AP Poll Released

[ruechalgrin]

Oregon has a good resume, they should be ahead of the Flyers.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...on/DAYTON/OREG

[CE80]

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin Norte Dame!?!, http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...ison/DAYTON/ND Btw, both played Iowa, Monmouth, Alabama. ND 1-2 & Dayton 3-0. ND's 3rd best win of the year is Stony Brook home. UD 10-2 top 100 and ND 4-5.

They also lost to Indiana which I also think is questionable. They could go from being ranked to not making the tourney. Time will tell.

[forego1]

Look at it this way, St. Louie And Sallie are two **** poor teams at home.

MAYBE we move up one.

Next up: the very bottom with George (we actually stay ranked a week?)

LOSING that one to Sallie {SMH}

writers got bit voting for us.

Bitten once, shame on you
Bitten twice, shame on me

[ud2]

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin Oregon has a good resume, they should be ahead of the Flyers. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...on/DAYTON/OREG

Yeah, but isn't it unusual to jump over somebody like that when the team being jumped over did not lose? And it happened not once, but twice. Two teams jumped over us. We did our job, we won two back-to-back league games, and both games were on the road, St. B and Fordham.

	Fordham FORDHAM Fordham University is an independent Jesuit university established in 1841 as St. John's College on old Rose Hill Manor in the village of Fordham, then part of Westchester County in the Bronx, NY. The name Fordham is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words "ford" and "ham," meaning a wading place or ford by a settlement. Rose Hill is the name given to the site in 1787 by Robert Watts, a wealthy New York merchant, in honor of his family's ancestral home of the same name in Scotland. The College was originally staffed by diocesan clergy. The name was officially changed to Fordham University in 1907. Fordham's 10 schools enroll 14,448 students. There are 7,652 undergraduates, of whom 3,842 live in University-managed housing either on-campus or in the local community. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Rams. Athletic claim to fame is consistent mediocrity in nearly all sports and few A10 title winning programs.

[Beatty Town Coach]

General lack of respect for the Dayton program, still has a lot to do with it. Now that's the truth; and it's obvious.

[hessbz12]

Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach General lack of respect for the Dayton program, still has a lot to do with it. Now that's the truth; and it's obvious.

I agree 100%. I feel like we almost need to go undefeated to get the respect we deserve. I realize we lost to a bad LaSalle team on the road, but like someone earlier said, we did our job and won two games on the road.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[NJFlyr71]

OK I get that we were 'jobbed', disrespected but, from one stand point, it does not matter (except for the PR side).

We are knocking on the door at #26 for both meaningful polls, but one loss away from dropping back down too.

I think at the moment we are strong for the NCAA end of year bash and that my friends is the really BIG DEAL.

With the 2 road wins I hoped that maybe we would be ranked by not too worried or up-set about it not going that way.

Just win BABY! GOOD Things come to those that WAIT!

[CE80]

How much of a difference is there between 21-30? I say not a whole lot. I am not certain but I don't think any of those teams have losses to teams over rpi ranking of 200.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ruechalgrin]

Originally Posted by CE80 How much of a difference is there between 21-30? I say not a whole lot. I am not certain but I don't think any of those teams have losses to teams over rpi ranking of 200. Posted via Mobile Device

True, but don't believe many have beaten top 5 in kenpom either. Iowa now #2.

Dayton has a ton more top 100 and top 50 wins than other 21-30 teams and has one more really bad loss.

[UDDoug]

The poll voters don't scrub the data. Most do zero research, and barely know who won and lost last week.

[forego1]

After reflecting, I think the players are served better by missing the one spot.
{they pay attention a little, you can be sure}

No LaSallesque nonsense for the George Mason game. Then the team is looking for a probable 20-3 record returning home, before the 'hard' part of the schedule.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by forego1 After reflecting, I think the players are served better by missing the one spot. {they pay attention a little, you can be sure} No LaSallesque nonsense for the George Mason game. Then the team is looking for a probable 20-3 record returning home, before the 'hard' part of the schedule.

Pretty confident in looking past 2 games.
Posted via Mobile Device

[shapanud]

Duke lost and doesn't play again this week so they will most likely drop out.

[slysyl]

UD's problem is the league A10, is not respected; by the press and other coaches. Just win out and enjoy it with a decent seed in the show.

[frisco flyer]

I think if you visit the message board of all the teams that finished 26-30 in the polls you will find the fans complaining about disrespect, bias, lack of knowledge by the voters, etc. the truth is these polls are semi-quantitative at best, and subjectivity is a big part of the equation. It would've been nice to be ranked, but we didn't quite get there. But we are knocking on the door with a favorable schedule this week and next. If we take care of business, the rest should just fall into place.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer I think if you visit the message board of all the teams that finished 26-30 in the polls you will find the fans complaining about disrespect, bias, lack of knowledge by the voters, etc. the truth is these polls are semi-quantitative at best, and subjectivity is a big part of the equation. It would've been nice to be ranked, but we didn't quite get there. But we are knocking on the door with a favorable schedule this week and next. If we take care of business, the rest should just fall into place.

The problem with not getting the respect is that if we do take care of business like you said, we will have to continue to win, win, win and win some more to hold our position. I think there's a better than not chance that we will lose to a team we shouldn't have. This doesn't mean you don't belong in the top 25, it means that the odds catch up to you. We have a more difficult task getting in and we have an even harder task staying.

This is just like was mentioned before a problem with our conference as just about any loss from here on out is going to drop us like a hot potato.

Think back to those years when we clobbered a ranked Xavier team at the Arena. The voters recognized that losing at Dayton was like losing to a top 15 team and didn't penalize Xavier for that. We didn't get anything close to that benefit of the doubt when we got clobbered at Davidson last season. If I recall, we dropped to about 38th or something didn't we?

	Xavier XAVIER MUSKETEERS Dayton's biggest rival dating back to the early 1900s. Founded in 1831, Xavier University is a Jesuit, Catholic university in Cincinnati, Ohio. Its three colleges offer 78 undergraduate majors, 43 minors and 11 graduate programs to 6,646 total students, including 3,961 undergraduates. The University is the sixth-oldest Catholic university in the nation and one of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities nationwide. Xavier's nickname is the Musketeers and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[Chris R]

Originally Posted by UDDoug The poll voters don't scrub the data. Most do zero research, and barely know who won and lost last week.

I would suspect most still have assistants and interns ala Rick Majerus filling them out. They just havent been caught yet.

My issue with the polls and brackets is not that UD suffers life-threatening wounds. Its the hypocrisy of the entire dog and pony show. The news media and bracketologists fawn all over themselves as all-knowing, all-powerful, all-wise hoops junkies 24/7/365 and remind everyone how superior they are to everyone else's intellect. They literally cant stop talking about their own metrics, methods, polls, data, and inside information. Yet when it comes time to actually interrogate their work and hold them accountable to fair-minded, consistent application of their own playbook, you end up finding out they pretty much throw the playbook -- the one they cling to like religion -- out the window and ultimately just cherrypick the data to suit whatever narrative and interest they deem to be the more accurate truth.

Far too few folks call them out on it and hold these blowhards accountable in the media and in the polls. But as soon as the data supports their own cause for a particular favorite, these folks literally cannot run back to the spreadsheets fast enough to remind you of the "Top-50 wins" and "road wins". They play hide-the-ball with the data when its convenient, then point to the data as the truth serum when you even suggest there are any other factors at play.

Originally Posted by shapanud Duke...doesn't play again this week so they will most likely move up.

Fixed it for you.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Chris R I would suspect most still have assistants and interns ala Rick Majerus filling them out. They just havent been caught yet. My issue with the polls and brackets is not that UD suffers life-threatening wounds. Its the hypocrisy of the entire dog and pony show. The news media and bracketologists fawn all over themselves as all-knowing, all-powerful, all-wise hoops junkies 24/7/365 and remind everyone how superior they are to everyone else's intellect. They literally cant stop talking about their own metrics, methods, polls, data, and inside information. Yet when it comes time to actually interrogate their work and hold them accountable to fair-minded, consistent application of their own playbook, you end up finding out they pretty much throw the playbook -- the one they cling to like religion -- out the window and ultimately just cherrypick the data to suit whatever narrative and interest they deem to be the more accurate truth. Far too few folks call them out on it and hold these blowhards accountable in the media and in the polls. But as soon as the data supports their own cause for a particular favorite, these folks literally cannot run back to the spreadsheets fast enough to remind you of the "Top-50 wins" and "road wins". They play hide-the-ball with the data when its convenient, then point to the data as the truth serum when you even suggest there are any other factors at play.

Exhibit A: Dick Vitale
Exhibit B: Andy Katz

[CE80]

When is the media mock selection exercise?

Chris - are you attending again?

[TA111]

The one guy who does a good job is CBS' Gary Parrish who has a "poll attacks" article each week. He really goes after many of the voters for their complete ignorance.

[CE80]

It is going to be real interesting to see how the Big 10 plays out. Both Maryland and Indiana have done nothing to support their rankings. The Big 10 does not have the volume of strong teams to get quality wins against. This is where I have a problem with RPI. Maryland's RPI ranking is 12. Their best win is against #58 UConn. Their RPI is jacked up by playing (and losing to) #3 NC, #20 MSU and #31 Mich making them 0-3 against top 50. Their resume is not even tourney worthy but a victory against them is a top 25 win.

[forego1]

Originally Posted by CE80 Pretty confident in looking past 2 games. Posted via Mobile Device

Well, it is said within the context of AP poll discussion. Isn't the AP talk a moot issue with a loss to St Lou at home? I mean, did we ever even have a right to argue a non-ranking then?
As to LaSalle, I assure you if the Flyers lose that game, I won't even bother ever posting here again.. so deep my ire.

I don't play with that mulligan deal, but say anyway, Dayton had their one mulligan with LaSalle.

If Dayton is deserving of a top 25 they lose no more than two before
A-10 championship game.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by TA111 The one guy who does a good job is CBS' Gary Parrish who has a "poll attacks" article each week. He really goes after many of the voters for their complete ignorance.

Parrish needs to attack his own poll. CBS Sports 25 + 1 still has Butler at 25. I don't get it.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by forego1 Well, it is said within the context of AP poll discussion. Isn't the AP talk a moot issue with a loss to St Lou at home? I mean, did we ever even have a right to argue a non-ranking then? As to LaSalle, I assure you if the Flyers lose that game, I won't even bother ever posting here again.. so deep my ire. I don't play with that mulligan deal, but say anyway, Dayton had their one mulligan with LaSalle. If Dayton is deserving of a top 25 they lose no more than two before A-10 championship game.

I don't care what the line is against LaSalle, I would take the Flyers and the points. I have a feeling a 30 point blowout is coming. Can't imagine that this team isn't going to be out for blood.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[forego1]

"..and GIVE the points.."

[jack72]

And the prejudice in the voting is not just against UD, it is against non-basketball schools. Look at Oregon at 15-4, who barely made it this week, #5 in the RPI with #4 SOS and 8-1 against top 50. They play in the #2 league. Oregon is a huge name in college football.

Interesting the USAToday guy has them as a #2 seed today. And in Dancecard they are a #1.

[Marysville Flyer]

Respect is to be earned not demanded.

Reality is that for most of the past 10+ years UD has been the 16 year old son. Sure he keeps his room clean, gets decent grades and is respectful to his parents.

The problem is however that every time you leave him home alone, he throw a wild party and raids dad's liquor cabinet.

Until UD can handle respect, the voters will be rightfully hesitant to bestow any respect.

This team plays better when hungry and under appreciated. I say just go out and take care of business, do damage in the tourney and the heck with worrying about the polls.

[longtimefan67]

Agree- look at Duke, now losers of 4/5 games (yeah I know they have a key injury...deal with it). Duke MIGHT be left on the outside of the Top 25 IF all the stars align.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ud2]

But what did Oregon and Wichita do this past week that was so great as to merit jumping over UD?

[jack72]

Originally Posted by ud2 But what did Oregon and Wichita do this past week that was so great as to merit jumping over UD?

Oregon beat #21 USC and UCLA, so well deserved. Wichita St beat no one, NIU and Bradley, but they have the basketball rep.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by jack72 Oregon beat #21 USC and UCLA, so well deserved. Wichita St beat no one, NIU and Bradley, but they have the basketball rep.

So, I would say that we should be #25 this week, that seems fair IMO.

[Chris R]

Originally Posted by CE80 When is the media mock selection exercise? Chris - are you attending again?

We wont be there. Honestly I think we saw all we needed to see the first time.

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by ud2 So, I would say that we should be #25 this week, that seems fair IMO.

Well, the Flyers have some business to attend to before you can stake that claim . . .

_____________________
Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

[ruechalgrin]

#26 in ESPN power rankings as well -- the pundits are consistent.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask.../powerrankings

[CE80]

Boy do I want to see Indiana drop some games. Start tonight at Wisc.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by ud2 But what did Oregon and Wichita do this past week that was so great as to merit jumping over UD?

Wichita has won 9 straight since they got their key guys back from injuries and have won their last 5 by 21 points per game. Bad teams or not, that is impressive over a 5 game stretch in any league.

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by CE80 Boy do I want to see Indiana drop some games. Start tonight at Wisc.

But we don't want Crean to get fired.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Wichita has won 9 straight since they got their key guys back from injuries and have won their last 5 by 21 points per game. Bad teams or not, that is impressive over a 5 game stretch in any league.

That's what UD is missing. Winning is one thing and believe me I'll take it, but we need to beat bad teams by 20 not go for 10+ minute stretches barely scoring a point.

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Respect is to be earned not demanded. Reality is that for most of the past 10+ years UD has been the 16 year old son. Sure he keeps his room clean, gets decent grades and is respectful to his parents. The problem is however that every time you leave him home alone, he throw a wild party and raids dad's liquor cabinet. Until UD can handle respect, the voters will be rightfully hesitant to bestow any respect. This team plays better when hungry and under appreciated. I say just go out and take care of business, do damage in the tourney and the heck with worrying about the polls.

AMEN MARY!

Just take care of the wins and nothing else matters.

[TA111]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Wichita has won 9 straight since they got their key guys back from injuries and have won their last 5 by 21 points per game. Bad teams or not, that is impressive over a 5 game stretch in any league.

Wichita State is an interesting case and will really test the committee's criteria if they don't get the auto bid. The MVC is really bad this year with no top 50 RPI teams other than Wichita State and only one other team even in the top 100. Thus the Shockers will get zero good wins out of their conference and will end the season with only 1 top 50 win and 2 top 100 wins. That is a really poor resume for at large consideration and may be why Dance Card has them missing the tourney right now.

[IAFlyer]

Originally Posted by Chris R We wont be there. Honestly I think we saw all we needed to see the first time.

Better Question - do you think the committee really follows that exercise?

[IAFlyer]

Originally Posted by jack72 And the prejudice in the voting is not just against UD, it is against non-basketball schools. Look at Oregon at 15-4, who barely made it this week, #5 in the RPI with #4 SOS and 8-1 against top 50. They play in the #2 league. Oregon is a huge name in college football. Interesting the USAToday guy has them as a #2 seed today. And in Dancecard they are a #1.

Prior to this week, I did a little analysis of where teams were ranked vs. their RPI ranking. I then checked to see how the Power 5 (football) conferences do in terms of bias and how 'perennial' basketball powers do. What I found is that the difference b/w Power 5 and non-power 5 was negligible.

However, there was a huge bias toward the 'perennial' b-ball teams and their ranking vs. RPI (see Gonzaga, Butler, Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, UNC, etc.). The schools that have built a reputation in b-ball get better rankings than they otherwise might deserve.

[Chris R]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Respect is to be earned not demanded. Reality is that for most of the past 10+ years UD has been the 16 year old son. Sure he keeps his room clean, gets decent grades and is respectful to his parents. The problem is however that every time you leave him home alone, he throw a wild party and raids dad's liquor cabinet. Until UD can handle respect, the voters will be rightfully hesitant to bestow any respect. This team plays better when hungry and under appreciated. I say just go out and take care of business, do damage in the tourney and the heck with worrying about the polls.

I think the frustration is that you describe the current conditions, rather than the defined conditions. The current conditions dictate that past performance matters in being ranked this year -- stuff that happened years ago with names and faces that no longer even exist in the program -- sometimes even coaches.

The defined conditions dictate however that any prior year's performance has absolutely no causation whatsoever with what is happening this season. Dayton's Elite-8 run should have no bearing on where the 2015-16 team is ranked or how they are evaluated. What the left hand holds has nothing to do with what the right hand holds.

As you point out, most pollsters have an inability to make this distinction and cannot cut the umbilical cord of past unrelated performance to current climates. Winning or losing in any other season than this season is not what is being evaluated, nor what is being asked to be evaluated. You are being asked to evaluate a finite set of conditions within a very narrow window.

And if that's not the case and past performance does matter, then the punters need to just come out and admit that Arizona got into the NCAA tournament a couple years ago because they were Arizona and not because of anything they did to deserve it otherwise in that specific season.

[anthonycharles]

Originally Posted by CE80 Boy do I want to see Indiana drop some games. Start tonight at Wisc.

Originally Posted by longtimefan But we don't want Crean to get fired.

I'm pulling for either Iowa or Indiana to win the Big Ten.

Iowa for the obvious reason that it helps UD's sos.

Indiana so Crean can finally win over some fans and boosters and remain the HC.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by TA111 Wichita State is an interesting case and will really test the committee's criteria if they don't get the auto bid. The MVC is really bad this year with no top 50 RPI teams other than Wichita State and only one other team even in the top 100. Thus the Shockers will get zero good wins out of their conference and will end the season with only 1 top 50 win and 2 top 100 wins. That is a really poor resume for at large consideration and may be why Dance Card has them missing the tourney right now.

Yes. But they also add in the factor that almost all their losses are without VanVleet. And with him they destroy teams.

[shapanud]

Originally Posted by anthonycharles I'm pulling for either Iowa or Indiana to win the Big Ten. Iowa for the obvious reason that it helps UD's sos. Indiana so Crean can finally win over some fans and boosters and remain the HC.

Indiana's early Big 10 schedule has been absurdly easy.

Indiana's conference opponents so far have a 59% overall winning percentage. None of the other 13 teams have played a conference schedule so far with opponents having less than a 70% winning percentage. Reality for IU, whatever it may be, will be realized between now and the end of the regular season.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Wichita State is an interesting case and will really test the committee's criteria if they don't get the auto bid. The MVC is really bad this year with no top 50 RPI teams other than Wichita State and only one other team even in the top 100. Thus the Shockers will get zero good wins out of their conference and will end the season with only 1 top 50 win and 2 top 100 wins. That is a really poor resume for at large consideration and may be why Dance Card has them missing the tourney right now.

Originally Posted by UDDoug Yes. But they also add in the factor that almost all their losses are without VanVleet. And with him they destroy teams.

You want to evaluate WSU with only games VanVleet played? Then take out the Advocare tourney games altogether. Don't assume they would win them. No games against USC, Alabama or Iowa. Eliminate those games from their RPI calculation. Would that help or hurt their RPI? What's left of significance? They lost @Tulsa, @Seton Hall. Beat Utah at home. Then they have feasted on the MVC teams.

Is that tourney worthy?

[UD62]

Originally Posted by CE80 Originally Posted by TA111 View Post Wichita State is an interesting case and will really test the committee's criteria if they don't get the auto bid. The MVC is really bad this year with no top 50 RPI teams other than Wichita State and only one other team even in the top 100. Thus the Shockers will get zero good wins out of their conference and will end the season with only 1 top 50 win and 2 top 100 wins. That is a really poor resume for at large consideration and may be why Dance Card has them missing the tourney right now. You want to evaluate WSU with only games VanVleet played? Then take out the Advocare tourney games altogether. Don't assume they would win them. No games against USC, Alabama or Iowa. Eliminate those games from their RPI calculation. Would that help or hurt their RPI? What's left of significance? They lost @Tulsa, @Seton Hall. Beat Utah at home. Then they have feasted on the MVC teams. Is that tourney worthy?

No but they will be "gathering steam"

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by CE80 Originally Posted by TA111 View Post Wichita State is an interesting case and will really test the committee's criteria if they don't get the auto bid. The MVC is really bad this year with no top 50 RPI teams other than Wichita State and only one other team even in the top 100. Thus the Shockers will get zero good wins out of their conference and will end the season with only 1 top 50 win and 2 top 100 wins. That is a really poor resume for at large consideration and may be why Dance Card has them missing the tourney right now. You want to evaluate WSU with only games VanVleet played? Then take out the Advocare tourney games altogether. Don't assume they would win them. No games against USC, Alabama or Iowa. Eliminate those games from their RPI calculation. Would that help or hurt their RPI? What's left of significance? They lost @Tulsa, @Seton Hall. Beat Utah at home. Then they have feasted on the MVC teams. Is that tourney worthy?

The lost against Tulsa was the game VanVleet was injured. He did not play at all down the stretch. They also lost their backup point guard prior to that game. They were playing walk-ons and players out of position while VanVleet was out. Also remember, the first game of the Orlando tourney they lost their starting center Anton Grady, who is a beast. Maybe living and working in Valley country has skewed my opinion, but I have been watching Wichita absolutely destroy people for weeks now. In my opinion they are Sweet 16 or better good. They are not the team their numbers show.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 The lost against Tulsa was the game VanVleet was injured. He did not play at all down the stretch. They also lost their backup point guard prior to that game. They were playing walk-ons and players out of position while VanVleet was out. Also remember, the first game of the Orlando tourney they lost their starting center Anton Grady, who is a beast. Maybe living and working in Valley country has skewed my opinion, but I have been watching Wichita absolutely destroy people for weeks now. In my opinion they are Sweet 16 or better good. They are not the team their numbers show.

Ah, the eye test.

I am not really arguing with you. Just a little devil's advocate. The reality is that WSU will not have much on paper this year to prove their worth. I believe they are looking really good against the MVC teams they are playing but face it, the MVC is not at the top of their game this year. Odds are WSU wins their conference tourney and who knows they may go undefeated getting there. Then the only discussion how should they be seeded. However, if they get tripped up along the way, especially in the conference tourney, things will get real interesting. Their will other teams with similar resumes. Let's see if they all get treated the same or if the eye test or if previous season's results are more heavily considered for WSU.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by CE80 Ah, the eye test. I am not really arguing with you. Just a little devil's advocate. The reality is that WSU will not have much on paper this year to prove their worth. I believe they are looking really good against the MVC teams they are playing but face it, the MVC is not at the top of their game this year. Odds are WSU wins their conference tourney and who knows they may go undefeated getting there. Then the only discussion how should they be seeded. However, if they get tripped up along the way, especially in the conference tourney, things will get real interesting. Their will other teams with similar resumes. Let's see if they all get treated the same or if the eye test or if previous season's results are more heavily considered for WSU.

I agree with a lot of that. The problem is because of their injuries you have to rate them on the eye test. Like us, they put a lot of their OOC on the Orlando tourney. Just like BRob's senior year, we had the numbers to get in, but how we played without CW kept us out. The eye test kept us out. How they are playing with VanVleet and Grady should put them in. Plus, they are currently a top 25 team, and by Selection Sunday they should be a top 15 team if they keep winning. Getting higher into the rankings will help secure their spot even if they have another loss.

[ruechalgrin]

Wichita State will likely end up 1-3 top 50 and 2-2 51-100.

Dayton was 1-3 top 50 last year and had a better 51-100 ranking and the Flyers were last in. Will be interesting to see where Wichita State ends up without an auto-bid. Even with an auto-bid, if committee is consistent (and doesn't rely too much on injury excuse), they should be no better than a 11.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask.../DAYTON/WICHST

[UDDoug]

My guess is if Wichita State runs the table regular season (seems likely), and gets upset in the semis or finals if Arch Madness, they get no worse than a 6 seed. I actually expect a 3 or 4. The committee is not going to ignore Grady and VanVleet being out and what they did with them. Not are they going to ignore what VanVleet and Baker have done over the course if their career. Granted, each year is different, but all of that is going to factor into how they evaluate Wicihita States season. I think they are one of the 10 best teams in the country, maybe top 5.

Dayton squeezed in last year, and was probably under seeded. But they also lost late season games to Duquesne and LaSalle. Those two losses probably dropped then 8 to 10 spots on the S curve.
Posted via Mobile Device

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by UDDoug My guess is if Wichita State runs the table regular season (seems likely), and gets upset in the semis or finals if Arch Madness, they get no worse than a 6 seed. I actually expect a 3 or 4. The committee is not going to ignore Grady and VanVleet being out and what they did with them. Not are they going to ignore what VanVleet and Baker have done over the course if their career. Granted, each year is different, but all of that is going to factor into how they evaluate Wicihita States season. I think they are one of the 10 best teams in the country, maybe top 5. Dayton squeezed in last year, and was probably under seeded. But they also lost late season games to Duquesne and LaSalle. Those two losses probably dropped then 8 to 10 spots on the S curve. Posted via Mobile Device

If the committee seeds them that high whether they win or lose the MVC tourney, they are making a leap that WSU would have won those games in Orlando or at least go 2-1. That is BS. Take those games out of the equation and WSU has a resume that would make them borderline for an at large bid. Let's see where Dance Card has them and where they get seeded.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

	LaSalle LA SALLE In 1863, La Salle University was established through the legacy of St. John Baptist de La Salle and the Christian Brothers teaching order, which De La Salle founded 300 years ago. Located in Philadelphia, La Salle is an educational community shaped by traditional Catholic and Lasallian values. La Salle's main campus is an ideal place for students to pursue an education. The 130-acre park-like setting includes 54 buildings and is located approximately six miles from Center City Philadelphia. The University can accommodate 2,114 resident students in its 12 residence halls, two apartment complexes, and 75 townhouses. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Explorers. Notable athletes include Tom Gola and Lionel Simmons.

[lhsgolf19]

Back in at #24

[Radar]

Quick, someone take a snapshot and send to Duke:

c/o Mike Krxyzewski, Luke Kennard

[jack72]

First time in eight years Duke is not in, and they are suicidal. We finally just eke in, and we are ecstatic. It's all relative.

[shapanud]

Here's the full poll:

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasket...ball_poll.html

Duke isn't even close. Only 6 total votes.

[redbengal]

Now for the questions I've been waiting to ask. First, when was the last time the Flyers got back into a major poll in the same season after being in and then falling out? For us old timers that means Top 20 (not 25) back in the old days. It also means UPI from years ago. Not sure what other major ones (20 or 25) had once existed. I'm only referring to AP and USA Today Coaches polls these days.

The other related question would be what is the quickest that the Flyers have re-entered a major poll after dropping out? I ask that question because it is my feeling that the reputation Archie, the team, and the program have built up in only 2 short years is manifesting itself in the entrance back into both the AP and USA Today polls this week.

[SC_Flyer]

As a South Carolina resident, I am truly happy that the Gamecocks are doing well as it is great for hoops in this football heavy area of the country. However, I cannot understand how the Gamecocks could be ranked higher in the USA Today/ESPN Poll than the Flyers. They are 6-1 against the Top 100 RPI, but have 0 Top 50 games. Their SOS Rank is 223rd.

It is true that the teams ranked in the 20s are essentially a revolving door, so we need to keep winning and break the teens already.

[Angry John]

I can't believe the pollsters threw Duke out of the Top 25 in exchange for us. I can hear the media elites like Jay Bilas and Seth Davis cry about that. I guess it could be worse if Billy Fudge Packer and Digger Phelps were back on TV. Their cries and attacks would be worse. Digger went off on Dayton a couple of times when Dayton got in the NCAATournament over his beloved Notre Dame.

[ruechalgrin]

Dayton #24 in usatoday coaches poll as well.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by redbengal Now for the questions I've been waiting to ask. First, when was the last time the Flyers got back into a major poll in the same season after being in and then falling out? For us old timers that means Top 20 (not 25) back in the old days. It also means UPI from years ago. Not sure what other major ones (20 or 25) had once existed. I'm only referring to AP and USA Today Coaches polls these days. The other related question would be what is the quickest that the Flyers have re-entered a major poll after dropping out? I ask that question because it is my feeling that the reputation Archie, the team, and the program have built up in only 2 short years is manifesting itself in the entrance back into both the AP and USA Today polls this week.

I looked recently related to another thread, and it's not since pre-JOB years I believe.

[steve]

And UD is assured of staying there probably the longest it has in years due to not playing again for another 5 days...lol

[Gazoo]

Looks like either George Mason or Duquesne just won the scheduling lottery.

	Duquesne DUQUESNE Duquesne University is a private, coeducational university, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania located on 48 secluded acres, on a bluff above downtown. Founded in 1878 as a Catholic college by the Order of the Holy Spirit. It is the only Spiritan institution of higher education in the world. Duquesne offers 10 schools of study and 100 degree programs to 6,000 undergraduates and 3,800 graduate students. Fellow members of the A10 Conference. Nickname is the Dukes.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by redbengal Now for the questions I've been waiting to ask. First, when was the last time the Flyers got back into a major poll in the same season after being in and then falling out? For us old timers that means Top 20 (not 25) back in the old days. It also means UPI from years ago. Not sure what other major ones (20 or 25) had once existed. I'm only referring to AP and USA Today Coaches polls these days.

Per the below link, regarding the AP poll, UD has never been ranked, dropped out, and then re-entered the AP poll in the same season until now. Wow.


http://collegepollarchive.com/mbaske...9#.Vq-w5OhOnxA

[Glen Clark]

Clawing their way back into the top 25 = sweet.
Replacing Duke = priceless!

_____________________
Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by Glen Clark Clawing their way back into the top 25 = sweet. Replacing Duke = priceless! _____________________ Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

Let me be the first to start the latest 'hold your breath rumor'

Archie to Duke - say it ain't so

[lhsgolf19]

Crazy Stat!

David Jablonski ‏@DavidPJablonski · 58s58 seconds ago
This is the first time since 1974 Dayton has ranked ahead of Duke. Of course, Flyers weren't ranked at all from 1975 through 1999.

[udx2]

There is a little bit of separation between 24 UD and 25 So Carolina in the AP poll (168 pts to 87) and between 24 UD and 25 St. Mary's in the Coaches poll (120 to 61).

Noted that in the AP poll, Arizona is 23rd -- something for Archie to aim for.

Just keep winning!

[66flyer]

Back in the rankings--Sweet! Replacing Duke! Priceless!! That's even better than just being ranked. Feels good to know even the "big boys" have a down year every now and then.
Now to stay there for a while--looking good right now.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Looks like either George Mason or Duquesne just won the scheduling lottery.

Add Richmond to that. They get to play GMU on Wednesday. We all know that GMU will be practicing all week to take out the Flyers and not give a crap about their Wednesday game.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by steve And UD is assured of staying there probably the longest it has in years due to not playing again for another 5 days...lol

They stayed in a long time in 2002-03, but that's 13 years ago.

Of course, this stay could be as short as the last - 1 week - as they have the opportunity to lose to GM before the next poll.

[Flyer Al]

Any doubt about the seriousness which some people take with their ballots is confirmed by this yayhoo.

http://collegepolltracker.com/basket...y/2015/week-13

Indiana at #4? So many other bad selections. There is absolutely NO justification for putting IU at #4.

[Mich Flyer]

How they voted.

http://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollsters/2015

[MikeF]

Originally Posted by Flyer Al Any doubt about the seriousness which some people take with their ballots is confirmed by this yayhoo. http://collegepolltracker.com/basket...y/2015/week-13 Indiana at #4? So many other bad selections. There is absolutely NO justification for putting IU at #4.

That clown's poll is all over the place. I like Indiana being 18 spots higher than their final ranking, but he also has five other "extreme picks" to his name.

I like Dayton getting the attention which comes with being ranked, but I don't sweat the polls that much. I think they're popularity contests where the geeks and nerds are made to feel honored in the cool kids let them sit at the cool kids table for a little bit. But, if the Associated Press and the coaches' organization want their polls to be taken seriously, it would be a good step if the people filling out the polls acted as if they had a clue. Clowns like this Doughty guy aren't helping.

[springborofan]

Originally Posted by ruechalgrin Wichita State will likely end up 1-3 top 50 and 2-2 51-100. Dayton was 1-3 top 50 last year and had a better 51-100 ranking and the Flyers were last in. Will be interesting to see where Wichita State ends up without an auto-bid. Even with an auto-bid, if committee is consistent (and doesn't rely too much on injury excuse), they should be no better than a 11. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask.../DAYTON/WICHST

Yep, I can see the committee matching up UD 6 and Wichita State 11 in a first round game. Whether it is UD or not, you can bet your life savings that if WSU is a 10/11/12 seed they will NOT play a P5 team in the first round!

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by springborofan Yep, I can see the committee matching up UD 6 and Wichita State 11 in a first round game. Whether it is UD or not, you can bet your life savings that if WSU is a 10/11/12 seed they will NOT play a P5 team in the first round!

That would be like UD/Tulsa all over again.

[1903 Flyer]

Originally Posted by Flyer Al Indiana at #4? So many other bad selections. There is absolutely NO justification for putting IU at #4.

That guy's insane. Indiana isn't even the 4th best team in the B10!

Seriously: Iowa...Maryland...Mich St...Purdue...

[JimBo]

Do we now worry about losing Archie to Duke?? ��

[FlyerinChicago]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer Let me be the first to start the latest 'hold your breath rumor' Archie to Duke - say it ain't so

funny you should say that. I had the same thought today...coach K getting the
boot next year as the university believes it may need a new voice after all these
years. Archie would not be able to turn that job down...nor would he receive any
flak were he to accept.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by FlyerinChicago funny you should say that. I had the same thought today...coach K getting the boot next year as the university believes it may need a new voice after all these years. Archie would not be able to turn that job down...nor would he receive any flak were he to accept. Posted via Mobile Device

Coach K getting the boot? Slim & none, and Slim just left town.

[maddog07]

5 ncaa championships, 12 final 4s, 12 regs season and 13 tournament ACC titles, 2 Olympic gold medals, 950 plus wins, etc..... In exchange for Archie who has yet to win a conference championship. Sure!!
Posted via Mobile Device

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Jeff Coach K getting the boot? Slim & none, and Slim just left town.

Getting the boot one season removed from one of many national titles? "Slim" was never in town.

And coach K is not going to hang it up after a season like this one, he would want to go out on top and he's got a knack for building to that pretty easily.

[frisco flyer]

Things are getting frustrating down on Tobacco Road, but coach K isn't going anywhere...
Unless he follows in his mentor's footsteps and starts tossing chairs and other dangerous implements across the court.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by FlyerinChicago funny you should say that. I had the same thought today...coach K getting the boot next year as the university believes it may need a new voice after all these years. Archie would not be able to turn that job down...nor would he receive any flak were he to accept. Posted via Mobile Device

To continue what others have said, have you seen the recruiting class he has coming in? Number 1 and 2 players in the country, number 1 overall class...as others have said, he isn't going anywhere.

[steve]

Originally Posted by FlyerinChicago funny you should say that. I had the same thought today...coach K getting the boot next year as the university believes it may need a new voice after all these years. Archie would not be able to turn that job down...nor would he receive any flak were he to accept. Posted via Mobile Device

LMAO.Ridiculous comment .

[CE80]

Originally Posted by FlyerinChicago funny you should say that. I had the same thought today...coach K getting the boot next year as the university believes it may need a new voice after all these years. Archie would not be able to turn that job down...nor would he receive any flak were he to accept. Posted via Mobile Device

Originally Posted by steve LMAO.Ridiculous comment .

Which is the ridiculous comment? Coach K getting the boot or nor would he receive any flak were he to accept?

I think both.

While I would not begrudge Archie any opportunity, I would certainly give flak for going to Duke.

[TerryK_67]

When the coach becomes bigger than the program, things don't usually end well... ex Woody, RMK, .... It would not at all surprise me to see the venerable one here do something stupid!

[jack72]

Living down here, I can tell you there are zero rumors of Coach K retiring, but who knows. As to being let go, that will happen the day after Archie is fired.

Duke's best player broke his foot a month ago and is expected back, and their recruiting class next year may be #1.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by jack72 Living down here, I can tell you there are zero rumors of Coach K retiring, but who knows. As to being let go, that will happen the day after Archie is fired. Duke's best player broke his foot a month ago and is expected back, and their recruiting class next year may be #1.

That's the problem at a place like Duke, their first line can compete but once someone gets injured or in foul trouble they just can't compete.

Wait, does that only apply to non-P5 schools?

[rollo]

Only on UDPride could a tongue-in-cheek comment about Coach K retiring so Duke could steal Archie Miller actually catch fire and generate serious commentary.

Sorry...Gotta go...just saw a Bigfoot mating with a Unicorn in Oakwood!

News at 11!

[Levelbest]

UD up to #20 in the CBS Top 25 & 1

[TerryK_67]

Well both Indiana and Doooook beat crap teams last night so both will likely jump over us back into the top 25.... leaving us out again.....
I had a room mate at UD who grew up on the farm, and he always said "hind teat is better than no teat".....
GO FLYERS!

[hessbz12]

Kentucky should drop out and South Carolina will. We just have to keep winning. All we can do!

[Medford]

IU was already in, Michigan isn't a crap team this season, they were getting votes and stand a good shot to make the dance, certainly the NIT at worst. That was a solid win for IU last night. GTech isn't as good as Michigan, but they are a fringe NIT team, not crap, but winning there would be the equivalent to UD winning at Richmond. Solid, but not spectacular.

Duke isn't going to jump UD off that win however.

SC is definently out of the top 25, UK will drop depending on how they do in their next game vs Florida. By the nature of the polls, a UD win on saturday will likely see them move up to around 22nd unless things get really whacky the rest of the week.

	Richmond UNIVERSITY OF RICHMOND Founded in 1830, the private liberal arts university in the Commonwealth boasts 2,800 students in 57 majors within its picturesque 350-acre campus. The Robins School of Business is one of the Top-20 business schools in the country. Nickname is the Spiders and are fellow A10 Conference members.

[jack72]

Originally Posted by rollo Only on UDPride could a tongue-in-cheek comment about Coach K retiring so Duke could steal Archie Miller actually catch fire and generate serious commentary. Sorry...Gotta go...just saw a Bigfoot mating with a Unicorn in Oakwood! News at 11!

I hope you're happy. You guys jinxed Coach K. First game he has misses in 12 years, which was the last time they missed the dance. He has aged considerably the last couple of years, and at 69, he probably is thinking more and more about gardening full time.
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/c...e58043453.html

[longtimefan]

Originally Posted by jack72 I hope you're happy. You guys jinxed Coach K. First game he has missed in 12 years, which was the last time they missed the dance. He has aged considerably the last couple of years, and at 69, he probably is thinking more and more about gardening full time. http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/c...e58043453.html

When you said he hadn't missed a game in 12 years the first thing I thought was, didn't he miss a bunch of games with a bad back just a few years ago. Then I read the article and that was 94-95! Holy crap, time flies and I'm getting older fast!

[ud2]

#19/20 Kentucky and #23 South Carolina lost this week.

[Levelbest]

No #19 in the CBS Top 25 & 1 - sure would be nice to get a win Saturday to keep this going... http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...rankings/top25