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11-02-2015, 01:35 PM
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General of the Air Force
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AP Poll Released
Teams of Note:
10 Wichita State (Orlando)
18 Vanderbilt
19 Notre Dame (Orlando)
23 Purdue (Scrimmage)
37 Rhode Island (17 pts)
38 UD (12 pts)
39 Xavier (12 pts)
41 Iowa (6 pts)
http://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll
Last edited by lhsgolf19; 11-02-2015 at 01:40 PM..
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224 (11-03-2015), AC91 (11-02-2015), Alberto Strasse (11-02-2015), Bat'71 (11-02-2015), Bob G (11-03-2015), College B-Ball Fan (11-02-2015), Flyer 86 (11-02-2015), FLYER5 (11-02-2015), flyrsmedic (11-02-2015), jack72 (11-02-2015), Justin (11-03-2015), MrsFlyerFanatic (11-23-2015), NYCFLYER (11-23-2015), ohioflyer (11-23-2015), ruechalgrin (11-02-2015), skip69 (11-30-2015), TMPH66 (11-02-2015), UDEE79 (11-02-2015) |
11-02-2015, 03:35 PM
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Wow, very good start...this is a rarity for UD to be ranked in the preseason AP poll...only the 5th time ever...1967-1968 season, 2009-2010, 2010-2011, 2014-2015, and this year.
http://collegepollarchive.com/mbaske...8#.VjfIsvmrSM8
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11-02-2015, 07:34 PM
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UD isn't ranked in this poll. So, it's still only 4 times.
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11-02-2015, 08:28 PM
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Without Pierre, unfortunately, this #38 ranking is going down and hopefully after he comes back, the #38 will be at the end of the season.
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11-02-2015, 08:50 PM
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There will be at least one team (maybe more) that didn't get a single vote in either poll and that no one is talking about that will be in the rankings before Christmas. Happens every year.
I like the preseason poll, but one of the reasons I like it is because it really doesn't mean anything. It's just a frame of reference for the start of the season, because everyone truly does start off at zero. Teams that should be in it will be in it soon enough. The teams that aren't will not be. If history repeats itself, close to half these teams won't be ranked at the end of the year, and about a third of them will miss the NCAA Tournament entirely, including at least one in the top ten. I believe Florida started off at #7 last year.
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11-03-2015, 07:52 AM
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The Dayton women's basketball team is ranked 27
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11-03-2015, 08:52 AM
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But for the DP situation we would be ranked inside the top 25, says me.
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11-03-2015, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by swish61
UD isn't ranked in this poll. So, it's still only 4 times.
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Yeah, my bad, I meant getting votes. 5x getting votes.
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11-23-2015, 01:52 PM
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Couldn't find another thread, so with today's release of the weekly brackets...
UD is sitting at 34th in both the AP & the Coaches. Iowa is 33 in the AP, and 36th in the Coaches I believe.
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11-23-2015, 03:50 PM
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Based on highest rankings in each poll:
Vandy 16
ND 17
Wichita St 20
X 23
GW 27
Iowa 33
Dayton 33
Davidson 39
Chattanooga 42
Posted via Mobile Device
Last edited by Gilchrist's Autograph 2; 11-23-2015 at 08:38 PM..
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11-23-2015, 04:24 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by Gilchrist's Autograph 2
Based on highest rankings in each poll:
ND 17
Wichita St 20
X 23
GW 27
Iowa 33
Dayton 33
Davidson 39
Chattanooga 42
Posted via Mobile Device
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Vandy?
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11-23-2015, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford
Couldn't find another thread, so with today's release of the weekly brackets...
UD is sitting at 34th in both the AP & the Coaches. Iowa is 33 in the AP, and 36th in the Coaches I believe.
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Actually 35th in AP. And Davidson is 35. Also, GW is 28 and Vandy 16.
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11-24-2015, 02:39 PM
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For what it's worth, the A10 has two teams in the RPI top 10 this morning, Davidson is no. 3 and Dayton no. 7.
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11-30-2015, 02:15 PM
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Dayton comes in at 35 with only 8 votes this week. That's 10 less votes than last week and no movement staying at 35
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings
Kind of frustrating that yesterday's game diminishes what we did earlier in the week in the eyes of the voters. We went 2-1 against 3 teams all receiving votes in the top 50 but get no love.
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11-30-2015, 02:22 PM
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UD got 11 in the coaches poll as well, which is I believe the same amount of points as last week.
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11-30-2015, 02:46 PM
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General of the Air Force
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ND
How anyone can vote for Notre Dame being in the top 25 after losses to Alabama and Monmouth is beyond me.
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11-30-2015, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by UDFlyer23
Dayton comes in at 35 with only 8 votes this week. That's 10 less votes than last week and no movement staying at 35
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings
Kind of frustrating that yesterday's game diminishes what we did earlier in the week in the eyes of the voters. We went 2-1 against 3 teams all receiving votes in the top 50 but get no love.
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If we lost by 5 perhaps we move up a few notches. Lost by 29 and that' the First thing in Coaches and Writers mind. WE got Zapped yesterday.... by ourselves!
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11-30-2015, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford
UD got 11 in the coaches poll as well, which is I believe the same amount of points as last week.
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UD picked up one point in the coaches poll from last week. Amazingly, Iowa picked up TWO! Go figure....
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11-30-2015, 03:55 PM
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Go figure is right!
How anyone, coach or writer, could vote for the Flyers after yesterday's humiliating debacle is hard to understand. Teams have off days and everyone knows that. I suppose that explains it...that and the fact that the Flyers beat a few pretty good teams before meeting X.
A good showing at Vandy would be nice.
Hopefully the team will learn a lot more from yesterday's experience than had they lost by 10.
(The women are #29 and #27 in the AP and coaches polls, respectively.)
Last edited by UACFlyer; 11-30-2015 at 03:59 PM..
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11-30-2015, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
How anyone, coach or writer, could vote for the Flyers after yesterday's humiliating debacle is hard to understand. Teams have off days and everyone knows that. I suppose that explains it...that and the fact that the Flyers beat a few pretty good teams before meeting X.
A good showing at Vandy would be nice.
Hopefully the team will learn a lot more from yesterday's experience than had they lost by 10.
(The women are #29 and #27 in the AP and coaches polls, respectively.)
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avier moved up to 12th in the AP by beating Alabama, USC and the Flyers by 29. Seems to me that if they are going to hold that 29 point loss against the Flyers, they shouldn't give that much credit to avier for the lopsided win. avier shouldn't have earned any extra votes based on USC and Bama games.
Let's face it, with the Flyers, every negative gets magnified in the eyes of the voters, the positives get lost.
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11-30-2015, 04:34 PM
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Say what?
Originally Posted by Smitty10
Let's face it, with the Flyers, every negative gets magnified in the eyes of the voters, the positives get lost.
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Why would you say that? Why would a large group of ever-changing writers and coaches give a hoot about Dayton, one way or the other?
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11-30-2015, 04:36 PM
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I think we were treated very fairly by the poll voters. We are not a Top25 team at this point of the season. Whether or not we get there depends on how quickly we learn from our mistakes and whether or not we are able to correct them.
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11-30-2015, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer
I think we were treated very fairly by the poll voters. We are not a Top25 team at this point of the season. Whether or not we get there depends on how quickly we learn from our mistakes and whether or not we are able to correct them.
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Where we're rated might be right, I don't agree with it though. Yes, we're not top 25, but beating Iowa and Monmouth while losing to X should not have lost us votes.
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11-30-2015, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
Why would you say that? Why would a large group of ever-changing writers and coaches give a hoot about Dayton, one way or the other?
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I agree with Smitty, it's the same bias that is exhibited when bids are given out. The selection committee and the poll voters come up with every reason under the sun to keep out the non p5 schools, but yet they give every benefit of the doubt to the p5 school teams, that's just the way it is.
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11-30-2015, 05:24 PM
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General of the Air Force
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The vote is for top 25. If you think we should be in top 25, who do you think should be left out?
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11-30-2015, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
How anyone can vote for Notre Dame being in the top 25 after losses to Alabama and Monmouth is beyond me.
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We have seen this many times, where the voters take a week or two to catch up to what happened over the weekend. Get pressed for time and make change or two and turn it in late because they have more pressing things to worry about. Remember when Temple had a losing record and lost two in row and got more votes? Some voters just don't take it that seriously.
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11-30-2015, 05:34 PM
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Two points...
Originally Posted by Smitty10
Where we're rated might be right, I don't agree with it though. Yes, we're not top 25, but beating Iowa and Monmouth while losing to X should not have lost us votes.
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"Losing" to X, a very good team, may/should not cost UD votes. Being demolished by X is another matter, in my opinion.
Also, to be in the "others receiving votes" category a team has to receive Top 25 votes, correct? The first 20, or so teams are on everyone's ballot....but from 20 to 25 there is considerable difference of opinion...leading to teams receiving top 25 votes but not in sufficient number to rank in the Top 25.
If I'm right about that, the fact that UD still received votes in both polls after the loss to X yesterday means that some coaches and writers still had us on their Top 25 ballots. Correct? That surprises me...one does not expect the #12 team to beat a #20-#25 team by 30 points,....unless you feel the losing team's over all body of work so far is very good; and they just had a bad day.
I hope that reflects reality.
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11-30-2015, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by UDFlyer23
Dayton comes in at 35 with only 8 votes this week. That's 10 less votes than last week and no movement staying at 35
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings
Kind of frustrating that yesterday's game diminishes what we did earlier in the week in the eyes of the voters. We went 2-1 against 3 teams all receiving votes in the top 50 but get no love.
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I half agree but we put on a stank show last night... i wouldn't vote for us after that fold. If it was close we could have cracked top 25
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11-30-2015, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
"Losing" to X, a very good team, may/should not cost UD votes. Being demolished by X is another matter, in my opinion.
Also, to be in the "others receiving votes" category a team has to receive Top 25 votes, correct? The first 20, or so teams are on everyone's ballot....but from 20 to 25 there is considerable difference of opinion...leading to teams receiving top 25 votes but not in sufficient number to rank in the Top 25.
If I'm right about that, the fact that UD still received votes in both polls after the loss to X yesterday means that some coaches and writers still had us on their Top 25 ballots. Correct? That surprises me...one does not expect the #12 team to beat a #20-#25 team by 30 points,....unless you feel the losing team's over all body of work so far is very good; and they just had a bad day.
I hope that reflects reality.
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No, getting steam rolled by the 12th rated team should not have that much influence. A game getting out of hand can be the result of a team doing everything in their power to try to get back in the game. Otherwise, teams that are down by a significant amount won't mail it in by playing 2nd and 3rd stringers. A bad game can happen and if it happens once in the championship game of a prestigious holiday tournament, it shouldn't be held against you. They earned their way to that championship game. They beat two teams so far this season that beat ND. One badly mismatched game should not wipe all that away.
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11-30-2015, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer Al
UD picked up one point in the coaches poll from last week. Amazingly, Iowa picked up TWO! Go figure....
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That's because the Hawkeye football team won the B1G West Division.
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11-30-2015, 10:26 PM
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Meanwhile, the Flyers are soaring in the RPI:
Dayton: 14, sos: 16
http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_Men.html
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12-01-2015, 07:15 AM
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The RPI probably needs a few more games to really sort itself out....getting closer but not quite yet.
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12-01-2015, 08:29 AM
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I Am A Statistical God
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In week 3, Dayton was picked by 4 voters. Of those 4, only 1 voted for the Flyers in week 4, moving us from 19 to 24.
The other 3 from week3 had us at 21, 25, and 21.
In week 4, we got 2 new voters, 1 for 21 and 1 for 25.
And the voter that had us in both weeks, didn't have Xavier in last week, but put them in at #11 this week.
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12-01-2015, 09:25 AM
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35 puts us around an 8/9 seed if the dance were tomorrow, which is probably about right. I know it's not that black and white but it's a good benchmark.
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12-01-2015, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark
Meanwhile, the Flyers are soaring in the RPI:
Dayton: 14, sos: 16
http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_Men.html
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I continue to proffer: "Screw the RPI!"
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12-01-2015, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by AC91
The RPI probably needs a few more games to really sort itself out....getting closer but not quite yet.
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Would let Chris or someone who tracks it more closely now weigh in, but it used to be said that the RPI really didn't sort it self out until later in January.
Dayton isn't anywhere close to a top 15 team in the country.
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12-01-2015, 01:59 PM
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ESPN power rankings have UD #29 http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...on/2016/week/4 -- Andy Katz giving all the votes ranking Dayton at #21 and y at #5.
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12-01-2015, 02:28 PM
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ESPN needs our new logo.
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12-02-2015, 02:23 PM
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LSU with more votes HAHAHAHA
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12-02-2015, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
LSU with more votes HAHAHAHA
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And that's AFTER 3 consecutive losses in 8 days?!
Maybe pot DID get legalized somewhere this fall?
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12-02-2015, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by UDDoug
. . . Dayton isn't anywhere close to a top 15 team in the country.
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There are 351 Division I programs - Dayton is a consensus top tenth percentile program.
So, they're kinda close (20 spots back)
Meanwhile - just win, baby.
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12-03-2015, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo
LSU with more votes HAHAHAHA
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The first 2 losses were to Marquette and NC State, two name opponents, the third loss was to the College of Charleston. They were ranked 22 and 17, once you get ranked or start getting votes, you sort of get to hang around/get votes every week/only get dropped bit by bit with each loss.
It is a long way to fall to go from being ranked one week to not getting any votes the next week, it doesn't seem like that usually happens.
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12-07-2015, 02:22 PM
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7 points in the AP poll, 20 points in the coaches, which puts UD at #30.
Vandy is 20/17 in the AP/Coaches. A 2-0 week probably vaults UD somewhere to the 23-28 range next week. Obviously a tough task given the trip to Vandy Wednesday evening.
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12-10-2015, 08:11 AM
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http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/new...ranking/npgRK/
Originally Posted by article
“This should put you guys in the top 25,” Miller was told in the postgame press conference.
“I hope not,” Miller said.
“You hope not?”
“I hope not. I just think it’s irrelevant,” Miller said. “I just think it causes added clutter in our locker room, added clutter on our practice floor, added clutter in our film room. It means absolutely zero. We’re better off with a chip on our shoulder. We’re better off being the underdogs. If they put us in the top 25, I’ll take it, but all that does is it gives our fans a chance to tell our guys how good they are, and they’re not very good right now.
“We have to keep getting better. Saturday is one of those fat and happy opportunities. You feel real good about this one. You play a really good Chattanooga team on Saturday. If you take your eyes off it the next couple days, you know what happens.”
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12-10-2015, 09:22 AM
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That's a breath of fresh air from Archie. Over the years we gag on the rarefied air in the top 25. We play much better as the hunter vs the hunted. It feels like the over and under is about 5 days after we are ranked in the T25 that we shoot ourselves in the foot.
The main reason I hope for the T25 is that our results hit the big time media and you don't have to go to page 56 to find our score.
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12-10-2015, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
That's a breath of fresh air from Archie. Over the years we gag on the rarefied air in the top 25. We play much better as the hunter vs the hunted. It feels like the over and under is about 5 days after we are ranked in the T25 that we shoot ourselves in the foot.
The main reason I hope for the T25 is that our results hit the big time media and you don't have to go to page 56 to find our score.
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If coach can keep the hammer down would expect to see this being a regular event ... like going to Disney World the first time ... in complete awe ... but after a few visits act like you been there before BUT still enjoy the visit and you already know where all the great rides are!
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12-10-2015, 09:34 AM
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Archie will remind them what happened last time they were ranked.
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12-10-2015, 09:45 AM
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...top-25-and-one
I've always liked Parrish' top 25 & 1 feature, mostly because he gives reasoning behind moving teams up/down. I may not always agree, but at least there is thought behind it, plus he watches a ton of basketball and seems fairly knowledgeable.
anyhoo enter his poll for the first time this season, hopefully for good.
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12-10-2015, 11:09 AM
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I don't know, should be close, have to move up about 5 spots. Good teams don't rest on their laurels, so they shouldn't overlook Chattanooga.
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12-22-2015, 09:15 AM
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Dayton got 17 votes in the AP poll this week, they got 14 last week.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/polls?poll=1
Dayton actually went backward in the USA Today/ESPN poll this week. Last week Dayton got 18 votes, this week they got 10 votes.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketb...ate=2015-12-21
GW at #20 in both polls.
I don't like SMU being ranked even though they are banned from the postseason this year. I don't think they should be allowed to be ranked either.
Vanderbilt #25 in one of the polls.
Last edited by ud2; 12-22-2015 at 09:19 AM..
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12-22-2015, 09:24 AM
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Actually I think 31 is a fair assessment of our overall performance. We have hit a few speed bumps, and our warts are obvious. Mix in some really nice road/neutral wins and there we are.
The reality of it is we are poised to make a move, and it could be either way depending on our ooc finish and the two out of 3 road A10 games ahead to start the conference season.
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12-22-2015, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I don't like SMU being ranked even though they are banned from the postseason this year. I don't think they should be allowed to be ranked either.
Vanderbilt #25 in one of the polls.
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Note that they are not in the Coaches Poll. The other poll needs to step up and take a similar stand.
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12-22-2015, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I don't like SMU being ranked even though they are banned from the postseason this year. I don't think they should be allowed to be ranked either.
Vanderbilt #25 in one of the polls.
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I actually don't either. But, the polls are pretty much meaningless anyway, so whatever....
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12-22-2015, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew
I actually don't either. But, the polls are pretty much meaningless anyway, so whatever....
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I forget if it was Palm or someone else but a study was done several years back showing a better correlation between seeds in the NCAA tournament and the AP Poll than any other measure. So you can think polls don't matter, but I would guess you are wrong.
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12-22-2015, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by KYFlyer
I forget if it was Palm or someone else but a study was done several years back showing a better correlation between seeds in the NCAA tournament and the AP Poll than any other measure. So you can think polls don't matter, but I would guess you are wrong.
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Just maybe that is because of the same media power 5 bias....... dah!
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12-22-2015, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by KYFlyer
I forget if it was Palm or someone else but a study was done several years back showing a better correlation between seeds in the NCAA tournament and the AP Poll than any other measure. So you can think polls don't matter, but I would guess you are wrong.
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Maybe 1-16 in the AP poll will have some correlation because for the most part those are no brainers. It's after you get beyond 16 that the correlation breaks down a bit.
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12-22-2015, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by KYFlyer
I forget if it was Palm or someone else but a study was done several years back showing a better correlation between seeds in the NCAA tournament and the AP Poll than any other measure. So you can think polls don't matter, but I would guess you are wrong.
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I'll bet if SMU finishes the season ranked there will be 0 correlation between their rank and their seed
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12-22-2015, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew
I actually don't either. But, the polls are pretty much meaningless anyway, so whatever....
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Well, actually the polls aren't meaningless because in the case of SMU they are getting continual press by being ranked. Recruits pay attention. SportsCenter reports your results and often has highlights. It's a big deal to a high major.
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12-22-2015, 02:48 PM
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I don't see any problem with them being ranked. Whether they participate in the post-season shouldn't have any bearing how their regular season body of work is perceived.
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12-22-2015, 03:05 PM
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I think whether they are ranked is a function of the seriousness of the violations. IF the committee thinks they have been punished enough, so be it. But they are likely relieved that they weren't forced to vacate wins and everything that goes with it--which includes not being ranked. If any school knows what it's like to feel the full wrath of the NCAA, it surely is the Mustangs. I think the SMU administration let out a collective sigh of relief.
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12-22-2015, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew
I actually don't either. But, the polls are pretty much meaningless anyway, so whatever....
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Originally Posted by jack72
Note that they are not in the Coaches Poll. The other poll needs to step up and take a similar stand.
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Originally Posted by ud2
Dayton got 17 votes in the AP poll this week, they got 14 last week.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/polls?poll=1
Dayton actually went backward in the USA Today/ESPN poll this week. Last week Dayton got 18 votes, this week they got 10 votes.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketb...ate=2015-12-21
GW at #20 in both polls.
I don't like SMU being ranked even though they are banned from the postseason this year. I don't think they should be allowed to be ranked either.
Vanderbilt #25 in one of the polls.
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It's probably a good idea to have them ranked for the teams that play them. That way the committee can judge their opponent's SOS more effectively.
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12-22-2015, 04:02 PM
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In the case of SMU, why not let kids who played no part in NCAA violations play for their ranking? The NCAA has come down where it hurts with the postseason ban already. But a regular season ranking that is meaningless to others (including probably coaches who are the ones that actually deserve to be penalized)? If it means something to anyone, it is the players, who again aren't the ones you're really trying to hurt here.
As far as the NCAA is concerned, taking away the ability to be ranked, is so down the list of things that could be taken away (if they even could?) that I don't know it's even really occurred to the NCAA to take it away. Although I must say that vacating wins is probably an equally trivial penalty. Really, postseason bans, scholarship reductions, and suspensions are what sends a message. Anything else is really superfluous.
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12-22-2015, 04:46 PM
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Hawaii just vacated wins.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3...ing-violations
Vacating wins takes care of any ranking debate.
These college players know what's going on. They are not choir boys. Whatever violations were risked allowed SMU to recruit and retain good players. If SMU gets caught, the whole team is caught in the crosshairs. I would be willing to bet there are violations that were not discovered, and the players know where the bones are buried.
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12-22-2015, 04:50 PM
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When Ohio State was being punished for tatoo-gate they were ranked in the AP Poll but not the USA Today Poll.
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12-22-2015, 11:20 PM
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We're over rated! Wake up gang...we ain't there yet.
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12-23-2015, 07:05 AM
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After the Miami near loss and the loss to UTC both at home, I suggest we not worry about ratings, tournament seeding etc. and concern ourselves with winning. Everything else takes care of itself.
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12-23-2015, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71
We're over rated! Wake up gang...we ain't there yet.
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Did you watch this team play against Vanderbilt? Monmouth? Iowa? Alabama? This is a good team when they don't play stupid. How many passes did we basically throw straight to Miami last night? 3? 4?
They need to stop being lazy and realize that just throwing the jersey out on the home floor is not enough to win a game.
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12-28-2015, 06:31 PM
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GW dropped out of both polls after losing to DePaul...Vandy dropped out of the USA Today poll after losing to Purdue, so they are no longer ranked in either poll...St. Joe's got some votes in the AP poll.
Dayton improved to 19 votes in the AP poll, they got 17 last week.
Also, Dayton continued to somehow lose votes in the USA Today poll for the second straight week despite not losing for the last 2 weeks...7 votes this week, 10 last week.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketb...ate=2015-12-28
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/polls?poll=1
Last edited by ud2; 12-28-2015 at 06:34 PM..
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12-29-2015, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2
Dayton improved to 19 votes in the AP poll, they got 17 last week.
Also, Dayton continued to somehow lose votes in the USA Today poll for the second straight week despite not losing for the last 2 weeks...7 votes this week, 10 last week.
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Not votes, points. I'll keep posting until everyone figures it out. 8-)
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12-29-2015, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71
We're over rated! Wake up gang...we ain't there yet.
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71, yea thanks for your dose of reality! Whatever!
We're 9-2 with road wins over vandy, as well as multiple other very solid resume building wins!
As for "there".........
It's been a fun season already and most of us have hopes of a third tournament in a row and seem poised to do it!
I guess I could suggest we aren't "there" or could simply be happy we are "here"------I'll stick with being happy!
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12-29-2015, 09:42 AM
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I'm sure the buttkicking we laid on the Redhawks effected the polls somewhat.
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12-29-2015, 09:44 AM
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Aw Gee, did I commit a micro-aggression against you CBBF by pointing out we're not a top 25 caliber team yet or are deserving of more votes in the major Polls? Don't get your panties in a bunch. My point (try to read this c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y since you've got a tendency to go on a rant at the drop of a hat...or whatever) is that while we have the nucleus of a really good team, we are not there yet...there is still a lot of work to do. Once the kids get used to playing together as a unit and build up some chemistry, we could be deserving of more votes and become a top rated team; right now we're not.
P.S. BTW, I'm glad you're "happy", if not down right "jolly", because it 'tis the season, don'tcha know.
Last edited by Bat'71; 12-29-2015 at 09:48 AM..
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12-29-2015, 11:23 AM
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Top 25 teams do not lose to Chatt AT HOME
and beat Miami at the buzzer AT HOME
We are right where we whould be.....what we have earned.
Where we should be on Selection Sunday is what counts.
Go Flyers!
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12-29-2015, 11:49 AM
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Agree Piqua Flyer. I try to be as unbiased as possible. At this point we are not a top 25 team yet. More like top 50. However, Archie shows a penchant for improving his team as the season progresses. This trait defines a good coach.
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12-29-2015, 12:10 PM
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To be fair, Cincinnati, Gonzaga, UCLA with 4 losses, Baylor, and South Carolina IMO don't have really strong cases to make as far as being top 25 teams either.
Cincinnati-lost 3 to tougher opponents, two good wins
Gonzaga-lost 3 to tougher opponents, one good win
UCLA-3 good wins, but 4 losses
Baylor-lost 2 to tougher opponents, one good win
South Carolina-probably the easiest team of these 5 to pick on...best win is over rpi #89 Tulsa.
Last edited by ud2; 12-29-2015 at 12:16 PM..
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12-29-2015, 12:33 PM
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While I'm at it, #17 West Virginia and Pitt don't have real strong resumes for top 25 consideration right now either IMO.
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12-29-2015, 12:49 PM
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Hard to see losses by UC and Zags as being losses to "tougher" teams than our loss to X. One of UC's tougher losses was to X.
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12-29-2015, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62
Hard to see losses by UC and Zags as being losses to "tougher" teams than our loss to X. One of UC's tougher losses was to X.
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I meant tougher as in on the tougher end of the scale, I wasn't comparing those losses directly to UD's losses.
If you look at UD's current rpi of 10 and SOS of 4, along with the fact that UD has about 4 good wins and 2 good losses, IMO, UD should be in the rankings ahead of several of these other top 25 teams.
UD should get some credit for scheduling and beating a p5 team if they beat Arkansas...might not get much credit for beating Duquesne, UMass, and LaSalle...I am starting to think they might have to beat one or both of Davidson and GW before they crack the rankings again...they've gone backwards 2 weeks in a row in the coaches poll despite what they have accomplished thus far...just not getting any respect.
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12-29-2015, 01:38 PM
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Don't disagree that we need a W against Arkansas and a few Ws in conference before we crack the rankings, and we could see some currently ranked teams fall out when they get into their conferences and face tougher competition.
Although I am not surprised that we are where we are, I have to think that the L to Chattanooga is the reason that we are not ranked right now.
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12-29-2015, 02:52 PM
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UD is #27 in today's ESPN Power Rankings.
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12-29-2015, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66
Top 25 teams do not lose to Chatt AT HOME
and beat Miami at the buzzer AT HOME
We are right where we whould be.....what we have earned.
Where we should be on Selection Sunday is what counts.
Go Flyers!
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With all due respect Piqua Flyer, take the names off the jerseys and Chattanooga is not a bad loss. They are #100 in kenpom and Dayton should lose to Chattanooga at home about 25% of the time. Substitute the name and say UD lost a home game to Temple, Memphis, Illinois, LSU, Marquette, Tennessee, Oklahoma State, Stanford, Davidson, Alabama, Arkansas, etc. and no one would be complaining. All these teams are between 80-120 in kenpom so indistinguishable from Chattanooga.
Objectively, Dayton should absolutely be ranked ahead of Gonzaga, UCLA, Baylor, Uconn, etc. As follows is a cut and paste from another post. Very little argument that any of these teams should be ranked ahead of Dayton.
----------
I love Gary Parish's poll attacks and generally think he is spot-on in his rankings, but honestly do not know how his latest 25 (and one) should not be attacked itself.
He has Gonzaga, UCLA, Uconn, and Baylor all ahead of Dayton, but this defies the logic he uses to attack the AP and Coaches' Poll. Parish often refers to kenpom as his measuring stick for wins.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...top-25-and-one
Let's use his ranking of UCLA over Dayton as an example of his faulty logic right now.
Dayton is 8-2 overall and 5-2 versus top 100 kenpom and 2-1 versus top 25 winning 1 on the road and 1 at a neutral venue.
UCLA 8-4 overall and 3-4 versus top 100 kenpom (counting Wake Forest who is 102) and 1-2 top 25 winning 1 on the road and 1 at a neutral site.
So Dayton has a better overall record (8-2 versus 8-4); better top 100 record (5-2 versus 3-4); better top 25 record (2-1 versus 1-2); Dayton won its best two on the road and on a neutral court which is tougher than UCLA's best two on the road and at home; Dayton's best win at #17 Vandy is more impressive than UCLA's #12 as UCLA's win was at home; Dayton's two best wins are at an average of 17.5 (Vandy 17 and Iowa 18) versus UCLA's average of 21 (#12 Kentucky and #30 Gonzaga).
Dayton's 3rd best win is versus #54 Monmouth on a neutral court whereas UCLA's 3rd best win is versus #84 UNLV on a neutral court. BTW, UCLA lost to Monmouth at home. Dayton's 4th and 5th best wins are versus #72 William and Mary and #85 Alabama. UCLA's 4th and 5th best wins are versus #106 Pepperdine#128 Cal Poly. Again, Dayton's 3rd/4th/5th best wins better than UCLA's 3rd/4th/5th best wins.
It must be the losses then. UCLA must have lost all 4 to top 10 whereas Dayton has had all bad losses. Dayton lost to #7 Xaiver on a neutral court whereas UCLA lost to #5 Kansas and #9 NC on neutral courts. So let's ignore the 2nd loss to a top team and say Dayton's 1 top 10 loss is equivalent to UCLA's 2 top 10 losses. Dayton lost to #90 Chatanooga at home whereas UCLA lost to #102 neutral so again let's cancel those out. But UCLA also has one more loss to #54 Monmouth on UCLA's home court (Dayton beat Monmouth on a neutral court). So I don't know how you could argue UCLA's losses were better than Dayton's. I would argue Dayton is even better in the loss category as Dayton's 2 losses and UCLA's 3 cancel themselves out, but oh yeah UCLA has a 4th.
So I am looking forward to hearing how Parish could rank UCLA ahead of Dayton -- he will have to use things like momentum, getting better, eye-test. Unfortunately, I think Parish scummed to the same biases he attacks as UCLA, Kentucky, and Gonzaga sound better than Dayton, Vandy, and Iowa even though empirically it is not so.
Do I think Dayton is a top 25 team, probably not. But Dayton should definitely be ranked ahead of UCLA, Baylor, etc.
BTW, Gonzaga is 3-3 top 100 and 0-0 top 25. Best win UConn #31, then drops all the way to #82 Tenn and #97 Washington. UConn is 2-3 top 100. Best wins #33 Michigan and #55 Ohio State. Baylor is 1-2 top 100. Best win #17 Vandy home. Baylor's 2nd best win is #125 SF Austin and 3rd best win is #213 Jackson State?!?!?!
So let's recap Baylor versus Dayton. Both teams are 8-2. Dayton is 5-2 top 100 whereas Baylor is 1-2. Dayton is 2-1 top 25 whereas Baylor is 1-0. Dayton's 2nd (#18), 3rd (#54 Monmouth), 4th (#72 William and Mary), 5th (#85 Alabama), and 6th (#122 N. Fl.) wins are better than Baylor's 2nd best win (#125 SF Austin). Baylor's 3rd-6th best wins are all to teams in the 200s.
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12-29-2015, 08:29 PM
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I'm okay with our ranking for now, we are not the team we will be this time next month and priming for March Madness.
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01-02-2016, 09:49 AM
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Another opportunity exists for the Flyers to crack the AP top 25 if they can take care of business at Duquesne this afternoon. Numbers 20 thru 25 could all have lost in the past week by the end of the day. Yesterday, in two overtime games, #21 Utah fell to Stanford 70-68 and #25 UCLA lost to Washington 96-93. Last Tuesday #22 Cincinnati lost to Temple 77-70. Undefeated #24 South Carolina has had a relatively easy schedule so far but plays a tough opponent in the Memphis Tigers today as does #23 Baylor who hosts Kansas today which will most probably result in a loss for them. Finally, Arkansas can do the Flyers a favor by knocking off #20 Texas A&M today.
There won't be much change at the top of the rankings except that #6 Xavier and #16 Villanova will switch places (although I don't think Xavier will fall that far). I am relieved
that Edwin Sumner was not hurt seriously and did not suffer a concussion in that hard foul by two Nova players.
I know that there are differing opinions as to whether it is better to be the hunter or the hunted and Archie prefers to be the hunter.
I think it would be neat to be ranked in the top 25 and set a goal to stay there clear till March!
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01-02-2016, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer
Another opportunity exists for the Flyers to crack the AP top 25 if they can take care of business at Duquesne this afternoon. Numbers 20 thru 25 could all have lost in the past week by the end of the day. Yesterday, in two overtime games, #21 Utah fell to Stanford 70-68 and #25 UCLA lost to Washington 96-93. Last Tuesday #22 Cincinnati lost to Temple 77-70. Undefeated #24 South Carolina has had a relatively easy schedule so far but plays a tough opponent in the Memphis Tigers today as does #23 Baylor who hosts Kansas today which will most probably result in a loss for them. Finally, Arkansas can do the Flyers a favor by knocking off #20 Texas A&M today.
There won't be much change at the top of the rankings except that #6 Xavier and #16 Villanova will switch places (although I don't think Xavier will fall that far). I am relieved
that Edwin Sumner was not hurt seriously and did not suffer a concussion in that hard foul by two Nova players.
I know that there are differing opinions as to whether it is better to be the hunter or the hunted and Archie prefers to be the hunter.
I think it would be neat to be ranked in the top 25 and set a goal to stay there clear till March!
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The fans like their teams to be ranked, the coaches not so much
To that end, here are some other games featuring teams in the 'also receiving votes' category:
Jan 2
UConn (9-3) @ Tulane (7-7) 7:30 PM - a must-win for UConn's postseason resume
Notre Dame (9-3) @ #5 Virginia (11-1) 5:00 PM - the Irish looking for a signature win
LSU (7-5) @ Vanderbilt (8-4) 9:00 PM - how the Commodores remain ahead of Dayton in the Coaches Poll is beyond me
Gonzaga (11-3) @ San Francisco (8-5) 11:00 PM -Zags big Karnowski out for the season
MD Eastern Shore (3-12) @ Pitt (11-1) 4:00 PM - another easy win on Pitt's cream-puff schedule
#4 Maryland (12-1) @ Northwestern (13-1) 8:00 PM - the Wildcats could vault into the rankings with a win here
Texas (8-4) @ Texas Tech (10-1) 2:00PM - both teams getting votes in both polls
Iowa (10-3) @ #14 Purdue (13-1) 6:00 PM - back-to-back wins over ranked teams could jump the Hawkeyes over the Flyers
Jan 3
Fordham (9-2) @ GW (11-2) 7:00 PM - telling A-10 matchup
#25 UCLA (9-5) @ Wash ST (8-5) 9:30 PM - another loss should drop UCLA off the radar
Oregon (11-2) @ Oregon ST (9-2) 9:30 PM
Colorado (11-3) @ Stanford (8-4) 10:00 PM
Of course, the biggest game of all - Dayton (10-2) @ Duquesne (10-3)
Go Flyers!
_____________________
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01-02-2016, 11:05 AM
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Hunter vs Hunted
At this point we are always going to be the hunted team in conference. We were the preseason pick to win the conference and finished second last year. It does not matter if we are ranked or not on how we are perceived by the other teams in our league. We are at the top of the most wanted list in terms of our conference so we better be ready each and every game.
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01-02-2016, 11:18 AM
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Gary Parrish just put us at #25 in his daily top-25 and 1. Iowa is the "1" at #26.
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01-02-2016, 12:21 PM
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Even with a win this afternoon, we would need to move up 6 spots to join the club...isn't that a tad wishful thinking?
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01-02-2016, 12:49 PM
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With our record and resume, if you put a Power 5 name to it, we are in the top 20
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01-02-2016, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt
Gary Parrish just put us at #25 in his daily top-25 and 1. Iowa is the "1" at #26.
Posted via Mobile Device
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...rankings/top25
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01-04-2016, 01:01 PM
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#27 in USA Today.
http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa.../coaches-poll/
South Carolina, Pitt, Gonzaga, Uconn, Baylor, and Cal should all be behind Dayton ...
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01-04-2016, 01:15 PM
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Pitt is the baffling one to me.
1-1 kenpom top 100.
Best 3 wins are #61 Cuse Home, #111 Davidson Neutral, and #127 Kent State Home.
Dayton 5-2 top top 100
Best 3 wins are #11 Iowa Neutral, #26 Vandy Road, #50 Monmouth Neutral.
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01-04-2016, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin
Pitt is the baffling one to me.
1-1 kenpom top 100.
Best 3 wins are #61 Cuse Home, #111 Davidson Neutral, and #127 Kent State Home.
Dayton 5-2 top top 100
Best 3 wins are #11 Iowa Neutral, #26 Vandy Road, #50 Monmouth Neutral.
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I assume the coach of duke is the acc representative.
Seriously, are the coaches ballots public?
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01-04-2016, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin
Pitt is the baffling one to me.
1-1 kenpom top 100.
Best 3 wins are #61 Cuse Home, #111 Davidson Neutral, and #127 Kent State Home.
Dayton 5-2 top top 100
Best 3 wins are #11 Iowa Neutral, #26 Vandy Road, #50 Monmouth Neutral.
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It's not that baffling if you think about how the polls work.
Most coaches only watch their opponents, and most writers only watch the teams and games they're assigned to cover. Other than that they just look at scores and records. Most probably don't even know who anyone has actually played and beaten outside of their own opponents. Pitt has a better record and didn't lose as recently as Dayton. That's the only reason they're higher. That's really the only way anyone moves up or down. The most important thing by far is how many games a team has lost and how recently they lost. The #15 team could play on the road against the #1 team and lose in overtime. If the #16 team played a buy game at home and won it, they'll still move ahead of the #15 team. That's how the polls have always worked, and that's why they're not reliable. They're interesting, and I like them, but they are extremely unreliable.
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01-04-2016, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80
I assume the coach of duke is the acc representative.
Seriously, are the coaches ballots public?
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List of Voters
Randy Bennett, Saint Mary's; Jim Boeheim, Syracuse; Todd Bozeman, Morgan State; Glenn Braica, St. Francis Brooklyn; Scott Cherry, High Point; Tim Cluess, Iona; Ed Conroy, Tulane; Keith Dambrot, Akron; Cameron Dollar, Seattle; Scott Drew, Baylor; Matt Driscoll, North Florida; Steve Fisher, San Diego State; Bruiser Flint, Drexel; Mark Fox, Georgia; John Gallagher, Hartford; Matthew Graves, South Alabama; Ray Harper, Western Kentucky; George Ivory, Arkansas-Pine Bluff; Ben Jacobson, Northern Iowa; Rob Jeter, Wisconsin-Milwaukee; James Jones, Yale; Mike McConathy, Northwestern State; Greg McDermott, Creighton; Chris Mooney, Richmond; Matt Painter, Purdue; Randy Rahe, Weber State; Heath Schroyer, Tennessee-Martin; Joe Scott, Denver; Zach Spiker, Army; Wayne Tinkle, Oregon State; Bob Williams, UC-Santa Barbara; Mike Young, Wofford.
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01-04-2016, 01:36 PM
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01-04-2016, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode
List of Voters
Randy Bennett, Saint Mary's; Jim Boeheim, Syracuse; Todd Bozeman, Morgan State; Glenn Braica, St. Francis Brooklyn; Scott Cherry, High Point; Tim Cluess, Iona; Ed Conroy, Tulane; Keith Dambrot, Akron; Cameron Dollar, Seattle; Scott Drew, Baylor; Matt Driscoll, North Florida; Steve Fisher, San Diego State; Bruiser Flint, Drexel; Mark Fox, Georgia; John Gallagher, Hartford; Matthew Graves, South Alabama; Ray Harper, Western Kentucky; George Ivory, Arkansas-Pine Bluff; Ben Jacobson, Northern Iowa; Rob Jeter, Wisconsin-Milwaukee; James Jones, Yale; Mike McConathy, Northwestern State; Greg McDermott, Creighton; Chris Mooney, Richmond; Matt Painter, Purdue; Randy Rahe, Weber State; Heath Schroyer, Tennessee-Martin; Joe Scott, Denver; Zach Spiker, Army; Wayne Tinkle, Oregon State; Bob Williams, UC-Santa Barbara; Mike Young, Wofford.
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Easy to see how Pitt got Boeheim's vote - Pitt beat Syracuse this season and Dayton hasn't beat Syracuse in 2 years.
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01-04-2016, 01:40 PM
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#27 in Coaches Poll. #9 in RPI. #30 in ESPN's "BPI". #43 in kenpom.com. #33 in Sagarin.
#31 in Massey Composite, which is a synthesis of 38 computer rankings, including Sagarin, BPI, and kenpom.
Last edited by priceg75; 01-04-2016 at 01:43 PM..
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01-04-2016, 01:43 PM
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or are they?
AP site lists UCLA #25.
http://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll
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01-04-2016, 01:47 PM
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It is all good. But for the fact that from a points stand point, even though UD is 27 in Coaches Poll, we are no where near actually getting in the poll itself. Cal is in the 26 spot, but they have 52 points. So, close chronologically, but not very close in the minds of most coaches doing the voting.
Congrats to Coach Miller, the staff, and the mostly the players for the #25 AP Ranking. They do deserve it based on record and schedule quality.
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