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01-19-2019, 07:07 PM
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Tell me how bad AG is in close games
W in 2 OT.
Discuss....
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01-19-2019, 07:14 PM
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Grant's coaching abilities were stretched any number of ways today with OTs, foul outs and fatigue. He's my MVP for today's 'must win' road game.
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01-19-2019, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic
W in 2 OT.
Discuss....
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Are u serious ? The final 9.9 secs of regulation might be the worst coaching in history, dribble the ball up court slowly till u get to 4.4 secs, call timeout then inbound the ball 40 feet from the hoop, dribble twice and shoot a 35 footer
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01-19-2019, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott
Are u serious ? The final 9.9 secs of regulation might be the worst coaching in history, dribble the ball up court slowly till u get to 4.4 secs, call timeout then inbound the ball 40 feet from the hoop, dribble twice and shoot a 35 footer
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Yup that was all on the coach. I am going to send AG an email and tell him to dribble up the court faster next time.
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01-19-2019, 07:32 PM
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I don’t want to say anything negative after a win but did you not watch the VCU game?
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01-19-2019, 07:32 PM
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As Bobby Knight once said, the hardest part of coaching is to get the players to do what you tell them to do. I doubt if that play was designed to result in a 35 footer. But yeah, Grant dribbled that ball up the floor way too slow.
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01-19-2019, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer
I don’t want to say anything negative after a win but did you not watch the VCU game?
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You don't want to but you will.
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01-19-2019, 07:37 PM
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Absolutely, other than the win, AG was the weak link, way out coached today. We never adjusted offensively, didn’t confront Stockard until way late, had poor strategy at the end of periods and he played Frankie....., who has now played enough to be declared officially terrible. Has no instinct for rebounding and clearly no offensive moves. Likely he won’t play at all next year and probably transfers.
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01-19-2019, 07:40 PM
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Glad to see udscott and maddog are back. That 6-game winning streak was tough on them.
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01-19-2019, 07:41 PM
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Defense switching was fine as well as trying to find the right matchup. Only head scratcher was the end of regulation. There were no options on that play other than Jalen... Right after he drew up a great one to Obi.
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01-19-2019, 07:43 PM
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So from the comments, I assume UD lost. OK.
Crutcher should have s ores more in 2 OT. Oops. That was on AG.
Reality!
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01-19-2019, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer
Yup that was all on the coach. I am going to send AG an email and tell him to dribble up the court faster next time.
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Crutcher and Grant were clearly not on the same page there. If the plan was to take a timeout once they crossed half court, it should have been rushed up there to save time. Crutcher brought the ball up like he playing for the final shot. There was a breakdown in communication somewhere.
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01-19-2019, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
Glad to see udscott and maddog are back. That 6-game winning streak was tough on them.
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Has anyone ever actually seen udscott and maddog in the same room together? One person, two accounts???
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01-19-2019, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott
Are u serious ? The final 9.9 secs of regulation might be the worst coaching in history, dribble the ball up court slowly till u get to 4.4 secs, call timeout then inbound the ball 40 feet from the hoop, dribble twice and shoot a 35 footer
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Do you think that was his instructions. Sometimes players need to think for themselves.
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01-19-2019, 08:02 PM
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For all you naysayers, you do realize St. Bonny is 25-1 at home against A-10 teams NOT named Dayton in the last 3 seasons?
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01-19-2019, 08:08 PM
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the switch to zone at end of regulation (or first overtime, cant remember )worked well. Good coaching
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01-19-2019, 08:08 PM
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UD won.
How did AG fail?
I'm trying to u understand..
Educate me.
Discuss...
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01-19-2019, 08:13 PM
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UDs decision to go zone at the end of the game screwed Schmidt up. He wasn't ready for it on their in-bound set they spent the timeout discussing. Great adjustment.
This followed another great decision to elect to apply full-court pressure against SBU -- something we rarely do b/c of depth and personnel. We did it anyway to speed the game up and it could have easily backfired with run-out baskets to stick a fork in us. Instead it resulted in a couple steals that led to easy baskets. That alone got us back in the game. Schmidt once again handled this poorly and his team was not prepared for it.
The out-of-bounds play Grant set up to get Obi the look underneath for the lay-in with 30 seconds to go -- once again made Schmidt look overwhelmed.
I didnt necessarily like the TO with 4sec left either, but my biggest criticism of Grant was his free throw coaching this afternoon. It nearly lost the game for us when it should have won it for us with room to spare in regs.
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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01-19-2019, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic
UD won.
How did AG fail?
I'm trying to u understand..
Educate me.
Discuss...
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Why did he draw up a play with 4.4 to go and have the ball inbounded going away from the hoop and be almost 40 feet away, why was the play not drawn up with the pass going towards the basket
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01-19-2019, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
Has anyone ever actually seen udscott and maddog in the same room together? One person, two accounts???
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Lol
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01-19-2019, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott
Why did he draw up a play with 4.4 to go and have the ball inbounded going away from the hoop and be almost 40 feet away, why was the play not drawn up with the pass going towards the basket
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because we had 4.4 seconds left, plenty of time to get to the basket. The failure was not on Grant. How do we even know that was the first option on the inbounds? Everyone was active and moving, option 1 may have broke down
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01-19-2019, 08:22 PM
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How do we know it wasn’t? We can’t assume we can only go by facts and what we saw and what we saw the last 9.9 secs was garbage
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01-19-2019, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott
How do we know it wasn’t? We can’t assume we can only go by facts and what we saw and what we saw the last 9.9 secs was garbage
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So you can assume it was, but I can not assume it wasn't? OK, gotcha!
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01-19-2019, 08:33 PM
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I’m not assuming anything, I’m going by factual evidence that we saw not an assumption like you
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01-19-2019, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott
I’m not assuming anything, I’m going by factual evidence that we saw not an assumption like you
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As a matter of fact, you are assuming that what you saw was what coach drew up. It would be very easy to win if every time a coach draws up a play the team executes it perfectly. If it were so, why even play the game? Just have opposite coaches draw up plays and just count the points.
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01-19-2019, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
For all you naysayers, you do realize St. Bonny is 25-1 at home against A-10 teams NOT named Dayton in the last 3 seasons?
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The 16/17 and 17/18 Bonny teams won 20+ games each year. So congrats to those prior UD teams that won.
St Bonny is not going to win anywhere close to 20 games this year.
While I'll take any road win, let's not make this year's win more than it is.
Quicken Loans arena was a very tough place to win the last two years. Not so much this year.
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01-19-2019, 08:59 PM
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A few years ago, I sat right behind the UD bench at a road game at Ole Miss. With the game tied at the end of regulation, Archie calls time out and sets up a play for Vee Sanford (you know the guy who hit one of most famous shots in the history of UD). Vee for whatever reason failed to execute. The play looked horrible, incoherent, busted. Terrible play. The play was called for Vee even though Devin Oliver was having a career game. In OT, Oliver continued his stunning performance, banks in an improbable off balance 3 point shot to win the game. Naturally, Archie was a genius and Kennedy was a terrible coach for letting Devin shoot that bank shot.
Bad and busted plays aren't always what the coach scripts out. It is often up to the players to execute, no matter the strategy.
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01-19-2019, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer
As a matter of fact, you are assuming that what you saw was what coach drew up. It would be very easy to win if every time a coach draws up a play the team executes it perfectly. If it were so, why even play the game? Just have opposite coaches draw up plays and just count the points.
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Strat-O-Matic Basketball!
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01-19-2019, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
because we had 4.4 seconds left, plenty of time to get to the basket. The failure was not on Grant. How do we even know that was the first option on the inbounds? Everyone was active and moving, option 1 may have broke down
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The 4.4 play had a screen for a guy going towards the rim as the first option. That option isn't going to be there against a D1 team let alone a 5th grade team.
The second option was a screen to get Crutcher open. That worked.
Whatever option...that crutcher had if there was one...was not there...I am not convinced there was one unless it was for Davis to run all the way to the back side.
After that we set a ball screen for Crutcher and that's all she wrote.
Whatever options on that play, that either were or weren't there, were no where nearly going to be as effective as the play prior with diversion and screens for Obi in the paint.
This team has to get looks going to the rim on OOB plays. So far we have seen Crutcher one on one against pressure more often than not.
Either way...it doesn't matter at this point. The zone and defensive assignments are what changed the tone of the game. What we most often see is a lack of either execution or planning out of timeouts. Let me rephrase..that's what we pay attention to.
Grant did a ton of good things this game...the final will of the players to buckle down is what won it. But I still have concern for some late game calls. I know I am not alone in that matter, but when you only have one scorer you have to get creative...which he did for Obi prior to the last possession.
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01-19-2019, 09:27 PM
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Your last paragraph is dead on !!
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01-19-2019, 09:46 PM
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I’m wondering why cohill wasn’t used at pg. Davis had a few mistakes handling the ball that almost cost the game. I’d also like to see Frankie get some set plays to hit a three when he is in. He has the range so use it
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01-19-2019, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
UDs decision to go zone at the end of the game screwed Schmidt up. He wasn't ready for it on their in-bound set they spent the timeout discussing. Great adjustment.
This followed another great decision to elect to apply full-court pressure against SBU -- something we rarely do b/c of depth and personnel. We did it anyway to speed the game up and it could have easily backfired with run-out baskets to stick a fork in us. Instead it resulted in a couple steals that led to easy baskets. That alone got us back in the game. Schmidt once again handled this poorly and his team was not prepared for it.
The out-of-bounds play Grant set up to get Obi the look underneath for the lay-in with 30 seconds to go -- once again made Schmidt look overwhelmed.
I didnt necessarily like the TO with 4sec left either, but my biggest criticism of Grant was his free throw coaching this afternoon. It nearly lost the game for us when it should have won it for us with room to spare in regs.
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This is spot on. If there can be any criticism, it would be that there hasn't been any adjustment to our under 20 second awful offensive scheme.
Could argue that Davis did a pretty decent job in that situation today.
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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01-19-2019, 10:16 PM
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I would not have called timeout with 4.4 left, too hard to get a good shot coming out of that timeout IMO.
Showed a lot of grit getting the win though.
A very entertaining finish.
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01-19-2019, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
UDs decision to go zone at the end of the game screwed Schmidt up. He wasn't ready for it on their in-bound set they spent the timeout discussing. Great adjustment.
This followed another great decision to elect to apply full-court pressure against SBU -- something we rarely do b/c of depth and personnel. We did it anyway to speed the game up and it could have easily backfired with run-out baskets to stick a fork in us. Instead it resulted in a couple steals that led to easy baskets. That alone got us back in the game. Schmidt once again handled this poorly and his team was not prepared for it.
The out-of-bounds play Grant set up to get Obi the look underneath for the lay-in with 30 seconds to go -- once again made Schmidt look overwhelmed.
I didnt necessarily like the TO with 4sec left either, but my biggest criticism of Grant was his free throw coaching this afternoon. It nearly lost the game for us when it should have won it for us with room to spare in regs.
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Powerful finishing point CR. LOVE IT!! Mic-drop moment........
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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01-19-2019, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
my biggest criticism of Grant was his free throw coaching this afternoon. It nearly lost the game for us when it should have won it for us with room to spare in regs.
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Grant is going to get an earful from Josh's girlfriend for that terrible free throw coaching.
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01-19-2019, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott
Why did he draw up a play with 4.4 to go and have the ball inbounded going away from the hoop and be almost 40 feet away, why was the play not drawn up with the pass going towards the basket
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Good question...in fact, an even better question is this: Why, for the second straight game, call time out with less than 10 seconds to go when in fact the ball was already in the hands of your play-maker? 4.4 seconds left and then you get the ball back in Crutcher's hands. This time at 25 feet with nowhere to go with the ball because the defense had an opportunity to re-set. I did not mind his calling time out with 22 seconds, but 4.4 seconds gives the offense practically no opportunity to do anything except try to lob the ball inside.
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01-20-2019, 09:00 AM
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I don't think AG is the weak link although I was yelling at the television for them to move the ball and stop the dribbling in place.
The absolute lack of rebounding, particularly on defense, is the weak link. How many second and third shots did SBU offensive players get? Also the absolute dribbling hell bent from one length of the floor (Davis, Crutcher, Landers, Mikesell) and charging down the lane against two and three defenders does not help.
But a win is a win. We were favored by 3 and won by 3 just took us way too long and with too much effort. Stopped SBU's 14 game home win streak.
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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01-20-2019, 10:39 AM
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I was coaching a very high level girls team about 15 years ago. We were down one point with 10 seconds to go. I drew up a play where the point guard got the inbound, fed to the left side high post, and she was to feed it to the right side cutter to the basket. The point guard gets the inbound pass, takes several dribbles and throws up a brick three pointer. Game, set, match.
I, and my assistants, stand with our mouths wide open, stunned. Just then the point guard's father runs up to me and says, "What is wrong with you, why would you have my daughter shoot a three instead of penetrating for a two?"
It happens at every level, and more than we know.
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01-20-2019, 11:00 AM
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Poor rebounding and poor free throw shooting caused this game to go into overtime. Should have won in regulation.
As for the 4.4 time out, I was not a fan. UD should have 3-4 go to set plays based on personnel on the court for just such a situation. With less than a full shot clock and the ball, AG should signal that play from the sidelines at the 10 second mark with hopes of scoring with less than 2 seconds left. The players should be reminded of this at the last media time out in a close game. No sense calling a time out to let the defense - catch their breath - make a substitution - set up a defense.
All that aside, it was a great win for the program, given how short handed we are and this is really AG's first year with a "team". Work on the rebounding, Ft's, and get Cohill and Policelli up to speed and it will only get better from here.
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01-20-2019, 11:52 AM
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Major General
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Congratulations
to Coach Grant and the UD Flyers team on a very good road win at SBU. Olean is the toughest
place to play in the A-10 in recent years. Good job by all. Bring on George Mason.
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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01-20-2019, 02:12 PM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
Has anyone ever actually seen udscott and maddog in the same room together? One person, two accounts???
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Not same person, however rumor has it that they share the same set of PJ's
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01-21-2019, 10:05 AM
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Captain
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I think I need more than one close win against a 6-12 team to change my mind. I'm happy that the glass half full crowd believes though. I just need a little more convincing than that.
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01-21-2019, 11:18 AM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by udscott
Why did he draw up a play with 4.4 to go and have the ball inbounded going away from the hoop and be almost 40 feet away, why was the play not drawn up with the pass going towards the basket
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I can remember the good old days when Monday morning quarterbacks or coaches would go on full assault after a LOSS. With you, this is becoming a criticism of AG at all costs no matter what the outcome; sadly-this new paradigm seems influenced by MSM.
Yeah, I couldn't believe AG didn't wear a shirt under his jacket for this game; seems like he was being disrespectful to UD as a higher level educational institution, all former players and fans at UD....(sarcasm, in case you missed it)
Seriously man, you need to get a life. Year one was about cleaning house and setting the tone; in my mind, mission accomplished. Year two is about bringing in his players with the existing ones that took the coaching transition like mature adults and getting the team to gel with limited resources and unfortunately a loss of a key cog (JM). 12-6 against a very tough schedule in year 2 with what we have in terms of experience and depth...if it continues....is COY territory in my opinion.
Why don't you just follow IU and get it over with. This board grows weary of your continual criticism. And right now, AM needs more support (see the weekend loss and 4 game losing streak). Please go there and support the former UD coach; he needs you.
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01-21-2019, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67
12-6 against a very tough schedule in year 2 with what we have in terms of experience and depth
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A very tough schedule?
We are not even projected to be in the top 80 in overall sos this year.
Once again, we have failed to be in the top 60 or better.
There is way too much focus on meeting the budget and making money, and not nearly enough focus on what is best for the men's basketball program.
UD did a good job getting in a tough exempt tournament, but then they inexplicably botched it by scheduling 7, count 'em 7, buy games. We should never, ever be playing 7 buy games in today's day and age when the A10 is getting weaker.
We are not even in the top 3 in overall sos in the A10 this year. We should be #1 or #2 every single year.
VCU, St. Joe's, and Davidson all play a tougher schedule.
Why are we continually allowing our A10 foes to beat us in scheduling?
VCU...30
St. Joe's...50
Davidson...57
Dayton...82
http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_atl10_Men.html
Last edited by ud2; 01-21-2019 at 11:41 AM..
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01-21-2019, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
A very tough schedule?
We are not even projected to be #80 in overall sos this year.
Once again, we have failed to be in the top 60 or better.
UD did a good job getting in a tough exempt tournament, but then they inexplicably botched it by scheduling 7, count 'em 7, buy games. We should never, ever be playing 7 buy games in today's day and age when the A10 is getting weaker.
We are not even in the top 3 in overall sos in the A10 this year. We should be #1 or #2 every single year.
VCU, Davidson and St. Joe's all play a tougher schedule.
Why are we continually allowing our A10 foes to beat us in scheduling?
VCU...50
Davidson...55
St. Joe's...56
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Scheduling is a tough balance, that has to coincide with the team/roster you have in the wings and where you realistically think that team could/should be. How's that working out for 8-10 St. Joe's?
Nit-picking at our strength of schedule is just that, nit-picking. UD's strength of schedule is never really an issue. Your post makes it sound like we put together an embarrassing schedule. A down A10 (we don't control that schedule) is really contributing to what will be a somewhat lower SOS at year end. Out of conference, we scheduled pretty well and got "lucky" with the opportunities we earned in the Bahamas.
Could we have replaced a buy game or two with a new home and home series? Quality home and homes are tough to come by. And UD needs a certain number of home games to make the economics work for athletics.
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01-21-2019, 12:16 PM
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General of the Air Force
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https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-ba...e-sos-by-other
The only thing we have control over is the non-conference SoS. According to this site Dayton has a very respectable 43 ranking when comparing non con strength of schedules. We cannot do much better than that.
Same site has VCU at 35 Davidson at 62 and SJ at 88. Also has St. Louis at 77.
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Last edited by cj; 01-21-2019 at 12:32 PM..
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01-21-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
A very tough schedule?
We are not even projected to be in the top 80 in overall sos this year.
Once again, we have failed to be in the top 60 or better.
There is way too much focus on meeting the budget and making money, and not nearly enough focus on what is best for the men's basketball program.
UD did a good job getting in a tough exempt tournament, but then they inexplicably botched it by scheduling 7, count 'em 7, buy games. We should never, ever be playing 7 buy games in today's day and age when the A10 is getting weaker.
We are not even in the top 3 in overall sos in the A10 this year. We should be #1 or #2 every single year.
VCU, St. Joe's, and Davidson all play a tougher schedule.
Why are we continually allowing our A10 foes to beat us in scheduling?
VCU...30
St. Joe's...50
Davidson...57
Dayton...82
http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_atl10_Men.html
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As usual, you not only repeat yourself to the point of no return, you twist the facts to support a straw-man argument. As you know full well, Dayton can only control its non-con schedule. The NCAA has Dayton with the 43rd toughest non-con schedule right now, bested in the A-10 only by VCU at 35. Davidson is at 62 and St. Louis at 77. Doesn’t sound like anyone beat us in scheduling. You want to ignore exempt tourneys as if Dayton had nothing to do with getting them on the schedule even though other A-10 teams do exactly the same thing.
I mean, honestly, aren’t you the slightest bit tired of perpetuating your two grudges — that Dayton needs a 15/15 sked and Grant can’t coach? I sure am. I wouldn’t be surprised if three-quarters of your posts are about those two “subjects.” You give the word monotonous new meaning.
Edit: I see where CJ beat me with the non-con rankings. So now I’m monotonous. :-)
Last edited by The Fly; 01-21-2019 at 12:43 PM..
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01-21-2019, 12:47 PM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by ud2
A very tough schedule?
We are not even projected to be in the top 80 in overall sos this year.
Once again, we have failed to be in the top 60 or better.
There is way too much focus on meeting the budget and making money, and not nearly enough focus on what is best for the men's basketball program.
UD did a good job getting in a tough exempt tournament, but then they inexplicably botched it by scheduling 7, count 'em 7, buy games. We should never, ever be playing 7 buy games in today's day and age when the A10 is getting weaker.
We are not even in the top 3 in overall sos in the A10 this year. We should be #1 or #2 every single year.
VCU, St. Joe's, and Davidson all play a tougher schedule.
Why are we continually allowing our A10 foes to beat us in scheduling?
VCU...30
St. Joe's...50
Davidson...57
Dayton...82
http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_atl10_Men.html
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Wash, rinse, repeat.
Give it ALL a break.
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01-21-2019, 01:01 PM
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Major
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I've been following/posting on various sports boards for over 15 years and there are always several schmucks on every board. All they want is attention, and will say whatever it takes to get it. Using their names, replying to them and engaging with them feeds their craving and only makes it worse. They are lonely, unhappy and bitter men. I know it's hard, but if everyone were to literally ignore what they post they will eventually just go away. I've seen it done, but it takes a group effort which is usually impossible.
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01-21-2019, 01:47 PM
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Using kenpom win probability data, I would argue for the 2018-2019 season, AG has been slightly above average in close games.
Analyzed all games during the 2018-2019 season and used data from kenpom in-game win probability charts at 10 minutes left in 2H and 5 minutes left in 2H. The win probability adjusts for quality of opponent and location of the game. If Dayton had a 75% chance to win with 10 minutes left, their expected wins were .75. Then broke the games into two buckets, (1) all games; and (2) close games which were UMass, GW, VCU, Bonnie's, Ms St., Butler, and OK (yes I excluded UVA as Dayton had a 5% win probability at 10 minutes and 7% at 5 minutes).
(1) All Games -- AG expected season wins with 10 minutes to go in the 2H = 11.62 and with 5 minutes = 11.97. Actual wins as everyone knows = 12.
(2) Close Games -- (UMass, GW, VCU, Bonnie's, Ms. St., Butler, and OK) = 3.72 expected wins with 10 minutes to go in 2H and 4.0 expected wins with 5 minutes to go in 2H. Actual wins as everyone knows = 4.
For the 2018-2019 season only, AG is a slightly above average coach in close games based upon this analysis.
Before the St. Bonnies game, season expected wins at 10 minutes to go in 2H = 11.46 and at 5 minutes to go in 2H = 11.76 and had won 11 games. Close games at 10 minutes to go in 2H = 3.56 and 5 minutes to go in 2H = 3.79 and had won 3 games. So prior to St. Bonnie's game AG was slightly below average in close games during 2018-2019 season.
Would have to analyze all 11 years of game data (kenpom does not have in-game win probability for AG's VCU seasons so really 8 years of data) to dig into AG's close game coaching over his career. If someone has time for this, would be really interesting.
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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01-21-2019, 03:30 PM
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General
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I tend to agree with ud2 and think there's shortcomings in AG's coaching but I think the biggest problem in these close games this year is a lack of play makers on the offensive end.
Who in the last couple minutes on this team can step up and make a tough, contested shot. In the game against the Bonnies, Jordan Davis made a tough 3 to bury them.
Looking back to a game like Dayton-Davidson 2 years ago, Scoochie scores 11 points in OT and puts the team on his back. Or Jordan Sibert with all his big makes.
The microcosm of the close games this season to me is the Mississippi State game. I think it is what about 2 minutes left in a tie game and Lamar Peters drills a contested a 3 with a defender draped all over him to give them the lead. Mikesell has a chance to hit a 3 to tie with under a minute left and misses
Take away the easy shot in the paint and force someone to make a jumper for Dayton and the odds are gonna be against us
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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01-21-2019, 03:32 PM
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General
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depending on how good some of the transfers are based off what I've seen I could see only guy currently starting keeping his job next year
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01-21-2019, 03:55 PM
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Looking backwards I would tend to agree that we never knew who was going to close out a game for us. But now we could be on to something bigger. Jalen craves the ball in the clutch and hit a couple for us. Trey did not hesitate to go to the hoop hard. Jordan ..wow. None of them are bashful about shooting. The secret to crunch time is sharing the ball so you aren't force to throw up something ugly. Make the extra pass. Have your feet set to receive the pass and shoot. Mikesell needs to square up and let it loose. Our playmakers are developing.
Unfortunately there is only one BRob.
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01-21-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
depending on how good some of the transfers are based off what I've seen I could see only guy currently starting keeping his job next year
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Please clarify. Have you seen the transfers play in practice?
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01-21-2019, 03:59 PM
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Brigadier General
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To some, Grant is like Trump. There is always a way to twist opinions and omit facts when it does not fit the narrative. This applies for those who like or hate either Grant or Trump.
I for one, think it is too soon to judge Grant. Let's see what he does the rest of the year and next year with the recruits. As for Trump, I try to stay apolitcal as hard as it may be. I would like to see a wall... on defending the best shooter on the other team. Stockard had way too many clean looks.
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01-21-2019, 04:07 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by jack72
Please clarify. Have you seen the transfers play in practice?
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“Depending on how good” is the key part of the senate
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01-21-2019, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
A very tough schedule?
We are not even projected to be in the top 80 in overall sos this year.
Once again, we have failed to be in the top 60 or better.
There is way too much focus on meeting the budget and making money, and not nearly enough focus on what is best for the men's basketball program.
UD did a good job getting in a tough exempt tournament, but then they inexplicably botched it by scheduling 7, count 'em 7, buy games. We should never, ever be playing 7 buy games in today's day and age when the A10 is getting weaker.
We are not even in the top 3 in overall sos in the A10 this year. We should be #1 or #2 every single year.
VCU, St. Joe's, and Davidson all play a tougher schedule.
Why are we continually allowing our A10 foes to beat us in scheduling?
VCU...30
St. Joe's...50
Davidson...57
Dayton...82
http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_atl10_Men.html
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You asked someone to be specific in listing posts of yours he had a problem with. Well, here is another one. Twisted/misleading facts, more droning on about the schedule, etc.
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01-21-2019, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan
To some, Grant is like Trump. There is always a way to twist opinions and omit facts when it does not fit the narrative. This applies for those who like or hate either Grant or Trump.
I for one, think it is too soon to judge Grant. Let's see what he does the rest of the year and next year with the recruits. As for Trump, I try to stay apolitcal as hard as it may be. I would like to see a wall... on defending the best shooter on the other team. Stockard had way too many clean looks.
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Exactly.... going to make UD great again!
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01-21-2019, 10:12 PM
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Imagine how much happier we'd be if we had the #4 Non-Con SOS....oh wait we've tried that and had the same fan misery index.
__________________
Hot shooting hides a multitude of sins.
"Yeah....220, 221, whatever it takes." - Jack Butler (Mr. Mom)
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01-22-2019, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
depending on how good some of the transfers are based off what I've seen I could see only guy currently starting keeping his job next year
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I'm assuming you mean you could only see "one" current starter starting next year? If so, I doubt that very much.Not that starting is that huge of a deal, though. Obviously, Crutcher is starting and unless a complete cluster-f___k happens, who is going to start ahead of a much-rejuvenated and experienced Jordan Davis as his light has come on. I doubt very much Trey Landers gets put on the bench as a senior and as a glue guy who energizes this team. Based on how the rest of this season goes, I could see Mikesell as a 6th/7th man next year.
There will definitely be mpg reduced for 2-3 players with experience,talent and a full bench at CAG's disposal.
Last edited by steve; 01-22-2019 at 08:28 AM..
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01-22-2019, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan
To some, Grant is like Trump. There is always a way to twist opinions and omit facts when it does not fit the narrative. This applies for those who like or hate either Grant or Trump.
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That's way too radical. A FEW twisted people may not approve of Anthony as a person, but very few. Many more may want to see him change his strategies. No one on this MB, including maddog and udscott want him to fail.
Millions dislike Don Trump as a person, and even more dislike his style and decisions.
Comparing Anthony Grant to Donald Trump is ludicrous.
I would vote for both of them again, but for much different reasons. We have no radical left attacking AG personally.
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01-22-2019, 11:13 AM
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If ifs and buts were coconuts, the world would be a happier place Or something like that.
Baring injury, hard to see a world where Crutcher isn't starting.
If the Jordan Davis we've seen the last 4 games is what he is going forward (and kind of what I expected him to be after a stellar frosh season) hard to envision him not starting again.
Landers - Mikesell both are "glue" guys, however 2 starting glue guys at time seems too sticky. Landers provides physicallity and toughness, Mikesell has more range and versatility. I could see one of them coming off the bench next year, but doubt both do.
So that leave's Josh's starting spot and perhaps one more, but I doubt we see 4 new starters; I'd venture that would be more problematic if that were to occur (ie transfers or injuries)
Of the new/other guys, Chatman seems destined for a backup role though I could see him and Jalen in the lineup together. He had too many turnovers a soph at Chattanooga, but otherwise his numbers were very solid, likely the best PG combo in the league next year.
Cohill hasn't been as good as I hoped (perhaps that top 100 ranking set my expectations too high) but seems like he has a ton of potential. I'd like to see him get more aggressive on the offensive end.
Who knows where Matos will stand after healing, but seems like another "glue" guy that can do a bit of everything, but nothing exceptional.
Can Watson shoot? He was terrible as a frosh, less than acceptable as a soph in limited minutes at Michigan. Can he transform his game and turn into a reliable outside shooter like Siebert did after leaving OSU? He's got a ton of athletic ability.
Jordy is a mountain of a man, and was highly ranking coming out of HS IIRC, but his stats at Nebraska were nothing to get excited about. Will Chase Johnson be healthy? Will Obi continue to develop. I expect to see 2 of these guys starting next year (one for Josh, one for either Landers or Mikesell) but that will require either Jordy to improve and/or Chase to be healthy.
Then there is the frosh by way of Georgia, no clue but reports were that he's a good to great rebounder but is a project on the offensive end.
Seems like the odds of only have 1 new starter (Obi) are better than the odds of UD having 3 new starters.
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01-22-2019, 11:17 AM
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I think the question is not starting but playing time. With that depth, you won't see Jalen and Jordan playing 37-38 minutes a game. More like 25-30. The minutes across the board will be distributed more.
You might see a different style of play as well. Faster pace, more pressing, more hard nosed, trapping in your face defense.
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01-22-2019, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan
I think the question is not starting but playing time. With that depth, you won't see Jalen and Jordan playing 37-38 minutes a game. More like 25-30. The minutes across the board will be distributed more.
You might see a different style of play as well. Faster pace, more pressing, more hard nosed, trapping in your face defense.
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I agree. I have to believe AG would like to pick up the tempo but is afraid to do so because of the limited bench.
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01-22-2019, 11:49 AM
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Jalen, Jordan and Trey seem to be "AG's guys". Not that he doesn't like his other players but its been pretty clear over the last two years that he loves what those three bring to the table. I believe the three of them will definitely be starters next year (barring injury; need to put that in or someone will call you out if they are hurt and not starting).
As for minutes played, I agree guys will not have to play as many minutes per game as currently, but it won't surprise me much if Jalen is still at about 35 mpg next year. He seems to really be the one AG has put his faith in to lead this team.
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01-22-2019, 01:12 PM
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I've wondered about Watson's shooting as well. He's shooting something like 22% 3FG for his career (in obviously very limited minutes).
Then I saw this which gave me some comfort: https://mobile.twitter.com/mikecorey...36365980299264
Also, JSTOST (Jordan Sibert the Ohio State Transfer, his official roster name seemingly) shot 26% in very limited action.
Man I sure hope their careers (and 3FG%) have similar trajectories. UD needs some shooters next year.
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01-22-2019, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic
W in 2 OT.
Discuss....
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So I guess the VCU didn't happen now?
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01-22-2019, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford
If ifs and buts were coconuts, the world would be a happier place Or something like that.
Baring injury,
Seems like the odds of only have 1 new starter (Obi) are better than the odds of UD having 3 new starters.
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This.
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01-22-2019, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sheg
I've wondered about Watson's shooting as well. He's shooting something like 22% 3FG for his career (in obviously very limited minutes).
Then I saw this which gave me some comfort: https://mobile.twitter.com/mikecorey...36365980299264
Also, JSTOST (Jordan Sibert the Ohio State Transfer, his official roster name seemingly) shot 26% in very limited action.
Man I sure hope their careers (and 3FG%) have similar trajectories. UD needs some shooters next year.
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Encouraging, thanks for posting.
JSOST had a wrist injury right before enrolling at OSU, might have explained his poor shooting %, though I'm sure he worked on that aspect of his game a ton as well.
Don't know that backstory on Watson, he was terrible as a frosh, like 1-22, then a respectable 32.7% or something like that IIRC from what I saw earlier. Certainly not great, but a huge leap for a guy with limited minutes. If he can get to the 35%+ mark with a solid number of attempts that would be solid.
If UD could have that kind of shooter, plus even better shooters in Crutch and Jordan out there at the same time, it could really open things inside for Obi and Chase next year to attack the rim.
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01-23-2019, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
Imagine how much happier we'd be if we had the #4 Non-Con SOS....oh wait we've tried that and had the same fan misery index.
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We've debunked Non-Con SOS
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01-23-2019, 05:03 PM
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Chatman I don't think came here to be a 5-10 minute player off of the bench. I don't think AG would have taken him or he would have come if there wasn't a belief that he could play alongside Crutcher. Maybe I've missed it but it seems like I've seen AG single him out for praise more than the other transfers and Chris R has said he's someone who can attack the basket and make things happen on offense (which is in short supply currently). AG I believe (maybe it was Chris) said he could be disruptive on the defensive end.
Watson is a guy who's the best athlete to come into Dayton since Chris Wright. His vertical set the Michigan record. The athletic ability is there but the question is his basketball skill. I've seen a couple videos like Sheg posted of him shooting and he looks like he has a good stroke. He's also got a reputation of being a very hard worker. A 6'5 guy with his athletic ability is an asset for sticking at the top of a zone or switching on man to man defense. He should be able to be a versatile defender.
Jordy, I don't know too much about but at 6'11 270 he's gonna be bigger than every big man he runs into in the A10. He had 10 & 8 against Kansas and 15 & 9 against Michigan State as a freshman.
I could see only Crutcher keeping his starting job IF these guys turn out to be players. None of the transfers came to Dayton to bench players and this is their shot to be able to make an impact in college hoops.
I like Jordan Davis but the team can't afford his shot to disappear for the OOC schedule again. With the depth next year, I'm not sure you let him play his way through an extended slump.
Not an indictment of the current players being bad but a potential testament to the talent upgraded by AG. Vee Sanford went from starting to being a super sub his junior to senior years.
No matter what happens I think the competition is gonna push everyone to be better players.
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01-23-2019, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
I agree. I have to believe AG would like to pick up the tempo but is afraid to do so because of the limited bench.
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I think guys can be more aggressive on defense because they know there's some depth behind them. This year everyone really has to be aware of their foul situation so it's possible they can't gamble as much on defense
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01-23-2019, 05:21 PM
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I see Chatman as a Josh Parker addition. Someone that can run tandem like he did with Rob Lowery. Both guys complimented one another and usually one of them had the hot hand.
__________________
Hot shooting hides a multitude of sins.
"Yeah....220, 221, whatever it takes." - Jack Butler (Mr. Mom)
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01-23-2019, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R
I see Chatman as a Josh Parker addition. Someone that can run tandem like he did with Rob Lowery. Both guys complimented one another and usually one of them had the hot hand.
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I agree Chatman will get his share of run but I'm guessing it will be alongside Crutcher more than it will be in lieu of Crutcher's minutes.
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01-23-2019, 09:05 PM
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Not sure who is worse in close games at the end, Grant or Crutcher. Both cannot get it done. Maybe Grant draws up the plays which the players don't execute, but Crutcher just flat out shows no leadership. He keeps thinking the next three will go in to win the game, and sure someday it will, but in the meantime... We scored zero points in the last three minutes.
Interesting we beat Bonnie with Crutcher out of the game.
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01-23-2019, 09:06 PM
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We need better perimeter players on offense
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01-23-2019, 09:19 PM
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Let’s face this team looks worn out , and spurts of energy is all you see now!
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01-23-2019, 09:22 PM
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Agree... posted several times... season was lost in the summer... can’t start with 9 guys.... really 8.
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01-23-2019, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
Not sure who is worse in close games at the end, Grant or Crutcher. Both cannot get it done. Maybe Grant draws up the plays which the players don't execute, but Crutcher just flat out shows no leadership. He keeps thinking the next three will go in to win the game, and sure someday it will, but in the meantime... We scored zero points in the last three minutes.
Interesting we beat Bonnie with Crutcher out of the game.
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Don't agree with this...as Crutcher is a great player. I do question leaning on any group of permiter players to win a game when they are less than 30% on the day from 3.
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01-23-2019, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
Not sure who is worse in close games at the end, Grant or Crutcher. Both cannot get it done. Maybe Grant draws up the plays which the players don't execute, but Crutcher just flat out shows no leadership. He keeps thinking the next three will go in to win the game, and sure someday it will, but in the meantime... We scored zero points in the last three minutes.
Interesting we beat Bonnie with Crutcher out of the game.
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We also beat GW and UMass with clutch plays from him down the stretch. Maybe you forgot about those.
If you are trying to say that we are better with Crutcher off the floor, even in crunch time, then you have been watching a different team.
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01-23-2019, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
You don't want to but you will.
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Any words of wisdom for me now? This is becoming a trend
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01-23-2019, 09:34 PM
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Whoa..... I like Crutcher and he is good but let’s not call him “great”
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01-23-2019, 09:34 PM
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All I know is this team unable to close out a game. Period. I think Crutcher tries to do too much, frequently. Anytime we see a timeout play call, I feel the "pucker effect" settle in because odds are, it will be a garbage play. Trey is a team captain, but completely unreliable in crunch time.
This team is one of the most frustrating Flyer teams I've ever watched. I don't trust the players or the staff. I have not been given a reason to.
I'll give it two more years. Next year is a full team with tons of new faces, then the following year to take hold. Beyond that, if we aren't competing, I'm in favor for a clean slate.
In the meantime, this year is done.
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01-23-2019, 09:38 PM
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Everyone of those transfers is going to have a chance to get a starting job next year
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01-23-2019, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen
All I know is this team unable to close out a game. Period. I think Crutcher tries to do too much, frequently. Anytime we see a timeout play call, I feel the "pucker effect" settle in because odds are, it will be a garbage play. Trey is a team captain, but completely unreliable in crunch time.
This team is one of the most frustrating Flyer teams I've ever watched. I don't trust the players or the staff. I have not been given a reason to.
I'll give it two more years. Next year is a full team with tons of new faces, then the following year to take hold. Beyond that, if we aren't competing, I'm in favor for a clean slate.
In the meantime, this year is done.
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Guess you didn't follow or watch last year's team.
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01-23-2019, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen
All I know is this team unable to close out a game. Period. I think Crutcher tries to do too much, frequently. Anytime we see a timeout play call,
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Problem is this...
Who else can score off the bounce?
With that said...the plays are drawn up for that.
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01-23-2019, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
Don't agree with this...as Crutcher is a great player. I do question leaning on any group of permiter players to win a game when they are less than 30% on the day from 3.
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That was not the last play drawn up by AG. GM knew what was coming and squashed it. That trey attempt was a hail Mary last sec desperation shot.
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01-23-2019, 09:47 PM
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We need to steal a road win now. Sky us not falling were a head of this year's predictions.
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01-23-2019, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
Problem is this...
Who else can score off the bounce?
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I think this is the big problem with the team. Good interior scoring but too many role players outside of that. Role players are good and needed but gifted play makers put this team over the top in theses close games
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01-23-2019, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer
That was not the last play drawn up by AG. GM knew what was coming and squashed it. That trey attempt was a hail Mary last sec desperation shot.
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It was according to AG. In the postgame he said the play was for Mikesell to take it to the hole or kick it out to Crutcher for the three, which is what happened.
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01-23-2019, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross
It was according to AG. In the postgame he said the play was for Mikesell to take it to the hole or kick it out to Crutcher for the three, which is what happened.
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You forgot the part about a feed to Obi in the post being Option 1. Crutcher with a drive to the hole was Option 2. Mikesell going baseline was Option 3, and what we saw transpire (Crutcher with a heave) was Option 4. And yes, I heard the postgame in my car on the way home. What we saw was Plan D.
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01-23-2019, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross
It was according to AG. In the postgame he said the play was for Mikesell to take it to the hole or kick it out to Crutcher for the three, which is what happened.
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That jives with the TO called to get the ball on the other side. It gets Mikesell driving to the hoop right handed.
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01-23-2019, 10:39 PM
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I would have been happy if Mikesell would have taken the ball clear to the hole! I believe George Mason collapsed on him and cut him off but he could have pulled up and shot a jumper from the elbow which is a heck of a lot better than Crutcher's rushed 3 pointer! If he missed Obi could maybe have tipped it in!
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01-23-2019, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Avid Flyer
That was not the last play drawn up by AG. GM knew what was coming and squashed it. That trey attempt was a hail Mary last sec desperation shot.
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The defense overloaded all options on the ball side of the court. I think we agree, but not the road to get there. I understand that the first options weren't the 3 ball...but that is where we are ending up on most crunch time plays. We don't have the shooters or scorers to rely on that option the majority of the time. Out of timeouts we are ending up with one of the last options a good portion of the time. I don't buy the fact that our guys are that bad or the defenses are that good that we are forced into "not good" looks from 22 feet more often than not.
Much of it is personnel, but we have seen that this team has the best shot as a bucket when the interior is utilized...even forced.
This teams options need to focus on the post 1 and 2...then the rest.
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01-23-2019, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
You forgot the part about a feed to Obi in the post being Option 1. Crutcher with a drive to the hole was Option 2. Mikesell going baseline was Option 3, and what we saw transpire (Crutcher with a heave) was Option 4. And yes, I heard the postgame in my car on the way home. What we saw was Plan D.
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That's correct. The point was that getting the ball to Mikesell driving to hoop or kicking to Crutcher was part of the play drawn up by AG.
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01-24-2019, 02:35 AM
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Anthony Grant was the right hire and has the program headed in the right direction.
But I can still hate the the last play and the execution of it. See thread with 4-5 tweets including still pictures and video.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TomEggeme...87928743149569
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01-24-2019, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin
Anthony Grant was the right hire and has the program headed in the right direction.
But I can still hate the the last play and the execution of it. See thread with 4-5 tweets including still pictures and video.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TomEggeme...87928743149569
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That entire Twitter post is spot on.
The only thing not half assed about the set and the execution of the set was Mikesell's attempt at the basket.
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01-24-2019, 07:44 AM
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One of the things that I observed on the series of videos is the "timing" of the play. Obi made his move, and was initially open for a pass, before either Mikesell or Crutcher could hit him with a pass. It appears to me that Obi made his cut too early and by the time either of the above players could get a pass to him, his defender recovered. That essentially took Obi out of the play. There was a lack of coordination and timing involved in the play.
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01-24-2019, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin
Anthony Grant was the right hire and has the program headed in the right direction.
But I can still hate the the last play and the execution of it. See thread with 4-5 tweets including still pictures and video.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TomEggeme...87928743149569
Posted via Mobile Device
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Love the analysis in this Twitter post. I especially liked the comment about crashing the glass. You can see Josh and Jordan clearly under the basket; Josh with a body on his man, and Jordan with a clear lane. But that was only good if the shot had gone long, and it didn’t. Boxing out is a weakness of this team, and it was one of a handful of things that cost us on that last play.
By contrast, I’ve watched the replay of “The Shot” by Ed Young countless times, and one of the things that impresses me about it is that you can see all 4 non-shooters in Dayton uniforms getting in position for a rebound. So, if The Shot had missed, there was still the chance of a stickback. Not so with our last shot last night.
One last comment, after further review of the video. If Obi had come off the baseline, and come up the right side of the lane a couple of feet, then he would have been in better position to receive a pass from Mikesell on that drive, without forcing a double-team on Mikesell. Then, with his height advantage, Mikesell could have lobbed it to Obi, and he still would have had time for a move to the hoop. As it was, Obi was buried so deep on the baseline that the GM defender was in the passing lane, and any entry pass from Mikesell would have been tipped.
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Last edited by T-Bone 84; 01-24-2019 at 07:56 AM..
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01-24-2019, 10:45 AM
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I love watching these guys play.
Their overall youth/inexperience has led to some poor end of game outcomes.
But IMHO I've never questioned their effort, maybe their execution,
but not effort.
I thought Keith Walieskowski (Spl?) was way out of line last night on the
WHIO Flanagan's post game show - questioning their effort. I disagree 100%
Go Flyers!!Flyers may have been sluggish - human? - but they gave it all they had.
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