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12-19-2014, 02:35 PM
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Archie will have to earn his coaching stripes this season....
There will have to be major changes to game strategy now.
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12-19-2014, 03:50 PM
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Egad, are you saying he didn't earn his stripes last season? He has earned his way since arriving.
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12-19-2014, 03:57 PM
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DAYTON — Sean Henry Scott Sr., the father of Devon Scott, posted a message to Facebook and emailed the Dayton Daily News on Friday in regards to the recent news about his son.
Scott and his fellow junior forward at Dayton, Jalen Robinson, were dismissed from the men’s basketball team on Wednesday. According to a source, the dismissal is related to a series of thefts from residence halls on campus.
Scott Sr. wrote, “We would like to publicly thank Coach (Archie) Miller and the entire coaching staff and athletic department for their support and for the opportunities they have provided to Devon. We wish the Flyers the best for success in the rest of the season. Our family is supporting Devon as he looks to the future. Beyond that, this is a private family matter and the family has no further comment. Please continue to pray for both Devon and Jalen.”
http://www.whio.com/news/sports/coll...itter_2014_sfp
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12-19-2014, 03:57 PM
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Flyer Volleyball Superfan. Almost 8,000 Posts To Prove It.
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rollo - I'll take your responses one at a time.
"was doing"/"was suppose to be doing" -- I agree. This was on Devon Scott. Like I said, if you read between the lines, I think UD told him they were suspending him from basketball for a while to get his house in order and based on if he did or did not do that in a manner acceptable to the University, he would not be brought back. What I don't understand is why you think the University should have or could have done things differently here. It was Scott's responsibility to fix his behavior or he was out. He may have played the game and said what he needed to and done what he needed to be brought back to the team that time. Hindsight is 20-20 and UD didn't have that advantage to formulate their actions last spring. Could they have done like Kav and suspended him for a year? It was probably discussed. But he didn't hit the girlfriend so proportionally I'd say Scott and Kav were dealt with in equal manners - meaning the time of suspension was proportionate to the alleged "crimes". The difference is in the end, Kav got it together and Scott did not. But there is no way UD could have predicted either out come at the time they handed down the suspensions.
Parents - this is my mis-type. My intent was to say if the parents of Scott and Robinson can't control them at this age, why are you blaming UD for their behavior? And your response actually supports this -- you've raised your 18 yr old to respect people, live by a high standard and be responsible for their actions. Scott and Robinson actions indicate they were not raised with that same kind of guidance or they made bad decisions to live their life in another manner once they got into their late teens. If you haven't "blamed" the parents who had them for approximately 18 years, why blame UD who had them for less than 3? And based on Devon Scott's dad's posting above, I'd say they are disappointed in Scott and Robinson's decisions too. The point I was making is kids and young adults sometimes make stupid decisions no matter how many positive adult influences they have had. I don't believe UD messed up. I believe these young men made bad decisions no one could have predicted or planned any better to try to prevent.
List of solutions: I'm not sure what you mean by some of these, but here is my best guess.
Curfews - I'm sure the team has them. Are you saying they don't?
Social Media/Snapchat/Facetime - Not sure what you mean here -- are you saying the team should not be allowed to use these? How is that tied to their alleged actions?
Cell Phone Tracker - Are you serious? Maybe I'm behind the times here, but it's hard for me to imagine a University allowing a coach to track their players. I'd like to know if you know of a program doing this and can name them.
Evening Study Tables - They have these. A few years ago, I knew a freshman student athlete at UD and was told that they had mandatory study tables. It was so many hours per week they had to be at study tables and most put in their time after practice at night. After their freshman year, their GPA dictated how many hours they had each semester at Study Tables. So the students that pulled good grades were given more room to manage their academics. Those who had lower GPAs had more required hours.
5 am Practices - I can only guess your reasoning here -- if they had to get up at 4 am to be at practice by 5 am they go to bed early and don't get into trouble????? The alleged thefts took place between 3 am and 4 am. They simply would have gone to practice after hitting the dorms. I don't think that would have deterred them in this case. And I do know of a UD coach using early practices as a punishment. Several-several years ago a star volleyball player was charged with disorderly conduct after coming home late after a night out and causing a scene. The police were called. The whole team took the hit as the coach set early morning practices as the consequence. My guess this isn't the first time early practices have been ordered by UD coaches for behavior issues. We just don't hear about them. Did you know about the vball one?
Student managers - are you suggesting UD have student managers assigned to student athletes that follow them around and report back to the coach if they do anything wrong? Seriously? You think UD should assign babysitters? And in this case it would have had to be a team of babysitters so someone would have been on-duty at 3 in the morning. I can not believe anyone has 24-hour student managers.
Pain/Suffering -- I assume you mean hard conditioning at practice and not torture. I haven't heard of any conditioning problems with Scott and Robinson -- so I'm sure, like all coaches, the athletes get pushed plenty in practice.
Serious Consequences on the 1st Offense -- I'm all for this. So please outline what these two have done in the past and what the consequences were that fell short in your opinion.
Thanks for your help.
Last edited by BeckysTXA; 12-19-2014 at 04:02 PM..
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12-19-2014, 04:05 PM
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Brigadier General
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
Egad, are you saying he didn't earn his stripes last season? He has earned his way since arriving.
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I took it more to mean that he has quite the coaching challenge ahead of him and he has to essentially start fresh. Didn't take it as a slam at all...as others have already noted, if he can somehow coach them to some success this year, he will have earned several additional stripes!
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12-19-2014, 04:12 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA
Serious Consequences on the 1st Offense -- I'm all for this. So please outline what these two have done in the past and what the consequences were that fell short in your opinion.
Thanks for your help.
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I know your new on the mens basketball board, so you have missed what has been posted in the past. Please save all the rest of us on the board from having to rehash this one. Please click on Rollos name, then click find all posts by Rollo. Happy reading through his 7030 posts, many from the last 2+ years of which deal with these two.
Both have a very long and lengthy list both before coming to UD and since arriving at UD. I am all for giving a kid a chance, but after 4, 5, 6 or how many ever it has been NO WAY.
Happy reading.
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12-19-2014, 04:12 PM
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Becky...you are pretty much on target with my line of thinking...there are plenty of schools, for instance, who have team managers in charge of making sure certain student athletes get to class...and there's no reason why they also can't be assigned to make sure they're don't go to Tim's.
But instead of replying to each of your comments...not because I don't want to but because everyone here by now knows my position on each...tell me/us about how the VB team handles their players.
I have a good friend whose daughter is on the team and I sat with them at a recent game. According to the dad, the VB team has a strict no-drinking policy...right? He also said they have other policies that I wish were applicable to all UD athletes, not just the female variety!
And if he is accurate, why the disparity? If there truly are men's and women's 'rules', isn't that a Title IX issue...and if not, what is???
Thanks!!
__________________
I shaved my balls for this?
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12-19-2014, 04:19 PM
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Flyer Volleyball Superfan. Almost 8,000 Posts To Prove It.
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I knew a player on the team during the THI era -- so I can only assume things are done pretty much the same now that TH is the head coach once again.
Back then the TEAM voted on the drinking policy and that year's team voted no drinking during the season. It wasn't a coach mandate. That might explain why some teams drink during the season why others do not.
The early morning practice thing happened during the Sheffield era.
Any other specifics you want to ask about, I'll answer if I can.
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12-19-2014, 04:25 PM
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Classy response
Originally Posted by Sea Bass
DAYTON — Sean Henry Scott Sr., the father of Devon Scott, posted a message to Facebook and emailed the Dayton Daily News on Friday in regards to the recent news about his son.
Scott and his fellow junior forward at Dayton, Jalen Robinson, were dismissed from the men’s basketball team on Wednesday. According to a source, the dismissal is related to a series of thefts from residence halls on campus.
Scott Sr. wrote, “We would like to publicly thank Coach (Archie) Miller and the entire coaching staff and athletic department for their support and for the opportunities they have provided to Devon. We wish the Flyers the best for success in the rest of the season. Our family is supporting Devon as he looks to the future. Beyond that, this is a private family matter and the family has no further comment. Please continue to pray for both Devon and Jalen.”
http://www.whio.com/news/sports/coll...itter_2014_sfp
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I needed that. Just something that acknowledges the supreme effort that was put forth on their behalf. Even if it did come from the second best source--his father. Would like to hear more from Jalen's representatives. Anything--that might help us understand WHY.
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12-19-2014, 05:05 PM
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We would all like to know why, but we probably still would not understand because we are not in their shoes or inside their heads.
I am sure that most faculty and staff at UD are working hard to assure "every" student has the best education opportunity and support, not just the athletes.
I like the posts from rollo and BeckyTXA, very informed and certainly with opinions that have merit.
The team will win as many games now as they would have with the two lost players. Yup, we'll play 3 guards and two forwards and confuse the heck out of the opposition.
Movin' On!
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12-19-2014, 05:18 PM
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This team has six healthy scholarship players who are not freshmen, and then there is Rogers who is a question mark. They not only have an issue with size they are very limited in number of bodies. The only way this team wins a lot of games is that everyone raises their level of play and they execute everything at a very high level. They have to take care of the basketball and play as a total team every minute of every game. this team cannot afford any lapses that other teams can overcome.
They can still have a very good season but it isn't going to be easy and a little good fortune will probably be required.
Let's hope that Rogers is very similar to DMO and plays soon.
I should add that was a very classy statement by Mr Scott, kudos!
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12-19-2014, 05:21 PM
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Academy Doolie
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I agree. Archdeacon is not an investigative reporter. I recall reading mostly fluffy human interest type stories that leave you with a good feeling or appreciation of the person he's writing about. I have enjoyed his work.
Fans were looking to know the truth about the incident between Scott and his girlfriend/child. This incident was very ugly based on the rumors that hit the street. Archdeacon realized that as he took on the story he wrote in August. I feel that there was a responsibilty on his part to know more of the facts before writing a piece that softens the realty of what really happened.
That's where the "enabling" statement on my part comes from. Archdeacon is a very well respected part of our community, as he should be. That carries a responsibility when you choose to communicate to the public. His August piece assisted Scott in not being accountable for his actions.
I can't help but think Archdeacon's recent piece was written in part because the August article makes him look like a fool. I would think that there were people available for the asking which may have provided him with descriptions like dragged/dumped/deposited. Interesting he finds these adjectives now.
No. The sole responsibilty for the criminal behavior lies with Scott & Robinson. They just had some help carrying out the charade of being Flyer worthy. And, yes. I'm a little crazy.
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12-19-2014, 05:22 PM
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I have a very difficult time criticizing the internal discipline procedures without out having knowing fully how they work. We really don't know what was done to discipline the students. The implication is a free ride. However....
Matt D. was disciplined numerous times instead of being treated. Articles were written about the extra work he was required to do. Punishments. Yet, none of that was ever public. And it turns out that direct punishment instead of treatment was probably the worst thing to manage bipolar disorder. Why? Because none of coaching staff is trained how to deal with bipolar disorder. The normal rules of behavior management go out the window. Matt's father talked about how hard Tom Ostrom and the staff tried.
You want proper behavior out of people. You don't always get it. One strike and you are does not work. Look the other way does not work. So to stand on the sidelines and say, one way or else is not completely effective.
I wrote earlier about giving someone a chance who did not deserve it. I did not mention that he got a free pass. We designed a special program for him that not one else experienced. We monitored him constantly and put a tight leash on him. He could have relapsed and failed at any time. We knew. But all that was kept private to protect his dignity and the work environment. NO ONE Else knew what we were doing. That was the humane and best way to deal with. That time it paid off.
So we really don't know HOW Scott and Robinson were dealt with in the past. They may have been running two hours after practice every night. You don't know how Archie and the staff tried to manage them. I've seen Archie at practice. He is NOT a look the other way guy at practice.
I've seen some of the suggestions about controlling behavior. Very interesting, but many of those are done already. Study tables, watching players etc...
When BG was coach, he took it to extremes. He confiscated players cell phones on road trips. In fact, he was accused of micromanaging the players, treating them like children and robots. Ironically, their decision making on the court would seem to reflect that. I used to read constantly about low basketball IQ. If you are monitored constantly and never allowed to make decisions, then your ability to make independent smart decisions never develops.
Another thought about discipline. Ruby Payne writes a great deal about the culture of poverty. Dysfunctional culture brings on dysfunctional parenting and dysfunctional behavior. Discipline for those who grow up in the poverty culture often has to be different than those who grow up in middle class culture. For example: children in poverty cultures are often beaten early in life for no reason. As a result, they view physical discipline as an attack instead of behavior modification. Not to say that discipline and rules are unnecessary, but often there needs to be alternate ways to change behavior.
Should UD have kicked Scott and Robinson out earlier. Maybe so. Should I have given the employee who did not deserve another chance one more life? No absolutely not... But I did.... Not because I was looking the other way.
Some people are never able to improve their behavior. Now UD does not have to deal with them, but society will have to deal with their issues. I worry that the tragedy of their lives might get worse. Clearly, they both have issues and have demons that they need to overcome.
I don't have all the answers. But I worry about my glass house...
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12-19-2014, 05:44 PM
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Major General
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer
I needed that. Just something that acknowledges the supreme effort that was put forth on their behalf. Even if it did come from the second best source--his father. Would like to hear more from Jalen's representatives. Anything--that might help us understand WHY.
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I really, really feel bad for his mother and father. It took a lot for him to compose that message. Bottom line is, kids screw up all the time; a parent can do a lot of right things but like a coach, you can't be there 24x7 to overlook every action. Everyone talks about how he let the U of D down, team, coaches, etc...but in the end, the parents have to help Devin pick up the pieces and move on. And yes I understand that UD gave him a long leash/lots of chances. Still, I feel really bad for his parents...
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12-19-2014, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan
I have a very difficult time criticizing the internal discipline procedures without out having knowing fully how they work. We really don't know what was done to discipline the students. The implication is a free ride. However....
Matt D. was disciplined numerous times instead of being treated. Articles were written about the extra work he was required to do. Punishments. Yet, none of that was ever public. And it turns out that direct punishment instead of treatment was probably the worst thing to manage bipolar disorder. Why? Because none of coaching staff is trained how to deal with bipolar disorder. The normal rules of behavior management go out the window. Matt's father talked about how hard Tom Ostrom and the staff tried.
You want proper behavior out of people. You don't always get it. One strike and you are does not work. Look the other way does not work. So to stand on the sidelines and say, one way or else is not completely effective.
I wrote earlier about giving someone a chance who did not deserve it. I did not mention that he got a free pass. We designed a special program for him that not one else experienced. We monitored him constantly and put a tight leash on him. He could have relapsed and failed at any time. We knew. But all that was kept private to protect his dignity and the work environment. NO ONE Else knew what we were doing. That was the humane and best way to deal with. That time it paid off.
So we really don't know HOW Scott and Robinson were dealt with in the past. They may have been running two hours after practice every night. You don't know how Archie and the staff tried to manage them. I've seen Archie at practice. He is NOT a look the other way guy at practice.
I've seen some of the suggestions about controlling behavior. Very interesting, but many of those are done already. Study tables, watching players etc...
When BG was coach, he took it to extremes. He confiscated players cell phones on road trips. In fact, he was accused of micromanaging the players, treating them like children and robots. Ironically, their decision making on the court would seem to reflect that. I used to read constantly about low basketball IQ. If you are monitored constantly and never allowed to make decisions, then your ability to make independent smart decisions never develops.
Another thought about discipline. Ruby Payne writes a great deal about the culture of poverty. Dysfunctional culture brings on dysfunctional parenting and dysfunctional behavior. Discipline for those who grow up in the poverty culture often has to be different than those who grow up in middle class culture. For example: children in poverty cultures are often beaten early in life for no reason. As a result, they view physical discipline as an attack instead of behavior modification. Not to say that discipline and rules are unnecessary, but often there needs to be alternate ways to change behavior.
Should UD have kicked Scott and Robinson out earlier. Maybe so. Should I have given the employee who did not deserve another chance one more life? No absolutely not... But I did.... Not because I was looking the other way.
Some people are never able to improve their behavior. Now UD does not have to deal with them, but society will have to deal with their issues. I worry that the tragedy of their lives might get worse. Clearly, they both have issues and have demons that they need to overcome.
I don't have all the answers. But I worry about my glass house...
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Outstanding!!
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12-19-2014, 05:49 PM
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I applaud Mr. Scott for his mature statement. He thanks UD and obviously internalizes the blame to the Scott's. Such a great contrast to the recent events in America, where people blame everyone but their kid. Scott and Robinson will be given another chance by some school. Hopefully they will be able to change.
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12-19-2014, 05:56 PM
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The guys that are left....
I have not seen the Flyers play....and certainly understand that all Priders and fans would strongly prefer that this shocking event hadn't happened.
But it did.
I have heard people remark how "quick" the team is. And they are young. While depth matters and it's usually better to have it than not, young men 19, 20 years old are more than capable of playing 40 minutes of BB spread over 2 1/2 hours with no playing stretch more than a few minutes.
And we don't have anyone over 6' 6"...so what. Being 6' 10" doesn't make you a better shooter. And it doesn't make you a better defender or rebounder. Being tall should make it easier to rebound, all else equal. But all else isn't "equal". Rebounding is about agility, strength and most important, agressiveness and desire.
If the guys that are left are able to step up just a bit, pull together, play good defense and.....fergodsake, shoot better. I foresee plenty of opportunity to make lemonade from these lemons.
This is a challenge....but one that's manageable, in my opinion. It starts tomorrow with BU.
Go Flyers!
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12-19-2014, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer
I have not seen the Flyers play....and certainly understand that all Priders and fans would strongly prefer that this shocking event hadn't happened.
But it did.
I have heard people remark how "quick" the team is. And they are young. While depth matters and it's usually better to have it than not, young men 19, 20 years old are more than capable of playing 40 minutes of BB spread over 2 1/2 hours with no playing stretch more than a few minutes.
And we don't have anyone over 6' 6"...so what. Being 6' 10" doesn't make you a better shooter. And it doesn't make you a better defender or rebounder. Being tall should make it easier to rebound, all else equal. But all else isn't "equal". Rebounding is about agility, strength and most important, agressiveness and desire.
If the guys that are left are able to step up just a bit, pull together, play good defense and.....fergodsake, shoot better. I foresee plenty of opportunity to make lemonade from these lemons.
This is a challenge....but one that's manageable, in my opinion. It starts tomorrow with BU.
Go Flyers!
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Having played against taller players in the post, I see a huge challenge. A talented tall player can be hard to overcome even with speed. He does not have to be as fast to alter or block a shot or use his height to score in the post.
Taller college centers and forwards use their height, strength and yes speed well. (The 7 foot center for UConn is very quick).
This team will have to play incredible ball to overcome that.
The departure of Scoot and Robinson will hurt big Steve too. He won't have anyone his size to match up against in practice.
Are there any 6'7" or taller guys on campus?
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12-19-2014, 06:57 PM
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[QUOTE=SeasonTicketFan;379856]Having played against taller players in the post, I see a huge challenge. A talented tall player can be hard to overcome even with speed. He does not have to be as fast to alter or block a shot or use his height to score in the post.
Taller college centers and forwards use their height, strength and yes speed well. (The 7 foot center for UConn is very quick).
This team will have to play incredible ball to overcome that.
The departure of Scoot and Robinson will hurt big Steve too. He won't have anyone his size to match up against in practice.
Are there any 6'7" or taller guys on campus?[/QUOTE
Zac Morgan on the football team....
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12-19-2014, 07:00 PM
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12-19-2014, 07:28 PM
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Yes, but,...
Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan
Having played against taller players in the post, I see a huge challenge. A talented tall player can be hard to overcome even with speed. He does not have to be as fast to alter or block a shot or use his height to score in the post.
Taller college centers and forwards use their height, strength and yes speed well. (The 7 foot center for UConn is very quick).
This team will have to play incredible ball to overcome that.
The departure of Scoot and Robinson will hurt big Steve too. He won't have anyone his size to match up against in practice.
Are there any 6'7" or taller guys on campus?
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....it's possible. You mentioned UConn's 7' center. He dominated against UD. But, last night UC played #2 Duke. UC's 7' center was matched up against Duke's much, much better 6' 11" center. UC's guy played 12 minutes, fouled out and had no points.
Duke's guy, a freshmen, may be the best in the country. He'll be in the NBA very soon. Nonetheless, without their center UConn had no trouble at all scoring in the paint. They had 5 more FGs than Duke.
UC lost by ten because they couldn't make a shot from outside to save their lives. If they had, they would have won. UC missed all the easy shots and made all the hard ones against Dukes big man.
BB is one of the simpler games. Get the ball through the hoop. Good shooting compensates for other deficiencies. If the Flyers play good defense and become better shooters I predict they will surprise.
BU is a very good first test before games against two power conference schools. In about two weeks we'll have a good read on how this will play out.
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12-19-2014, 08:31 PM
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Injuries at this point would do us in.
Our players not only will accept the challenge, they will also relish it. However, here's the rub. You can't play harder, play extra minutes, and then practice harder without increasing the risk of fatigue and injury. We really need bodies. Have to wonder if there is machinery working as we speak to bring some players in. We will surprise some people on nights were we are well- rested. We should beat Fordham and St Bonaventure, right? Well we play them two nights apart on the road. Then a stretch of 5 games in 15 days. Then later on we do it again. It's likely we won't be seeded in the A10---4 games to win in 5 days? I'm not giving up by any measure, but not sure folks have focused on the reality of being shorthanded like we are with Detwon an uncertainty, DD a bit frail for the task at hand, two empty lockers and a *itch of a schedule to deal with. I love our players and their potential, but I am resigned to applaud whatever efforts they make, win or lose, because this is going to be tough duty.
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St Bonaventure
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SAINT BONAVENTURE
Founded in 1858, St. Bonaventure University is a liberal arts college located on 500 acres in southwestern New York state. SBU offers 43 undergraduate majors, the most popular of which are elementary education, journalism, psychology, accounting, marketing, finance, and management. Total undergraduate enrollment is 2,000. Virtually all freshmen and most undergraduates live on campus. A founding member of the A10 Conference. Famous athletes include Bob Lanier. Historical nickname was the Brown Indians, but later changed to the Bonnies. Their mascot is a wolf. |
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12-19-2014, 08:39 PM
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SDF:
When the stuff hit the fan, Archie mentioned that he was gonna have to back off on practices in terms on length and intensity because of the lack of numbers. Clearly, something has to give when a squad is this shorthanded.
Last edited by Swampy Meadows; 12-20-2014 at 09:50 AM..
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12-19-2014, 11:31 PM
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Colonel
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Two notes:
1) Devon Scott's father's statement is very classy, clearly acknowledges where the fault lies, and is supportive without deflecting blame. Nicely done by him, and it gives me encouragement that Devon may yet straighten things out. (But that's water under the bridge now - he's completely off my radar starting tomorrow at tipoff.)
2) UAC, your posts and insight are appreciated. But to 99.99999% of people reading them on this site, UC is in Cincinnati. The school up in Yankee land is UConn. Refer to them elsewhere as you please, but when in Rome...
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12-20-2014, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by sheg
Two notes:
1) Devon Scott's father's statement is very classy, clearly acknowledges where the fault lies, and is supportive without deflecting blame. Nicely done by him, and it gives me encouragement that Devon may yet straighten things out. (But that's water under the bridge now - he's completely off my radar starting tomorrow at tipoff.
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According to the public record, Devon has a way to go until he's as accomplished as a criminal as his dad but he's well on his way to outperforming him...so once again, stop listening to either of their words and start paying attention to both of their actions.
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12-20-2014, 09:25 AM
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General of the Air Force
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I think the number of active players is probably a bigger issue than height.
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12-20-2014, 09:29 AM
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General
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Originally Posted by UDBaby
Gazoo, gotta tell ya, I have no f'in clue what you're talking about....and that's coming from a Prider that many would pigeon hole into the bleeding heart section of the group.
Some degree of respect? They deserve nothing less than someone's dad showing up with a few "paid employees" to teach DH1 and DH2 a life lesson or two.
If DH1 and DH2 were found to be robbing rooms at Marycrest they should be thrown outta school, prosecuted and then, if the karma Gods are on the job, getting their arses beat from more of their kind while waiting to get bailed out by their "loved ones," if they have any.
You said it all regarding respect.....THEY DON'T DESERVE ANY.....they disgraced the team and UD and proved themselves to be low-life aholes.
Imperfect humans is one thing....I'm on that list.....human maggots hatched from dung and unleashed on our fine University is another.
There Gaz...was that calm enough for ya...
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I think you're losing a bit of perspective, as are many people here. Rarely will you look back after a significant passage of time and think, "My anger and actions weren't intense enough." Rarely. It's almost always the opposite.
In 20 years when these 2 are destitute and living off the government because they have squandered every possible opportunity -- or worse yet dead -- we will not have anger toward them, it will be sadness.
I'm more sad than I am angry. With age I have begun to move through the anger phase much more quickly. I'm thinking more about the failure of the parents, the church, the coaches, and yes the kids. These are human lives that are now highly likely to be a total waste, because the only remaining choice they have is to save themselves. That seems very unlikely.
That's sad to me.
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12-20-2014, 10:03 AM
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Major
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It seems like this thread has run its course.
Give someone multiple chances, and they screw up -- blame the person/program that gave them the chances.
Give them multiple chances, and they grow up, do well, and become an ambassador for the program -- and everyone forgets how many chances they had to get there (except for the individual for whom the chance was given)
Hate the sin but love the sinner OR demonize the people involved.
Defend those who may have tried to help along the way OR say that the apple does not fall from the tree and blame everyone even remotely related to the individuals.
We aren't going to decide these questions in this thread. 30 years from now we may look back at the season following the Elite 8 run and think what might have been . . . but history has yet to be written. And hopefully history has yet to be written for Robinson and Scott.
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12-20-2014, 10:07 AM
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You deal with problems by taking away autonomy and holding people accountable...
If you as a coach are disciplined enough to get to a workout at 6am...you hold your players to the same standard of getting to weight lifting at 6am. It prevents problems from festering after midnight...
The big party nights on campus...say during the week...you hold your study tables on those nights until at least 10pm...gives the players a late start on the scene and most will just pack it in for the night...
Curfews...you have strict curfews on game nights...you don't really have them at other times...
Drinking policy....under 21 and caught...discipline...over 21...no drinking in season...coach can make that decision...doesn't have to be the team...I got busted in college during initial practices at the beginning of the season...on campus infraction...I ran until I about died...had university sanctions...and was in the dog house for a bit...I learned my lesson and knew if I got hit again it would be my last go...It isn't cool when your head coach decided to randomly stop by housing and check up on his guys...another guy was rumored to smoke dope...coach would conveniently stop by his place on the "party nights"....you think his behavior was curbed? Yep.
I know of another program at UD that doesn't allow any drinking underage, but allows drinking in season for those 21 but not 24 hours prior to any scheduled team event. Is it followed? Hard to tell at times...but there are consequences if caught.
Drug tests? Early and often. BG's teams had walkon's dropping urine for the starters...AM issued a test and didn't like the results so he told the guys he was just doing it to "scare them straight"...no teeth to either and we have observed the results.
Actions speak louder than words...Papa Scott....do a public records search on Franklin County Municipal Court's website for further...and a really good idea why Devon sees his behavior as appropriate.
There are ways to take chances with players and turn them into responsible adults regardless of their upbringing. The culture was tolerated with Dillard, Benson, Warren, Searcy, etc....carried over to Scott and Robinson...and they were in the process of finding followers that were below them to do the same...that can't happen. This is the best thing to happen to clean up the program...as the two that were leaders for the wrong reasons aren't going to be here to divert any of the followers below them.
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12-20-2014, 11:14 AM
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The personal comments regarding Devin's parent are absolutely inappropriate. Any opinion that UD fans are classy is certainly negated by these kind of posts on UDPride.
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12-20-2014, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo
According to the public record, Devon has a way to go until he's as accomplished as a criminal as his dad but he's well on his way to outperforming him...so once again, stop listening to either of their words and start paying attention to both of their actions.
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Rollo, I see no value in dragging his father's history into this discussion. I'm always silent about your other posts but you crossed a line here. Totally inappropriate.
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12-20-2014, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by springborofan
Rollo, I see no value in dragging his father's history into this discussion. I'm always silent about your other posts but you crossed a line here. Totally inappropriate.
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Agree. A few on here have an almost borderline unhealthy obsession
with the off the court lives of players and their families.
The 2 players got what the deserved and time to move on and let the
legal system do their job.
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Mad Props to Furio For This Totally Excellent Post:
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12-20-2014, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Furio
Agree. A few on here have an almost borderline unhealthy obsession
with the off the court lives of players and their families.
The 2 players got what the deserved and time to move on and let the
legal system do their job.
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And everybody said: AMEN...
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12-20-2014, 12:03 PM
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King Rollo wasn't born yesterday...
Haven't any of you ever been told to 'consider the source'?
Regardless, to each his own....you all keep innocently believing everything you hear and I'll keep believing (almost) everything I see. after all, aren't we in this mess because of your type of thinking?
Yuup.
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Last edited by rollo; 12-20-2014 at 12:08 PM..
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12-20-2014, 12:17 PM
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Major General
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Game tonight!
What time in the Boston University game tonight and is it on TV for those unable to attend and cheer on the Flyers who will be bustin' there arses on behalf of the University of Dayton at the arena?
Let's go Flyers....
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12-20-2014, 12:25 PM
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12-20-2014, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo
I'm more sad than I am angry. With age I have begun to move through the anger phase much more quickly.
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I get that. But the length of the phase is different for all of us.
Will let you know the year my anger fades and I feel sad for them.
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12-20-2014, 12:43 PM
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LONG AGO:
Originally Posted by bigred
It seems like this thread has run its course.
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Wishful thinking?
By the way--
rollo's point of who was saying what was not without a VERY LARGE & GERMANE
CONTEXT, and was an expediently perfect point to make.
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12-20-2014, 01:13 PM
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I do not participate in UDPRide to discuss the transgressions of parents or the current state of Kingdom Rollo.
This site is getting so rabid and so distasteful that it is an embarrassment. And there is far more discussion of Rollo than legitimate and healthy discussion of UD basketball.
'Perhaps I am the only one feeling this way. And if so, I need to find another outlet for my interest in UD basetball.
IF, however, my feelings are not in the minority and if there are a large number who want to send a message to our leader, Chris, to tone down this site and get it back to basketball and less to a cheap rumor rag, I hope that you will like this post and sing this chorus too.
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12-20-2014, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
Haven't any of you ever been told to 'consider the source'? . . .
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Yuup - and here, the source is a self-obsessed poser with an unlimited capacity for judgement and condemnation.
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12-20-2014, 01:19 PM
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*you forgot accuracy
Originally Posted by Glen Clark
Yuup - and here, the source is a self-obsessed poser with an unlimited capacity for judgement and condemnation*.
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That's an awfully condemning and judgmental post there Glen...glad we share at least 2 good qualities...that maybe we can use to build a friendship!
Meet me at the PyramidPlex...so we can start bonding like men.
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12-20-2014, 01:36 PM
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A Great idea
Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
At 7 PM saturday when our Flyers tip off in their next game against Boston U, this thread and all other threads relating too these two scum buckets is closed, and we never hear or say their names again.
***** all we want between now and then, but come game time we move on and celebrate the Christmas season and New Year with happy and productive talk about the good guys and gals in the world.
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Yea, sorry to quote myself.....please, everyone get it out of your system in the next 5 hours so that at 7 PM tonight we can never mention the less than dynamic duo again.
Go Flyers!
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12-20-2014, 01:46 PM
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General of the Air Force
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Originally Posted by jack72
I applaud Mr. Scott for his mature statement. He thanks UD and obviously internalizes the blame to the Scott's. Such a great contrast to the recent events in America, where people blame everyone but their kid. Scott and Robinson will be given another chance by some school. Hopefully they will be able to change.
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He always sat in Sec 110, which is the section below us. He impressed me as a guy who took a deep interest in his kid. Just goes to show, the parent may seem to be doing things right, & the kid can still turn out to be a numb nuts.
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12-20-2014, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by GoFlyer
I do not participate in UDPRide to discuss the transgressions of parents or the current state of Kingdom Rollo.
This site is getting so rabid and so distasteful that it is an embarrassment. And there is far more discussion of Rollo than legitimate and healthy discussion of UD basketball.
'Perhaps I am the only one feeling this way. And if so, I need to find another outlet for my interest in UD basetball.
IF, however, my feelings are not in the minority and if there are a large number who want to send a message to our leader, Chris, to tone down this site and get it back to basketball and less to a cheap rumor rag, I hope that you will like this post and sing this chorus too.
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+1
Posted via Mobile Device
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12-20-2014, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84
He always sat in Sec 110, which is the section below us. He impressed me as a guy who took a deep interest in his kid. Just goes to show, the parent may seem to be doing things right, & the kid can still turn out to be a numb nuts.
Posted via Mobile Device
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But that is too small a sample. The structure and discipline the parents have had in the earlier years, along with peer pressure are the big things.
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12-20-2014, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt
+1
Posted via Mobile Device
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Who's-yer captain?
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12-20-2014, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt
+1
Posted via Mobile Device
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+10
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12-20-2014, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bigred
30 years from now we may look back at the season following the Elite 8 run and think what might have been.
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And 30 years from now rollo will resurrect this thread and say, "I told you so."
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12-20-2014, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by THirt
+1
Posted via Mobile Device
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Yea everyone on hear knows he poisons this site at every chance he gets and and tries to make this site about himself to the point it's sickening . It's at the point where I believe this site does more harm than good for the basketball program ,and it's very unfortunate we have him on this site .
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12-20-2014, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by soccergod
Yea everyone on hear knows he poisons this site at every chance he gets and and tries to make this site about himself to the point it's sickening . It's at the point where I believe this site does more harm than good for the basketball program ,and it's very unfortunate we have him on this site .
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+20
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12-20-2014, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by GoFlyer
I do not participate in UDPRide to discuss the transgressions of parents
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Intentions weren't to get you bent out of shape...but I wouldn't make my assumption about certain people based on a two line quote in the paper or social media...apologize if my opinion isn't the same as those who made assumptions based on that...
It's okay to discuss positives with those tied to the program...but heaven forbid anything negative is out there...
Let this thread die a slow death....and eventually the memory of the last week....
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12-20-2014, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by GoFlyer
I do not participate in UDPRide to discuss the transgressions of parents or the current state of Kingdom Rollo.
This site is getting so rabid and so distasteful that it is an embarrassment. And there is far more discussion of Rollo than legitimate and healthy discussion of UD basketball.
'Perhaps I am the only one feeling this way. And if so, I need to find another outlet for my interest in UD basetball.
IF, however, my feelings are not in the minority and if there are a large number who want to send a message to our leader, Chris, to tone down this site and get it back to basketball and less to a cheap rumor rag, I hope that you will like this post and sing this chorus too.
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This is a mixed bag: I myself have expressed your sentiment to rollo; the idea of post limits (daily, weekly, per thread, whatever ) may make sense, as well as a simple guideline for what is acceptable criticism. {For the 1st it is more sensible that rollo would understand not to monopolize}
(Mind you, many well meaning people have used descriptors worse than as d***head for this 'occasion') Given the fullest context here, an emotionally charged response was appropriate for a site with heartfelt opinions.
I know rollo was trying to say that he has criticism of sterilized information being fed without it being questioned, ESPECIALLY as it concerns Dayton's officials. I will say this: In THIS case, his persistence over the long haul brought perspective and substantial undercurrent of things going wrong.
I probably will regret saying this, but I actually am interested rollo's take on what he wants for Dayton moving forward with no bars, since rollo provided much of the life and precursor for this "Robinson and Scott" thread.
Thanks rollo, last part was for you only. Learned a ton from you--serious.
Last edited by forego1; 12-20-2014 at 04:07 PM..
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12-20-2014, 04:02 PM
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If everyone would just start agreeing with me I'd be more than happy to tone it down.
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12-20-2014, 04:17 PM
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-20
Although I am not fond of the king stuff, rollo has been consistently right. When people attack the "rumors" he post, they almost always turn-out to be fact.
I joined pride+ a while ago and I will not repeat what is said there, but rollo actually exercises a ton of constraint on the public board about the UD program. Again, what he says on pride+ almost always turns out to be fact.
Rollo points out the elephants in the room and does not drink the UD kool-aide. I appreciate his contrarian viewpoint.
He also is very knowledgeable about basketball. Admittedly, I am biased as he was my junior high basketball coach!
Yes, I wish he did not do all the king rollo stuff, but he is knowledgeable, accurate, and contrarian.
Now let's turn back to the BU game.
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12-20-2014, 04:57 PM
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Major General
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IMHO, rollo's Posts are both entertaining and informative. He provides an insight into a lot of what's going on on-campus...a perspective that isn't available to most. Granted it is his perspective, but I find them to be well formulated and interesting. I don't have to agree with everything he says nor do I necessarily agree with all his policy proscriptions for what ails us, but I do find him to be pretty well informed and quite often funny. What I don't fully understand is why those on this Board that find rollo's Post's disagreeable continue to read them...if you don't like what he has to say, ignore his Posts.
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12-20-2014, 04:59 PM
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As shocka mentioned, bad influences on the team can start to impact other players on the team. It is important to eliminate the bad influences or correct their behavior so that the problem(s) doesn't start bleeding over and impacting other players.
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12-20-2014, 05:08 PM
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General
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Not that it matters, but Wake Forest has three players currently suspended--one for NCAA violations, two for conduct detrimental to the team.
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12-20-2014, 05:13 PM
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"You can afford to have one donkey, but you can't have two because they will breed" - Al McGuire on team chemistry
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12-20-2014, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bat'71
IMHO, rollo's Posts are both entertaining and informative. He provides an insight into a lot of what's going on on-campus...a perspective that isn't available to most. Granted it is his perspective, but I find them to be well formulated and interesting. I don't have to agree with everything he says nor do I necessarily agree with all his policy proscriptions for what ails us, but I do find him to be pretty well informed and quite often funny. What I don't fully understand is why those on this Board that find rollo's Post's disagreeable continue to read them...if you don't like what he has to say, ignore his Posts.
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Since you asked
Difficult to ignore someone that has posted over 7000 times.
I don't have a problem with rumors or negativity. I have a problem with the
repetitive nature of harping on the same thing over and over.
I also don't find his comedy act that entertaining or funny. Most
of which belongs on the off topic giberish board.
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12-20-2014, 05:24 PM
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Ugh, this thread is brutal. Anyone want to talk about the logo?
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12-20-2014, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Sticks 'n Stearns
Ugh, this thread is brutal. Anyone want to talk about the logo?
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I'll start one on the new player intro tonight after the game...BTW...anyone heard of the Big East expansion?
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12-20-2014, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43
I'll start one on the new player intro tonight after the game...BTW...anyone heard of the Big East expansion?
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Hey - what does everybody think about the entrance music? 😛
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12-20-2014, 06:21 PM
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The difference between me and most everyone else is that I have informed and well thought opinions and others merely have praise
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12-20-2014, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
As shocka mentioned, bad influences on the team can start to impact other players on the team. It is important to eliminate the bad influences or correct their behavior so that the problem(s) doesn't start bleeding over and impacting other players.
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Winning and time cures all. If the team can get a few wins under their belt most likely they will be fine. If losing becomes the norm I would not be shocked if it all falls apart as in more infighting and other departures. As we all know the immediate games are crucial and soon each player will know what they have within their own self.
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12-20-2014, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
The difference between me and most everyone else is that I have informed and well thought opinions and others merely have praise
Posted via Mobile Device
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You are truly a legend in your own mind! Or maybe a pompous a..hole.
You remind me of the little tattle tale who always ran to the teacher to squeal on someone. Do you hate the U or certain people that you have a grudge with?
Sometimes you are funny but not very often as you seem to relish in someone's misfortune.
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12-20-2014, 09:14 PM
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I think we should celebrate a great win tonight by a determined undersized, undermanned team by burying this thread once and for all. Lock it!!!!
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12-20-2014, 09:24 PM
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When I think of all the criticism individuals like Meachum, Staten, Spearman and others have received I have to laugh. The transgressions of those individuals can't come close to those of the Northland boys. As far as I'm concerned the names Scott & Robinson no longer need be mentioned moving forward. I'll be glad when we no longer have to view a thread entitled in their names.
Peace!!!
Last edited by LI Flyer; 12-20-2014 at 10:28 PM..
Reason: spelling error
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12-20-2014, 10:52 PM
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General
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Originally Posted by Bat'71
IMHO, rollo's Posts are both entertaining and informative. He provides an insight into a lot of what's going on on-campus...a perspective that isn't available to most. Granted it is his perspective, but I find them to be well formulated and interesting. I don't have to agree with everything he says nor do I necessarily agree with all his policy proscriptions for what ails us, but I do find him to be pretty well informed and quite often funny. What I don't fully understand is why those on this Board that find rollo's Post's disagreeable continue to read them...if you don't like what he has to say, ignore his Posts.
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AGREED. Perhaps and likely he knew something about Scott's father.
Since some sociopathic, immoral activity is coming out of his progeny and plenty over time it's possible it wasn't addressed by the family as this was repetitive behavior by Robinson and Scott. I sternly give my son warnings about important boundaries and behaviors. Just as my Father did with me.
Rollo may have approached a line. But definitely within the bounds of this board , IMO. You may not like the commentary or opinion. But get over yourself, read it and move on.
Bad behavior over an extended period of times doesn't come out of the blue. It's a pervasive allowing and looking the other way, on many levels. By many people.
Prayers for these two families, as well as the students effected, team and U of D are in order.
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12-20-2014, 11:18 PM
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Captain
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Originally Posted by rollo
The difference between me and most everyone else is that I have informed and well thought opinions and others merely have praise
Posted via Mobile Device
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Rollo is either clairvoyant or he has some inside information. He may cross the line at times when becomes in his own mind becomes omniscient.
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12-20-2014, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
The difference between me and most everyone else is that I have informed and well thought opinions and others merely have praise
Posted via Mobile Device
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plus your humility
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12-20-2014, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
The difference between me and most everyone else is that I have informed and well thought opinions and others merely have praise
Posted via Mobile Device
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You're a gas bag rollo, nothing more, nothing less and the moderator of this site must be your cuz.
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