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02-12-2015, 09:28 AM
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UD has a rooting interest in the 7pm games on ESPN and ESPN2 tonight:
From CBS Sports "Palm Reading"...
How the Flyers Can Boost Their RPI Today
Connecticut needs to beat Tulsa
Game Info: 7:00 PM | TV: ESP2
Ole Miss needs to beat Florida
Game Info: 7:00 PM | TV: ESPN
Illinois-Chicago needs to beat Wright State
Game Info: 7:00 PM | TV: ESP3
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02-12-2015, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan
Hmmm...if I were a coach it would have to be an EXTREME circumstance for me to consider taking a player that quits mid semester.
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I've actually seen Sina play several times, trust me, I'm telling you this kid is a good kid...whatever is going on at SH, Sina is not the problem...this kid busts his arse on the court, great attitude.
Apparently, he's a good student too...IMO, all signs point to there being other big problems at SH...this kid doesn't strike me as someone who quits unless things are really bad.
Last edited by ud2; 02-12-2015 at 09:33 AM..
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02-12-2015, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan
Hmmm...if I were a coach it would have to be an EXTREME circumstance for me to consider taking a player that quits mid semester.
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I get the impression that things are EXTREMELY bad there.
Originally Posted by Medford
Darnel Hoskins worked out pretty nicely. With out knowing the circumstances, I can't really comment on the kid. Its certainly a warning flag, but perhaps there are good reasons.
At any rate, if you believe Crosby to be a capable backup for 2 seasons and starter for his last 2 after Scoochie, throw in Davis & Davis and there's not a huge need for another PG on the roster.
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Not a huge need but it would be a good use of a scholly in my opinion. Wouldn't advocate bringing another freshman PG in, but this is a different story. Balancing the classes a bit would be nice.
Originally Posted by ud2
I've actually seen Sina play several times, trust me, I'm telling you this kid is a good kid...whatever is going on at SH, Sina is not the problem...this kid busts his arse on the court, great attitude.
Apparently, he's a good student too...IMO, all signs point to there being other big problems at SH...this kid doesn't strike me as someone who quits unless things are really bad.
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Sums it up for me. My sentiments exactly. But we can pick this up in the offseason... Sorry for veering off topic slightly.
Some interesting games tonight indeed.
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02-12-2015, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I've actually seen Sina play several times, trust me, I'm telling you this kid is a good kid...whatever is going on at SH, Sina is not the problem...this kid busts his arse on the court, great attitude.
Apparently, he's a good student too...IMO, all signs point to there being other big problems at SH...this kid doesn't strike me as someone who quits unless things are really bad.
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I attended the Seton Hall - Marquette game this past Saturday in Newark with my brother, a Hall grad and season ticket holder. I mentioned a few times that I didn't like the body language of guard Isiah Whitehead. The Hall ran no offense......no passing at all. The Hall had a highly regarded recruiting class last year, including Whitehead. Whitehead missed some games earlier in the season due to injury. It looks to me that the problem is there is only one ball. Star guard Sterling Gibbs and Whitehead seem to be the major problem. I believe the locker room situation is so bad it is greatly affecting play on the court and Sina had enough.
All reports are Sina is a good kid.
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02-12-2015, 10:13 AM
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I bet Sina ends up at URI.
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02-12-2015, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80
I bet Sina ends up at URI.
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Yeah, that's a good call.
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02-12-2015, 10:30 AM
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I say he transfers to Siena.
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02-12-2015, 10:39 AM
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[QUOTE=DallasFlyer;390750] http://www.app.com/story/sports/coll...sina/23231845/
Seton Hall situation is interesting. Have to wonder how bad the situation is for this kid to call it quits at this point in the season.
But it wouldn't surprise me if come this offseason Jaren Sina takes a look at Dayton. Facilitating PG from New Jersey who has played with and against Charles Cooke a lot over the years. Not a bad roster fit as a guy who would sit a year and then have 2 years eligibility, ensuring upperclass floor general type leadership as Crosby is brought along after Scoochie graduates two years from now. By all account a good kid who does really well in the classroom and acts as a coach on the floor with high basketball IQ. Good shooter too I believe. /QUOTE]
If he is a stud, fine. Otherwise after this year's mess, stay away from potential problems. Besides we need a player over 6'9" with that last scholly.
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02-12-2015, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
]If he is a stud, fine. Otherwise after this year's mess, stay away from potential problems. Besides we need a player over 6'9" with that last scholly.
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For sure stay away from potential problems, but this kid supposedly is a great kid and a very good player, who doesn't want to be around problems. So if we have a roster full of kids who aren't problems, then there's no problem.
But the main thing I wanted to respond to is the notion that we have to add another 6'9" + kid. We have three freshman (including Steve in year one of eligibility) who are 6'9" or over so I honestly don't feel the need to add another big body to that class.
If there is a big who is a JUCO or grad transfer with immediate eligibility to balance the classes, then heck yeah. That's an ideal target.
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02-12-2015, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
But the main thing I wanted to respond to is the notion that we have to add another 6'9" + kid. We have three freshman (including Steve in year one of eligibility) who are 6'9" or over so I honestly don't feel the need to add another big body to that class.
If there is a big who is a JUCO or grad transfer with immediate eligibility to balance the classes, then heck yeah. That's an ideal target.
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We have Steve, and a 6'8, and two 6'7" kids. I would love a transfer or JUCO, who is not a big risk. If not that, then another project HS kid over 6'9", that is 6'10 or 6'11" or more. No guarantee Steve will be playing and productive. We cannot put all of our eggs in the Steve basket.
Some of us want to move to the next level. I sure do. We need some more size.
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02-12-2015, 05:29 PM
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Your position is further enhanced by the thought of two great 6'6" lane players who can rebound defend and score, and are returning next season. P&P just aren't going to camp on the perimeter next season. Small ball is here to stay as an option.
Rather, we could use another pure point to push Scoochie.
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02-12-2015, 07:59 PM
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I thought Sam Miller and Xeyrius Williams were both in the 6'8 to 6'9 range. While Mikesell was more like 6'6 to 6'7.
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02-12-2015, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
I thought Sam Miller and Xeyrius Williams were both in the 6'8 to 6'9 range. While Mikesell was more like 6'6 to 6'7.
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you are correct
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02-12-2015, 08:45 PM
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UConn killing Tulsa. That should be a decent win for them.
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02-12-2015, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd
UConn killing Tulsa. That should be a decent win for them.
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And Ole Miss wins too. Nice.
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02-12-2015, 09:00 PM
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Ole Miss wins @ Florida.
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02-12-2015, 09:00 PM
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Great night for the Flyers. Ole Miss wins at Florida and UConn thrashes Tulsa.
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02-12-2015, 09:01 PM
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And, Ole Miss defeats Florida at Florida to win both games v. Florida. Decent win as well.
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02-12-2015, 09:11 PM
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And UIC defeats Wright State.
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02-12-2015, 09:25 PM
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Watching FIU playing at So Miss. I see Khari Price on the bench. Very different atmosphere there than at the Arena. I liked KP. I wish he was still part of the team.
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02-12-2015, 09:32 PM
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Jinny won at Iowa as well, good for ud
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02-12-2015, 09:33 PM
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Andrew Dawkins just had an ESPN top ten highlight dunk. Michigan winning at Illinois early
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02-12-2015, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
Watching FIU playing at So Miss. I see Khari Price on the bench. Very different atmosphere there than at the Arena. I liked KP. I wish he was still part of the team.
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You know it has to cross Khari's mind that he could be seeing a lot of minutes this year at both guard positions. I would love to have seeing him getting some minutes at the 2 to capitalize on his greatly improved outside shooting. Not to mention, he was an outstanding free throw shooter. I miss him and his play.
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02-12-2015, 10:08 PM
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Odd falls on the road to Texas San Antonio hurting their hopes of an at large bid greatly. Still the favorite to win their conference
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02-13-2015, 12:18 AM
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Thursday night
2/12/15
A-10 scores:
No A-10 games scheduled
OOC opponents:
Tulsa (8) 45 @ UConn 70
Ole Miss (10) 62 @ Florida 61
U Illinois-Chicago 79 @ Wright State 75
Others getting votes in the USA Today Coaches poll:
Loyola Marymount 51 @ #2 Gonzaga (749) 80
Stanford 59 @ #10 Utah (497) 75
#25 SMU (39) 75 @ Houston 69
Minnesota 64 @ Iowa (20) 59
SIU Edwardsville 46 @ Murray State (8) 78
Sleepers:
Cal State Fullerton 69 @ UC Davis (19-4, 9-1) 74
Sacramento State 61 @ Eastern Washington (19-5, 10-1) 64
Old Dominion (18-5, 7-4) 67 @ UT San Antonio 72 - Old Dominion's at-large hopes take a hit
Arkansas State 60 @ Georgia Southern (17-5, 10-3) 65
Chattanooga 56 @ Wofford (20-6, 11-2) 46 - the Terriers with a costly home loss
Florida Atlantic 54 @ Louisiana Tech (19-6, 10-2) 65
St Mary's (18-6, 10-3) 60 @ BYU 82 - a blow to St Mary's resume
North Florida 63 @ USC Upstate (19-7, 6-3) 80
Florida Gulf Coast (18-7, 8-1) 65 @ Northern Kentucky 59
North Dakota State (18-7, 10-2) 73 @ Denver 69 (OT)
_____________________
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02-13-2015, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford
Andrew Dawkins just had an ESPN top ten highlight dunk. Michigan winning at Illinois early
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Aubrey. He's doing well there it seems.
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02-13-2015, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola
You know it has to cross Khari's mind that he could be seeing a lot of minutes this year at both guard positions.
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Or with our luck this year he could have been out with a knee injury occupying the seat that the too often-concussed Ryan Bass now has.
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02-13-2015, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
Or with our luck this year he could have been out with a knee injury occupying the seat that the too often-concussed Ryan Bass now has.
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IIRC, you mean "had". I think that, once Bass's playing days were over, he left school.
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02-13-2015, 10:58 PM
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I appreciate everything Glen has done on this Thread (Big UPS, Glen!!!) and I don't want to hijack the Thread, but, FWIW (and I hate to speculate too much), I'm not sure Khari could have played this year, given the injuries to his knees. IMHO, he may have thought that he would have to sit out a year anyway and, given that, doubted he would be able to resume a leadership position on the team. I wish him nothing but the best, he's still a Flyer IMHO. God Bless.
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02-13-2015, 11:19 PM
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None the less, good to hear about a Khari Price sighting.
He isn't here anymore, but he was a Flyer!
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02-14-2015, 12:32 AM
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Slow Friday the Thirteenth
2/13/15
A-10 scores:
No A-10 games scheduled
OOC opponents:
No games scheduled
Others getting votes in the USA Today Coaches poll:
#7 Arizona (564) 86 @ Washington 62
Green Bay 59 @ Valparaiso (7) 63
Sleepers:
Iona (20-6, 13-2) 70 @ Manhattan 67
Albany (18-7, 12-0) 65 @ NJIT 59
Yale (17-7, 6-1) 75 @ Penn 48
Colombia 68 @ Harvard (16-5, 6-1) 72
The woe-begotten:
Incarnate Word 77 @ Central Arkansas (1-21, 1-10) 67
_____________________
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02-14-2015, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Medford
Andrew Dawkins just had an ESPN top ten highlight dunk. Michigan winning at Illinois early
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Illinois won in OT at home
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02-14-2015, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I've actually seen Sina play several times, trust me, I'm telling you this kid is a good kid...whatever is going on at SH, Sina is not the problem...this kid busts his arse on the court, great attitude.
Apparently, he's a good student too...IMO, all signs point to there being other big problems at SH...this kid doesn't strike me as someone who quits unless things are really bad.
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From my Seton Hall "deep throat": Background on Sina..........father played two seasons at The Hall under Carlisemo then transferred to Rhode Island then played overseas for awhile. Father is a NJ high school coach. Kid is an excellent student, 3.8 GPA. Willard (Hall's coach) loved the kid.
Rumor has it Sina (son) was getting a lot of abuse from the Hall's student body, degrading him, saying he should not be a starter and worse, etc. Kid couldn't take the abuse any more and left.
The on court situation didn't help. Problem seems to be between Gibbs and Whitehead who reportedly dislike each other intensely. Needless to say it's a mess.
No reports as to where Sina may end up. He has left school and pondering his options.
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02-14-2015, 10:52 AM
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Captain
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IIRC Sina's final 2 were SH and Northwestern. See if he reconsiders the Wildcats.
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02-14-2015, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark
2/13/15
A-10 scores:
No A-10 games scheduled
OOC opponents:
No games scheduled
Others getting votes in the USA Today Coaches poll:
#7 Arizona (564) 86 @ Washington 62
Green Bay 59 @ Valparaiso (7) 63
Sleepers:
Iona (20-6, 13-2) 70 @ Manhattan 67
Albany (18-7, 12-0) 65 @ NJIT 59
Yale (17-7, 6-1) 75 @ Penn 48
Colombia 68 @ Harvard (16-5, 6-1) 72
The woe-begotten:
Incarnate Word 77 @ Central Arkansas (1-21, 1-10) 67
_____________________
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Don't laugh at Incarnate Word, they are 15-6 and hold road wins against Nebraska and Princeton. Not too shabby for a relative newbe to D-1
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02-14-2015, 02:44 PM
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Mich St picks up a huge home win over #23 Ohio St, 59-56
Pitt beats #13 UNC by 13 at home
Boston U up 13 with about 8 min to go
Xavier down 5 at home to Saint Johns with about 2 to go.
Georgia down early to Auburn at home
Tulane is beating Cincy 12-11 with a little over 3 to go in the first half (yes you read that right)
VCU up 5 on GW about 2 min to go in the 1st half.
Davidson doing likewise at LaSalle
Rhody up 9 over SLU about 8 to go in the 1st half.
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02-14-2015, 02:51 PM
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Commander in Chief
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X racks up another loss. This one is at home.
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46 Chambers Alumni (02-15-2015), bobber (02-14-2015), College B-Ball Fan (02-14-2015), flyerfanatic86 (02-16-2015), frisco flyer (02-14-2015), Glen Clark (02-14-2015), San Diego Flyer (02-14-2015), T-Bone 84 (02-14-2015), Tony T 71 (02-14-2015), UD Sam (02-14-2015), Viperstick (02-15-2015) |
02-14-2015, 03:03 PM
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So based on the current standings we are rooting for GW, correct?
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02-14-2015, 03:05 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows
So based on the current standings we are rooting for GW, correct?
Posted via Mobile Device
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Yes, definitely...tied at halftime.
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02-14-2015, 03:31 PM
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X is in a precarious position. 10 losses overall, travel across town to play @ UC on Wednesday, still have a return trip to NYC to play Saint Johns, get Nova hat home, another date with Butler (at home I believe) and a trip to Creighton to close out the regular season. That was a pretty big losing looking at their schedule moving forward.
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02-14-2015, 03:36 PM
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We are rooting for VCU -- no difference in RPI as play both once on the road and GW a bubble team. We want GW to be top 100, but not up for a bid. Also, all things being equal, the GW fans crossed the line so many times a couple weeks ago that I now despise GW.
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02-14-2015, 03:41 PM
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X is on a downhill course straight to the NIT. I will be rooting for them to be one of several BE teams in that tournament, and I will be cheering Incarnate World to beat them in the first round.
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02-14-2015, 03:47 PM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin
We are rooting for VCU -- no difference in RPI as play both once on the road and GW a bubble team. We want GW to be top 100, but not up for a bid. Also, all things being equal, the GW fans crossed the line so many times a couple weeks ago that I now despise GW.
Posted via Mobile Device
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No we're not, we're rooting for GW. We have a chance to win the conference here. The only reason we would worry about RPI of other teams is if we were going to back our way into a bid. We aren't. We're going to win the conference.
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02-14-2015, 03:53 PM
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If doesn't matter, we are going to beat VCU.
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02-14-2015, 04:10 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer
X is on a downhill course straight to the NIT. I will be rooting for them to be one of several BE teams in that tournament, and I will be cheering Incarnate World to beat them in the first round.
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Tuned into the Oregon-UCLA game, and coming out of a timeout, Fox posted a graphic showing a prediction that the BE will get 6 teams into The Dance. I almost choked!
4? Yeah, probably.
5? Maybe, if the tumblers fall the right way for that conference over the next 3-4 weeks.
6? YGBSM!!!
I mean, assuming Providence takes care of Seton Hall (the game just tipped-off, and it's at Providence), there'll be a 1-1/2 game spread between 4th & 5th places. X (5th), St. John's (6th), and Seton Hall (8th) all have too many warts (aka "bad losses") IMHO to warrant serious consideration, compared to other At Large Bid candidates.
6? YGBSM!!!!
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02-14-2015, 04:12 PM
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A crappy Tulane team just hit a buzzer beater to win @ UC. Bad loss for the bearcats.
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02-14-2015, 04:13 PM
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General of the Air Force
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VCU wins 79-66
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02-14-2015, 04:14 PM
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UMass down 11-2 early at home vs. the Dukes... Prolly won't last but funny
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02-14-2015, 04:27 PM
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VCU had a boatload of fans at GW. Only about 2 hours away.
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02-14-2015, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75
No we're not, we're rooting for GW. We have a chance to win the conference here. The only reason we would worry about RPI of other teams is if we were going to back our way into a bid. We aren't. We're going to win the conference.
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I do not care whether we win the conference or not. Who won the A-10 last year? Probably VCU, but really have no idea. Who made an Elite 8 run = Dayton & everyone remembers.
It is all about getting a NCAA bid and then advancing. Nothing else matters in college basketball.
Win the A-10 and lose the first round = mediocre season.
6th place in the A-10 and advance in the NCAA = magical.
I much rather "back our way into a bid."
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02-14-2015, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19
UMass down 11-2 early at home vs. the Dukes... Prolly won't last but funny
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Like I said... it wouldn't last lol
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02-14-2015, 04:29 PM
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G Tech blows another game. Up 53-48 with about 2:45 to go and outscored 9-0 down the stretch to lose 57-53 including missing front end of 1:1 with 8 seconds left to tie it if hit both.
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02-14-2015, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford
X is in a precarious position. 10 losses overall, travel across town to play @ UC on Wednesday, still have a return trip to NYC to play Saint Johns, get Nova hat home, another date with Butler (at home I believe) and a trip to Creighton to close out the regular season. That was a pretty big losing looking at their schedule moving forward.
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Yes, I didn't realize that they are in fact in a precarious situation, their remaining schedule is very tough, they could easily wind up in the NIT.
IMO, it is not that X is getting worse, it is that their league competition has gotten better.
IMO, the BE is in fact a step up in class from the A10.
SJU has some good players, Greene, Harrison, Pointer, and Jordan stood out to me.
If SJU finishes out the way they played today, then they will make the tournament.
If I had to guess, I think these five from the BE make it: Villanova, Georgetown, Providence, Butler, and St. John's. Seton Hall and Xavier may come up short.
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02-14-2015, 04:46 PM
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I think X is getting worse. They began the slide before leaving the A10.
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02-14-2015, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin
G Tech blows another game. Up 53-48 with about 2:45 to go and outscored 9-0 down the stretch to lose 57-53 including missing front end of 1:1 with 8 seconds left to tie it if hit both.
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I listened to the last 5 minutes of it on tune in radio. Gtech announcer sounded exasperated, they definitely blew it. He pointed out they have lost 9 conference games by an average of 3.8 points.
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02-14-2015, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd
I think X is getting worse. They began the slide before leaving the A10.
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I don't know, that could be true, I may have a blind spot, I'm just not really seeing it though. The only thing I'm really seeing is that sometimes their offense is a little stagnant, too much one on one and not enough ball movement and not enough players moving without the ball.
Seems that about half of X's roster is players that were recruited to play in the A10, the other half was recruited to play in the BE. Probably only fair to wait another year or two until all the teams in the league have had a chance to recruit from the same level before evaluating things.
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02-14-2015, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75
No we're not, we're rooting for GW. We have a chance to win the conference here. The only reason we would worry about RPI of other teams is if we were going to back our way into a bid. We aren't. We're going to win the conference.
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Winning the conference won't get us the outbid. Gotta win in Brooklyn
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02-14-2015, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by joeybaloney
I listened to the last 5 minutes of it on tune in radio. Gtech announcer sounded exasperated, they definitely blew it. He pointed out they have lost 9 conference games by an average of 3.8 points.
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Sounds like they're 1 very good player away from being a decent team. Betcha for that reason, and because of finances (as discussed elsewhere), BG gets 1 more year to prove himself. If he doesn't get it done next year, he won't get Year 6. Heck, at the rate they're going, he might not get Year 5, and they might even give a current assistant an "interim" tag for a whole year. Not likely, but in that situation, who knows what Bobinski will do?
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02-14-2015, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by UDEE79
Winning the conference won't get us the outbid. Gotta win in Brooklyn
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Agreed, UDEE79. I don't think the A-10 will get the same degree of "love" from the selection committee this year that we got last year (and we, the A-10, may not deserve it this year). Pedal to the metal, and don't stop until you're holding some hardware at Barclay's.
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02-14-2015, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
Sounds like they're 1 very good player away from being a decent team. Betcha for that reason, and because of finances (as discussed elsewhere), BG gets 1 more year to prove himself. If he doesn't get it done next year, he won't get Year 6. Heck, at the rate they're going, he might not get Year 5, and they might even give a current assistant an "interim" tag for a whole year. Not likely, but in that situation, who knows what Bobinski will do?
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Hard to not like BG as a person, so I hope he does get another year. I for one am rooting for him to do well. He is a class act.
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02-14-2015, 06:37 PM
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I've been following GM vs UR on my phone.. WhooHoo! GM won in OT 71-67. D)
Love it love it love it! One team not quite so hot on our heels.
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02-14-2015, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I don't know, that could be true, I may have a blind spot, I'm just not really seeing it though. The only thing I'm really seeing is that sometimes their offense is a little stagnant, too much one on one and not enough ball movement and not enough players moving without the ball.
Seems that about half of X's roster is players that were recruited to play in the A10, the other half was recruited to play in the BE. Probably only fair to wait another year or two until all the teams in the league have had a chance to recruit from the same level before evaluating things.
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Sorry, I'm not buying the recruiting piece of your post. Xavier was (arguably still is) a national level program recruiting to win on a national level. Their recruiting targets haven't changed since they went to the BE. Seriously?!?! "Hey guys, we're in the Big East now, maybe we should start recruiting better players?"
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02-14-2015, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 66flyer
I've been following GM vs UR on my phone.. WhooHoo! GM won in OT 71-67. D)
Love it love it love it! One team not quite so hot on our heels.
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We needed Richmond to win as they WERE a top 100 win and now they are not. G Tech and Ricmond are no longer top 100 wins ....
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02-14-2015, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin
We needed Richmond to win as they WERE a top 100 win and now they are not. G Tech and Ricmond are no longer top 100 wins ....
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Not really that significant. Top 50 wins is SO much more important than Top 100 wins. That 100 RPI barrier is probably more important to denote losses outside the Top100 than wins inside of it. Richmond was RPI 95 and not helping us get into the tournament, regardless, and was not considered a quality win.
We need top 50 wins, more specifically, wins against the "at large" field and teams that will warrant serious consideration for an at large bid. That's where the rubber meets the road.
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02-14-2015, 09:02 PM
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So like VCU!!
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02-14-2015, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by UDEE79
Winning the conference won't get us the outbid. Gotta win in Brooklyn
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Down year or not, the A10 regular season conference champion is getting a bid to the tournament. I guarantee it.
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02-14-2015, 09:21 PM
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Rpi forecast - rpi drops to 30. Xavier moves to 42. Can't wait to validate against UDPRIDE RPI.
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02-14-2015, 09:46 PM
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Florida's one point losses are really helping us this year lol. Karma from last year's Elite Eight...
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02-14-2015, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER
Not really that significant. Top 50 wins is SO much more important than Top 100 wins. That 100 RPI barrier is probably more important to denote losses outside the Top100 than wins inside of it. Richmond was RPI 95 and not helping us get into the tournament, regardless, and was not considered a quality win.
We need top 50 wins, more specifically, wins against the "at large" field and teams that will warrant serious consideration for an at large bid. That's where the rubber meets the road.
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With all due respect, you are simply wrong about the top 100 (of course top 50 wins are more important than top 100). Committee looks at good wins as top 100. See the official nitty gritty report from last year where 51-100 wins highlighted as well as top 100 wins. https://rpiarchive.ncaa.org/Stats%20...20by%20RPI.pdf
Also see the team sheets where 51-100 matters. Yes, they have the details about wheter win/loss was versus 55 or 95, but they often flash 51-100 and top 100 wins in pure win/loss #s. https://rpiarchive.ncaa.org/Stats%20...m%20Sheets.pdf
Very difficult to construct an argument that George Mason beating Richmond helps Dayton.
But agree we need Ole Miss and Texas A&M top remain in top 50 as our marquee wins, but also would help to have Richmond and Ga Tech fight back to top 100 wins as it matters.
Last edited by ruechalgrin; 02-14-2015 at 11:33 PM..
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02-15-2015, 12:07 AM
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A Valentines day box of basketball chocolates
2/14/15
A-10 scores:
St Bonaventure 61 @ Dayton (7) 75
#22 Virginia Commonwealth (120) 79 @ George Washington (2) 66
St Louis 68 @ Rhode Island (5) 81
Davidson 77 @ La Salle 69
Duquesne 74 @ UMass 82
Richmond 67 @ George Mason 71 (OT)
OOC opponents:
#23 Arkansas (96) 71 @ Ole Miss (10) 70
UConn 55 @ #25 Southern Methodist (39) 73
Florida 62 @ Texas A&M (18) 63
Florida State 57 @ Georgia Tech 53
Bowling Green 79 @ Ball State 65
Akron 75 @ Eastern Michigan 78
Ohio 66 @ Miami (OH) 77
Loyola (MD) 60 @ Boston U 73
Alabama A&M 80 @ Alabama State 71
Others getting votes in the USA Today Coaches poll:
South Carolina 43 @ #1 Kentucky (799) 77
Pepperdine 48 @ #2 Gonzaga (749) 56
Wake Forest 60 @ #3 Virginia (727) 61
#5 Duke (694) 80 @ Syracuse 72
#6 Villanova (626) 68 @ #18 Butler (242) 65
North Carolina State 74 @ #8 Louisville (560) 65
#16 Baylor (328) 64 @ #9 Kansas (517) 74
#13 Wichita State (389) 68 @ Illinois State 62
#20 West Virginia (187) 59 @ #14 Iowa State (388) 79
#15 North Carolina (383) 76 @ Pittsburgh 89
#17 Oklahoma (278) 56 @ Kansas State 59
#19 Maryland (206) 76 @ Penn State 73
#21 Ohio State (128) 56 @ Michigan State 59
#24 Oklahoma State (63) 55 @ TCU 70
Colorado State (9) 63 @ San Diego State (18) 72
Stephen F Austin (15) 63 @ Texas A&M Corpus Christi 71
Texas Tech 41 @ Texas (15) 56
Seton Hall 62 @ Providence (14) 69
Murray State (8) 94 @ Southeast Missouri 92 (OT)
Boise State (4) 64 @ Fresno State 70
San Jose State 60 @ Wyoming (3) 77
Sleepers:
Wofford (21-6, 12-2) 75 @ Western Carolina 55
Sam Houston (20-5, 11-1) 87 @ Houston Baptist 64
Portland State 68 @ Eastern Washington (19-6, 10-2) 66 - the Eagles at-large hopes slipping away
Old Dominion (18-6, 7-5) 47 @ UTEP (17-7, 9-3) 62 - another nail in ODU's at-large coffin
Central Michigan (18-5, 8-4) 75 @ Buffalo 74
Georgia Southern (18-5, 11-3) 72 @ Arkansas-Little Rock 70 (OT)
Florida International 42 @ Louisiana Tech (20-6, 11-2) 75
St Mary's (19-6, 11-3) 69 @ San Diego 62 (2OT)
North Carolina Central (19-6, 11-0) 65 @ Bethune-Cookman 51
Jacksonville 89 @ USC Upstate (19-8, 6-4) 70 - USC Upstate is off the list
Florida Gulf Coast (19-7, 9-1) 76 @ Lipscomb 74
North Dakota State (18-8, 10-3) 58 @ South Dakota State (19-8, 10-3) 68 - no more sleepers in the Summit
High Point (19-7, 10-4) 63 @ Campbell 51
Sacramento State (16-8, 10-3) 58 @ Idaho 69 - the Vandals hand the Hornets their 8th loss, knocking them off the sleepers list
Western Kentucky (16-8, 9-3) 82 @ Marshall 87 - Western Kentucky is off the sleeper list
The woe-begotten:
North Carolina A&T 50 @ Florida A&M (1-23, 1-10) 57 - the nation's longest current losing streak now belongs to someone else
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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02-15-2015, 12:12 AM
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FWIW, the final "1-50", "51-100", "101-200", & "201+" records of last year's "Last 4 in" were:
- North Carolina State 4-10, 3-2, 8-2, 7-0
- Some Jesuit School from Cincinnati 4-6, 5-4, 9-3, 2-0
- Tennessee 3-7, 7-2, 9-4, 4-0
- Iowa 3-10, 3-2, 7-1, 6-0
Two common denominators there:
- All were sub-.500 against the Top 50; and
- All were progressively more dominant as you went further down the RPI-chain, including being undefeated against 200+.
IMHO, what got us in last year was our record against the Top 100 (final was 13-8; as of Selection Sunday, it was presumably 10-7). Combining the stats on last year's Last 4 with ours, the keys seem to be:
- No sub-200 losses; and
- A bunch of 1-100 wins.
Strength of Schedule also plays into it, but there's nothing our Flyers can do about that now. That leaves +200 losses and -100 wins as the "controllables".
Obviously, we want our guys to win 'em all, but as long as they win the 3 at home (St J, GM, & RI) plus the one at Duquesne, they won't have any +100 losses, and they'll have another -100 win. To cement a spot in The Dance, it'd be best to win at least the game at LaSalle (current RPI = 65) and at least 1 game in Brooklyn (assuming a 1-4 Seed to begin with). At that point, we'd be 25-7, with a Top 100 record of probably 6-7, and no +200 losses. It'd be hard to deny an At Large bid to a team with that resume, given the resumes of the Last 4 In in 2014 (unless Northwestern wins the Big 10 tourney, and Wake Forest wins the ACC tourney, and...).
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02-15-2015, 12:18 AM
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And, oh yeah - we want to pray that UConn stays in the Top 100, and that Richmond makes it back in (as long as it's not at our Flyers' expense).
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02-15-2015, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows
So based on the current standings we are rooting for GW, correct?
Posted via Mobile Device
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Yes, we play them twice this year, right?
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02-15-2015, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin
With all due respect, you are simply wrong about the top 100 (of course top 50 wins are more important than top 100). Committee looks at good wins as top 100. See the official nitty gritty report from last year where 51-100 wins highlighted as well as top 100 wins. https://rpiarchive.ncaa.org/Stats%20...20by%20RPI.pdf
Also see the team sheets where 51-100 matters. Yes, they have the details about wheter win/loss was versus 55 or 95, but they often flash 51-100 and top 100 wins in pure win/loss #s. https://rpiarchive.ncaa.org/Stats%20...m%20Sheets.pdf
Very difficult to construct an argument that George Mason beating Richmond helps Dayton.
But agree we need Ole Miss and Texas A&M top remain in top 50 as our marquee wins, but also would help to have Richmond and Ga Tech fight back to top 100 wins as it matters.
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With all due respect, whether Richmond's RPI is 95 or 104 is insignificant on us making the tournament. Neither would be considered a quality win. We need to win games against good teams, and Richmond is not one. It's nothing but fluff.
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02-15-2015, 09:45 AM
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Addendum
I failed to include the venerable UC Bearcats in yesterday's results:
Tulane 50 @ Cincinnati (18) 49
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02-15-2015, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER
With all due respect, whether Richmond's RPI is 95 or 104 is insignificant on us making the tournament. Neither would be considered a quality win. We need to win games against good teams, and Richmond is not one. It's nothing but fluff.
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Agreed. People get too caught up on the top 100 thing. There is essentially no difference between a team at 99 and one at 101. The committee actually uses an average of RPI wins and losses. But the fact that our worst loss is to UConn is a big plus.
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02-15-2015, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER
With all due respect, whether Richmond's RPI is 95 or 104 is insignificant on us making the tournament. Neither would be considered a quality win. We need to win games against good teams, and Richmond is not one. It's nothing but fluff.
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Your argument is like when we hear the RPI is one of many tools. Sure, but most of the documents the committee uses has RPI as foundation when looking at too 50, 100, etc win/losses.
I cited the actual documents the committee uses. I could also cite Joey Brackets who says when the committee talks about teams they often use short-hand like they had d top 50/100 wins and losses. Talking to committee members the last 15 years, he believes small differences like 2 more top 100 wins even in 80s/90s can matter. Just like overall RPI # matters so everyone tries to game it by playing no 201+ teams out of conference (as just as easy to beat 180 as 280, but big difference in final rpi). Also could cite our athletic department who looks to schedule top 100 teams out of conference. Finally, citing one of a ton of articles by journalists who say committee looks at top 50 and 100 wins. http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/02/...ournament.html
What is your evidence that it is just fluff?
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02-15-2015, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin
Your argument is like when we hear the RPI is one of many tools. Sure, but most of the documents the committee uses has RPI as foundation when looking at too 50, 100, etc win/losses.
I cited the actual documents the committee uses. I could also cite Joey Brackets who says when the committee talks about teams they often use short-hand like they had d top 50/100 wins and losses. Talking to committee members the last 15 years, he believes small differences like 2 more top 100 wins even in 80s/90s can matter. Just like overall RPI # matters so everyone tries to game it by playing no 201+ teams out of conference (as just as easy to beat 180 as 280, but big difference in final rpi). Also could cite our athletic department who looks to schedule top 100 teams out of conference. Finally, citing one of a ton of articles by journalists who say committee looks at top 50 and 100 wins. http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/02/...ournament.html
What is your evidence that it is just fluff?
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My evidence is simple logic. You act like there is a black and white, be all/end all line between RPI 100 and 101. The committee is a little smarter than that.
We'll just have to disagree.
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02-15-2015, 12:06 PM
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I'm backing off my prediction that X won't make it, I don't know what is going to happen, this could go either way, I was just guessing...Seton Hall still has a chance too, I just figured losing their pg would really hurt...St. John's has a chance too. Seton Hall seems to be in the worst position of the three.
X is 16-10 right now, they've got five games left, even if they go 2-3 and finish 18-13, they will have a rpi of 43 and a SOS of 12, which I think gets them in. They might be in the First Four again.
17-14 or 16-15 won't get them in IMO.
Last edited by ud2; 02-15-2015 at 12:09 PM..
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02-15-2015, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER
Sorry, I'm not buying the recruiting piece of your post. Xavier was (arguably still is) a national level program recruiting to win on a national level. Their recruiting targets haven't changed since they went to the BE. Seriously?!?! "Hey guys, we're in the Big East now, maybe we should start recruiting better players?"
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No? BE is the the rpi #2 conference this year vs. the A10 traditionally #7 or so.
The 2014 recruiting class was X's best ever...get to play Georgetown, Marquette, and Villanova twice every year...MSG conference tournament...every game is on national tv, not on a regional Fox affiliate that is not available nationwide or on a local station with a limited local viewing area.
IMO, the league change has in fact benefitted their recruiting.
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02-15-2015, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
No? BE is the the rpi #2 conference this year vs. the A10 traditionally #7 or so.
The 2014 recruiting class was X's best ever...get to play Georgetown, Marquette, and Villanova twice every year...MSG conference tournament...every game is on national tv, not on a regional Fox affiliate that is not available nationwide or on a local station with a limited local viewing area.
IMO, the league change has in fact benefitted their recruiting.
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If your schedule is weak, you had better win a lot. If your schedule is difficult, you can afford some level of losing, but you are likely to do some losing. Either way, you had better be good to do enough to get in given both situations. A lot can happen in the last 6 games. Take yesterday as an example. X gets their butts kicked at home. UD takes care of business at home. There is a swing of 12-13 spots in the RPI between them with UD rising and X dropping. Every week, those are the kinds of swings that can take place between bubble teams. Just keep winning baby!
X fans always say they have one of the best recruiting classes ever. Then they go to the play-in game and lose or miss altogether. They recruited better in the A10 based on NCAA tournament results. There is a growing crowd of angry X fans ready to storm the Cementas Center as we speak.
The A10 is having an off-year. The NBE is having a good year. NBE fans are hanging their hat on this years OCC results as if they are a permanent fixture. They have already brushed off last year as if it never happened. They have two points of data and are extrapolating off of the one they like. In a few years, I would like to look at that league as a whole. Add up all of the NCAA appearances/success/failures among those teams before the NBE and after the NBE.
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02-15-2015, 12:43 PM
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ud2,
X can recruit the best All American players in the world, but inconveniently, they still have to play the games. And they have to win enough of them to get into the tournament.
Conference RPI does not matter. A10 RPI does not matter.
When it comes to Selection Sunday, the only things that matters are who you played, and how well you did. X fails the how well you did test, thus they will be heading to the NIT, not the big dance.
At this point in the season, they need a miracle to make the big dance. The problem is miracles only happen to those who deserve them. Thus NIT.
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02-15-2015, 12:45 PM
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Not that I'm shunning the Big East ud2, but if/while A-10 is it, we can still play like its a winning hand.
Hey the legend Doyle Brunson won back to back World Series of Poker
with complete crap. Both times he held 'deuce 10' without help on the flop (next three cards).
That hand in poker (2 10) is called the "Doyle Brunson."
The A 10 will be called the "University of Dayton."
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02-15-2015, 01:05 PM
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Recruiting class rankings stop after the kids start playing. Then teams are ranked based upon what they actually do.
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02-15-2015, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
No? BE is the the rpi #2 conference this year vs. the A10 traditionally #7 or so.
The 2014 recruiting class was X's best ever...get to play Georgetown, Marquette, and Villanova twice every year...MSG conference tournament...every game is on national tv, not on a regional Fox affiliate that is not available nationwide or on a local station with a limited local viewing area.
IMO, the league change has in fact benefitted their recruiting.
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Perhaps, but my point was a simple one - X was already a national player when they jumped to the NBE and it seems undeniable that they enjoyed their greatest national successes and exposure WITHOUT a conference affiliation with the NBE. Granted, they're just in their 2nd year of the NBE and we need a larger variable of measurement, but on a level of national competitiveness, their athletes appear to be on the same level (maybe even less) than their last 20 years.
Gonzaga is #3 in the country and have been a Top 20 team for years now. If they moved to the PAC12 tomorrow, would they all of a sudden change their recruiting strategy? Hey, we need to go get better players. Answer is NO. They are already recruiting talent to be a Top 5 team.
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02-15-2015, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I'm backing off my prediction that X won't make it, I don't know what is going to happen, this could go either way, I was just guessing...Seton Hall still has a chance too, I just figured losing their pg would really hurt...St. John's has a chance too. Seton Hall seems to be in the worst position of the three.
X is 16-10 right now, they've got five games left, even if they go 2-3 and finish 18-13, they will have a rpi of 43 and a SOS of 12, which I think gets them in. They might be in the First Four again.
17-14 or 16-15 won't get them in IMO.
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Well, forget the RPI. They won't put an 18-13 team in the tournament.
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02-15-2015, 03:14 PM
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X....cellant NOT!
Originally Posted by TommyGola
Well, forget the RPI. They won't put an 18-13 team in the tournament.
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Nor should they! To many losses....several that even I would consider NCAA tourney invite "killers".
Would someone please suggest to there AD that they sign "Mack" to another extension soon!
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02-15-2015, 04:14 PM
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Meanwhile, back at the Atlantic 10 Ranch, Fordham is about to hand our next opponent a loss.
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02-15-2015, 04:29 PM
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Lots said here.
-lots can happen these last couple weeks...agree
-only two years comparing BE vs. A10, need more data...agree
-IMO, Gonzaga's recruiting would improve if they were in the Pac12
-IMO, X can get in the tournament with 13 or 14 losses, 14 including the conference tournament, their SOS helps on that front
-regarding BE vs. A10, IMO, you have a better chance of advancing deep in the tournament if you are from a better conference...yes, Butler in the Horizon I think sort of bucked that trend, not sure, I'd have to look it up, otherwise, in terms of just making the tournament, the A10 is fine...X sort of bucked that trend too I guess: 5 times in the Sweet 16 or better I think?...still though, the teams that consistently advance deep come from the power 5 conferences
-Gonzaga has not traditionally advanced deep in the tournament, I think they are almost always out by the round of 64 or 32, there might be only a few exceptions to that
Last edited by ud2; 02-15-2015 at 04:32 PM..
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02-15-2015, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Lots said here.
-lots can happen these last couple weeks...agree
-only two years comparing BE vs. A10, need more data...agree
-IMO, Gonzaga's recruiting would improve if they were in the Pac12
-IMO, X can get in the tournament with 13 or 14 losses, 14 including the conference tournament, their SOS helps on that front
-regarding BE vs. A10, IMO, you have a better chance of advancing deep in the tournament if you are from a better conference...yes, Butler in the Horizon I think sort of bucked that trend, not sure, I'd have to look it up, otherwise, in terms of just making the tournament, the A10 is fine...X sort of bucked that trend too I guess: 5 times in the Sweet 16 or better I think?...still though, the teams that consistently advance deep come from the power 5 conferences
-Gonzaga has not traditionally advanced deep in the tournament, I think they are almost always out by the round of 64 or 32, there might be only a few exceptions to that
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Let's go ahead and use X and Butler as the measuring sticks. In their respective conferences before the BE, they both made the tourney consistently, and advanced into the second weekend. Let's see how well these two do in the BE over the next couple of years. My bet is that they will both gravitate toward the bottom half of the league where mediocrity awaits with open arms.
Time will soon tell the tale.
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02-15-2015, 10:38 PM
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Sunday games
2/15/15
A-10 scores:
St Joe's 55 @ Fordham 69
OOC opponents:
Miami (FL) @ Boston College - postponed, weather
U Illinois-Chicago 59 @ Cleveland State 67
Others getting votes in the USA Today Coaches poll:
Illinois 49 @ #4 Wisconsin (704) 68
#7 Arizona (564) 86 @ Washington State 59
Cal 61 @ #10 Utah (497) 76
#12 Northern Iowa (448) 68 @ Missouri State 57
Minnesota 71 @ Indiana (26) 90
Iowa (20) 61 @ Northwestern 66 (OT)
Valparaiso (7) 62 @ Milwaukee 55
Sleepers:
Iona (21-6, 14-2) 60 @ Quinnipiac 57
_____________________
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02-16-2015, 01:41 AM
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The tournament expanded to 68 teams in 2011.
In 2011, 4 teams lost 14 games and qualified.
Since 2012, 6 teams with 13 losses have qualified, however, 0 teams with 14 losses have qualified. So, 13 losses may be the new cutoff.
It is tough for non-power 5 teams to advance deep in the tournament. Gonzaga has 5 Sweet 16's, X has 6, but only 1 Elite 8 for Gonzaga and 2 Elite 8's for X, and 0 Final Fours for both.
Butler has 4 Sweet 16's since their modern resurgence, 2 Elite 8's, and 2 Final 4's.
Butler is the only non-power 5 school that has broken through to the Final 4 more than once in recent history.
If you get into a tougher league, then your recruiting improves giving you a better chance to advance deep in the tournament, the power 5 dominate from the Sweet 16 to the Final 4.
Most tournament appearances without a Final 4:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_...g_a_Final_Four
BYU 28
Missouri 25
Xavier 24
Alabama, Tennessee, Utah State 20
Creighton 19
Boston College 18
Gonzaga, Miami of Ohio 17
...
Davidson 12
George Washington 11
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02-16-2015, 04:08 PM
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I Am A Statistical God
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For all of you "Gem City Jam" proponents, tonight is your night! The Gem City Jam will be played down in Atlanta, Georgia, when ex-Wright State coach Brad Brownell's Tigers from Clemson meet up with ex-Dayton coach Brian Gregory's Yellowjackets from Georgia Tech.
Wear Yellow! Be Mellow!
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02-16-2015, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Figgie123
For all of you "Gem City Jam" proponents, tonight is your night! The Gem City Jam will be played down in Atlanta, Georgia, when ex-Wright State coach Brad Brownell's Tigers from Clemson meet up with ex-Dayton coach Brian Gregory's Yellowjackets from Georgia Tech.
Wear Yellow! Be Mellow!
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I thought it was extremely ironic that the same night of the Dayton vs. GT game earlier this year at UD Arena, just across town, Wright State was hosting George Mason and ex-GT coach Paul Hewitt. Strange but true.
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02-16-2015, 06:46 PM
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Miami beats BC in 2OT. We need a couple of these to go UD's way. BC wins and RPI boost and bubble team Miami with a bad loss, but alas ....
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02-16-2015, 08:49 PM
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Turned on GT-Clemson. GT was up 17, promptly fouled a 3 point shooter who made all three. Turned it over on the inbounds, gave up a 3, turned it over again, got a rebound, turned that over and gave up a bucket. Clemson cut it to 9. 3 min to go. Sheesh.
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02-16-2015, 08:59 PM
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Hey all right. They're going to hang on to beat Clemson. 63-52.
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02-16-2015, 09:06 PM
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G Tech wins and Bubble Clemson loses. Bubble Pitt loses at UVA. 2 good results for UD.
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02-16-2015, 09:12 PM
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Might well be the last win of the season for Tech given their schedule. For reasons I don't understand, Clemson was on the bubble in a lot of different places, couldn't afford that loss
Speaking of Bubble, the train wreck that has developed at Seton Hall continues as they get thrashed at Nova. They remain on the bubble, but they've lost a bunch lately and appear in complete disarray.
Pitt played valiantly, but lost by 12 at UVA. UVA is fun to watch, great defensively, and move the ball well on the offensive end. They definitely slow things down, but the look capable of scoring better if they were willing to push the pace.
Need Kansas to win at WVU later tonight and Butler to fall at Creighton.
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02-16-2015, 10:01 PM
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To add to Seton Hall's wows, their (arguably) best player took a rather deliberate elbow to the face of Nova's PG. When you see the video, you'll realize he may be done for the rest of the season. He's already taken to twitter and apologized, said he's willing to accept any and all consequences, there really is little question of intent. Bad/dirty play.
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