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2008-2009 Game Threads Specific threads dedicated to each home and away game for UD Men's Basketball.

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  #301  
Old 12-10-2008, 10:28 PM
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May i have your attention

Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
poor defense and rebounding, this team is not good enough to overcome that on ANY night. When they don't bring it they will lose.
Those are our keys. When we get beat at them...we look bad.

We DID adjust our weak side defense for the second half. The weak side post player was hanging out in the paint or just outside it in the first half...they scored at least three threes reversing or with excellent passes to the dude in the corner. I'd say a fourth 3 is arguable. Either way...that did not happen in the second half.

Relax, folks. Kids have off days for a variety of reasons. Let's not list the reasons, that could be uncomfortable.

It was an off game at an inopportune time. Does this team have shooting issues? Sure. Do we condemn the program because of this game?

I think not.

And to circle back to post title....CANNONBALL!!!!

Seriously...relax.

Last edited by SoCal Flyer; 12-11-2008 at 03:15 PM..
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  #302  
Old 12-10-2008, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer1407 View Post
Chris Wright is a 50 something % free throw shooter this season, that is frustrating.
Why is it that guys come to UD able to shoot FTs and get worse as they stay in the program? CW & Jimmie Binnie come immediately to mind, and I'm sure there are others (how did KH do in high school?).
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  #303  
Old 12-10-2008, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Why is it that guys come to UD able to shoot FTs and get worse as they stay in the program? CW & Jimmie Binnie come immediately to mind, and I'm sure there are others (how did KH do in high school?).
Well, I've been a fly on the wall in BG's coaching sessions, and he tells the guys to miss on purpose as often as possible. That way it keeps people that don't know basketball interested in the team. Otherwise they wouldn't have a topic to come to udpride to criticise anything. He knows that people that have never played sports, only watched, don't understand what it is like to have to shoot free throws in front of 16,000 hostile fans, instead of 16 fans, like in High School. Answer your question dude?
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  #304  
Old 12-10-2008, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer View Post
This could have really been the game that established the Flyers as a true top 25 team.
After this debacle, we'll be lucky to stay in the Top 50. Just not a good night for the Flyers.
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  #305  
Old 12-10-2008, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by PerrymanFan View Post
These refs hate Kurt...
The call where they gave him the foul when the Creighton guy went over his back was a joke.
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  #306  
Old 12-10-2008, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JimBo View Post
Why would you ever have Lowery and Warren on the court at the same time?
Especially when you're a PG short already!
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  #307  
Old 12-10-2008, 10:49 PM
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Marquette for a day

We played Marquette and we were at our best. They were not expecting the team they played. And they got their asses kicked. Deservedly.

We played Creighton at their best. They knew about us. They were psyched for the game. We were playing our second road game of the season. We were, clearly, not as ready to play as them. And we got our asses kicked. Deservedly.

So...I ask you...does Marquette suck because we stomped them? Do we suck because Creighton stomped us?

If you're capable of answering those questions (accurately) at this point in the season...you should probably be on another website.
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  #308  
Old 12-10-2008, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by UDFlyer23 View Post
Typical UD road game....missing free throws, turning the ball over, and getting out hustled by the other team.
And don't forget "...having no clue on offense..."
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  #309  
Old 12-10-2008, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
And don't forget "...having no clue on offense..."
Where have you come from? I've never seen you here on this board until we lose a game.
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  #310  
Old 12-10-2008, 11:06 PM
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I think Kurt may have been banging the ref's wives prior to the game. It isn't the reason for the L, by any means, but geez, he couldn't catch a break tonight.

This is not a bashing post, coming out of the woodwork post as some of you may say, especially those that never think anything is wrong with this squad.

Case in point tonight. ST is very valuable to this team. When you don't have an outstanding PG, but rather a cool and collective ST (for the most part), and two guys that don't know north from south half the time, you are going to have problems. Without someone like ST to take over the reigns when the other two are somewhere in outer space, we have serious problems. It all starts at the PG position, when they are out of sync, everyone else follows.

You look at any successful PG in the NCAA, they are the generals of the floor. We do not have that in our top two minute gathering PG's. Without a senior leader to take over, in place of the PG, when times get tough, all we have to get by on is pure athleticism.

Athleticism won't cut it all of the time against a team that shoots lights out and played a press that "cooler heads" can beat.

Game control is important, if we don't have it, everything is out of whack.

On the other hand....keep up the ft's LW. If you are going to be getting the minutes you are, they have to be there.
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  #311  
Old 12-10-2008, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
How about Luke?
Luke's only had 9 games. Chip had a year & a half.
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  #312  
Old 12-10-2008, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86 View Post
not having seen game and caught up on thread just now.... would it be fair to say that rob and london don't know where to get CW the ball in the offensive sets???

someone please critique or help
I think you've just hit on one of the most legitimate criticisms of BG's teams, specifically (and not be be overly sarcastic, but...), what offensive sets?

We seem to have some stetches where we execute well on offense, but we have far too many periods where you have to wonder what they're trying to do. Do we have set plays designed to feature CW, MJ, CL, etc., that maximize their strengths? Or, do we just run the same basic offense regardless of who's in the game, hoping that CJ (for example) can finish a play like CW can? Not to demean CJ - he's going to be a good, consistent player someday. But the Utah Jazz ran the pick and roll for years, to take advantage of Malone's & Stockton's strengths. Our guys aren't Malone & Stockton, but they have strengths, too. Where are the plays that allow them to utilize those strengths?

Just wondering...
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  #313  
Old 12-10-2008, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
I think you've just hit on one of the most legitimate criticisms of BG's teams, specifically (and not be be overly sarcastic, but...), what offensive sets?

We seem to have some stetches where we execute well on offense, but we have far too many periods where you have to wonder what they're trying to do. Do we have set plays designed to feature CW, MJ, CL, etc., that maximize their strengths? Or, do we just run the same basic offense regardless of who's in the game, hoping that CJ (for example) can finish a play like CW can? Not to demean CJ - he's going to be a good, consistent player someday. But the Utah Jazz ran the pick and roll for years, to take advantage of Malone's & Stockton's strengths. Our guys aren't Malone & Stockton, but they have strengths, too. Where are the plays that allow them to utilize those strengths?

Just wondering...
His sets are fine, you just have to have the personnel to run them. Michigan State offense without Michigan State players, can cause you problems when you have an off night.

It doesn't matter how much defensive energy and "spark" your PG brings your team. Without someone to efficiently run an offense without making bonehead plays, it doesn't matter how comprehensive or spot on BG's plan is if no one will run it properly.

These guys are fine, but the struggles this team will deal with are obvious. It's how they overcome the struggles. Leadership will play a huge role in this, especially on the road where our toughest games are played year in and year out.

Last edited by shocka43; 12-10-2008 at 11:33 PM..
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  #314  
Old 12-10-2008, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
I think you've just hit on one of the most legitimate criticisms of BG's teams, specifically (and not be be overly sarcastic, but...), what offensive sets?

We seem to have some stetches where we execute well on offense, but we have far too many periods where you have to wonder what they're trying to do. Do we have set plays designed to feature CW, MJ, CL, etc., that maximize their strengths? Or, do we just run the same basic offense regardless of who's in the game, hoping that CJ (for example) can finish a play like CW can? Not to demean CJ - he's going to be a good, consistent player someday. But the Utah Jazz ran the pick and roll for years, to take advantage of Malone's & Stockton's strengths. Our guys aren't Malone & Stockton, but they have strengths, too. Where are the plays that allow them to utilize those strengths?

Just wondering...
Did you ever stop to think that Malone was playing hurt tonight? Or that Stockton was in Indianapolis at a funeral? DUH
Where have you come from?
Where were you last week? On a X board?
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  #315  
Old 12-11-2008, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by swish61 View Post
Well, I've been a fly on the wall in BG's coaching sessions, and he tells the guys to miss on purpose as often as possible. That way it keeps people that don't know basketball interested in the team. Otherwise they wouldn't have a topic to come to udpride to criticise anything. He knows that people that have never played sports, only watched, don't understand what it is like to have to shoot free throws in front of 16,000 hostile fans, instead of 16 fans, like in High School. Answer your question dude?
Answer me this, dude. Jimmie Binnie's career FT shooting stats:
2004-05 81.0%
2005-06 76.9%
2006-07 66.7%
2007-08 54.1%

And, for that matter, Andres Sandoval's stats for the 2 years he was a Flyer:
2006-07 68.4%
2007-08 58.4%

And, yes, BRob got a little better in the 4 years he was here, but that's only 1 out of 3 of last year's seniors. The other 2 got decidedly worse. My point is, shouldn't a player get better at this after 4 years of college ball?

Just wondering. Dude.
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  #316  
Old 12-11-2008, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Do we have set plays designed to feature CW, MJ, CL, etc., that maximize their strengths? Or, do we just run the same basic offense regardless of who's in the game,
Just wondering...
If this is a serious question, it certainly explains the quality of your posts.

Set plays work in CYO and junior high. Once you get to high school, you need an offensive scheme (motion offense, etc...) that allows the team to move the ball and exploit weaknesses.

Other than in-bounds plays, you will rarely see a set play unless it's an alley-oop. Players at this level are so talented that you just can't set a double pick at the top of the key and clear out like you did at recess.
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  #317  
Old 12-11-2008, 09:32 AM
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c'mon rollo...thats over the top. first, we do have "set plays"--what about the one where we have our bigs start at the high posts and charles gets the ball on the wing and looks for kurt who is rolling down the lane for a layup/good position for a post up. or the fake ball screen slip to the goal.

but, thats not the point. cant "set plays" mean exactly what you described? offenses that exploit strengths and weaknesses and get the ball to your best players in a position to make something happen? if they can, i agree we are a little lacking in that regard.

remember the chris wright dunk over othello hunter last year. he got the ball at the elbow and created from there--if we could get him the ball there 5-10 times a game, he would do some real damage. but i find he has to start his drives from the three point line too often.
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  #318  
Old 12-11-2008, 09:40 AM
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Let me claify:

A set play is one that is designed for one, maybe two, things to happen. Alley-oops, isolation for one-on-one etc.

If the offense has numerous options or is somewhat choreographed (pass, pick away, switch, reverse, pass, pick-away, switch, reverse, etc...), then it's an offensive set, even though the same player - Charles Little in this case -may do the same thing off of it numerous times a game thus, making it appear to be a set play.
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  #319  
Old 12-11-2008, 09:43 AM
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what im saying is that you are playing with semantics. whether it is an offensive set or a set play, it doesnt get our best players in positions where they can play to their strengths and do damage.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by daytonflyers View Post
whether it is an offensive set or a set play, it doesnt get our best players in positions where they can play to their strengths and do damage.
Last night that was absolutely, 100% true.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Answer me this, dude. Jimmie Binnie's career FT shooting stats:
2004-05 81.0%
2005-06 76.9%
2006-07 66.7%
2007-08 54.1%

And, for that matter, Andres Sandoval's stats for the 2 years he was a Flyer:
2006-07 68.4%
2007-08 58.4%

And, yes, BRob got a little better in the 4 years he was here, but that's only 1 out of 3 of last year's seniors. The other 2 got decidedly worse. My point is, shouldn't a player get better at this after 4 years of college ball?

Just wondering. Dude.
You conveniently pull up stats for two guys from last year. How bout fast forwarding to this year, and check out Charles and London's stats, and post them here in this thread like you did with Binnie and Sandoval?
Please show me how they are shooting free throws compared to their last couple years.
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  #322  
Old 12-13-2008, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Last night that was absolutely, 100% true.
That was my main point. We see enough times when the guys play well, so we know they each have strengths. But we also see enough times when the guys on the court don't seem to be in position to use those strengths, regardless of whether you call it "plays" or "sets".
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Old 12-13-2008, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by swish61 View Post
You conveniently pull up stats for two guys from last year. How bout fast forwarding to this year, and check out Charles and London's stats, and post them here in this thread like you did with Binnie and Sandoval?
Please show me how they are shooting free throws compared to their last couple years.
Fair enough.

Charles:
2005-06 46.2%
2006-07 54.1%
2007-08 45.2%
2008-09 73.7%

London:
2006-07 54.8%
2007-08 51.5%
2008-09 60.0%

So Charles is much improved, and London slightly so, but with a much better stroke.

I'm sure BG pushes FTs in practice, but each player can (and must) work on that on his own. It all comes down to each guy taking it seriously enough that he develops a good stroke and practices it until he can make 95 of 100 by himself in the gym (which, hopefully, can translate into at least 70 of 100 with 12,000 screaming fans in the stands).
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  #324  
Old 12-13-2008, 11:21 AM
swish61 swish61 is offline
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Hey T-Bone. Glad you're back, and thanks for posting the stats.
CL is doing great. He has completely redefined himself at the line. His mechanics have completely changed for the better, and therefore driven up his stats. I don't know if I've ever seen anybody improve like that over the course of a summer.
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  #325  
Old 12-13-2008, 12:17 PM
IAFlyer IAFlyer is offline
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post

I'm sure BG pushes FTs in practice, but each player can (and must) work on that on his own. It all comes down to each guy taking it seriously enough that he develops a good stroke and practices it until he can make 95 of 100 by himself in the gym (which, hopefully, can translate into at least 70 of 100 with 12,000 screaming fans in the stands).
And you know that they are not practicing on their own, how?
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