usage down allowing for more masks in the medical field. How then do we know they are truthful now? Also read a small study in South Korea which showed no significant difference in the spread of the virus when an infected patient coughed with and without a mask.

My job, a 12 hour shift, requires them, so I wear one. After that many hours they become ill-fitting, and I am readjusting often. This constant touching of the face cannot be good, but what else can I do? Wear it on my chin?

I'm not so much one side or the other, just want the truth, but have a hard time believing anything. Now they are saying it was in Miami County in January. You would think that by March, with no intervention, this virus would have been widespread. An outbreak at Dayton's final game on March 7 would not have surprised me. The lack of social distancing even had me uneasy. Yet, nothing. It was another six weeks before they suggested masks.

Let's open more things up, watch all cases closely while also ensuring all rights are protected, and hopefully this fall can be normal again.
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  #121  
Old 05-17-2020, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
Truthfully, I am confused by the whole mask thing. Fauci in early March said not to use them. Surgeon General in early March and again in late March said not to use them. I was told they lied in order to keep mask usage down allowing for more masks in the medical field. How then do we know they are truthful now? Also read a small study in South Korea which showed no significant difference in the spread of the virus when an infected patient coughed with and without a mask.

My job, a 12 hour shift, requires them, so I wear one. After that many hours they become ill-fitting, and I am readjusting often. This constant touching of the face cannot be good, but what else can I do? Wear it on my chin?

I'm not so much one side or the other, just want the truth, but have a hard time believing anything. Now they are saying it was in Miami County in January. You would think that by March, with no intervention, this virus would have been widespread. An outbreak at Dayton's final game on March 7 would not have surprised me. The lack of social distancing even had me uneasy. Yet, nothing. It was another six weeks before they suggested masks.

Let's open more things up, watch all cases closely while also ensuring all rights are protected, and hopefully this fall can be normal again.


I think initially they lied to everyone saying they don't matter because they knew that there would be a huge rush on them. They need them from the medical community.

How much they work is up for debate, but they have to help. I mean just watch someone talk in sunlight, you can see how much spit comes out of their mouth. The masks definitely limit things coming out of your mouth and getting on other surfaces.
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  #122  
Old 05-17-2020, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by shwag33 View Post
I think initially they lied to everyone saying they don't matter because they knew that there would be a huge rush on them. They need them from the medical community.

How much they work is up for debate, but they have to help. I mean just watch someone talk in sunlight, you can see how much spit comes out of their mouth. The masks definitely limit things coming out of your mouth and getting on other surfaces.
There was a massive run on latex/nitrile/vinyl exam gloves over the last few months, I have a friend who needs to use them on a daily basis for medical reasons, and they were almost impossible to get anywhere: Costco was out, Harbor Freight donated all of theirs to hospitals/medical centers, none of the sites on the internet had any available, but we have found a few places locally and on the internet that are now starting to get resupplied. Fortunately, my friend had enough to get by with her reserve supply while this was all happening. There was a big run on baby wipes/body cleaning wipes too, but that shortage was not as severe as the gloves shortage. And of course toilet paper and bleach, that everybody uses, were also wiped out when this all started, but those are both mostly resupplied now.

Last edited by ud2; 05-17-2020 at 09:49 AM..
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Old 05-17-2020, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by shwag33 View Post
I think initially they lied to everyone saying they don't matter because they knew that there would be a huge rush on them. They need them from the medical community.

How much they work is up for debate, but they have to help.
Ditto toilet paper.
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark View Post
The people you interact with are hardly a basis for forming a coherent coronavirus response policy. "Let the businesses open and if you are one that does not feel comfortable then do not go out, but if you are comfortable then go out." is a recipe for disaster unless social distancing and other precautionary measures (masks) are taken. Otherwise your willingness to risk a nasty illness may end up putting other people you come in contact with at risk.

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So this is the line I was referring to: "And demand won't return to many sectors until people feel comfortable going out and being around other people. And that won't happen until you manage the health crisis." I was simply stating that I think there are many people that I interact with who do feel comfortable. I also feel like the health crisis is being managed with social distancing measures. So therefore I am comfortable going back out with the measures in, place as are many other people that I interact with. If you and the people you interact with do not feel the same that is certainly your opinion. The governor in my state has started to open things back up, including outdoor dining, so she obviously feels comfortable with it too, so I am following my government's lead. I have already read articles in my state (RI) that some restaurants that had been closed, are now reopening because they think the amount of business is going to worth it to them now.
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Old 05-17-2020, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
. . . I also feel like the health crisis is being managed with social distancing measures. . .

There's the problem. As entertainment venues have been re-opening in Ohio - bars & restaurants were allowed to re-open their outdoor seating as of last Wednesday - social distancing has been widely disregarded. The enforcement of social distancing rules lies with the local health departments, which are woefully unprepared to enforce said rules. Count me among those who will be staying well away from any such gatherings.
Bottom line: re-opening businesses is not going to re-open the economy - that process will take years.

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Old 05-17-2020, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark View Post
Bottom line: re-opening businesses is not going to re-open the economy - that process will take years.

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Pretty sure its a step in making it happen.
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  #127  
Old 05-18-2020, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Bucketnight View Post
The argument that mortality rates are viewed in "pull forward" way is interesting in a way. The same argument could be made regarding seat belts.
Really not trying to prolong the debate here, but no, it really can't. Otherwise healthy adults who are killed by a drunk driver running a stop sign are not at all the same thing as frail elderly who were teetering over the edge and it was just a matter of what would be the nudge. Unless you're saying the only people who die in car accidents are non-seat belted people who were likely to die of something else in the very near future.
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Old 05-18-2020, 09:13 AM
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Moderna announces positive Phase 1, and started Phase 2 for a vaccine. The huge push to get a vaccine quickly, it is America's #1 priority, may be the game changer. Never developed any vaccine in under 5 years, but this huge push may make this different.

Tests are great, but are mostly just a confirmation for some and a dog whistle for the media and others. A vaccine, or the virus burning out, are the only root cause solutions.
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Old 05-18-2020, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark View Post
There's the problem. As entertainment venues have been re-opening in Ohio - bars & restaurants were allowed to re-open their outdoor seating as of last Wednesday - social distancing has been widely disregarded. The enforcement of social distancing rules lies with the local health departments, which are woefully unprepared to enforce said rules. Count me among those who will be staying well away from any such gatherings.
Bottom line: re-opening businesses is not going to re-open the economy - that process will take years.

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That's why this country is so great, I can feel one way about a situation and react to it as I want (i.e. going out while following social distancing procedures) and you can feel one way about the same situation and react to it as you want (i.e. staying away).

Bottom line: Not re-opening businesses is not going to re-open the economy either.
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Old 05-18-2020, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark View Post
There's the problem. As entertainment venues have been re-opening in Ohio - bars & restaurants were allowed to re-open their outdoor seating as of last Wednesday - social distancing has been widely disregarded. The enforcement of social distancing rules lies with the local health departments, which are woefully unprepared to enforce said rules. Count me among those who will be staying well away from any such gatherings.
Bottom line: re-opening businesses is not going to re-open the economy - that process will take years.

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Glen - any really anyone else who is not comfortable with the whole "reopening" - what will it take for you to feel comfortable? I am very serious because there are many people that feel like you do. Is it a specific data point(s)? Is it a vaccine? Is it enough guinea pigs out there going to get haircuts, going to bars and restaurants with no serious consequences? Is it simply time?
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  #131  
Old 05-18-2020, 12:46 PM
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I guess I also would like to know what the "comfortable" tipping point is? So as to gain a better understanding. I have friends who feel the way Glen does. Or is it purely political?
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Old 05-18-2020, 01:48 PM
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Can't speak for Glen,


But I get the impression that many people are ready to return to some sense of normalcy. Even those that were the strongest socially distancing early on are loosening up a bit now. People that I knew that were completely isolated w/ their family are now out and a bout a bit and in some cases with very little difference than what i saw from them 6 months ago.


another interesting observation from the weekend. I've been to Lowe's a lot the last 5 weeks. Had to get those key essentials, like mulch, flowers, a new flag, trimmer, etc.... things I couldn't live without From what I've observed, most are buying most of the similar items. Mulch is nice and all, but hardly essential. Anyhoo, needed to pick up 4 additional bags of mulch on saturday, so I pull up and the parking lot is as crowded as ever, and I noticed the outdoor area isles for checking out were as longer than I've seen them. I almost turned around and left, rather than sit in the line but decided, perhaps I'd go inside and see what the lines were like there. Much shorter lines, took about 10 min maybe to check out, vs what I'm guessing was a 30 min wait to check out outside based upon prior experiences. The check out procedure was significantly more "covid safe" than it was even 2 weeks ago. Wiped down the table b/w every user. Heck, I didn't even use the counter, other than the CC machine. Just told them I needed 4 bags of mulch, she punched it in, I paid, she wiped down the counter that she had wiped down after the prior customer and on I went. They had someone directing traffic inside for the line leading into the register area.


Now I assume these are all part of the essential "reopening" guidelines. But they are noticeably more stringent than what I noticed prior to the curve flattening. perhaps its all worth it, perhaps not. But I found it interesting.
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Old 05-18-2020, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Really not trying to prolong the debate here, but no, it really can't. Otherwise healthy adults who are killed by a drunk driver running a stop sign are not at all the same thing as frail elderly who were teetering over the edge and it was just a matter of what would be the nudge. Unless you're saying the only people who die in car accidents are non-seat belted people who were likely to die of something else in the very near future.
Prolong it or change it?

The full point was that your original assumption of mortality rates didn't seem to allow for the large spike in the mortality rate of young people in the data set you used. If you look back at my full post, I specifically stated I wasn't saying the correlation was incorrect. Your use of the available data to form the conclusion was... lacking. The seat belt comment was just a contextual observation that there are many instances that death could be considered pulled forward.

Maybe not the best example; more likely just not explained properly since it really wasn't the point of the post.
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Old 05-18-2020, 10:40 PM
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Back to College sports news...BGSU announced it has eliminated baseball immediately. Whether it truly is Covid-19 related or just an excuse to kill the sport at BGSU depends on who you ask.

There is no doubt budgets are tighter. If the MAC schools don’t get the 1 or 2 football game paydays With games against P5 schools, it will even get tighter for their budgets.
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Old 05-19-2020, 09:16 AM
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East Carolina just announced they will be eliminating some sports due to budget shortfalls. They already projected a $7 million shortfall, and now $10 million with the virus.

Furman has eliminated baseball.
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Old 05-19-2020, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Back to College sports news...BGSU announced it has eliminated baseball immediately. Whether it truly is Covid-19 related or just an excuse to kill the sport at BGSU depends on who you ask.

There is no doubt budgets are tighter. If the MAC schools don’t get the 1 or 2 football game paydays With games against P5 schools, it will even get tighter for their budgets.
The other problem created for the Mac by not being able to play these money making games is it will hit their attendance numbers. I believe they had a sweetheart deal with the Big Ten to where they could count those games on their attendance records to bring their averages up.
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Old 05-19-2020, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyerferd View Post
The other problem created for the Mac by not being able to play these money making games is it will hit their attendance numbers. I believe they had a sweetheart deal with the Big Ten to where they could count those games on their attendance records to bring their averages up.
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Gotta believe some deal exists. Miami doesn't draw flies for football yet somehow hit the 15,000 mark to stay D-1.
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Old 05-21-2020, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Glen - any really anyone else who is not comfortable with the whole "reopening" - what will it take for you to feel comfortable? I am very serious because there are many people that feel like you do. Is it a specific data point(s)? Is it a vaccine? Is it enough guinea pigs out there going to get haircuts, going to bars and restaurants with no serious consequences? Is it simply time?

My wife and I will not be going to any bar or restaurant that doesn't support social distancing until new cases are approaching zero locally or a vaccine is developed. We wear masks when we shop and wash our hands religiously as soon as we come home.

Originally Posted by Clear Prop View Post
I guess I also would like to know what the "comfortable" tipping point is? So as to gain a better understanding. I have friends who feel the way Glen does. Or is it purely political?

Politics should have nothing to do with a pandemic, but sadly it does: look no further than "It's a Democratic hoax!"
We have scheduled a Danube River cruise this September/October that has not been cancelled (yet) and coronavirus numbers are looking good in Austria and Germany, so there is hope that we may still go. In the meantime, we are saving a lot of money staying out of bars and restaurants.

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  #139  
Old 05-21-2020, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyerferd View Post
The other problem created for the Mac by not being able to play these money making games is it will hit their attendance numbers. I believe they had a sweetheart deal with the Big Ten to where they could count those games on their attendance records to bring their averages up.
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They backed off enforcing the 15K number
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Old 05-23-2020, 09:49 AM
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Springboro, Springrollo or Rolloboro??

Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Be careful 'Boro...agreeing with Thy Royal Greatness will tarnish your resume (but it may earn you a spot at the Royal Roundtable)...plus, the King's King may become your neighbor soon! He placed a Golden bid on a new Palatial Estate in the 'Boro last night! Oakwood may never be the same without me!
Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Wait...what? There goes the neighborhood...
Your King put the palatial estate up for sale yesterday morning and sold it by 7:00, so Oakwood's loss is Springboro's gain as I bought a house there on Wednesday.

The first Royal Order will be to rename My Town...RolloBoro? or SpringRollo?? That's the Golden question!

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Old 05-23-2020, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Your King put the palatial estate up for sale yesterday morning and sold it by 7:00, so Oakwood's loss is Springboro's gain as I bought a house there on Wednesday.

The first Royal Order will be to rename My Town...RolloBoro? or SpringRollo?? That's the Golden question!

King Rollo the Real Estate Mogul...OUT!
real estate still moving in Oakwood?
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Old 05-23-2020, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Your King put the palatial estate up for sale yesterday morning and sold it by 7:00, so Oakwood's loss is Springboro's gain as I bought a house there on Wednesday.

The first Royal Order will be to rename My Town...RolloBoro? or SpringRollo?? That's the Golden question!

King Rollo the Real Estate Mogul...OUT!
Are you in the city limits or Clearcreek Twp? Can’t use the city name without paying your “fair share” of taxes. Plenty of freeloaders in Clearcreek Twp!
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:10 AM
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Today is the day college athletes have been given the go ahead by the NCAA to return to campus. It is still up to the individual schools, and UD has not announced when they can return.
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Old 07-08-2020, 09:44 PM
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Ivy League has announced that all fall sports have been cancelled. Also, according to the Wall Street Journal, Stanford has permanently cancelled 11 sports programs.

The dominoes continue to fall...
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Old 07-09-2020, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Today is the day college athletes have been given the go ahead by the NCAA to return to campus. It is still up to the individual schools, and UD has not announced when they can return.
The end of June, UD associate VB coach tweeted 6 new Flyers are in Dayton, so I assume the vball team is back and doing player-run practices.
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Old 07-09-2020, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Ivy League has announced that all fall sports have been cancelled. Also, according to the Wall Street Journal, Stanford has permanently cancelled 11 sports programs.

The dominoes continue to fall...
Stanford’s move was shocking to me. I had no idea their athletic department was so in the red even before COVID. The AD was upfront about it. Basically said COVID was the nail in the coffin, but they were in trouble before that and they had to acknowledge the problems.

It makes me wonder how many power 5 schools have been living above their means.

Also of note, UD football alum Tyler Friedrich is the Sports Performance Coach for Stanford’s women’s vball team. Hope his position is safe as they are also making staff cuts within the 25 programs they kept.
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Old 07-09-2020, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Ivy League has announced that all fall sports have been cancelled. Also, according to the Wall Street Journal, Stanford has permanently cancelled 11 sports programs.

The dominoes continue to fall...
It would not surprise me in the least if the Ivy League permanently pulls out of football. The game is no longer compatible with their DNA. In fact, their pulling out of all sports would not shock me.
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Old 07-09-2020, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
Stanford’s move was shocking to me. I had no idea their athletic department was so in the red even before COVID. The AD was upfront about it. Basically said COVID was the nail in the coffin, but they were in trouble before that and they had to acknowledge the problems.

It makes me wonder how many power 5 schools have been living above their means.

Also of note, UD football alum Tyler Friedrich is the Sports Performance Coach for Stanford’s women’s vball team. Hope his position is safe as they are also making staff cuts within the 25 programs they kept.
25 programs is still quite a big number. Here are the programs they cut - men’s and women’s fencing, field hockey, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, co-ed and women’s sailing, squash, synchronized swimming, men’s volleyball and wrestling.
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Old 07-09-2020, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
25 programs is still quite a big number. Here are the programs they cut - men’s and women’s fencing, field hockey, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, co-ed and women’s sailing, squash, synchronized swimming, men’s volleyball and wrestling.
Didn't even know half of these were collegiate sports.
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  #150  
Old 07-09-2020, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Today is the day college athletes have been given the go ahead by the NCAA to return to campus. It is still up to the individual schools, and UD has not announced when they can return.
Thought I heard Izzo say, during the game yeaterday, that he has had his guys on campus for a couple of weeks now.
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Old 07-09-2020, 04:58 PM
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Big Ten moving to conference-only model for all sports this fall


https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...ll-sports-fall
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Old 07-09-2020, 05:51 PM
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Big 10 cancelling non conference games is a huge financial hit for the MAC. BGSU, Ball State and Central Mich each had two games planned against Big 10 teams. Their sports budgets for this year are obliterated.

Will other conferences follow suit? What about basketball season? You think it’s hard for someone like UD to make the NCAA in other years, take away most of the non conference schedule and see what happens...assuming there even is a college basketball season!
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Old 07-09-2020, 06:44 PM
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I hope college sports becomes all about local rivalries and tight conferences. Let the "Flyer-9" take on other local baseball schools.



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Old 07-09-2020, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
Stanford’s move was shocking to me. I had no idea their athletic department was so in the red even before COVID. The AD was upfront about it. Basically said COVID was the nail in the coffin, but they were in trouble before that and they had to acknowledge the problems.

It makes me wonder how many power 5 schools have been living above their means.

Also of note, UD football alum Tyler Friedrich is the Sports Performance Coach for Stanford’s women’s vball team. Hope his position is safe as they are also making staff cuts within the 25 programs they kept.
If I remember correctly, there was a comment in the article I read that Stanford was going to finish their financial year $25M in the hole! That's amazing.

Shows that politicians are not the only ones who can spend more than they bring in.
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Old 07-11-2020, 11:26 PM
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I was listening to the ESPNU channel on SiriusXM and one of the guests on there said it's going to expensive and hard for smaller conferences to be able to test and put everything in place for next season
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Old 07-12-2020, 12:31 AM
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Stanford has an Ohio State sized athletic department and the nation's best athletes, but they don't have the monetary engine an Ohio State, Notre Dame, or Alabama has that swims in nationwide support, ticket sales, merchandising deals, and the commanding premium ad rates when on TV. They probably don't even have the cache of USC and USC fields far fewer sports.

West coast teams are a hard nationwide sell because of the time zone. You make your money on the brand and the branding starts with football. Stanford has had some really good teams (Andrew Luck years) but Stanford Stadium is often half full and it only seats 50,000. MBB gets poor attendance. Even VanDerveer's WBB team doesn't sell out Maples very often in spite of them getting yearly #1 seeds and it being a small facility.
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Old 07-12-2020, 01:51 AM
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Sports isn’t where Stanford makes their money. Their alumni are rich and famous and they are generous. Half the companies in Silicon Valley were started by Stanford professors and/or students. I lived a mile down the road from Stanford for a few years. Their football stadium is literally a hole in the ground with bleacher seating. Their basketball arena, well it isn’t an arena, and back in those days the women’s team drew more spectators than the men’s team.
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Old 07-12-2020, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I was listening to the ESPNU channel on SiriusXM and one of the guests on there said it's going to expensive and hard for smaller conferences to be able to test and put everything in place for next season
Coastal Carolina went out and “fundraised” for their testing. A major medical facility agreed to underwrite and provide the testing for their athletes. I thought testing was going to be free in America, but that might only be one test???? Athletes will need one or two tests a week. I’ve read it’s about $100 per test, but I don’t know if that’s correct. Hopefully UD is out looking for a partner for these services. Even if they could get them for “at cost” and a med facility would administer them for free, it would be a huge financial help.

I would donate to a fund to underwrite these tests, especially if it was announced they were being purchased at cost. I don’t want it to be a barrier to having a season.
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Old 07-12-2020, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
Coastal Carolina went out and “fundraised” for their testing. A major medical facility agreed to underwrite and provide the testing for their athletes. I thought testing was going to be free in America, but that might only be one test???? Athletes will need one or two tests a week. I’ve read it’s about $100 per test, but I don’t know if that’s correct. Hopefully UD is out looking for a partner for these services. Even if they could get them for “at cost” and a med facility would administer them for free, it would be a huge financial help.

I would donate to a fund to underwrite these tests, especially if it was announced they were being purchased at cost. I don’t want it to be a barrier to having a season.
They way that I understand it from ESPNU Radio is that when you jumping up in testing to multiple times a week you pick up the responsibility.

I got the impression that say if you're a soccer team or an Olympic sports team that could play multiple times per week that's really going to ramp up your testing needs.

With some many non power schools budgets built on student athletic fees and guarantee games I wonder how some of them afford this. Any drop in enrollment is going to hit a place like Wright St's budget

Then I saw this

@dennisdoddcbs
The 11 cancelled games with the Big Ten are costing the MAC north of $17 million. If the Big Ten plays could be some MAC litigation regarding broken game contracts.
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:12 AM
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The impact of non-conference games is going to kill the non-P5 boys.

If this hits hoops...it kills the ability for UD to bump up numbers in the OOC.

If this goes on with HS, where football funds all athletics, you can kiss the funding for schools sports goodbye too.
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Old 07-15-2020, 02:24 AM
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Philadelphia bars gatherings over 50 people on public property through February 2021 so no home games with fans for schools who play in public owned facilities


https://6abc.com/health/philly-prohi...ruary/6316668/

Last edited by NCkevi; 07-15-2020 at 02:53 AM..
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  #162  
Old 07-15-2020, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
The impact of non-conference games is going to kill the non-P5 boys.

If this hits hoops...it kills the ability for UD to bump up numbers in the OOC.

If this goes on with HS, where football funds all athletics, you can kiss the funding for schools sports goodbye too.
It was already an uphill battle for a "group of 5" team to make the playoff, but without any non conference games against P5 teams it is officially impossible.

I'm not so sure the impact on basketball would be the same, because in theory at least a non-biased algorithm is used based on wins and losses. The "power 5" gets a boost because they beat up on cupcakes in their non conference slate and then they all play each other. That won't happen without a non-con slate.
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
With some many non power schools budgets built on student athletic fees and guarantee games I wonder how some of them afford this. Any drop in enrollment is going to hit a place like Wright St's budget

Then I saw this

@dennisdoddcbs
The 11 cancelled games with the Big Ten are costing the MAC north of $17 million. If the Big Ten plays could be some MAC litigation regarding broken game contracts.

I'll bet the contracts contain force majeur, but it'll take a judge to decide if this qualifies.
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:54 PM
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Using my crystal ball, I forsee no college football and maybe conference BB after the new year. All it takes is one, or a couple infections to shut down a program. Evidence so far is showing that it is hard to do. As teams shut down, games are cancelled, hodpoge of a schedule. South and West not inclined to use preventive measures, hard to see huge improvement in the next couple of months.
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Old 07-17-2020, 01:22 PM
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Per reports, the A-10 has cancelled fall sports. It does say chance to play a shortened schedule if circumstances change and possibility of playing in the fall.
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Old 07-17-2020, 04:15 PM
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I am beginning to think there will be no football this year at any level. With all of these tests, the numbers are mushrooming and many of these testing positive had no idea they were ill. Thirty seven Clemson football players have tested positive and to my knowledge, none are showing symptoms.
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Old 07-17-2020, 06:27 PM
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There's virtually no risk to people of player's age. So are we worried about the coaches and staff? Why couldn't they do their job while maintaining safe distances?

Europe has been playing soccer for months. The TBT was a huge success. I don't see why we couldn't pull of football. And I really can't see why we couldn't pull off basketball (much, much easier given the numbers).
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  #168  
Old 07-17-2020, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
And I really can't see why we couldn't pull off basketball (much, much easier given the numbers).
The long lasting implications of a season without fans, or even more hurtful, a season where there is picking and choosing of who gets in the door...will impact UD sports more than anything.

It has to be either an all or nothing approach.

I personally know some big donors and they know even bigger donors to UD that have stated they will not give UD another dollar if the current idea of no reimbursement or carry over for the Arena Seating Plan is carried out as indicated in the letter to ticket holders. The ones I do know are waiting to see how this pans out before making noise about it.

If that is the case there will be a reset by donors and a reset by the average ST holder who just lost out on a couple grand in seat license fees and no 20-21 season.

UD either needs to carry over the ASP to 21-22 with no fans in the stands or go as usual with a full season. I honestly don't think the latter will happen as this COVID thing will go through the beginning of the hoops season.
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Old 07-17-2020, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
.

I personally know some big donors and they know even bigger donors to UD that have stated they will not give UD another dollar if the current idea of no reimbursement or carry over for the Arena Seating Plan is carried out as indicated in the letter to ticket holders. The ones I do know are waiting to see how this pans out before making noise about it.
My friend who has multiple seats in the Flight Deck said the same thing. At $4K a pop she is a bit concerned about how this is handled going forward by the U, and her husbands company had been talking about big $ for more and better seating before all this hit.
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Old 07-18-2020, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
The long lasting implications of a season without fans, or even more hurtful, a season where there is picking and choosing of who gets in the door...will impact UD sports more than anything.

It has to be either an all or nothing approach.

I personally know some big donors and they know even bigger donors to UD that have stated they will not give UD another dollar if the current idea of no reimbursement or carry over for the Arena Seating Plan is carried out as indicated in the letter to ticket holders. The ones I do know are waiting to see how this pans out before making noise about it.

If that is the case there will be a reset by donors and a reset by the average ST holder who just lost out on a couple grand in seat license fees and no 20-21 season.

UD either needs to carry over the ASP to 21-22 with no fans in the stands or go as usual with a full season. I honestly don't think the latter will happen as this COVID thing will go through the beginning of the hoops season.
If things continue to progress (spiking in Covid19 cases without regard to any other data point), COLLEGE IN GENERAL is at risk. Not saying I agree with the hysteria (I did in early March but don't at all now) but unfortunately we now live in a time where common sense has been thrown out the window. For 37 Clemson football players to test positive and not even be aware of symptoms should tell the rational thinking person something. "Experts" clearly do not understand this virus. People wearing "designer" face masks who are then criticizing those who don't wear masks are laughable. The average size of this virus is .125um in size. An N95 mask (which i rarely see anybody wearing anymore but thought to be the standard in protection) can filter effectively down to .3um in size; in other words, even THOSE N95 masks really cannot stop a Covid19 virus from slipping through the mask.

I'm hoping that a "fast track" vaccine becomes available shortly; I don't think It'll be effective but it may restore a sense of safety and allow things to get back to normal.
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  #171  
Old 07-18-2020, 02:46 PM
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...es/5343537002/

n95 masks do work and why
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Old 07-18-2020, 09:32 PM
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Shouldn't be surprised by students testing positive on college campuses... there were a lot of kids on UD's campus back in January for certain that had it (not sure about February and March, but would assume so).

My daughter and a lot of other students she new got diagnosed with upper respitory or flu back in January.

She just told me she now knows 4 of them who have had the antibody test come back positive - so she is certain she's had it, because we took one of them to Urgent Care with us.

Yeah I drove them, but as of June I haven't had it.

So the kids have already spent 2-3 months passing it similar to the flu.

Now they at least are identifying it (with all the testing), and are better at keeping it from spreading - with quarantining.
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Old 07-18-2020, 11:12 PM
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With the A10 announcing today that they would be delaying all fall sports competition to spring, it puts A10 schools in a very precarious situation. The A10 did leave the door open by saying they would re-evaluate in a 60-day window around Oct. 1, with the possibility of still playing sports this fall, but as of right now, we have an issue on our hands.

That issue is the qualification and participation in the fall NCAA championships. As of the NCAAs last official statement which occurred in early June, they re-enforced their position of playing fall championships in the fall. The A10s decision is in essence a one-year NCAA postseason probation for all A10 fall sports programs because they would have no body of work for the NCAA to evaluate to make a case for inclusion in the respective NCAA Tournaments -- either by automatic bid or at-large.

In the A10's defense, other conferences and other schools have already announced similar decisions about pushing fall sports to spring 2021 so the A10 is not in complete isolation here. Still, with so many programs kicking the can down the road, even if the NCAA still chooses to host fall championships in the fall of 2020, the subsequent bracket selection process and tournament itself would be a complete nightmare to assemble and put forward. Many teams would have nothing but conference-only results. The NCAA uses the RPI for these sports and the RPI is heavily reliant upon a "connected data field". Every conference would finish with a .500 record as usual but with zero out-of-conference results to cross-reference one team and one region with another from beyond their own walls. The eventual national champion might require an asterisks for playing in a 16-team bracket instead of a 64-team bracket.

The A10 could indeed change their mind on Oct 1., but even so the season would be a shell of its usual self. Would student athletes want to waste a full scholarship seasons playing 1/2 or 1/3 the games? Would UD athletes want to give up playing schools from the Power-5 conferences and traveling to other parts of the country which is what much o of the thrill of coming to UD is about....beating Goliath?

The NCAA needs to kick the can down the road as well and postpone the fall championships to the spring of 2021. It buys everyone more time and ensures any conference or school thats made a decision to postpone already has not done so with any great competitive loss thus far. And any decision made in the fall of 2020 to play an abbreviated season is a decision that can also be made in the spring of 2021 if things remain as-is in the COVID world. There's really no downside to postponement. It salvages the chance at an normal/full season and championship for most schools yet keeps the door open to make the same decision then as some are doing now.

Plus, it allows the student athletes a chance to receive what they signed up for: four full seasons of competitive athletics. The NCAA must do everything it can do hold up their end of that bargain.

Now, my personal opinion is the COVID situation may not be all that much different in March than it is now, but at least everybody will be on the same page and every school will more or less be doing the same thing so every team at that time can still choose to play a full or abbreviated schedule because they know there is no such option for a further postponement.

I know if I was a student athlete Id prefer to wait and play a potential full season in the spring. I wouldnt want a watered-down half-baked fall season that feels like small-time athletics with half-measures and ornamental arrangement.
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  #174  
Old 07-19-2020, 07:59 AM
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I was thinking pretty much the same. I will add, postponing Olympic sports until Spring might also allow the nation to focus resources on having a football season. Let’s face it, many of these bowl-series schools can’t afford any sports without football. Looking at TBT and what the NBA is doing, it’s a bigger scale because of the roster, but can it be set up for football?

And, the postponement of fall sports might also allow schools to open men’s and women’s basketball in Nov-Dec. Like I said over on the vball forum, at this point moving to Spring is not that big of deal if it gets a season in.

If you’re sitting at the table, knowing something has to give and you look at the real priorities, This decision gives you more of a chance to check all the boxes and still deliver a season and championship for all student-athletes. No one wants to cancel a championship tournament like they had to do in March for men’s and women’s basketball. I think you’re going to see more conferences follow suit and the NCAA will too.
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Old 07-19-2020, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Furio View Post
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...es/5343537002/

n95 masks do work and why
Yeah, I've read that article and similar ones stating that N95 mask do work despite the size constraint; You'll find much, much different opinions from experts at OSHA (they are the ones that designate what N95 masks can and cannot do). In fact, they say that even N95 mask aren't designed to be worn all day, that many people with heart and lung breathing conditions should never wear this type of mask for the dangers it poses to their condition. Don't believe everything you read, especially from USA Today.
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  #176  
Old 07-19-2020, 02:43 PM
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Well the official OHSA site recommends use of N95 masks for health care workers.
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Old 07-19-2020, 05:46 PM
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Try finding an N95
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Old 07-19-2020, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Try finding an N95
Looks like they are available. $60 or $56 for just one though, wow. Price gouging.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pack-3M-9...edirect=mobile

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pack-3M-9...edirect=mobile

Last edited by ud2; 07-19-2020 at 11:18 PM.. Reason: Misspelled gouging
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Old 07-19-2020, 09:03 PM
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I just bought a two-pack at Lowe’s for $14.95. Got lucky, no doubt.
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  #180  
Old 07-20-2020, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
If things continue to progress (spiking in Covid19 cases without regard to any other data point), COLLEGE IN GENERAL is at risk. Not saying I agree with the hysteria (I did in early March but don't at all now) but unfortunately we now live in a time where common sense has been thrown out the window. For 37 Clemson football players to test positive and not even be aware of symptoms should tell the rational thinking person something. "Experts" clearly do not understand this virus. People wearing "designer" face masks who are then criticizing those who don't wear masks are laughable. The average size of this virus is .125um in size. An N95 mask (which i rarely see anybody wearing anymore but thought to be the standard in protection) can filter effectively down to .3um in size; in other words, even THOSE N95 masks really cannot stop a Covid19 virus from slipping through the mask.

I'm hoping that a "fast track" vaccine becomes available shortly; I don't think It'll be effective but it may restore a sense of safety and allow things to get back to normal.
The virus doesn't float in the air freely it is inside droplets of water the mask just has to block the droplets. If the droplet evaporates and the virus is floating freely I am not sure how long it maintains its potency.
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Old 07-20-2020, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Looks like they are available. $60 or $56 for just one though, wow. Price gouging.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pack-3M-9...edirect=mobile

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pack-3M-9...edirect=mobile
pack of 5. Still way overpriced
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  #182  
Old 07-20-2020, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Furio View Post
pack of 5. Still way overpriced
No, the cheapest is $56 each. I added 5 to my cart, they want $280.
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Old 07-20-2020, 12:42 PM
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Flu (2019) versus COVID-19 death rate...

5 to 17 years of age:
.01 % (flu)
.03% (covid)

18 to 29 years of age:
.01% (flu)
.10% (covid)

99.9% chance of recovering from Covid.

So why are fall sports being cancelled... the 2 things I consistently hear is:

1.) they could pass it on to a coach or trainer
2.) they could bring it home to grandma

I would think that persons over 65, or those with the noted pre-existing conditions, should not be involved with the program this year (and should be supplied some kind of 1 year opt out, and be able to re-join next year).

And there are already multiple ways a young person could contact the virus and bring it home - so I sure hope grandma, and those with pre-existing conditions, are already doing what they need to do from catching it.

BTW... both of my parents are 80, and have multiple grandkids in schools/colleges (so don't think I can't directly relate to this issue).

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  #184  
Old 07-20-2020, 04:09 PM
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Am I correct in assuming that the conferences that are cancelling fall sports are also going to cancel basketball for at least Nov/Dec?
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  #185  
Old 07-20-2020, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Am I correct in assuming that the conferences that are cancelling fall sports are also going to cancel basketball for at least Nov/Dec?
I don’t think you can necessarily assume that but if I was a betting man, I’d bet no college sports at all until 2021.
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Old 07-20-2020, 10:45 PM
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I would place the same bet.
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Old 07-20-2020, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I don’t think you can necessarily assume that but if I was a betting man, I’d bet no college sports at all until 2021.
No one is going to be the trend setter and call BS on the whole deal. Heaven forbid individuals assume responsibility for themselves versus institutions taking the brunt.

I see the same thing with local school districts, etc. Everyone is afraid of a lawsuit.

Have parents ever sued because a kid got the flu?
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  #188  
Old 07-21-2020, 12:48 AM
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With all the mask talk lately, I don't know why Trump doesn't command Ford motor company or 3M or somebody to start making more N95 masks, like he did with the ventilators. I thought a couple months ago there was an agreement with some company in Maine to start kicking them out faster, but obviously you still can't buy a N95 mask anywhere at a reasonable price, but maybe the medical industry is hoarding all of the N95 masks.

Last edited by ud2; 07-21-2020 at 01:05 AM..
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Old 07-21-2020, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
No one is going to be the trend setter and call BS on the whole deal. Heaven forbid individuals assume responsibility for themselves versus institutions taking the brunt.

I see the same thing with local school districts, etc. Everyone is afraid of a lawsuit.

Have parents ever sued because a kid got the flu?
It is not just no one willing to call BS. A few doing it won't make a difference. Regardless of how you or I personally feel, I hear enough that makes feel that the masses are going to cause no college sports until 2021. I don't have kids in school. I'm retired. The only thing that affect me personally are travel restrictions and I need my Flyer basketball.
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Old 07-21-2020, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
With all the mask talk lately, I don't know why Trump doesn't command Ford motor company or 3M or somebody to start making more N95 masks, like he did with the ventilators. I thought a couple months ago there was an agreement with some company in Maine to start kicking them out faster, but obviously you still can't buy a N95 mask anywhere at a reasonable price, but maybe the medical industry is hoarding all of the N95 masks.

N95's masks are overkill if you're not really high risk. They are hard to breath out of. I have a bunch of them I would use pre pandemic for construction. Hell i'd rather where a huge respirator than the n95s. When i go out I don't use the n95s, I use surgical masks. The surgical masks are honestly no big deal to wear, the n95's suck after about 15 minutes.

The whole point is to just cover your face so the spit flying out of your mouth stays with you vs out into the air. You just have to watch someone talk in the sunlight to know masks even the light surgical masks help. Are they full proof no, but they do help.

Last edited by shwag33; 07-21-2020 at 09:19 AM..
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  #191  
Old 07-21-2020, 09:15 AM
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Actually, I was wrong, the agreement with the Maine company in April was to make swabs.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...02815453536257


At an April 20 briefing by the coronavirus task force, the president announced that his administration was preparing to use the Defense Production Act to compel the production of 20 million test swabs per month. He did not specify which company would do the work.

Nine days later, RealClearPolitics has learned the White House plans to work with Puritan Medical Products to retrofit a facility in Maine and bring 48 new machines online to make the swabs. Total cost of the effort: $75.5 million.

“You’ll have so many swabs you won’t know what to do with them,” Trump had said at the briefing. And now senior administration officials tell RCP that Puritan will have the capacity to manufacture 40 million a month — double what the president promised.






The N95 mask manufacturing process is more complex and specialized, so that explains the shortage, not just anybody can produce N95 masks.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/n95-mas...n-filters/#app:

N95 masks look simple enough: two outer layers of fabric that form the shape of the mask, with a thin filter between.


It's that sandwiched inner layer that complicates the mask's construction and differentiates medical-grade protection from a homemade mask.

A surge in demand for material for that layer is a key reason for the global shortage of N95s.

The filter is made of thousands of nonwoven fibers, each thinner than a strand of hair and fused together through a process known as melt blown extrusion.

Manufacturers of the material have been pushed to produce at unprecedented levels, straining an industry that relies on complex machinery and specialized training that's part technical and part "art form," according to some in the industry.

"The supply chain has gotten nuts for this particular material," said Nozi Hamidi, vice president of marketing and business development for SWM International, one of roughly two dozen domestic manufacturers of melt blown material. "We experienced this when SARS happened 17 or so years ago, but not to this extent. This is just absolutely insane."

"We're trying to not turn away people, but the reality of the situation at least for us is we're sold out well into 2020, so if we take on a new customer right now, they basically have to wait," Hamidi said. "We have to say to them that it might be until the end of 2020 or into 2021 before we can actually get you going as a new customer."

"There are only five or six companies across the globe that make these machines, and they're not inexpensive. These are sizable machines, a lot of technology, a lot of air handling, a lot of electronics, a lot of precision moving parts," Rousse said. "Normally it's nine to 12 months before you could get a machine delivery."

And you've got many more people feeling the need to comply with the CDC advice to wear a face mask in public. And they say 'If I'm going to wear a face mask, I want the best **** face mask money can buy'," Rousse said.
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  #192  
Old 07-21-2020, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
No one is going to be the trend setter and call BS on the whole deal. Heaven forbid individuals assume responsibility for themselves versus institutions taking the brunt.

I see the same thing with local school districts, etc. Everyone is afraid of a lawsuit.

Have parents ever sued because a kid got the flu?
The problem, as several states have shown, is that the public didn't take responsibility and now several states, including mine, are in trouble.

I understand that Dr. Trump has now stated that wearing a mask is "patriotic".
With an inspirational leader like that how can we go wrong?
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  #193  
Old 07-21-2020, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
The problem, as several states have shown, is that the public didn't take responsibility and now several states, including mine, are in trouble.

I understand that Dr. Trump has now stated that wearing a mask is "patriotic".
With an inspirational leader like that how can we go wrong?
Wrong thread. Take your political comments to Off Topic.
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  #194  
Old 07-21-2020, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Wrong thread. Take your political comments to Off Topic.
Sorry jack, thought I was in off topic
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  #195  
Old 07-21-2020, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
The problem, as several states have shown, is that the public didn't take responsibility and now several states, including mine, are in trouble.

I understand that Dr. Trump has now stated that wearing a mask is "patriotic".
With an inspirational leader like that how can we go wrong?

Thank you for posting.

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In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
- George Orwell
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  #196  
Old 07-21-2020, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
The problem, as several states have shown, is that the public didn't take responsibility and now several states, including mine, are in trouble.

I understand that Dr. Trump has now stated that wearing a mask is "patriotic".
With an inspirational leader like that how can we go wrong?
Correct... the public did not take responsibility - as hundreds, thousands, and even 10's of thousands of people have been protesting with no social distancing - for about a month now.
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  #197  
Old 07-21-2020, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel View Post
Correct... the public did not take responsibility - as hundreds, thousands, and even 10's of thousands of people have been protesting with no social distancing - for about a month now.
Minimal protesting in Florida, bars were wall to wall though.
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  #198  
Old 07-21-2020, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Minimal protesting in Florida, bars were wall to wall though.
Protests have occurred in dozens of cities in Florida, including multi-day protests in Miami and a protest outside of Derek Chauvin's summer home in Windermere. Protests became violent in Fort Lauderdale,[43] Jacksonville,[44] Miami,[45] Tampa,[46] and West Palm Beach.[47] The Governor activated the Florida National Guard on May 31.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._United_States
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  #199  
Old 07-21-2020, 08:20 PM
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I'm less worried about Covid than I am about human trafficking, but guess which one gets all of the coverage, and cost the Flyers a possible National Championship.
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  #200  
Old 07-22-2020, 11:36 AM
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If a conference like the MEAC cancels all fall sports I would think it would be hard to justify the football team not playing in November but the basketball team going on business as usual
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