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03-09-2021, 09:26 AM
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Major General
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State of the Atlantic 10 Conference
The conference appears to be falling apart. GW has lost it's 4 best players to transfer. The three teams Dayton lost to are in shambles as well. The bottom of the conference pretty much assures greater difficulty for A-10 teams to achieve the vital statistical profile necessary to qualify for next year's NCAA tournament. This has to be a significant concern for the leaders of the Dayton men's basketball program. It may be time for UD Flyers to seek greener pastures.
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03-09-2021, 09:47 AM
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Brigadier General
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse
The conference appears to be falling apart. GW has lost it's 4 best players to transfer. The three teams Dayton lost to are in shambles as well. The bottom of the conference pretty much assures greater difficulty for A-10 teams to achieve the vital statistical profile necessary to qualify for next year's NCAA tournament. This has to be a significant concern for the leaders of the Dayton men's basketball program. It may be time for UD Flyers to seek greener pastures.
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This is par for the course for A10 institutions. Pretty much every year. The bottom of the league had a horrendous year, and then stole some lunch money from the top half of the league, with the Flyers seemingly getting punked the most.
I don't view the situation as dire and desperate as you suggest. This is something the UD Administration keeps its eye on EVERY year. And it's not time to panic or be rash while evaluating such a strange year.
The A10 has 3 teams in contention for at-large berths. We typically have as many as 4/5. What we lack this year is one or two locks, bona-fide single digit seeds.
But the top of the league appears to be strong and should be just as good next year. VCU, St. Bona, SLU, Dayton, UMass, probably even Davidson. We'll see how programs like Richmond and Rhody respond.
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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03-09-2021, 11:57 AM
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Brigadier General
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Welcome to the off season!
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03-09-2021, 12:44 PM
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When you are worrying about GW, Fordham and the like you are worrying over nothing. Every conference has bottom feeders, they are ours. The league is just fine. We will struggle to make the double byes next year. That doesn't mean we aren't good. It just means the league is strong.
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03-09-2021, 12:50 PM
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Captain
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Seek another conference... maybe, but where would we go? We don't play D1 football and the Big East is always hating on us (lament)
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03-09-2021, 01:31 PM
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the A-10 would be a lot better without the bottom 2 teams
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03-09-2021, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass
the A-10 would be a lot better without the bottom 2 teams
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So would our record.
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Canonball (03-09-2021), Chris R (03-09-2021), cj (03-09-2021), Clear Prop (03-10-2021), CT Flyer (03-09-2021), Donniex3Era (03-10-2021), Gazoo (03-15-2021), Glen Clark (03-09-2021), hawkoooo (03-09-2021), IAFlyer (03-15-2021), John C. (03-09-2021), runnerup (03-09-2021), st marys (03-10-2021) |
03-09-2021, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
So would our record.
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Unfortunately true and quite painful. Take your medicine Flyers!
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03-09-2021, 05:06 PM
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Originally Posted by John C.
When you are worrying about GW, Fordham and the like you are worrying over nothing. Every conference has bottom feeders, they are ours. The league is just fine. We will struggle to make the double byes next year. That doesn't mean we aren't good. It just means the league is strong.
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I guess we didn’t really lose to them since we don’t need to worry about them?
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03-09-2021, 06:58 PM
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TX Flyer you seem to be missing my point. Let's worry about competing with the top teams. Yes, I know we lost to teams that shouldn't even be on the court with us, but this entire year has been a total cluster.
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03-09-2021, 08:19 PM
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Brigadier General
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Originally Posted by John C.
TX Flyer you seem to be missing my point. Let's worry about competing with the top teams. Yes, I know we lost to teams that shouldn't even be on the court with us, but this entire year has been a total cluster.
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Exactly and in this case it isn’t the bottom feeders presence hurting us it’s our self destructive losses to those teams that cost this team. Had they beaten the bottom 3 the resume would have been good enough to be in the hunt. Like almost every season, their presence in the league only hurts us if we don’t take care of what we can control.
Dominate this league and you are perennial participants in the big dance - period. If and when the dominance occurs and we don’t get in, then we can discuss this league as being deadweight to us and not before.
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03-09-2021, 08:52 PM
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Lieutenant General
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We are so smug. The Gonzaga of the East was a 7th place team and we last won the automatic qualifier when? And it is highly unlikely we will be materially improved next year. And then we want to move to a better conference. Where we’d finish higher? Can’t see the logic there.
As to the bottom feeders, ( save Fordham) we are 13-9 with GW since ‘04. LaSalle- we are 6-4 over our last 10 and 15- 7 since ‘04. St. Joes 11-12 since ‘04.
There is little evidence of gross uncompetitiveness.
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03-09-2021, 09:35 PM
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Lieutenant General
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I would suggest that instead of wishing to be like Gonzaga, we might first try to be like VCU, they contend every year. We have done better lately, present year excepted, but they have been at or near the top for a while now.
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03-09-2021, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62
I would suggest that instead of wishing to be like Gonzaga, we might first try to be like VCU, they contend every year. We have done better lately, present year excepted, but they have been at or near the top for a while now.
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Uh, not quite every year for VCU. They finished 8-10 a year ago, good for ninth place. But point taken.
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03-09-2021, 11:04 PM
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Originally Posted by John C.
TX Flyer you seem to be missing my point. Let's worry about competing with the top teams. Yes, I know we lost to teams that shouldn't even be on the court with us, but this entire year has been a total cluster.
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So beat the top teams but not worry about beating the bottom teams?
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03-10-2021, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer
Had they beaten the bottom 3 the resume would have been good enough to be in the hunt.
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Had we beaten Fordham, LaSuck, and SJU, per Torvik, we'd be in the field.
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03-10-2021, 05:41 AM
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When we are in the top 2 of the A10 every season and we aren't making NCAA tournaments, then I will care.
Or...we can have the same teams that are finishing in the top 6 of the A10 and go be a bottom feeder of a P5 conference.
Dayton is not doing Dayton any favors by not being the cream of the crop every single year. Personally, I would like a change of scenery too. But what is the guaranteed return when we haven't set out to do what X did to get where they are at?
Conference realignment is in, for the most part, every individual fans own selfish interests of having bigger named schools, potential rivalries that aren't SLU and VCU (which I don't even think VCU considers us one versus Richmond), etc. Putting UD in a better position for post season success? Well, the jury is out on that one as we haven't consistently dominated the A10 by any means, let alone win conference tournaments.
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03-14-2021, 07:22 PM
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Brigadier General
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I keep saying the Big East affiliation isn’t a golden ticket to success. Might be great for the fans to see better teams but no guarantees it helps earn more trips to NCAA - far from it. For the life of me I can’t understand how people expect better results in a harder conference when we can’t dominate or have more than moderate success in a league they consider beneath us.
Xavier hasn't been to the NCAA Tournament since the 2017-18 season when the Musketeers were a No. 1 seed in Chris Mack's final season. From 2001-2018, Xavier only missed two NCAA Tournaments (2005, 2013).
16 for 18 with most of those years in the A10. This is in essence 3 years in a row they’ve missed as they weren’t making it in last year either..
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Last edited by Marysville Flyer; 03-14-2021 at 07:25 PM..
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03-14-2021, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer
I keep saying the Big East affiliation isn’t a golden ticket to success. Might be great for the fans to see better teams but no guarantees it helps earn more trips to NCAA - far from it. For the life of me I can’t understand how people expect better results in a harder conference when we can’t dominate or have more than moderate success in a league they consider beneath us.
Xavier hasn't been to the NCAA Tournament since the 2017-18 season when the Musketeers were a No. 1 seed in Chris Mack's final season. From 2001-2018, Xavier only missed two NCAA Tournaments (2005, 2013).
16 for 18 with most of those years in the A10. This is in essence 3 years in a row they’ve missed as they weren’t making it in last year either..
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Torvik had them in last year, 2nd to last team in.
https://barttorvik.com/teamcast.php?...vier&year=2020
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03-14-2021, 08:41 PM
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That was an outlier.
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03-14-2021, 10:04 PM
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Commander in Chief
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer
I keep saying the Big East affiliation isn’t a golden ticket to success. Might be great for the fans to see better teams but no guarantees it helps earn more trips to NCAA - far from it. For the life of me I can’t understand how people expect better results in a harder conference when we can’t dominate or have more than moderate success in a league they consider beneath us.
Xavier hasn't been to the NCAA Tournament since the 2017-18 season when the Musketeers were a No. 1 seed in Chris Mack's final season. From 2001-2018, Xavier only missed two NCAA Tournaments (2005, 2013).
16 for 18 with most of those years in the A10. This is in essence 3 years in a row they’ve missed as they weren’t making it in last year either..
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I had a hunch that it would turn out that way. The Big East is a good league, but X had a lot of clout at the top of the A10. They were never an "also-ran" in the league. They are not going to be in the NCAA Tournament as consistently in the Big East.
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03-14-2021, 10:12 PM
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We have two teams in the NCAA and four in the NIT, and I think covid really screwed with St Louis and Richmond.
Last edited by longtimefan; 03-14-2021 at 11:07 PM..
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03-14-2021, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer
I keep saying the Big East affiliation isn’t a golden ticket to success. Might be great for the fans to see better teams but no guarantees it helps earn more trips to NCAA - far from it. For the life of me I can’t understand how people expect better results in a harder conference when we can’t dominate or have more than moderate success in a league they consider beneath us.
Xavier hasn't been to the NCAA Tournament since the 2017-18 season when the Musketeers were a No. 1 seed in Chris Mack's final season. From 2001-2018, Xavier only missed two NCAA Tournaments (2005, 2013).
16 for 18 with most of those years in the A10. This is in essence 3 years in a row they’ve missed as they weren’t making it in last year either..
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Big East pros: better recruiting, better scheduling opportunities, better nccat seed opportunities, more tv money, more shared ncaat money, higher profile league
BE cons: maybe harder to get a nccat bid, more losses in league games.
I don't know. There is only one Gonzaga, hard to duplicate that, need a hot coach that will stay put, which is next to impossible it seems.
We are better off in the BE, better chance of keeping your coach.
What are the chances we duplicate last year? We were maxing out at a 7 seed before last year.
Last edited by ud2; 03-14-2021 at 10:17 PM..
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03-14-2021, 10:44 PM
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Commander in Chief
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Originally Posted by ud2
Big East pros: better recruiting, better scheduling opportunities, better nccat seed opportunities, more tv money, more shared ncaat money, higher profile league
BE cons: maybe harder to get a nccat bid, more losses in league games.
I don't know. There is only one Gonzaga, hard to duplicate that, need a hot coach that will stay put, which is next to impossible it seems.
We are better off in the BE, better chance of keeping your coach.
What are the chances we duplicate last year? We were maxing out at a 7 seed before last year.
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I always said wait 5 years and see how the Big East settles. A bunch of teams that dominated their conferences all went into it at the same time. They all were getting in the NCAA Tournament regularly. There were just not enough wins in the league to support that collective success. Some of them start losing, causing the programs to implode by missing the tournament and firing coaches and being less attractive to recruits. The end result, as a whole will still be a good league, but there are going to be programs that very recently were powerhouses that get forced into decline.
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03-14-2021, 11:29 PM
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Originally Posted by ud2
Big East pros: better recruiting, better scheduling opportunities, better nccat seed opportunities, more tv money, more shared ncaat money, higher profile league
BE cons: maybe harder to get a nccat bid, more losses in league games.
I don't know. There is only one Gonzaga, hard to duplicate that, need a hot coach that will stay put, which is next to impossible it seems.
We are better off in the BE, better chance of keeping your coach.
What are the chances we duplicate last year? We were maxing out at a 7 seed before last year.
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A lot of great points being made for staying in the A-10, and I have said it's a fine place for us for now.
But I agree that the BE is a better place for us to be. All it takes is SLU and VCU departing and we're suddenly low major. There is no more room for losing good teams in the A10, and no one to replace them.
The A-10T has always been a crap shoot. Even our hated neighbors to the south won the tournament only 4 times in their 18 years (I get it- not terrible), and in the last 10 years 7 (I give UD the win last year for chuckles) different universities have won, with no one winning more than twice. So history says we're likely not going to start racking up lots of A10T crowns.
I think we can expect our fair share of NCAAT at-large bids in either league. But the BE schools are our peer institutions, from academic ranking, endowment, private, size, geography and more.
I am crazy enough to buy into forming our own league, and stealing the best of the A10 with a few more adds. I know there are several obstacles to that- but it would just feel so good saying good-bye to those A10 schools who don't give a sh*t about MBB.
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03-14-2021, 11:40 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by ud2
Big East pros: better recruiting, better scheduling opportunities, better nccat seed opportunities, more tv money, more shared ncaat money, higher profile league
BE cons: maybe harder to get a nccat bid, more losses in league games.
I don't know. There is only one Gonzaga, hard to duplicate that, need a hot coach that will stay put, which is next to impossible it seems.
We are better off in the BE, better chance of keeping your coach.
What are the chances we duplicate last year? We were maxing out at a 7 seed before last year.
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If we make the NCAA tournament like Xavier did when they were in the A10, there’s more money than we would get in the Big East, even if we make it to the tourney just as often. The A10 lets participating teams keep 75% of their earnings. The BE does not.
I think the A10 is a perfect league for us at this time. We just need to be a top 3 team, and we will be in the tournament most years. I would only worry if VCU, SLU or Richmond decide to leave. The dominos can fall fast if that happens.
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03-15-2021, 12:30 AM
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If the Big East comes calling - Neil pulls out the butter knife - removes his left Testicle and hands it over to Val - and he is smiling the whole time. Any debate on is the BE better for us then the A-10 is ridiculous - of course it is.
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03-15-2021, 07:47 AM
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Major
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There is Zero debate... The Big East is the goal.
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03-15-2021, 08:56 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by flybye
There is Zero debate... The Big East is the goal.
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There is zero debate. The Big East is not asking UD to join.
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03-15-2021, 09:10 AM
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Lieutenant General
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Totally agree. That ship has sailed. I cannot see them expanding.
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03-15-2021, 09:41 AM
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Belmont missed the NIT field with a 26-4 record. I’m sure they would love to join the A10. I view them like Davidson a few years ago...playing at a high level in a lower conference.
How much stronger would the A10 be if they kicked out Fordham and added Belmont? I know it would never happen but it would make a huge difference in terms of league perception.
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03-15-2021, 09:53 AM
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Brigadier General
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The American is the only light at the end of the tunnel and with UConn's departure it is less attractive these days. For a while it seemed likely that they would add more "basketball-only" schools like Wichita St. but those rumors seem to have died down dramatically.
The ideal scenario outside of an BE/AAC invite is to cut the fat. We all know that is never going to happen. Perhaps we could go back to 16 with additions like Belmont and Murray State but those schools were passed over for Davidson (worked out) and GMU (hasn't worked out).
The state of the A10 is that it is on the brink of irrelevance at all times. There are not enough good possible additions to fortify or replace an exodus. If the BE comes calling for SLU and/or the AAC comes for UD, SLU, Richmond, VCU, etc. a once great multi-bid league will likely be no more. It will go the way of the MVC.
You have to be proactive. The MW was not proactive. The MVC was not proactive. The A10 is more proactive than those two, but not enough. Tweak scheduling, add winning programs, cut losers with shat facilities. That is what you must do but we won't.
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03-15-2021, 09:54 AM
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"There is Zero debate... The Big East is the goal."
"There is zero debate. The Big East is not asking UD to join."
LMFAO!
How many times has this been debated to the same conclusion?
More or less times than this forum debating playing Wright State?
It's funny. Almost everyone on this board will be elated if by some miracle we get in the BE and on the other hand almost everyone here does not want to ever see Wright State on our schedule. (Put me in both these camps)
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03-15-2021, 10:33 AM
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Major
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The ship has not sailed... we will be in the BIG East. Money talks. Covid had changed the landscape. The networks and conferences all need an infusion of cash. If you don think so that’s ok. Your probably the same group that would have said Butler would never jump from the Horizon to A 10 to Big East....all things change .
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03-15-2021, 11:15 AM
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General
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Originally Posted by O Doyle Rules
"There is Zero debate... The Big East is the goal."
"There is zero debate. The Big East is not asking UD to join."
LMFAO!
How many times has this been debated to the same conclusion?
More or less times than this forum debating playing Wright State?
It's funny. Almost everyone on this board will be elated if by some miracle we get in the BE and on the other hand almost everyone here does not want to ever see Wright State on our schedule. (Put me in both these camps)
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I seriously checked the date of the first post to see if someone had pulled this old thread up from several years ago.
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03-15-2021, 11:26 AM
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Major
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Persistence...never give up on the goal...put your program in position when the chance comes. Neil doing it everyday. As he says we are.ALWAYS looking to better the program.
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03-15-2021, 11:27 AM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by flybye
The ship has not sailed... we will be in the BIG East. Money talks. Covid had changed the landscape. The networks and conferences all need an infusion of cash. If you don think so that’s ok. Your probably the same group that would have said Butler would never jump from the Horizon to A 10 to Big East....all things change .
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More and more college bball will end up on ESPN +. Just like the NHL. Not the same $s.
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03-15-2021, 11:29 AM
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General
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Originally Posted by maddog07
We are so smug. The Gonzaga of the East was a 7th place team and we last won the automatic qualifier when? And it is highly unlikely we will be materially improved next year. And then we want to move to a better conference. Where we’d finish higher? Can’t see the logic there.
As to the bottom feeders, ( save Fordham) we are 13-9 with GW since ‘04. LaSalle- we are 6-4 over our last 10 and 15- 7 since ‘04. St. Joes 11-12 since ‘04.
There is little evidence of gross uncompetitiveness.
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Duke is 7-6 vs Miami U over the last 10 years in the conference season. Miami's cumulative conference record over these 10 years is 91-90. Winning in conference is hard.
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03-15-2021, 11:36 AM
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My sense is the BE doesn't want us- not clear why though many theories (non Jesuit, Eggsavier would rather swallow razorblades than support us, etc). That said their TV deal renewal may demand additional content forcing them to go to perhaps even 14 teams (my speculation only).
Last note then I drop this.... I predict SLU is next invite in.
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03-15-2021, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd
I always said wait 5 years and see how the Big East settles. A bunch of teams that dominated their conferences all went into it at the same time. They all were getting in the NCAA Tournament regularly. There were just not enough wins in the league to support that collective success. Some of them start losing, causing the programs to implode by missing the tournament and firing coaches and being less attractive to recruits. The end result, as a whole will still be a good league, but there are going to be programs that very recently were powerhouses that get forced into decline.
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You make good points.
I still have not really made up my mind yet, the dust is still settling IMO. It might take a couple of coaching transitions among the BE schools, such as a coach leaving and the replacement gets fired, or the existing coach gets fired, etc., before this issue really gets decided.
Other than the $ from TV and shared ncaat $, we may in fact be better off staying put in the A10.
And I am not sure if recruiting is actually better in the BE. We just landed the #14? recruiting class.
And we just got a #1 seed last year, the seeding opportunities might not be better in the BE either.
I am still waffling on this issue.
Last edited by ud2; 03-15-2021 at 12:58 PM..
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03-15-2021, 01:27 PM
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Clarify
Originally Posted by ud2
You make good points.
I still have not really made up my mind yet, the dust is still settling IMO. It might take a couple of coaching transitions among the BE schools, such as a coach leaving and the replacement gets fired, or the existing coach gets fired, etc., before this issue really gets decided.
Other than the $ from TV and shared ncaat $, we may in fact be better off staying put in the A10.
And I am not sure if recruiting is actually better in the BE. We just landed the #14? recruiting class.
And we just got a #1 seed last year, the seeding opportunities might not be better in the BE either.
I am still waffling on this issue.
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Are you saying that the class coming in next year is ranked 14th by credible sources? Just asking. I missed that.
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03-15-2021, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
Are you saying that the class coming in next year is ranked 14th by credible sources? Just asking. I missed that.
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Yes. They are. By credible sources. And there's a chance it leaps into the Top 10 if TyTy were to take the offer just extended.
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03-15-2021, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
Are you saying that the class coming in next year is ranked 14th by credible sources? Just asking. I missed that.
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Yes, credible sources. At least 5 sites had the UD 2021 recruiting class ranked #25 or better. The #14? ranking was the best ranking.
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03-15-2021, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Yes, credible sources. At least 5 sites had the UD 2021 recruiting class ranked #25 or better. The #14? ranking was the best ranking.
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It's tricky this season. Is Mustapha considered part of that recruiting class? If not, then when you add him, our ranking has to go up.
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03-15-2021, 01:50 PM
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Someone had our class ranked #12 with Amzil (can't remember who). Without him the one I saw was #19.
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03-15-2021, 01:50 PM
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24/7 has us at #18 and Mustapha is not considered 2021 (at least on that site). Were he a part of 2021 this class may already be top 10. If we really do land TyTy it should be a top 10 class. Crazy to think about.
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03-15-2021, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan
Someone had our class ranked #12 with Amzil (can't remember who). Without him the one I saw was #19.
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Rivals has UD at 12 with Amzil as part of the class:
https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2...ams/basketball
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03-15-2021, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by O Doyle Rules
"There is Zero debate... The Big East is the goal."
"There is zero debate. The Big East is not asking UD to join."
LMFAO!
How many times has this been debated to the same conclusion?
More or less times than this forum debating playing Wright State?
It's funny. Almost everyone on this board will be elated if by some miracle we get in the BE and on the other hand almost everyone here does not want to ever see Wright State on our schedule. (Put me in both these camps)
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This debate has been put on hold due to other breaking news.
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03-15-2021, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerBob
My sense is the BE doesn't want us- not clear why though many theories (non Jesuit, Eggsavier would rather swallow razorblades than support us, etc). That said their TV deal renewal may demand additional content forcing them to go to perhaps even 14 teams (my speculation only).
Last note then I drop this.... I predict SLU is next invite in.
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The BE TV contract did just get a boost when they added UConn, which Fox lobbied for, so it was no surprise UConn was their next invitee. There is still room for more TV contract money if they expand to 12 teams and beyond.
I know from a good source that Xavier definitely got veto power over us (probably with support of the other Jesuits) at the initial BE expansion, which included X. But that same source told me X was told that it was a one time veto and if Dayton were in the cards in the future they would not have any say except for their one vote.
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03-15-2021, 03:59 PM
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Why?
Originally Posted by CT Flyer
The BE TV contract did just get a boost when they added UConn, which Fox lobbied for, so it was no surprise UConn was their next invitee. There is still room for more TV contract money if they expand to 12 teams and beyond.
I know from a good source that Xavier definitely got veto power over us (probably with support of the other Jesuits) at the initial BE expansion, which included X. But that same source told me X was told that it was a one time veto and if Dayton were in the cards in the future they would not have any say except for their one vote.
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Why would X want veto power over UD, knowing full well that it would become known? Kissell often spoke of and emphasized the importance of the UD-X relationship, and emphasized how good it was. I recall his saying that "UD and X are joined at the hip"...his words exactly.
Ted was no one's fool...indeed, the best AD ever by a wide margin. I think he believed that the UD-X connection was strong. If so, why would the X administration turn on us? Even if, deep down, they would prefer that UD not be in the BE, seems to me that they wouldn't want to take a stand that was sure to become known by us and everyone else.
We still connect with X in several other sports. While a BE invite appears extremely improbable to me, making every effort to have X to advocate for us would seem worth the effort.
Having said that, I view BE membership as "Be careful what you wish for happening". In the A10 we can be a big fish in a small pond kinda member. Stay at the top all the time and the NCAAs become easy. In the BE we're just another fish fighting for our lives every year. We've got to become the Gonzaga of the Midwest.....meaning consistent excellence which we have yet to achieve.
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03-15-2021, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
Why would X want veto power over UD, knowing full well that it would become known? Kissell often spoke of and emphasized the importance of the UD-X relationship, and emphasized how good it was. I recall his saying that "UD and X are joined at the hip"...his words exactly.
Ted was no one's fool...indeed, the best AD ever by a wide margin. I think he believed that the UD-X connection was strong. If so, why would the X administration turn on us? Even if, deep down, they would prefer that UD not be in the BE, seems to me that they wouldn't want to take a stand that was sure to become known by us and everyone else.
We still connect with X in several other sports. While a BE invite appears extremely improbable to me, making every effort to have X to advocate for us would seem worth the effort.
Having said that, I view BE membership as "Be careful what you wish for happening". In the A10 we can be a big fish in a small pond kinda member. Stay at the top all the time and the NCAAs become easy. In the BE we're just another fish fighting for our lives every year. We've got to become the Gonzaga of the Midwest.....meaning consistent excellence which we have yet to achieve.
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The problem isn't the present, it's the future. The A10 took a step backward when we lost X, Butler and Temple. What happens if we should lose VCU and SLU? Yeah, we then become a bigger fish in a smaller pond, but we also probably become closer to a Loyola than we do a Xavier(I know Loyola had one big run a few years ago, so whoever responds to this, pleas spare me the anomalies). .
The problem is, when you become a big fish due to subtraction, you tend to draw less talented players and when it comes time to play in the big dance, you are terribly outmanned. I always dream of a national championship and while that might be a pipe dream, taking steps closer toward that goal is desirable, steps away from that goal is intolerable.
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03-15-2021, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
Why would X want veto power over UD, knowing full well that it would become known? Kissell often spoke of and emphasized the importance of the UD-X relationship, and emphasized how good it was. I recall his saying that "UD and X are joined at the hip"...his words exactly.
Ted was no one's fool...indeed, the best AD ever by a wide margin. I think he believed that the UD-X connection was strong. If so, why would the X administration turn on us? Even if, deep down, they would prefer that UD not be in the BE, seems to me that they wouldn't want to take a stand that was sure to become known by us and everyone else.
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X doesn't want anything to do with UD as far as men's basketball is concerned, they aren't even trying to hide it anymore. They want to be the premiere Catholic university in southwest Ohio, UD is an obstacle to that goal. Every man for himself, that's my interpretation. There is no reason why they shouldn't schedule UD, it has been several years now, it's obvious that they don't want to play UD.
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03-15-2021, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
X doesn't want anything to do with UD as far as men's basketball is concerned, they aren't even trying to hide it anymore. They want to be the premiere Catholic university in southwest Ohio, UD is an obstacle to that goal. Every man for himself, that's my interpretation. There is no reason why they shouldn't schedule UD, it has been several years now, it's obvious that they don't want to play UD.
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It's going to take a heck of a lot more than basketball for X to be anywhere near what UD is. X's overall academic program is light years behind UD, and falling further behind each year. It also appears that X along with Butler have fallen to the middle of the pack in the NBE. That may be temporary or it may not.
Last edited by UD62; 03-15-2021 at 06:51 PM..
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03-15-2021, 06:31 PM
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True, but,...
Originally Posted by ud2
X doesn't want anything to do with UD as far as men's basketball is concerned, they aren't even trying to hide it anymore. They want to be the premiere Catholic university in southwest Ohio, UD is an obstacle to that goal. Every man for himself, that's my interpretation. There is no reason why they shouldn't schedule UD, it has been several years now, it's obvious that they don't want to play UD.
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Originally Posted by UD62
It's going to take a heck of a lot more than basketball for X to be anywhere near what UD is. UD's overall academic program is light years behind UD, and falling further behind each year. Italso appears that X along with Butler have fallen to the middle of the pack in the NBE. That may be temporary or it may not.
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That X doesn't want to play us is no doubt true or we'd be playing them. I'm less sure of the reasons given. UC doesn't want to play us either. Both schools are long-time rivals, neighborhood rivals. However, none of the reasons given for X not wanting to play us apply to UC.
Depaul and Marquette were longtime rivals as well. and they won't play us either. And nearby OSU. Kidding, right?
Schools have one major goal in mind at the beginning of each season....a record of performance that will get them into the NCAAs. Isn't that what we want more than anything? For most schools playing at UD Arena will result in a loss. They know that and so do we. The impact of playing at Gonzaga and losing is tolerable as far as the NCAAs go. Apparently that is not the case with UD. At least it's not worth the risk.
The single greatest difference between GU and UD programs, in my opinion, is consistency, or lack thereof. We have had some good teams over the last decade, one fantastic. But excellence still is sort of hit or miss at Dayton...and schedules are made in advance. I believe that if the Flyers "never" fell below #3 in the A10 and mostly were #1 or #2 we would be an NCAA regular...and a loss at the Arena would always be a "good" loss. Top tier opponents, incl the ones very near by, would likely be less reluctant to schedule home-and-home games with us. Just opinion.
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03-15-2021, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
That X doesn't want to play us is no doubt true or we'd be playing them. I'm less sure of the reasons given. UC doesn't want to play us either. Both schools are long-time rivals, neighborhood rivals. However, none of the reasons given for X not wanting to play us apply to UC.
Depaul and Marquette were longtime rivals as well. and they won't play us either. And nearby OSU. Kidding, right?
Schools have one major goal in mind at the beginning of each season....a record of performance that will get them into the NCAAs. Isn't that what we want more than anything? For most schools playing at UD Arena will result in a loss. They know that and so do we. The impact of playing at Gonzaga and losing is tolerable as far as the NCAAs go. Apparently that is not the case with UD. At least it's not worth the risk.
The single greatest difference between GU and UD programs, in my opinion, is consistency, or lack thereof. We have had some good teams over the last decade, one fantastic. But excellence still is sort of hit or miss at Dayton...and schedules are made in advance. I believe that if the Flyers "never" fell below #3 in the A10 and mostly were #1 or #2 we would be an NCAA regular...and a loss at the Arena would always be a "good" loss. Top tier opponents, incl the ones very near by, would likely be less reluctant to schedule home-and-home games with us. Just opinion.
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Could be...the only recent, since the NBE was formed, X home and home that raised an eyebrow was Northern Iowa...UC, same time period, h and h's with UNLV and New Mexico...Marquette, I found nothing to raise an eyebrow...DePaul, h and h's with Cleveland State, Oregon State, and Penn State...DePaul has been poor for the last decade+ though
Last edited by ud2; 03-16-2021 at 01:05 AM..
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03-24-2021, 01:02 PM
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I know Loyola's recent success is not necessarily indicative of a pattern. They were very bad for a very long time. However, if you could secure Porter Moser, say by promising an invite to the Atlantic 10, would the Ramblers be a good addition? Chicago...
The A10 could go back to 16 with Loyola and Belmont. You could easily do a 20-game schedule where you play your regional 4-team pod twice, everybody else once, and have 2-flex games for pairing off the best teams.
So for example: UD plays Belmont (x2), SLU (x2), Loyola (x2) and everyone else once for a total of 18 games. You leave 2 conference games open to pair up at-large contenders for a total of 20 conference games.
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03-24-2021, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
I know Loyola's recent success is not necessarily indicative of a pattern. They were very bad for a very long time. However, if you could secure Porter Moser, say by promising an invite to the Atlantic 10, would the Ramblers be a good addition? Chicago...
The A10 could go back to 16 with Loyola and Belmont. You could easily do a 20-game schedule where you play your regional 4-team pod twice, everybody else once, and have 2-flex games for pairing off the best teams.
So for example: UD plays Belmont (x2), SLU (x2), Loyola (x2) and everyone else once for a total of 18 games. You leave 2 conference games open to pair up at-large contenders for a total of 20 conference games.
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Sounded good to me. But then I remembered that Sister Jean is 101 years old. I wish her well, for whatever reasons she can't be there for them in the future, they probably turn into Fordham.
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03-24-2021, 05:31 PM
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I know off topic but I find Loyola’s success and DePaul’s continued floundering to be interesting.
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