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  #1  
Old 04-03-2019, 07:00 PM
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Programs with the highest basketball revenue

Louisville $43,134,625
Duke $36,412,223
Syracuse $31,772,639
Kentucky $30,743,306
Illinois $25,130,930
Indiana $25,086,839
North Carolina $24,660,258
Ohio State $24,056,371
Arizona $22,830,561
Wisconsin $22,438,795
Michigan State $21,882,125
Michigan $20,027,574
Marquette $19,668,714
Northwestern $19,562,252
Nebraska $19,340,390
Kansas $18,802,173
Texas $18,495,410
Villanova $17,605,994
Minnesota $17,454,711
Florida State $17,304,819
Arkansas $17,275,988
Texas Christian $16,239,880
North Carolina State $16,100,635
Tennessee $15,978,734
Alabama $15,298,808
Gonzaga $14,723,219
Dayton 14,201,764
Maryland $14,157,452
Iowa State $13,956,343
Missouri $13,772,989
Oklahoma $13,473,566
Virginia $13,468,010
Virginia Tech $13,410,392
Xavier $13,060,660
Georgetown $12,849,462
Oklahoma State $12,438,667
Pittsburgh $12,102,078
Memphis $11,859,500
Florida $11,460,512
Oregon $11,384,188
UCLA $11,325,876
Clemson $11,280,040
Auburn $11,214,964
South Carolina $11,112,728
Penn State $10,949,652
Iowa $10,828,407
Providence $10,768,267
Mississippi $10,572,245
Georgia $10,252,418
Washington $10,226,399
Purdue University $9,891,222
Texas Tech $9,889,275
Utah $9,754,858
Vanderbilt $9,739,474
Texas A & M $9,225,600



https://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...asketball.html


Dayton 27th in the country
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:14 PM
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Interesting. Out of 55 listed we are the only A10 school and there are only 2 BE schools ahead of us and 3 behind. I'm wondering exactly what comprises revenue? Does advertising, tournament revenue, tv & radio, income from "buy games", concessions count?? I have to believe UD does not have a lot of upside on this given we are close to selling out every home game.
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:18 PM
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And along with Marquette, Villanova and Gonzaga, one of only four non-P5 schools in the top 30.
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Interesting. Out of 55 listed we are the only A10 school and there are only 2 BE schools ahead of us and 3 behind. I'm wondering exactly what comprises revenue? Does advertising, tournament revenue, tv & radio, income from "buy games", concessions count?? I have to believe UD does not have a lot of upside on this given we are close to selling out every home game.
I have to assume that TV revenue is included in this but I didn't get a sense of what this included from the article

https://www.frogsowar.com/2019/3/6/1...re-you-serious

This says that TCU averaged 6,500 roughly per game so if TV revenue wasn't included those would have to be expensive tickets or they're making a fortune off everything ads, parking, etc
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I have to assume that TV revenue is included in this but I didn't get a sense of what this included from the article

https://www.frogsowar.com/2019/3/6/1...re-you-serious

This says that TCU averaged 6,500 roughly per game so if TV revenue wasn't included those would have to be expensive tickets or they're making a fortune off everything ads, parking, etc
Is NCAAT bid/payout money included? That would maybe explain a lower attendance school like Gonzaga.

Villanova only gets attendance of around 6k-7k per game.

Georgetown's attendance is not great either. The Washington Wizards NBA arena that they play in is maybe about 2/3 empty IINM.

Last edited by ud2; 04-03-2019 at 08:13 PM..
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:59 PM
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And Duke only seats 9,000, and the ACC does not have network till next year.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:05 PM
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Could include merchandise marketing, too. Some of those schools have huge alumni bases — not so much the private schools, but certainly the state universities.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:08 PM
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http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_bask...Attendance.pdf

I was mistaken, the latest report had Villanova at 11,800/game.

Georgetown 7,500.

Gonzaga 6,000.

TCU 6,500.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:10 PM
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All those power conference schools are making major money off of their TV deals. I'm sure NCAA money is in there too and all the power conferences are raking it in from NCAA units
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_bask...Attendance.pdf

I was mistaken, the latest report had Villanova at 11,800/game.

Georgetown 7,500.

Gonzaga 6,000.

TCU 6,500.
I was going to say when Villanova plays on campus it's only about 6500 but they do play a number of games at Wells Fargo which hold quite a bit more.
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:39 AM
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Add us into the Big East and it moves the Big East into solid 4th place for attendance ahead of the Big 12.

Also interesting that Marquette dropped so much - used to be solidly ahead of us. We would have been 2nd in the Big East in Attendance.

Per revenue - it includes all revenue for the sports team - that includes Ticket Sales, Seat Licenses (Big for UD), If they own the arena - revenue from the concessions, Merchandise sales, NCAA units (not big enough for UD), and TV deal from Conference (Not so big for A-10). These last two are how many of those with much smaller arenas / attendance are ahead of us. And why Creighton was below us - they do not own the arena. And clearly their deal to join the Big East is not on par with old BE members. They are not even in top 55 - despite having by far the largest average attendance in the BE at 17k per game.
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Old 04-04-2019, 08:32 AM
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So let's say that the revenue number includes "everything." If UD were to get into the BE, and that generated an additional $1million per year in revenue, interestingly, that only jumps us up 2 slots to a tie with Alabama. Granted, an additional $1million per year would be very nice, but it doesn't move the needle much, overall. $2million moves us up 5.
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Old 04-04-2019, 08:49 AM
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Duke is the stunner for me. 50% more than UNC? How?
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Old 04-04-2019, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Lowd&ProUD View Post
Duke is the stunner for me. 50% more than UNC? How?
Residuals - Duke is on TV more than Leave it to Beaver.

Seriously, I think the Duke Brand is worth a whole lot more the UNC. Duke is big time national. UNC is more NC focused.
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Old 04-04-2019, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Lowd&ProUD View Post
Duke is the stunner for me. 50% more than UNC? How?
Strange. UNC avg attendance 18,300 and Duke 9,300. They are about equal in NCAA results (credits) in the last five years. Duke charges $8,000 for a seat license and UNC ranges between $6,000 and $25,000.

Duke does sell the crap out of merchandise. I remember visiting the campus about ten years ago in the summer. We decided to go over to their University Store and get a t-shirt. It opened at 10 AM. It was 9:30 and about 50 people were in line.

Still you are right, it makes no sense.
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Old 04-04-2019, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
So let's say that the revenue number includes "everything." If UD were to get into the BE, and that generated an additional $1million per year in revenue, interestingly, that only jumps us up 2 slots to a tie with Alabama. Granted, an additional $1million per year would be very nice, but it doesn't move the needle much, overall. $2million moves us up 5.
The Big East TV contract is currently paying each school $4.1 million per year. $500 million, 12 years, 10 schools.

That would bump us up 9 spots.

I forgot that that was a 12, not 10, year deal.

Deal runs thru the 2025-2026 season.

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Old 04-04-2019, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Strange. UNC avg attendance 18,300 and Duke 9,300. They are about equal in NCAA results (credits) in the last five years. Duke charges $8,000 for a seat license and UNC ranges between $6,000 and $25,000.

Duke does sell the crap out of merchandise. I remember visiting the campus about ten years ago in the summer. We decided to go over to their University Store and get a t-shirt. It opened at 10 AM. It was 9:30 and about 50 people were in line.

Still you are right, it makes no sense.
People buy a lot of Duke Jerseys to burn in effigy. Or to use for toilet paper.
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Old 04-08-2019, 12:37 PM
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The WSJ has an article today publishing the estimated values for each college basketball team. It is probably behind a paywall, but here is the link: https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-muc...th-11554739458


There is obviously a high correlation with basketball revenue. In this ranking, Dayton is #18 with a valuation of ~$100mm. A few other programs of interest:

#1 Kentucky $334mm
#5 Indiana $196mm
#13 Ohio State $117mm
#26 Marquette $72mm
#35 Gonzaga $66mm
#38 Xavier $62mm
#50 Georgetown $50mm
#67 Creighton $37mm
#76 Cincinnati $31mm
#78 St. Louis $30mm

Last edited by udpumpkin; 04-08-2019 at 02:27 PM.. Reason: corrected the link to this year
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Old 04-08-2019, 12:47 PM
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The link leads to a story from last year.
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Old 04-08-2019, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
The link leads to a story from last year.
Sorry, corrected it to this year's story. UD was 20th in last year's ranking.
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Old 04-08-2019, 04:43 PM
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Cant remember if it was Wabler or Sullivan I talked to about this generic topic. I talked to someone about it once. From what I recall the messaging I got was there is no uniform way of accounting for athletic departments and many do it in completely different ways that end up showing P&L in totally different manners. For some schools (Vanderbilt???) they view many athletic expenses as academic expenses and are placed on the books that way. There are schools that make far fewer distinctions and separations between athletic and academic revenue/expenditures. This is especially true with how universities handle capital expenses that are either expensed over long terms or depreciated over long terms.

I would not get too caught up in these rankings other than the schools that have large followings and lots of success tend to make more money than schools that don't. But the "whos 4th compared to who's 18th" is really not an important discussion. There are too many ways to run your accounting methods to spit out the number you want that most benefits your school's footprint, student recruiting, private and federal research grants, diversity, housing renovations/improvements, academic support, athletic investment to suit your books -- and it may even be a fluid thing that changes year to year based on local tax credits, property taxes, payroll taxes, etc

A perfect example is the current UD music building. Its mostly unused and sitting at the end of Baujan Field. Athletics would like to tear it down and improve Baujan/surrounding area. But they are hoping if they wait long enough the academic side will do it and save them the money from doing it themselves since its, well, an academic building -- but to make room for athletics. Its a game of chicken. Depending on who wins the game would probably affect how the cost was carried on UD's books which could effect rankings like this that take into account these sort of things. I realize its not basketball, but the general arithmetic premise still applies.
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Old 04-08-2019, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Cant remember if it was Wabler or Sullivan I talked to about this generic topic. I talked to someone about it once. From what I recall the messaging I got was there is no uniform way of accounting for athletic departments and many do it in completely different ways that end up showing P&L in totally different manners. For some schools (Vanderbilt???) they view many athletic expenses as academic expenses and are placed on the books that way. There are schools that make far fewer distinctions and separations between athletic and academic revenue/expenditures. This is especially true with how universities handle capital expenses that are either expensed over long terms or depreciated over long terms.

I would not get too caught up in these rankings other than the schools that have large followings and lots of success tend to make more money than schools that don't. But the "whos 4th compared to who's 18th" is really not an important discussion. There are too many ways to run your accounting methods to spit out the number you want that most benefits your school's footprint, student recruiting, private and federal research grants, diversity, housing renovations/improvements, academic support, athletic investment to suit your books -- and it may even be a fluid thing that changes year to year based on local tax credits, property taxes, payroll taxes, etc

A perfect example is the current UD music building. Its mostly unused and sitting at the end of Baujan Field. Athletics would like to tear it down and improve Baujan/surrounding area. But they are hoping if they wait long enough the academic side will do it and save them the money from doing it themselves since its, well, an academic building -- but to make room for athletics. Its a game of chicken. Depending on who wins the game would probably affect how the cost was carried on UD's books which could effect rankings like this that take into account these sort of things. I realize its not basketball, but the general arithmetic premise still applies.
Do you think that Dayton's # is right?
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