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01-17-2018, 08:58 PM
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Missed most of the game
Did I really miss it? Doesn't seem so from the score. Read through the game thread. Amazing it was 20 - 20, then 42-30, then 61-42 next chance I got to look.
Observations based on box score and reading threads
1. No D, again
2. Poor shooting, poor shot selection. Based on box score, 13 - 38 on 3s. You just up 38 3s you deserve to lose. Only shot 24 2s. That's terrible. Looks like they didn't go inside to Cunningham, Landers 0 -6, X 1 - 8 including 0-5 from 3, DD 2 - 7 from 3. Only guy really hitting was Crutcher, who dropped in 23 points and made 7 - 10 3s.
4. I don't see Crosby listed in box score. Did he play?
5. Pierce didn't make trip again?
6. Kostas didn't play much?
7. Svoboda is bad, doesn't bring anything to the table
8. First time I've seen walk-ons in a blowout loss. Good for them to see the court, we know how hard they work. No Joey though?
9. J Davis bad shooting night
10. The indignity of the X game coming on right after the UD game.
I got nothing else. AG was right, they haven't arrived, or they have, but at the wrong destination. VCU lost at home to Richmond?
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01-17-2018, 09:05 PM
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Major General
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Book on us is simple, dare us to shoot 3s and we will more than oblige, shooting ourselves out of more games than we'll win.
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01-17-2018, 09:39 PM
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General of the Air Force
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I missed it too for my daughters game. Debating on if I waste a couple hours watching the replay I recorded or just delete the **** thing. Did Westerfield really play 8 minutes as the box score indicates?
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01-17-2018, 09:46 PM
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Lieutenant General
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DELETE !!!!!!!!!!!
IMMEDIATELY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and the box score is correct.
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01-17-2018, 09:55 PM
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Didn't see until afterwards that Crosby didn't make the trip due to illness. Doubt it would have made any difference, since our problems did not initiate at the PG spot.
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01-17-2018, 09:58 PM
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Trey shouldn't have more 3 point attempts than 2 point attempts
Offense needs to try (try not always succeed) in getting good looks & high % shots
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01-17-2018, 10:11 PM
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I hate to miss Flyer games but missed the second half because of a dinner meeting.
First time I ever was actually thankful that a meeting prevented me from seeing part of a Flyer game.
That summarizes this season.
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01-18-2018, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
I missed it too for my daughters game. Debating on if I waste a couple hours watching the replay I recorded or just delete the **** thing. Did Westerfield really play 8 minutes as the box score indicates?
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Yes Westerfield did play- and actually- he played really well. I wouldn’t be disappointed in seeing more of him.
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01-18-2018, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Trey shouldn't have more 3 point attempts than 2 point attempts
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...neither should XW. He's 6 friggin 8 feet tall!
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01-18-2018, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer
Trey shouldn't have more 3 point attempts than 2 point attempts
Offense needs to try (try not always succeed) in getting good looks & high % shots
Posted via Mobile Device
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Just like that famous Start Wars actor " Offense not try, DO! "
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01-18-2018, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar
...neither should XW. He's 6 friggin 8 feet tall!
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I hate this argument. Who cares how tall he is? Since 2005, 8 times a person 6'7" or taller has won the NBA 3 point contest. X shot 41.5% from 3 last year and hit a few very clutch 3's. If he can make the shot take it. This year has been a bad year for him, and he is not hitting nearly as much, but his height has nothing to do with it.
EDIT:
Having a tall player that can hit from the outside causes major matchup problems and opens up the floor. If you have a guy that is tall and can stretch the floor, it is to your advantage to use it.
Last edited by m21eagle45; 01-18-2018 at 09:52 AM..
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01-18-2018, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67
Yes Westerfield did play- and actually- he played really well. I wouldn’t be disappointed in seeing more of him.
Posted via Mobile Device
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I agree. I thought Greer looked good too. Play both of them more. Both hustled.
I actually found myself getting excited watching both of those guys playing, I was actually cheering from the couch. They were flying around the court.
Last edited by ud2; 01-18-2018 at 10:02 AM..
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01-18-2018, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45
I hate this argument. Who cares how tall he is? Since 2005, 8 times a person 6'7" or taller has won the NBA 3 point contest. X shot 41.5% from 3 last year and hit a few very clutch 3's. If he can make the shot take it. This year has been a bad year for him, and he is not hitting nearly as much, but his height has nothing to do with it.
EDIT:
Having a tall player that can hit from the outside causes major matchup problems and opens up the floor. If you have a guy that is tall and can stretch the floor, it is to your advantage to use it.
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And when your shot isn't falling, which it hasn't been most of the year, you utilize your abilities elsewhere to help the team succeed, which includes giving THE APPEARANCE as though you give a d***!
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01-18-2018, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45
I hate this argument. Who cares how tall he is? Since 2005, 8 times a person 6'7" or taller has won the NBA 3 point contest. X shot 41.5% from 3 last year and hit a few very clutch 3's. If he can make the shot take it. This year has been a bad year for him, and he is not hitting nearly as much, but his height has nothing to do with it.
EDIT:
Having a tall player that can hit from the outside causes major matchup problems and opens up the floor. If you have a guy that is tall and can stretch the floor, it is to your advantage to use it.
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Yes, but those same NBA guys also do more than chuck up 3s, which X appears unwilling or unable to do.
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01-18-2018, 10:55 AM
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I can see the appeal of shooting the open 3, especially if you came from the NBA where anyone outside of DeAndre Jordan can probably hit a 3. The difference is anyone who is open for a 3 is just as apt to make a drive towards the hoop or dump it inside, etc. Our guys not so much. I have seen Jordan Davis pass up the three and drive to the hoop but most guys don't. This means that we rarely get to the foul line and more importantly, get the opposing team in foul trouble where they can't guard as closely.
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01-18-2018, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
I can see the appeal of shooting the open 3, especially if you came from the NBA where anyone outside of DeAndre Jordan can probably hit a 3. The difference is anyone who is open for a 3 is just as apt to make a drive towards the hoop or dump it inside, etc. Our guys not so much. I have seen Jordan Davis pass up the three and drive to the hoop but most guys don't. This means that we rarely get to the foul line and more importantly, get the opposing team in foul trouble where they can't guard as closely.
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The NBA has been trending this way for awhile but Golden State took it to another level. As all leagues are, the NBA is a copy cat league and a lot of teams seem to be trying to build a starting five with five guys who can really stroke the three. I think they sort of stumbled into using Draymond Green as a big who could put it on the deck and feed other shooters too. But the way Golden State plays is largely the way the game should be played statistically speaking as the highest percentage shots are now three pointers and of course layups. The mid range jumper is a lost art at all levels now. Since guys are less likely to make them, why shoot them?
We've seen it somewhat on the NCAA level I think too but there hasn't been that one team like Golden State to really set it as the model. With the dearth of true centers and interior guys though, I think it's coming. If you squint really hard, you could sort of see Dayton going this route with guys like Kostas, Svoboda, Mikesell and Xeyrius on the roster. Of course, you've got to actually make the threes for it to work. We're certainly jacking them at up a high rate though.
Originally Posted by m21eagle45
I hate this argument. Who cares how tall he is? Since 2005, 8 times a person 6'7" or taller has won the NBA 3 point contest. X shot 41.5% from 3 last year and hit a few very clutch 3's. If he can make the shot take it. This year has been a bad year for him, and he is not hitting nearly as much, but his height has nothing to do with it.
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That is a bad take. Dirk is 7 feet tall. Larry Bird is 6-9. Reggie Miller 6-7. Xeyrius Williams at 6-8 is smack dab between Luke Fabrizius (6-9) and Ryan Perryman (6-7) in terms of height. But his game is so much closer to Luke Fab's. Would I like him to play more on the Perryman spectrum? Heck yeah. We could really use another beast like Perryman to pair with Josh Cunningham.
Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan
I missed it too for my daughters game. Debating on if I waste a couple hours watching the replay I recorded or just delete the **** thing. Did Westerfield really play 8 minutes as the box score indicates?
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I missed it too. Took my daughter to gymnastics. I wasn't going to look at the score. I was just going to watch it when I got home. But I snuck a peak on twitter and saw the collective groaning, at which point my mind was made up. I deleted. Unless you're related to Jack Westerfield, don't torture yourself!
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01-18-2018, 12:16 PM
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If someone else is able to fight for rebounds, I don't mind a 6'8" player chucking up 3's...but we don't have many rebounders....in fact, sometimes we don't have any large bodies (Cunningham) on the court! At those times, I want XW on the low block with strict orders to set picks, attack the basket and fight for offensive RBs.
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I shaved my balls for this?
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01-18-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by DallasFlyer
The NBA has been trending this way for awhile but Golden State took it to another level. As all leagues are, the NBA is a copy cat league and a lot of teams seem to be trying to build a starting five with five guys who can really stroke the three. I think they sort of stumbled into using Draymond Green as a big who could put it on the deck and feed other shooters too. But the way Golden State plays is largely the way the game should be played statistically speaking as the highest percentage shots are now three pointers and of course layups. The mid range jumper is a lost art at all levels now. Since guys are less likely to make them, why shoot them?
We've seen it somewhat on the NCAA level I think too but there hasn't been that one team like Golden State to really set it as the model. With the dearth of true centers and interior guys though, I think it's coming. If you squint really hard, you could sort of see Dayton going this route with guys like Kostas, Svoboda, Mikesell and Xeyrius on the roster. Of course, you've got to actually make the threes for it to work. We're certainly jacking them at up a high rate though.
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Yep, and I think the Kentucky team from a few years ago was built this way, either three or layup. It's not a bad model, but the thing is, if you aren't hitting the three, you have to make some layups. Just jacking up more 3s won't fix the problem. We need guys who can take it to the hole, whether off the screen, off the dribble, etc. That means that if you beat your guy, another guy has to help on D, then that leaves someone else open or you get fouled and to the line to make FTs and get the other team in foul trouble. We've seen teams do it to UD, but we rarely do it to other teams. That's the troubling part. I'm sure AG emphasizes it, but the message doesn't appear to be sinking in.
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01-18-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar
And when your shot isn't falling, which it hasn't been most of the year, you utilize your abilities elsewhere to help the team succeed, which includes giving THE APPEARANCE as though you give a d***!
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I agree, he hasn't looked like he has been giving effort at all this year. Which may be why his shot isn't falling. But in this era of basketball, if you have the ability you still need to be a threat. Look at our shot chart against VCU. It was nothing but 3's and dunks/layups. That is what basketball is going to whether we like it or not.
Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
Yes, but those same NBA guys also do more than chuck up 3s, which X appears unwilling or unable to do.
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I think with X it definitely seems like unwilling more than anything else. But even under AM when X was playing much better, his role was more of a perimeter player. He has never been one to play with his back to the basket.
Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan
I can see the appeal of shooting the open 3, especially if you came from the NBA where anyone outside of DeAndre Jordan can probably hit a 3. The difference is anyone who is open for a 3 is just as apt to make a drive towards the hoop or dump it inside, etc. Our guys not so much. I have seen Jordan Davis pass up the three and drive to the hoop but most guys don't. This means that we rarely get to the foul line and more importantly, get the opposing team in foul trouble where they can't guard as closely.
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I agree, if they can drive and get a dunk or layup, that should be first priority for everyone not named Davis. With us going to a 4 guard, or 3 guard 2 forward lineup, everyone needs to at least be a threat from 3. When you play small ball, spacing is key. If they don't respect a player as a threat from the outside they can sag and that ruins the spacing on the floor.
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01-18-2018, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2
I agree. I thought Greer looked good too. Play both of them more. Both hustled.
I actually found myself getting excited watching both of those guys playing, I was actually cheering from the couch. They were flying around the court.
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I am glad others recognized both Greer and Westerfeld. I thought they both looked in the time they were in there. I realize it was mop-up time, but those two guys brought more energy to the team than any of the other subs.
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01-18-2018, 12:44 PM
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I absolutely hate jacking up 3's. I can't stand it. It is such a lazy, ineffective way to play the game.
If I was a hc, I would only give a green light to a player to jack a 3 anytime in the shot clock if that guy was shooting 3's around 39% or better. Otherwise, work the ball around the court, and take the best shot. Shoot a 3 only if the shot clock is winding down.
We should always, always, always be looking to dribble drive or get the ball into the low post first, every single time down the floor, other than if DD or JD has an open, uncontested 3. DD is shooting 41% from 3. JD is shooting 45% from 3.
Last edited by ud2; 01-18-2018 at 12:50 PM..
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01-18-2018, 12:48 PM
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I Am A Statistical God
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Originally Posted by ud2
... as we do not have a single guy on the roster who is shooting 39% or better from 3.
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The Davis brothers. 40.7 (DD) and 44.6 (JD).
That's just to update the facts, not to argue against your statement.
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