Well, this was not good

[TXFlyerFan]

GMU is a pretty good team. They've won multiple road games. But the truth is, we should have won this game. Here's why we didn't.

15 Turnovers, 8-27 from 3, 5-26 from the starting guards, and 5-9 from FT (with several missed front ends of 1-1). That's why we lost. We should have found a way to pound it inside to Josh and Obi, who were 11-14 between the two of them. That they would only get 14 shots while Crutcher and Jordan take 26 is a travesty. And as much as I like Trey, one of our biggest problems is we are essentially playing 4 on 5 on offense. Not much we can do unless we go to three guards or put Policelli in.

I know Davis hit a couple late threes, but that can't make up for all the missed scoring opportunities earlier. Add in the 15 turnovers, and that's just too many missed opportunities to score.

I hope this leaves a significantly bad taste in their mouth. You cannot shoot 5-26 anywhere, let alone at home.

[TommyGola]

I am convinced that there are two kinds of college players - good athletes and skilled basketball players. We lack skilled basketball players.

[Crunk Juice]

Bad loss, no doubt about it. Have to play for the tie at the end, especially as poorly as we shot the 3 ball all night.

When you are a home favorite, you play for Overtime. Taking a contested 3 for the win was a poor shot selection, in my opinion.

[FlyerBob]

On the post game show, Coach Grant laid out the options for the last play. That desperate heave from the arc was the 4th.

[TXFlyerFan]

Once Mikesell was cut off, he should have immediately passed out. He hesitated, which allowed the GM defender to close in. If he makes the pass without the delay, it's a better shot. Still may miss, but defender wouldn't have time to contest.

[The Fly]

Jalen is good, but Scoochie would have driven the paint. He had another four seconds to put the ball on the floor but he settled for a contested trey when we only needed two. I honestly think our PG wants to play hero sometimes at the expense of executing what’s drawn up, hence all those last-second first-half heaves where no one else even gets a touch.

[frisco flyer]

Originally Posted by Crunk Juice Bad loss, no doubt about it. Have to play for the tie at the end, especially as poorly as we shot the 3 ball all night. When you are a home favorite, you play for Overtime. Taking a contested 3 for the win was a poor shot selection, in my opinion.

AG said on the post game interview that there were three other options (all for 2 pointers) and that three was option 4. Either the defense was awesome and took all these options away, or our execusion was poor. I did not watch the game, so I will reserve judgment.

[Crunk Juice]

Not sure I buy there were 4 options on that final shot. There wasn't that much action on the play from what I recall ... Mikesell drove to his right and kicked to Jalen and he took the contested three.

I wan't really a fan of the double-timeout. Run a quick set, if it is not there, then call the final timeout and set up something else. 15 seconds is plenty of time for that.

I'm an AG fan ... not a hater like some on this board, but I'm guessing he was less than pleased with that final shot. Crutcher should have tried to create something rather than playing hero ball and heaving a contested three.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by The Fly Jalen is good, but Scoochie would have driven the paint. He had another four seconds to put the ball on the floor but he settled for a contested trey when we only needed two. I honestly think our PG wants to play hero sometimes at the expense of executing what’s drawn up, hence all those last-second first-half heaves where no one else even gets a touch.

Not to totally excuse Jalen but I feel like at times he forces it this year because of a lack of help on the perimeter

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer AG said on the post game interview that there were three other options (all for 2 pointers) and that three was option 4. Either the defense was awesome and took all these options away, or our execusion was poor. I did not watch the game, so I will reserve judgment.

AG said on the postgame that GM took away a feed to Obi (Option 1) and a drive by Crutcher (Option 2). Mikesell attempted Option 3, but something happened (can’t remember exactly what AG said) to eliminate that possibility, so we had to settle for Crutcher’s heave (Option 4). And we all know how that went.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Flyer 86]

Talk about last minute and last shot, who cares.

5 for 26 from our 2 guards is all I need to read. There is at least 10 lost points right there. And that would still mean a crappy 10 for 26 shooting night.

Stunningly bad. Exactly please get it in to obi and JOSH. PRRETTY PLEASE?

[SeasonTicketFan]

The offense was flat all night long. I am not sure it was GM defense. During the first few minutes, UD ran through it like butter. Then they stalled for the rest of the night.

Jalen played 38 minutes tonight. I think Anthony is calling his number at the end of each game. The others are standing around and Jalen looks fatigued. This is 5 close games tight in the last minute in a row.

Please don't tell me that players can play 38 minutes with no drop off or fatigue.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan The offense was flat all night long. I am not sure it was GM defense. During the first few minutes, UD ran through it like butter. Then they stalled for the rest of the night. Jalen played 38 minutes tonight. I think Anthony is calling his number at the end of each game. The others are standing around and Jalen looks fatigued. This is 5 close games tight in the last minute in a row. Please don't tell me that players can play 38 minutes with no drop off or fatigue.

You are right about everything here. But that fatigue is why we have to pound the ball inside, especially in the second half.

This team has two of the better post players in the league. GMU's big moved around like a 50 year old dude in a pickup game and we didn't abuse the paint. GMU went 9 deep I think with 3 of those guys rotating constantly in the paint. We burnt the skinny kid late in the game and he was pulled.

This game wasn't lost in the last minute, that is for sure. I said it elsewhere, the interior has to be utilized more often than not. The final play was a post play option 1, the rest were all dribbles and drives. As you mention, the fatigue lowers the success rate of anything other than Obi or Josh inside. That was evident in the Obi OOB play last Saturday.

[SeasonTicketFan]

Josh took a bit of beating during the second half. I would like to see him and Obi fight a bit harder for low post position. Having said that, the refs seemed to allow GM to "let them play" inside during most of the game. Josh took some awkward blows. He was also hurting at game end. I don't think he was close to 100% but went back in anyway.

Also, The ball could rotate faster than the sagging defense. Ball movement was slow all night long.

The numerous outside shots allowed GM to pack it in a bit. They dared Trey to take a 3 and it was not pretty. Jordan and Jalen missed open shots in the first half and that helped set the offensive tone. Hit 2-3 (3 or 4 of 14 instead of 1 for 14) and the game is totally different. They were tight all night long.

[Chris R]

Dave Paulsen's FT defense and layup defense was stellar tonight. Gifted away 20-25pts off the scoreboard through no doing on Mason's part. You can only get away with being Santa Claus for so long. Sooner or later you have to make layups, FTs, and wide open threes or accept the peril that comes with it. The last possession was just filler as far as Im concerned. Im more aggravated at the first 36 minutes. I was telling people around me at the 12:00 mark of the first half that all these flushed points were going to catch up with us. The flushing continued through the half, into the second half, and cost us a W. We had enough good looks from the field to bludgeon Mason by three touchdowns. That we only shot in the mid 40s is a testament to just good those missed opportunities were.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by Chris R Dave Paulsen's FT defense and layup defense was stellar tonight. Gifted away 20-25pts off the scoreboard tonight through no doing on Mason's part. You can only get away with being Santa Claus for so long. Sooner or later you have to make layups, FTs, and wide open threes or accept the peril that comes with it. The last possession was just filler as far as Im concerned. Im more aggravated at the first 36 minutes.

Getting to the line 9 times isn't Paulsen's doing, that's on UD

[TXFlyerFan]

How many front-ends did we miss? At least two, so there's potentially two more FT attempts. Could have been even more, but we just can't shoot FTs with any consistency. Or at least, some of the team can't.

[Flyer 86]

Fatigue yes. But we need admit that Jalen isnt scoochie. Scooch would "find a way", usually by driving and creating. Later in career, more late game deep threes. There is still a large difference between the 2 players.

Jalen is mostly good. Has to work on perimeter dribble and then shoot thing at end of shot clock.
Scoochie had an agressive plan to attack.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Chris R The last possession was just filler as far as Im concerned. Im more aggravated at the first 36 minutes.

It was...the game was lost much earlier than the last few possessions... no one mentions something that GMU did and UD didn't do all night.

HEDGE A SCREEN

GMU hedged all screens, which puts teams into a position to not get good looks in a flow. Therefore, shooters end up shooting 3 balls elsewhere in the offense. That contributed to poor perimeter shooting and we failed to get the ball on the roll on the hedge.

UD on the other hand, doesn't hedge anything. The guard trails through the pick and the post flattens guarding the cutter. Unfortunately in this case, it negates any defensive intensity and we are always on our heels.

People want to mention FT's. 5-9 from the line didn't lose the game...the simple fact we only shot 9 FT's is more telling. Refusal to attack and draw fouls.

[OSU Flyer]

Duquesne went to the line 38 times tonight
Posted via Mobile Device

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Duquesne went to the line 38 times tonight Posted via Mobile Device

And if they do that when we travel to Pittsburgh we will get toasted.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[Chris R]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Getting to the line 9 times isn't Paulsen's doing, that's on UD

The number taken wasnt the problem. It was the number missed. 5-11 doesnt get it done. That's 2-3 baskets. That alone is the difference, nevermind the numerous missed chip shots from 3ft, the numerous wide open missed treys, and the untimely and numerous TOs. Its all aggregate but even in this game any one of them done with excellence would have changed the outcome, let alone all of them.

On another note, I think this is another result where the presence of Matos may have also flipped a result. Mason dribble-drived on us at will. Matos was pretty solid at helping to stop such a thing, especially in the Bahamas. He Hes longer than Cohill and Crutcher (and maybe Davis?) and takes some defensive pressure off of them and adds another 5 fouls he can take away from those guys so they dont have to matador it as much.

[BeckysTXA]

You like to keep your turnovers to 10 or less. We had 14. Not horrific, but needed to be better. But when you shoot 56% from the line in a close game it does you in. So many of those were the front end of 1-1.

All that said, I still like this team because it is so young and so thin on....I was going to type depth, but really it’s so thin on bodies of any kind. Most people were predicting 12-6 in the A10. That was with Matos and Chris is right, he looked like a valuable set of skills early that we could have used in our two A10 losses. It is was it is and I know everyone hates a home loss, but I’m not down on this young team.

[Browns]

This loss isn't a concern to me because AG is has proven history in close games (St. Bonaventure last week) and we're "ahead of schedule." Also, they're tired.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Duquesne went to the line 38 times tonight Posted via Mobile Device

That implies a number of things, none of which we’ve done recently with any consistency. Among those are (1) taking the ball inside and drawing fouls in the act of shooting; and (2) making the front ends of 1-and-1s.

If you’re shooting 38 freebies, chances are good that most of the opponent’s first 6 fouls in each half were committed while one of your guys was getting a shot up. We draw fouls in the act, but not with a lot of consistency (a symptom of not utilizing post feeds and dribble drives more). Also, if you’re shooting 38 freebies, chances are good that you’re taking 2 shots nearly every time you get to the line. Obviously, free throw shooting hasn’t been a strength of this year’s team.
Posted via Mobile Device

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[udscott]

Originally Posted by Browns This loss isn't a concern to me because AG is has proven history in close games (St. Bonaventure last week) and we're "ahead of schedule." Also, they're tired.

r u being serious ? please please don't tell me AG is proven in close games when your talking about us beating teams with .300 winning percentages, those games should have never been close to begin with, also I'm sick and tired of hearing ahead of schedule, who's schedule ? please tell me where there was a schedule that said were ahead of, were an average team with an average coach with an average record with our best win vs a 12-7 team

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by shocka43 And if they do that when we travel to Pittsburgh we will get toasted.

For more reasons than one. SLU was whistled for 29 fouls last night. 29! If we get whistled 29 times in a game this year, we’re going to see walk-ons grabbing major minutes.

Also, I checked shooting percentages in that contest, and they were putrid. Neither team shot over 40% from the field, and the teams combined to shoot 8/49 from behind the arc. And Duquesne missed 13 of those 38 freebies, shooting @ 65% from the line. The box score looks like something from the 1950s, when it was unusual to have more than a couple of players shoot better than 40% from the field.
Posted via Mobile Device

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Jeff]

We didnt score in the last 3 minutes. That might have helped.

Not a new problem.

[bcross]

Originally Posted by Chris R The number taken wasnt the problem. It was the number missed. 5-11 doesnt get it done. That's 2-3 baskets. That alone is the difference, nevermind the numerous missed chip shots from 3ft, the numerous wide open missed treys, and the untimely and numerous TOs. Its all aggregate but even in this game any one of them done with excellence would have changed the outcome, let alone all of them.

The number taken is the concern because it is directly related to the larger issue of not attacking the rim and getting the ball inside. By settling for 3's, your not putting yourself in position to get to the line. We took 3 times as many 3-pointers as we did free throws. The added bonus to getting to the line is that it gives the guys a chance to catch their breathe.

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by Jeff We didnt score in the last 3 minutes. That might have helped. Not a new problem.

YES! THIS!

It's getting old .... very old.

Figgie may be able to show average time at end of games that are droughts ...

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Not to totally excuse Jalen but I feel like at times he forces it this year because of a lack of help on the perimeter

Maybe that, but subjectively I think Jalen has a burning desire to be the hero. He is a good kid and has above average talent, but he has a propensity to handle/hold the ball late in the game/shot clock until he is obviously the last option and no one can fault him working for a long 3 ball. He's got two good front court bigs with good hands. His #1 priority should be to get them the rock. ESPECIALLY in the clutch.

[flybye]

They don’t play with passion . They have spurts but don’t sustain the action. Our wins in conference are against teams with 6 and 18 record. Josh has 9 rebounds in the last 80 min ... he and Obi combined for 8 last nite. Looking at schedule last nite loss is huge, going to be very hard to finish Top 4. I was amazed at the easy baskets Otis got just driving by Jalen and Jordan and zero help defense. At this point even with mistakes. I would give Cohill kick nite playing time even in Treys spot at times. He defends and can get to the hoop he just needs confidence and Grant to trust him. Team needs changes ASAP.
Posted via Mobile Device

[flybye]

Sorry give Cohill more playing time...
Posted via Mobile Device

[Browns]

Originally Posted by udscott r u being serious ? please please don't tell me AG is proven in close games when your talking about us beating teams with .300 winning percentages, those games should have never been close to begin with, also I'm sick and tired of hearing ahead of schedule, who's schedule ? please tell me where there was a schedule that said were ahead of, were an average team with an average coach with an average record with our best win vs a 12-7 team

I've seen the AG year by year schedule. Year 3 we should be competing for an NIT bid and by year 4 a top 3 seed in the NIT. Obviously the ultimate goal is to win another NIT championship but I'm trying to keep expectations in check.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Duquesne went to the line 38 times tonight Posted via Mobile Device

14 of them were in the last 1:33 when SLU decided to play hack a Duke. It almost worked because they missed a bunch.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by Browns I've seen the AG year by year schedule. Year 3 we should be competing for an NIT bid and by year 4 a top 3 seed in the NIT. Obviously the ultimate goal is to win another NIT championship but I'm trying to keep expectations in check.

...and this is success????

[Piqua Flyer '66]

I enjoy watching these guys play.
Their youth has led to several end of game failures.
But I have never questioned their effort. Teams can
be sluggish, execute poorly, but that IMHO that does not mean they are not trying.
I though Keith Waleiskowski (Spl?) was 100% wrong to call out the
Flyers for not trying/being ready in the loss to GM.

Go Flyers!

[Piqua Flyer '66]

.....on WHIO post game show from Flanagan's.

[flybye]

He is spot on.... they do not give a full 40. You can tell by listening to Anthony that he would like more consistent effort. Team does not play hard enough on D . Players take plays off and the rebounding which is all effort has slipped. Guys Obi and Josh had 8 rebounds last nite. Not good enough at home with the min they played. . Trey at 6 4 works hard as Limited a talent he is and out rebounds both of them Almost every nite... all effort and toughness. Jalen is very weak on D , probably ask too much on offense on him. Let Cohill loose more time and shots...
Posted via Mobile Device

[SoTier Flyer]

Originally Posted by TommyGola ...and this is success????

I'm pretty sure Browns is being sarcastic.

[forego1]

by Browns:
"I've seen the AG year by year schedule. Year 3 we should be competing for an NIT bid and by year 4 a top 3 seed in the NIT..."

Originally Posted by TommyGola ...and this is success????

Laugh. Be realistic.

We were having to take a step down after AM. Perhaps UD took two or three steps down though. Success is one step up at a time. When the program is again up to where BG was, the next step is then conceivable.

Forgetting AM, I have reservations that the program will achieve the 'success' of the BG era. With the A-10 being substantially softer, I do think getting to the NCAAT a time or two is doable for AG (compared to BG 7 years). Whether UD wins a game there remains to be seen.

Whatever, I predict AG will have UD consistently atop the A-10, and is the fit the administration was looking for.

[Runnin' Rebel]

Every time Trey throws the ball inside to Josh or Obi, the man guarding Trey will double team the post... as Trey is no threat from outside.

Need to swing ball to other side of court, where there is at least a shooting threat to stop the double team.

Or... don't post down low on Trey's side, and let Trey take his man to the hoop.

Or... just let Trey post his man up down low.

[SLUFLYER]

Originally Posted by udscott r u being serious ? please please don't tell me AG is proven in close games when your talking about us beating teams with .300 winning percentages, those games should have never been close to begin with, also I'm sick and tired of hearing ahead of schedule, who's schedule ? please tell me where there was a schedule that said were ahead of, were an average team with an average coach with an average record with our best win vs a 12-7 team

If you're not astute enough to pick up on the clear fact that he wasn't being serious, then perhaps your privileges to post replies should be revoked?

I find it humorous that what was lost in his sarcasm is that his reply might suggest he could be disciple candidate of yours.

[flyerfanatic86]

Originally Posted by forego1 by Browns: "I've seen the AG year by year schedule. Year 3 we should be competing for an NIT bid and by year 4 a top 3 seed in the NIT..." Laugh. Be realistic. We were having to take a step down after AM. Perhaps UD took two or three steps down though. Success is one step up at a time. When the program is again up to where BG was, the next step is then conceivable. Forgetting AM, I have reservations that the program will achieve the 'success' of the BG era. With the A-10 being substantially softer, I do think getting to the NCAAT a time or two is doable for AG (compared to BG 7 years). Whether UD wins a game there remains to be seen. Whatever, I predict AG will have UD consistently atop the A-10, and is the fit the administration was looking for.

UD has consistently said its goal is to make the tournament more often than not and compete for advancement within the tournament. I hope the administration sticks to that and doesn't get comfortable with success that looks like "consistent byes in the A10 tournament." I know that Grant's coaching resume doesn't reflect this level of success, but I hope this is the perfect fit and it happens. Today, I'm skeptical.

[forego1]

Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 .... I'm skeptical.

No ****

[longtimefan]

Ohio State has lost five games in a row. They are going backward. Holtmann is terrible and has to go.

[312to937]

Originally Posted by Browns This loss isn't a concern to me because AG is has proven history in close games (St. Bonaventure last week) and we're "ahead of schedule." Also, they're tired.

Gold. Absolute gold.

[The Fly]

[QUOTE=longtimefan;571407]Ohio State has lost five games in a row. They are going backward. Holtmann is terrible and has to go.[/QUOTE

Indiana has lost five games in a row. They are going backward. Archie Miller is terrible and has to go.

[312to937]

[QUOTE=The Fly;571413]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Ohio State has lost five games in a row. They are going backward. Holtmann is terrible and has to go.[/QUOTE Indiana has lost five games in a row. They are going backward. Archie Miller is terrible and has to go.

Maybe. If they finish in the bottom half of the Big Ten this year there will be a ton of pressure on him.

[T-Bone 84]

[QUOTE=The Fly;571413]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Ohio State has lost five games in a row. They are going backward. Holtmann is terrible and has to go.[/QUOTE Indiana has lost five games in a row. They are going backward. Archie Miller is terrible and has to go.

They’re both just “gaining steam”.
Posted via Mobile Device

[JimBo]

Originally Posted by longtimefan Ohio State has lost five games in a row. They are going backward. Holtmann is terrible and has to go.

Indiana has lost five in a row also........ Archie should be canned. His entire time at UD was just a fluke. I mean, he's mid-way through his second season, his team should be at the top of the Big10 and in the top 10 nationally. That's what they hired him for. He clearly can't coach

[jack72]

Thank goodness we do not have Archie anymore! lol

[OSU Flyer]

To be realistic on the Archie/Holtman comparisons, those guys haven't lost a dozen games 8 years running and made 1 tournament appearance in 8 seasons. When you have tangible results as a coach you get the benefit of doubt

[shwag33]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer To be realistic on the Archie/Holtman comparisons, those guys haven't lost a dozen games 8 years running and made 1 tournament appearance in 8 seasons. When you have tangible results as a coach you get the benefit of doubt

Not by their fans. I'd argue Archie would be in a similar position we are in this year, people would be saying he had one good run but can't recruit well enough... he had one class etc.

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by jack72 Thank goodness we do not have Archie anymore! lol

Here is a Dan Dakich rant on the condition of I.U. basketball and Archie. He really takes some cheap shots at Tom Ostrum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZs_NM3Cm8Y

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by TommyGola Here is a Dan Dakich rant on the condition of I.U. basketball and Archie. He really takes some cheap shots at Tom Ostrum. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZs_NM3Cm8Y

Don't hold back, Dan. Tell us what you really think.

WOW!

[UD62]

Maybe Archie walked away from a dream job. Be carefull what you wish for.

[Avid Flyer]

There is a huge difference in coaching 3 star players who want to be 4 and 5 stars players vs coaching 4 an 5 star players who think they are BNA ready.

AG has an advantage in having been on an NBA staff the players realize he knows what it takes to get there. While Archie was emensly successful at UD he is still perceived as an Mid Major coach. The respect isn't fully there yet.

And if Dayton is a top 15 to 25 team next year and Indiana is not there will be unrest at IU.

[The Fly]

Dakich is a tool who can talk the talk but can’t walk the walk. He’s in love with himself both as a person and a broadcaster. As a coach, he was an abject failure. He coached 303 games in his career and was just 15 games over .500. He never took a team to the NCAA tournament except for one Indiana team he inherited as an interim coach. The guy was 3-4 in seven games there — enough for the Hoosiers to say see ya later. If he wants to be a blowhard, more power to him. But that doesn’t make him right. And I say this having no love for that school or most of Archie’s staff. But Archie already is twice the coach Dakich was. Danny boy can spew saliva all he wants while dressing down a coaching staff, but nothing changes the fact he’s all talk with no accomplishments to back it up.

[OSU Flyer]

You can't ride players like Bobby Knight did in the 80s anymore and expect to get guys like Romeo Langford

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer You can't ride players like Bobby Knight did in the 80s anymore and expect to get guys like Romeo Langford

Yeah, I heard that part of Dakich’s diatribe and was waiting to hear him add, “...and get off my lawn!”
Posted via Mobile Device

[Sea Bass]

Indiana's AD said he expects final 4 and national championships. Good luck.

[Avid Flyer]

Wow with 8 min into the game it's Mich 17 IU 0.

Let's see if Archie can turn it around like he did with 1 -5 start at league play and advancing to elite 8.

[Sea Bass]

Indiana losing 20-2 after 10 minutes with Michigan

[Avid Flyer]

Halftime Mich 33 IU 18

[Avid Flyer]

Final Mich 69 IU 46

[FlyerGuyer]

Right around the time Archie was rumored for the IU job, I posted a YouTube video on here of an Indiana fan yelling directly at Tom Crean that Crean had “ruined the program” (interestingly, the video was taken down a day or two later - someone didn’t like it). Welcome to Indiana, Archie. You’re not in Dayton anymore...

[312to937]

Wow. Archie just called his team out as “soft” in the postgame press conference. Either that turns team around or you lose ‘em and then he’s probably gone at end of year.
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[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Final Mich 69 IU 46

And that was at Bloomington. Wow.

You know, I really wish Archie success with the Hoosiers, but that fan base is a lot less forgiving than the Flyer Faithful. Yeah, we p!$$ and moan, but at the end of the day, we generally keep it all in perspective. IU fans? Their perspective begins and ends with One Shining Moment. Godspeed, Ryan “Archie” Miller.
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	Flyer Faithful FLYER FAITHFUL Best college basketball fans in the country. Knowledgeable, enthusiastic, and loyal. Help to create one of the toughest home courts in the nation at UD Arena. Over 12,000 fans a game put the Flyers in the Top-30 nationally in attendance. Fan spirit and support growing to other UD sports and athletic programs as well.

[Avid Flyer]

Interesting that only two teams in the NBE have winning conference records.

[Avid Flyer]

An IU fan I know wasn't really thrilled with the Archie higher. He felt big time programs need hire seasoned big time coaches.

He remarked remembering telling a potential recruit who was also considering Dayton that UD wasn't a top 25 program. Today he addef, maybe Archie isn't a top 25 ciach, or even a big 10 coach. So yeah the leash is getting shorter and tighter.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Interesting that only two teams in the NBE have winning conference records.

If Creighton holds on to beat Butler tonight, they’ll vault from a 3-way tie for 8th into a 5-way tie for 3rd (at 3-4), and Butler will drop from a 5-way tie for 3rd into 8th place, all by themselves. Crazy!
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[forego1]

That makes Dayton's marquee win a team 8th in their conference, but "we're ahead of schedule."

ADD > best to clarify around here; this is sarcasm

Our next best win is a double-overtime against Bonnies at 172 in NET rankings?
Is that right?

	St Bonaventure SAINT BONAVENTURE Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf.

[forego1]

Without any sarcasm: I don't think Dayton can lose more than four games the rest of the regular season. There just isn't anything there to beat. AND, I suspect that UD will be good to go in the A-10 next year.

What that translates to outside of conference I am not sure.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Interesting that only two teams in the NBE have winning conference records.

And they will all probably get a BID.

[longtimefan67]

I love reading the comments on this thread. I don’t know what AG does with the Flyers the rest of this year. I still believe its post season and likely NiT but anything is possible. I do know that this is still a young team and next year will be better. I’d much rather be a UD fan right now vs an Indiana fan. If IU stumbles to the point of not making the dance after being ranked this year, AM is in trouble.
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[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Interesting that only two teams in the NBE have winning conference records.

But none of them have a sub .500 overall record.

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer And they will all probably get a BID.

In today's ESPN (AKA All Duke, All The Time) Bracketology, Marquette and Villanova are solidly in while St Johns is a 10 opposite #7 Oklahoma and Seton Hall is an 11 opposite #6 Auburn. Butler & Creighton are on the wrong side of the bubble (for now).

_____________________
Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

[San Diego Flyer]

PUKE.

Originally Posted by Glen Clark But none of them have a sub .500 overall record. In today's ESPN (AKA All Duke, All The Time) Bracketology, Marquette and Villanova are solidly in while St Johns is a 10 opposite #7 Oklahoma and Seton Hall is an 11 opposite #6 Auburn. Butler & Creighton are on the wrong side of the bubble (for now). _____________________ Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

[CE80]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 I love reading the comments on this thread. I don’t know what AG does with the Flyers the rest of this year. I still believe its post season and likely NiT but anything is possible. I do know that this is still a young team and next year will be better. I’d much rather be a UD fan right now vs an Indiana fan. If IU stumbles to the point of not making the dance after being ranked this year, AM is in trouble. Posted via Mobile Device

I don't think Archie is in trouble. IU has their crazy fans - like we all do - that expected NCAA this year. I think the more realistic fans recognize he needs another year and probably more like 2 before they should see the results they expect. After that all bets are off. John Beilein is the poster child. I don't think a P5 program can bring in the volume of transfers that UD has and other similar programs have done in order to speed up the process.

[San Diego Flyer]

This season could really go south. IU is perilously close to being 8-12. As stated above, their fans are no where near as tolerant as UD's.

I hope he gets it done, but they have a tough road ahead.

[jack72]

Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer This season could really go south. IU is perilously close to being 8-12. As stated above, their fans are no where near as tolerant as UD's. I hope he gets it done, but they have a tough road ahead.

Periously close only counts in horseshoes and Curling and hand grenades. After today both OSU and IU will have about the same record. Neither coach is going to get fired this year for their coaching, unless their teams lose almost all of the rest of their games.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by CE80 I don't think Archie is in trouble. IU has their crazy fans - like we all do - that expected NCAA this year. I think the more realistic fans recognize he needs another year and probably more like 2 before they should see the results they expect. After that all bets are off. John Beilein is the poster child. I don't think a P5 program can bring in the volume of transfers that UD has and other similar programs have done in order to speed up the process.

Interesting that IU’s “more realistic fans” realize it’ll be another year or 2 before they should see results- but many of our fan base want AG gone right now.
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[CT Flyer]

Imagine if we were Wichita St.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Interesting that IU’s “more realistic fans” realize it’ll be another year or 2 before they should see results- but many of our fan base want AG fone right now. Posted via Mobile Device

I don't know how much you are saying that in jest but I really don't think there are that many Flyer fans that want AG gone this year. I would say it is probably similar %'s for both fan bases. Maybe a few more IU fans %wise want Archie gone than Flyer fans want AG gone. The only difference I see is that the IU fans that never liked the Archie hire, wanted Brad Stevens or Billy Donovan or Gregg Marshall. Unrealistic but at least they have names. The Flyer fans that never wanted AG don't even offer names - realistic or unrealistic.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by CT Flyer Imagine if we were Wichita St.

I imagine that is what it would be like if we joined the BE and started out 1-6 in conference.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by CE80 I don't know how much you are saying that in jest but I really don't think there are that many Flyer fans that want AG gone this year. I would say it is probably similar %'s for both fan bases. Maybe a few more IU fans %wise want Archie gone than Flyer fans want AG gone. The only difference I see is that the IU fans that never liked the Archie hire, wanted Brad Stevens or Billy Donovan or Gregg Marshall. Unrealistic but at least they have names. The Flyer fans that never wanted AG don't even offer names - realistic or unrealistic.

Agree the number is not that large. Problem is they never shut up.

[SLUFLYER]

I pay little to no attention to Dakich. He's a never was who found a job with a microphone. I listened to the link and it's 15 minutes I'll never get back. Not sure what his credentials are for the coaching critique but I find him to be very a much a douche.

[forego1]

I will guess that Archie Miller teams will get to the NCAAT multiple times and win multiple games over this next decade. Dayton? ...............

[IndianaFlyer]

Originally Posted by forego1 I will guess that Archie Miller teams will get to the NCAAT multiple times and win multiple games over this next decade. Dayton? ...............

Pretty safe guess they get there with how little it takes for a P5 team. We'll see about the number of wins.
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[shwag33]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Interesting that IU’s “more realistic fans” realize it’ll be another year or 2 before they should see results- but many of our fan base want AG fone right now. Posted via Mobile Device

If you go to their board that is not the case. It may be a vocal minority but its much much worse than here.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by IndianaFlyer Pretty safe guess they get there with how little it takes for a P5 team. We'll see about the number of wins. Posted via Mobile Device

Yeah, IU can pretty much be a game or 2 below .500 in-con, but if they kill it in November and December, and make it to the quarterfinals of the B1G tourney in March, they’ll get a bid. UD doesn’t have that luxury.
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[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by CE80 ...The Flyer fans that never wanted AG don't even offer names - realistic or unrealistic.

Ray Harper...
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[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by CE80 I don't think Archie is in trouble. IU has their crazy fans - like we all do - that expected NCAA this year. I think the more realistic fans recognize he needs another year and probably more like 2 before they should see the results they expect. After that all bets are off. John Beilein is the poster child. I don't think a P5 program can bring in the volume of transfers that UD has and other similar programs have done in order to speed up the process.

Iowa State under Hoiberg hit the transfer market pretty hard

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by CE80 The Flyer fans that never wanted AG don't even offer names - realistic or unrealistic.

I wanted Joe Pasternack

[rollo]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Iowa State under Hoiberg hit the transfer market pretty hard

Iowa State football and basketball has thrived with JC transfers for decades. Just as UD has thrived from D1 transfers lately. Recruiting transfers is not a bad plan for anyone.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by rollo Iowa State football and basketball has thrived with JC transfers for decades. Just as UD has thrived from D1 transfers lately. Recruiting transfers is not a bad plan for anyone.

See Nevada.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Iowa State under Hoiberg hit the transfer market pretty hard

Definitely. Can you think of anyone else? I know a number of mid majors have - Nevada for sure but I have a hard time coming up with anyone else. I would not be surprised if someone comes up with a couple more. It is just that P5 don't seem, to rebuild with a new coach through the transfer market.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by rollo Iowa State football and basketball has thrived with JC transfers for decades. Just as UD has thrived from D1 transfers lately. Recruiting transfers is not a bad plan for anyone.

Not suggesting it is bad at all.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by CE80 Definitely. Can you think of anyone else? I know a number of mid majors have - Nevada for sure but I have a hard time coming up with anyone else. I would not be surprised if someone comes up with a couple more. It is just that P5 don't seem, to rebuild with a new coach through the transfer market.

Nebraska seems like they always have a couple. Kansas actually has 4/5 on their roster right now
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[FlyerGuyer]

Originally Posted by CE80 I don't think Archie is in trouble. IU has their crazy fans - like we all do - that expected NCAA this year.

They expect more than just to make the Dance. They expect Final Fours basically every year. Crean inherited a program in disarray and had them dancing in 4 of his last 6 seasons—including 3 Sweet Sixteens, two Big Ten regular season titles, and a stint where IU was ranked # 1 in the country—and they ran him out of town like he was worse than Jim O’Brien. Crean won more NCAA Tournament games at IU than Archie did during the same time period at UD (I know this is an apples to oranges comparison, but it does highlight the expectations of IU fans).