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  #1  
Old 03-29-2018, 03:58 PM
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Darius Bazley decommits from Cuse, becomes 1st player to choose G League over NCAA

Very, very interesting article from Yahoo’s Shams Charania about this:

https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports...mpression=true

(Can’t get the link to work on mobile, sorry)

This is *exactly* what the NBA has hoped the G League would become. A viable alternative to college basketball for guys who don’t plan to go to college 4 years and get their degree. I see both sides of this for sure - I love UD and I love college basketball but it does seem foolish that guys have to go to “school” for one year if they don’t want to and have no intention of getting their degree. Remember that the one and done rule is an NBA rule and not an NCAA rule.

This alternative seems like a win-win. A guy can make some money playing hoops in the G League (right now I think the salary is something like $30-40K vs $75-225K) for guys on two way contracts - Bazley and anyone else who does this won’t be eligible for a two-way contract like Cooke has). You can be a full time basketball player while getting ready for your next job. The NBA gets to scout you and coach you up, and you’ll be arguably better prepared for the draft. But, the NCAA is going to lose out on some premier players, and that might hurt the product some. In the long run, something had to change and it is interesting that it is happening now.

As an aside, Bazley is from Finneytown in Cincy, goes to Princeton (as did a certain former Flyer who transferred to UD from Ohio State) and had UD interest before he blew up. Too bad, so sad for Boeheim.
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Old 03-29-2018, 04:20 PM
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I'd take the money in Australia over the GLeague
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:01 PM
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THirt: Actually, I think this is a healthy development. I am old school, as I believe that college basketball should be a venue for student athletes, and not aspiring NBA players. Kentucky, Duke and others with their one-and-done approach have brought a degree of harm to the game, in my opinion, as you do not get a chance to have players build a loyalty to the institution or its fans. The outcome may be a slightly less quality of athlete on the collegiate floor, but an athlete that loves the game, the institution, and the fans.
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
THirt: Actually, I think this is a healthy development. I am old school, as I believe that college basketball should be a venue for student athletes, and not aspiring NBA players. Kentucky, Duke and others with their one-and-done approach have brought a degree of harm to the game, in my opinion, as you do not get a chance to have players build a loyalty to the institution or its fans. The outcome may be a slightly less quality of athlete on the collegiate floor, but an athlete that loves the game, the institution, and the fans.
Oh, yeah, I wasnít trying to insinuate that itís a bad thing... I think itís a necessary step. I think college can be for both aspiring NBA players and student athletes though - the argument is always that you go to college to be able to get a better job, so who cares if that job is playing basketball or being a chemical engineer? If you could get a high-paying job with Proctor & Gamble after your freshman year, heck, you should take it! I happen to think there is a lot of value to attending college beyond what you learn in class, but college isnít for everyone, and again, the main goal for attending college is to gain the skills you need to be successful in life and in your chosen profession. If you can get that elsewhere and get paid to do it, hey, good for you.

As far as loyalty to the school and the fans... sure I like that ideal, but that ship has kind of sailed. Coaches leave for more money, players leave for a better opportunity, guys play for three schools in five years and then go pro... the ideal of a guy committing to a school and playing there for the love of the game is kind of passť. Is there value in committing to one school, getting your degree there and making lifelong connections and friendships? Of course there is. But that isnít for everyone.
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:58 PM
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If you accept one penny of money from an NCAA institution, your not allowed to play in the NBA for 3 years. Put an end to the one and dones. Either go G-league, Europe, or NCAA. Make up your mind and commit. One and dones ruin the competitive balance for the UD's of the world.
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
If you accept one penny of money from an NCAA institution, your not allowed to play in the NBA for 3 years. Put an end to the one and dones. Either go G-league, Europe, or NCAA. Make up your mind and commit. One and dones ruin the competitive balance for the UD's of the world.
I think 1&Done helps Dayton. We aren't getting those type of players here and it forces the UKs of the world to have frequent upheaval on their roster.
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I think 1&Done helps Dayton. We aren't getting those type of players here and it forces the UKs of the world to have frequent upheaval on their roster.
I agree...you often end up with juniors and seniors of slightly less talent competing with the more talented freshmen. And as we have seen in recent NCAA's, the less talented but more experienced players are winning. In many respects, I think the Kentucky's and Duke's of the world are diluting their programs in so many ways. Ask a Kentucky fan who their stars were three years ago. There has been so much turnover and upheaval that they cannot tell you.
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:55 PM
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There's been one guy that I know of before this that went straight to the D now G League, Latavious Williams. Jeremy Tyler, Mundiay, Brandon Jennings and some others have gone overseas.

There's options available for kids that don't want to go to college. Australia's pro league is now targeting US players with higher pay than the G league

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...ones-nba-draft
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Old 03-29-2018, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I think 1&Done helps Dayton. We aren't getting those type of players here and it forces the UKs of the world to have frequent upheaval on their roster.
Itíll actually hurt Dayton. If most of the 5 stars go to the G league then UK/Duke will be after the 4 stars.
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Old 03-29-2018, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by hoch21 View Post
Itíll actually hurt Dayton. If most of the 5 stars go to the G league then UK/Duke will be after the 4 stars.
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yep, get rid 1 & done and the blue bloods starting moving down on the recruiting list
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Old 03-29-2018, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
yep, get rid 1 & done and the blue bloods starting moving down on the recruiting list
the truly special players are the ones that make the blue bloods great. if the creme de la creme goes G league or overseas the gap in talent betweens the Blue Bloods and Us will decrease.
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Old 03-30-2018, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
THirt: Actually, I think this is a healthy development. I am old school, as I believe that college basketball should be a venue for student athletes, and not aspiring NBA players. Kentucky, Duke and others with their one-and-done approach have brought a degree of harm to the game, in my opinion, as you do not get a chance to have players build a loyalty to the institution or its fans. The outcome may be a slightly less quality of athlete on the collegiate floor, but an athlete that loves the game, the institution, and the fans.
Absolutely agree! College isn't for everyone, 44" vertical or not. This could eventually trend toward more schools looking like Loyola as opposed to Duke or UK. Oh, and we'll get to see who can really coach (Porter Moser) vs who rolls out the ball with their 4 and 5-star players (you know who I'm talking about don't you, Roy Williams?).
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Old 03-30-2018, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by hoch21 View Post
Itíll actually hurt Dayton. If most of the 5 stars go to the G league then UK/Duke will be after the 4 stars.
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Wake me up when UD starts getting even a 4 star outside of one maybe every 5-7 years..
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Old 03-30-2018, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
Wake me up when UD starts getting even a 4 star outside of one maybe every 5-7 years..
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Old 03-30-2018, 08:25 AM
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I think it's a big domino effect. Duke loses their McDonald's All American prospect to the draft. Duke then moves on and gets the guard that NC State was after. NC State goes and gets the guard Clemson was after. Clemson then goes and offers Jordan Davis

Duke going further down the recruiting list pushes the rest of the ACC down until they get into the pool players Dayton is after

Last edited by OSU Flyer; 03-30-2018 at 08:28 AM..
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Old 03-30-2018, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I think it's a big domino effect. Duke loses their McDonald's All American prospect to the draft. Duke then moves on and gets the guard that NC State was after. NC State goes and gets the guard Clemson was after. Clemson then goes and offers Jordan Davis

Duke going further down the recruiting list pushes the rest of the ACC down until they get into the pool players Dayton is after
Isn't the overall pool of players large enough and the pool of one and dones small enough that by the time things trickle down to UD, there really won't be that significant of a difference?
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Old 03-30-2018, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by THirt View Post
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"outside of one maybe every 5-7 years" also says hi.
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Old 03-30-2018, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
"outside of one maybe every 5-7 years" also says hi.
In a couple of hours, Anthony Grant will have been our coach for one year. So far, he has gotten 4 recruits, one of them a 4-star.
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Old 03-30-2018, 08:43 AM
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If the 1 and Done is changed it more likely have a ripple effect in recruiting as has been mentioned in previous posts. If it is not, some of the 1 and Dones will go to the G-League but some will like the exposure that a Duke or NC gets. It isn't like most of those kids are majoring in Pre-Med. And I think Coach Cal could convince a player that the academic rigors would be less than taxing. I think it that circumstance, you may lose more kids like Kostas... who just want no part of school at all and cannot get into one of those programs.

If the 1 and Done is changed, yeah... I think you lose a bunch of them.
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Old 03-30-2018, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Isn't the overall pool of players large enough and the pool of one and dones small enough that by the time things trickle down to UD, there really won't be that significant of a difference?
I think it depends. Ryan Mikesell probably no difference. Somebody like Jordan Davis who I believe had a Butler & K-State offer. If Clemson and South Carolina miss out their top guys because someone higher up the food chain poached them and one of them offer, do we get him out of South Carolina?

I think guys that are right on the cusp of getting power 5 offers or getting better P5 offers it could make a difference.
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Old 03-30-2018, 09:02 AM
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If we look back to the pre 1 & done era coaches like Rick Stansbury and Cal at Memphis got burned on guys who said they were going to college and backed out at the last minute for the draft.

It's a big risk for Kentucky to recruit someone and then find out in April that guy isn't coming. Many schools would back off a lot of guys beyond the obvious 1 & dones because you don't know who's gonna make a bad decision if you're top 20-30 guy.

It's gonna impact your whole recruiting strategy and have a bigger effect in the pool beyond the guys in the top 10 of a class. You don't know who's gonna make a bad decision or who's gonna jerk a Duke around
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Old 03-30-2018, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I think it's a big domino effect. Duke loses their McDonald's All American prospect to the draft. Duke then moves on and gets the guard that NC State was after. NC State goes and gets the guard Clemson was after. Clemson then goes and offers Jordan Davis

Duke going further down the recruiting list pushes the rest of the ACC down until they get into the pool players Dayton is after
Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Isn't the overall pool of players large enough and the pool of one and dones small enough that by the time things trickle down to UD, there really won't be that significant of a difference?
Originally Posted by UDEE79 View Post
the truly special players are the ones that make the blue bloods great. if the creme de la creme goes G league or overseas the gap in talent betweens the Blue Bloods and Us will decrease.
I believe the last point is closest to reality. The guys that go to Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc. are the 1 in 1,000 or maybe 10,000 guys. The gap between that tier of schools and the next tier will close. The talent pool entering college is a pyramid, not a square. The talent we are able to recruit is based on a number of factors that determine where we are in that pyramid. (plenty of other posts on those topics)

Overall the impact is lowering the water level of talent. We're still a small fish in the water compared to those schools. That's just where we are until we put together an extended run of uninterrupted success.
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Old 03-30-2018, 09:11 AM
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I agree that the one and done rule helps us. Look at all the players who came to UD over the years as raw basketball recruits and left after four years as much better players and better persons with a college degree. Their raw basketball skills get refined and coaches molded them and the other players into a team that brought UD back to prominence and name recognition.

So you go directly from high school to the G League and maybe some day, it is an outside chance that you make an NBA team. Corey Sanders, a third year Rutgers guard, just decided to forego senior year and enter the draft hiring an agent. He had declared twice before but without an agent. Apparently you can only do this twice and then either you hire an agent or stay for the 4th year.

Josh Gray, an ESPN NBA Draft expert, said "G-League, I would think." "Maybe Europe, depending on this priorities." That is not an confidence building comment when I would think that many of those under classment declaring for the draft are in the same boat. Oh, and Corey Sanders has a two year old daughter and probably needs money so his hands are tied.
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Old 03-30-2018, 09:30 AM
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The last two Final Fours there's been 1 one & done and the guy played for Gonzaga. UK has 1 title in the 1 & done era. Duke has 1 since they went to going after those guys.

The guys like Anthony Davis or Carmelo Anthony that puts a team on his back as a freshman are few and far between.

Kansas State beat Kentucky this year with a bunch of three star guys. That task gets harder if Kentucky starts having experience on their roster like Villanova
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Old 03-30-2018, 10:11 AM
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If anyone thinks college will lose it's luster because the 1 and dones are gone, don't. It will be perfect for the college game. Ideal even. Imagine a world where coaches make less than half of what they make now. Imagine a world where coaches routinely spend a majority of their careers at a single school. Think of the crusty old coach who loves the local school and is ingrained in the community.

Idealistic? Maybe a bit. More like college baseball or hockey. LESS money makes the game MORE interesting. Don't believe me? How many high flying 44" vertical leap athletes does Loyola have? Instead of kids in Florida growing up as Duke fans because they're on TV every night, they root for the local school. Regional rivalries reemerge instead of the "Atlantic" Coast Conference including schools separated by a thousand miles.

The playing field will never be level, but a more level playing field would be great for a more broad love of the game. The game would be better not worse.
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Old 03-30-2018, 11:58 AM
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If 1 and done are gone it could potentially hell and hurt a school like UD. Sure the blue bloods dip into lower tier recruiting causing a domino effect. But, they also have kids for 3-4 years on their roster meaning they arnt taking up as many of the yearly recruits as their scholarships are filled longer.
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Old 03-30-2018, 12:09 PM
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UConn's "incoming" recruits

All three of UConn's incoming class have "decommitted" after personal visits by UConn's new coach Dan Hurley. The parting was amicable it's reported...and all three said that upon re-opening their recruitment UConn still is in the mix.

In my opinion a recruit should be locked in for one year following a coaching change....then be allowed to transfer without penalty if he chooses.

Breaking a commitment just gives a HS kid another shot to see if he get something that appears better...after making a commitment to a specific program. But the new coach is expected to honor the commitment made by the school?
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Old 03-30-2018, 12:49 PM
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And Coaches should have to remain at their current school for one year after agreeing to contract terms with another school.

Unless their current contract has expired but since all coaches have long extensions on their contract I doubt that this would likely occur.

On second thought perhaps the coach needs to remain at his current school four years after agreeing to terms with another school. He probably assured his incoming recruits that he would be there for them I doubt that he told them that he was hoping to leave before they even arrived.

But one year would be enough as verbal contracts are only enforceable if they are one year or less. Since the coach's assurances were only verbal I could see holding them to the minimum of year.

The argument that the commitment is to the university and not the coach does not hold much water when the salesman and only official contacts with the University are through the coaching staff. The Coach and staff are not free lancers rather they are employees and representatives of the University. Their representations are in effect the representations of the University. Their promises are the promises of the University.

Last edited by oldfan; 03-30-2018 at 12:53 PM.. Reason: additional comment
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Old 03-30-2018, 01:56 PM
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This will be interesting to follow. I had heard of Marvin Bagley as a big time recruit, but had never seen him play as a HS player and to be honest, no one watches the G League. Marvin Bagley was a star of college basketball this year for Duke, getting who knows how many hours of prime time television coverage with millions of viewers. I've probably seen Bagley play at least a half dozen times this year and I don't even follow Duke.

A year from now, will Bazely be a legit star like Bagley, or will he be a "oh yeah, I remember hearing about him on the recruiting sites"? guy I tend to think the latter, and that could be why we don't see too many taking the G League route, unless they are either completely disinterested in learning, or are as dumb as a box of rocks. The NCAA is providing these kids a huge platform towards stardom. Many might believe they are the next Lebron to walk into the league and be a star, but the players who actually do that come along maybe once or twice a decade.
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Old 03-30-2018, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDuke2003 View Post
This will be interesting to follow. I had heard of Marvin Bagley as a big time recruit, but had never seen him play as a HS player and to be honest, no one watches the G League. Marvin Bagley was a star of college basketball this year for Duke, getting who knows how many hours of prime time television coverage with millions of viewers. I've probably seen Bagley play at least a half dozen times this year and I don't even follow Duke.

A year from now, will Bazely be a legit star like Bagley, or will he be a "oh yeah, I remember hearing about him on the recruiting sites"? guy I tend to think the latter, and that could be why we don't see too many taking the G League route, unless they are either completely disinterested in learning, or are as dumb as a box of rocks. The NCAA is providing these kids a huge platform towards stardom. Many might believe they are the next Lebron to walk into the league and be a star, but the players who actually do that come along maybe once or twice a decade.
This is a good point. If you're trying to build profile to get the bigger shoe deals and endorsement contracts that NCAA gives you the biggest vehicle to promote yourself
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Old 03-31-2018, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by hoch21 View Post
Itíll actually hurt Dayton. If most of the 5 stars go to the G league then UK/Duke will be after the 4 stars.
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That still leaves the 3 and 2 stars for us. Like the same ones who come here.
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Old 03-31-2018, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
If anyone thinks college will lose it's luster because the 1 and dones are gone, don't. It will be perfect for the college game. Ideal even. Imagine a world where coaches make less than half of what they make now. Imagine a world where coaches routinely spend a majority of their careers at a single school. Think of the crusty old coach who loves the local school and is ingrained in the community.

Idealistic? Maybe a bit. More like college baseball or hockey. LESS money makes the game MORE interesting. Don't believe me? How many high flying 44" vertical leap athletes does Loyola have? Instead of kids in Florida growing up as Duke fans because they're on TV every night, they root for the local school. Regional rivalries reemerge instead of the "Atlantic" Coast Conference including schools separated by a thousand miles.

The playing field will never be level, but a more level playing field would be great for a more broad love of the game. The game would be better not worse.
Couldn't agree more. But yes, you can level the playing field. As I posted in a different thread:

1. At the end of each season, have the NCAA divide up all of the net profits (TV revenue) equally among all Div I teams.

2. Eliminate recruiting entirely. Hold 5-7? geographic "high school combines" around the country each year. After the last combine, hold a national draft day that includes every Div I school in the country. Draft order is based on your previous years' ending RPI. Draft who you want/need based on the number of scholarships you have available. The day after the draft, have one day that you can trade previous days' picks. After that, your roster is set and you are good to go. No walk-ons allowed. Player transfer rules stay the same as they are today. We'd quickly find out who the best coaches in the country are, as well.
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Old 03-31-2018, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Couldn't agree more. But yes, you can level the playing field. As I posted in a different thread:

1. At the end of each season, have the NCAA divide up all of the net profits (TV revenue) equally among all Div I teams.

2. Eliminate recruiting entirely. Hold 5-7? geographic "high school combines" around the country each year. After the last combine, hold a national draft day that includes every Div I school in the country. Draft order is based on your previous years' ending RPI. Draft who you want/need based on the number of scholarships you have available. The day after the draft, have one day that you can trade previous days' picks. After that, your roster is set and you are good to go. No walk-ons allowed. Player transfer rules stay the same as they are today. We'd quickly find out who the best coaches in the country are, as well.
And how would you have liked it if you had to go to a college you didn't want to go to because some academic dean chose you???
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Old 03-31-2018, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
And how would you have liked it if you had to go to a college you didn't want to go to because some academic dean chose you???
I didn't say it was perfect, but it would be interesting to know how many D1 players actually factor in their specific major as a part of their selection criteria. Outside of the Ivy League and the Service Academy's, probably less than 3%?, 1%?

You could add in a time zone factor - limit your schools to the same, or 1 time zone difference, or no restrictions at all. It might be more doable than you think.

Fun to think about.
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Old 03-31-2018, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Couldn't agree more. But yes, you can level the playing field. As I posted in a different thread:

1. At the end of each season, have the NCAA divide up all of the net profits (TV revenue) equally among all Div I teams.

2. Eliminate recruiting entirely. Hold 5-7? geographic "high school combines" around the country each year. After the last combine, hold a national draft day that includes every Div I school in the country. Draft order is based on your previous years' ending RPI. Draft who you want/need based on the number of scholarships you have available. The day after the draft, have one day that you can trade previous days' picks. After that, your roster is set and you are good to go. No walk-ons allowed. Player transfer rules stay the same as they are today. We'd quickly find out who the best coaches in the country are, as well.
What are you smokin man? I'm guessing you were born in the era where you grew up with Madden video games as a pre-teen/teenager. These are not chess pieces to be traded and bartered. Human Beings...all of them. Like CT Flyer said...would you like it you were told you had to attend North Dakota St. because the school "selected" you?
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Old 03-31-2018, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
...would you like it you were told you had to attend North Dakota St. because the school "selected" you?
Guess you never applied to medical school . . .
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Old 03-31-2018, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
...would you like it you were told you had to attend North Dakota St. because the school "selected" you?
The Cleveland Browns have to break the bad news to these types of athletes all the time.
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Old 03-31-2018, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Guess you never applied to medical school . . .
I'm familiar with the pairing process for residency programs but it isn't close to what you outlined above...
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  #39  
Old 03-31-2018, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Guess you never applied to medical school . . .
There's a difference between "selected" and "accepted."

If the NCAA were to go to a draft system as you outlined, might as well just drop the student-athlete charade and just pay players outright, rather than surreptitiously like now.
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Old 04-01-2018, 06:25 AM
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Good find THirt.

I think this is good for the NCAA and teams like UD. Yes, this type of thing may cause the big boys, that used to get the newly appointed G League players, to dip into the players that schools "lower" than them were after. But, as mentioned above, these players will be at schools for longer than a year. In the long run this will cause players to stay at schools for multiple years and keep the idea of "college athletics" versus "amateur basketball" with the purpose to prepare athletes for pro ball. There are still the same amount of roster spots to go around.

I don't think this has much, if any, impact on UD. Overseas ball will always be there...even after playing in college for 4 years. Regardless of potential that a kid has, over time, reality will set in that they aren't going to be making a living in the US playing professionally. I still think the luster of playing for a competitive college program will still trump a long shot in the G League or any other professional league.
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Old 04-01-2018, 02:46 PM
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70% of the players who are expected to start in Monday night's title game are in at least their third season of college basketball. Experience matters. Experience wins in March.
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Old 04-01-2018, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
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70% of the players who are expected to start in Monday night's title game are in at least their third season of college basketball. Experience matters. Experience wins in March.
This is quite telling information! Does this explain the premature departure of the "one and done" teams? I think it does.
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Old 04-02-2018, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
This is quite telling information! Does this explain the premature departure of the "one and done" teams? I think it does.
Biggest issue is with physical and mental maturity that wins the games over short periods of time.

Anyone can toss a bunch of talent on the floor and win meaningless games once or twice a week for 2 months then compete against half a dozen solid teams once or twice a week in conference. ie: P5 schools

Veteran teams have a much better chance of being successful when the games are high stress and coming at you quickly with a bunch of travel and external distractions.

Flying to a new site three weekends in a row for two games in 3 days wears on you. The veteran players can deal with it better over the course of time.
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Old 04-02-2018, 05:47 AM
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Coupled with the one-and-dones skipping college all together, the proposed change to allow transfers without a corresponding year off could greatly alter the college landscape. Now smaller schools become de-facto farm teams for larger programs.
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