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View Poll Results: The Golden Roller Coaster Player of the Game is...
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Cunningham 6/6 FG and 9/10 FT and 21 pts 3 rbs
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87 |
88.78% |
Mikesell 10/3/3 assists
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0% |
Toppin 18/12/3 assists
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8 |
8.16% |
JDavis 15/4
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0% |
Crutcher 8/4/4
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0 |
0% |
AG making all the right moves
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2 |
2.04% |
The Refs!
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1 |
1.02% |
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02-20-2019, 06:12 AM
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Golden Roller Coaster Award - at Davidson
This season has been like a childhood trip to Kings Island. One minute I'm on the bumpy Beast, the next it's an easy ride on the Scooby-Doo...the VCU game was the Racer (forward) while last night was the Racer (backward).
Anyway, the park closed just in time for us to secure a 1-point win, one that was much needed in a number of ways! So grab a corn dog and waffle cakes, and have a safe drive home. In the mean time, vote for the Golden Award!
Go Flyers!
My Team!!
King Rollo the Whiplashed...OUT!
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02-20-2019, 07:00 AM
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My player of the game, Rita! I have no idea how many rosaries that woman did up in heaven last night! She probably took advantage of her one call a year she gets directly to the Blessed mother!
Cunningham got my terrestrial vote fwiw.
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02-20-2019, 07:58 AM
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Cunningham... if he could make free throws like he did last night we'd have 2-3 more wins. On top of that he looked like his old self.
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02-20-2019, 08:06 AM
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Why is nobody voting for the refs??? If they can be blamed for a 1-point home loss to VCU, can't we give them credit for a 1-point road win?? We shot more FTs than Davidson...doesn't that count for something??
Also, let's not forget about Sir Trey's efforts and miraculous recovery! Regardless of his 0/3 shooting, his minutes meant that Policelli stayed on the bench! When you win by 1, every little advantage helps!
Kidding aside, JDavis and Cunningham owned the first half. Toppin played consistent throughout and Mikesell is proving to be a much better defender than anyone could have expected.
But Cunningham's 9/10 FTs made up for his 3 measly rebounds and for that, he earned the King's golden vote!
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02-20-2019, 08:37 AM
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I saw both games in person. There was a significant difference in officiating.
Davidson is nowhere nearly as physical as VCU.
The fouls called last night were on ball contact fouls that were easy to call and obvious. In the VCU game, the calls that were not made off ball fouls of pushing, grabbing, such as around the waist, shoving etc. I've played in the post, so I know forearms and jockeying for position is part of the game. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the excessive contact all over the court. At one point against VCU, Mikesell threw a player to the court (off the ball) after the players wrapped around him. Mikesell then got open and scored. No call but two fouls occurred.
In the first half against Davidson, UD took away the three point line. UD played good defense and moved their feet. Davidson had very few open looks from beyond the arc. In the second half, Davidson drove to the basket and created a lot of and ones. UD did not move their feet well in the second half on defense. UD meanwhile punched it inside to Obi and Josh who were fouled quite often shooting near the rim.
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02-20-2019, 08:45 AM
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If I could have split my vote, I’d have split it between both of our bigs. Cunningham finally had a big game offensively (dare I say, YUGE), and Toppin was a beast on the boards. Between them, they fixed 2 of the ills (FT shooting and rebounding) that have cost us at least a couple of games this season, in a game where we needed every last advantage. But having to pick only 1 player, I picked Josh. Only 1 missed shot all night, and he had the game-winning FT.
Excellent win, Gentlemen! Now, it’s time to get our lunch money back, on our turf!
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02-20-2019, 09:32 AM
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I voted for Josh. Gave him the goat last game, but have to give credit where credit is due. He played great on both ends last night. He has obviously worked on making quicker decisions in the post which helped last night. I don't worry as much about only three rebounds. I'm sure he didn't get some he should have gotten, just like everybody else, but if you watch there were many rebounds that other players, namely Obi and Ryan, got that were because of Josh's box outs.
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02-20-2019, 09:42 AM
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Jordan wasn't good enough to edge out the bigs for top recognition. But his 3pt shots were really needed and had a degree-of-difficulty near 8+. He deserves at least the consolation prize of "Miss Congeniality".
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02-20-2019, 09:55 AM
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I prefer Miss March...as in Madness!
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02-20-2019, 10:06 AM
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Remember King, these refs are not on your pro bono volunteer level of compensation in which your local girls basketball pays. A semi professional who receives a shower, 2-4 comp event tickets, a chance to exercise, participate in something they love, and "gets" $1,000 per two-hour gig, probably is not in-line for excessive praise. Unless the job description is constantly being reworded on a weekly or game to game basis; then they aren't getting paid to be wrong about anything ever under any circumstances. Even if we know that humans make mistakes, and that all refs are human. I don't break my arm congratulating folks for performing a task they are being handsomely compensated for. Otherwise, the employee gets to play boss and dictate when and how they do their job.
For example, Gazoo thinks Anthony Grant is in a job training program. However, I reject that notion! That doesn't mean I am unreasonable, but on the merits, Grant is not a new or inexperienced head coach. And neither are division one officials unpaid novices. In other words, do your job, and do it very well; or I reserve the right to appropriately critique your performance.
I voted for Cunningham, and like I posted after the VCU loss, Cunningham should have 10-20 points every game, and when he doesn't, it's all most always a coaching related issue.
We know what Cunningham can do; and Toppin is incredible; but Mikesell is the Batman of the team. He has some kind of answer to every situation, and he is doing virtually every kind of skill and stat for this Flyers team.
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02-20-2019, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Beatty Town Coach
For example, Gazoo thinks Anthony Grant is in a job training program. However, I reject that notion! That doesn't mean I am unreasonable, but on the merits, Grant is not a new or inexperienced head coach. And neither are division one officials unpaid novices. In other words, do your job, and do it very well; or I reserve the right to appropriately critique your performance.
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Because I said on another thread that in 10 years he'll be older and wiser? Where did I imply in any way that AG is in a job training program?
Who are you, Jim Accosta?? I'll be older and wiser 10 years from now too, that doesn't mean (in and of itself) that I'm young and foolish now.
I'm on the record as saying that I thought, at the time of hire, AG's hire was not a good one, and it appears I'm going to be in the Crow Sandwich Club. Time will tell.
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02-20-2019, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan
I saw both games in person. There was a significant difference in officiating.
Davidson is nowhere nearly as physical as VCU.
The fouls called last night were on ball contact fouls that were easy to call and obvious. In the VCU game, the calls that were not made off ball fouls of pushing, grabbing, such as around the waist, shoving etc. I've played in the post, so I know forearms and jockeying for position is part of the game. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the excessive contact all over the court. At one point against VCU, Mikesell threw a player to the court (off the ball) after the players wrapped around him. Mikesell then got open and scored. No call but two fouls occurred.
In the first half against Davidson, UD took away the three point line. UD played good defense and moved their feet. Davidson had very few open looks from beyond the arc. In the second half, Davidson drove to the basket and created a lot of and ones. UD did not move their feet well in the second half on defense. UD meanwhile punched it inside to Obi and Josh who were fouled quite often shooting near the rim.
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I appreciate the "in-person" view of the officiating, and agree with the way the VCU game was called (probably many of us were there in person). What has always bothered me about Davidson, and maybe I should give credit to McKillop, is the number of blatant moving screens and embellishing contact or faking contact that never occurred when simply shooting the basketball, whether it's a drive to the basket or off the dribble, off of a screen...whatever. And the officials buy it more often than not.
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02-20-2019, 10:56 AM
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When it comes to officials, they are human can miss some calls. I would agree that they miss less calls than the average fan. One fan for Davidson last night screamed that Obi set a moving pick on every high pick. It was not called once. I sided with the refs.
Fans want all calls to go for their team. I try to be objective. UD got gift calls in the second half against VCU. We think there was at least one makeup call last night for which we received.
My big objection in the VCU game was the off ball lack of calls that benefited a team with a deeper bench in the first half. The VCU coach designed a deliberate game plan based upon that assumption.
Last night's officiating was consistent and thus pretty good in my mind. It should not have been in the poll.
I will say that UD should show videos of the last play of each game in which UD players were hit in the head violently by defender that got nowhere near the ball. I think each play could have been flagrant. Josh was hit in the neck and head.
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02-20-2019, 11:04 AM
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I commented to the Queen that Obi was moving way too much on his high picks and the refs will call it if he doesn't slow down...late in the game, he did get called for the moving pick and it was the right call.
Believe it or not, some calls are 'situational'. Up 15 late in a game, a lot of contact will be ignored. When UD was up 12-19, Obi got away with these moving picks. Once the lead was cut to low single digits, the refs will adjust and pay more attention to the details...like staying still on a pick or reaching across someone's body, etc... It's naïve and silly NOT to realize this and downright stupid not to adjust. Close game...don't do anything close to being stupid!!!! OBI!! I'm talking to you.
King Rollo the Realistic...OUT!
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02-20-2019, 11:13 AM
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If you go Jablonski's video highlights of the last few minutes of the game, I cannot see any way in he!! that last foul is not called flagrant. Oh yeah, except for "situational officiating". And Jabo was sitting at the end of the court where the foul occurred. Not fuzz on that peach in my opinion.
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02-20-2019, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan
It was not called once.
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Originally Posted by rollo
I commented to the Queen that Obi was moving way too much on his high picks and the refs will call it if he doesn't slow down...late in the game, he did get called for the moving pick and it was the right call.
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The time Obi was called for a moving screen was a horsesh** call. I watched it on replay multiple times and still have the video. They called him for "throwing an elbow" according to the commentators. He was set fully, the guy ran into him, and promptly got shot out of the cannon Obi has mounted to his uniform. Upon replay you can clearly see that Obi didn't stick out his arm more than an inch from his body.
The best part was: on the next trip down the floor, Obi's body moved in exactly the same motion at the same spot on the floor and since the Davidson defender avoided the Mario Cart blue shell, no foul called.
Expecting Obi to have a person run into him at high speed and not be able to move his feet or arms to maintain his balance means that every player on every pick will by physics fall on the ground. There was nothing Obi did that was illegal (on the one where he was called).
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02-20-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar
If you go Jablonski's video highlights of the last few minutes of the game, I cannot see any way in he!! that last foul is not called flagrant. Oh yeah, except for "situational officiating". And Jabo was sitting at the end of the court where the foul occurred. Not fuzz on that peach in my opinion.
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Someone who has a better knowledge of the flagrant rules can correct me (and I'm sure will), but to me the fact that the first contact on the last foul of the game was with the ball/arms, even though there was then upper body contact, was the deciding factor in it being a common foul. I know there is reference in the rule to "excessive contact" above the shoulders, but I didn't see it on that play.
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02-20-2019, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98
Someone who has a better knowledge of the flagrant rules can correct me (and I'm sure will), but to me the fact that the first contact on the last foul of the game was with the ball/arms, even though there was then upper body contact, was the deciding factor in it being a common foul. I know there is reference in the rule to "excessive contact" above the shoulders, but I didn't see it on that play.
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The contact and call could have gone and been justifiable in either case. Because it was a Davidson player, most around here would say it should have been flagrant. Had it been a UD player, most would have said not-so-fast! I saw it from both sides last night and wouldn't have called it flagrant, but would have supported it had the refs decided to elevate the call.
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02-20-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo
The contact and call could have gone and been justifiable in either case. Because it was a Davidson player, most around here would say it should have been flagrant. Had it been a UD player, most would have said not-so-fast! I saw it from both sides last night and wouldn't have called it flagrant, but would have supported it had the refs decided to elevate the call.
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Ref speak!
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02-20-2019, 02:12 PM
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Davidson couldn't stop either Obi or Josh inside but I give my vote to Cunningham for his effort even though he has gotten much criticism lately. He sealed the victory when he made his last free throw to go 9 out of 10 with 2 seconds remaining!
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02-20-2019, 02:14 PM
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I felt like that while it was within the definition of a flagrant foul, I did not sense intent other than a good, hard foul that would prevent the basket. I'm inclined to say not flagrant.
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02-20-2019, 03:02 PM
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[QUOTE=sheg;575901]I felt like that while it was within the definition of a flagrant foul, I did not sense intent other than a good, hard foul that would prevent the basket. I'm inclined to say not flagrant.[/QUOTE
After all they said he didn't hit him in the head very hard....
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02-20-2019, 03:31 PM
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Here is the photo of the foul on Josh.
https://twitter.com/DavidPJablonski/...963712/photo/1
This still photo is the end of the foul. The defender got a lot of head and neck and was nowhere close to the ball. The officials went to the monitor to review for a flagrant or to check the time on the clock. Not sure which, but they ruled it was not flagrant. OK.
If it was a Dayton player committing the foul, I would have called it flagrant too and said UD got away with one if it was not called.
In some bizarre way, not calling flagrant would have helped Josh concentrate better. A flagrant would have given UD the ball with 2.2 seconds left even if he missed both. Might have been a bad psychological cushion for him. I think his girlfriend was the most relieved person in the building when he hit the second shot.
A former Big 10 referee told me that they ruined the game because they let the rough play get out of hand. This game was physical, but over the top until this last play. It was a good game.
I've seen two hard takedown at the end of the last two games. Obi went down so hard against VCU, I worried that he might have had a concussion. Basketball is a physical game, but the penalty for blows to the head with no real attempt to block the shot might deserve harsher penalties.
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02-20-2019, 03:37 PM
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Still pictures are tough to take at face value sometimes. I watched the play over and over again on DVR and in slow motion and I don't think it warranted a flagrant foul. Just my .02 cents.
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02-20-2019, 03:53 PM
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Voted Josh, barely over Obi. Maybe because the old Josh showed up, other than 3 rebounds against a small team. Saw the game in person and saw a Josh with no limp in his left leg. He moved and jumped well, and helped some on defense.
I love how Obi is not only guarding his guy, but always aware of the rest of the court, and sprints over to help. He is sometimes late, but will learn to be on time. Unlike our big last year, Obi has learned to jump and not foul.
Thought there was some missed calls that went both ways, as did the Davidson fans around me. Well played and reffed game. The guy next to me asked after a missed jostle on a UD player, how can the ref miss that. I said that sometimes you get blocked. Those are huge guys close together and sometimes your view is obstructed.
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02-20-2019, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer
Still pictures are tough to take at face value sometimes. I watched the play over and over again on DVR and in slow motion and I don't think it warranted a flagrant foul. Just my .02 cents.
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I didn’t see it as flagrant either, but it was clearly intentional and just short of a mugging. He did appear to make a play on the ball before bear-hugging Josh.
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02-20-2019, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly
I didn’t see it as flagrant either, but it was clearly intentional and just short of a mugging. He did appear to make a play on the ball before bear-hugging Josh.
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Agreed but aren't fouls at the end of a game when a team is behind also intentional? I see many of those that aren't even plays on the ball.
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02-20-2019, 04:06 PM
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If the ref judges, you are not going for the ball and just grabbing or hitting the offensive player, it is flagrant, so that was probably flagrant. Three seconds to go, probably not getting that call.
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02-20-2019, 06:06 PM
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I use to call those "Louisville Fouls", but now I have to go "Denny Crum/Louisville" fouls (for more specificity). Make sure there's not a 3-pt play.
I thought it was a "hard" but not "flagrant" foul and he was going for the ball (while getting the body).
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02-20-2019, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly
I didn’t see it as flagrant either, but it was clearly intentional and just short of a mugging. He did appear to make a play on the ball before bear-hugging Josh.
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It's a flagrant foul when the foul is a felony. This one didn't meet the criteria. Although I hate for them to call it a "Common foul". That's a stretch.
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02-20-2019, 07:35 PM
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Lets just be thankful Crutcher made a great play to drive the ball and find Josh completely wide open underneath. Josh was going to finish that and win the game. Grady had no choice but to clobber him as he was never going to block/stop him from finishing due to size. The sequence itself won the game. Josh just had to finish the job at the line. Good play w/o calling a timeout. Fans have been wanting a winning play at the end all year -- they got one.
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02-20-2019, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyerferd
My player of the game, Rita! I have no idea how many rosaries that woman did up in heaven last night! She probably took advantage of her one call a year she gets directly to the Blessed mother!
Cunningham got my terrestrial vote fwiw.
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I shared this with Rita's daughters (who are season tix holders). There is appreciation that their mom is remembered.
And I agree, the rosaries were warm with many prayers.
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02-20-2019, 09:35 PM
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If the flyers don’t abandon their work inside out strategy in the final eight minutes, doubt that there would be any talk of the refs.
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02-20-2019, 09:47 PM
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Dayton averages 13.9 fouls per game, Davidson averages 16.1, and VCU averages 20.6
Dayton 13 fouls, VCU 17 fouls. VCU almost 4 fouls less than their average.
Dayton 19 fouls, Davisson 20 fouls. Dayton 5 more fouls than average and Davidson 4.
Ideally we would have swapped referee assigments. Both were consistent, but VCU > Dayton > Davidson in physicality. How the refs call a game even if consistent materially matters. Have the Davidson refs in both VCU games and Dayfon wins both.
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