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  #1  
Old 11-11-2019, 05:57 PM
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Sissoko to Redshirt

https://daytonflyers.com/news/2019/1...20-season.aspx

Didn't see this posted. Will be another year before we see Moulaye on court.
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:17 PM
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Love it - with our depth this is what I was hoping to see.
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:26 PM
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I assume this could also be interpreted to mean that Jordy T should be back soon. Not seen an update on him lately.
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:33 PM
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I'm disappointed. I liked what I saw from him in the exhibition game. He does not need to bulk up, he's already chiseled. I think he could be used to back up Jordy and let Chase and Obi stay as forwards.

I know the redshirt could be taken back if he is desperately needed, but I was hoping he would get some seasoning in real games this year and emerge as a pleasant surprise. Now I just hope Moulaye is ok with the redshirt and won't look for greener pastures in the future.

Just have to trust AG on this.
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tirebiter View Post
I'm disappointed. I liked what I saw from him in the exhibition game. He does not need to bulk up, he's already chiseled. I think he could be used to back up Jordy and let Chase and Obi stay as forwards.

I know the redshirt could be taken back if he is desperately needed, but I was hoping he would get some seasoning in real games this year and emerge as a pleasant surprise. Now I just hope Moulaye is ok with the redshirt and won't look for greener pastures in the future.

Just have to trust AG on this.
He’d have to sit out a year so I don’t think that’s a probability. I’m sure they sat down with Moulaye and discussed the redshirt possibility.
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by tirebiter View Post
I'm disappointed. I liked what I saw from him in the exhibition game. He does not need to bulk up, he's already chiseled. I think he could be used to back up Jordy and let Chase and Obi stay as forwards.

I know the redshirt could be taken back if he is desperately needed, but I was hoping he would get some seasoning in real games this year and emerge as a pleasant surprise. Now I just hope Moulaye is ok with the redshirt and won't look for greener pastures in the future.

Just have to trust AG on this.
In today's college basketball, I just don't understand the point unless it's all about the player rather than the team. Just seems like most players are going to transfer at some point and to use a scholarship for a redshirt doesn't seem efficient anymore. It's hard enough to predict where you stand a year from now let alone 4. If they're doing it for the player's well being, okay, but to me it's longshot that it will help the team in the distant future.
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:45 PM
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I'm not really sure, but this could be driven by academics as much as anything else. He has only been in the US for a couple of years, and he may have some catching up to do to get a good handle on his grades.

We just have to trust the coaching staff and hope for the best.
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  #8  
Old 11-11-2019, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
In today's college basketball, I just don't understand the point unless it's all about the player rather than the team. Just seems like most players are going to transfer at some point and to use a scholarship for a redshirt doesn't seem efficient anymore. It's hard enough to predict where you stand a year from now let alone 4. If they're doing it for the player's well being, okay, but to me it's longshot that it will help the team in the distant future.
If he plays 2 or 3 minutes a game this year, that isn't really helping the team - and that's not exactly the kind of minutes that will help him develop.

There are three ways this doesn't help the team long term:

1.) He leaves early for the NBA
2.) He transfers
3.) He just never develops

We would all be perfectly happy with option 1. Playing garbage time this year won't prevent option 2. Playing garbage time this year won't solve option 3 either.

On the flip side, if he stays and develops, he will be a key part of this team at a premium position for an extra year of his career.

There is no sure thing either way, but if he's not going to get meaningful minutes this year, then I like the long-term play.
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  #9  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
If he plays 2 or 3 minutes a game this year, that isn't really helping the team - and that's not exactly the kind of minutes that will help him develop.

There are three ways this doesn't help the team long term:

1.) He leaves early for the NBA
2.) He transfers
3.) He just never develops

We would all be perfectly happy with option 1. Playing garbage time this year won't prevent option 2. Playing garbage time this year won't solve option 3 either.

On the flip side, if he stays and develops, he will be a key part of this team at a premium position for an extra year of his career.

There is no sure thing either way, but if he's not going to get meaningful minutes this year, then I like the long-term play.
I disagree. 2 or 3 minutes a game can be very valuable. Real game conditions, no matter how limited is a great learning tool. It's why players improve more from their first year to their 2nd than any other time. They learn what they lack and need to work on. It also helps that he might go into a game, experience things and then bounce things off of Obi to learn how to handle things. I tend to think the main reason to purposely redshirt someone(as opposed to academic and injury reasons) is because a player just isn't that promising and maybe an extra year of practicing without playing will get some production out of him by year 5. But if that's the case, chances are he will move down to a school where he's a bigger fish in a smaller pond.
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
I'm not really sure, but this could be driven by academics as much as anything else. He has only been in the US for a couple of years, and he may have some catching up to do to get a good handle on his grades.

We just have to trust the coaching staff and hope for the best.
AG says the redshirt will "allow him to continue to grow athletically and academically." Maybe the academic part is key. I remember being kind of overwhelmed my freshman year. I can only imagine what it's like if English is not your first language. I hope he keeps a positive attitude and gets a lot of support. I just (selfishly) really want to see him on the court.
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  #11  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I tend to think the main reason to purposely redshirt someone(as opposed to academic and injury reasons) is because a player just isn't that promising and maybe an extra year of practicing without playing will get some production out of him by year 5. But if that's the case, chances are he will move down to a school where he's a bigger fish in a smaller pond.

Good thing the big fella had a decent outing the one time we actually saw him on the court. I'll go ahead and make a prediction that we don't have to wait till year 5 to get some production from him.

The decision to redshirt Sissoko is hardly a surprise; it has been discussed here and elsewhere all summer. By all accounts he is physically ready to play, but AG's comments have always been guarded, suggesting he has a a steep learning curve to be effective at the college level. I bet if he does his part, he will be in position to make positive on-court contributions as early as next year.
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:03 PM
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Does that mean we can’t talk about his muscles until next year?
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:22 PM
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No surprise here
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Old 11-11-2019, 10:00 PM
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I'm going to defer to AG, and to Sissoko's own comments from a week or two ago. Sissoko said he is learning everyday. He has a lot to learn, it is a challenge, etc... It was his learning not just basketball but the english language. I assume the metaphor is "drinking from a firehose".
So that means that AG see's he has the benefit with the current roster to allow Sissoko more time to develop in class and in practice. So what is not to like. He looks like he could be a dominating presence in the future, why rush him along?
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:03 AM
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I knew he was going to red shirt after the red and blue game this year. He was the best player in the game.

Oops my bad. No R&B game this year but if there had been he would have been the best.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:20 AM
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College basketball should do something similar to what they do in football now, where they can play in 4 games and still maintain a redshirt. Maybe make that 8-9 games for basketball since they play twice as many games. That way in mop up duty players like Sissoko can get that real game time experience vs just throwing walk ons a bone. Or if a starter goes down at the end of the season, he can fill in and not burn his RS for just a few games.
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:20 AM
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Good move. Next year we lose a lot of size. We likely lose Obi. RM and Trey ( oh no- will miss his 3’s) are gone. Will need more size. Might not be able to count only on Jordy. Chase does not seem to play that big.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Good move. Next year we lose a lot of size. We likely lose Obi. RM and Trey ( oh no- will miss his 3’s) are gone. Will need more size. Might not be able to count only on Jordy. Chase does not seem to play that big.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that if he played this year, he'd be allowed to play next year also. And the following year and the year following that.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Good move. Next year we lose a lot of size. We likely lose Obi. RM and Trey ( oh no- will miss his 3’s) are gone. Will need more size. Might not be able to count only on Jordy. Chase does not seem to play that big.
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Which is why I side with Smitty 10. The fact that we will really need him next year makes me want him to get even a little game experience this year.
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:47 PM
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Not comparing Obi to Sissoko, but his redshirt year was invaluable as he seemed to do just fine without the in-game experience.

I’m guessing this is a mutual decision between AG and the kid. We don’t know all factors involved, but I feel confident Sissoko’s best interests are being served. And that trumps our interests as fans. ;-)

We don’t redshirt kids unless they’re in agreement. Sean Finn, who virtually wasted his freshman year, is one example of a kid who stood to benefit from a redshirt year.

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Old 11-12-2019, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
Not comparing Obi to Sissoko, but his redshirt year was invaluable as he seemed to do just fine without the in-game experience.

I’m guessing this is a mutual decision between AG and the kid. We don’t know all factors involved, but I feel confident Sissoko’s best interests are being served. And that trumps our interests as fans. ;-)

We don’t redshirt kids unless they’re in agreement. Sean Finn, who virtually wasted his freshman year, is one example of a kid who stood to benefit from a redshirt year.
Obi wasn't voluntarily redshirted. And, we don't know how not playing effected him. Yes, he was great, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been greater.

And, in our history, very few Obi's have come along.

Sean Finn was around when you could count more on a guy staying 5 years with the program. Times are different today.

As far as Sissoko's best interests, I agree. I don't believe the reason for his redshirting is to benefit the program in 2023-2024. But that doesn't mean I don't believe there was a good reason for it. Just not sure what that reason is. Most likely academics playing the bigger role.
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Old 11-12-2019, 02:19 PM
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Two to three minutes a game may or may not help a kid. The reality may be Sissoko will not get that many minutes. Could he have matched up with ISU? No way. If a big kid cannot move and have the skills to matchup, he better be dominant on offense, rebounding and shot blocking. This team has enough defensive problems without a big freshman getting schooled by a shorter quicker kid. In Grant I trust. The kid is not ready, or needed yet.

Maybe when we see Jordy play, we will have another reason.
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:50 PM
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I second the comments above by Jack72 and Smitty10. You two have put your finger on the juxtaposition.

I concur with Jack72 when you mention that this team does not have the time to watch a big freshman who can’t move his feet on defense and is getting embarrassed and schooled by opponents.

I concur with Smitty10 when you mention that academics must be an issue, in this instance. Sissoko sure seemed big and strong in the exhibition and ready to play in division 1. He even showed a little move offensively.

I was hopeful that Sissoko would help us against Georgia, Colorado and St. Mary’s and if we advance perhaps even Michigan State.

There must be some kind of NCAA announcement date restriction, here? Otherwise, why wouldn’t Grant wait until late December to red shirt this freshman. Then he would have been available for these games?
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:51 PM
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Those that think 2 to 3 minutes a game will have any positive impact compared to the many many hours each week he is in practice working against the players are gravely mistaken. If he is only going to get <5 minutes a game - best for him to be Redshirted - learn the system and improve by practicing against Jordy and the other starters - then next year come in strong and contribute for 4 full years.
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
There must be some kind of NCAA announcement date restriction, here? Otherwise, why wouldn’t Grant wait until late December to red shirt this freshman. Then he would have been available for these games?
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I believe he is always available for any game if they want to change their mind and use him in a game.
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
There must be some kind of NCAA announcement date restriction, here? Otherwise, why wouldn’t Grant wait until late December to red shirt this freshman. Then he would have been available for these games? Posted via Mobile Device

If he had played one minute against Indiana State he could not be redshirted. Not sure you even need to make an announcement. Just don't play him.

And he could still play at any time if AG determined he needed him. Then the redshirt would be gone.

Last edited by longtimefan; 11-12-2019 at 04:00 PM..
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Old 11-12-2019, 04:13 PM
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I can't imagine it will take long for basketball to adopt the football model of redshirting. In football, you can play in up to 4 games and still take a redshirt. That would be roughly 9 basketball games that you could play in and still redshirt. Even if they trimmed that back to 7, it would be a win/win for the players and teams. Allow a kid to play in a handful of blowouts to gain experience and retain a redshirt if desired.
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Old 11-12-2019, 04:17 PM
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maybe, part of this was to give him 1 year of practice, and academics... he has not been in the US for that long...

but also, does this kind of smooth out the graduation classes, level it out a bit possibly...
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Old 11-12-2019, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
maybe, part of this was to give him 1 year of practice, and academics... he has not been in the US for that long...

but also, does this kind of smooth out the graduation classes, level it out a bit possibly...
He is a 1 man class now moving to a 4-5 man class. Makes class balance worse.
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Old 11-12-2019, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post

And he could still play at any time if AG determined he needed him. Then the redshirt would be gone.
Which was what happened last year with Frankie Policelli.
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Old 11-12-2019, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckleyma View Post
There must be some kind of NCAA announcement date restriction, here? Otherwise, why wouldn’t Grant wait until late December to red shirt this freshman. Then he would have been available for these games?
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I believe the announcement is to keep negative speculation from happening. If an injury or foul trouble should take our other big men out of the game or if it's a blowout and all the walk-ons get in but Sissoko doesn't, the speculation that he's in the dog house would get pretty loud and wouldn't be fair to this kid.
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Old 11-12-2019, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I believe the announcement is to keep negative speculation from happening. If an injury or foul trouble should take our other big men out of the game or if it's a blowout and all the walk-ons get in but Sissoko doesn't, the speculation that he's in the dog house would get pretty loud and wouldn't be fair to this kid.
I agree. This is all about keeping a bunch of 30-75 year old men from spinning up conspiracy theories on why MS is not playing. Even with the announcement I see a bunch of conjecture.

Agree or disagree on whether it is the right move but all should be in agreement that, at this time, AG and MS think it is best for him and the program.
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:11 PM
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This tells me that Jordy is likely healthy soon and ready to chew bubble gum and kick ass.
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that if he played this year, he'd be allowed to play next year also. And the following year and the year following that.
But not the year after that - and now he can. We will get a lot more value from him in his 5th year than <5 minutes per game this year.
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Old 11-12-2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that if he played this year, he'd be allowed to play next year also. And the following year and the year following that.
He shoots, he scores!
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Old 11-12-2019, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
He is a 1 man class now moving to a 4-5 man class. Makes class balance worse.
This is 2019. With the current the grass is always greener on the other side transfer environment, I worry very little about such things. At one point last years senior class would have had 4 guys in it. Mikesell had a medical redshirt and will graduate this year, the other three were long gone before their senior season.
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Old 11-12-2019, 08:26 PM
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Decisions like this are always subject to reconsideration too as circumstances dictate. See Frankie Policelli.

UD's depth is in a much better place now compared to then, but this decision is not the kind that can't be undone. Not that I expect it to. If it is, something went wrong.
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
This is 2019. With the current the grass is always greener on the other side transfer environment, I worry very little about such things. At one point last years senior class would have had 4 guys in it. Mikesell had a medical redshirt and will graduate this year, the other three were long gone before their senior season.
I worry very little about that as well, but the point is still valid. Moving him hurts class balance.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I worry very little about that as well, but the point is still valid. Moving him hurts class balance.
I agree. And even with all the "what ifs" and AG having his finger on the pulse of each player's status, he still has to recruit to the current class balance.
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Old 11-13-2019, 10:05 AM
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Class balance? With the rate of transfers these days, there is little need to worry about class balance; just get the best kids you can each year with your number of openings, perhaps leave 1 spot open for the next big transfer, wash/repeat. I'd rather have the 10-13 most talented players no matter grade than anything else.
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Old 11-13-2019, 10:12 AM
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Talking

Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Class balance? With the rate of transfers these days, there is little need to worry about class balance; just get the best kids you can each year with your number of openings, perhaps leave 1 spot open for the next big transfer, wash/repeat. I'd rather have the 10-13 most talented players no matter grade than anything else.
Yep! Easy Peasy. Just like OOC scheduling!
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Old 11-13-2019, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
I’m guessing this is a mutual decision between AG and the kid. We don’t know all factors involved, but I feel confident Sissoko’s best interests are being served. And that trumps our interests as fans. ;-)
How do we know Sissoko didn't approach AG and say "coach, I'm lost, I'm in over my head, I need help." Sure players always want to play but he might have had an "oh st**" moment.

But, announcing it takes the pressure off the kid when he sees fans at Chipotle and they speak to him with pity in hushed tones. "Hey man, what's going on, why can't you get in the game" becomes "hey man I can't wait until next year, you're gonna kill it!"

Also, to the people who say this doesn't help the team, you might also consider a broader view. AG can recruit on this. That helps the team. When he tells mom that grades are more important than wins, he can point to examples like this and say "look the reality is that kids transfer left and right these days, but Sissoko wasn't ready and we agreed his personal best interests were served by redshirting." Self serving? Probably. But it's good to have cards to play when recruiting.
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Old 11-13-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
How do we know Sissoko didn't approach AG and say "coach, I'm lost, I'm in over my head, I need help." Sure players always want to play but he might have had an "oh st**" moment.

But, announcing it takes the pressure off the kid when he sees fans at Chipotle and they speak to him with pity in hushed tones. "Hey man, what's going on, why can't you get in the game" becomes "hey man I can't wait until next year, you're gonna kill it!"

Also, to the people who say this doesn't help the team, you might also consider a broader view. AG can recruit on this. That helps the team. When he tells mom that grades are more important than wins, he can point to examples like this and say "look the reality is that kids transfer left and right these days, but Sissoko wasn't ready and we agreed his personal best interests were served by redshirting." Self serving? Probably. But it's good to have cards to play when recruiting.
Thus, the reason it can be a mutual decision. Nobody knows anything here for sure..
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Old 11-13-2019, 04:41 PM
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This makes me think that there's a strong possibility one of the 3 freshman redshirts next year
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Old 11-13-2019, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Good move. Next year we lose a lot of size. We likely lose Obi. RM and Trey ( oh no- will miss his 3’s) are gone. Will need more size. Might not be able to count only on Jordy. Chase does not seem to play that big.
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But, M-dog, we will still have you to track this closely. Then there's that.
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Old 11-13-2019, 06:46 PM
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Unhappy

Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
How do we know Sissoko didn't approach AG and say "coach, I'm lost, I'm in over my head, I need help." Sure players always want to play but he might have had an "oh st**" moment.

But, announcing it takes the pressure off the kid when he sees fans at Chipotle and they speak to him with pity in hushed tones. "Hey man, what's going on, why can't you get in the game" becomes "hey man I can't wait until next year, you're gonna kill it!"

Also, to the people who say this doesn't help the team, you might also consider a broader view. AG can recruit on this. That helps the team. When he tells mom that grades are more important than wins, he can point to examples like this and say "look the reality is that kids transfer left and right these days, but Sissoko wasn't ready and we agreed his personal best interests were served by redshirting." Self serving? Probably. But it's good to have cards to play when recruiting.
From everything I've seen from CAG, I'm sure he handled this with class. We all act like redshirting is a terrible thing. It's not, it can help develop skill, confidence, connectivity between teammates, along with personal and collegiate growth. It can help kids get multiple degrees, or adjust to make sure that they succeed at a more comfortable pace and graduate in five years.

Redshirting is a good thing, it benefits Moulaye and it benefits the program as long as he and CAG are aligned.

I think I'd prefer a redshirt year if I was an athlete these days. One more year to let my body develop, one more year of fantastic coaching and most importantly one more year of being the big man on Campus with the ladies (can't imagine Moulaye hates that)
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Old 11-13-2019, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by EliteEight View Post
From everything I've seen from CAG, I'm sure he handled this with class. We all act like redshirting is a terrible thing. It's not, it can help develop skill, confidence, connectivity between teammates, along with personal and collegiate growth. It can help kids get multiple degrees, or adjust to make sure that they succeed at a more comfortable pace and graduate in five years.

Redshirting is a good thing, it benefits Moulaye and it benefits the program as long as he and CAG are aligned.

I think I'd prefer a redshirt year if I was an athlete these days. One more year to let my body develop, one more year of fantastic coaching and most importantly one more year of being the big man on Campus with the ladies (can't imagine Moulaye hates that)
Wasn't college some of the best times of your life? (raises hand here)

What better way to take advantage of that...be a part of a class act basketball program with all the things a player could want...and become a better player in the end?
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
I worry very little about that as well, but the point is still valid. Moving him hurts class balance.
I thought that too originally...

But...with Obi probably not being around for 4...it opens the doors for him after the redshirt...which confirms my theory of the redshirt being more about the player versus the kid. The numbers game doesn't benefit the class by class numbers on the surface, but it benefits the player.

I think with the almost guaranteed turnover, those class numbers rarely graduate all the signees, which means a more "developed" player eventually rises to the top.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:02 AM
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He could leave UD after 5 years with 4 years playing and a masters degree free of charge. Doesn't sound like that bad of a deal to me.
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MNFats (11-14-2019)
  #50  
Old 11-14-2019, 10:55 AM
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Hasn't it already been mentioned one of the members of the 2020 class plans to redshirt?
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:01 AM
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I think people are assuming Koby Brea red shirts because his original plan was to go to one of the "academies" next year and his 17th birthday was just this month.
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
Hasn't it already been mentioned one of the members of the 2020 class plans to redshirt?
It was discussed as a possibility. Doesn't mean it will happen.
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  #53  
Old 11-14-2019, 02:11 PM
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The decision on Brea or any player won't be made until Fall practice, unless it is an issue other than basketball ability. Don't forget not every player will redshirt because he is not ready. Some may be encouraged to transfer, or even refuse to redshirt.
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  #54  
Old 11-14-2019, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
I think people are assuming Koby Brea red shirts because his original plan was to go to one of the "academies" next year and his 17th birthday was just this month.
I was thinking Koby but it seems like with 3 guys at the guard/wing position even in positionless basketball you'd want to one redshirt one of them
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  #55  
Old 11-14-2019, 07:54 PM
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Sissoko has some big time potential and the body of an amazing athlete. He has a lot of basketball skill work to do.

Most of his points and rebounds came a the end of the exhibition game when the starters were out for both teams. He will be good, but a year working on his game could do him some good.
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  #56  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:08 PM
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Looking at the surface, I immediately see this move as adding another imbalance to an already grossly lopsided recruiting class. But, this day in age that doesn't matter much. I'd guess about half of next year's kids wind up transferring out anyways, just because of the way the game has changed.

On the other side, we actually have a bench with some bigs! Us... UD! So, keeping him around to learn from Obi and Jordy might not be a bad thing since it seems to be very difficult for our program to get really good true centers.

Anyways, it is what it is. I thought he looked pretty good in the exhibition and was looking forward to seeing him on the floor, but I don't sit through practices or look at his grades either. Guess I'll wait until next year when he's even bigger and stronger!
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