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  #1  
Old 11-23-2022, 05:30 PM
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BFA Ė WI Game Ė Offense Cuts the Cheese

Well, offense took a break for both teams. Ended as a stinker.

Have to bounce back tomorrow and thatís all that matters tomorrow.

Whoís your POG?
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2022, 05:33 PM
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Camara anchored our defense and had a game-saving block at the end. Our offense unfortunately couldn’t make it count.
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2022, 05:43 PM
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My player of the game was Amzil, the only one who could hit the broad side of the barn the 1st half. Without him we would've been down 16 or more at the half.
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Old 11-23-2022, 05:45 PM
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Camara Amazil and Elvis only choices.

This team is 2 games away from digging themselves a really deep hole that will be hard to earn an at large bid from. They canít do any worse than 1-1 in the next 2 and really need to win both to right the ship and earn some breathing room.

Once again a UD team gets top 25 recognition only to spit the bit. This song is getting really old. Mike was probably the most stabilizing and consistent force on the team not named Camara and heís nowhere to be found the last 2 games. Maybe his psyche should have been considered.

A confident shooter and great facilitator would be a great thing to have on the court right now. Hopefully heíll reappear at some point.
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Old 11-23-2022, 05:50 PM
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The Kobe Elvis who took over for that stretch in the second half
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Old 11-23-2022, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
The Kobe Elvis who took over for that stretch in the second half
The reason I don't give it to him is, well two of them. First, he helped dig us out of a hole that he had as much to do with putting us in the first place and 2nd of all, when he made a couple shots, he forced another(which I saw coming and hate when a player does this). Just because you make 2 great shots is no reason to chuck the offense and keep forcing it. It winds up giving the other team a 4 point swing to nullify what you did right.
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Old 11-23-2022, 06:01 PM
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Camara had that sensational block at the end,
unfortunate we could not get a W out of it...
I'll still go with Camara..

Elvis close 2nd, but as good as he was in the 2nd half,
he was just as bad in the first half...
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  #8  
Old 11-23-2022, 06:07 PM
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I just want to say, since this is replacing the Rollo's post game thread, include the loser one's, that I don't know if it was Grant or Mali doing it himself, but when we got close and Mali just stopped with ball and let 15 seconds run off the clock, it was a terrible strategy against this quality of defense. They had clockshot violations 2 times in a row I believe when they did that. You need every bit of clock you can find to get a good shot against this opponent and you don't stall when your losing.
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  #9  
Old 11-23-2022, 06:10 PM
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Camera was great on d. Elvis and Amzil were the offense. Mali was a mess. Just dibbled aimlessly until the shot clock went down.. wasnít productive personally or in running the offense. Mike is a much better player at this point. Blakey may have been replaced.. hopefully-as he has showed interest or perhaps ability to play on offense. A great defender we canít afford given our offensive challenges.
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  #10  
Old 11-23-2022, 06:19 PM
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Nobody looked like they wanted it at the end. Then the Flyers ended up with a bad decision on a soft drive. Better get it figured out quick. Choked at the stripe to boot. Can't do that in these tight ones. But I don't see that changing for Holmes any time soon. Just seems like some players just can't ever get around the corner from the charity stripe.

VERY winnable game .......
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  #11  
Old 11-23-2022, 06:22 PM
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it is obvious, that Mali is not 100% back from his injury. He is lacking the explosiveness of last year. I think that hurt the offense.


I believe more than Brea were sick after the Vegas trip.

This team needs to get healthy and then get more killer instinct. Nobody is laying over for them.
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Old 11-23-2022, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
it is obvious, that Mali is not 100% back from his injury. He is lacking the explosiveness of last year. I think that hurt the offense.


I believe more than Brea were sick after the Vegas trip.

This team needs to get healthy and then get more killer instinct. Nobody is laying over for them.
Agree with Mali. But expect that other teams are having issues with sick players this time of year. Or is the flu/covid/rsv/whatever only hitting Dayton?
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  #13  
Old 11-23-2022, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Canonball View Post
Nobody looked like they wanted it at the end. Then the Flyers ended up with a bad decision on a soft drive. Better get it figured out quick. Choked at the stripe to boot. Can't do that in these tight ones. But I don't see that changing for Holmes any time soon. Just seems like some players just can't ever get around the corner from the charity stripe.

VERY winnable game .......
after watching this team last season and the start of this one, I'm convinced that we are better just looking for a good shot when the shot clock is off(both halves) rather than taking the clock down. Odds say we're better trying to win holding a 1 point lead on defense than trying to get winning shot off in final 5 seconds.
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  #14  
Old 11-23-2022, 06:39 PM
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God love Elvis. His hot streak got us back in the game, but he doesn’t know when to back off. He’s taken 64 shots in our five games, by far the most of any player on the team. That’s about 13 a game. I get it that he’s a shooting guard, but those numbers are indicative of how poor a job we’ve done feeding the post. Mali as a facilitator can help correct this as he gets back to 100 percent, but Elvis needs to be more consistent and selective in his shooting … and more willing to drive and dish.

Camara was the steadiest all-around contributor today, but boy did those two bricked free throws hurt.

Last edited by The Fly; 11-23-2022 at 06:44 PM..
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  #15  
Old 11-23-2022, 07:26 PM
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We now get NC St, a pressing team with two of the quickest guards we will see this year.
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Old 11-23-2022, 07:28 PM
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The thing that is killing me is that towards the end, we got the ball to Holmes in the post with WI's point guard on him and he chose to pass the ball to the baseline 3, which Amzil then air-balled. Holmes has to take it to the hoop there. Get fouled...something. In what wound up a 1 point game, I can't help but have that replay stuck in my head.

It was frustrating to see some of their big guys banging down low when they had the ball and then us not looking at all to do the same, especially down the stretch.

Feels like this team is playing at their floor level, nowhere near their ceiling.
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Old 11-23-2022, 07:57 PM
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51% of our shots from 3Ö.4/27 doesnít win too often.
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  #18  
Old 11-23-2022, 07:57 PM
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I'll cast my vote for Amzil. Had a solid game. Stayed within himself.
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Old 11-23-2022, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by SC_Flyer View Post
The thing that is killing me is that towards the end, we got the ball to Holmes in the post with WI's point guard on him and he chose to pass the ball to the baseline 3, which Amzil then air-balled. Holmes has to take it to the hoop there. Get fouled...something. In what wound up a 1 point game, I can't help but have that replay stuck in my head.

It was frustrating to see some of their big guys banging down low when they had the ball and then us not looking at all to do the same, especially down the stretch.

Feels like this team is playing at their floor level, nowhere near their ceiling.
I saw this too, and Holmes has to be able to take advantage of this mismatch and quit being soft. This whole team is soft it seems like.
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Old 11-23-2022, 08:00 PM
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On the other end, my down vote goes to AG. Our situational play is brutal, and has not been good at all this year. He owns that. We had the ball with what, 25 seconds, and to use a timeout, and still had a crappy answer after that. Happened earlier int he game also.

AG has to step up and make adjustments. One of which, in my opinion, is to coach Elvis that he has to be more efficient. We can't continually have him throwing up 15 shots a game and hitting 35%.
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Old 11-23-2022, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I just want to say, since this is replacing the Rollo's post game thread, include the loser one's, that I don't know if it was Grant or Mali doing it himself, but when we got close and Mali just stopped with ball and let 15 seconds run off the clock, it was a terrible strategy against this quality of defense. They had clockshot violations 2 times in a row I believe when they did that. You need every bit of clock you can find to get a good shot against this opponent and you don't stall when your losing.
You're correct,YTD, we stink at situational basketball at key time. AG has to clean this up.
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Old 11-23-2022, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I just want to say, since this is replacing the Rollo's post game thread, include the loser one's, that I don't know if it was Grant or Mali doing it himself, but when we got close and Mali just stopped with ball and let 15 seconds run off the clock, it was a terrible strategy against this quality of defense. They had clockshot violations 2 times in a row I believe when they did that. You need every bit of clock you can find to get a good shot against this opponent and you don't stall when your losing.
I thought the same thing, Smitty! In fact, I was yelling at Mali to "run the darned offense." They ended up throwing some horrible shot at the basket as time expired on the shot clock. Frankly, this offense is as bad as I have ever seen it. Fortunately, our defense was good. But there was not nearly enough dribble penetration, not enough ball screens, and perimeter passing to the point of my screaming at the television.
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Old 11-23-2022, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
it is obvious, that Mali is not 100% back from his injury. He is lacking the explosiveness of last year. I think that hurt the offense.


I believe more than Brea were sick after the Vegas trip.

This team needs to get healthy and then get more killer instinct. Nobody is laying over for them.
Seemed some of the timing/chemistry was off too
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Old 11-23-2022, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SC_Flyer View Post
The thing that is killing me is that towards the end, we got the ball to Holmes in the post with WI's point guard on him and he chose to pass the ball to the baseline 3, which Amzil then air-balled. Holmes has to take it to the hoop there. Get fouled...something. In what wound up a 1 point game, I can't help but have that replay stuck in my head.

It was frustrating to see some of their big guys banging down low when they had the ball and then us not looking at all to do the same, especially down the stretch.

Feels like this team is playing at their floor level, nowhere near their ceiling.
I agree. Holmes is just playing way too soft. He is a mere shell of himself in March of last year.
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Old 11-23-2022, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
Camara had that sensational block at the end,
unfortunate we could not get a W out of it...
I'll still go with Camara..

Elvis close 2nd, but as good as he was in the 2nd half,
he was just as bad in the first half...
Is it just me but am I the only one who thinks that Camara is given a free pass on turnovers. The block he had at the end of the game was sensational but for every two good plays he makes he has a critical turnover. Its like two steps forward then one step back! At about the 1:30 second mark left in the game he threw a pass on the base line under the basket directly to the Wisconsin player. We were only one point behind at the time and then they came down and went up three! Then he missed two free throws which maybe could have got us the win!


I am getting so tired of unforced turnovers and it is not just Camara! It is just about everybody! I hope Koby Brea gets over the flu quickly because we could sure use him.
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Old 11-23-2022, 10:56 PM
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https://twitter.com/Sharavjamts55/st...07533997236225

Another opinion.
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Old 11-23-2022, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
https://twitter.com/Sharavjamts55/st...07533997236225

Another opinion.
Yeah, not sure why Elvis was handling the ball when Mali was resting. Itís beyond clear he isnít a point guard
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Old 11-23-2022, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
https://twitter.com/Sharavjamts55/st...07533997236225

Another opinion.
The tweet has been deleted. I have a feeling the coaching staff may have censored that.
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Old 11-23-2022, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer View Post
I am getting so tired of unforced turnovers and it is not just Camara! It is just about everybody! I hope Koby Brea gets over the flu quickly because we could sure use him.
This is exactly why I cannot vote for Camara as our PoG today. If you have the team high TO count, I will not and cannot vote for you (unless it's a very fluke extremely low TO game, you're the PG, and you still had far more assists).
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Old 11-23-2022, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
https://twitter.com/Sharavjamts55/st...07533997236225

Another opinion.
there is no twitter for that link, it may of been taken down
can you say what it said? doesn't have to be word for word,
but what was the main point..
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  #31  
Old 11-24-2022, 12:10 AM
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Man, when looking at this box score, both teams looked evenly horrific in almost every category, enough to think it was an even game, which it kind of was seeing that it was a 1 point difference. But the one stat that stands out is turnovers. We had 17(which seems kind of normal for us) they had 10(which seems abnormal for our defense).

But here's what get me. Their horrid shooting was mostly caused by our defense while our horrid shooting was mostly caused by bad shooting. What I mean by that is that on most of their misses, you could see that our defense closed out on them just in time to make them alter their shots(and yes, I know they had a few open misses). When we missed, you just never saw an excuse for it. Yes, you expect we should miss 60-65 percent of our outside shots, but we missed much more than that and most of them were open and had plenty of time to get the shot off.

One other thing I want to mention, DaRon has to be injured or sick. I can't think of any other reason that Zimi was in there so quickly, prior to the 1st auto timeout of the game, and stayed in for 3 minutes. It was like trying to buy time off for DaRon but seeing it wasn't going to work so they played him the rest of the game with no rest.

Whatever is ailing this team, we need to get at least one win out of this tournament and get our shooting straightened out. The good news is, we know we're not this bad at it because Mali, Elvis and Blakney showed they weren't this unbelievably bad at it over a full season last year and there's just no way that Mike is either. It seems like Mustapha has gotten better while the rest of the returning players all got worse, how can that be?

I'm frustrated, but I just know that this team will gel this season, let's just hope that it's soon enough that they don't have to win the conference tournament to have it payoff.

Last edited by Smitty10; 11-24-2022 at 12:14 AM..
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Old 11-24-2022, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
there is no twitter for that link, it may of been taken down
can you say what it said? doesn't have to be word for word,
but what was the main point..
A comment about how M Mike should have been running the offense when Mali was out with a pic of one of his awesome no look passes from earlier this season. Who could disagree? Kobe can light it up for a couple minutes at a time, but he is atrocious at the point
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Old 11-24-2022, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
51% of our shots from 3Ö.4/27 doesnít win too often.
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Might be the only post Iíll ever agree with maddog on. This was the first full game Iíve seen this year. Saw a small part of one earlier. In the first half I thought we canít get the ball into Holmes or Camara. Any of our guys even looked at Holmes, Wisc would double him. I had some thoughts.

1. We must have been successful feeding it inside before yesterday, because we didnít really change the offense in the first half.
2. We arenít driving the lane to force those defending our 2 bigs to pick up a driving player.
3. Why isnít AG pulling Holmes or Camara out front to run the offense we ran with Obi, opening up the pick-role and cutting lanes? (He did that more in the 2nd half.)
4. When Holmes/Camara do get it inside, they need to be more inclined to go to the hoop. Especially in a game we donít have our best 3 point shooter. Itís clear these two have bought in to AGís Team First philosophy. And, you love they have. ButÖAG needs to give these two players the green light to become more aggressive on offense for the benefit of the team. And itís on the player to do just that. Make a quick inside move. If itís not there, send it back outside. They both seem to hesitate in making a quick offensive move and that causes them to pass back out more often then they should.

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Old 11-24-2022, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by zmz723 View Post
A comment about how M Mike should have been running the offense when Mali was out with a pic of one of his awesome no look passes from earlier this season. Who could disagree? Kobe can light it up for a couple minutes at a time, but he is atrocious at the point
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It must have been taken down. It was his dad venting that Mike should slide to point when Mali is out, that he has been trained to do that since he was 7, and he makes his teammates better in that role.
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Old 11-24-2022, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Man, when looking at this box score, both teams looked evenly horrific in almost every category, enough to think it was an even game, which it kind of was seeing that it was a 1 point difference. But the one stat that stands out is turnovers. We had 17(which seems kind of normal for us) they had 10(which seems abnormal for our defense).

But here's what get me. Their horrid shooting was mostly caused by our defense while our horrid shooting was mostly caused by bad shooting. What I mean by that is that on most of their misses, you could see that our defense closed out on them just in time to make them alter their shots(and yes, I know they had a few open misses). When we missed, you just never saw an excuse for it. Yes, you expect we should miss 60-65 percent of our outside shots, but we missed much more than that and most of them were open and had plenty of time to get the shot off.

One other thing I want to mention, DaRon has to be injured or sick. I can't think of any other reason that Zimi was in there so quickly, prior to the 1st auto timeout of the game, and stayed in for 3 minutes. It was like trying to buy time off for DaRon but seeing it wasn't going to work so they played him the rest of the game with no rest.

Whatever is ailing this team, we need to get at least one win out of this tournament and get our shooting straightened out. The good news is, we know we're not this bad at it because Mali, Elvis and Blakney showed they weren't this unbelievably bad at it over a full season last year and there's just no way that Mike is either. It seems like Mustapha has gotten better while the rest of the returning players all got worse, how can that be?

I'm frustrated, but I just know that this team will gel this season, let's just hope that it's soon enough that they don't have to win the conference tournament to have it payoff.
Agree our defense on the inside limited them. But man, they missed so many wide open 3's it was silly. There was a point I was rooting that they would take more. Neither side was effective behind the arc.
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Old 11-24-2022, 10:56 AM
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How do we feel about RJ Blakney right now? He seems genuinely lost when he is on the court in almost every facet of the game currently.
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Old 11-24-2022, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by flyerfeedback2018 View Post
How do we feel about RJ Blakney right now? He seems genuinely lost when he is on the court in almost every facet of the game currently.
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I love the kid (h3!!, I love all of our players), but the stat line shows that he was no more than an animatronic figure on the court for us yesterday. 0-4 from the field, with no FT attempts, no assists, no fouls, 2 rebounds, and 2 TOs in 13 minutes. If he doesnít get himself right, heís going to be the odd man out once Breaís health improves, because no matter how good his defense is, as a perimeter player, he needs to contribute to the success of the offense. His stat line was a microcosm of our offensive ďsuccessĒ yesterday. That canít continue.
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Old 11-24-2022, 11:25 AM
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Years ago, when Romeo Crennel was head coach of the Browns, they were never prepared at the start of the season. The sucked the first 3 games of the season before they all started to figure out their team assignments. Thus losing in a more competitive fashion.
Comparing last year early season to this, I can't help but see a similarity that we struggle early season figuring out offensive situations. Too many times they don't seem to know or be sure who should take the shot. Easiest tendency is then to pass around perimeter hoping someone else shoots, or figures out what to do. Often Camera, or Holmes were open in the paint, but we hesitated passing and the opportunity was lost.
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Old 11-24-2022, 12:47 PM
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I have to agree that Mike should be running the point when Mali is out. In fact, with Mali missing just about all of preseason, it may a good idea to start Mike there for a few games until Mali has gotten back to full game fitness. We should keep Elvis away from that roll as much as possible as we need him to focus on making shots.
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Old 11-24-2022, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by flyerfeedback2018 View Post
How do we feel about RJ Blakney right now? He seems genuinely lost when he is on the court in almost every facet of the game currently.
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We need him to play better. That's it.

Start on the D side today against NC State. Someone's got to stop one of their guards. Mali can handle one, but Elvis cannot play D like RJ.
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Old 11-25-2022, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
This team is 2 games away from digging themselves a really deep hole that will be hard to earn an at large bid from. They can’t do any worse than 1-1 in the next 2 and really need to win both to right the ship and earn some breathing room.
We need to get this turned around sooner rather than later, there aren't going to be enough resume-building game opportunities that can be used to dig out of this hole if we keep losing. We are already the 7th team out at this point. Every additional loss makes the hole deeper.
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Old 11-25-2022, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
We need to get this turned around sooner rather than later, there aren't going to be enough resume-building game opportunities that can be used to dig out of this hole if we keep losing. We are already the 7th team out at this point. Every additional loss makes the hole deeper.
Better start today because we now need to win out in the non-con. I don't need Figgie to tell me the odds of a mid major getting an at-large after a single-digit win total.
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Old 11-25-2022, 01:54 PM
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Until Mali develops an outside shot teams can play off him (a la London Warren) and remove any threat of drive and dish. Even if he is still slowed by injury his ineffectiveness wonít go away once fully healthy until a shot is developed. His shots werenít close and his form is not good. If he didnít develop it in the off season seems unlikely to be done in season.

NC Stateís last 3 minute offense looked eerily similar to our offensive sets in both games. The only difference is NC State was intentionally running it to burn clock while UD calls it their had court O.
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Old 11-25-2022, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
Until Mali develops an outside shot teams can play off him (a la London Warren) and remove any threat of drive and dish. Even if he is still slowed by injury his ineffectiveness won’t go away once fully healthy until a shot is developed. His shots weren’t close and his form is not good. If he didn’t develop it in the off season seems unlikely to be done in season.

NC State’s last 3 minute offense looked eerily similar to our offensive sets in both games. The only difference is NC State was intentionally running it to burn clock while UD calls it their had court O.
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How in the heck can he have a built in teacher in the family and still not know how important it is to have repertoire of different ways to finish at the rim to keep the defender off balance? And his outside shot didn't look bad last season other than those times when he looked gassed at the end of games because he was the only PG on the roster.

I realize he's not Scooch, but I thought he brought with him a set of skills that would make him almost as effective. So far the only one I've seen is as a lockdown defender. So far this season, we'd be better off with a Khari Price type who knew his limitations and got the job done.
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Old 11-25-2022, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
Until Mali develops an outside shot teams can play off him (a la London Warren) and remove any threat of drive and dish. Even if he is still slowed by injury his ineffectiveness wonít go away once fully healthy until a shot is developed. His shots werenít close and his form is not good. If he didnít develop it in the off season seems unlikely to be done in season.

NC Stateís last 3 minute offense looked eerily similar to our offensive sets in both games. The only difference is NC State was intentionally running it to burn clock while UD calls it their had court O.
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He doesnít need to develop an outside shot. Last year he shot a very fine 40% from 3. 20/50. Now thatís not a lot of shots. < 2 per game but if he picks his spots heís effective.

Heís already taken double that rate in 2 games this year and hit none. I think heís not in top shape yet
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