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  #1601  
Old 10-30-2018, 07:15 PM
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I mean, I don't disagree with that. It's sad the POTUS has to resort to that to inspire his base.

The right foamed at the mouth when Obama wore a tan suit or used honey dijon. There would be riots in the streets if he had employed the same strategy as Trump.
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  #1602  
Old 10-30-2018, 07:25 PM
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When you Google the 14th Amendment, you have to go three pages before you get to an article that is not from a liberal source. Thank you Google for your meddling into the minds of our people.

Every media outlet going crazy about this is not mentioning the "under the jurisdiction" clause. How convenient, since that is the entire argument in this case. Foreign citizens, illegal aliens and American Indians (before 1923), who are not US citizens do not meet the intent of this clause. "Under the jurisdiction" does not mean subject to US courts and laws. It means owing exclusive political allegiance to the USA.

"Furthermore, there has never been an explicit holding by the Supreme Court that the children of illegal aliens are automatically accorded birthright citizenship. In the case of Wong Kim Ark (1898) the Court ruled that a child born in the U.S. of legal aliens was entitled to “birthright citizenship” under the 14th Amendment. This was a 5–4 opinion which provoked the dissent of Chief Justice Melville Fuller, who argued that, contrary to the reasoning of the majority’s holding, the 14th Amendment did not in fact adopt the common-law understanding of birthright citizenship."

https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/...-constitution/

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  #1603  
Old 10-30-2018, 07:41 PM
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Not rocket science

Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
When you Google the 14th Amendment, you have to go three pages before you get to an article that is not from a liberal source. Thank you Google for your meddling into the minds of our people.

Every media outlet going crazy about this is not mentioning the "under the jurisdiction" clause. How convenient, since that is the entire argument in this case. Foreign citizens, illegal aliens and American Indians (before 1923), who are not US citizens do not meet the intent of this clause. "Under the jurisdiction" does not mean subject to US courts and laws. It means owing exclusive political allegiance to the USA.

"Furthermore, there has never been an explicit holding by the Supreme Court that the children of illegal aliens are automatically accorded birthright citizenship. In the case of Wong Kim Ark (1898) the Court ruled that a child born in the U.S. of legal aliens was entitled to “birthright citizenship” under the 14th Amendment. This was a 5–4 opinion which provoked the dissent of Chief Justice Melville Fuller, who argued that, contrary to the reasoning of the majority’s holding, the 14th Amendment did not in fact adopt the common-law understanding of birthright citizenship."

https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/...-constitution/
Who says jurisdiction means "owing exclusive political allegiance to the USA"? Every definition of the word "jurisdiction" that I have found states, essentially, that if a person is in the USA they are "under the jurisdiction" of the USA. That is, a person's physical presence in the Country establishes that they are "under the jurisdiction", etc.

I am not suggesting that I support the 14th Amendment. But, as written, it seems pretty clear to me. Perhaps it should be amended (along with the 2nd).

If the President tackles this issue by way of EO we'll likely see the SCOTUS have a shot at it.
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  #1604  
Old 10-31-2018, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by IAFlyer View Post
Much like the comment below - I think this will be a tough one for the Trump Admin. If he wants to limit the 14th, why not the 2nd? or the 1st?
The 14th amendment only started to be interpreted as allowing birthright citizenship starting in the 1960's. I do not see why we can't go back to the previous interpretation.

And I think one could argue that the 2nd amendment has already been limited several times.


https://www.axios.com/trump-birthrig...1fd72ea82.html

Until the 1960s, the 14th Amendment was never applied to undocumented or temporary immigrants, Eastman said.

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  #1605  
Old 10-31-2018, 04:47 AM
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https://www.westernjournal.com/ct/ma...4th-amendment/

For what it is worth, this quote is supposedly from the author of the 14th amendment:

Many have argued that the 14th Amendment infers automatic citizenship upon any person born within the United States, even if the person’s parents are in the country illegally.

This has led to the use of the term “anchor babies” to describe such persons, as the citizenship they are granted upon birth acts as an anchor to keep the family from being deported, despite their lack of legal status.

But that simply isn’t what was intended by the 14th Amendment, as proven by the words of the very man who authored the amendment in 1866, Michigan Sen. Jacob M. Howard.

Howard explained in writing exactly what the scope of the law was when he introduced it, making it quite clear that it was referring to granting citizenship to the recently freed slaves only, not foreigners or even Native Americans.

According to The Federalist Papers Project, Howard wrote, in part, “that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States.”

But Howard continued, “This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.
See the link below. Apparently Howard made these comments in the Senate.

https://www.14thamendment.us/article...tionality.html

Sen. Lyman Trumbull, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, author of the Thirteenth Amendment, and the one who inserted the phrase:

[T]he provision is, that 'all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.' That means 'subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.' What do we mean by 'complete jurisdiction thereof?' Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.

Trumbull continues, "Can you sue a Navajo Indian in court? Are they in any sense subject to the complete jurisdiction of the United States? By no means. We make treaties with them, and therefore they are not subject to our jurisdiction. If they were, we wouldn't make treaties with them...It is only those persons who come completely within our jurisdiction, who are subject to our laws, that we think of making citizens; and there can be no objection to the proposition that such persons should be citizens.[2]
There seems to be little doubt of the intentions of the writers of the 14th amendment. They told us explicitly what their intentions were on the floor of the Senate.

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  #1606  
Old 10-31-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Who says jurisdiction means "owing exclusive political allegiance to the USA"? Every definition of the word "jurisdiction" that I have found states, essentially, that if a person is in the USA they are "under the jurisdiction" of the USA. That is, a person's physical presence in the Country establishes that they are "under the jurisdiction", etc.
The author of the National Review article for one, but also many, many constitutional lawyers.

By your quoted definition, all visitors and foreign diplomats are under jurisdiction. That is not what the writer's of the constitution intended, if you read the National Review article and the articles in Fudd's post.
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  #1607  
Old 10-31-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Who says jurisdiction means "owing exclusive political allegiance to the USA"?.
Originally Posted by Fudd View Post

https://www.14thamendment.us/article...tionality.html

But what exactly did "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" mean to the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment? Again, we are fortunate to have on record the highest authority to tell us, Sen. Lyman Trumbull, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, author of the Thirteenth Amendment, and the one who inserted the phrase:

[T]he provision is, that 'all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.' That means 'subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.' What do we mean by 'complete jurisdiction thereof?' Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.

Trumbull continues, "Can you sue a Navajo Indian in court? Are they in any sense subject to the complete jurisdiction of the United States? By no means. We make treaties with them, and therefore they are not subject to our jurisdiction. If they were, we wouldn't make treaties with them...It is only those persons who come completely within our jurisdiction, who are subject to our laws, that we think of making citizens; and there can be no objection to the proposition that such persons should be citizens.[2]
Apparently, this came from Sen. Lyman Trumbull, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, author of the Thirteenth Amendment per the quote above.

It will be real interesting to see how this plays out if Trump makes the executive order. If it goes to the Supreme Court, how much would the Justices weigh the writings of the authors of the amendment in deciding what is Constitutional? The authors explicitly stated what their intentions were.

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  #1608  
Old 10-31-2018, 11:08 AM
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Yes

Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
Apparently, this came from Sen. Lyman Trumbull, Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, author of the Thirteenth Amendment per the quote above.

It will be real interesting to see how this plays out if Trump makes the executive order. If it goes to the Supreme Court, how much would the Justices weigh the writings of the authors of the amendment in deciding what is Constitutional? The authors explicitly stated what their intentions were.
It will be interesting and probably the SCOTUS will decide for us. The WSJ editorial board weighed in in an editorial...examining previous legal cases. They conclude it's a slam dunk. If you're born on U.S. soil you're a citizen.

On another matter: Everything I've read claims that regardless of the issues, Tuesday's election is a referendum on Trump. I will be up late watching that night.
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  #1609  
Old 10-31-2018, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
It will be interesting and probably the SCOTUS will decide for us. The WSJ editorial board weighed in in an editorial...examining previous legal cases. They conclude it's a slam dunk. If you're born on U.S. soil you're a citizen.

On another matter: Everything I've read claims that regardless of the issues, Tuesday's election is a referendum on Trump. I will be up late watching that night.
The WSJ editorial board is nice and all, but fortunately for us, it does not decide matters of Constitutional Law.

An executive order would do nothing but likely push it to the Supreme Court where it would be decided.
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  #1610  
Old 10-31-2018, 11:17 AM
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One of the many problems with the internet is that too many believe they are experts on everything.

Some of the legal "interpretations" here are... novel.
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  #1611  
Old 10-31-2018, 11:32 AM
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The Constitution

Is sort of like a poem .... OK give me chance to splain myself .

A poem uses words to convey, tell or in some manner emote communications to those who read those words. In English Literature those phrases are discussed as to what the person who conceived those words was saying, tried to say or meant.

During the formation of the constitution men (only!) discussed, wrote and argued thoughts, concepts and ideals that they believed needed to be communicated to the people.

So we all know that sometimes placing a thought, concept or idea down on paper doesn't always translate well as to our true intent. (BTW That never happens here in these threads does it?)

In the case of the author of a poem we can either read those phrases and without any context to go by, we attempt to discuss what the author meant or tried to say within the poem. Sometimes we refer to the authors other writings to get some idea of the authors philosophy or thinking. That may help in providing context the poem we are studying.

Sometimes if all else fails we just wing it as to the underlining meaning of the poem.

With the constitution we have much better grounds to understand what the intent of the written words mean or what they are to convey to us. Where the written constitutional words may be subject to their conveyance of meaning we have in some form or another the discussion of what the intent of those written words was to be.

The Federalist Papers although a bit of a slog to read gives us the means to read what the authors had in mind and intent when the constitutional words were written.

Speeches on a proposed amendment in congress whether using the initial presentation or arguments made for and against, can also be used to gather information as to what the intent of the amendment is.

Again the words may slightly fail us as written or seem to be 'up for interruption' but if we visit the background written words these can tell us much more as to the intent.

As years have gone by, each generation takes those written words in the constitution and attempt to bend them toward our interpretation in the present condition. That's all fair and good but when we change the intent we are seemingly re-arguing or re-discussing that which had been settled before.

Anyway I digress ... the point is with a poem we are asked to seek out what the author meant in his phrases and her wording ... although we can interpret a completely false narrative of the authors intent (which I am sure would earn you a D or F in English Lit 101) we attempt to learn what the author was intending in the words they so wisely chose to use ....

In the constitution we have much more material to go on as to the intent. We may like what the intent was but if we chose to make the ideal/idea in the constitution bend to our liking we need to re-write it not re-interpret it.

That is why on occasion the Supreme's seem to believe that seeing something that isn't there is there has conjured up alot of social manipulation in this country.

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  #1612  
Old 10-31-2018, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
And I think one could argue that the 2nd amendment has already been limited several times.
Here is the danger with these kinds of actions (the EO):

What happens when the Dems regain the WH - and it will happen at some point - Do they reverse this EO just as Trump did with a lot of Obama EOs?

Do they write an EO on the 2nd amendment saying the first line states a well-regulated militia, and since the "well-regulated" which means the government is in charge of said militia. If you are not "in a newly defined militia" that is regulated by the government, you can no longer own a gun.

I get that is an extreme move, but we've seen it before - Harry Reid went with simple majority on justices because the GOP would not approve ANY federal judge appointed by Obama Admin. That came to bite them with Kavanaugh.

I think this will come around to bite the GOP in the future.
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  #1613  
Old 10-31-2018, 11:41 AM
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Even Harry Reid agrees with Trump on birthright citizenship. "No sane country would do that".

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Old 10-31-2018, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by IAFlyer View Post
Here is the danger with these kinds of actions (the EO):

What happens when the Dems regain the WH - and it will happen at some point - Do they reverse this EO just as Trump did with a lot of Obama EOs?
...

I think this will come around to bite the GOP in the future.
That's what happens when you justify bending the rules to gain your results ...
It becomes the point to a counter point by the other side when it is 'their turn'.

As long as one party rules and then another there tends to be although rather crudely some equilibrium. When one party wins over a long period of time, say as the Dems where the majority in the House from 1978-1992 things can get extreme.

As this condition continues that we bend long established rules to gain an advantage we will see each party attempting to not just win but to effectively eliminate the other.

It is no longer, play along (as in bipartisanship) but a battle to not participate with the opposition.

The DEMS started this some years back. The GOP was slow to catch on that the rules and environment had changed. They have only recently (say 2010) started the push back and play the same game.

Both sides have gathered their warriors, their party of disruption gangs and the hard liners.

It will get worse maybe much worse before it may get better.
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Old 10-31-2018, 06:34 PM
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What I find interesting is for 40 years the Democrats have told us the 2nd Amendment was about muskets and not AR15s and that the Constitution is a living breathing document designed to be flexible with changing times. While Republicans have said we must read the Constitution more strictly as the framers intended it at the time it was written.

Now the Trump 14th amendment/EO news cycle comes around and the roles are completely reversed. The Dems now say, whoa hold on we must read the 14th amendment very strictly and not over-interpret it, while the GOP is saying wait a second you have to understand the Federalist papers and have some modern flexibility to what it meant because it was more or less only passed to combat Dred Scott and had little to do with anchor baby citizenship.

Neither side can be consistent on anything for more than about 10 seconds. Obama EO'd until the ink in his pen went try to ignore Constitutionality respecting border security and lawful deportations. This stuff happens all the time. Obama did it. Trump might try to do it. The next POTUS will do the same.

In practice, I have no problem getting rid of birthright citizenship in 2018. It was fine to combat Dred Scott and make black slaves full US citizens (spearheaded by Republicans), but its being abused for a different purpose today. But Im only for changing it through a Constitutional amendment or repeal of a Constitutional amendment. If its endorsed by enough people, get the states on board and ratify it. Otherwise suck it up and live with it. I tell the same thing to the anti-2A lobby: repeal the 2nd Amendment or ratify a new amendment that supercedes it with greater clarity. Until then, you got nuthin'. This is the process in place to change the Constitution if you dont like the Constitution. Running interference through the SCOTUS, using EOs, and passing unconstitutional laws through Congress is the chicken-poop approach. Its deliberately difficult to change the Constitution by design. And thank God for that.
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Old 10-31-2018, 07:55 PM
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Trump knows if he uses an EO to clarify the 14th, it is temporary. I have heard him say it. He says his preferred method would be by Congress passing a law. It probably needs 60 votes, so it will not happen.
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
What I find interesting is for 40 years the Democrats have told us the 2nd Amendment was about muskets and not AR15s and that the Constitution is a living breathing document designed to be flexible with changing times. While Republicans have said we must read the Constitution more strictly as the framers intended it at the time it was written.

Now the Trump 14th amendment/EO news cycle comes around and the roles are completely reversed. The Dems now say, whoa hold on we must read the 14th amendment very strictly and not over-interpret it, while the GOP is saying wait a second you have to understand the Federalist papers and have some modern flexibility to what it meant because it was more or less only passed to combat Dred Scott and had little to do with anchor baby citizenship.

Neither side can be consistent on anything for more than about 10 seconds. Obama EO'd until the ink in his pen went try to ignore Constitutionality respecting border security and lawful deportations. This stuff happens all the time. Obama did it. Trump might try to do it. The next POTUS will do the same.

In practice, I have no problem getting rid of birthright citizenship in 2018. It was fine to combat Dred Scott and make black slaves full US citizens (spearheaded by Republicans), but its being abused for a different purpose today. But Im only for changing it through a Constitutional amendment or repeal of a Constitutional amendment. If its endorsed by enough people, get the states on board and ratify it. Otherwise suck it up and live with it. I tell the same thing to the anti-2A lobby: repeal the 2nd Amendment or ratify a new amendment that supercedes it with greater clarity. Until then, you got nuthin'. This is the process in place to change the Constitution if you dont like the Constitution. Running interference through the SCOTUS, using EOs, and passing unconstitutional laws through Congress is the chicken-poop approach. Its deliberately difficult to change the Constitution by design. And thank God for that.
This is an oversimplification. It could be a fair point if there was a legitimate debate in the legal community and if the jurisprudence and history around this topic were different, but there simply isn't a debate. You can always find somebody willing to make an argument, but that doesn't make it a winning one (or even a good one). So much so that I would be a little surprised if the Supreme Court even granted cert to hear any case on the matter.

I would also advise against using the term "anchor baby," as it implies the purpose is to effectively use the child to sponsor the family to get into the United States. Anybody with a cursory understanding of our immigration laws, quotas, and waiting periods can show in pretty stark terms why the idea of this being some sort of magic advantage is incredibly specious.
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 View Post
This is an oversimplification. It could be a fair point if there was a legitimate debate in the legal community and if the jurisprudence and history around this topic were different, but there simply isn't a debate. You can always find somebody willing to make an argument, but that doesn't make it a winning one (or even a good one). So much so that I would be a little surprised if the Supreme Court even granted cert to hear any case on the matter.

I would also advise against using the term "anchor baby," as it implies the purpose is to effectively use the child to sponsor the family to get into the United States. Anybody with a cursory understanding of our immigration laws, quotas, and waiting periods can show in pretty stark terms why the idea of this being some sort of magic advantage is incredibly specious.
Aren't there laws that do give advantage to those who want to "chain migrate" based on family connections to someone who already has citizenship in the United States?
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
Aren't there laws that do give advantage to those who want to "chain migrate" based on family connections to someone who already has citizenship in the United States?
Sure, but given the quotas and waiting times, it could take as long as 20-25 years for it to happen (at least from those countries most people are "worried" about). It's just not a practical way to expedite entry into the US.

I'm not an immigration attorney so if somebody is, please feel free to correct me. I know I haven't looked at the quotas and associated waiting times since I was in law school so it could have changed a bit, but the broader point was something that really stuck with me because I didn't realize how long the process could still take.

Last edited by flyerfanatic86; 11-01-2018 at 10:55 AM.. Reason: Adjusted years it could take
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Old 11-01-2018, 11:27 AM
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Last quarter wages saw the highest increase in ten years. Crickets from the media who constantly complain about it. When you say to a Dem, or Trump hater, look how great the economy is, they respond, but wages are not up. Well, they are!
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Old 11-01-2018, 12:27 PM
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Peanuts.
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by flyerfanatic86 View Post
Sure, but given the quotas and waiting times, it could take as long as 20-25 years for it to happen (at least from those countries most people are "worried" about). It's just not a practical way to expedite entry into the US.

I'm not an immigration attorney so if somebody is, please feel free to correct me. I know I haven't looked at the quotas and associated waiting times since I was in law school so it could have changed a bit, but the broader point was something that really stuck with me because I didn't realize how long the process could still take.
Well, my wife and I went through the immigration process for her when we were married. She had been on the waiting list for 9 years, and was probably 1 year from being accepted at that time.

Having lived on the border and worked in Mexico for about 8 years, I know that there is great incentive to cross the border to have your children. In fact, at one time, there was a whole midwife industry that existed down there as a result of that demand.

It's the same as the birth citizenship tourism that exists for Chinese and Russian women. Come to the USA to have your kids and give them citizenship rights, and then return to your home country. A lot of these children spend their first few days of life here, and then go back to their parents countries for decades or most of their lives, but have citizenship in their hip pocket in case they ever want to take advantage of the opportunities here. It's like a gift from their parents. They grow up in their parents country and then come to the USA as young adults to find work, assuming they speak English or take advantage of other citizenship benefits. They get state tuition to college in the state they were born in, and they or their family likely have never paid a cent of taxes in the United States.

I believe that the parents often look at this as a foot in the door for their own future possible citizenship in the USA as well.

I'm all for legal immigration. We have just created a system that is crazy, and undermines the people trying to do it the right way. I'm not a fan of birth-right citizenship for anyone who wants to walk over the border and have a baby. It becomes an uncontrolled free-for-all that is harmful to the country when illegal immigration becomes as massive as it is today.

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Old 11-01-2018, 03:36 PM
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Maybe it's me, but I do not remember a POTUS ever campaigning this hard for the midterms. Trump is everywhere, it is like he is running for president again.

And his strategy appears to be working: the GOP is poised to retain the Senate and maybe even gain Senate seats and maybe even retain the House.

Trump is redefining the job of being president.
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Old 11-01-2018, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Maybe it's me, but I do not remember a POTUS ever campaigning this hard for the midterms. Trump is everywhere, it is like he is running for president again.

And his strategy appears to be working: GOP poised to retain the Senate and maybe even gain Senate seats and maybe even retain the House.

Trump is sort of redefining the job of being president.
One thing that really impresses me is Trumps endless energy to do this stuff. He Campaigned his a$$ off, and probably tipped the scale to make himself President in the last election. He is on the same brutal campaign schedule now. And look at his persistence in delivering on his campaign promises despite the unprecedented resistance against him. He is a bulldog. This has been a very substantive Presidency so far, much as a result of his energy, IMO.
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:49 PM
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Trump regarding the last week's tragedies and how it affects the elections: "Now, we did have two maniacs stop a momentum that was incredible. Because for 7 days, nobody talked about the elections. It stopped a tremendous momentum."

Just imagine if past presidents had talked openly about how national tragedies affected their political standing less than a week after the attack - Obama after Charleston, Bush after 9/11, Clinton after Oklahoma City. The “two maniacs” also stopped 11 Americans from living, but as we’ve learned, Donald Trump only cares about Donald Trump.

This guy is human garbage

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Old 11-02-2018, 09:53 AM
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October jobs report smashes expectations, wages rise at fastest pace since 2009

October jobs report smashes expectations, wages rise at fastest pace since 2009.

The U.S. labor market continues to fire on all cylinders.
In October, the U.S. economy created 250,000 jobs, topping expectations, while the unemployment rate held at 3.7%, matching the lowest level since 1969.
Economists expected nonfarm payrolls grew by 200,000 in October with the unemployment rate forecast to hold at its multi-decade low of 3.7%.
Investors were more closely watching wage growth in October, which rose 0.2% over last month and 3.1% over last year, the fastest pace of annual wage gains since April 2009. Economists expected wages to rise 0.2% over last month and 3.1% over last year.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/live-...112742973.html

For zmz:

Pittsburgh synagogue rabbi says Trump showed 'warm and personal side' during visit.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/01/polit...ntv/index.html
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Old 11-02-2018, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by zmz723 View Post
Trump regarding the last week's tragedies and how it affects the elections: "Now, we did have two maniacs stop a momentum that was incredible. Because for 7 days, nobody talked about the elections. It stopped a tremendous momentum."

Just imagine if past presidents had talked openly about how national tragedies affected their political standing less than a week after the attack - Obama after Charleston, Bush after 9/11, Clinton after Oklahoma City. The “two maniacs” also stopped 11 Americans from living, but as we’ve learned, Donald Trump only cares about Donald Trump.

This guy is human garbage
One thing that can surely be said about the man, he says what is on his mind and what he is thinking. Good bad or indifferent that is who he is.

Cringe worthy for certain most times.

However, we have seen/heard many politicians including most definitely the 3 you sited who maintained a level of decorum and have lied to the people ...

So as a population we are not use to Trump. And we as a population have continued to accept the decorum and lies spoken by the other politicians time after time. You see we expect that type of outward appearance due to the fact we are use to and comfortable with that approach.

Maybe the issue should be neither approach is going to work any more.

Maybe we as a population want something different.

Maybe we as a population should want something different.

Maybe we as a population like hiding behind the decorum and lies.

Something to think about!
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Old 11-02-2018, 10:47 AM
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It is Fair to Judge

any U.S. President on his/her policies. It is unfair to judge them on their personality traits. To do the latter indicates the shallow intelligence and incompetence of the critic IMHO.
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Old 11-02-2018, 11:49 AM
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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/max...if-house-flips

Oh good lord, look at who could be running these committees if the Dems take the House. I thought Maxine Waters was considered a whacko, even by her own party, but apparently that is not the case. It's amazing how far left the Democratic party has gone.

And consider the vows to further investigate "Russia Collusion", despite what has been revealed about the origins of the current "Investigation". There is no shame.

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Old 11-02-2018, 11:57 AM
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Two different issues.
Trump as a human being like Bill Clinton says and does things that
are cringe worthy. Both appear to execute the job of President well.


On the other hand Jimmy Carter while seemingly
is an outstanding human being was sadly lacking doing the job
of President.
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Furio View Post
Two different issues.

On the other hand Jimmy Carter while seemingly
is an outstanding human being was sadly lacking doing the job
of President.
Jimmy Carter!!!!!!!!

Don't get me started on that guy.

Good-golly I still can't believe that man was commander of a nuclear submarine.

Wearing sweaters during the oil troubles and saying this is the new normal.

When I heard Obama say virtually the same dam thing (for the slow growth or non-existent economic growth) I fell out of my chair!

And look what happens. We elect a R Reagan and a Trump right after that and the economy goes gang-busters ...

As much as things change, things stay the same.
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Old 11-02-2018, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
One thing that can surely be said about the man, he says what is on his mind and what he is thinking. Good bad or indifferent that is who he is.

Cringe worthy for certain most times.

However, we have seen/heard many politicians including most definitely the 3 you sited who maintained a level of decorum and have lied to the people ...

So as a population we are not use to Trump. And we as a population have continued to accept the decorum and lies spoken by the other politicians time after time. You see we expect that type of outward appearance due to the fact we are use to and comfortable with that approach.

Maybe the issue should be neither approach is going to work any more.

Maybe we as a population want something different.

Maybe we as a population should want something different.

Maybe we as a population like hiding behind the decorum and lies.

Something to think about!
I guess it's better because we know Trump is lying to us on a daily basis as much of what he says is easily fact-checked?

I get that he says what is on his mind, I do wish he had a filter. He is not truthful, however.
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Old 11-02-2018, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
any U.S. President on his/her policies. It is unfair to judge them on their personality traits. To do the latter indicates the shallow intelligence and incompetence of the critic IMHO.
People like ZMZ have trouble dismantling policy, so they attack the person. That's what liberals do.

I would rather have someone who is an effective A hole who tells me like it is, than a nice liar.

Some had no problem with Obama lying to the people with a smug smile on his face and a polished look. But they have a serious problem with someone being blunt.

I don't care for his words he chooses to use and at times when he uses them. With that being said, I want someone who is about action in the WH (and every other elected position) versus a blowhard that simply tells people what they want to hear to skate by their time in office.

Find someone who has accomplished more in the first two years. Hell, Obama's "legacy" was practically unwritten in the first 12 months to include 11 of his landmark items.

Start dissecting his action or inaction on items. Start dissecting the bills signed, mandates repealed, etc. I don't care if you agree on what decisions he and his cabinet have made, but he simply is getting a hell of a lot more work done than his predecessor.
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Old 11-02-2018, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by IAFlyer View Post
I guess it's better because we know Trump is lying to us on a daily basis as much of what he says is easily fact-checked?

I get that he says what is on his mind, I do wish he had a filter. He is not truthful, however.
Great, but it is okay for you to lie by saying Trump lies on a daily basis.
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Old 11-02-2018, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Great, but it is okay for you to lie by saying Trump lies on a daily basis.
Actually that can be proven as well. Every one of his rallies/statements has falsehoods included. Every. Single. One.
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Old 11-02-2018, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by IAFlyer View Post
Actually that can be proven as well. Every one of his rallies/statements has falsehoods included. Every. Single. One.
You say lies when some are just opinions you and liberals do not agree with. Let's say you are correct. Did he have a rally every single day since he took office?

Every time Sanders, Clinton, Obama make a speech they lie by your criteria. Fox and CNN lie daily by your criteria. Did Obama lie when he said, those manufacturing jobs are gone forever, or was it just political talk?

Give us a half dozen Trump lies in the last two weeks. Hard to go back? Give us five in the next week.
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Old 11-02-2018, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
You say lies when some are just opinions you and liberals do not agree with. Let's say you are correct. Did he have a rally every single day since he took office?

Every time Sanders, Clinton, Obama make a speech they lie by your criteria. Fox and CNN lie daily by your criteria. Did Obama lie when he said, those manufacturing jobs are gone forever, or was it just political talk?

Give us a half dozen Trump lies in the last two weeks. Hard to go back? Give us five in the next week.
About 83 in one day.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/02/polit...ies/index.html
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Old 11-02-2018, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by IAFlyer View Post
Actually that can be proven as well. Every one of his rallies/statements has falsehoods included. Every. Single. One.
I am not disagreeing with what you are stating...but I will insert that "but" here...

Every **** one of these politicians lie. I will also say that the ability to call one out on the lies rests with how statements are interpreted as well. The opposite party interprets statements differently.

I read the CNN link you posted and went to the supporting websites. Nothing real revolutionary and many of the statements regarding refuting Trumps statements are all interpretation.

The "lies" they state are "lies" aren't lies. They state his claims about black unemployment are untrue. Their basis for that is that black unemployment was only tracked since 1972. So had Trump inserted "lowest black unemployment since 1972" is now makes it a true statement? These are stretches, and they state that one claim regarding black unemployment was repeated 92 times? So did he lie 92 times? Or just repeat a false statement 92 times? Either way, it wasn't a false statement to begin with.

Here is another "Trump regularly disparages Obama's handling of the economy, but the majority of economic trends that have continued under Trump's first term started under Obama and growth has stayed relatively stable." That is their response stating that one of his tweets was a lie. This is hardly refuting is tweet to call it false. This is one party's interpretation versus another. Simple.

I don't disagree with politicians lying. But there are motives with those that state he is outright lying 83 times in one day by stating there was no collusion with Russia. Correct me if I am wrong, but has anyone proven he colluded with Russia to influence the election, or was that just Hillary and the DNC. Pretty harsh for the liberal media to state Trump is lying when he stated there wasn't any collusion with Russia.

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Old 11-02-2018, 04:09 PM
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How can I pay attention to Propaganda Machine Fake News CNN's "fact-checking", when they themselves are notorious for intentionally spinning the news in misleading ways? How many false stories have they run since Trump has been in office? Remember the fish feeding story in Japan? They are no impartial authority on the facts. It's like an alcoholic calling everyone else drunk.
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:58 PM
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Does this help? The running meter on Trump's statements. 69% are mostly false, false, or pants on fire.

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
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Old 11-02-2018, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by IAFlyer View Post
Does this help? The running meter on Trump's statements. 69% are mostly false, false, or pants on fire.

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

Interesting site but Rush Limbaugh scores even worse.
Rachel Maddow score is better but overall it enforces my decision
to avoid the propaganda talk shows left or right
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Old 11-03-2018, 09:18 AM
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IMHO. there is a huge difference between exaggerations and outright lies.. DJT exaggerates quite a bit, especially when using descriptive adjectives ( e.g. best, greatest, highest, lowest, etc.) and plays them for the pompous fools they are. The Beltway and bi-Coastal Media elites lie, distort and misrepresent the "facts" a helluva lot more than DJT does (IMHO. When it comes to "lying" no one can compare to BHO or HRC, however, the "Media" never called either one on their fabrications. Trump, while being a bit of a blowhard, has actually fulfilled a host of his campaign promises from his Presidential run unlike many of his predecessors.

As far as BHO taking credit for the strong economy...P-U-L-L-E-S-E. His over-regulation, higher taxes and war on development of our natural resources and his anti-business bias, crippled what should have been a roaring economic growth engine after the precipitous drop in activity at the start of his first term. His Administration, more than any other, is responsible for the huge build up in our national debt levels, spent, not on infrastructure or our military, but on social programs that incentivized unemployment and food stamps. He indeed was our first Community Organizer in Chief.
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Old 11-03-2018, 09:55 AM
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Keeping this discussion about lies in mind, I listened to Obama's speech yesterday. I found it full of lies and non-truths. All in the eyes of the listener's paradigm.
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Old 11-03-2018, 11:17 AM
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Obama - Liar

Who lies - Obama.

You can keep your doctor. You can keep your plan.
Those jobs aren't coming back.
Bergdahl is a hero.
“The day after Benghazi happened, I acknowledged that this was an act of terrorism”

A list of Obama lies:

https://www.politifact.com/personali...yruling/false/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f75252356ed7
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Old 11-03-2018, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by IAFlyer View Post
Does this help? The running meter on Trump's statements. 69% are mostly false, false, or pants on fire.

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
Lol. I read the first four items on there, and they are laughable.

Donald Trump
DONALD TRUMP
"The Democrats want to invite caravan after caravan of illegal aliens into our country. And they want to sign them up for free health care, free welfare, free education, and for the right to vote."

— PolitiFact National on Thursday, November 1st, 2018
Politifact says "False". There is no invitation!

But Democrats have openly stated that they think this caravan should be allowed in and openly advocate for free college, health care, guaranteed jobs, guaranteed income, etc, for everyone. They push for amnesty of the already present 20 million illegals in the country. They want the votes.

The underlying thought is true, but they have not officially sent an invitation to the caravan. Thanks for clearing that up PolitiFact, winner of the Pulitzer that you are.

This is indicative of the "fact checking" that we are expected to metabolize? It misses the deeper points completely. It actually intentionally ignores the deeper points, so that stupid fact-counts like this can become further propaganda and talking points.

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Old 11-04-2018, 11:01 AM
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Fact checking, just another way to pick on the President. How about fact checking his accomplishments, instead of his comments?

On another topic, some teenagers were asked if President Trump texts too much? The response was that they text more in a day than he does in a week, so what is the big deal.
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Old 11-04-2018, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Last quarter wages saw the highest increase in ten years. Crickets from the media who constantly complain about it. When you say to a Dem, or Trump hater, look how great the economy is, they respond, but wages are not up. Well, they are!
I agree, this seems like a very big deal, but there is very little chatter from the MSM about this.

The left is always complaining about stagnant wages.

Seems that no matter what Trump accomplishes, they refuse to give him any credit, they have no credibility.

All they focus on is Trump's somewhat crude, crass style, there is no focus at all on the results that Trump is delivering.

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Old 11-05-2018, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
Who lies - Obama.

You can keep your doctor. You can keep your plan.
Those jobs aren't coming back.
Bergdahl is a hero.
“The day after Benghazi happened, I acknowledged that this was an act of terrorism”

A list of Obama lies:

https://www.politifact.com/personali...yruling/false/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f75252356ed7

The volume comparison isn't even close.
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by IAFlyer View Post
The volume comparison isn't even close.
The "volume" that you refer to needs honest scrutiny. See the example I chose earlier in the thread from your link as an example. Anyone can construct a big count by playing literal word games.
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Old 11-05-2018, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Keeping this discussion about lies in mind, I listened to Obama's speech yesterday. I found it full of lies and non-truths. All in the eyes of the listener's paradigm.
I found it boring. He looked old and tired. He has been a great speaker in the past. He wasn’t this past weekend.

All that aside...funny how everyone is following the Trump plan for a Campaign rally. Hmmmmmmm. Must be working for someone.
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Old 11-06-2018, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by IAFlyer View Post
The volume comparison isn't even close.
Very true. But the impact isn't either. Obama dropped some thermo nukes. Trump's are more like carpet bombs. I could do without both, but I recognize in both POTUSs cases that facts didnt matter in either situation and both knew it and leveraged it.

The thing I dont get is why is Obama out campaigning against Trump's agenda and against his direction/preferred candidates overall. I have no issue whatsoever with Obama's own personal sentiment, but his injection into the actual political process strikes me as one of the weirdest things Ive ever seen. Obama had his time. Why is he now trying to undermine the new guy.

Imagine the CEO of General Mills or some big company retiring at the end of his career, and then the Board of Directors voting to hire the new CEO of General Mills to run the company moving forward -- in whatever way the board decided thats how they preferred -- whether they preferred the status quo or wanted to go in another managerial-style direction.

And then months or years later the retired CEO starts barnstorming the country attending rallies and conventions poor-mouthing the current CEO and attempting to undermine the new guy's leadership by getting a management team hired that is more to his liking rather than the current CEO's.

Now as the former CEO Im sure he has stock in the company (consider this Obama being a voter like everyone else in the mid-term election's case), but it seems to be very poor form to basically try to undercut the man running the company that you formerly ran. Would Obama had liked it if George W Bush spent the next 8 years of his life convincing people Obama was the anti-christ and you had to either remove him from office or at the very least he was dangerous to the country and you personally?

Although I had MANY issues with GWB (a list nearly as long as Obama's), the one thing I never lost respect for him for was going quietly back to Crawford Texas and never undermining the power and influence of the bully pulpit of the current POTUS. It's not good for the country -- whether you think he/she is running the show how you believe it should or not. Its like the General Manager of the Celtics coming out and saying "the way our coaching staff handles the pick and roll is not ideal. We need to learn from it and come together and be forward thinking...." You never undermine your coach in public. Ever.

The one thing Obama and Trump have in common is they are both madly deeply in love with themselves. They are two of the most narcissistic people walking the planet. But here's the thing: one is POTUS right now and one is just a citizen again like you and I. The deciding vote goes to the POTUS because he can be narcissistic as part of his job description.

If and when Trump undermines the POTUS to follow him, I'll be first in line to say it's a complete D-Bag move. In private, at the dinner table -- he can think and say whatever his heart desires. But doing so in public is just petty, petulant, spiteful, and ego-maniacal. Even on Twitter.

I dont know if Obama's advisors are telling him to do this, or if he's doing it on his own, but its not making him look good. The one thing that half-way saved some dignity to GWB was he crawled quietly back into his hole and let the new guy steer the boat as he saw fit and bit his tongue and never made disparaging remarks in public. I wish that precedent had been followed because it was a good one.
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Old 11-06-2018, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
The one thing Obama and Trump have in common is they are both madly deeply in love with themselves. They are two of the most narcissistic people walking the planet. But here's the thing: one is POTUS right now and one is just a citizen again like you and I. The deciding vote goes to the POTUS because he can be narcissistic as part of his job description.

I dont know if Obama's advisors are telling him to do this, or if he's doing it on his own, but its not making him look good. The one thing that half-way saved some dignity to GWB was he crawled quietly back into his hole and let the new guy steer the boat as he saw fit and bit his tongue and never made disparaging remarks in public. I wish that precedent had been followed because it was a good one.
The problem is that Obama got a free pass from liberals and his "swagger" was considered "cool". That attitude and "swagger" was the narcissism that you speak of.

Obama's narcissism is precisely why he is back in front of cameras and why he didn't gracefully bow out of the mainstream like those before him. His ego won't allow it. His ego can't stand the fact that Trump and the Trump administration has pretty much undone his entire presidency. He will be salty until the end. He will pull a Hillary and be on "tour" for the rest of his life because there are sheep and minions that will pay money to listen to him spout off. Just as there are sheep and minions that will continue to line the pockets of the criminal enterprise known as the Clinton's.

The church and politics shouldn't make you rich. If it does, you need to look at the real reasons people are doing what they do.
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:17 AM
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The last Democrat president to bow out gracefully and keep his mouth shut was Jimmy Carter, with good reason.
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Old 11-06-2018, 10:25 AM
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Elections don't have to be about party and personalities. They can be about ideas. Do you believe that government should be bigger and take greater control of our lives because most people cannot manage themselves? Do you believe that government should be smaller and get the heck out of our lives because we can manage ourselves better and more efficiently?

If the Democrats were about smaller government, I would be a raging Democrat.

What does history tell us about big vs. small government? What happened when Trump pulled excessive government regulation out of the path of business? Doesn't everybody win in that scenario?

I'm voting on the ideas behind the candidates. I think everyone wins when the right ideas are put into action. I don't care who it is that pushes the good ideas. I will support them. This is bigger than personalities. This is about supporting things that work and strengthen the country.

Congress is a team sport right now, for better or worse. If there is a President who I believe has good ideas and a good track record on delivering them, I don't want to hamstring his ability to keep doing good things, so I will vote for people who will support his good ideas and make them law. Nothing frustrates me more than do-nothing government. The country can only go on cruise control so long before it needs to have good law and sensible spending.

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Old 11-06-2018, 11:28 AM
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The Right Color

My wife and I were wearing red at the polling place. The guy in front of me had a red UD sweatshirt on. On the way out he commented that he was glad to see we were wearing the right color.
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Old 11-06-2018, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
The last Democrat president to bow out gracefully and keep his mouth shut was Jimmy Carter, with good reason.
He was pretty vocal during the Bush administration.
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:12 PM
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Time to invest everything you got!

"Since 1946, stocks have risen an average of 17% in the year after a midterm. And if you measure from the yearly midterm lows, the results are even better. From their lows, stocks jumped an average of 32% over the next 12 months. For perspective, that’s more than double the average performance for stocks in all years. We’re also entering the third year of a presidential term, which is historically the strongest year for stocks."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/marke...ZiQ?ocid=ientp
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
Elections don't have to be about party and personalities. They can be about ideas. Do you believe that government should be bigger and take greater control of our lives because most people cannot manage themselves? Do you believe that government should be smaller and get the heck out of our lives because we can manage ourselves better and more efficiently?

If the Democrats were about smaller government, I would be a raging Democrat.

What does history tell us about big vs. small government? What happened when Trump pulled excessive government regulation out of the path of business? Doesn't everybody win in that scenario?

I'm voting on the ideas behind the candidates. I think everyone wins when the right ideas are put into action. I don't care who it is that pushes the good ideas. I will support them. This is bigger than personalities. This is about supporting things that work and strengthen the country.

Congress is a team sport right now, for better or worse. If there is a President who I believe has good ideas and a good track record on delivering them, I don't want to hamstring his ability to keep doing good things, so I will vote for people who will support his good ideas and make them law. Nothing frustrates me more than do-nothing government. The country can only go on cruise control so long before it needs to have good law and sensible spending.
Except the Republicans are for bigger government as well - just bigger in the the things they like vs. the Dems.

Don't believe me? The deficit has exploded since the GOP took over in 2016. That is not the definition of smaller.

Libertarians are the only party that believes in a smaller government. They may be too "drastic" in their approach/explanation, but they really do believe in smaller.
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by IAFlyer View Post
Except the Republicans are for bigger government as well - just bigger in the the things they like vs. the Dems.

Don't believe me? The deficit has exploded since the GOP took over in 2016. That is not the definition of smaller.

Libertarians are the only party that believes in a smaller government. They may be too "drastic" in their approach/explanation, but they really do believe in smaller.
As soon as something better offers itself up as a candidate for office, I am all over it. Until then, I am going to have to pick from the best offered. I am all for changing Congress to be more conservative in spending, in every way. That has to happen at the primary level, IMO. What is being offered on the Liberal/Progressive side of most tickets is more "free stuff" (translation = 50% tax rate), in huge chunks. I'll pass on that, thank you.

And big government is more than just $$. It's intruding on our Bill of Rights. It's the State taking more control of our lives and regulating us as bureaucrats see fit. In that respect, there is a huge difference in the parties as they currently stand.

The Liberal approach to our rights is just a bad idea, IMO. I don't vote for bad ideas.

I want the Republicans to be more fiscally responsible and differentiate themselves from Liberal spending policies as well. That will require more fiscal maturity from the voting public to make it a reality

Last edited by Fudd; 11-06-2018 at 01:02 PM..
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Old 11-06-2018, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by IAFlyer View Post
Except the Republicans are for bigger government as well - just bigger in the the things they like vs. the Dems.

Don't believe me? The deficit has exploded since the GOP took over in 2016. That is not the definition of smaller.

Libertarians are the only party that believes in a smaller government. They may be too "drastic" in their approach/explanation, but they really do believe in smaller.
Since the Republicans have not had 60 votes in the Senate, how could they have cut the deficit?
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Old 11-06-2018, 04:14 PM
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Tax bill

Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Since the Republicans have not had 60 votes in the Senate, how could they have cut the deficit?
Jack, how was the tax bill passed?
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Old 11-06-2018, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
Jack, how was the tax bill passed?
Reconciliation has it's limits, from what I have read. The use of it for the tax bill blocked it out from a 2nd use for the rest of that fiscal year, I believe.
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Old 11-06-2018, 06:46 PM
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I think the rules regarding budget bills are complex and depend on what it contains and if it contains deficits.

My understanding is that anything that affects medicare or social security needs 60 votes.
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Old 11-06-2018, 07:51 PM
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OK

Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
Reconciliation has it's limits, from what I have read. The use of it for the tax bill blocked it out from a 2nd use for the rest of that fiscal year, I believe.
Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
I think the rules regarding budget bills are complex and depend on what it contains and if it contains deficits.

My understanding is that anything that affects medicare or social security needs 60 votes.
Got it. Thanks.
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Old 11-06-2018, 10:46 PM
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Gridlock

Braun projected winner over Donnelly in Senate race. Republicans plus one in Senate.

Democrats projected to take control of the House.
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Old 11-07-2018, 02:51 AM
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With the Dems now controlling the purse strings, I'm excited to see what cuts they have on the table to get our spending under control. Whatever it is, I'm already in agreement. Hack away. No amount is too much. We are counting on you.
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Old 11-07-2018, 10:17 AM
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So Trump had a perfect record of wins where he focused his time and appearances. That is the "Trump Effect". Wish he could have turned some of those Dem house races, but he cannot turn water into wine.

Rumor is Trump already talked to Pelosi on the phone last night. Hopefully he did more than give her a recommendation on a plastic surgeon.

On a serious note I have noticed lately Pelosi losing her words and thoughts. Maybe a reason not to let her lead.
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Old 11-07-2018, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post

On a serious note I have noticed lately Pelosi losing her words and thoughts. Maybe a reason not to let her lead.
She lost her mind during the Obama administration in some of the comments she made and her thought process was just as bizarre then as I believe it will be in the future.

Within the Dem party in the house there has been a number of times in the last few years (even before Trump) that she has been challenged by her own members. Especially after the midterms during Obama's time.
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Old 11-07-2018, 12:55 PM
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Texas Poll Worker Tells Undercover Reporter They've Allowed 'Tons' Of DACA Recipients To Vote

Texas Poll Worker Tells Undercover Reporter They've Allowed 'Tons' Of DACA Recipients To Vote.

James O'Keefe's Project Veritas released an undercover sting video on Tuesday from a polling station in Texas that appears to show an election official saying that they've had 'tons' of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) recipients voting in the election.

"Right. It doesn’t matter that he’s not a citizen?" the PV journalist replied, adding that she had heard on the internet that he could not vote.
"No, Don’t pay any attention to that. Bring him up here," the official said.
Another woman, who appeared to be an election official, said that there was not an issue with DACA recipients voting, saying, "we got a lot of 'em."​
"You've got a lot of them?" the journalist asked.
"Mmhmm," the woman replied. "From early voter. We've got tons of them. Tons of DACA voters. Okay."

https://www.dailywire.com/news/38043...aign=position1
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Old 11-08-2018, 10:36 AM
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85 year old Ginsburg in hospital

85 year old Ginsburg has fallen and broken three ribs. She has been admitted to the hospital.

https://twitter.com/AP?ref_src=twsrc...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

https://www.foxnews.com/us/supreme-c...3-ribs-in-fall
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Old 11-08-2018, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
85 year old Ginsburg has fallen and broken three ribs. She has been admitted to the hospital.

https://twitter.com/AP?ref_src=twsrc...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

https://www.foxnews.com/us/supreme-c...3-ribs-in-fall
Rumor is it is for a party change operation.
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Old 11-08-2018, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
With the Dems now controlling the purse strings, I'm excited to see what cuts they have on the table to get our spending under control. Whatever it is, I'm already in agreement. Hack away. No amount is too much. We are counting on you.

Well their fiscal stiff upper lip from the campaign lasted all of 36hrs. They are going to propose a $1T infrastructure package.


We must break up this 2 party cartel or eventually all roads run out of pavement.
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
85 year old Ginsburg has fallen and broken three ribs. She has been admitted to the hospital.

https://twitter.com/AP?ref_src=twsrc...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

https://www.foxnews.com/us/supreme-c...3-ribs-in-fall
I wish I were making this up but it is being reported that people are so worried about RBG they are calling the hospital and offering body parts to keep her alive until 2020!!
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:39 AM
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The latest Rasmussen shows the President's approval rating among Blacks at 40%.
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Old 11-10-2018, 01:13 PM
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"Trump's full quote to CNN's Abby Phillip, while glaring and shaking his finger at her: “What a stupid question that is. What a stupid question. But I watch you a lot, you ask a lot of stupid questions."

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1060917009666457601

Could you even begin to imagine the outcry on this board if Obama said anything remotely like this?



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...68803218948096

"There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!"

This guy is so stupid it boggles the mind. Moron.
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Old 11-10-2018, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by zmz723 View Post



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...68803218948096

"There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!"
.

Why do liberals have such a hard time handling the truth? or telling the truth for that matter.
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Old 11-10-2018, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Why do liberals have such a hard time handling the truth? or telling the truth for that matter.
Trump's statement is BS in regards to the Malibu fire. Here is what that area (which includes Pepperdine U) looks like:



This has much more to do with climate change, which of course, Trump considers a fairy tale.
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Old 11-10-2018, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post

This has much more to do with climate change, which of course, Trump considers a fairy tale.
And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, winner of the 2018 dumbest comment on UDPride contest.
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Old 11-10-2018, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mich Flyer View Post
Texas Poll Worker Tells Undercover Reporter They've Allowed 'Tons' Of DACA Recipients To Vote.

James O'Keefe's Project Veritas released an undercover sting video on Tuesday from a polling station in Texas that appears to show an election official saying that they've had 'tons' of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) recipients voting in the election.

"Right. It doesn’t matter that he’s not a citizen?" the PV journalist replied, adding that she had heard on the internet that he could not vote.
"No, Don’t pay any attention to that. Bring him up here," the official said.
Another woman, who appeared to be an election official, said that there was not an issue with DACA recipients voting, saying, "we got a lot of 'em."​
"You've got a lot of them?" the journalist asked.
"Mmhmm," the woman replied. "From early voter. We've got tons of them. Tons of DACA voters. Okay."

https://www.dailywire.com/news/38043...aign=position1
It appears that this has spurred 2 investigations - one into this accusation and the other in Project Veritas breaking the law.

https://thehill.com/policy/technolog...-broke-the-law
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill202 View Post
It appears that this has spurred 2 investigations - one into this accusation and the other in Project Veritas breaking the law.

https://thehill.com/policy/technolog...-broke-the-law
They don't like having their illegal actions exposed, do they?
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Old 11-11-2018, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Why do liberals have such a hard time handling the truth? or telling the truth for that matter.
Take a look at these pictures: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...ldqpfp#4ldqpfp

US citizens are dead. Firefighters are doing everything they possibly can. The guy can't express any hint of sympathy or support. But he can send thousands of troops to the border for a political stunt.

Trump is absolute human garbage

Last edited by zmz723; 11-11-2018 at 01:49 AM..
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Old 11-11-2018, 02:06 AM
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Next thing you know Trump will go golfing after a presser involving a beheading of an American journalist.

The habitual selective outrage by progressives and conservatives is why both parties and their supporters ruin it for the rest of us.
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Old 11-11-2018, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by zmz723 View Post
Take a look at these pictures: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...ldqpfp#4ldqpfp

US citizens are dead. Firefighters are doing everything they possibly can. The guy can't express any hint of sympathy or support. But he can send thousands of troops to the border for a political stunt.

Trump is absolute human garbage
If you cannot give us facts, just call names, that will convince us.
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  #1684  
Old 11-11-2018, 05:53 PM
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Gee, now that Mid-term elections are over the Caravan “invasion” doesn’t seem to be a big deal anymore:

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...&ICID=ref_fark

$200 million waste of time
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Old 11-11-2018, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Gee, now that Mid-term elections are over the Caravan “invasion” doesn’t seem to be a big deal anymore:

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...&ICID=ref_fark

$200 million waste of time
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Good lord, you all ***** when he talks about the caravan, now your *****ing because he is not talking about the caravan. Which do you all want?

Relax and enjoy life Swampy, we all did in your absence. Sadly we knew the silence was too good to be true and your back.
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Old 11-11-2018, 06:08 PM
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The “Caravan” was a political stunt that cost taxpayers $200 million, intended to stop the “Blue Wave.” It has yet to materialize and did nothing to impact the Mid-terms.
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Old 11-11-2018, 06:09 PM
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He must be out of refills on his prescriptions. Oh well, It was nice while it lasted.
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Mad Props to Monster Man For This Totally Excellent Post:
ClaytonFlyerFan (11-11-2018)
  #1688  
Old Yesterday, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
The “Caravan” was a political stunt that cost taxpayers $200 million, intended to stop the “Blue Wave.” It has yet to materialize and did nothing to impact the Mid-terms.
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Why did Trump pull the troops from the Border? Is he going to let them in? Nah baby, nah. Just because the "Mainline" Media has stopped coverage, the Caravan has not gone away, yet. Stay tuned, because as soon as they are confronted, the libs will be all over it, like cockroaches on a piece of toast.

US intel says the Caravan is a political stunt by liberals, mainly Central American liberals.
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Old Yesterday, 04:39 PM
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I guess the "caravan", funded by progressive activist groups are all fleeing "spit-hole" countries like El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras, , but you can't call them "spit-holes", can you, even if they are.
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