BIG EAST 7 Meet And Make Big Announcement!

[mikeymo85]

Miami valley hospital leased parking for employees at the fairground. That came to an end last year. I believe it was a price issue for MVH. I also believe MVH tried to buy the land and was turned down. I got the impression there was no love loss between the two parties. MVH ended up buying what was the walnut hills bar in my day to demolish and build parking garages.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

At one time, 10 years or so ago, wasn't it reported that Montgomery County was considering selling the fairgrounds property, with the goal being building a new fairgrounds in the western part of the county, closer to the agriculture base and 4H clubs that county fairs originated from? Or did I dream this had happened?

I would think they could build a real nice new facility with what the current property could be worth to UD /MVH.

[Fudd]

I thought this was interesting from the A10 board:

                           Total         Men's 
                        Athletic     Basketball
No. School                Spending     Spending  
'Catholic 7' average:   $22,628,955    $6,229,612
 
1. Butler              $14,738,745    $3,924,026 
2. Dayton              $20,790,628    $3,978,866 
3. DePaul              $24,212,027    $6,657,771 
4. Georgetown          $25,681,992   $10,015,207  
5. Marquette           $26,504,896    $9,941,583 
6. Providence          $22,550,248    $6,110,824 
7. Seton Hall          $20,886,250    $6,401,383
  Siena               $12,229,041    $2,293,234
8. St. John's          $33,644,628    $7,289,171 
9. St. Louis           $14,200,727    $3,101,169 
10. Villanova           $30,934,099    $6,398,678 
11. Xavier              $14,774,269    $4,707,053
 
Source: US Department of Education 
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

It looks like we spend the lowest percentage of our athletic budget on mens basketball in that group. Do you think we need to boost those numbers if we get in the new league?

[MD Flyer Pride]

Originally Posted by Fudd I thought this was interesting from the A10 board: Total Men's Athletic Basketball No. School Spending  Spending  'Catholic 7' average: $22,628,955 $6,229,612 1. Butler $14,738,745 $3,924,026 2. Dayton $20,790,628 $3,978,866 3. DePaul $24,212,027 $6,657,771 4. Georgetown $25,681,992 $10,015,207 5. Marquette $26,504,896 $9,941,583 6. Providence $22,550,248 $6,110,824 7. Seton Hall $20,886,250 $6,401,383 Siena $12,229,041 $2,293,234 8. St. John's $33,644,628 $7,289,171 9. St. Louis $14,200,727 $3,101,169 10. Villanova $30,934,099 $6,398,678 11. Xavier $14,774,269 $4,707,053 Source: US Department of Education http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx It looks like we spend the lowest percentage of our athletic budget on mens basketball in that group. Do you think we need to boost those numbers if we get in the new league?

Good info! I thought we spent much more on our basketball budget then we do. I am not sure what it all means. Butler spends less and does better. DePaul, and others, spend more and do less. That might be a function of higher cost areas? Not sure.

Sometimes you do have to spend more to make more. Not always, though. Interesting.

[priceg75]

Have to imagine a lot of that money is coaching salaries. Seeing as we are going relatively cheap, I think that accounts for a good bit of the discrepancy. DePaul, however, hired away a coach from an ACC school... so they are not going cheap.

[m21eagle45]

but is it possible for Duke to eventually join the C7. If the current conference realignment goes as planned, The Big 10 will take 2 more ACC schools, the SEC will take two ACC schools, and the Big 12 will take the best remaining ACC and Big East Schools. Duke is not being mentioned in any of these conferences plans. With basketball being their big sport, does anyone see Duke putting its football in a lesser conference and joining the C7 for everything else? It has been reported in many of the ACC message boards and even UConn's message board that UNC and Virginia already have Big10 offers, and UNC also has an SEC offer. Would this move make sense for Duke and the C7 if Duke gets left out?

[Medford]

Unless they drop football completely, I'd say "not a chance" Duke would likely join forces with UConn, Cincy, Memphis and whomever is left in the ACC, which would still be a very solid hoops conference, and a step above wherever they could park their football program seperate from their basketball program (afterall, who wants their football program unless hoops comes along with it?)

[bobber]

IMO, as long as Duke has football (that is to say, forever) they will never join the C7.

It is a silly idea. And I realize you should never say never, but in this case it is OK to say it.

[bcross]

Originally Posted by priceg75 Have to imagine a lot of that money is coaching salaries. Seeing as we are going relatively cheap, I think that accounts for a good bit of the discrepancy. DePaul, however, hired away a coach from an ACC school... so they are not going cheap.

Also UD owns their arena and doesn't need to rent out a bigger arena like most of the C7 schools.

[FlyerFanatic08]

posted without comment:

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5238

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08 posted without comment: http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5238

This guy loses credibility in my book right away (for reasons other than a web site called "a jersey guy") His comments about 10 schools vs 12 schools and allowing for the opportunity to play more out of conference games makes no sense.

--12 schools with two 6 team divisions equates to 16 conference games
--10 schools with a true home/home every year equates to 18 conference games.

If the powers that be want to have more opportunities for high profile non conference games, they would elect to go with a 12 team conference, not 10.

I think Marquette is pushing for the 10 team conference. They want G'Town, Villanova, and St. Johns at home every year and really have a superior than thou attitude when it comes to UD. *******s...I hope we get in and spank them every year

[Medford]

that guy was the first to break the c7 departure story. Hope he's wrong about starting at 10, and UD not being included.

[Title_BU]

Originally Posted by springborofan I think Marquette is pushing for the 10 team conference. They want G'Town, Villanova, and St. Johns at home every year and really have a superior than thou attitude when it comes to UD. *******s...I hope we get in and spank them every year

I think its good news for UD...

Marquette really wants Creighton and as has been evident a while Richmond is desired by everyone else. Now, if you don't stop right now, you are pretty much guaranteed that they'd end up capitulating to Marquette for the one team. (which would lead to SLU too)

Good guess to that is that Marquette put their put down on Creighton vis-a-vis Dayton and they just said "pause" as compromise

Pausing gives UD time to make a case for being superior to Creighton. (I think SLU will get in at some point under either scenario)

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[bobber]

Read on another board that the Creighton president is on the Marquette board of trustees.

Hmmmm. Doesn't look good. Can you say,"fix" boys and girls?

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Medford that guy was the first to break the c7 departure story. Hope he's wrong about starting at 10, and UD not being included.

Just my opinion, but everything that this guy has written has pretty much been correct or ended up being correct later. I think this guy has a lot of credibility and has excellent sources.

The only hope seems to be that they choose UD over SLU somehow. And as Title BU indicated, if Creighton is in, then SLU is in too. You have to either hope for UD over SLU somehow, or hope they go to 14 teams and add UD as #13 or #14, or hope they stay at 10, and the A10 keeps Richmond and/or SLU.

Oh well, if this ends up being true, then the A10 will eventually need 4-6 replacements for Butler, Xavier, Charlotte, UMass, and maybe Richmond and/or SLU to get back to 14 teams.

Looking on the bright side, rollo may end up being happy with this outcome. You have to hope that UD can dominate the new A10.

Originally Posted by bobber Read on another board that the Creighton president is on the Marquette board of trustees. Hmmmm. Doesn't look good. Can you say,"fix" boys and girls?

I agree, this doesn't look good at all.

I guess this means that UD and VCU are out. It is going to be X, Butler, Richmond, Creighton,and SLU, correct? Oh well.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Massachusetts MASSACHUSETTS UMass Amherst, the flagship campus of the University of Massachusetts system, sits on nearly 1,450-acres in the scenic Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts, 90 miles from Boston and 175 miles from New York City. The campus provides a rich cultural environment in a rural setting close to major urban centers. UMass enrolls over 20,000 undergraduates and 5,000 post-grad students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Minutemen. Women's teams known as the Minutewomen. Sports achievements include NCAA Final Four appearances in men's basketball and women's soccer.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

	Charlotte CHARLOTTE UNC Charlotte is one of a generation of universities founded in metropolitan areas of the United States immediately after World War II in response to rising education demands generated by the war and its technology. Now a research intensive university, UNC Charlotte is the fourth largest of the 16 institutions within the University of North Carolina system and the largest institution in the Charlotte region. The university comprises seven professional colleges and currently offers 18 doctoral programs, 62 master’s degree programs and 90 bachelor’s degrees. More than 900 full-time faculty comprise the university’s academic departments and the 2007 fall enrollment exceeded 22,300 students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the 49ers.

[ud2]

Yes, the president of Creighton University is Timothy R. Lannon, S.J.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Lannon





Reverend Lannon is a member of the Marquette University Board of Trustees.



http://www.marquette.edu/about/leade...trustees.shtml


http://www.marquette.edu/about/leadership/lannon.shtml



Father Lannon was formerly the president of St. Joseph's University in Philadelphia from 2003-2011. I imagine that Dr. Curran knows Father Lannon.

[Viperstick]

Ok, if we're going to be left behind, then hope that Bernie McGlade is looking ahead at replacing the departed with quality programs. Below are in no particular order, but all bring decent basketball & good markets to the table without going too far out of our current footprint. Most have smaller endowments than UD or other A-10 programs.

- Belmont--private, smallish enrollment, good size (Nashville) market, respectable recent basketball success in a lower tier conference, plays in 5K quasi-arena (kind of like the place we played in the Old Spice Classic last year)
- George Mason--public, huge enrollment, solidifies huge (DC) market, good basketball w/Final Four appearance seven years ago, plays in a 10K arena (clone of UR's Robbins Center)
- Davidson--private, infintesimal enrollment, good size (Charlotte) market, good basketball w/three Elite Eight runs in its history, plays in 5K gym
- Charleston--public, average enrollment, smaller (Charleston) market, decent basketball in lower tier conference, plays in a 5K arena (like Belmont arena)

Other possibilities:

- Valpo--private, smaller enrollment, too far from Chicago market to provide much, decent basketball (likely to take over Horizon League juggernaut title from Butler), 5K arena
- Detroit--private (Catholic), smaller enrollment, huge market (Detroit, but questionable how much impact school has in that market), poor basketball, 8K arena
- Wichita State--public, large enrollment, smaller market (Wichita--far outside current geographic footprint), excellent basketball, 10K arena
- Missouri State--public, huge enrollment, small market (Springfield--far outside current geographic footprint, but could be travel partner for Wichita State), so-so basketball, 11K arena
- Murray State--public, medium enrollment, tiny market (Murray KY), outstanding basketball (though little advancement in NCAA tourney), 8.5K arena

To hell with Xavier, Butler, Richmond, & SLU.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

	Charlotte CHARLOTTE UNC Charlotte is one of a generation of universities founded in metropolitan areas of the United States immediately after World War II in response to rising education demands generated by the war and its technology. Now a research intensive university, UNC Charlotte is the fourth largest of the 16 institutions within the University of North Carolina system and the largest institution in the Charlotte region. The university comprises seven professional colleges and currently offers 18 doctoral programs, 62 master’s degree programs and 90 bachelor’s degrees. More than 900 full-time faculty comprise the university’s academic departments and the 2007 fall enrollment exceeded 22,300 students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the 49ers.

[Atlantic 10]

Richmond plays D1 football, I don't see it. That is why this conference is being form to get away from football

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Atlantic 10 Richmond plays D1 football, I don't see it. That is why this conference is being form to get away from football

Richmond plays FCS football not FBS football. I don't see Richmond's football team being an issue.

Dayton, Butler, Georgetown, and Villanova play FCS football too, and that doesn't seem to be a problem.

I'm hoping maybe Cincinnati and UConn join the c7 to minimize the A10's losses. But, Cincinnati and UConn seemed destined for the ACC eventually.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Chris R]

Originally Posted by ud2 Father Lannon was formerly the president of St. Joseph's University in Philadelphia from 2003-2011. I imagine that Dr. Curran knows Father Lannon.

They are very close actually.

[UDandBeer]

Originally Posted by ud2 Just my opinion, but everything that this guy has written has pretty much been correct or ended up being correct later. I think this guy has a lot of credibility and has excellent sources.

If I remember correctly, is this not the same guy who said UConn and Cincinnati were looking to join the C7? If his "sources" told him that, I would take everything he says with a grain of salt. Seems like someone who likes to throw out ridiculous claims to draw traffic to his website.

The only thing we've heard with any kind of consistency is that Butler and Xavier are in. The rest is pure speculation and we won't know what's true until an official announcement is made.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Bat'71]

In addition to Butler and X, a case can be made for including any one of several schools in the new league that the C7 are in the process of forming, and UD has as good a shot, if not better, than several of those that are most often mentioned. Obviously the thing that hurts Creighten the most is it's location and I don't think you can get around that no matter how hard you try. While the Blue Jays have done reasonably well with their athletic program, they really aren't much, if any, better than UD over the past 10-15 years and their national profile isn't any higher either. Yes, they are a Jesuit institution, but I wouldn't be surprised if that wouldn't work against them either; the Jezzies can be an insufferable lot and it isn't beyond the pail to think the other schools may believe they have more than enough Jesuit representation in their midst to last a lifetime.

The "jersy guy's" Posts can be entertaining, provocative and insightful, but I don't believe his latest Post adds anything more than throwing a wild card into the mix over who a tenth team could be...but even that (in the cold light of day) doesn't seem to hold much water. He would have seemed more credible if he added SLU over Creighten because, let's face it, what does Creighten really bring to the party that can possibly outweigh the handicap of it's location? His latest Post didn't really offer any new insight IMHO. To think that travel schedules don't matter (or are of minor importance), especially for non-revenue generating sports, or that the Sports Broadcasters input won't have a major impact on the decision making process is somewhat naive. In addition, if the reports are accurate about the differential between what a 10-team league will garner from broadcasters relative to a 12-team league ($30 vs. $40 Mil), it's kinda a no-brainer for the league to go with 12 schools ($3.0MM vs. $3.33MM); does anyone think these schools would leave $300K per year on the sidelines?

When it comes down to cold hard economic facts (take the emotion out of the equation or the perceptions/biases of fans at the respective schools), does Creighten (or SLU for that matter) add more value than UD, especially considering existing rivalries or logistics? I highly doubt it. Unless and until something more solid comes along or sources closer to home begin to waiver as to where we stand, articles like the latest one posted by "jersey guy" should continue to be viewed simply as one person's opinion with no greater validity than anyone else.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[CE80]

For TV purposes. SLU is better than UD and Creighton. UD vs. Creighton is a wash.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[dcflyer]

From today's Washington Post article about Georgetown's president:

DeGioia is tight-lipped about the contours of the conference that’s taking shape, acknowledging that it likely will consist of 12 members though may expand to 10 initially. According to others close to the process, the three to five new members need not be Catholic schools. And though its boundaries may extend west of the Mississippi, some “geographical coherence” is expected.

As for the essential criteria of the schools that will be added, DeGioia, a member of the reform-minded Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics, cites three: Schools that put the student-athletes’ interests first, both in the classroom and on the playing fields; school whose athletic departments are conducted with integrity; and schools that play exceptional basketball.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...e3d_story.html

[Windy City Flyer]

We can expect universities to align themselves. I agree there is a lot of opinions, and much of what we are discussing is just that. Do not for a minute discount a "Jesuit School" bias. Marquette, , Xavier, & Georgetown are Jesuit universities. They have their mark on education at both the HS and College level. Further iit is a very tight community. St Louis and Creighton are both Jesuit schools as well. This in my opinion may make Dayton a less attractive option when you compare us to SLU and Creighton.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[CE80]

On one hand if they go with 10 schools and we are not one of them it won't seem that bad because the A10 will still be pretty good. On the other hand everyone will be waiting for 2 more schools to leave at some point.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

if they're not taking us, i'd certainly prefer that they take richmond over slu or vcu. the a10 could still be a 3 bid conference. sju, vcu, slu, ud (yeah, i'm optimistic) and an annual surprise would be ok.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by dcflyer As for the essential criteria of the schools that will be added, DeGioia, a member of the reform-minded Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics, cites three: Schools that put the student-athletes’ interests first, both in the classroom and on the playing fields; school whose athletic departments are conducted with integrity; l

Wouldn't this exclude Xavier?

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[CE80]

All I know is that somebody's sources or friend of a freind, is full of s#%t.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UDandBeer If I remember correctly, is this not the same guy who said UConn and Cincinnati were looking to join the C7? If his "sources" told him that, I would take everything he says with a grain of salt. Seems like someone who likes to throw out ridiculous claims to draw traffic to his website. The only thing we've heard with any kind of consistency is that Butler and Xavier are in. The rest is pure speculation and we won't know what's true until an official announcement is made.

No, I don't remember him posting that, but I could be wrong.

And really, Cincinnati and Connecticut to the c7 IMO is not all that outlandish of a claim anyway. It sounds pretty reasonable and realistic to me. The big negative though obviously is that Cincinnati and Connecticut would always be looking to leave for the ACC.

Maybe I'm overreacting to this whole thing. I hope I'm wrong about UD being left out. I'm just getting a very bad feeling about this whole thing.

Originally Posted by Bat'71 In addition to Butler and X, a case can be made for including any one of several schools in the new league that the C7 are in the process of forming, and UD has as good a shot, if not better, than several of those that are most often mentioned. Obviously the thing that hurts Creighten the most is it's location and I don't think you can get around that no matter how hard you try. While the Blue Jays have done reasonably well with their athletic program, they really aren't much, if any, better than UD over the past 10-15 years and their national profile isn't any higher either. Yes, they are a Jesuit institution, but I wouldn't be surprised if that wouldn't work against them either; the Jezzies can be an insufferable lot and it isn't beyond the pail to think the other schools may believe they have more than enough Jesuit representation in their midst to last a lifetime. The "jersy guy's" Posts can be entertaining, provocative and insightful, but I don't believe his latest Post adds anything more than throwing a wild card into the mix over who a tenth team could be...but even that (in the cold light of day) doesn't seem to hold much water. He would have seemed more credible if he added SLU over Creighten because, let's face it, what does Creighten really bring to the party that can possibly outweigh the handicap of it's location? His latest Post didn't really offer any new insight IMHO. To think that travel schedules don't matter (or are of minor importance), especially for non-revenue generating sports, or that the Sports Broadcasters input won't have a major impact on the decision making process is somewhat naive. In addition, if the reports are accurate about the differential between what a 10-team league will garner from broadcasters relative to a 12-team league ($30 vs. $40 Mil), it's kinda a no-brainer for the league to go with 12 schools ($3.0MM vs. $3.33MM); does anyone think these schools would leave $300K per year on the sidelines? When it comes down to cold hard economic facts (take the emotion out of the equation or the perceptions/biases of fans at the respective schools), does Creighten (or SLU for that matter) add more value than UD, especially considering existing rivalries or logistics? I highly doubt it. Unless and until something more solid comes along or sources closer to home begin to waiver as to where we stand, articles like the latest one posted by "jersey guy" should continue to be viewed simply as one person's opinion with no greater validity than anyone else.

I disagree, I think Creighton's national rep, as far as basketball is concerned, is much stronger than UD's. Dana Altman had a great run at CU, he took CU to 7 NCAA's in the 90's and 2000's, and I think that puts CU well ahead of Dayton. CU averages like 16k/game too.

Even if they go to 12 teams, it is sounding like UD is out, so the $3 million vs. $3.33 million thing IMO doesn't change the outcome to be in UD's favor either.

Richmond has a good academic reputation. You could argue that basketball wise, they are the same as UD.



I don't think anybody even really cares all that much about NIT appearances in a situation like this.

The C7 want NCAA-level schools not NIT-level schools.



Richmond NCAA appearances:
1984, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1998, 2004, 2010, 2011

UD NCAA appearances:
1952, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1969, 1970, 1974, 1984, 1985, 1990, 2000, 2003, 2004, 2009

Creighton NCAA appearances:
1941, 1962, 1964, 1974, 1975, 1978, 1981, 1989, 1991, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2012

St. Louis NCAA appearances:
1952, 1957, 1994, 1995, 1998, 2000, 2012

VCU NCAA appearances:
1980, 1981, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 2004, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[hawkoooo]

NCAA appearances can't have much to do with the equation. If they did, St. Joe's would be the top candidate and SLU wouldn't even be on the radar.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

I know the Jersey guy has been right on a few things before, but I think he is way off base on this one.

I still trust what a Dayton Guy told a Clayton Guy, and that the core group has been set for some time and we are in. They wanted the core group for TV negotiations.

The entire package was looked at. The Dayton Guy named numerous things, but olympic sports, facilities, location, fan base and support not just locally but throughout the geographic footprint of the league and beyond, etc. all were taken into account when making final decisions for the new league.

I am still sleeping well at night.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by CE80 For TV purposes. SLU is better than UD and Creighton. UD vs. Creighton is a wash.

Not true, people here in St. Louis don't give a rats a$$ about SLU only alumni care. This is a pro town and don't have the community support Dayton does.

UD represents the community in name. While SLU also carries the community's name it is the Cardinals, Rams, and Blues that carry the community's name.

Only people I can talk SLU bball with are alumns, other change to the Cardinals, SLU is a non factor.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Medford]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan I know the Jersey guy has been right on a few things before, but I think he is way off base on this one. I still trust what a Dayton Guy told a Clayton Guy, and that the core group has been set for some time and we are in. They wanted the core group for TV negotiations. The entire package was looked at. The Dayton Guy named numerous things, but olympic sports, facilities, location, fan base and support not just locally but throughout the geographic footprint of the league and beyond, etc. all were taken into account when making final decisions for the new league. I am still sleeping well at night.

I hope "Dayton Guy" is right.

A couple of thoughts, I'd be shocked if the core hasn't been sent for some time. I'm guessing this has been discussed as a possibility for a number of years, just took time for the stars to align. Before they broke off, they had to have a decent idea of what their TV package would look like. I seriously doubt you get to the point in TV negotiations where just about all of the information isn't known. Perhaps there's debate over #12 still going on, but you've got to figure they've known the first 3-4 teams for quite some time.

We've talked about the fan base a bunch here (afterall it is UD's strongest selling point), I've even talked about the Alumni in the NYC area that would help Saint John's get regular season games in the Garden. They've lost some recent "MSG" type home dates by parting ways with UConn, Syracuse & Louisville. But one aspect I didn't think of prior to your post, is the amount of Alumni UD has that are from and/or currently reside in Milwaukee, Chicago, NYC, & DC, not to mention Saint Louis & Indy. I'd be surprised if Creighton can match the alumni concentration in current C7 schools that UD has. I'm guessing Butler, SLU & X don't quite match it as well.

At any rate, I still expect some formal announcements around the final 4, so we've got another month or so before we know for sure. You'd have to think they'd want the official news to break when college BBall is at its peak. If they wait until summer time, the news gets lost in baseball and the warm up to football talk.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Medford]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Not true, people here in St. Louis don't give a rats a$$ about SLU only alumni care. This is a pro town and don't have the community support Dayton does. UD represents the community in name. While SLU also carries the community's name it is the Cardinals, Rams, and Blues that carry the community's name. Only people I can talk SLU bball with are alumns, other change to the Cardinals, SLU is a non factor.

I've heard that from several people as well. Market size matters, but only if you can capture a decent percentage of that market. This isn't the B10 market where the only thing that matters (primarily anyways) is the number of cable viewers in the area and the rate you can charge per cable customer. What matters is the number of eyeballs more than anything. It doesn't really matter where those eyeballs are coming from, just that they're tuning in and can have advertisers sell to them.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[The Gem]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan At one time, 10 years or so ago, wasn't it reported that Montgomery County was considering selling the fairgrounds property, with the goal being building a new fairgrounds in the western part of the county, closer to the agriculture base and 4H clubs that county fairs originated from? Or did I dream this had happened? I would think they could build a real nice new facility with what the current property could be worth to UD /MVH.

You are correct, sir.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by hawkoooo NCAA appearances can't have much to do with the equation. If they did, St. Joe's would be the top candidate and SLU wouldn't even be on the radar.

I disagree, SJU hasn't done any better than Dayton recently. SJU has 4 NCAA appearances since 2001.

SLU is probably going to the tournament this year, so they will have 3 recent NCAA appearances, one less than SJU. The C7 like the St. Louis market too, and Villanova already represents the Philadelphia market.


St. Joe's NCAA appearances:
1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1966, 1969, 1971, 1973, 1974, 1981, 1982, 1986, 1997, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2008

	St Joseph's ST. JOSEPH'S Founded by the Society of Jesus in 1851, Saint Joseph's University advances the professional and personal ambitions of men and women by providing a demanding, yet supportive educational experience. One of only 139 schools nationwide with a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and AACSB business school accreditation, Saint Joseph's is home to 4,200 full-time undergraduates and 3,100 graduate, part-time and doctoral candidates. Located in urban Philadelphia, SJU is a fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Hawks. Athletic claim to fame is is the Hawk mascot, a university student on full scholarship who wears a Hawk uniform and flaps his wings continuously for an entire athletic event. School spirit slogan is "The Hawk Will Never Die."

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[ud2]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...d_story_3.html



This is a 4 page article, that was posted on the Marquette board, I didn't read the whole thing, I just skimmed it.

Some sources are saying that the c7 league "may extend west of the Mississippi". That would seem to indicate that Creighton is definitely being considered, and that would seem, IMO, to be bad news, since taking CU seems to imply taking SLU also. And, in addition, in order to balance the east and west, then either Richmond or VCU is taken. Thus, in that scenario, there is no room for UD in a 12 team league: Butler, X, Richmond or VCU, SLU, and Creighton.




"DeGioia is tight-lipped about the contours of the conference that’s taking shape, acknowledging that it likely will consist of 12 members though may expand to 10 initially. According to others close to the process, the three to five new members need not be Catholic schools. And though its boundaries may extend west of the Mississippi, some 'geographical coherence' is expected."

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[UACFlyer]

The new conference will likely be comprised of 12 schools,,,,six east....six midwest, meaning four new midwest schools are to be added.

If I were making the selections I would go with X, BU, SLU and CU. I fear that's exactly what the C7 will do.

The article refers to a criteria being schools that "play exceptional basketball". Over a long enough time period we match up pretty well with CU and SLU. But, over the last decade we have been flat and still appear that way,...while CU and SLU appear to be on a positive trend.

Many Priders have said that "perception" matters as much or more than facts. And right now the perception of Dayton basketball is anthing but "exceptiona".

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Bat'71]

Actually the "perception" of the fans at the individual schools involved don't matter to the decision makers, just the "facts". While "politics" will undoubtedly play a role, the financial impact and the logistics associated with league configuration will not be ignored and will be strong considerations in any decision by the founding group of institutions. Thus far, there doesn't appear to be any compelling reason why UD would be excluded; we're all just going to suck it up and wait and see. From what I understand, those associated with the situation in and around the UD community still seem comfortable with how things are progressing. Getting cold sweats and fretting over every article or opinion that doesn't have UD in the mix gets us nowhere.

[rollo]

If the C7 only accepts us because of our money then we really do $uck.

Because, essentially, what this means is that we're buying our way into the C7 as opposed to earning the bid.

Is that where my seat license money has gone?

Sad.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by rollo If the C7 only accepts us because of our money then we really do $uck. Because, essentially, what this means is that we're buying our way into the C7 as opposed to earning the bid. Is that where my seat license money has gone? Sad.

This is a ridiculous post. Who is to say what it takes to "earn" a bid as you call it. It is not all about on the court performance. They are negotiating a TV contract to get as much money as they can get. They are reportedly looking at TV markets. TV markets are about money. Much of what conferences do is about money. There are several factors being looked at. One is how much money a school can bring into the conference through TV or other means. Our on the court performance has been equal to or better than Creighton and St Louis over the past ten years. Therefore, if one or both of them makes it ahead of us, one of the reasons would be because it is thought they would bring more money to the conference through TV or other means. It is always about money, so if we make it because of our money, fantastic!

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[rollo]

But we're the only team who's only chance of making it into the C7 depends solely on money...because we have nothing else that the others want.

They don't want our men's basketball team...that's sad. They want my money...that UD will gladly tell them I/we have plenty of....

And that's sad.

I know some Oakwood kids who only like other Oakwood kids because of the size of their house. Some girls won't go on a date with a boy based on the size of his house. Or sit with someone at lunch because they live on the east size of Far Hills. I think it's ridiculous. You probably disagree.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by rollo But we're the only team who's only chance of making it into the C7 depends solely on money...because we have nothing else that the others want.

Not true.

[rollo]

Two posts ago you were trying to convince me/us that the C7 wants our money...now you're trying to tell us they want our non-revenue sports, too.

Which I think backs my point that the C7 has no interest in our Men's basketball program...only our money...and our girl's teams.

[Flyer2]

ESPN just announce big east signed a contract with ESPN thru 2020 for a 12 team basketball league.

[rollo]

I think this thread needs to be moved to the Women's Basketball or Women's Soccer or Women's Volleyball pages...they are the ones who should be leading the charge for C7 membership!

Deservedly so!

[FlyerFanatic08]

Originally Posted by Flyer2 ESPN just announce big east signed a contract with ESPN thru 2020 for a 12 team basketball league.

just to clarify

believe thats for football/basketball thats left for the rubble that will be the big east. catholic 7 still are considering offers.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...tv-rights-deal

"That will bring the Big East's total media rights value to about $22 million annually, starting in 2014 and, based on a 12-team league, worth about $1.8 million per school annually.

In 2011, ESPN offered a new nine-year deal to the Big East worth $1.17 billion or an average of $130 million annually. However, the Big East's presidents voted to turn down the deal that would have earned football members nearly $14 million a year.

The Big East's $10 million figure for the men's basketball season in 2013-14 is based on the seven Catholic schools remaining in the league next season, sources said. If those schools leave the Big East before next year, that figure would be reduced.

The seven Catholic basketball schools -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's and Villanova -- are expected to leave the Big East and form a 10- to 12-team league, but not until 2014. Fox Sports is willing to pay the seven schools as much as $3 million annually, sources said.

ESPN president John Skipper recently told SI.com that he also believes Fox Sports will get the Catholic 7 deal, but Skipper said ESPN would be interested in sub-licensing some games."

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by rollo I think this thread needs to be moved to the Women's Basketball or Women's Soccer or Women's Volleyball pages...they are the ones who should be leading the charge for C7 membership! Deservedly so!

Seriously tman, er, I mean rollo, you are so negative about everything about the program I don't know why you just don't give up your season tickets and start rooting for somebody else.

[rollo]

I'm anything but negative about the Program...but I'm absolutely 100% negative about the direction of the Program.

Take that thought back to the John R Fan Club and get back to me with another pithy comment.

[longtimefan]

[QUOTE=rollo;299667]But we're the only team who's only chance of making it into the C7 depends solely on money...because we have nothing else that the others want.

Originally Posted by rollo Two posts ago you were trying to convince me/us that the C7 wants our money...now you're trying to tell us they want our non-revenue sports, too. Which I think backs my point that the C7 has no interest in our Men's basketball program...only our money...and our girl's teams.

I didn't say it was SOLELY about the money. You are the one who said that. I said they were looking at several factors, one of which was money.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by longtimefan I didn't say it was SOLELY about the money.

Ummmm, yes you did...read below.

Originally Posted by longtimefan It is always about money, so if we make it because of our money, fantastic!

So now that you agree with me when I say that inclusion into the C7 is all about my/our money, can we move on to the women's programs...they're more than ready for the C7+!

Don't you agree?

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Bat'71 Thus far, there doesn't appear to be any compelling reason why UD would be excluded; we're all just going to suck it up and wait and see. From what I understand, those associated with the situation in and around the UD community still seem comfortable with how things are progressing. Getting cold sweats and fretting over every article or opinion that doesn't have UD in the mix gets us nowhere.

I agree that there is no compelling reason to exclude UD.

Hopefully, this will all be decided in the next month or 2.

CU is located in Omaha, Nebraska, right on the western border of Iowa.

"As the crow flies, the distance between Omaha, NE and St Louis, MO is 352 miles or 567 kilometres. As it is not possible to travel as the crow flies, the driving distance between the two cities is 439 miles or 706 kilometres. Google Maps suggests that this journey in a car would take approximately 7 hours and 19 minutes without breaks."



Geez, it is still another 350 miles, or about a 6 hour drive if you drove in a straight line, to get from St. Louis to Omaha.

I have got to believe that distance is a really significant factor here. But, then again, maybe not. Heck, I don't know. Milwaukee and Chicago aren't that far away from Omaha, I guess.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by ud2 I agree that there is no compelling reason to exclude UD.

Compelling means unrefutable...convincing.

To say there's no 'compelling' reason to exclude us from the C7 means you believe our resume has no holes...is perfect.

If that were the case this thread wouldn't exist.

Very few, if any, of us will not have our fingers crossed when the announcement of membership is made.

While there are many financial reasons to include UD in the conference, there are plenty of compelling reasons to pass on UD, too.

Plenty.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by rollo Compelling means unrefutable...convincing. To say there's no 'compelling' reason to exclude us from the C7 means you believe our resume has no holes...is perfect. If that were the case this thread wouldn't exist. Very few, if any, of us will not have our fingers crossed when the announcement of membership is made. While there are many financial reasons to include UD in the conference, there are plenty of compelling reasons to pass on UD, too. Plenty.

Longtimefan already pointed this out, but I do think you are going overboard on the negativity. Richmond and SLU haven't done any better than UD recently. And Creighton missed the tournament 4 years in a row from 2008-2011.

IMO, UD underachieved under BG. AM is dealing with some tough circumstances, and additionally, it usually takes some time for a new regime to get its system installed.

IMO, UD is capable of competing in this new league. As I've said before, if UD really struggles in this league, then just drop out and go to a lower level. But, I want UD to be given the chance to sink or swim in this new league.

UD has the fan support and the facilities to compete in this league. Just because UD has never been at the level of Xavier, Butler, etc., does not mean that they can't get there. IMO, there is nothing inherently holding UD back. There has only been 1 coach since OP. Have some faith and hang in there. Real change can be very painful and doesn't happen overnight.

If you don't think Richmond, VCU, SLU, and maybe Creighton also aren't also crossing their fingers, then I think you are mistaken. And the bottom 4(DePaul, Providence, St. John's, and Seton Hall)of the c7 haven't exactly been tearing it up lately either. That makes maybe 9(including UD)of the 14 having had some struggles, with the other 5 not having as many struggles. But, heck, you can maybe make that 12 of the 14 having had some struggles since Georgetown, Marquette, and Villanova have all had fairly recent struggles. Butler and X have done well for a while now.



Edit: Heck, even look at Georgetown, they've had a couple of down periods:

no tournament for GU in 98, 99, or 2000
no tournament for GU in 2002, 2003, 2004, or 2005




Edit #2: no tournament for Villanova in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, or 2004. That was 5 years in a row of them missing the tournament. No tournament for Villanova last year and probably this year also. 2 years in a row(including this year)of Villanova missing the tournament.



Edit #3: no tournament for Marquette in 1998, 1999, 2000, or 2001. 4 years in a row missing the tournament.

That makes 12 out of 14 that have had at least some recent struggles.


Hopefully, the playing field will be fairly level in this new league. With everybody on equal ground, let's play some games and see how things shake out.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Chris R]

Yet at the same time, Georgetown, Villanova, and Marquette have all reached the FINAL FOUR in the last 10 seasons.

Dayton isn't even on the same planet in comparison to those programs over the last 15 years. Maybe not even the same galaxy. Nova was ranked in the Top-5. They've had guys like Kerry Kittles and Scottie Reynolds go through that program. Georgetown just won in front of 35,000 Syracuse fans. Marquette is a machine that churns out Top-25 rankings and NCAA bids like Wonka turns out candy bars.

We can't even beat Xavier at Xavier in 28 tries.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Bat'71]

We really should stop navel gazing as much as we do, finding every wart and scar we see because of the disappointment in mens BB in seasons past and present and letting that color our view of the future. As the disclaimer in financial promotions notes, past success is no guarantee of the future (in our case, past disappointments are no reliable indication of future performance either.) As ud2 so helpfully illustrated above, most programs have had problem seasons, even some of those perceived to be among the best. While not where we would have liked to have been, we've had a more than "respectable" program the past 15 years or so in mens BB and our other programs have been getting national attention. So all is not lost here.

We should all step back from the ledge and take an unemotional look at where UD would fit in (relative to other schools, but particularly Creighten) to the hypothetical new league in it's totality. Geographically we're in the "sweet spot" among X, Butler, Marquette and DePaul, with SLU and Creighten being outliers*. While Dayton's MSA may be smaller than St. Louis, that doesn't translate into more advertising bucks unless SLU can deliver more eyeballs in that market than UD can deliver in the Dayton MSA. In fan attendance, facilities, etc. we're every bit as good if not better than either SLU or Creighten, plus our fans travel better than most and we do have a nice alumni base in the Northeast. How many SLU or Creighten fans could be expected to be at MSG for a league Tourney relative to UD fans?...I doubt if it would be even close. A lot of people pooh-pooh our NIT Championship of a few years ago, but the UD attendance at the two games in the City did catch the attention of sponsors and, I would have to believe, the broadcasters and decision makers in the C7. One of the reasons we get a lot of "invites" to pre-season Tournies is because our fans travel so well and we have been competitive now in each Tourny we've played over the past decade; that is important. UD does have a natural rivalry with X that translates into exciting BB viewing...neither SLU nor Creighten will bring anything like that to the party.

We have a lot more going for us than many would seem to acknowledge...we're too caught up in our recent record in mens BB and the lack of success this year is causing undo angst (IMHO) and bleeding into the perception of our "desirability" for any new league. I also wouldn't discount the fact that our D-1A FB program could be viewed positively by some schools as an addition to their schedules ('Nova and G'town) especially if the likes of Butler and Richmond are thrown into the mix. Our efforts (and recent success) in women's crew, track and field, cross country and recently baseball should all help fill out our resume to go along with soccer and volleyball. Institutionally, we're also a great fit. So to reiterate, step back from the ledge, take a deep breath and keep the faith...we do have a lot to offer and any league should be happy to have us. If plans concerning a new Arena come to fruition, we'll be even more attractive.

* If, as ud2 pointed out, Omaha is over a seven hour drive from St. Louis (okay, it probably would only be an hour and a half by plane), how far is it from the Northeast corridor cities...home to most of the core C7? Somehow I doubt that SHU, St. John's, Providence, 'Nova or G'town would relish taking their men's and women's baseball/softball, volleyball, soccer and other non-revenue generating teams two-thirds of the way across country to Omaha. Unless Creighten can bring in significantly more money to the conference than UD could, it makes no financial/economic sense and places an undue burden on coaches and athletes. Heck, Rick Majerus didn't like the travel schedule for his Bilikins in the A-10, I doubt the coaches or ADs of most of the C7 would relish trips to Omaha now. Plus as mentioned above, I doubt many Creighten fans in Omaha would make the trek to MSG every year for the Conference Tourney and that is important.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Chris R Yet at the same time, Georgetown, Villanova, and Marquette have all reached the FINAL FOUR in the last 10 seasons. Dayton isn't even on the same planet in comparison to those programs over the last 15 years. Maybe not even the same galaxy. Nova was ranked in the Top-5. They've had guys like Kerry Kittles and Scottie Reynolds go through that program. Georgetown just won in front of 35,000 Syracuse fans. Marquette is a machine that churns out Top-25 rankings and NCAA bids like Wonka turns out candy bars. We can't even beat Xavier at Xavier in 28 tries.

The last post by Bat '71 was fantastic.

GU, VU, and MU had the advantage of recruiting to a BCS league, UD has never had that advantage, The Big East is always on ESPN, is a nationally respected BCS league that gets the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the number of at large bids granted and also tournament seeding, plays their conference tournament at MSG, has bigger recruiting budgets, has bigger coaching budgets, etc.

I've mentioned before that UD, IMO, has a much better chance of being nationally relevant and advancing deep into the tournament(like a Final 4 or a national championship)if they are in this new league. Schools like Butler and VCU advancing to the Final 4 or a national championship game are the rarest of exceptions.

For example, Akron's coach would love to be in a better league, he has been quoted as saying that the league you are in(paraphrasing here)"is everything. It is very important." Butler and VCU wanted a better league too. Other examples: UD and X joining the A10. Belmont moving to the OVC. Utah moving to the Pac12. Everybody always want to move up to a better league, that is the natural progression of things.

I don't think UD should pass by this opportunity. The additional money in this new league ain't bad either.

Finally, again, I just don't think UD is bound to this new league forever. If UD just isn't able to compete, I'm sure UD could reach an exit agreement. But, some of you posters don't even want to give UD the chance to compete in this new league. I say let's give it a shot.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by ud2 Finally, again, I just don't think UD is bound to this new league forever. If UD just isn't able to compete, I'm sure UD could reach an exit agreement. But, some of you posters don't even want to give UD the chance to compete in this new league. I say let's give it a shot.

If the C7+ thinks that our commitment to their league includes an exit strategy to buy our way out of it, why in God's name would they invite us to join? Especially when teams like Creighton, St. Louis, VCU and Richmond are willing to gouge their eyes out, chop their arms off and sell their grandchildren for the opportunity to join?

I've heard of prenups for marriages and employment, but never for a Conference bid.

And let's not even get into the recruiting fiasco that strategy would create:

X to recruit: "Come here and play on National TV against the best competition around....or go to UD and by the time you're a junior who knows what league you'll be in or who you'll be playing. We, at X, are committed to winning and planning on NCAA Final Fours! Those boys in Dayton are committed to hope and planning for their return to the A10."

Recruit to X: "Where do I sign?"

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by ud2 The last post by Bat '71 was fantastic. GU, VU, and MU had the advantage of recruiting to a BCS league, UD has never had that advantage, The Big East is always on ESPN, is a nationally respected BCS league that gets the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the number of at large bids granted and also tournament seeding, plays their conference tournament at MSG, has bigger recruiting budgets, has bigger coaching budgets, etc. I've mentioned before that UD, IMO, has a much better chance of being nationally relevant and advancing deep into the tournament(like a Final 4 or a national championship)if they are in this new league. Schools like Butler and VCU advancing to the Final 4 or a national championship game are the rarest of exceptions. For example, Akron's coach would love to be in a better league, he has been quoted as saying that the league you are in(paraphrasing here)"is everything. It is very important." Butler and VCU wanted a better league too. Other examples: UD and X joining the A10. Belmont moving to the OVC. Utah moving to the Pac12. Everybody always want to move up to a better league, that is the natural progression of things. I don't think UD should pass by this opportunity. The additional money in this new league ain't bad either. Finally, again, I just don't think UD is bound to this new league forever. If UD just isn't able to compete, I'm sure UD could reach an exit agreement. But, some of you posters don't even want to give UD the chance to compete in this new league. I say let's give it a shot.

....it will be interesting to revisit these posts.

There is sooooo much we don't know. When the ACC was about to add another school, most of the sentiment generally and, specifically, locally, was that UConn was the favorite over Louisville. After UL was selected the CT media types did some serious digging,...learning that it was a slam dunk in favor of UL,.....UC didn't have a chance.

[Bill Elwood]

Originally Posted by rollo Compelling means unrefutable...convincing. While there are many financial reasons to include UD in the conference, there are plenty of compelling reasons to pass on UD, too. Plenty.

and if the financial reasons outweigh the others, we will be in. After all, in this realm of collegiate athletics it is ALWAYS mostly about the finances.

[bobber]

Originally Posted by Bill Elwood and if the financial reasons outweigh the others, we will be in. After all, in this realm of collegiate athletics it is ALWAYS mostly about the finances.

You are right, of course. If we clearly bring in lots more money than other schools, we're in.

But what if it is close moneywise, or there is a disagreement about who really brings in more? What if there is no clear-cut money advantage going to UD and we are competing for a slot with several other schools? If that's the case, and one or more of the other schools are Jesuit, I don't like our chances. Not one bit.

We already know the President at Creighton is on the Marquette Board of Trustees. So do you think Marquette isn't pressing hard to have Creighton brought in? I've read on other boards that they are adamant that the the Blue Jays be included.

[hoch21]

You guys need to relax, UD is in.
Posted via Mobile Device

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by bobber You are right, of course. If we clearly bring in lots more money than other schools, we're in. But what if it is close moneywise, or there is a disagreement about who really brings in more? What if there is no clear-cut money advantage going to UD and we are competing for a slot with several other schools? If that's the case, and one or more of the other schools are Jesuit, I don't like our chances. Not one bit. We already know the President at Creighton is on the Marquette Board of Trustees. So do you think Marquette isn't pressing hard to have Creighton brought in? I've read on other boards that they are adamant that the the Blue Jays be included.

Suppose MU really is pressing for Creighton...pushed by the CU president on the MU board. And suppose a few of the east coast Catholics in the C7 say something like,..."There is no way in hell we're sending our olympic sports teams 2/3 the way across the country,,,even if they do hit SLU along the way,....we're going to have them miss three days of class for a volleyball game?"

Would the clout of the CU president overcome such a sentiment? As weak as they are, Providence, Seton Hall et al are in the C7....in my opinion, that gives them a voice louder than that of the CU president.

And, I sort of think that the two mid west members of the C7 aren't quite as "equal" and the five east coast founding members of the Big East.

Just opinions.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[Bat'71]

UAC, while everyone in Connecticut thought UConn was more desirable than UofL, not everybody outside the State thought so. Just as UD's fan support is noticed at BB Tournies and at away games in and out of Conference, the lack of UConn fan support was noticed at their only trip to the Orange Bowl. UofL fans travel well, they have first class facilities and are competitive in a wide range of sports, including baseball, soft ball, track and field, and particularly FB. So while UConn may have bragging rights in the lab over UofL, this is about FB, the rain maker in college sports and the impetus behind all the Conference turmoil we've witnessed and UConn just didn't measure up where it counted.

*While anything is possible, unless the Creighten/Marquette folks have some incriminating photos of people, the logistics would just appear to be too much for the Blue Jays to overcome, especially since there is no discernible financial advantage to having them in over UD. In addition, I'm not so sure inclusion in the new league would be advantageous to Creighten either. While I know the MVC is pretty far flung, the opportunity for fans and the family and friends of athletes to follow the kids in the new league will be problematic. While BC thought joining the ACC would be a plus, they've found themselves out on a limb, far north of the ACC base of schools and their athletic programs have suffered from it.

[UDan71]

As we all know, Georgetown, Marquette, and Xavier are all Jesuit institutions. So are Saint Louis and Creighton. The Jesuits are very tight, as a group, and regularly convene national educational meetings among faculty from their various institutions. Certainly, it would not be surprising to discover that there is lobbying going on, especially from Marquette, for these other Jesuits schools to be included.

Historically, I think it's fair to say that there is no great love for the Jesuits among other priestly orders. DePaul and St. John's are Vincentian, Providence is Dominican, Seton Hall is diocesan, and Villanova is Augustinian. If that premise is correct and you were the administration from one of these latter four schools, would you want to bring to a total of five (out of twelve), the number of Jesuit schools in the league. Maybe I'm being a little paranoid here, but I would think that there might be concern that that's an awfully large voting bloc in league affairs. I suspect that the feeling would be to maintain more diversity among the schools.

I also agree that traveling costs and time away from school for the non-men's basketball athletes would be significant if Omaha is a destination. I suspect that UD has as large or larger an alumni network throughout the East Coast as any of the other schools being considered for addition, which pumps up the viewing numbers back there. Lastly, when league games are broadcast on TV, which game environment would appear better than ours. You know there won't be any empty seats (at least that could be seen)

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by UDan71 As we all know, Georgetown, Marquette, and Xavier are all Jesuit institutions. So are Saint Louis and Creighton. The Jesuits are very tight, as a group, and regularly convene national educational meetings among faculty from their various institutions. Certainly, it would not be surprising to discover that there is lobbying going on, especially from Marquette, for these other Jesuits schools to be included. Historically, I think it's fair to say that there is no great love for the Jesuits among other priestly orders. DePaul and St. John's are Vincentian, Providence is Dominican, Seton Hall is diocesan, and Villanova is Augustinian. If that premise is correct and you were the administration from one of these latter four schools, would you want to bring to a total of five (out of twelve), the number of Jesuit schools in the league. Maybe I'm being a little paranoid here, but I would think that there might be concern that that's an awfully large voting bloc in league affairs. I suspect that the feeling would be to maintain more diversity among the schools. I also agree that traveling costs and time away from school for the non-men's basketball athletes would be significant if Omaha is a destination. I suspect that UD has as large or larger an alumni network throughout the East Coast as any of the other schools being considered for addition, which pumps up the viewing numbers back there. Lastly, when league games are broadcast on TV, which game environment would appear better than ours. You know there won't be any empty seats (at least that could be seen)

Maybe, Dan, But your point re the the view of the other Catholic orders vs the Jesuits is interesting.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Saint Louis SAINT LOUIS Saint Louis University is a Jesuit, Catholic university ranked among the top research institutions in the nation. The University fosters the intellectual and character development of more than 12,700 students. Founded in 1818, it is the oldest university west of the Mississippi and the second oldest Jesuit university in the United States. Located in St. Louis, MO, and just five minutes from the Gateway Arch, SLU offers 85 undergraduate programs and over 50 graduate study tracks. Over 99% of the SLU faculty hold the highest degree in their respective fields. Fellow member of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Billikens, but also commonly known as "Sloo", the phonetic pronunciation of the school's initials. Athletic claims to fame include multiple national titles in men's soccer and men's basketball star Larry Hughes.

[longtimefan]

I know we're not in the same class as Georgetown, but they're not as great as they think they are. They have made the NCAA four of the last five years, but they haven't exactly set the world on fire once they got there. They have lost to a #14 seed, two #11 seeds, and a #10 seed in those four trips. The season they didn't make it they were 16-15.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan I know we're not in the same class as Georgetown, but they're not as great as they think they are. They have made the NCAA four of the last five years, but they haven't exactly set the world on fire once they got there. They have lost to a #14 seed, two #11 seeds, and a #10 seed in those four trips. The season they didn't make it they were 16-15.

Very true, Georgetown is "not as good as they think they are".....but they are infinitely better than we are.

As you point out, the Hoyas have been in four of the last five NCAAs...and they have lost to the seeds you indicated.

It's also true that GU has been in six of the last seven NCAAs in which they advanced to a Sweet 16 on one occasion and a Final Four on another.

(If I had posted such incomplete "selected" facts you'd have peeled my skin off.)

[Whacker]

From Seth Davis:

You'd be hard-pressed to find a bigger victim of conference realignment than VCU. The school thought it was upgrading by jumping from the CAA to the Atlantic 10, but now it looks like the A-10 is going to lose Butler, Xavier and Dayton to the basketball-only league featuring the former Big East Catholic schools. Keep in mind the Atlantic 10 is already scheduled to lose Temple (to the Big East) and Charlotte (Conference USA). Makes you wonder if Shaka Smart will be a lot more inclined to listen when his phone starts ringing again after the season.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/col...#ixzz2Ls2polk0

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Charlotte CHARLOTTE UNC Charlotte is one of a generation of universities founded in metropolitan areas of the United States immediately after World War II in response to rising education demands generated by the war and its technology. Now a research intensive university, UNC Charlotte is the fourth largest of the 16 institutions within the University of North Carolina system and the largest institution in the Charlotte region. The university comprises seven professional colleges and currently offers 18 doctoral programs, 62 master’s degree programs and 90 bachelor’s degrees. More than 900 full-time faculty comprise the university’s academic departments and the 2007 fall enrollment exceeded 22,300 students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the 49ers.

[bobber]

Originally Posted by Whacker From Seth Davis: You'd be hard-pressed to find a bigger victim of conference realignment than VCU. The school thought it was upgrading by jumping from the CAA to the Atlantic 10, but now it looks like the A-10 is going to lose Butler, Xavier and Dayton to the basketball-only league featuring the former Big East Catholic schools. Keep in mind the Atlantic 10 is already scheduled to lose Temple (to the Big East) and Charlotte (Conference USA). Makes you wonder if Shaka Smart will be a lot more inclined to listen when his phone starts ringing again after the season. Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/col...#ixzz2Ls2polk0

Thanks, Whacker. But I read the link you posted by Seth Davis and I can't find a single word that you quoted. Did you include the wrong link? Or did Seth Davis pull the paragraph?

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Charlotte CHARLOTTE UNC Charlotte is one of a generation of universities founded in metropolitan areas of the United States immediately after World War II in response to rising education demands generated by the war and its technology. Now a research intensive university, UNC Charlotte is the fourth largest of the 16 institutions within the University of North Carolina system and the largest institution in the Charlotte region. The university comprises seven professional colleges and currently offers 18 doctoral programs, 62 master’s degree programs and 90 bachelor’s degrees. More than 900 full-time faculty comprise the university’s academic departments and the 2007 fall enrollment exceeded 22,300 students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the 49ers.

[FlyerFanatic08]

Originally Posted by bobber Thanks, Whacker. But I read the link you posted by Seth Davis and I can't find a single word that you quoted. Did you include the wrong link? Or did Seth Davis pull the paragraph?

gotta go to the 2nd page

[bobber]

Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08 gotta go to the 2nd page

Nevermind.

My bad.

[bobber]

An interesting side light.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-bas...thats-must-see

[ud2]

Originally Posted by CE80 All I know is that somebody's sources or friend of a freind, is full of s#%t.

Yes, I again thought this the other day, obviously some folks are going to have been wrong about all of this. There are so many rumors floating around saying opposite things, that when all is said and done, some folks are going to have been completely wrong about how all of this actually turned out.

[bobber]

Read an opinion the other day that basically said this Jersey Guy has written provocative stuff on the C7 just to build traffic on his website. He's the boss there I imagine, so he isn't going to have to answer to an editor if his guesses turn out to be wrong or his sources are all wet. His site gets a millions clicks and ends up in a lot of peoples "favorites" folder.... and the sponsors are happy for the traffic.

Feinstein and other journalists, on the other hand, do have to be more careful. They have to sell their editor on the reliability of the sources. And the material they print can't be blatantly wrong, or they could be bounced by their paper/wire service/tv station etc.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by rollo If the C7+ thinks that our commitment to their league includes an exit strategy to buy our way out of it, why in God's name would they invite us to join? Especially when teams like Creighton, St. Louis, VCU and Richmond are willing to gouge their eyes out, chop their arms off and sell their grandchildren for the opportunity to join? I've heard of prenups for marriages and employment, but never for a Conference bid. And let's not even get into the recruiting fiasco that strategy would create: X to recruit: "Come here and play on National TV against the best competition around....or go to UD and by the time you're a junior who knows what league you'll be in or who you'll be playing. We, at X, are committed to winning and planning on NCAA Final Fours! Those boys in Dayton are committed to hope and planning for their return to the A10." Recruit to X: "Where do I sign?"

I think you twisted what I said. If after 10 or 15 or 20 years, UD finds that the move to this new conference was a mistake due to inability to compete, then I think UD could just move to an easier conference. I don't see UD being like Fordham, just being happy to take the money and not trying to compete every year.

I didn't say anything about UD having to buy their way out, and I didn't say anything about dropping out after only a few years.

And, again, there is no guarantee that UD would do any better in a weaker A10. In a weaker A10, you are going to be recruiting lower rated recruits, the tv package will probably be worse, ticket sales may slump, head coaching candidates are going to be less qualified, etc.



Again, as Bat '71 pointed out upthread, I think a lot of you have become so jaded, due to the BG era, that the jadedness has destroyed any confidence that you have regarding UD's ability to get better in the future. Not that I blame you for being jaded, but things can change.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

[MD Flyer Pride]

Originally Posted by ud2 Again, as Bat '71 pointed out upthread, I think a lot of you have become so jaded, due to the BG era, that the jadedness has destroyed any confidence that you have regarding UD's ability to get better in the future. Not that I blame you for being jaded, but things can change.

Personally, I enjoyed the BG era. Was it perfect?... nope. Could it have been better?... sure. I just do not remember suffering through a season like this one, though. Maybe I just have a short memory.

[UDGutter2]

I have a computer, an imagination, and sources, er voices in my head, so here's my stab at what the new conference will look like.

If you go back a year or two, you will find Dayton and Xavier being mentioned as the teams that would join the Catholic, basketball only schools of the Big East, if and when they were to split. I believe it was a done deal then. At the time there were 8, and with UD and XU they could form a ten team conference. No problem with TV contract, as Notre Dame would be part of it.

Then in the spring of 2012, it was rumored Butler would be joining the A10, but they were afraid Dayton and Xavier would be leaving so they sought assurances from UD and XU before joining. My sources, (see above) said Dayton and Xavier went to the C8 about Butler joining them and they concluded it would work, as they would then make it a 12 team conference.

Notre Dame announced in September of 2012 they would be joining the ACC, after receiving an offer they couldn't refuse. So now, with the C7, Butler, Dayton, and Xavier, they would have a 10 team conference again. Also, with Notre Dame leaving, the remaining Catholic BB schools got nervous about others leaving and sped up their exit plans, and announced it in December.

But now without ND, the TV contract for a 10 team conference wasn't quite as enticing, so we are now at the spot we are now, looking for the last 2 schools. With the opening of the doors for more schools, some (Marquette) began asking if they should rethink every school. To solidify their position, Dayton has floated the idea of a new arena.

If this league begins as a 10 team league next year, which I think it will, Dayton is in, as they are prepared for the switch and have been for some time. If it doesn't start until 2014, then hold your breath as you just never know, but the odds are in UD's favor.

As for the new arena, I love UD Arena. Iconic look, brainchild of a Minster grad, what's not to love. But several times a year I see a house built in a dry area having foundation trouble. I have known people who have had to fix this, and it is quite expensive, up to a third of its current price, for a house. UD Arena is built below ground next to a river, and while I am sure this was all taken into account when built, I can believe the hydraulic pressure has taken a toll on its foundation. If it costs a third of its current price to fix it all I can believe a new arena is in the works.

Now, I also have source, (again see above) that say Mike K is getting bored at Duke where McDonalds AA are everywhere and is planning to resign and take over a school where coaching would be the most important thing. He has stated Dayton would be his destination job. Duke's short list includes Mack, and Xavier has said if they lose Mack, they would try to get Sean's little brother Archie Miller. The three way trade of coaches will come a day after Duke wins the National Title.

Do I lose all credibility with that last paragraph?

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by UDGutter2 Now, I also have source, (again see above) that say Mike K is getting bored at Duke where McDonalds AA are everywhere and is planning to resign and take over a school where coaching would be the most important thing. He has stated Dayton would be his destination job. Duke's short list includes Mack, and Xavier has said if they lose Mack, they would try to get Sean's little brother Archie Miller. The three way trade of coaches will come a day after Duke wins the National Title.

You serious Clark?

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Medford]

the voices in his head are always correct.

[Medford]

Originally Posted by MD Flyer Pride Personally, I enjoyed the BG era. Was it perfect?... nope. Could it have been better?... sure. I just do not remember suffering through a season like this one, though. Maybe I just have a short memory.

IIRC, BG's third year, after a promising (overall mediocre but considering the circumstances, it was indeed promising) 2nd season working 6 frosh into the mix, with several of them in the starting lineup, perhaps even 5 different frosh getting a start, the team fell below .500 in season 3.

[UDGutter2]

Originally Posted by CE80 You serious Clark?

You should see our Christmas display, I've been called Clark before.

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by ud2 . . . I think a lot of you have become so jaded, due to the BG era, that the jadedness has destroyed any confidence that you have regarding UD's ability to get better in the future. Not that I blame you for being jaded, but things can change.

Originally Posted by MD Flyer Pride Personally, I enjoyed the BG era. Was it perfect?... nope. Could it have been better?... sure. I just do not remember suffering through a season like this one, though. Maybe I just have a short memory.

IIRC, the BG era included three seasons where the Flyers were ranked in the top 25, and five trips to the post season. That sure got me all jaded!

___________________
Whether your glass is half empty or half full, you still have more to drink.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by Glen Clark IIRC, the BG era included three seasons where the Flyers were ranked in the top 25, and five trips to the post season. That sure got me all jaded! ___________________ Whether your glass is half empty or half full, you still have more to drink.

Those three seasons in which the Flyers were "expected" by all to be a Top 25 team...and appeared in the rankings (briefly).... ended in disappointment as the team fell far short of expectations. Most definitely, those teams did not end the season in the Top 25.

We now see former Flyers either in the NBA or having a foot in the NBA,...attesting to the fact that BG recruited good players...but did not produce good teams.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Glen Clark IIRC, the BG era included three seasons where the Flyers were ranked in the top 25, and five trips to the post season. That sure got me all jaded! ___________________ Whether your glass is half empty or half full, you still have more to drink.

How many trips to the NCAA tourney or A10 titles in those seasons?

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 How many trips to the NCAA tourney or A10 titles in those seasons?

You can look it up - it's all right here:

UD Mens Basketball Media Guide
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/8432e97c

___________________
A man sees what he wants to see, And disregards the rest.
- Paul Simon

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by Glen Clark You can look it up - it's all right here: UD Mens Basketball Media Guide http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/8432e97c ___________________ A man sees what he wants to see, And disregards the rest. - Paul Simon

Thanks for the link. 1 NCAA tourney and 0 A-10 titles. I was more frustrated with the team that won the NIT than I am this year. That was a team that should have not only made the NCAA tourney, but made a run at least until the second weekend. That was a team that had should have met expectations more so than any team in recent history. This team should have been better, but had many more question marks coming into the season than the NIT team.

[Fudd]

The most frustrating season for me was When Chris Wright got hurt as a frosh. I thought that was the best team that we had under BG and we were really tearing up the season until he, and then later Charles Little went down to injury. Our resume was still borderline to get us in the NCAA tournament, even though we went on a losing streak without them. That was a tremendous team, IMO.

	Chris Wright CHRIS WRIGHT 6-8 225lb | Trotwood Madison, HS (OH) A10 All Rookie Team. Preseason 2008 2nd Team All A10. Member of the UD Flight Club with a 40+ inch vertical leap. Consensus Top-75 national recruit. Uncle is former Flyer J.D. Grigsby. Nickname is Top Flyght. CAREER STATS 2007-08 10.4ppg 5.7rpg

[MD Flyer Pride]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Thanks for the link. 1 NCAA tourney and 0 A-10 titles. I was more frustrated with the team that won the NIT than I am this year. That was a team that should have not only made the NCAA tourney, but made a run at least until the second weekend. That was a team that had should have met expectations more so than any team in recent history. This team should have been better, but had many more question marks coming into the season than the NIT team.

Actually... 2 NCAA tourney bids. Also, the win against WVU was the 1st NCAA tourney win in over 20 years (IIRC). They also won the A-10 West (they way they used to do it back then).

As you mentioned, they won the NIT Championship, against the defending National Champs. I do agree, they should have made the NCAA tourney that year, though.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by UACFlyer Very true, Georgetown is "not as good as they think they are".....but they are infinitely better than we are. As you point out, the Hoyas have been in four of the last five NCAAs...and they have lost to the seeds you indicated. It's also true that GU has been in six of the last seven NCAAs in which they advanced to a Sweet 16 on one occasion and a Final Four on another. (If I had posted such incomplete "selected" facts you'd have peeled my skin off.)

I would like to apologize to my fellow posters for posting information which was completely and totally accurate. Since Chris had just pointed out that Georgetown had made the Final Four within the past 10 years, I saw no need to repeat that information. I wanted to take a look at what they had done more recently. However, before posting any such information in the future, I will be sure to coordinate with UAC to get his approval regarding how many years I should look at.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by MD Flyer Pride Actually... 2 NCAA tourney bids. Also, the win against WVU was the 1st NCAA tourney win in over 20 years (IIRC). They also won the A-10 West (they way they used to do it back then). As you mentioned, they won the NIT Championship, against the defending National Champs. I do agree, they should have made the NCAA tourney that year, though.

Was he talking about BG as a whole or just the last few years? I took his quote as the last few years when we made 5 postseason trips in a row.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by longtimefan I would like to apologize to my fellow posters for posting information which was completely and totally accurate. Since Chris had just pointed out that Georgetown had made the Final Four within the past 10 years, I saw no need to repeat that information. I wanted to take a look at what they had done more recently. However, before posting any such information in the future, I will be sure to coordinate with UAC to get his approval regarding how many years I should look at.

Just make an extra contribution to UD and I am sure all will be forgiven.

[TheSixthMan]

I really believe the success of our women's team will get us in the Catholic 7

[ud2]

Originally Posted by MD Flyer Pride Personally, I enjoyed the BG era. Was it perfect?... nope. Could it have been better?... sure. I just do not remember suffering through a season like this one, though. Maybe I just have a short memory.

My post was just in reply to the negativity coming from some posters regarding c7 admission.


And no offense, but IMO, some posters do have short memories:


Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason

1998–99 Dayton 11–17 5–11 5th–West


2005–2006 Dayton 14–17 6–10 T–11th
2010–2011 Dayton 22–14 7–9 T–8th NIT 1st Round

OP had a sub .500 A10 record in his 5th year. And BG had sub .500 A10 records in his 3rd year and in his final year.


It is still possible to finish 8-8, I want to withhold judment until all the games have been played.

[UACFlyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan I would like to apologize to my fellow posters for posting information which was completely and totally accurate. Since Chris had just pointed out that Georgetown had made the Final Four within the past 10 years, I saw no need to repeat that information. I wanted to take a look at what they had done more recently. However, before posting any such information in the future, I will be sure to coordinate with UAC to get his approval regarding how many years I should look at.

Apology accepted. Please be more careful in the future.

As for the promised "coordination", also great....I'll look forward to it.

[SC_Flyer]

All of this banter is amusing to me. Anyone who doesn't think everything comes down to money simply isn't paying attention. Dayton's best chance to make more money is in the new conference and it really shouldn't matter how we get into that conference.

New Conference + New Money = Destination Coaching Job

Old Conference + Old Money = Stepping Stone Coaching Job

Do equations help at all here?

[UACFlyer]

There is no doubt that money is a very important consideration in the minds of the C7 group.....arguably, the most important consideration, by far.

But, perhaps our thinking is being driven a bit to much by the conference realignment of the power conferences, i.e., the big time football conferences.

In the big leagues, FB drives everything. But, big time FB has an appetite for consuming money the likes of which we cannot imagine. When Maryland made the jump to the Big Ten, UM's athletics finances were revealed, showing that they were on track to bankrupt the school. UM "had" to move to the Big Ten.

I believe it was Tennessee that revealed a similar picture, in which spending on athletics,....football that is,....was bleeding the school dry. About 20 big time FB schools make out allright, while the other 100+ swim in a sea of red ink from which there is no way to extricate themselves.

For those schools, the only thing that matters is money, so it seems.

The C7 guys want to max TV revenue to the extent they can. But, those schools have total athlletics budgets on the order of $20-25 million,....several, a lot less. Their situtations are not ones of desperation, driven by a monster (FB) that never has enough to eat.

Thus, I am suggesting that while money is very important to the C7, it just may be that other things are "relatively" more important than is the case typical of the big time FB schools......things like institutional compatibility, academics, Olympic sports, women's athletics, geography, etc.

I hope that is correct. Because it's in those areas that UD shines.

[anthonycharles]

Originally Posted by Whacker From Seth Davis: You'd be hard-pressed to find a bigger victim of conference realignment than VCU. The school thought it was upgrading by jumping from the CAA to the Atlantic 10, but now it looks like the A-10 is going to lose Butler, Xavier and Dayton to the basketball-only league featuring the former Big East Catholic schools. Keep in mind the Atlantic 10 is already scheduled to lose Temple (to the Big East) and Charlotte (Conference USA). Makes you wonder if Shaka Smart will be a lot more inclined to listen when his phone starts ringing again after the season. Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/col...#ixzz2Ls2polk0

With all of the talk and speculation out there, it is reassuring for me to know that people I respect in the media are including Dayton in the C-7 talk. This includes Seth Davis, John Feinstein and Andy Katz. While these guys could be wrong, I take what they write a lot more serious than a blogger that goes by the name of Jersey Guy.

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Temple TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Founded in 1884 by Dr. Russell Conwell, Temple College became Temple University in 1907. Located in Philadelphia, Temple is a comprehensive public research university with 34,000 students, 8 campuses, and 300 academic degree programs. Notable alumni include Bill Cosby and Daryl Hall. Temple's nickname is the Owls and are fellow A10 Conference members.

	Charlotte CHARLOTTE UNC Charlotte is one of a generation of universities founded in metropolitan areas of the United States immediately after World War II in response to rising education demands generated by the war and its technology. Now a research intensive university, UNC Charlotte is the fourth largest of the 16 institutions within the University of North Carolina system and the largest institution in the Charlotte region. The university comprises seven professional colleges and currently offers 18 doctoral programs, 62 master’s degree programs and 90 bachelor’s degrees. More than 900 full-time faculty comprise the university’s academic departments and the 2007 fall enrollment exceeded 22,300 students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the 49ers.

[UDGutter2]

I also don't believe NCAA units are as important as ability to win OOC games. I think every team would be quite happy to go to the NCAA themselves as long as other conference members provide OOC wins to pad their SOS in conference games.