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03-29-2015, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin
Even if UD beat Oklahoma (which would have been great to get back-to-back Sweet 16s), MSU would have beat us.
Yes, I know there is always a chance, but would have been a real long-shot. MSU is in the zone.
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Travis Trice and Valentine are the two key players on MSU. Trice has been especially effective at breaking down the defense. I would have liked to have had him for four years as Flyer.
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03-30-2015, 11:32 AM
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Gonzaga had their chances down the stretch vs. Duke...several open outside jump shots were off the mark, and IMO Gonzaga should have gotten the ball into the low post more, Karnowski, 7'1" 288 pounds, and the 6'10" Russian/Ukrainian kid Sabonis were eating up Duke in the low post.
I thought Gonzaga got out-coached down the stretch.
That was a winnable game for them.
Still no Final 4 appearance for them.
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03-30-2015, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Gonzaga had their chances down the stretch vs. Duke...several open outside jump shots were off the mark, and IMO Gonzaga should have gotten the ball into the low post more, Karnowski, 7'1" 288 pounds, and the 6'10" Russian/Ukrainian kid Sabonis were eating up Duke in the low post.
I thought Gonzaga got out-coached down the stretch.
That was a winnable game for them.
Still no Final 4 appearance for them.
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Same story for Gonzaga women. Leading by 17 points they couldn't inbounds the ball and blew the lead. definetly out coached down the stretch. She didn't even call timeout till it was too late.
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03-30-2015, 08:24 PM
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I was out and about...saw on tv that the UD women were up 1 at half vs. UConn.
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03-30-2015, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I was out and about...saw on tv that the UD women were up 1 at half vs. UConn.
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I heard that, too
Alas, they had to play two halves . . .
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03-30-2015, 11:06 PM
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Monday's results
3/30/15
Alas, the Flyers will not be playing in April (this year).
South Park Tavern was rockin' tonight, as Flyer fans were treated to a show of grit and determination by the women's team as they took on the UConn juggernaut. The better team prevailed, but the Dayton players left the court with their heads held high:
7) Dayton 70 @ 1) Connecticut 91
In the final Elite Eight game:
2) Tennessee 48 @ 1) Maryland 58
Tennessee took 23 threes (almost 1/3 their shots) and made four. As a side effect of settling for jump shots, they shot one free throw (missed). Maryland scored 11 points at the line - more than the margin of victory.
Lastly, in the first game of the CBI playoff:
Louisiana-Monroe (Sun Belt) 58 @ Loyola-Chicago (MVC) 65
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03-31-2015, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark
I heard that, too
Alas, they had to play two halves . . .
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I don't follow women's basketball.
I was in Las Vegas several years ago, and I saw that the point spread on a women's Final Four game was 30 points. I thought that there was no way that the favorite would ever cover that spread, I thought that spread amount was nuts, so I placed a bet on the underdog at a sports book.
You guessed it, the favorite won by more than 30 points, and I lost the money I placed on the bet. Crazy point spreads and final scores.
The women have absolutely no problem running the score up on each other. If you ran the score up like that in a men's game, there would probably be a brawl.
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04-01-2015, 12:14 AM
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Tuesday scores
3/31/15
NIT semifinals in Madison Square Garden:
2) Miami (FL) (ACC) 60 @ 1) Temple (American) 57
Chasson Randle overcame foul trouble to score 24 points and become Stanford's all-time leading scorer:
2) Stanford (Pac-12) 67 @ 1) Old Dominion (C-USA) 60
In the CIT semifinals, the host team won both matches:
Tennessee-Martin (OVC) 66 @ Evansville (MVC) 79
NJIT (Independent) 61 @ Northern Arizona (Big Sky) 68
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04-02-2015, 12:47 AM
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Wednesday night
4/1/15
In the women's NIT semifinals (campus sites):
West Virginia outscores Temple 13-5 in overtime
Temple (American) 58 @ West Virginia (Big 12) 66 (OT)
UCLA with a road win
UCLA (Pac-12) 69 @ Michigan (Big 10) 65
In men's action, Loyola-Chicago sweeps Louisiana-Monroe 2-0 to take the CBI title:
Loyola-Chicago (MVC) 63 @ Louisiana-Monroe (Sun Belt) 62
- For the second straight game, Loyola shot over 50 percent from the field. It hit 54.5 percent against one of the nation's top-10 field-goal percentage defenses. -
http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400787104
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04-03-2015, 12:13 AM
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And then there were four
4/2/15
With the conclusion of the NIT and CIT, only the NCAA final four men's teams are still playing.
Thursday results:
NIT finals - New York, NY
2) Stanford (Pac-12) 66 @ 2) Miami (ACC) 64 (OT)
CIT Finals - Evansville, IN
Northern Arizona (Big Sky) 65 @ Evansville (MVC) 71
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04-03-2015, 02:19 AM
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Stanford had a lot of their Sweet 16 team back. Another point in how well Archie coached in the 2014-2015 season.
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04-04-2015, 11:31 PM
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And then there were two
4/4/15
NCAA Tournament semifinals (Indianapolis, IN):
7) Michigan State (27-12) 61 @ 1) Duke 81
1) Wisconsin 71 @ 1) Kentucky (38-1) 64
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04-04-2015, 11:34 PM
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I SO hope that the Badgers kick Duke's blue-blood @$$ on Monday night!
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04-04-2015, 11:39 PM
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Did you watch that Geno? It was at least "watchable", right?
Awesome job Badgers! I just wish I was 40 years younger and in Madison tonight...
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04-05-2015, 11:28 PM
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Women's final four
4/5/15
Women's NCAA Tournament final four (Tampa, FL):
1) South Carolina (34-3) 65 @ 1) Notre Dame 66
Freshman Kathryn Westbeld (Kettering Fairmont) with four points and six rebounds in 20 minutes for the Irish
1) Maryland (34-3) 58 @ 1) Connecticut 81
- the Flyers did slightly better -
Notre Dame will meet UConn for the women's title Tuesday at 8:30 (ESPN)
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04-06-2015, 10:07 PM
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CBS just did the "interview the coach on the way to the locker room" segment with Coach Blue Blood. It was hysterical to hear him b!+ching about how Wis only got called for 2 personals. Guess SOMEONE is going to be making a call to the head of officials at halftime.
On Wisconsin!
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04-06-2015, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
CBS just did the "interview the coach on the way to the locker room" segment with Coach Blue Blood. It was hysterical to hear him b!+ching about how Wis only got called for 2 personals. Guess SOMEONE is going to be making a call to the head of officials at halftime.
On Wisconsin!
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I heard that. Did I really here Coach K say they are trying to go inside to draw the foul, or something to that affect?
Hey coach, you might just want to check the NCAA stats before putting your game plan together. These boys from Wisconsin are very well coached and pretty darn smart, lead the country in fewest team fouls per game.
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball...rrent/team/286
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04-06-2015, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
I heard that. Did I really here Coach K say they are trying to go inside to draw the foul, or something to that affect?
Hey coach, you might just want to check the NCAA stats before putting your game plan together. These boys from Wisconsin are very well coached and pretty darn smart, lead the country in fewest team fouls per game.
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball...rrent/team/286
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Well, his whining has obviously worked, to a degree. The Badgers now have 10 fouls this half, after only having 2 in the first half. And Duke hasn't even been called for their 7th one yet this half. Friggin' whiner!
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04-06-2015, 11:10 PM
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The older I get, the more I can't stand Rat Face Sr.
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04-06-2015, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
CBS just did the "interview the coach on the way to the locker room" segment with Coach Blue Blood. It was hysterical to hear him b!+ching about how Wis only got called for 2 personals. Guess SOMEONE is going to be making a call to the head of officials at halftime.
On Wisconsin!
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Yep. The call went in. Duke STILL has only been whistled for 5 fouls this half.
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04-06-2015, 11:23 PM
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Just an absolute abysmal job by the refs in the second half.
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04-06-2015, 11:23 PM
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Sickening. Just sickening. The better team lost.
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04-06-2015, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ud69
Just an absolute abysmal job by the refs in the second half.
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Couldn't agree more, ud69. Wisconsin wuz robbed.
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04-06-2015, 11:31 PM
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Not sure I like the foul there at the end. I didn't really care for any of the final four teams anyway. Can't wait for next year when the Flyers will be there (wishful thinking maybe , but why not us?)
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04-06-2015, 11:42 PM
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It's Duke
4/6/15
Duke wins it at the free throw line:
1) Wisconsin (36-4) 63 @ 1) Duke (35-4) 68
Free throws 16-6 Duke . . .
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04-06-2015, 11:54 PM
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Bo Ryan just politely called-out the refs in the postgame interview. Also a point of discussion among the "studio" crew (Gumbel, etc.). The NCAA should be embarrassed at that God-awful display of officiating.
Oh, yeah - and I didn't see a single clip of anyone representing UD during "One Shining Moment", either. Bunch of $&%}*!!
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04-07-2015, 12:10 AM
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I watched about the last 10 minutes of the game, and by my count for that 10 minutes, Duke overall had an advantage of about 4 calls, but Wisconsin did get a couple of breaks, but again, Duke had a +4 advantage IMO, but at least for that part of the game, I thought Duke played better, they scored when they had to, Wisconsin did not.
But no question, a better job of officiating could have changed the outcome. Duke definitely had the officiating advantage.
Last edited by ud2; 04-07-2015 at 12:43 AM..
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04-07-2015, 12:14 AM
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That high ball screen was murder.
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04-07-2015, 08:39 AM
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As an ex-official, and someone who watched the entire game with no skin in the game, I am shocked that people are criticizing the officials. They missed a call here or there for both teams, and certainly let them play most of the time, but overall an excellent bunch. I moan about officials in Dayton games, when I am biased, but they blow a lot less calls than any of us think. If Duke wants to complain that the officials took their two stars out of half of the game, the solution is the same as for Pollard... don't foul.
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04-07-2015, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72
As an ex-official, and someone who watched the entire game with no skin in the game, I am shocked that people are criticizing the officials. They missed a call here or there for both teams, and certainly let them play most of the time, but overall an excellent bunch. I moan about officials in Dayton games, when I am biased, but they blow a lot less calls than any of us think. If Duke wants to complain that the officials took their two stars out of half of the game, the solution is the same as for Pollard... don't foul.
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False.
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04-07-2015, 09:04 AM
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They missed a player stepping out of bounds on a play where Duke scored a basket to go up 3, then with Wisconsin down 5 they missed overturning another OOB call on replay that would've given the ball to Wisconsin. All with under 3 minutes left. I would say those calls had a direct and vital impact on the game and who won.
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04-07-2015, 09:05 AM
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the last 5 minutes, Wisconsin looked panicked and tight to me. Duke looked confident and agressive. In my book, Wisconsin choked that one away.
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04-07-2015, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by priceg75
They missed a player stepping out of bounds on a play where Duke scored a basket to go up 3, then with Wisconsin down 5 they missed overturning another OOB call on replay that would've given the ball to Wisconsin. All with under 3 minutes left. I would say those calls had a direct and vital impact on the game and who won.
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Excellent point...and on that same out of bounds play, which he clearly stepped on the line, the Duke player dragged his pivot foot to try to stay in bounds.
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04-07-2015, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by AC91
the last 5 minutes, Wisconsin looked panicked and tight to me. Duke looked confident and agressive. In my book, Wisconsin choked that one away.
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I would agree, but the officials sure as sh...ugar didn't give Wiscy any help.
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04-07-2015, 10:06 AM
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To Glen Clark:
Thanks for working this interesting, and I am sure time consuming, post which now has 16 pages. There are no more Games Of Note upcoming. Take the rest of the Spring, Summer and mid Fall off so you can come back well rested in mid November ( I guess).
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04-07-2015, 10:46 AM
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Bo Ryan has a short memory.
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04-07-2015, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by AC91
the last 5 minutes, Wisconsin looked panicked and tight to me. Duke looked confident and agressive. In my book, Wisconsin choked that one away.
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That may be what you expect it to look like when "they" allow one team to play aggressive kamkazi defense - no harm no foul; and then call the other team for fouls whenever the first team goes inside he arc - and are almost running away from the other team to avoid fouls. They put Dooook in the double bonus inside of 10 minutes into the second half....... It is not so much what they call on one end, but what they don't call on the other. Sure would have been nice if it were the same on both ends.................
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04-07-2015, 11:25 AM
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Let's just say the officials missed a lot of calls in the Final4, the clook violation, flaggarent 1 non call. Duke 54 fouls and opponents 108 during tourney food for thought
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04-07-2015, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Atlantic 10
Let's just say the officials missed a lot of calls in the Final4, the clook violation, flaggarent 1 non call.
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Let's also say none of the missed calls were intentional nor did any cost a team the win. Coaches lose games...not refs.
Originally Posted by Atlantic 10
Duke 54 fouls and opponents 108 during tourney food for thought
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Let's also say there is no rule, policy, memo, belief, desire or understanding that fouls should be evenly called. Losing teams foul at the end. Losing teams foul in the beginning, too. It's one of the reasons they lose.
In 2015, UD MADE 580 free throws...our opponents SHOT 582. Blame the refs? Only an idiot would.
In 2015, UD was called for 573 fouls...our opponents, 717. Why would anyone want to play us knowing the refs want us to win! Oh the humanity!
UGH!
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04-07-2015, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Let's also say none of the missed calls were intentional nor did any cost a team the win. Coaches lose games...not refs.
Let's also say there is no rule, policy, memo, belief, desire or understanding that fouls should be evenly called. Losing teams foul at the end. Losing teams foul in the beginning, too. It's one of the reasons they lose.
In 2015, UD MADE 580 free throws...our opponents SHOT 582. Blame the refs? Only an idiot would.
In 2015, UD was called for 573 fouls...our opponents, 717. Why would anyone want to play us knowing the refs want us to win! Oh the humanity!
UGH!
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Stop...
If I am to buy in to this, how can I blame the refs for every loss? Even when the losses are not ours.
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04-07-2015, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer68
To Glen Clark:
Thanks for working this interesting, and I am sure time consuming, post which now has 16 pages. There are no more Games Of Note upcoming. Take the rest of the Spring, Summer and mid Fall off so you can come back well rested in mid November ( I guess).
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Thanks! (but I plan on posting the women's score tonight )
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04-07-2015, 01:50 PM
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Since our season has been over for 2 weeks and the scores of any and all games no longer affect our SOS, RPI or rankings, shouldn't this thread be moved to 'off-topic gibberish'. I'm sure GlenN would agree since he's the expert...
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04-07-2015, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Let's also say none of the missed calls were intentional nor did any cost a team the win. Coaches lose games...not refs.
Let's also say there is no rule, policy, memo, belief, desire or understanding that fouls should be evenly called. Losing teams foul at the end. Losing teams foul in the beginning, too. It's one of the reasons they lose.
In 2015, UD MADE 580 free throws...our opponents SHOT 582. Blame the refs? Only an idiot would.
In 2015, UD was called for 573 fouls...our opponents, 717. Why would anyone want to play us knowing the refs want us to win! Oh the humanity!
UGH!
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Sorry, rollo, but I'm going to have to agree to disagree here. Yes, bad coaching and bad play lose most games, but bad officiating can cost a team a game, too. That's especially true if, for any reason (a) a bad call happens at a crucial juncture of the game, or (b) one team seems to get the benefit of the doubt from the refs more than the other team does. It may not happen much, but it does happen. And IMHO, it happened last night.
To your point of "...Losing teams foul at the end. Losing teams foul in the beginning, too. It's one of the reasons they lose." - very true. But then explain to me how Wisconsin was whistled for 2 fouls in the first half, but 13 in the second half. I mean, if losing teams foul at both the beginning and the end of a game, then why did Wiscy get called for 11 more fouls from one half to the next, on the same court, in the same game?
I need to note that only 2 of those 13 second half fouls happened in the last 3 minutes of the game. The other 11 happened in the first 17 minutes of the 2nd half, while Duke was being whistled for only 5 fouls of their own (6 in all for the half), despite playing aggressive defense. Did Wisconsin just miraculously become that much more rough/aggressive/clumsy after halftime? Possibly. Was Duke really that much more aggressive offensively in the half, to draw that many more Wisconsin fouls? Possibly. Or, was something just that much different about the officiating? Possibly. I contend that, of the 3 options I mentioned, it was the inconsistency in the officiating that made the greatest difference in the foul count disparity from one half to the next, and that this disparity made a difference in the outcome of the game.
Again - we'll need to agree to disagree about this.
Last edited by T-Bone 84; 04-07-2015 at 03:39 PM..
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04-07-2015, 03:52 PM
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*i'm getting my OHSAA license renewed for this fall...the itch to return is too strong!
Basketball isn't like Hunger Games where the eye-in-the-sky changes the rules to keep the audience locked into the game. What's a foul in game 1 is a foul in game 40...it's that simple.
Adjustments are made throughout a game. It's why you can score 24 in the first half and 44 in the second. And vise versa. Zones, 3's, run clock, take a quick shot...beat the ball down low...these are all calls that are made from the bench as the game progresses and affect how a game is called.
I have no idea why there was a foul discrepancy as pointed out by you, nor do I care. Why? Because I know how these guys are trained and how they think. And I know what's at stake for them ($$$$). Consistency is their goal and IMRO, they do a decent job of it. Are they perfect? No. But they get 98% of the calls right. Which is about 95% more than the fan-in-the-stand would get correct. Which is why I don't understand the complaining. In all seriousness, how many people who regularly 'booo' and complain have ever read a YMCA, CYO, OHSAA* or NCAA rulebook? With that in mind, why do so many people think they know so much about something they've never studied...ever. Just asking.
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04-07-2015, 04:15 PM
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I thought:
Duke breaks:
Duke flop, Duke player jumped into Wisconsin defender busting his jaw on a drive, Duke fingertip touched ball before it went out of bounds, Duke player stepped on end line, Duke charge, and another Duke charge, plus one more I don't remember.
Wisconsin breaks:
Jackson used his leg to block to prevent a steal on a loose ball near half court, Wisconsin player hit the leg of a Duke 3 point shooter, and Wisconsin scored after the shot clock expired.
I had it at +4 Duke.
And that was just the last 10 minutes.
Last edited by ud2; 04-07-2015 at 04:19 PM..
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04-07-2015, 06:10 PM
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After reading this thread in the morning, I said to my brother, who was rooting for Wisconsin, "Did you think the refereeing was unfair last night. Some W fans are raising the issue." He responded, " Heck no, there were some inconsistency on charges and blocks, but nothing that favored either team. What are these people talking about?"
On Rollo's point that UD had less fouls than opponents this year, we had to, because we had only 7 players. I think we all would say that. I guess Duke would play a similar defensive style with only 8 players, and two in first half foul trouble.
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04-07-2015, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72
After reading this thread in the morning, I said to my brother, who was rooting for Wisconsin, "Did you think the refereeing was unfair last night. Some W fans are raising the issue." He responded, " Heck no, there were some inconsistency on charges and blocks, but nothing that favored either team. What are these people talking about?"
On Rollo's point that UD had less fouls than opponents this year, we had to, because we had only 7 players. I think we all would say that. I guess Duke would play a similar defensive style with only 8 players, and two in first half foul trouble.
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Jack72, I see what you're saying, and I agree with the point that you generally foul less when you have fewer players. But IMHO, it didn't seem as if Duke, as a team, adjusted their defensive aggressiveness downward as a result of having a short bench. If anything, it seemed like they picked-up their defensive pressure in the second half. I'd have to go back to the film to see exactly which Duke-initiated contact was missed by the stripes (as compared to the Wisconsin-initiated contact that was called by the stripes). But it seemed as if the overwhelming majority of the borderline calls went Duke's way (and I remember specifically a "block" called against #13 for Wis, where he (a) had position and (b) was backing away from the Duke player - one of the bad calls IMHO), and that's simply the "Coach K Whose Feces Has No Aroma" factor. Just my opinion.
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04-07-2015, 08:14 PM
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One other point that could have contributed....I was only able to catch part of the second half on TV (and I listeed to more on the radio) as I was coming back from vacation, but in the second half Duke looked to be a much quicker team. i thought WI looked slow and couldn't keep their Duke counterparts in front of them. quickness disparity can surely cause fouling....
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04-07-2015, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by AC91
One other point that could have contributed....I was only able to catch part of the second half on TV (and I listeed to more on the radio) as I was coming back from vacation, but in the second half Duke looked to be a much quicker team. i thought WI looked slow and couldn't keep their Duke counterparts in front of them. quickness disparity can surely cause fouling....
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After Wisconsin went up nine with thirteen minutes left, the Duke freshman Grayson Allen went off - he put the Dookies on his back and carried them. He hit a couple of jumpers and then attacked the rim relentlessly - drawing contact and forcing the official's hand. Half of those fouls were offense - or no call - but as usual the officials rewarded the aggressor. Once the Dookies regained their composure their defense won the game (along with their 80% free throw shooting).
Though he only averaged 4.4 ppg this season, Grayson Allen was one of the nation's top high school prospects last year. Last night we saw why.
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04-07-2015, 08:53 PM
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Here's why the refs missed the Duke tip-out-of-bounds...
"All four of our officials were involved in the review -- Jeff Clark was our standby," John Adams told SiriusXM College Sports Tuesday. "We never saw on our monitor what everybody saw at home, if you can believe that."
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...s-video-replay
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04-07-2015, 10:37 PM
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Last college ball of the season
4/6/15
NCAA Women's Finals:
1) Notre Dame (36-3) 53 @ 1) Connecticut (38-1) 63
The Flyers are one of two teams (the other being Stanford) to win a half against the Huskies this season.
That's a wrap - thanks for reading and posting - Glen
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04-08-2015, 07:56 AM
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Now you can officially take the rest of the Spring, Summer and part of Fall off.
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04-08-2015, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer68
Now you can officially take the rest of the Spring, Summer and part of Fall off.
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What? No lurking?
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