2016 Transfer Market

[THirt]

Isaac Vann from Maine committed to VCU. Nice get for them.
Posted via Mobile Device

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by Widget What's being lost in this is that no Flyers have announced they are transferring. I'm reading about the speculations regarding team chemistry, but while I hear players from other teams announcing they are leaving, nothing is coming out of the Gem City. Posted via Mobile Device

Arch and staff are as good as it gets at not fueling the rumor mill about any subject. We will hear something definitive about anything only after it is fact. As well it should be. The mouths that really know are on perpetual lockdown.

Any other attempt to diffuse speculative rumors would only fuel more of the same. That is proven by reading any MB.

The suspense is building with the number of offers we have out. Can't wait to see who commits.

[Buckleyma]

I'm pretty disappointed in the names that i have heard so far, on this blog. When Johnny Davis was recruited, he immediately had Donald Smith to practice with or against, depending on your persoective. The rumor was that there was this freshman who was playing toe toe with Smith. I could almost not believe it. A freshman, you said? The two honed their skills and became the best guard duo in Dayton history (IMHO). Now, we have Steve McElvene who I see as desperately needing a practice buddy. None of these names are that person. This is a missed opportunity for both Steve and the lucky person brought in.

Another practice duo (of lesser impact) was Sedric Toney and the Harris kid. There were two of Chris Harris's kids. I'm talking about the younger one. I can't remember his first name (Ted?). Anyway, this Harris kid gave Sedric Toney all that he had and all that Sedric Toney could handle in practice after practice. Harris did not start nor play much but he made Sedric Toney a better player.
Posted via Mobile Device

[THirt]

Savon Goodman from Arizona State commits to LaSalle. He's a grad transfer and immediately eligible. LaSalle could actually be very very good next year if their guys pan out and coach G can keep the head cases from being head cases.
Posted via Mobile Device

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[OSU Flyer]

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN 11h11 hours ago Two more grad transfers to add to the list: Colorado State guard John Gillon (13.2 ppg) and Lipscomb guard J.C. Hampton (15.9 ppg).

[DallasFlyer]

No mention of Dayton...

@GoodmanESPN
Drexel transfer Terrell Allen told ESPN he will visit Central Florida and Va Tech over next two weekends. Averaged 9.8 points as freshman.

[C-time]

According to Jon Rothstein on twitter AJ Harris is now considering Duquesne, Umass, and Cleveland St. No visits have been set.

https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/sta...66618657726464

Looks like Harris can't get any playing time guarantees at any big schools and is setting his sights lower to make sure he can start and get minutes.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[Sea Bass]

if a guy wants to play a lot of minutes then he needs to pick a place where he will get the opportunity. Dukes had no behind their starting guards last season.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by C-time According to Jon Rothstein on twitter AJ Harris is now considering Duquesne, Umass, and Cleveland St. No visits have been set. https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/sta...66618657726464 Looks like Harris can't get any playing time guarantees at any big schools and is setting his sights lower to make sure he can start and get minutes.

Well, Cleveland State worked-out pretty well for another recent Dunbar grad (Cole), and I seem to remember another highly-rated guard who did pretty well after leaving tOSU and going to an A-10 program, so that's probably a good strategy for Harris. As long as he winds-up with a coach who knows how to develop players.

Hmmmm. I seem to remember hearing about a coach (and a school) that does a pretty good job of developing players. Now, who was that...?
Posted via Mobile Device

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[lhsgolf19]

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein · 1m1 minute ago

Alabama transfer Michael Kessens told @CBSSports that he has committed to Florida International. Immediately eligible for next season.

[DallasFlyer]

Seems like efforts are concentrated on 2017 kids instead of transfers. From earlier today....

@GoodmanESPN
Virginia Tech transfer Jalen Hudson told ESPN he will take a visit to Florida this weekend. Plans to visit Texas and Purdue soon.

[OSU Flyer]

Still time for things to shake out on the transfer market

[DallasFlyer]

Have not seen a single school mentioned for Javon Bess. Wonder if Dayton is involved with him?

[lhsgolf19]

Jon Rothstein Verified account 
‏@JonRothstein
Towson transfer Byron Hawkins told @CBSSports his top choices are Murray State, Dayton , Eastern Michigan, and Cal St Northridge.

[DallasFlyer]

I like our chances to get him against that bunch, and he looks like he could be a nice fit.

Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 Jon Rothstein Verified account  ‏@JonRothstein Towson transfer Byron Hawkins told @CBSSports his top choices are Murray State, Dayton , Eastern Michigan, and Cal St Northridge.

2015-16: Played in 31 games and made 30 starts … Was second on the team and 12th in the CAA in scoring (13.2 ppg.) and 12th in free-throw percentage (77.8%) … Hawkins was 13th in the CAA in 3-pointers made per game (1.9) … He led the Tigers in scoring eight times, assists 12 times and steals seven times … He scored in double figures 23 times … Scored a career-high 28 points against Ole Miss in the Charleston Classic … That started a stretch in which he scored 20 or more points in three of Towson’s four games … He scored 24 against Bradley and 20 against Coppin State … He scored 23 points in a road win against Drexel … He made at least two 3-pointers in a game 17 times … Made a career best seven 3-pointers against Ole Miss … He’s had three games this season in which he’s attempted at least 10 free throws (Coppin State, James Madison and Drexel) … He handed out a season best five assists against Delaware.

http://www.towsontigers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5952

[John C.]

34% from the field and 29% from 3 as a freshman. Moved up to 39% and 31%.That is more than a little concerning for a semi-volume shooter.

[OSU Flyer]

Read the Towson board thread on him it sounds like he was their primary PG but was better suited for being off the ball

http://towsonfans.com/forums/index.p...ferring/page-3

[maddog07]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Read the Towson board thread on him it sounds like he was their primary PG but was better suited for being off the ball http://towsonfans.com/forums/index.p...ferring/page-3

Would hope we would prevail easily against these lesser lights. Would feel better if we were up against and winning against our own kind!!!!

[224]

Matthew Schwade at Flyer Hoops is reporting Darrell Davis is transferring. Just waiting on final confirmation from school.

[BRob2Perryman3]

224, do you have a link so i can read it, or is behind the Rivals paywall?

[Swampy Meadows]

Just a "rumbling" at this point. Matt is trying to get confirmation from the school.
Posted via Mobile Device

[jack72]

Surprised but not shocked. Obviously Darrell's head was not right last year. Whether that is the coaches, his teammates or a personal situation, he probably needs a change of scenery. He does not handle pressure well, but of course there is pressure everywhere. Wish him the best, as he seems like a great kid.

Now we really have an outside shooting hole. If Charles goes and Darrell, we need shooters and more shooters. The two guys we are adding have no outside shot. My concerns have changed to real worry.

[kiefaber455]

[QUOTE=jack72;455905]Surprised but not shocked. He does not handle pressure well, but of course there is pressure everywhere. Wish him the best, as he seems like a great kid.

Handled the pressure well enough to hit the game winner at URI.

	Rhode Island RHODE ISLAND The University of Rhode Island was chartered as the state's agricultural school in 1888. The school became the Rhode Island College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in 1892. Located in southern Rhode Island, URI is a quintessential New England campus - rural in feeling yet close to the city of Providence, the state's capital. Linked to the city, the beaches, and nearly every corner of the state by both rail and public transit, the campus is easily accessible from Boston and New York URI currently offers 100 majors in seven degree-granting colleges. There are more than 12,000 students on the Kingston campus, about 3,000 in Providence, and a complement of about 700 faculty. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams.

[maddog07]

This would be welcome news. In order to improve we need to weed out the bottom and DD's clearly qualified. Losing a shooter is not problem--- anyone can take them--it's about making them and boy he didn't make them. Only Pollard of the regular players shot a worse percentage from three and my cat can out-make Pollard from deep. Sure we'll miss his block- yes 1 block and his 3 offensive rebounds, but assuming we replace him with anyone other than a fish we should at least break even. A shame since he looked so promising as a frosh, but last year rather than improve he regressed.

[anthonycharles]

Originally Posted by 224 Matthew Schwade at Flyer Hoops is reporting Darrell Davis is transferring. Just waiting on final confirmation from school.

Crap. I don't like this. Davis struggled last year, but the potential is there.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by maddog07 This would be welcome news. In order to improve we need to weed out the bottom and DD's clearly qualified. Losing a shooter is not problem--- anyone can take them--it's about making them and boy he didn't make them. Only Pollard of the regular players shot a worse percentage from three and my cat can out-make Pollard from deep. Sure we'll miss his block- yes 1 block and his 3 offensive rebounds, but assuming we replace him with anyone other than a fish we should at least break even. A shame since he looked so promising as a frosh, but last year rather than improve he regressed.

Do you ever have anything positive to contribute?

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by 224 Matthew Schwade at Flyer Hoops is reporting Darrell Davis is transferring. Just waiting on final confirmation from school.

I raised this possibility about a month ago on this board. The young man was totally frustrated all season long. When a 2-guard loses his shot, it becomes highly difficult to see floor time. I wish him well and hope he finds a happy home. I see him going to Oakland or Eastern Michigan, someplace near Detroit...maybe not; we will see.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by UD62 Do you ever have anything positive to contribute?

I think the next will be the first. Likes to say it's objectivity but anything but
Posted via Mobile Device

[jack72]

DeSean Murray and Ronnie Johnson both are transferring to Auburn. Murray averaged 20 pts and 7 rbs at Presbyterian.

[maddog07]

Originally Posted by UD62 Do you ever have anything positive to contribute?

This is positive. He was positively awful and now we have an opportunity to improve. Do you always find the truth troubling??
Posted via Mobile Device

[224]

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 224, do you have a link so i can read it, or is behind the Rivals paywall?

I have a screenshot, but the post says "Hearing rumblings that Darrell Davis is transferring...would potentially give Dayton two scholarships to use for the fall. Waiting on school to confirm."

Go back and look at his tweets since the season ended. Granted it could be about anything, but given his struggles this past season, his rumored transfer and who we may be close to signing on the transfer market that may steal some of his playing time...my hunch would say they are basketball related.

[BRob2Perryman3]

This would worry me under our last three coaches, but not Archie. He's proven his worth. Has my faith. In Archie I(we) should trust.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by maddog07 This is positive. He was positively awful and now we have an opportunity to improve. Do you always find the truth troubling?? Posted via Mobile Device

You make my point, thanks

[udscott]

Contribution can be negative or positive, why does he only have to contribute positive opinions ? DD is a great guy but he stunk last year, that is not even debatable, so he said nothing but factual information, I don't want him to leave I hope he turns it around
Posted via Mobile Device

[udflyerhoops2]

Purely speculation on my part, but I agree with TommyGola. I believe somewhere closer to Detroit is probably where Darrell belongs if he has to leave Dayton. With the losses he had in his family he might just want to go home. Can't fault a kid for that.

Darrell had a bad year on the court, and he'd be the first one to say that, but everyone deals with real life differently. Some people drink...some people turn violent...Darrell just missed some three pointers.

Cut the kid a break. Thank him for for being a Flyer and have his back...whatever his future holds.

[UD62]

Originally Posted by udscott Contribution can be negative or positive, why does he only have to contribute positive opinions ? DD is a great guy but he stunk last year, that is not even debatable, so he said nothing but factual information, I don't want him to leave I hope he turns it around Posted via Mobile Device

Agree, my question is why does he almost always have negative comments? I believe a poster loses his effectiveness when all he does is b**ch. But it's a free country, at least for now, and he can do as he pleases. Doesn't mean that I can't do the same.

[San Diego Flyer]

Whatever caused DD to lose his Freshman stroke became fixated in his head. It clearly spilled over into other aspects of his game. We were heading toward a tie-breaker season for DD, and it really was not clear which way he would go---better or worse.

He gave his supporters some plays that made one think he was going to snap out of it. He gave his detractors even more to be skeptical.

His leaving just might be a win-win. A new theater with another year to mature may be what the doctor orders for his resurrection as a force from 3 pt while continuing to improve his play inside the arc (which he did from his Frosh year).

For the team, there are a lot of options to fill those minutes with more and better productivity. He played recklessly out of control far too often IMO.

[BRob2Perryman3]

If he leaves, good luck, if he stays, good luck i hope he wins the Chris Daniels award

[Lifelong Flyer Fan]

He won it this year.

[BRob2Perryman3]

Pretty sure Isaiah Miles won it from St. Joe's.

[Lifelong Flyer Fan]

Dayton's Most Improved is also called the Chris Daniel's Award. That is what I was referring to. I wasn't thinking about the A10 when I read your post.

[Swampy Meadows]

Darrell not only had an aunt die with whom he was very close but his mom's health has supposedly been poor as well. You only get one mom and you can imagine how that would gnaw at you.
Posted via Mobile Device

[flyerfanday1]

per Jon Rothstein and others, Hallice Cooke from Iowa State is transferring. A few years back, it was between Dayton and Iowa State for him. Not sure if hes immediately eligible

[jerseyflyer09]

was just going to post about Cooke. Yeah, weird situation. Will be his 3rd school in as many years. Played frosh year at Oregon State, sat a year out at ISU, then played last year. 3 academic years + a transfer I doubt he graduated. That means, unless there are circumstances I'm unaware of he would have to sit out another year to have only ONE year eligible.

Saw him play a few times in HS...he was very good and his team was phenomenal. Haven't seen him play since. On talent he could be a great player in the A10 but seems like it's a lot of work and potential risk for one season.

[DallasFlyer]

When Hallice Cooke transferred out of Oregon State, the thinking was he was a future NBA talent. Since then, he has really struggled.

Scoochie tried to recruit him to Dayton I believe and Hallice came on an official visit I think.

[Gazoo]

On DD, here's a hypothesis to consider: as a freshman he was behind Siebert. As a sophomore he's behind Cooke, and will be again next year. I don't think he sees a path to a starting role until he's a senior. . . and if history is any guide there are people coming out of the woodwork that keep looking better than him. I don't think he wants to wait and see if he's good enough to start as a senior.

I saw a guy this year who looked like he was trying really, really hard but didn't have the game to assume a starting role. If he stayed until his senior year could he? Sure, that's not unreasonable. But at 170 pounds soaking wet and not a great defender, it's reasonable to assume it's not highly likely. That will mess with your head when you're trying to perform.

Might be why he shot so poorly.

[Bucketnight]

Originally Posted by Gazoo On DD, here's a hypothesis to consider: as a freshman he was behind Siebert. As a sophomore he's behind Cooke, and will be again next year. I don't think he sees a path to a starting role until he's a senior. . . and if history is any guide there are people coming out of the woodwork that keep looking better than him. I don't think he wants to wait and see if he's good enough to start as a senior. I saw a guy this year who looked like he was trying really, really hard but didn't have the game to assume a starting role. If he stayed until his senior year could he? Sure, that's not unreasonable. But at 170 pounds soaking wet and not a great defender, it's reasonable to assume it's not highly likely. That will mess with your head when you're trying to perform. Might be why he shot so poorly.

That's just great... spoil the off-season with an unemotional well reasoned opinion.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Gazoo On DD, here's a hypothesis to consider: as a freshman he was behind Siebert. As a sophomore he's behind Cooke, and will be again next year. I don't think he sees a path to a starting role until he's a senior. . . and if history is any guide there are people coming out of the woodwork that keep looking better than him. I don't think he wants to wait and see if he's good enough to start as a senior. I saw a guy this year who looked like he was trying really, really hard but didn't have the game to assume a starting role. If he stayed until his senior year could he? Sure, that's not unreasonable. But at 170 pounds soaking wet and not a great defender, it's reasonable to assume it's not highly likely. That will mess with your head when you're trying to perform. Might be why he shot so poorly.

Do we know that Cooke is coming back? If so, you have a point though I just cannot see him not starting his senior season. I would think that if Cooke is not coming back, the decision is already known by AM and that he would at least confidentially pass that on to DD. If he's not going to improve enough here to start his senior season, transferring to another school is not going to get him into pro basketball so what's the point? I would think he has a better chance with AM to get the best out of him than anyone would at a smaller program.

I have a feeling it's not about basketball and more about family as Swampy said. If this kid has any dreams of making money at basketball I just don't see how leaving Dayton would help him. However, if I remember correctly, he was a star academically coming out of high school and if basketball is secondary to him, it would make sense he might want to be closer to his family with health issues.

[Jeff]

Off season is a blast!

So far, in no particular order, DD, Cooke, Miller, are looking to leave, Mikesell to be tossed (about 600 posts on his ability), Crosby's not really point guard, and Pierre & Werhli graduated.

How many games did they win last year?

[Atlantic 10]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Do we know that Cooke is coming back? If so, you have a point though I just cannot see him not starting his senior season. I would think that if Cooke is not coming back, the decision is already known by AM and that he would at least confidentially pass that on to DD. If he's not going to improve enough here to start his senior season, transferring to another school is not going to get him into pro basketball so what's the point? I would think he has a better chance with AM to get the best out of him than anyone would at a smaller program. I have a feeling it's not about basketball and more about family as Swampy said. If this kid has any dreams of making money at basketball I just don't see how leaving Dayton would help him. However, if I remember correctly, he was a star academically coming out of high school and if basketball is secondary to him, it would make sense he might want to be closer to his family with health issues.

Well since Cooke didn't hire a agent, plus wasn't invited to the NBA combine. He is coming back

[Dogdaddy]

Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 Well since Cooke didn't hire a agent, plus wasn't invited to the NBA combine. He is coming back

I am not so sure. He could use the process to say "the advice I received was to play in Europe to build my skills for the NBA". If the tension with the current Flyers is as some have reported, then he may be looking for a graceful way to move on to the next chapter of his career.

[Bucketnight]

Originally Posted by Dogdaddy I am not so sure. He could use the process to say "the advice I received was to play in Europe to build my skills for the NBA". If the tension with the current Flyers is as some have reported, then he may be looking for a graceful way to move on to the next chapter of his career.

I thought the primary goal of the evaluation was to keep kids from leaving school too early. In theory, it has the duel benefit of making the draft safer raising the probability of success and makes college basketball stronger by decreasing the number of kids that leave early.

In the latter, it appeases the free primary feeder system to the NBA... college basketball (and its coaches). For this reason, I don't think kids are advised to leave school and go to Europe. Doesn't mean a kid won't. Especially if a kid is told they would need to spend a couple years in Europe after they finish their college career. If CC were to leave, I think the decision would be completely his not based on following the provided advice.

That being said, I think he did what dozens of players did... took advantage of an opportunity that is provided to him. I think he should have done it as all players at a certain level should. Hopefully, he received advice that makes him a better Flyer next season.

[Sea Bass]

Originally Posted by Bucketnight I thought the primary goal of the evaluation was to keep kids from leaving school too early

The goal is to give the player more information. Most of them have little interest in being in college or earning a degree so just because they get information that tells them they are not going to be drafted and are not ready to play in the NBA may not persuade them to return to school.

[jack72]

The money has to be tempting over anything else. If Cooke can make $100k or more in Europe, and he is feeling uneasy at UD, he is probably gone. That kind of money to a college kid is a fortune.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Do we know that Cooke is coming back? If so, you have a point though I just cannot see him not starting his senior season. I would think that if Cooke is not coming back, the decision is already known by AM and that he would at least confidentially pass that on to DD. If he's not going to improve enough here to start his senior season, transferring to another school is not going to get him into pro basketball so what's the point? I would think he has a better chance with AM to get the best out of him than anyone would at a smaller program. I have a feeling it's not about basketball and more about family as Swampy said. If this kid has any dreams of making money at basketball I just don't see how leaving Dayton would help him. However, if I remember correctly, he was a star academically coming out of high school and if basketball is secondary to him, it would make sense he might want to be closer to his family with health issues.

Technically no, none of us know CC's plans, but I would imagine DD has a closer relationship than any of us do with CC so I'm sure he has a better feel for that than you and me.

There is far from any guarantees for DD in his senior year. Imagine if a player like CC or JS were transferring into UD and eligible to play during his senior season. He would not start. Do we have one of those players transferring in? No. . . not yet. But it's not unreasonable to assume that we will. It's happened twice in a row.

Also, do you really think DD has any future in the NBA? Not a chance. I'll bet my personal fortune on that one. (Deliverable in $10's and $20's, bring a medium-sized suitcase.) DD must know that if he can't start on a mid-major college team that has a marginal NBA player (meaning not an NBA superstar-in-waiting) ahead of him as a junior, there will surely be somebody else ahead of him by the time draft day comes. His only chance is to find a school like Oakland where he makes a name for himself by shooting the lights out and scoring 20 points per game and shooting 45% from 3. He could shoot 45% from 3 for UD and not get noticed because he probably won't get the chance to shoot more than 4 per game for us.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by jack72 The money has to be tempting over anything else. If Cooke can make $100k or more in Europe, and he is feeling uneasy at UD, he is probably gone. That kind of money to a college kid is a fortune.

Cooke's parents are very active back home in New Jersey as community / education advocates. My guess is their advice would be for him to graduate, then pursue his basketball career - unless an NBA team tells him they are going to draft him which seems highly unlikely.

[BRob2Perryman3]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Technically no, none of us know CC's plans, but I would imagine DD has a closer relationship than any of us do with CC so I'm sure he has a better feel for that than you and me. There is far from any guarantees for DD in his senior year. Imagine if a player like CC or JS were transferring into UD and eligible to play during his senior season. He would not start. Do we have one of those players transferring in? No. . . not yet. But it's not unreasonable to assume that we will. It's happened twice in a row. Also, do you really think DD has any future in the NBA? Not a chance. I'll bet my personal fortune on that one. (Deliverable in $10's and $20's, bring a medium-sized suitcase.) DD must know that if he can't start on a mid-major college team that has a marginal NBA player (meaning not an NBA superstar-in-waiting) ahead of him as a junior, there will surely be somebody else ahead of him by the time draft day comes. His only chance is to find a school like Oakland where he makes a name for himself by shooting the lights out and scoring 20 points per game and shooting 45% from 3. He could shoot 45% from 3 for UD and not get noticed because he probably won't get the chance to shoot more than 4 per game for us.

Your post was funny. I was laughing. The suitcase was great. Then you called us a mid-major. We are alot closer to high major then mid-major. Were just stuck in a mid-major conference.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 Your post was funny. I was laughing. The suitcase was great. Then you called us a mid-major. We are alot closer to high major then mid-major. Were just stuck in a mid-major conference.

Meh, semantics. I was just making the point that it's not like we're Kansas and he's not able to start until he's a senior. That might be different. Let's be honest if you struggle to earn a starting spot at UD where we win based on more of a team approach (not spectacular individual stars), there are probably 40 or 50 people ahead of you on a global draft board. It's not like there are 3 other shooting guards on the UD bench who are future NBA draft picks that DD would be holding back.

It's not impossible I'm just saying it's not likely.

[DallasFlyer]

Michigan's Kameron Chatman who was once a very highly-rated recruit at Michigan is transferring. A much better player than he showed in his two years at Michigan in my opinion, he will probably head back out west as he's originally from Oregon. Probably not a Dayton target but will be interesting where he surfaces.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/co...sfer/83881018/

And on a related note, was curious where Michigan's Spike Albrecht would end up. After initially being blocked from transferring in-conference (Big Ten has no intra-conference restriction) he's going to Purdue.

[lhsgolf19]

As a UM fan, Kam Chatman totally blows lol

Outside of his buzzer beater against IU he was awful... Archie better not go after him ha

[anthonycharles]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer Cooke's parents are very active back home in New Jersey as community / education advocates. My guess is their advice would be for him to graduate, then pursue his basketball career - unless an NBA team tells him they are going to draft him which seems highly unlikely.

Has Cooke not graduated? He's been in college 4 yrs.

It would be in Cooke's best interests to play in the States to be seen by NBA scouts if he wants a chance to be drafted next year. If he goes to Europe, he gets lost in the abyss.

[DallasFlyer]

Someone indicated he has not graduated. But yeah, I would imagine he would be really close.

[steve]

Originally Posted by anthonycharles Has Cooke not graduated? He's been in college 4 yrs. It would be in Cooke's best interests to play in the States to be seen by NBA scouts if he wants a chance to be drafted next year. If he goes to Europe, he gets lost in the abyss.

That's really not true at all in today's age. 15-20 years ago I would agree with you.If you got talent they'll find you..There is an international connection between Europe and other parts of the world and the NBA like at no other time in history. All teams in some fashiom employ or at least contract out to international scouts and scouting systems..

With all the social media and mediums today a good play/game/stretch by any player is no secret to any NBA team or GM..

[Windy City Flyer]

Originally Posted by steve That's really not true at all in today's age. 15-20 years ago I would agree with you.If you got talent they'll find you..There is an international connection between Europe and other parts of the world and the NBA like at no other time in history. All teams in some fashiom employ or at least contract out to international scouts and scouting systems.. With all the social media and mediums today a good play/game/stretch by any player is no secret to any NBA team or GM..

Out of the top 50 NBA prospects 12 come from outside the US this year. Last year 12 foreign players were drafted. Unfortunately, for CC 6-4 shooing guards are easy to come by. He's just not good enough of a shooter for the NBA.

[Buckleyma]

Since this is not a Cooke thread, i will shift the stream back to transfers. I am surprised that there are not more players leaving schools like Louisville and SMU (Southern Methodist) with their NCAA sanctions (now and/or later)? I know that one McDonald All- American left SMU to transfer to the University of North Texas. I thought that transfer was very weird. I guess just a local kid who wanted to get out but stay close to his home in Dallas Texas. I would have thought that he could have done better for himself.

But, how do these coaches (Brown and Pitino) continue to obtain loyalty from their troops in such situations? While Archie could lose two nice players (and probably two nice kids once you get to know them)? I don't get these dynamics? In the case of Louisville and SMU, i would recommend my son to leave immediately and find a place where the coach shows real leadership and ethical standards.
Posted via Mobile Device

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by Buckleyma Since this is not a Cooke thread, i will shift the stream back to transfers. I am surprised that there are not more players leaving schools like Louisville and SMU (Southern Methodist) with their NCAA sanctions (now and/or later)? I know that one McDonald All- American left SMU to transfer to the University of North Texas. I thought that transfer was very weird. I guess just a local kid who wanted to get out but stay close to his home in Dallas Texas. I would have thought that he could have done better for himself. But, how do these coaches (Brown and Pitino) continue to obtain loyalty from their troops in such situations? While Archie could lose two nice players (and probably two nice kids once you get to know them)? I don't get these dynamics? In the case of Louisville and SMU, i would recommend my son to leave immediately and find a place where the coach shows real leadership and ethical standards. Posted via Mobile Device

SMU=Keith Frazier= transcript issues= unresolved in the minds of many.

[steve]

Originally Posted by Windy City Flyer Out of the top 50 NBA prospects 12 come from outside the US this year. Last year 12 foreign players were drafted. Unfortunately, for CC 6-4 shooing guards are easy to come by. He's just not good enough of a shooter for the NBA.

I'm not sure they're easy to come by based on how the NBA has struggled with scoring and shooters over the years......Sure, some of those guys may be able to shoot but who do they guard?

CC was close to a 50% 3 point shooter most of the year and did tail off but ended up at 39.99 % which is very very good..CC is 6'5", very long, strong, very very athletic, very quick, and has over a 40" vertical, PLUS he can defend, block shots, and had his nice share of steals....What else is there?

Sure, he needs to NOT get lost in parts of games as much as he seemed to last season and does, imo, need to be a much better and stronger finisher at the rim, but he's got alot of nice assets to play in the NBA and especially with another good year can find that late 1st round/early 2nd..

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by Buckleyma But, how do these coaches (Brown and Pitino) continue to obtain loyalty from their troops in such situations? While Archie could lose two nice players (and probably two nice kids once you get to know them)? I don't get these dynamics? In the case of Louisville and SMU, i would recommend my son to leave immediately and find a place where the coach shows real leadership and ethical standards. Posted via Mobile Device

For many kids, parents, coaches and other "advisors," "brand name" and NBA cred - are probably the primary factors. Recruiting can be vicious and others will no doubt warn these kids about the Caliparis, Pitinos, and Browns of this world, but "playing for an ethical leader" is probably not all that high on the list for many when evaluating a coach. I say coach because the actual school even is often a secondary consideration.

[anthonycharles]

Originally Posted by steve That's really not true at all in today's age. 15-20 years ago I would agree with you.If you got talent they'll find you..There is an international connection between Europe and other parts of the world and the NBA like at no other time in history. All teams in some fashiom employ or at least contract out to international scouts and scouting systems.. With all the social media and mediums today a good play/game/stretch by any player is no secret to any NBA team or GM..

Scouts are usually utilized oversees to scout players from oversees, not guys who played 3 years in Div. 1 basketball in the U.S. I know a couple of guys have gone straight from HS in the US to China or Europe to play, but those guys were already on the radar of NBA teams because they were HS All-Americans.

I stand by my statement that if Charles wants to be drafted next year, he has a better chance of being noticed here in the US playing Div. 1 basketball than getting lost oversees.

[steve]

Originally Posted by anthonycharles Scouts are usually utilized oversees to scout players from oversees, not guys who played 3 years in Div. 1 basketball in the U.S. I know a couple of guys have gone straight from HS in the US to China or Europe to play, but those guys were already on the radar of NBA teams because they were HS All-Americans. I stand by my statement that if Charles wants to be drafted next year, he has a better chance of being noticed here in the US playing Div. 1 basketball than getting lost oversees.

You are incorrect,imo. Scouts are scouts. There are international scouts and there are scouts who focus their attention on domestic players and many do both. First off, regardless where CC is actually "from", he is still going to be classified as a "player playing overseas" . BTW, Brian Roberts says hello. He's a guy that played overseas to make a living AND to "get better", which he did, never fell thru the cracks despite being there for years, and now is on his way to a NBA pension. Should he have stayed and languished in the NBA D league?

If CC does NOT get a passing grade from the NBA and still leaves school or signs with an agent and does not get drafted it means he needs to simply get better, work on his game, and get noticed. Generally,it does not matter what country he is playing in ......I don't think you're interpreting just how international the NBA is and the length of it's tentacles. If you're good then they will find you.

The skill-set of international players is off the charts. These guys don't get drafted by the NBA because they're athletic ability is off the charts.Should CC play ball at the YMCA rec center? Play ball in the NBA D league? Maybe, maybe not but when you play in a really good league overseas with a bunch of highly skilled players that does tend to rub off..

When over half of a NBA drafts for years is consisting of international players that should tell you all you need to know..

It's no different than a player playing in the hills of WVA for a NAIA school or CC playing in Greece in an A league..

"Scouts are usually utilized oversees to scout players from oversees"

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by anthonycharles Scouts are usually utilized oversees to scout players from oversees, not guys who played 3 years in Div. 1 basketball in the U.S. I know a couple of guys have gone straight from HS in the US to China or Europe to play, but those guys were already on the radar of NBA teams because they were HS All-Americans. I stand by my statement that if Charles wants to be drafted next year, he has a better chance of being noticed here in the US playing Div. 1 basketball than getting lost oversees.

I understand your point, but isn't that irrational in practice? Imagine you're Joe Scout. You're sitting in China and your job is to STRICTLY look for foreign players, when you see this guy just eating up the competition. It looks like this "Charles Cook" guy added 15 pounds of muscle and 4 inches on his vertical since college, and he can't miss from 3. You see him play a dozen times, always the same thing.

You're saying Joe is going to call his boss and report, "You really need to look at Xing Jaiopan, the guy shoots 38% from the field and is an OK ball handler." Because that's the best foreign player he's seen. Jaiopan gets a look from the NBA team who quickly determines he's not nearly good enough and doesn't listen to anything Joe says for the next year.

Does that really make sense?

Seems to me if Joe values his job he's going to tell them about the best players he sees on the court.

[anthonycharles]

When was the last time a guy who played 3 yrs in Div. 1 college basketball went oversees and got drafted? I don't recall that ever happening and doubt Charles will be the first.

I agree, guys can get better by playing oversees, but I'm specifically talking about the draft. If Charles wants to get drafted, he has a better chance staying here than going over there. Even if that means making $30k a year in the NBDL.

Sorry...this thread has gone off-topic.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by anthonycharles Sorry...this thread has gone off-topic.

Terrell Allen -the Drexel transfer Dayton was rumored to be interested in is transferring to UCF.

[DallasFlyer]

A new transfer that looks interesting to me...

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...38/dylan-smith

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2...eaving_un.html

http://www.citizen-times.com/story/s...ille/83968034/

[steve]

Originally Posted by anthonycharles When was the last time a guy who played 3 yrs in Div. 1 college basketball went oversees and got drafted? I don't recall that ever happening and doubt Charles will be the first. I agree, guys can get better by playing oversees, but I'm specifically talking about the draft. If Charles wants to get drafted, he has a better chance staying here than going over there. Even if that means making $30k a year in the NBDL. Sorry...this thread has gone off-topic.

Why it's gone off-topic is your inability to logically see this. Again, he does NOT have to get drafted to play in the NBA. He can go the overseas, get better and make $$$, and then get signed by a NBA team by going thru an organizations summer camp(s), etc. He's basically a UFA.

[UDDoug]

Every college player is. Cooke is no different. You don't have to put your name in the NBA draft to go overseas and make money. You just don't show up for school and sign a contract if you want to go over seas and make money. This IS about being drafted.
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[ud2]

Originally Posted by anthonycharles When was the last time a guy who played 3 yrs in Div. 1 college basketball went oversees and got drafted? I don't recall that ever happening and doubt Charles will be the first. I agree, guys can get better by playing oversees, but I'm specifically talking about the draft. If Charles wants to get drafted, he has a better chance staying here than going over there. Even if that means making $30k a year in the NBDL. Sorry...this thread has gone off-topic.

I gotta agree with you here...once you go to Europe, your chances of getting drafted by the NBA significantly decrease IMO. I can't think of even one college player that went to Europe and was then later drafted.

And I could be wrong, but a guy like Brian Roberts seems pretty unusual. Are there really that many US college players getting to the NBA from Europe or overseas?

[Swampy Meadows]

Originally Posted by UDDoug Every college player is. Cooke is no different. You don't have to put your name in the NBA draft to go overseas and make money. You just don't show up for school and sign a contract if you want to go over seas and make money. This IS about being drafted. Posted via Mobile Device

The part of the equation you left out is hire an agent to get you the overseas contract. Once you do that, you are done with college eligibility, whether the deal is with the NBA or a team overseas.

[anthonycharles]

Originally Posted by steve Why it's gone off-topic is your inability to logically see this. Again, he does NOT have to get drafted to play in the NBA. He can go the overseas, get better and make $$$, and then get signed by a NBA team by going thru an organizations summer camp(s), etc. He's basically a UFA.

Again, I understand this point. I'm speaking ONLY about the draft. We are talking past each other. Back on topic...

[Mr. Flyerfanman]

I just read on ESPN that Duquesne’s grad transfer LG Gill has transferred to Maryland. I thought he had a couple of nice games against Dayton this past season so I hope he does well for the Terps. I also noticed Miles Reynolds, from SLU, is transferring to Pacific to play for Damon Stoudamire. I’m not sure how good Miles really is because there wasn’t much to gauge from that SLU team. That’s all I caught at this point from the transfer market and within the A10.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[DallasFlyer]

Jalen Hudson is transferring to Florida.

[THirt]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer A new transfer that looks interesting to me... http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...38/dylan-smith http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2...eaving_un.html http://www.citizen-times.com/story/s...ille/83968034/

Committed to the wrong Miller brother and the Arizona Wildcats. That was fast.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Flyer68]

If you can find it, in the Miami (Florida) Herald, Michelle Kaufman has written an excellent article entitled "College Basketball - Big Trend Transfers Are Rising" in which she calls it an "epidemic" and Dick Vitale says it is "sickening." Over 700 players from D1 schools are transferring this spring. Very interesting article and a sign of the times.

[BRob2Perryman3]

Originally Posted by Flyer68 If you can find it, in the Miami (Florida) Herald, Michelle Kaufman has written an excellent article entitled "College Basketball - Big Trend Transfers Are Rising" in which she calls it an "epidemic" and Dick Vitale says it is "sickening." Over 700 players from D1 schools are transferring this spring. Very interesting article and a sign of the times.

Sign of the "I want it and i want it now" times. Kids today are given participation trophies, and constantly told how great they are regardless of results. First sign of adversity or not getting what they feel they are entitled too they bolt for another school

[THirt]

Javon Bess to Akron.
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[DGO67]

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 Sign of the "I want it and i want it now" times. Kids today are given participation trophies, and constantly told how great they are regardless of results. First sign of adversity or not getting what they feel they are entitled too they bolt for another school

Very true, BRob! Entitlement, enabling, gratuitous praise, safety nets galore and prosperity...yes prosperity, have all led to the bratification of many a young man and woman.
I see quite a few in my circle of friends who spoil the heck out of their children by providing money they didn't have themselves growing up, by siding with their child with a conflict at school or in the community.
And as you mentioned, when things aren't moving along to their liking, instead of changing themselves, they attempt to change their environment or others. Could it be that these malcontents don't realize that wherever they go they bring themselves?
btw, grand parents should continue to spoil the child...no problem here!

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 Sign of the "I want it and i want it now" times. Kids today are given participation trophies, and constantly told how great they are regardless of results. First sign of adversity or not getting what they feel they are entitled too they bolt for another school

I don't think that's totally fair to put it on the transfers. Remember, they have to have someone who wants them to transfer. So say while AM doesn't like to see a Khari Price transfer out, he loves seeing Jordan Siberts and Charles Cookes transferring in.

So if I am recruited by a school, I'm certainly going to be asking and looking at what my situation is planned on being. And then when someone transfers in that wasn't planned upon, changing the situation I was sold on, I then might want to transfer somewhere else. This is not totally created by the player, the coaches that welcome transfers equally create the situation. And it becomes a vicious cycle as one transfer usually will cause another and so on.

[Bucketnight]

Originally Posted by DGO67 Very true, BRob! Entitlement, enabling, gratuitous praise, safety nets galore and prosperity...yes prosperity, have all led to the bratification of many a young man and woman. I see quite a few in my circle of friends who spoil the heck out of their children by providing money they didn't have themselves growing up, by siding with their child with a conflict at school or in the community. And as you mentioned, when things aren't moving along to their liking, instead of changing themselves, they attempt to change their environment or others. Could it be that these malcontents don't realize that wherever they go they bring themselves? btw, grand parents should continue to spoil the child...no problem here!

I think there's a difference between the points you raise and a kid's desire to play basketball somewhere else. NCAA basketball is a billion dollar a year industry. Coaches can leave at will. Kids' scholarships are year to year. Kids are presented with best case scenarios that don't materialize for various reasons. Sometimes they don't fit the system; sometimes the coach leaves; sometimes the reality just didn't match the coach's pitch; sometimes the kid's talent isn't enough and many other reasons. That's without taking into account AAU, HS Coach or other outside influences on an impressionable young person. Regardless. I don't see how anyone that is on what is essentially a year to year contract should be vilified.

I know I am in the minority here but telling a kid that is 16 or 17 years old in most cases that they must make a decision which we as fans have deemed irrevocable seems a bit draconian. Would we label a kid on an academic scholarship the same way if they determined their studies would be better served if they transferred?

Perhaps the rise in transfers is the system moving more toward balance.

[DGO67]

So the sport that has evolved over the last 125 years is finally "...moving toward more balance" and we owe it all to kids not getting enough playing time?

[superfan99]

Not just the players. Coaches are also becoming a problem.

Spike Albrecht wanted to stay at Michigan even with less playing time and was still forced out. Then they tried to restrict where he transferred until public backlash at restricting a player that doesn't even want to leave.

As a Michigan fan prior to attending UD, this makes me sick. Spike was the ultimate team player and has outperformed all on and off court expectations, yet he still got recruited over.

He was a two time captain of the team and a CO-mvp.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/co...ball/83866182/

[sw368407]

+1 superfan99.

For every kid that has an over-inflated sense of worth and entitlement there are kids that get routinely lied to about playing time and expectations of their role.

I have personally witnessed back door deals with recruits and their "mentors"/AAU coaches to get a kid to commit. If I am a player already on the team and all of a sudden a kid commits because the coach promised his/her mentor a spot on the coaching staff would you really want to stay in that kind of situation?

A big reason players decide to transfer is the expectation of playing time when they were promised something that the coach had no intention of following through on whether it be playing time or even just something as simple as their role going forward. I have absolutely no problem with a player that wants to transfer because a coach was dishonest about how they view that player's impact on the program.

I feel Archie has done a great job of being honest with players about what their roles are and what they need to improve on to get more playing time. I think that is why we are seeing everyone returning among underclassmen this year.

[steve]

Originally Posted by superfan99 Not just the players. Coaches are also becoming a problem. Spike Albrecht wanted to stay at Michigan even with less playing time and was still forced out. Then they tried to restrict where he transferred until public backlash at restricting a player that doesn't even want to leave. As a Michigan fan prior to attending UD, this makes me sick. Spike was the ultimate team player and has outperformed all on and off court expectations, yet he still got recruited over. He was a two time captain of the team and a CO-mvp. http://www.freep.com/story/sports/co...ball/83866182/

Yep....Happens more places than you think. These scholarships are really 1 year deals in the true sense of the word and more so with a kid who hasn't made a real dent in the program in 2-3 years regardless how hard he's worked both on and off the court..

I've read plenty in this thread about just how entitled and spoiled these kids are and, yes, there are plenty of them but if these "man children" weren't put up on a pedestal starting in 7th/8th/9th grades and had their arse kissed by 30-40 year old men then plenty of the ones referred to in this thread would not be quite viewed as they are today...

It's a very slimy business college sports has become and most of the loyalty starts in the linings of their pockets with plenty of coaches out there...

[Gazoo]

Are coaches lying to kids more today than they did back when there were only 40 transfers?

Are kids lying to coaches more today?

Where does it start??

I think the change is the kids lying to the adults. The coaches had to start assuming that kids will not keep their commitments. So they could either become victims or liars (or recruit kids with high GPAs and low basketball skill). So who rises to the top? The biggest liars and scumbags. It's not like these kids remember what Pitino did 5 years ago to some poor recruit, he gets to start over every year with a fresh bag of meat!

[DGO67]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Are coaches lying to kids more today than they did back when there were only 40 transfers? Are kids lying to coaches more today? Where does it start?? I think the change is the kids lying to the adults. The coaches had to start assuming that kids will not keep their commitments. So they could either become victims or liars (or recruit kids with high GPAs and low basketball skill). So who rises to the top? The biggest liars and scumbags. It's not like these kids remember what Pitino did 5 years ago to some poor recruit, he gets to start over every year with a fresh bag of meat!

This recruit and transfer stuff seems more complicated than international relations...and probably more interesting than the latter for many of us!

[Buckleyma]

Originally Posted by Buckleyma Someone mentioned why not go after some euro players as people have had success doing this? How about the Drake 7'0" 249 tranferring out by the name, Dominick Olejniczak. The utube shows him dunking, big time. It shows average 12 points and 9 rebounds in Euro League and 6.5 avg points with 4 rebounds at Drake. He is from Torun Poland. Scored in his last game against Missouri State, 18 points with 8 rebounds. He is a sophomore. But, they also show him on a NBA draft web site. So, i don't know if he declared for the draft? Again, I know nothing about the kid but I like his size and these statistics. UD fans, there is timber available out there in the transfer market. I have every confidence that Archie could coach em' up. That's three guys that I see of interest, Malik Martin, Trey Kalina and Dominick Olejniczak. Again, you guys no more than I do. I am only reading the stuff on the web. Posted via Mobile Device

Per the transfer list, Malik Martin is going to South Florida, Dominick Olejniczak is going to Ole Miss and Trey Kalina is still available.
Posted via Mobile Device

[sw368407]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Are coaches lying to kids more today than they did back when there were only 40 transfers? Are kids lying to coaches more today? Where does it start?? I think the change is the kids lying to the adults. The coaches had to start assuming that kids will not keep their commitments. So they could either become victims or liars (or recruit kids with high GPAs and low basketball skill). So who rises to the top? The biggest liars and scumbags. It's not like these kids remember what Pitino did 5 years ago to some poor recruit, he gets to start over every year with a fresh bag of meat!

I don't think that is the change at all. Big money in college sports is all that has changed. Higher pay for more successful programs and coaches causes both to take the mentality to win at all costs. The kids are just there to produce revenue in most schools' eyes. Doing what is best for the kid sometimes conflicts with what is best for the team and the school. Hard to fault someone that wants to better themselves.

Coaches leave whenever they get a better offer to get paid more money at a more prestigious university, why can't a kid maximize his potential over four-six years? Especially when that university is making millions in revenue off of his hard work.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by Buckleyma Per the transfer list, Malik Martin is going to South Florida, Dominick Olejniczak is going to Ole Miss and Trey Kalina is still available. Posted via Mobile Device

Because someone mentioned Euro bigs, Rokas Ulvydes a 6-11 kid from Lithuania was announced as leaving the Texas Tech program yesterday. He went to Mt. Zion in Baltimore and Dayton has been real active in that area. He committed to LaSalle originally so no idea what happened and why he never ended up there. He only played a couple minutes all year so likely very raw, a project for sure.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by sw368407 I don't think that is the change at all. Big money in college sports is all that has changed. Higher pay for more successful programs and coaches causes both to take the mentality to win at all costs. The kids are just there to produce revenue in most schools' eyes. Doing what is best for the kid sometimes conflicts with what is best for the team and the school. Hard to fault someone that wants to better themselves. Coaches leave whenever they get a better offer to get paid more money at a more prestigious university, why can't a kid maximize his potential over four-six years? Especially when that university is making millions in revenue off of his hard work.

Big money in college sports caused these kids -- for the first time ever -- to consider their pro prospects?? I'm not trying to say there is a single factor here, because there are surely many factors at play, but I'll disagree strongly with you on that one.

Why can't a kid leave? Well, he can. But 300 kids aren't all going to change their NBA careers by transferring this off-season (or whatever the number was).

This is not about each of these 300 kids just needing a slightly different situation to punch their mathematically-impossible NBA ticket, it's about ~200 (?) kids not being raised to realize the world is not about "ME". The vast majority will be no better off at their new school than if they had just committed to building the relationships necessary to be successful right where they were. But, every little Johnny is a superstar, and everyone else has to adjust to the superstar.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Big money in college sports caused these kids -- for the first time ever -- to consider their pro prospects?? I'm not trying to say there is a single factor here, because there are surely many factors at play, but I'll disagree strongly with you on that one. Why can't a kid leave? Well, he can. But 300 kids aren't all going to change their NBA careers by transferring this off-season (or whatever the number was). This is not about each of these 300 kids just needing a slightly different situation to punch their mathematically-impossible NBA ticket, it's about ~200 (?) kids not being raised to realize the world is not about "ME". The vast majority will be no better off at their new school than if they had just committed to building the relationships necessary to be successful right where they were. But, every little Johnny is a superstar, and everyone else has to adjust to the superstar.

Maybe the kid thinks "Hey I know I am never going to make the NBA, so I should transfer to a school where I will be able to play and enjoy my last few years of ever being able to play competitive athletics." Or maybe, just like the close 37.3% of the regular student population that transfers at least once, do not feel the school is a fit. There are MANY MANY reasons these kids transfer, not many because they are entitled or will find the magic solution to get to the NBA.

[sw368407]

It is more complex than just money but here are most of the reasons kids transfer..

I still don't buy the entitlement argument other than rules have changed to favor athletes more because schools started to make big money off of them and realized that they would have to give athletes some more freedom or their could be some kind of unionization or "work stoppage". More freedom in the form of easing of some transfer rules including the Graduate Transfer Rule in 2006. This has happened more since the NBA has forced kids to go to college for a year before being drafted since they no longer have a professional option in America at 18. This rule change alone has created a shift in focus from the NCAA basketball programs being all about school and more about the fact it is now the primary gateway to the pros. TV money, exposure and playing around other NBA talents will get you noticed more easily. T

Back before the big TV contracts conferences were more or less equal, there was little incentive for schools to join mega conferences and led to the decision for some schools to remain independent (Including UD). This resulted in a more even playing field among all teams and all conferences. When big money started creating a divergence between the haves and have-nots you start to see coaching salaries rise, coaches getting poached from smaller conferences with lesser pay to big conferences for a big payday. You see rules being bent, promises being made etc. to attract recruits. Whether you want to admit it or not there is a huge difference in exposure between UD and Ohio State basketball. This is attractive to kids that think they can go pro. ESPN is much more enticing than CBS Sports Net/WHIO/etc.

On one side you have this going on....a kid is destroying the A-10 world or some lesser conference and is capable of going to OSU or Kansas or some higher level after a couple of years at Richmond or Duquesne etc., knows he has options at a higher level and takes it. This doesn't happen to UD much (Staten might be the most recent example) because I think Archie does look for the right kid and fit. Hard to fault a kid that wants to challenge himself and play under a better spotlight. Especially if that kid graduated in 3 years and is looking to go to grad school for his final year of eligibility to maximize his free schooling. We mostly take kids from lower levels that want to improve (Cooke, Cunningham).

Second, there are a bunch of kids that commit to those OSU's of the world out of high school and aren't a good fit, want to actually play and choose to transfer to a lesser school in the hopes of getting better and having a legitimate shot at playing professionally whether it be in the NBA or overseas. (Siebert is a great example and actually had a chance of getting signed after transferring and Khari Price is an example of someone who transferred from UD probably because the writing was on the wall with Schooch coming in and playing well and his knees bothering him).

Third, some kids are just flat lied to. Examples are hard to come by because it is mostly he said she said conflicts. It can easily happen when a coach promises x amount of playing time and the kid doesn't get the time or opportunity for those minutes. Again, I don't think this happens all that often at UD. We have a pretty good track record with our coaches.

The landscape has changed with the graduate transfer rule in 2006, the NBA changing their draft edibility rules while at the same time big money entering the college landscape. All of this in about the same time-frame. I don't really think transfers are a big problem. I think it is great kids have more options to find themselves the right fit whether it to be to play more, maybe get more exposure, or just get a better education. You have to remember a lot of these kids also come from backgrounds where it is basketball or nothing for them so it is hard to blame them for wanting to maximize their four NCAA years to benefit their playing careers.

Sorry for the long-winded post.

**EDIT** I also left out one of the more obvious reasons people might transfer. Some kids transfer to be closer to family or because a family member is sick/dying. Or simply the coach that recruited them to that school either got fired or took another job at a different school. Sorry M21Eagle45 for the additional edit!

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.