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  #1  
Old 02-27-2021, 01:27 PM
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2021 coaching carousel

Coaching changes tracker.

https://hoopdirt.com/2021-college-ba...anges-tracker/



Odds for the next BC hc.

Former Michigan hc John Beilein is apparently the favorite right now.

BC is the biggest, currently open, job.

https://hoopdirt.com/boston-college-...g-search-odds/
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  #2  
Old 02-27-2021, 06:41 PM
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Maddog, if the UD job were available who would you go after??
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Old 02-27-2021, 08:24 PM
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Maddog, if the UD job were available who would you go after??

Going to keep doing this until maddog provides an answer.
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Old 02-27-2021, 10:55 PM
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New Mexico was once a proud program - their coach wont be back,
Miami (FL) and Notre Dame aren't used to being irrelevant, either.
We will see . . .

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Old 02-27-2021, 11:05 PM
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Would need to conduct a national search and consider several. Among those that come first to mind is Porter Moser. We’d likely avoid those in our conference but Schmidt and Rhodes would seem qualified. Consideration of Randy Bennett, John Beilien and perhaps Earl Grant. There are likely a good number of up and coming assistants to look at as well.

Then there is alway Ray Harper!
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Old 02-28-2021, 08:34 AM
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IU fans are tossing around Bruce Pearl or Brad Stevens for their next coach...
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Old 02-28-2021, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
IU fans are tossing around Bruce Pearl or Brad Stevens for their next coach...
Bruce Pearl...hilarious. This from the school that had Kelvin Sampson.

How about a carousel for those who should not be coaching? For starters:

Sean Miller
Bruce Pearl
Will Wade
Bill Self
Slick Rick Pitino
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  #8  
Old 02-28-2021, 01:16 PM
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Is Brad Stevens getting fired? Not sure he would take IU unless he was.
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Old 02-28-2021, 02:48 PM
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If Stevens were to get fired, another NBA team would snatch him up in like 5 minutes (like Billy Donovan)
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  #10  
Old 02-28-2021, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
If Stevens were to get fired, another NBA team would snatch him up in like 5 minutes (like Billy Donovan)
Guess it depends if he loves coaching NBA vs college. As an Indiana native I’m guessing IU would be intriguing IF he itches to return to coaching college basketball. I do think Archie gets one more year. But if no NCAA next year “he gone”.
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Old 02-28-2021, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Is Brad Stevens getting fired? Not sure he would take IU unless he was.
Brad Stevens is not getting fired. He signed a contract extension last year:

https://www.nba.com/news/celtics-sig...ract-extension
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Old 02-28-2021, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Brad Stevens is not getting fired. He signed a contract extension last year:

https://www.nba.com/news/celtics-sig...ract-extension
Meaningless without understanding the terms. Is it one year or ten years? Out or buyout clauses? He also signed the extension coming off a couple solid years. He’s below 500 this year. See how long that plays in Boston - contract or not.

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  #13  
Old 02-28-2021, 04:10 PM
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Like I said, Brad Stevens is not getting fired. His original deal was for 6 years and NFW he's working on a year-to-year deal. Like the article says the Celts don't release terms of contracts. Getting fired for being a .500 ball club in a COVID-infested season, when only 3 of the 8 teams in the Eastern conference are currently above .500 would be sheer idiocy by Danny Ainge.
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Old 03-01-2021, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Would need to conduct a national search and consider several. Among those that come first to mind is Porter Moser. We’d likely avoid those in our conference but Schmidt and Rhodes would seem qualified. Consideration of Randy Bennett, John Beilien and perhaps Earl Grant. There are likely a good number of up and coming assistants to look at as well.

Then there is alway Ray Harper!
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I really like Porter Moser, but Porter is a lot about, well Porter. Not sure I view him as any kind of upgrade from Grant. For me, I prefer Grant over Moser.

And I LOVE, LOVE Mark Schmidt. Worked with Prosser coming out of the gates at Xavier. But still, I take Grant over Schmidt.

I'd stick with Grant over both Bennett and Earl Grant.

If we could get Beilein to listen? I'd consider that an upgrade.

But still, I'm fully vested in CAG and I don't see any reason to look elsewhere at this time.
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2021, 04:39 PM
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With what Schmidt did at St B I’d like to see what he could do with Dayton’s resources
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  #16  
Old 03-01-2021, 06:26 PM
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I want someone that won’t use UD as a stepping stone. Grant.
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Old 03-01-2021, 07:57 PM
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To me this discussion is like asking if the moon were made of cheese, what cheese would it be?
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Old 03-01-2021, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
With what Schmidt did at St B I’d like to see what he could do with Dayton’s resources
People have been saying this about Schmidt and plug in any/every team's resources for like 10 years.
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Old 03-01-2021, 08:05 PM
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I would say the Penn State job is as big as BC. A huge fan told me Schmidt is one of their top 5?
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Old 03-01-2021, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Shawnee2 View Post
I would say the Penn State job is as big as BC. A huge fan told me Schmidt is one of their top 5?
Between Penn State and St. Bonaventure, I couldn't tell you which basketball program is less historically relevant.

Just ride it out in Olean, Mark. One in the hand is worth two in the bush. Look at Archie and all these sad SOBs that went chasing big jobs. Then again, a vacation home or two can fix a lot of ills.
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Old 03-01-2021, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by flyer016 View Post
Between Penn State and St. Bonaventure, I couldn't tell you which basketball program is less historically relevant.

Just ride it out in Olean, Mark. One in the hand is worth two in the bush. Look at Archie and all these sad SOBs that went chasing big jobs. Then again, a vacation home or two can fix a lot of ills.
Don’t see him going to Penn State. He’s making all in something around $1MM now. Penn State has not traditionally paid more. If he were to go I would think it would be only for a major raise. Boston College could be that. He’s 58 and may not get too many more chances if he wants to max out.
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Old 03-01-2021, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Don’t see him going to Penn State. He’s making all in something around $1MM now. Penn State has not traditionally paid more. If he were to go I would think it would be only for a major raise. Boston College could be that. He’s 58 and may not get too many more chances if he wants to max out.
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He's a BC grad, too. So, factor that in as well.

I could see Schmidt taking that job for sentimental reasons, but that's hardly a plum job given the challenges of competing in the ACC.

I have a hard time seeing the appeal of most of these jobs, especially when you've built something like he has in Olean. Leverage a little more money out of Bona and ride it out there. They'll name the stadium after you one day.
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Old 03-01-2021, 09:54 PM
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Except Schmidt has all five starters back next year, and may have told these guys he will see them graduate. If they all come back, he has a shot at a special season, then he leaves.
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Old 03-01-2021, 11:28 PM
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Talking

Originally Posted by John C. View Post
To me this discussion is like asking if the moon were made of cheese, what cheese would it be?

"If the Moon were made of barbecued spare ribs, would you eat it then?
What?
I know I would - heck, I'd have seconds!"

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Old 03-01-2021, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by John C. View Post
To me this discussion is like asking if the moon were made of cheese, what cheese would it be?

I think it's more like you're married to the most awesome and beautiful wife possible, so which skank would you hook up with?
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Old 03-02-2021, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
With what Schmidt did at St B I’d like to see what he could do with Dayton’s resources
I’m sure Flyer assistant Anthony Solomon enjoys every single victory over the Bonnies. Solomon was brought in after the Van Breda Koff scandal/debacle and took the bullet of enduring defections and probation. Not sure the fascination with Schmidt other than he’s run a clean program. 14 years, slightly over .500 record, and 1-4 record in the postseason.
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Old 03-02-2021, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
I’m sure Flyer assistant Anthony Solomon enjoys every single victory over the Bonnies. Solomon was brought in after the Van Breda Koff scandal/debacle and took the bullet of enduring defections and probation. Not sure the fascination with Schmidt other than he’s run a clean program. 14 years, slightly over .500 record, and 1-4 record in the postseason.
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Olean is a tough place to win. The fact that he wins the conference occasionally, makes a run to the NCAA tournament every 4-5 years and always has Bona competitive is a real accomplishment.

He's got some helium right now. He just won the conference. So, people are naturally a little high on him at the moment, but make no bones about it, he's done great work.
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Old 03-02-2021, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
I’m sure Flyer assistant Anthony Solomon enjoys every single victory over the Bonnies. Solomon was brought in after the Van Breda Koff scandal/debacle and took the bullet of enduring defections and probation. Not sure the fascination with Schmidt other than he’s run a clean program. 14 years, slightly over .500 record, and 1-4 record in the postseason.
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Not every coaching success at each school is measured transparently. Lots of differences in what defines success.I have no idea if Schmidt could run a big program or not or even what his ultimate drives and goals are but he's done a very very nice job as their HC.
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Old 03-02-2021, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
. . . Not sure the fascination with Schmidt other than he’s run a clean program. 14 years, slightly over .500 record, and 1-4 record in the postseason.

He has to sell Olean, NY to his recruits. That's saying something right there.

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Old 03-02-2021, 06:05 PM
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Archies seat getting warm(er)

https://www.si.com/college/2021/02/2...fsSivDVj87ZfVA
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Old 03-02-2021, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Buster View Post
Archies seat getting warm(er)

https://www.si.com/college/2021/02/2...fsSivDVj87ZfVA
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That record of futility (not finishing above .500 in conference play for 4 straight seasons) must have IU fans reaching for the pitchforks and torches. This could wind up being a classic case of “Be careful what you wish for...”.
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Old 03-03-2021, 09:25 AM
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If the boosters step up and help with the buyout, AM is history. One game left at Purdue, probably a loss, 12-14 going into the BIG tourny. Indiana is not what it once was but by any measure Archie didn't come close to getting it done. Money wise he is set for life, a good position to be in, what he does next will be interesting, be it this year or next..

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Old 03-03-2021, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Buster View Post
Archies seat getting warm(er)

https://www.si.com/college/2021/02/2...fsSivDVj87ZfVA
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His current record: 67-55, just 33-42 in conference play. With a 7-10 Big Ten mark this year, Miller has earned the distinction of becoming the first coach in Indiana history to go his first four seasons at the school without a single winning record in league games.
OCH! OCH! and Then again OCH!

Reading the description in this article about the Indiana vs Rutgers game reads a little like some of UD's games against the bottom of the A10.
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Old 03-03-2021, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Buster View Post
Archies seat getting warm(er)

https://www.si.com/college/2021/02/2...fsSivDVj87ZfVA
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What makes IU's situation so curious is the fact that he is recruiting very good talent. He has not been able to create a "team" out of said talent. As a Flyer, he was able to take some moderately talented players and turn them into a real team.
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Old 03-03-2021, 12:03 PM
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http://www.hoosiersportsnation.com/i...ll-discussion/

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Old 03-03-2021, 12:23 PM
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Look at the “It’s time...Fire Archie Miller” thread and then the 2nd poster/post in a very long thread.
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Look at the “It’s time...Fire Archie Miller” thread and then the 2nd poster/post in a very long thread.
Keep him over there.
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Look at the “It’s time...Fire Archie Miller” thread and then the 2nd poster/post in a very long thread.
Thats hilarious, thanks for the laugh.
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
Look at the “It’s time...Fire Archie Miller” thread and then the 2nd poster/post in a very long thread.
This part of the quote is quite telling: "Hire someone that values defense, ball movement and shooting."

When Archie was here, the Flyers were generally a very good defensive team and ball movement was prevalent. And Archie created shooters out of guys like Devon Oliver who were not good shooters coming in. This to me is a matter of very talented "me-me-me" players who desire to showcase their own skills as opposed to playing as a team.
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:49 PM
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Schmidt will be the next coach at Boston College . Archie will be let go by

Indiana . Brad Stevens will be the next coach at Indiana .
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Old 03-03-2021, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
This part of the quote is quite telling: "Hire someone that values defense, ball movement and shooting."
I thought this quote was ridiculous. What coach doesn't value offense, defense, and ball movement.
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Old 03-03-2021, 10:31 PM
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I think Archie gets one more year, covid this year will save him IMO. If he does not get IU to the NCAAT next year, then IMO he will be fired.

Even without covid, he may not have been fired this year anyway if he does not make the ncaat this year.

Schmidt at SBU has done wonderfully, SBU has to be one of the toughest jobs in the country. IMO, he is the best coach they have ever had, look at their history.

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Old 03-03-2021, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I think Archie gets one more year, covid this year will save him IMO. If he does not get IU to the NCAAT next year, then IMO he will be fired.

Schmidt at SBU has done wonderfully, SBU has to be one of the toughest jobs in the country.
I think the 10 million dollar buyout is the biggest factor. Tough to pay someone that kind of money to go away. Also, having a season without the normal stream of basketball revenue makes it more problematic.
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Old 03-03-2021, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man View Post
I think the 10 million dollar buyout is the biggest factor. Tough to pay someone that kind of money to go away. Also, having a season without the normal stream of basketball revenue makes it more problematic.
Agree...and almost nobody gets fired after only 3 years...Todd Lickliter at Iowa and Marvin Menzie at UNLV are the only 3 year "modern era" firings I can even think of.

Edit: Jerry DeGregorio was fired at Rhode Island in 2001 after only 2 years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerr...99%20to%202001.


IU will at worst make the NIT this year, they are on the ncaat bubble, they are making at least some progress...they made the NIT last year.

I will be shocked if Archie is fired this year.

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Old 03-04-2021, 12:13 AM
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Kentucky fired Billy Gillespie after two seasons. I too think Archie is safe for another year. If IU doesnt make the NCAA this year however, it will be a stressful offseason.
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Old 03-04-2021, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View Post
Kentucky fired Billy Gillespie after two seasons.
Good point...but iinm, that was an unusual situation...I do not remember the details, but it was something like Billy never signed the contract when he was first hired...they were still sort of negotiating after a year or 2 and working based off of a memorandum of understanding or something...not a good move on his part I guess.

Details:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Gillispie#Firing:


Firing Edit
Gillispie was fired as the Wildcats' head coach on March 27, 2009.[26] Athletic director Mitch Barnhart told Gillispie that his firing was not related to on-court performance, but was due to a general feeling that Gillispie was "not a good fit" for UK. According to Barnhart, the "incompatibility" between Gillispie and UK specifically manifested itself in Gillispie's failure to sign a formal contract two years after his hiring. As mentioned above, Gillispie had coached for two years on a "Memorandum of Understanding," not a contract; UK initially considered it the equivalent of a series of one-year contracts.[27] UK had offered Gillispie a seven-year contract, but Gillispie had never signed it.[28]

Lawsuit and settlement Edit
On May 27, 2009, Gillispie filed a lawsuit against the University of Kentucky Athletic Association for breach of contract and fraud stemming from the firing.[29] The suit was filed in Gillispie's home state of Texas, in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas.[29] Gillispie was seeking $6 million, the amount he claimed the university owed him on the remaining years on the deal, punitive damages, attorney fees, and a jury trial.[29] The next day, the university filed a countersuit against Gillispie in Franklin Circuit Court in Frankfort, Kentucky's state capital.[30] In the countersuit, UK sought a judge's order that Gillispie's memorandum of understanding was not a formal contract.[30]

On October 13, 2009, UK and Gillispie agreed to settle the dispute.[31] Under the agreement, Gillispie got $2.98 million while UK paid over $265,000 in mediation costs.[31]

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Old 03-04-2021, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Monster Man View Post
I think the 10 million dollar buyout is the biggest factor. Tough to pay someone that kind of money to go away. Also, having a season without the normal stream of basketball revenue makes it more problematic.
And even tougher knowing the next guy you hire has to be a guy ready for the job who will command far more $ than AM did. Look, AM, while a very good coach, was an "up and comer" coach who only had HC experience at one school.Mistake or not, IU won't hire their next coach from a mid-major program as his only HC experience, imo.
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Old 03-04-2021, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Agree...and almost nobody gets fired after only 3 years...Todd Lickliter at Iowa and Marvin Menzie at UNLV are the only 3 year "modern era" firings I can even think of.

Edit: Jerry DeGregorio was fired at Rhode Island in 2001 after only 2 years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerr...99%20to%202001.


IU will at worst make the NIT this year, they are on the ncaat bubble, they are making at least some progress...they made the NIT last year.

I will be shocked if Archie is fired this year.
I believe this is Archie's fourth year. What are the stats for getting fired after four years. They will not make the NIT if they don't finish over .500.

Originally Posted by steve View Post
And even tougher knowing the next guy you hire has to be a guy ready for the job who will command far more $ than AM did. Look, AM, while a very good coach, was an "up and comer" coach who only had HC experience at one school.Mistake or not, IU won't hire their next coach from a mid-major program as his only HC experience, imo.
Not sure how much more money since what Archie gets paid at IU puts him in the top ten coaches in the NCAA.
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Old 03-04-2021, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I believe this is Archie's fourth year. What are the stats for getting fired after four years. They will not make the NIT if they don't finish over .500.



Not sure how much more money since what Archie gets paid at IU puts him in the top ten coaches in the NCAA.
According to USA today,currently, IU is ranked 20th on what they're paying Miller. Should they fire AM,they're not going to go after anybody that's not been established and a sure thing in their minds this time around. I can guarantee you that's going to be far above 20th paid highest coach.

Back to the earlier post I was replying to, add that to the buyout and in these times it's alot of $$$.

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Old 03-04-2021, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I believe this is Archie's fourth year. What are the stats for getting fired after four years. They will not make the NIT if they don't finish over .500.



Not sure how much more money since what Archie gets paid at IU puts him in the top ten coaches in the NCAA.
Yeah, wow I really have a bad memory, my bad, this is Archie's 4th year at IU, not his 3rd...IU was likely going to make the nccat last year...so he was 1/3...no way he gets fired this year...next year does he get fired if they miss the ncaat? At maybe 1/5, yeah, I think he gets fired. See if they make it this year though. I think they make it next year though, I have a lot of confidence in him, it will all work out next year.

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Old 03-04-2021, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Yeah, wow I really have a bad memory, my bad, this is Archie's 4th year at IU, not his 3rd...IU was likely going to make the nccat last year...so he was 1/3...no way he gets fired this year...next year does he get fired if they miss the ncaat? At maybe 1/5, yeah, I think he gets fired. See if they make it this year though. I think they make it next year though, I have a lot of confidence in him, it will all work out next year.
Can I get some of what you are smoking?
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Old 03-05-2021, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Can I get some of what you are smoking?
So what, you think that IU does not make the ncaat next year? What was so radical about my post?

IU is Kenpom #39...they are the 8th team out on Torvik...they still have Purdue at home...if they win a game or 2 in the Big10T, they could make the field...none of that is radical.

They are not going to fire him after he would have made the ncaat last year with covid this year, that is total nonsense, not to mention the $10 million buyout.

And Archie's teams get better as the season goes on, they don't peak too early.

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Old 03-05-2021, 11:16 AM
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And BTW, look at Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, Michigan State, Louisville, and Syracuse this year, the blue bloods are not exactly tearing it up.

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Old 03-05-2021, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
So what, you think that IU does not make the ncaat next year? What was so radical about my post?

IU is Kenpom #39...they are the 8th team out on Torvik...they still have Purdue at home...if they win a game or 2 in the Big10T, they could make the field...none of that is radical.

They are not going to fire him after he would have made the ncaat last year with covid this year, that is total nonsense, not to mention the $10 million buyout.

And Archie's teams get better as the season goes on, they don't peak too early.
What? Just about everything here is wrong. IU has been tanking late in the season. They’ve lost 5 straight. The Purdue game is at Purdue. I’ve watched several of their games, they are not very good. Against a very mediocre Mich St team they shot 2 for 20 from the 3 line.
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Old 03-05-2021, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
So what, you think that IU does not make the ncaat next year? What was so radical about my post?

IU is Kenpom #39...they are the 8th team out on Torvik...they still have Purdue at home...if they win a game or 2 in the Big10T, they could make the field...none of that is radical.

They are not going to fire him after he would have made the ncaat last year with covid this year, that is total nonsense, not to mention the $10 million buyout.

And Archie's teams get better as the season goes on, they don't peak too early.
IU is at Purdue not the other way around. IU finishing strong with a 3-7 record in the last ten games and currently on a four game losing streak, with one to go at the Boilers, who by the way he has never beaten. So much for not peaking too early. As the phrase goes, "they are gathering steam". Only valid point you make is the buyout issue, that is real and if the boosters don't ante up, AM will probably have another year. If IU does not have a "winner" coach on deck, that could also contribute to Archie staying. The heat at IU is sun hot, good thing there were no fans this year, it would have been ugly. Could be ugly next yeaer as the fans return.

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Old 03-05-2021, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
What? Just about everything here is wrong. IU has been tanking late in the season. They’ve lost 5 straight. The Purdue game is at Purdue. I’ve watched several of their games, they are not very good. Against a very mediocre Mich St team they shot 2 for 20 from the 3 line.
Fair enough...Big 10 is brutal this year though, 12 teams in contention for a bid...IU is not out of the picture yet...all of those brutal games are a 2 sided coin: potential for lots of losses but also lots of big wins

Even Kenpom #68 NW is pretty good, the only "bad" team is Kenpom #95 Nebraska.

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Old 03-05-2021, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Fair enough...Big 10 is brutal this year though, 12 teams in contention for a bid...IU is not out of the picture yet...all of those brutal games are a 2 sided coin: potential for lots of losses but also lots of big wins

Even Kenpom #68 NW is pretty good, the only "bad" team is Kenpom #95 Nebraska.
Lots of excuses here. IU done this year.
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Old 03-05-2021, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
And BTW, look at Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, Michigan State, Louisville, and Syracuse this year, the blue bloods are not exactly tearing it up.

All of those teams will be dancing, except Duke & Kentucky.

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Old 03-05-2021, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Glen Clark View Post
All of those teams will be dancing, except Duke & Kentucky.

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Yeah, but some of those teams are barely getting in. You guys keep bashing Archie for being on the bubble.

Kentucky...out
Duke...out
Syracuse...out
NC...10 seed
Louisville...10
MSU...12

Another loss or 2 and NC, Louisville, and MSU may be out, the season is not over yet.
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Yeah, but some of those teams are barely getting in. You guys keep bashing Archie for being on the bubble.

Kentucky...out
Duke...out
Syracuse...out
NC...10 seed
Louisville...10
MSU...12

Another loss or 2 and NC, Louisville, and MSU may be out, the season is not over yet.
I don't have the information in front of me, but you may want to check at the last 3/4 years NCAAt seeds for the Blue Bloods mentioned above. And then go look at IU the last 3/4 years under Archie. You can;t just look at these "blue bloods" in a one year vacuum.

I'm a big Archie fan too and I'd like to see him have a ton of success. But his IU tenure has been sub-par. Not a train wreck, but certainly uninspiring.
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:20 PM
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FWIW, KenPom really likes IU this year, placing them 39th.

Per the KenPom figures, IU has been really unlucky (266th) and played one of the hardest schedules in the country (4th).

I know at the end of the day, it's wins and losses, conference championships and tourney runs, but the KenPom data (and Bart Torvik is also bullish) suggests they're not as far off as the critics might think.
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
I don't have the information in front of me, but you may want to check at the last 3/4 years NCAAt seeds for the Blue Bloods mentioned above. And then go look at IU the last 3/4 years under Archie. You can;t just look at these "blue bloods" in a one year vacuum.

I'm a big Archie fan too and I'd like to see him have a ton of success. But his IU tenure has been sub-par. Not a train wreck, but certainly uninspiring.
Fair enough, but there is no way he gets fired this year, which has been a point being pushed in this thread. Next year is likely do or die for Archie. And I get it, there are a lot of Archie haters on here, and some of that criticism I guess I partially begrudgingly agree with.
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by flyer016 View Post
FWIW, KenPom really likes IU this year, placing them 39th.

Per the KenPom figures, IU has been really unlucky (266th) and played one of the hardest schedules in the country (4th).

I know at the end of the day, it's wins and losses, conference championships and tourney runs, but the KenPom data (and Bart Torvik is also bullish) suggests they're not as far off as the critics might think.
And unfortunately, as much as the predictive measures like to lessen the importance of winning, the rules that Dr. Naismith drew up still say the objective of the game is to score the most points and actual WIN the game.
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Old 03-05-2021, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
And unfortunately, as much as the predictive measures like to lessen the importance of winning, the rules that Dr. Naismith drew up still say the objective of the game is to score the most points and actual WIN the game.
Appreciate you exposing your lack of numeracy and general ignorance.

What advanced metrics tell us is the team is better than the win-loss records suggests.

And you will note that I acknowledge the ultimate goal is, of course, victories, but learning how statistics works is valuable. Not everything is a 0 or 1, black or white. And the same goes with wins and losses. Some losses are better than others, as are some wins. Understanding this, and specifically why some wins and losses aren't what they seem, allow us to understand the program and its trajectory on a more nuanced level.

I know you don't care. I know you're not going to look into metrics or try understand why they're interesting to some. That doesn't make them any less valuable.
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Old 03-05-2021, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by flyer016 View Post
Appreciate you exposing your lack of numeracy and general ignorance.

What advanced metrics tell us is the team is better than the win-loss records suggests.

And you will note that I acknowledge the ultimate goal is, of course, victories, but learning how statistics works is valuable. Not everything is a 0 or 1, black or white. And the same goes with wins and losses. Some losses are better than others, as are some wins. Understanding this, and specifically why some wins and losses aren't what they seem, allow us to understand the program and its trajectory on a more nuanced level.

I know you don't care. I know you're not going to look into metrics or try understand why they're interesting to some. That doesn't make them any less valuable.
As a famous man once said-you are what your record says you are. The problem with the metric folks is that you can lose all your games (or at least a majority) by a close score and still have good metric numbers. I’ll take wins over metrics any day.
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Old 03-05-2021, 04:29 PM
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This time of year, only one metric keeps you moving on...
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Old 03-05-2021, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by flyer016 View Post
Appreciate you exposing your lack of numeracy and general ignorance.

What advanced metrics tell us is the team is better than the win-loss records suggests.

And you will note that I acknowledge the ultimate goal is, of course, victories, but learning how statistics works is valuable. Not everything is a 0 or 1, black or white. And the same goes with wins and losses. Some losses are better than others, as are some wins. Understanding this, and specifically why some wins and losses aren't what they seem, allow us to understand the program and its trajectory on a more nuanced level.

I know you don't care. I know you're not going to look into metrics or try understand why they're interesting to some. That doesn't make them any less valuable.
Like Grantland Rice wrote:

“For when the One Great Scorer comes to mark against your name, He writes not that you won or lost, but how you played the game!” – Grantland Rice.

But I'm more of a Vince Lombardi kinda man: ". . .the why do we keep score?"
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Old 03-05-2021, 09:00 PM
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It's not either/or.

It's an and situation. I follow wins and loses, and I like statistics. The metrics tell me more about wins and loses.
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Old 03-05-2021, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by flyer016 View Post
It's not either/or. It's an and situation. I follow wins and loses, and I like statistics. The metrics tell me more about wins and loses.

You can like metrics and not call someone ignorant who doesn't share your interest in them.
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Old 03-06-2021, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Fair enough, but there is no way he gets fired this year, which has been a point being pushed in this thread. Next year is likely do or die for Archie. And I get it, there are a lot of Archie haters on here, and some of that criticism I guess I partially begrudgingly agree with.
IU has been in the Big 10 since 1897. Archie is the first IU basketball coach to not have a winning conference record in any of his first 4 seasons. If the big $ donors want him gone, he's gone.
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Old 03-06-2021, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by shapanud View Post
IU has been in the Big 10 since 1897. Archie is the first IU basketball coach to not have a winning conference record in any of his first 4 seasons. If the big $ donors want him gone, he's gone.
Agree to disagree, they really do owe him $10 million if he is canned this year, it is not going to happen.


https://amp.indystar.com/story/sport...rs/4389051001/:


U basketball: Here's how much Archie Miller's contract buyout is
Zach Osterman
Indianapolis Star


BLOOMINGTON – IU coach Archie Miller’s buyout currently stretches into eight figures but will fall substantially in spring 2022.

According to the terms of his contract, signed upon his hiring in 2017, Miller would be owed 100% of remaining base, deferred and outside, marketing and promotional income, were he to be terminated without cause before March 31, 2022.

However, the terms of his buyout change dramatically beginning April 1, 2022. From that point forward, were he terminated without cause, Miller would only be owed 50% of all the aforementioned remaining income.

Miller currently earns $550,000 a year in base salary, plus another $1 million in deferred compensation. His outside, marketing and promotional income (OMPI) escalates over the course of his deal. Miller earned $1.65 million in OMPI in his first season in charge in Bloomington, that number rising by $50,000 each year of his seven-year contract.

Were Indiana to terminate Miller’s contract without cause before March 31 of next year, he would be owed whatever remained of those three pools of compensation. For reference, on April 1, 2021, that number would add up to approximately $10.35 million, that number subject to change as portions of Miller’s compensation are paid out monthly across the life of the contract.

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Old 03-06-2021, 07:59 PM
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Boston College

is a college coach's cemetery. Why would Coach Schmidt want to take that job when he has his whole team back next year? Oh I forgot. He lives in Olean, NY. Nevermind...
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Old 03-11-2021, 08:42 PM
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Sounded like about $10M worth of boos in Indianapolis tonight...Archie might be done.
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Old 03-11-2021, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse View Post
is a college coach's cemetery. Why would Coach Schmidt want to take that job when he has his whole team back next year? Oh I forgot. He lives in Olean, NY. Nevermind...
I anticipate some attrition with Bonnies. Look for a couple transfers to P5’s.
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Old 03-12-2021, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
I anticipate some attrition with Bonnies. Look for a couple transfers to P5’s.
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Interesting. Speculation? Or you actually hear something legit?
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Old 03-12-2021, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Sounded like about $10M worth of boos in Indianapolis tonight...Archie might be done.
I agree. I thought the $10M buyout would keep him around another year but the $10M is paid monthly over 3 years and is offset by income from another coaching job. I think IU would still pay $5M assuming Archie sits out a year, collects $3.3M and then gets another job that pays him less than IU.
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Old 03-12-2021, 01:07 PM
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Pocket change for IU.
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Old 03-12-2021, 01:21 PM
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Looking at his Kenpom rankings, Archie's offense at Indiana is the problem, their defensive ranking is IMO good enough to be a ncaat team. Offense was #92 in year 1, improved every year, but still only #61 this year. Defense has been between 26 and 40 over the last 3 years. I think they would make the nccat next year, but IU wants to be better than just making it, they want good seeds and deep runs most years.

I guess the only caveat I offer is to be careful about firing him now, as the next coach would know that if you don't hit it big after 4 years, you are out, good seeds and deep runs are required.
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Old 03-12-2021, 02:12 PM
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Archie’s offense here at UD was a breath of fresh air after the “Weave or Die” days of BG. But there was a definite change in how the offense functioned after Sibert graduated and Cooke came onboard, and it was not a change for the better. Sight unseen, I have a feeling that lack of functionality could have followed Archie to Bloomington. That emphasis on Players vs. System could prove to be his undoing at IU.
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Old 03-12-2021, 03:43 PM
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I keep waffling on this...I bet a lot of higher profile coaches IU would target as Archie's replacement might have multi-million dollar buyouts...so, Archie’s $10 million plus a multi-million buyout plus maybe $3 million per year for the new coach.

I will say Archie is safe for one more year, my final answer, lol.

And who would they target? Drew at Baylor?, Barnes at Tennessee?, Hamilton at FSU?, Hurley at Arizona State?, Schmidt at SBU?, Rhoades at VCU? McDermott at Creighton? Willard at Seton Hall?

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Old 03-12-2021, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I keep waffling on this...I bet a lot of higher profile coaches IU would target as Archie's replacement might have multi-million dollar buyouts...so, Archie’s $10 million plus a multi-million buyout plus maybe $3 million per year for the new coach.

I will say Archie is safe for one more year, my final answer, lol.

And who would they target? Drew at Baylor?, Barnes at Tennessee?, Hamilton at FSU?, Hurley at Arizona State?, Schmidt at SBU?, Rhoades at VCU? McDermott at Creighton? Willard at Seton Hall?
The only ones I see making much sense in your list are Drew and maybe Barnes. While Hamilton might be well qualified, he's been an East Coast (and mainly Florida) guy for a long, long time. Hard to see him uprooting to Bloomington.

Has Hurley done enough to even be considered?

McDermott seems interesting, although I don't see him jumping in the middle of this "plantation" controversy, if you want to call it that.
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  #82  
Old 03-12-2021, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Looking at his Kenpom rankings, Archie's offense at Indiana is the problem, their defensive ranking is IMO good enough to be a ncaat team. Offense was #92 in year 1, improved every year, but still only #61 this year. Defense has been between 26 and 40 over the last 3 years. I think they would make the nccat next year, but IU wants to be better than just making it, they want good seeds and deep runs most years.

I guess the only caveat I offer is to be careful about firing him now, as the next coach would know that if you don't hit it big after 4 years, you are out, good seeds and deep runs are required.
Archie’s offensive numbers diminished when he put certain players on the floor. Kyle and Kendall were weak offensive players. Place two of them on the floor at the same time and your offense is much less effective. They both made up for their offensive weaknesses with defense.
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  #83  
Old 03-12-2021, 06:23 PM
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A few more potential names at IU...heck, I suppose a lot of people might want that job.

Hurley at UConn, Oates at Alabama, Musselman at Arkansas, Beard at Texas Tech(former Bobby Knight assistant), Altman at Oregon, Pearl at Auburn, Kruger at Oklahoma

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  #84  
Old 03-12-2021, 06:43 PM
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John Beilein?
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Old 03-12-2021, 06:50 PM
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I would think IU would be all over hiring one of Archie’s assistants. Maybe Tom Ostrom?
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  #86  
Old 03-12-2021, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I would think IU would be all over hiring one of Archie’s assistants. Maybe Tom Ostrom?
You forgot the after your post. Flashbacks to 2017 UD pride !
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Old 03-12-2021, 09:14 PM
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Chicago Tribune writer: Baylor is now a better job than IU, Scott Drew is not leaving

https://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...lfq-story.html
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Old 03-13-2021, 01:38 AM
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I suppose that Archie could see the writing on the wall for this year or next year and try to bail by throwing his hat in the ring for other jobs rather than waiting for the ax to fall/going down with the ship.

I saw on Hoopdirt that Richard Pitino was mentioned in connection with the open NM hc position even though he is currently MN's embattled hc.

Maybe Archie feels that he is in a hopeless situation, and he will not be able to save his skin with a strong performance next year. On the other hand, maybe he feels he can right the ship if given one more year.

This assumes that anybody that is the right fit would be interested in hiring him this year. BG basically did this here with the GT job. Leave town before the posse arrives.

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Old 03-13-2021, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I would think IU would be all over hiring one of Archie’s assistants. Maybe Tom Ostrom?
I am not so sure about Tom; he might work. But the real get for Indiana would be an old Western Kentucky Coach named Ray something. He would be a perfect choice.
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  #90  
Old 03-13-2021, 12:40 PM
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During Archie's first year at IU I attended the Indiana-Seton Hall game at the Rock in Newark. My brother is a Hall grad and has season tickets. Of course I was wearing some of my Flyer attire. Walking to our seats along the outer concourse, an Indiana fan, wearing a pair of those hideous barber pole warm up pants, saw my Flyer attire and raised his hand for me to give him a "high five", which I did. I guess if that were to happen now he probably would want to shoot me. That game took place on Nov. 15, 2017. The Hoosiers lost 84-68.

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  #91  
Old 03-13-2021, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill McPeek View Post
Walking to our seats along the outer concourse, an Indiana fan, wearing a pair of those hideous barber pole warm up pants...
Those pants seem popular with the fan base, I saw a guy wearing them in a hotel once on his way to an IU game.

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Old 03-13-2021, 04:52 PM
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They may be popular with the fan base and have a "cult" following but they are still hideous. I guess to appreciate them one has to be a Hoosier fan!
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Old 03-15-2021, 07:33 AM
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Xavier fans seem to be lighting the torches, grabbing the pitchforks and talking about marching on Travis Steele.

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Old 03-15-2021, 09:41 AM
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Not to mention what is transpiring and being said in Bloomington
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Old 03-15-2021, 11:55 AM
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Dan Patrick just mentioned Archie Miller fired. According to a source which he named.
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Old 03-15-2021, 11:58 AM
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Old 03-15-2021, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ready Action View Post
Dan Patrick just mentioned Archie Miller fired. According to a source which he named.
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It’s confirmed.

So those of you who did not like the AG hire ( and you know who you are), would you prefer Archie back over AG?
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  #98  
Old 03-15-2021, 12:04 PM
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I feel bad for him honestly (as much as I can for a young millionaire)- he had the perfect gig at UD.
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Old 03-15-2021, 12:05 PM
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I thought Archie was going to kill it at Indiana. I thought the school was a great fit to his personality (or lack there of) in comparison to what would have been required at several other higher end programs. I'm amazed just how much he struggled there. I wonder where he will land next. I imagine he'll join somebody's staff as an assistant.
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  #100  
Old 03-15-2021, 12:06 PM
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IU fans got what they wanted. Their next coach better be a grand slam or they will be doing the same in 4 more years.
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