cbs' top 68 programs of all time

[Medford]

CBS/Matt Norlander is starting a 3 day series where he has ranked the top 68 programs since the inception of the NCAA tournament (1938 IIRC).


https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...ime-nos-68-51/


My first thought was, UD makes it, right? Then I started reading the bios of the first handful of teams and thought, well maybe not. I do know they don't make the top 51, do they make the top 50?


Things I didn't really realize, for comparison sake, UD has 22 top 60 NBA draft picks (if I counted correctly) which is more than I realized and about to climb. Being an independent for so long hurt the regular season championships (is that regular season or postseason tournament?, they don't say). 18 NCAA tournament appearances which compares favorably to #51 Washington, 114 weeks ranked, which is double #60 Utep but behind most of the schools listed in today's release. Obviously the Flyers have the final 4/championship game, plus the 3 NIT titles.


I expect them to be somewhere in tomorrow's list (50-26), though no clue where. Wonder how many of our fellow A-10 brethren will be with us, where former rivals may appear, etc...

[TA111]

We need to remember that the Flyers have the most wins of any program in the 50’s and 60’s.

[Columbia Blue]

Interesting ... quick scan of media guide:

-- Record since '38-39: 1,395 - 883 (0.612), better than most
-- NBA: 28 players taken in rounds 1-5
-- Not sure about weeks in AP, but we ranked #76 in this exercise in 2017. Last season helped:
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball...ams-based-poll
-- NCAA appearances: 18
-- Final Fours: 1
-- Atlantic 10 Regular Season Championships: 6 (1998, 2000, 2004, 2016, 2017, 2020)

https://www.coachesdatabase.com/dayt...rs-basketball/

I'd expect us to be in the high 30's or 40's, for whatever that's worth.

[Smitty10]

The only thing I can tell you is that numbers 1 through 4 should include UCLA, KY, Duke and UNC. If I see anything else, I'll be surprised.

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 The only thing I can tell you is that numbers 1 through 4 should include UCLA, KY, Duke and UNC. If I see anything else, I'll be surprised.

Next two after that needs to definitely include Indiana and Kansas.

[Medford]

Indiana is a courious case, not sure what they were before the General got there, but in the time since, a relatively "Johnny come lately" UConn has accomplished significantly more in the last couple of decades. Kansas would be up there. Cincy is likely top 15. Ohio State? Where do Gonzaga and Butlers recent history put them? Nova has some history and a ton of recent top end success.


What about the Dons? Ton of success early on, then again with Bill Russell, then again with Bill Cartwright.


The interesting method to this, is how to weight the success of the 40-60s NIT champions vs the NCAA champions of that same era compared to the NCAA champions of the 80s-today compared to the NIT champions of today. Where does one draw the line between the NIT being more important vs the NCAA tournament being more important? Its pretty clear the NCAA is a mile better than the NIT today, but I don't get the impresson that the NIT was a mile better than the NCAA back in "the day" Am I wrong with that line of thinking, well before my time.


Top 10 guess:


Kentucky
UCLA
Carolina
Duke
Kansas
UConn
Indiana
L'Ville
Nova
Mich. State

[CT Flyer]

Originally Posted by Medford Top 10 guess: Kentucky UCLA Carolina Duke Kansas UConn Indiana L'Ville Nova Mich. State

I like your list. Much like Indiana, before Jim Calhoun, UConn was not much to speak of either. They obviously made up for some wasted time in the past 30 years but their past history is not all that stellar. Heck at the beginning of the Big East they were an also ran for quite a while before ascending to the top.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Medford Indiana is a courious case, not sure what they were before the General got there, but in the time since, a relatively "Johnny come lately" UConn has accomplished significantly more in the last couple of decades. Kansas would be up there. Cincy is likely top 15. Ohio State? Where do Gonzaga and Butlers recent history put them? Nova has some history and a ton of recent top end success. What about the Dons? Ton of success early on, then again with Bill Russell, then again with Bill Cartwright. The interesting method to this, is how to weight the success of the 40-60s NIT champions vs the NCAA champions of that same era compared to the NCAA champions of the 80s-today compared to the NIT champions of today. Where does one draw the line between the NIT being more important vs the NCAA tournament being more important? Its pretty clear the NCAA is a mile better than the NIT today, but I don't get the impresson that the NIT was a mile better than the NCAA back in "the day" Am I wrong with that line of thinking, well before my time. Top 10 guess: Kentucky UCLA Carolina Duke Kansas UConn Indiana L'Ville Nova Mich. State

Nice list, and then to follow? I think Syracuse, Oklahoma, Michigan, Ohio State, Virginia, Cincinnati, Purdue and Florida off the top of my head(not in that order mind you).

I'm sure I'm missing a few more, but soon after you start looking at the sporadic successful teams and Dayton would probably fall toward the end of that list. Afterall, when it comes to decades, 50s and 60s stand out for us, with 2010s following(and not nearly as successful as the other two). That means the 70s, 2000s(our next two most successful decades), 80s and 90s just didn't have much to write home about other than 74, 84 and 90.

[bigred]

We are no. 49.

[UDEE79]

Originally Posted by bigred We are no. 49.

Our article ends with "Dayton's showing here is the highest for the conference."

Then St. Joes shows up at #45.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by UDEE79 Our article ends with "Dayton's showing here is the highest for the conference." Then St. Joes shows up at #45.

When I see Tennessee with zero final fours one spot ahead of Florida with 5 final fours, I quit taking this list seriously.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UDEE79 Our article ends with "Dayton's showing here is the highest for the conference." Then St. Joes shows up at #45.

SJU is ahead of us, I am very surprised. I guess SJU must have a lot of history that I am not aware of.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

[Bill McPeek]

St. Joe's has a pretty storied past. One name that comes to mind is coach Jack Ramsey, who, by the way, is (was as he's deceased) JOB's father-in-law! He had some real good teams at St. Joe's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ramsay

[Columbia Blue]

Also overlooked our 2010 NIT title over North Carolina. Maybe not our greatest modern accomplishment, but still noteworthy.

Not very well researched, but better included than not. Go Flyers!

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...ime-nos-50-26/

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Columbia Blue Also overlooked our 2010 NIT title over North Carolina. Maybe not our greatest modern accomplishment, but still noteworthy. Not very well researched, but better included than not. Go Flyers! https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...ime-nos-50-26/

Some time after the 60s, the NIT has become irrelevant to lists ranking teams and programs. Let's face it, winning the NIT is worse than being an at large NCAA team that loses in the round of 64. It's a consolation tournament. I have no problem not having it included in the resume. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice little tournament that allows you to see more games of your favorite team play against other decent teams not in your conference, and winning it is a nice accomplishment, but it's one of those double edged swords, it's not a tournament you would want to win more than once in any long period of time.

Making the NIT for any teams making this list is considered a failure as far as seasons are concerned. Not a total failure, but a failure just the same. Those one and dones in 1999, 2002 and 2003 mean more to me than the 2010 NIT championship. I'm pretty sure if you ask anyone at random who won the 2010 NIT championship, only fans of 2 teams would be able to give you an answer, Dayton and UNC.

[UDEE79]

UNC fans wouldn’t even know. If I am wearing my NIT championship tee they would however😂. Everyone thinks you are worse than 68 b’auto bids it’s not true. It actually that you are worse than 40 something teams. Furthermore if you aren’t in a power 5 conference the bar is a little bit higher. A final thing about our NIT title is that we played three games on the road which elevates your opponents strength significantly. I remember going through Sagarin ratings and finding that our wins were beating higher rated teams than Xaxier did in the big dance that year.
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[Medford]

While I agree the NIT championship isn't anything worth bragging about, but..... Dang that run was fun. How often do we get to see UD win games @ Illinois, @ UC and twice in the Garden (including one over North Carolina)? The run itself, the teams they beat, the places they won is what makes that championship so much fun. Had the wins all come over mid-level p5 teams or other teams situated similar to UD (ie St Mary's, SD State, etc..) it wouldn't have been near as fun.

[N2663R]

Originally Posted by ud2 SJU is ahead of us, I am very surprised. I guess SJU must have a lot of history that I am not aware of.

Jesuit connections again . . . .

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by N2663R Jesuit connections again . . . .

When comparing accomplishments SJ comes out ahead of Dayton slightly in most areas. When it comes to conference regular season and tournament championships(I realize that UD being independent for so long has a lot to do with this) and especially NBA players, they tower over UD.

Dayton has 3 things that hurt it when it comes to the criteria used for lists like this. One is that Blackburn refused the NCAA tournament. 2nd is that they stayed independent so long(less conference accomplishments) and 3rd is that they when they did have great success, they did it with great coaching and chemistry rather than NBA type superstars.