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  #101  
Old 02-06-2024, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
How is being ranked important for the tournament? It is not a metric considered by the committee? I would concede that if you are in the top 25 you probably are getting a bid but it isn't because you are ranked.
Being ranked is all about exposure.... the number of news outlets covering Dayton games with an actual write-up and box score goes up exponentially.

Of course, most of these news outlets are just regurgitating the Dayton or ESPN article.

It's quite interesting, as I have a Google news alert setup for "dayton flyers" and the # of alerts have been crazy after we got into the top25 (thank goodness they group them into single emails).
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  #102  
Old 02-06-2024, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel View Post
Being ranked is all about exposure.... the number of news outlets covering Dayton games with an actual write-up and box score goes up exponentially.

Of course, most of these news outlets are just regurgitating the Dayton or ESPN article.

It's quite interesting, as I have a Google news alert setup for "dayton flyers" and the # of alerts have been crazy after we got into the top25 (thank goodness they group them into single emails).
Understood and agreed, how is that important for being selected by the tournament selection committee?
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  #103  
Old 02-06-2024, 02:39 PM
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It may not directly affect their seeding/NCAA bid this season, but the exposure could impact future seeding/NCAA bid. DaRon stated how he enjoyed watching Obi and envisioned himself being developed along a similar path. Perhaps the next Obi/DaRon is sitting out their in HS (or in today's world some campus dorm room) right now watching DaRon highlights on ESPN that are only showing up because they are ranked and thinking, you know, i want to be like that cat, maybe I'll look closer at playing basketball at UD.


anyhoo, the ranking is good for the program and certainly can't hurt their seeding to be ranked highly.
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  #104  
Old 02-06-2024, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
It may not directly affect their seeding/NCAA bid this season, but the exposure could impact future seeding/NCAA bid. DaRon stated how he enjoyed watching Obi and envisioned himself being developed along a similar path. Perhaps the next Obi/DaRon is sitting out their in HS (or in today's world some campus dorm room) right now watching DaRon highlights on ESPN that are only showing up because they are ranked and thinking, you know, i want to be like that cat, maybe I'll look closer at playing basketball at UD.


anyhoo, the ranking is good for the program and certainly can't hurt their seeding to be ranked highly.
That may be the most disingenuous thing I have read this month, (month is still early).

By that same logic, more NIL money also effects tournament selection and seeding, (probably a much larger effect actually), so all you people who complain about NIL but love to go to the tourney better just accept it and start contributing or else you are the reason we don't go to the NCAA tournament, you horrible, horrible UD hating people.
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  #105  
Old 02-06-2024, 04:04 PM
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Being Ranked = Greater Exposure. Greater Exposure = Better Recruits. These kids have egos - do they want to tell their friends and family they are going to a school they never heard of or one that is on the ticker scroll all season long.

And just remember AG has had this team in the top 25 - 22 weeks+ vs just 6 weeks for Archie's teams. Which I think is part of why some are downplaying the importance of being ranked.
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  #106  
Old 02-06-2024, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by podcast411 View Post
Being Ranked = Greater Exposure. Greater Exposure = Better Recruits. These kids have egos - do they want to tell their friends and family they are going to a school they never heard of or one that is on the ticker scroll all season long.

And just remember AG has had this team in the top 25 - 22 weeks+ vs just 6 weeks for Archie's teams. Which I think is part of why some are downplaying the importance of being ranked.

As somebody who runs game watches in Columbus, there is a direct correlation between us having a number by our name, and how many people come to or ask for game watches. I have a pretty good 10 year sample size of this.
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  #107  
Old 02-06-2024, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by podcast411 View Post
Being Ranked = Greater Exposure. Greater Exposure = Better Recruits. These kids have egos - do they want to tell their friends and family they are going to a school they never heard of or one that is on the ticker scroll all season long.

And just remember AG has had this team in the top 25 - 22 weeks+ vs just 6 weeks for Archie's teams. Which I think is part of why some are downplaying the importance of being ranked.
I have no interest in a AM vs AG debate. And I'm not suggesting you're inciting one. People can debate/critique all they want re: in game coaching, recruiting, style/pace of play.

I'm interested in winning, first and foremost. I'm interested in a team, players and staff that represent the University in a positive manner. Gravy would be a culture that is ELITE and sustainable for the foreseeable future.

I think AG is building a culture that is unique and desirable for ELITE players and recruits. And since he's an alum, I think it's likely he sticks at UD for the extended future (vs looking for the P6 job). My opinion is that AG's ceiling is higher than what we experienced with AM. 2024 and 2020 seem to support that. But it's certainly possible that AG's floor is a littler lower than AM's. We'll see. I'd like to see a little more consistency from the AG tenure moving forward.
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  #108  
Old 02-06-2024, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
That may be the most disingenuous thing I have read this month, (month is still early).

By that same logic, more NIL money also effects tournament selection and seeding, (probably a much larger effect actually), so all you people who complain about NIL but love to go to the tourney better just accept it and start contributing or else you are the reason we don't go to the NCAA tournament, you horrible, horrible UD hating people.

Disingenuous? I believe I was being completely genuous (though I don't think that is an actual word). Shall I say I was being completely honest that today's ranking could well impact future teams' success? As I pointed out the example of DaRon and how UD & Obi's success influenced his decision to come to UD.


As far as NIL, I don't completely love the way its unfolded, it would be foolish to think the proper use of NIL can't transform and elevate any team in the country.


Frankly, it was a throw away argument to tell the tale of the 2019-20 success directly played a part in obtaining the services for UD's best current player and hope that can carry forward again down the road. I'm not even sure what you are arguing that point for, its not even arguable.


Here is a simple and sincere statement, if you don't care or like talking about UD's ranking in college basketball, don't click on the topic that is clearly labeled to discuss such matters. Let us horrible UD hating people have fun with it.
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  #109  
Old 02-06-2024, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Medford View Post
Disingenuous? I believe I was being completely genuous (though I don't think that is an actual word). Shall I say I was being completely honest that today's ranking could well impact future teams' success? As I pointed out the example of DaRon and how UD & Obi's success influenced his decision to come to UD.


As far as NIL, I don't completely love the way its unfolded, it would be foolish to think the proper use of NIL can't transform and elevate any team in the country.


Frankly, it was a throw away argument to tell the tale of the 2019-20 success directly played a part in obtaining the services for UD's best current player and hope that can carry forward again down the road. I'm not even sure what you are arguing that point for, its not even arguable.


Here is a simple and sincere statement, if you don't care or like talking about UD's ranking in college basketball, don't click on the topic that is clearly labeled to discuss such matters. Let us horrible UD hating people have fun with it.
First of all, this is a discussion board. Don't tell people who don't agree with you to leave or not click. That is the whole point. I am fine talking about UD's ranking unless it gets spun into something it is not. Your original comment was that rankings are important for the NCAA tournament and recruiting. The recruiting part I agree with you, to me that is the exposure argument, and I even admitted I was wrong a couple weeks ago when everyone was anxiously awaiting our debut, and I said the rankings mean nothing, I conceded that people were correct on the exposure part and I was wrong.

But the fact of the matter is, it has absolutely not one thing to with selection or seeding in the tourney. That is a stone cold objective fact. From there you spun it into well maybe not directly, but it could get us better players and that might get us in or a better seed in subsequent years. That, to me is a very disingenuous argument because it fundamentally changes the original premise, which is why I threw out the absurd statement about people who don't support NIL holding UD back, which is essentially the same argument.

If you were some clown who posted stupid stuff on here all the time, I probably would not have even responded but I generally think your posts are well thought out and inciteful, which is why I engaged. I now see that was a mistake as the whole conversation has evolved into "exposure" which was never the point. I am done, just wanted to explain myself.

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  #110  
Old 02-07-2024, 08:58 PM
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How did South Carolina leap frog us in AP poll? They deserved to be ranked but to go right to #15? We're ahead of them in just about every metric and they have a Quad 3 blemish that we don't. Just seems like some more big conference bias creeping in.
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  #111  
Old 02-07-2024, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SC_Flyer View Post
How did South Carolina leap frog us in AP poll? They deserved to be ranked but to go right to #15? We're ahead of them in just about every metric and they have a Quad 3 blemish that we don't. Just seems like some more big conference bias creeping in.
I totally disagree that that big conference bias is creeping in. Itís sitting itís fat a$$ in the middle of the room. . . .
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  #112  
Old 02-08-2024, 02:20 PM
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https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/stat...29679770230867

That Lunardi guy has us #16
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  #113  
Old 02-08-2024, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SC_Flyer View Post
How did South Carolina leap frog us in AP poll? They deserved to be ranked but to go right to #15? We're ahead of them in just about every metric and they have a Quad 3 blemish that we don't. Just seems like some more big conference bias creeping in.
I went into this in a similar post above. Their non-con SOS is horrendous. Same amount of Q1 wins but we are 22 spots better in Ken Pom and 27 spots better in the NET.

Completely agree that they should be ranked, but to jump all the way to #15 and ahead of UD is nonsense.
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  #114  
Old 02-08-2024, 03:55 PM
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All is not bleak. Itís cool to see 6 non-p5+1 schools in the top 25 of the NET. I think thatís 11 conferences with a top 25 team. Thereís far better opportunity for a non power conference team to compete in basketball than football.
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  #115  
Old 02-10-2024, 11:44 AM
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Miniminal damage from VCU. Drop two in the NET and one in the 25@1.
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  #116  
Old 02-10-2024, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Miniminal damage from VCU. Drop two in the NET and one in the 25@1.
Also elevated VCU to 75, making this a quad one loss. We still have no quad 2, 3 or 4 losses, which is good. Weíre one of only five schools in the NET top 20 whose only losses are quad 1.
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  #117  
Old 02-10-2024, 12:11 PM
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Let's not act like losing this game had zero negative impact. Again, the NET, rankings, and all that other mumbo jumbo don't matter. Torvik and bracket matrix are what matters, and Torvik dropped us from a 4 seed to a 5 seed after the VCU loss.
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  #118  
Old 02-10-2024, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Let's not act like losing this game had zero negative impact. Again, the NET, rankings, and all that other mumbo jumbo don't matter. Torvik and bracket matrix are what matters, and Torvik dropped us from a 4 seed to a 5 seed after the VCU loss.
I didn't say no damage, I said minimial.
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  #119  
Old 02-10-2024, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Let's not act like losing this game had zero negative impact. Again, the NET, rankings, and all that other mumbo jumbo don't matter. Torvik and bracket matrix are what matters, and Torvik dropped us from a 4 seed to a 5 seed after the VCU loss.
Do you think the selection committee uses Torvik? They don’t. It’s not on the team sheets. The NET, KenPom,KPI and BPI are the main metrics used by the committee. There has been many discussions regarding this. There was Very little movement after yesterday’s game and probably moved the Flyers down 1 on the overall seed list. In others words, if they were 16 overall (ie, the last 4 seed) they are probably 17 (the first 5 seed). Again, the committee will make these decisions, but let’s not act as though this one game had a major effect on seeding.
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  #120  
Old 02-10-2024, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
Miniminal damage from VCU. Drop two in the NET and one in the 25@1.
As has been stated one Q1 loss by 2 points on an opponentís court will have little change. Such as San Diego St losing at Nevada last night. Their numbers also changed very little and had minimal effect.
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  #121  
Old 02-10-2024, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Do you think the selection committee uses Torvik? They don’t. It’s not on the team sheets. The NET, KenPom,KPI and BPI are the main metrics used by the committee. There has been many discussions regarding this. There was Very little movement after yesterday’s game and probably moved the Flyers down 1 on the overall seed list. In others words, if they were 16 overall (ie, the last 4 seed) they are probably 17 (the first 5 seed). Again, the committee will make these decisions, but let’s not act as though this one game had a major effect on seeding.
I think Torvik has a very good feel for the current state of things. We are almost a 6 seed at this point. Bracket matrix after the next update I bet will also have us at a 5/6 seed now.

And there is little opportunity to move up, a 5 seed is likely our ceiling now. I suppose if we won out and won the A10t we might get a 4.
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  #122  
Old 02-10-2024, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
I think Torvik has a very good feel for the current state of things. We are almost a 6 seed at this point. Bracket matrix after the next update I bet will also have us at a 5/6 seed now.

And there is little opportunity to move up, a 5 seed is likely our ceiling now. I suppose if we won out and won the A10t we might get a 4.
Totally agree. Win out and you are 29-4 and riding a 10 game win streak and a conference tournament championship. That's a pretty solid 4 seed. You have to assume others around you will have some losses along the way that will help us out.
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  #123  
Old 02-11-2024, 02:00 PM
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https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/stat...66687807766983

Lunardi still has us on the 4 line
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  #124  
Old 02-11-2024, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/stat...66687807766983

Lunardi still has us on the 4 line
Not surprising. Weíre probably a low 4 or high 5 seed right now. Our ceiling is probably a 3 seed if we win out.
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Old 02-11-2024, 03:29 PM
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Torvik dropped us down to a 6 seed today. We lost 2 seed lines from just one loss.
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Old 02-11-2024, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Torvik dropped us down to a 6 seed today. We lost 2 seed lines from just one loss.
Oh woe is us
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  #127  
Old 02-11-2024, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Torvik dropped us down to a 6 seed today. We lost 2 seed lines from just one loss.
Who cares what Torvik does. I can assure you that you don’t drop 7 places on the seed line with one Q1 loss by 2 points.
All other reputable sites have maybe one place drop.
And your vaunted bracket matrix, which you put so much credence in, has the Flyers as the last 4 seed. In line with most who follow this stuff. http://www.bracketmatrix.com/

Last edited by TA111; 02-11-2024 at 05:40 PM..
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Old 02-11-2024, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Totally agree. Win out and you are 29-4 and riding a 10 game win streak and a conference tournament championship. That's a pretty solid 4 seed. You have to assume others around you will have some losses along the way that will help us out.
Several on this board have been predicting weíd win out for weeks. The hubris !
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Old 02-11-2024, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Several on this board have been predicting weíd win out for weeks. The hubris !
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My glass is half full . . .
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  #130  
Old 02-12-2024, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Who cares what Torvik does. I can assure you that you don’t drop 7 places on the seed line with one Q1 loss by 2 points.
All other reputable sites have maybe one place drop.
And your vaunted bracket matrix, which you put so much credence in, has the Flyers as the last 4 seed. In line with most who follow this stuff. http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
Fair enough, I noticed that Torvik does more frequent updates. Let's see what bracketmatrix.com is saying after the next update, I predict that we will be a 5 or worse. The majority of the brackets on bracketmatrix.com have not been updated since the VCU loss. Some of those brackets haven't been updated since Feb 4, today is Feb 12. That site will do more frequent updates over this final month of the season.
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Old 02-12-2024, 10:37 AM
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https://bustingbrackets.com/posts/br...01hpczc8jk9e/2
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  #132  
Old 02-12-2024, 10:45 AM
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...he-year-again/

#13
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Old 02-12-2024, 10:57 AM
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These guys do a Top 25 prediction each week and are usually pretty accurate. Have the Flyers at 16. I’ve reviewed half dozen AP voters and UD is in the 16/18 range. Keep in mind that every team ranked 16-25 last week lost at least one game and 17 of the top 25 lost at least one time. Our loss to VCU looks like one of the better losses.
Everything is relative in rankings. You need to weigh your team against everyone else.

https://247sports.com/longformarticl...ose-227033403/
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Old 02-12-2024, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel View Post
https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...he-year-again/

#13
Parrish does a pretty good job explaining his rankings, but I think he has UD a couple of spots too high. Iíd say more like 15/16 is where they should be.
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Old 02-12-2024, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
These guys do a Top 25 prediction each week and are usually pretty accurate. Have the Flyers at 16. Iíve reviewed half dozen AP voters and UD is in the 16/18 range. Keep in mind that every team ranked 16-25 last week lost at least one game and 17 of the top 25 lost at least one time. Our loss to VCU looks like one of the better losses.
Everything is relative in rankings. You need to weigh your team against everyone else.

https://247sports.com/longformarticl...ose-227033403/
This is crazy rational speak - how dare you - I want to see posts about the sky is falling or other complaints about our Hubris.
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  #136  
Old 02-12-2024, 12:55 PM
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And here lies the difference between the A10 and playing in a power conference. It's amazing how little a Q1 loss affects things. This is how teams like Butler are 6-6 in conference and are still a bubble team. Just don't drop bad games, and we're probably still looking alright. Fortunately, neither of our conference losses have been particularly bad, unlike some of the Top 25 losses dealt out the last couple weeks...
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Old 02-12-2024, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Torvik dropped us down to a 6 seed today. We lost 2 seed lines from just one loss.
I forget, where did he have us seeded/ranked preseason? Oh that's right. The math is gonna math, you have to wait until the end of the season until you know where it ends up. I am not going to have too much of a reaction to the numbers of someone who did not have us in the top 60 (if I recall) preseason. That is not even close to any acceptable margin of error.
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Old 02-12-2024, 01:39 PM
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Jerry Palm has us as a 6 seed

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba.../bracketology/
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  #139  
Old 02-12-2024, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
Jerry Palm has us as a 6 seed

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba.../bracketology/
We are capable of losing to an 11 and also capable of beating a 3. I have no idea what to expect if we get a 5 or 6.
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Old 02-12-2024, 01:58 PM
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Flyers dropped just one spot, to #18, in coaches poll.
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Old 02-12-2024, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog07 View Post
Several on this board have been predicting weíd win out for weeks. The hubris !
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Predicting or discussing? I haven't seen a single person predict we would win out and in fact, most people preface it as a pipe dream rather than an expectation before launching into a discussion about our seeding ceiling which is where I have seen this discussion. What if you actually read and engaged in discussions other than when you come here after a loss looking to troll people who are fans of UD basketball even when we aren't ranked in the top 10?
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Old 02-12-2024, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
Flyers dropped just one spot, to #18, in coaches poll.
And move UP to #16 in AP poll
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  #143  
Old 02-12-2024, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
And move UP to #16 in AP poll
Right where I thought theyíd be. Not to beat a dead horse, but when everyone around you is losing to lower ranked teams youíre likely to improve in rankings and seeding.
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  #144  
Old 02-12-2024, 02:18 PM
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Guess we picked a good week to lose one! Hoping we can go on a nice little four game tear prior to Loyola Chicago.
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Old 02-12-2024, 02:44 PM
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Although we garnered less points this week than last week (493 to 425) we moved up from #18 to #16, Let's get back on the winning track this week and keep on moving up!
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  #146  
Old 02-12-2024, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyerferd View Post
Guess we picked a good week to lose one!
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Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.
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  #147  
Old 02-12-2024, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
Flyers dropped just one spot, to #18, in coaches poll.
Originally Posted by Radar View Post
And move UP to #16 in AP poll
AI is a beautiful thing . . .
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Old 02-12-2024, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
AI is a beautiful thing . . .
It is people voting in a human poll. Literally the opposite of AI. If it were AI it would have some predictive value.
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Old 02-12-2024, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
It is people voting in a human poll. Literally the opposite of AI. If it were AI it would have some predictive value.
I think you missed this ( ) part . . .
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  #150  
Old 02-12-2024, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
And move UP to #16 in AP poll
I thought the sun still came up this morning but wasnít sure after spending some time here and FB page over the weekend.
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  #151  
Old 02-12-2024, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
I forget, where did he have us seeded/ranked preseason? Oh that's right. The math is gonna math, you have to wait until the end of the season until you know where it ends up. I am not going to have too much of a reaction to the numbers of someone who did not have us in the top 60 (if I recall) preseason. That is not even close to any acceptable margin of error.
He's pretty accurate by the end of the season. He is about the only one, that I know of, that does daily forecast updates.

Nobody that I know of that does preseason predictions is totally accurate, preseason predictions are just educated guesses.
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  #152  
Old 02-12-2024, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
I forget, where did he have us seeded/ranked preseason? Oh that's right. The math is gonna math, you have to wait until the end of the season until you know where it ends up. I am not going to have too much of a reaction to the numbers of someone who did not have us in the top 60 (if I recall) preseason. That is not even close to any acceptable margin of error.
He had us at #66...#3 in the A10...Duquesne then Loyola then Dayton

https://barttorvik.com/trankpure24.php

Last edited by ud2; 02-12-2024 at 10:42 PM..
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  #153  
Old 02-12-2024, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
He's pretty accurate by the end of the season. He is about the only one, that I know of, that does daily forecast updates.

Nobody that I know of that does preseason predictions is totally accurate, preseason predictions are just educated guesses.
ESPNís victor predictor also is pretty accurate at the end of the game.
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  #154  
Old 02-13-2024, 12:35 PM
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https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/st...ld-predictions

Updated Bracketology has us as a 4 seed
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Old 02-13-2024, 12:36 PM
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Lunardi, as most prognosticators, has us as a 4 seed today. It will be interesting where the committee is on Saturday with their early top 16 seeds.
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Old 02-13-2024, 04:33 PM
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This week marks the 23rd week an AG coached UD team has been ranked. That is more weeks combined that all other UD teams going back to 1975 (22 wks combined). 40+ years of teams - including the ones AG was on as a player. And if we can be ranked for 3 more weeks it would be more than all teams combined going back to 1970.

Kudos to coach AG and staff and the Administration on taking the program to a new level.
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  #157  
Old 02-13-2024, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by podcast411 View Post
This week marks the 23rd week an AG coached UD team has been ranked. That is more weeks combined that all other UD teams going back to 1975 (22 wks combined). 40+ years of teams - including the ones AG was on as a player. And if we can be ranked for 3 more weeks it would be more than all teams combined going back to 1970.

Kudos to coach AG and staff and the Administration on taking the program to a new level.
Would be interesting to see how many weeks the rest of the A10 teams have been ranked since 2017. I really donít remember any other teams being ranked.
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Old 02-13-2024, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/st...ld-predictions

Updated Bracketology has us as a 4 seed
Dude, he has us in ÖÖÖ. Spokane.

Please, no.
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Old 02-13-2024, 05:46 PM
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We need to get to a 3 seed. That could keep us closer. Being the 16th team really kills us.
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Old 02-13-2024, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
I think you missed this ( ) part . . .
Yeah I donít have very good emoji literacy. Sorry about that.
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Old 02-13-2024, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
He's pretty accurate by the end of the season. He is about the only one, that I know of, that does daily forecast updates.

Nobody that I know of that does preseason predictions is totally accurate, preseason predictions are just educated guesses.
Thatís my point. Itís all educated guesses. Even the computers are ďguessingĒ based on the available data. Iíd also point out that maybe thereís a reason heís the only one who does daily projections. Itís fun to discuss but then people want to argue about. Iím comfortable thinking that as of right now UD is going to be in the tourney and probably a 4-6 seed. That can obviously change for better or worse.
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  #162  
Old 02-13-2024, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Would be interesting to see how many weeks the rest of the A10 teams have been ranked since 2017. I really donít remember any other teams being ranked.
You can look it up below, I'm too lazy, lol

https://collegepollarchive.com/basketball/men/index.cfm
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Old 02-13-2024, 10:51 PM
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Flyers move up to 21 in KenPom.
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  #164  
Old 02-13-2024, 10:55 PM
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Indiana St gets ranked for the first time in 45 years, and falls flat at home to a poor IL St
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  #165  
Old 02-14-2024, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Indiana St gets ranked for the first time in 45 years, and falls flat at home to a poor IL St
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Brutal loss. And they may have been ranked, but their resume is not built to lose games like that. They are still just inside 30 in the NET, but another loss of that quality and they're gonna be in bubble land.
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  #166  
Old 02-17-2024, 06:22 PM
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Sounds like UD is a 5 seed right now...the NCAA released its top 16 teams, seeds 1-4, we didn't make the cut

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...rly-top-seeds/

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Old 02-17-2024, 06:30 PM
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How Wisconsin got in, I will never understand.
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  #168  
Old 02-17-2024, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by John C. View Post
How Wisconsin got in, I will never understand.
And Wisconsin just lost again. Although to be fair, the eye test on Dayton the past couple of weeks isnít great. We have a chance to play our way into a four seed if we avoid a hiccup down the stretch.
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Old 02-17-2024, 08:18 PM
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Kind of late in the season to be asking this, but there are two columns in the Torvik site that I can't figure out and can't find described anywhere in their help section. For example, the Fordham game shows:

Sat 2-17 H 29 187(IV) Fordham W,78-70 62

I know what the 187(IV) is, but what is the "29" and what is the "62"?
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Old 02-17-2024, 08:23 PM
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Here is quote from a Jablonski tweet

NCAA: "The last team revealed was Wisconsin, which has a 6-5 record in quadrant one games, something only a handful of other teams can match and what gave the Badgers an edge over such teams as Creighton, Dayton and Clemson, which were also considered for the fourth line."
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Old 02-17-2024, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by tirebiter View Post
Kind of late in the season to be asking this, but there are two columns in the Torvik site that I can't figure out and can't find described anywhere in their help section. For example, the Fordham game shows:

Sat 2-17 H 29 187(IV) Fordham W,78-70 62

I know what the 187(IV) is, but what is the "29" and what is the "62"?
29 is Daytonís Torvik ranking on the day of the game, so you can track the teamís ranking as the season goes on.

62 is the number of possessions in the game.
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  #172  
Old 02-17-2024, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by sheg View Post
29 is Dayton’s Torvik ranking on the day of the game, so you can track the team’s ranking as the season goes on.

62 is the number of possessions in the game.
Click on the link for the score of the game and then look at the bottom of the page to see the number of possessions:

https://barttorvik.com/box.php?muid=...2-17&year=2024


I do not know how the number of possessions number is calculated though? # of shots + turnovers? Anybody?

Last edited by ud2; 02-18-2024 at 12:36 AM.. Reason: Bad link
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Old 02-17-2024, 09:26 PM
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Also, I have another question. If a player is fouled and misses a shot, then that missed shot is not included in their fg shots made/shots taken stat, correct?
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Old 02-17-2024, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Also, I have another question. If a player is fouled and misses a shot, then that missed shot is not included in their fg shots made/shots taken stat, correct?
That is correct. If they miss a shot while being fouled, does not count. If they make (and 1), it is counted.
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Old 02-18-2024, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Click on the link for the score of the game and then look at the bottom of the page to see the number of possessions:

https://barttorvik.com/box.php?muid=...2-17&year=2024


I do not know how the number of possessions number is calculated though? # of shots + turnovers? Anybody?
The formula for possessions is (FGA + 0.44 * FTA) - OR + TO. Different services use different multipliers for FTA, but most are either 0.44 or 0.475. The multiplier for FTA will never be exact, because sometimes you end a possession with one FTA, sometimes two, sometimes three. The number chosen is an attempt to get a good way to approximate the total possessions without having to look at play by play info.

Last edited by sheg; 02-18-2024 at 12:58 AM..
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  #176  
Old 02-18-2024, 12:33 PM
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Yep

Originally Posted by SC_Flyer View Post
How did South Carolina leap frog us in AP poll? They deserved to be ranked but to go right to #15? We're ahead of them in just about every metric and they have a Quad 3 blemish that we don't. Just seems like some more big conference bias creeping in.

After this week I suspect South Carolina will (rightfully) be trailing the Flyers in the polls.
A home loss to unranked LSU and a 40 point beatdown at Auburn will do that.


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Old 02-18-2024, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by John C. View Post
How Wisconsin got in, I will never understand.

Exactly. And Wisconsin has lost 5 of their last 6 games. Of those 5 losses, 4 were to unranked teams.

And late last night... Lunardi still has Wisconsin ahead of Dayton on his seed line. Good grief!

We are ahead of Wisconsin in NET, AP and Coaches Polls. Conference bias strikes again! Oh well, we need to keep winning!

Go Flyers!
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  #178  
Old 02-18-2024, 01:36 PM
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Bilas has Wisconsin at #12, and us at 19, as of two days ago.
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Old 02-18-2024, 03:16 PM
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Wisconsin and South Carolina are in the Big 10 and SEC respectfully.

Major (for lack of a better word) conferences get the benefit of the doubt
Major conferences are talked about more
Major conferences have better TV contracts
Major conferences get tons of Q1 and Q2 games in Feb and March

The A10 is not a major conference.
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Old 02-18-2024, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
Wisconsin and South Carolina are in the Big 10 and SEC respectfully.

Major (for lack of a better word) conferences get the benefit of the doubt
Major conferences are talked about more
Major conferences have better TV contracts
Major conferences get tons of Q1 and Q2 games in Feb and March

The A10 is not a major conference.
All true, and we got a taste of what it's like to take a quad 1 loss and it not really affect us when we lost to VCU away. It's nice, and it's pretty fair.
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Old 02-18-2024, 06:21 PM
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UD is now #2 in the RPI.
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  #182  
Old 02-18-2024, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Hobopotamus1 View Post
All true, and we got a taste of what it's like to take a quad 1 loss and it not really affect us when we lost to VCU away. It's nice, and it's pretty fair.
But at some point don't you also have to actually WIN some games? Losing five of six, even if they are "good losses", should not be rewarded. I know that not every win or loss is the same and there needs to be some method to determine which ones are good or bad, but I feel like the era of analytics has lessened the importance of winning.
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Old 02-19-2024, 07:09 AM
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So Iím thinking we inch up to number 15 today in the AP. Curious to see what they do with Auburn after losing Saturday.
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Old 02-19-2024, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer View Post
UD is now #2 in the RPI.
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RPI must have not watched dayton play the last month.
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  #185  
Old 02-19-2024, 09:05 AM
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We dropped to #3 late last night.
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Old 02-19-2024, 12:07 PM
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And that shows why RPI was a flawed metric and the NCAA moved away from it. Dayton is NOWHERE near the second or third best team this year.

Yes, the RPI, like the NET, is not a ranking, but a sorting mechanism. But any sorting mechanism that sorts Dayton into the top three this year is garbage.

The NET does a much better job "ranking" the teams. If it has a flaw, it's that it's too generous to hyper-efficient teams. Alabama, BYU, SMC, and Michigan State are all highly efficient, but are lacking in the resume department. They have higher NET than their resumes would suggest. I wouldn't want to play any of them in March, though.

Dayton, on the other hand, doesn't have great efficiency numbers, so the NET penalizes them slightly. 19th in NET is a little lower than they probably should be, but it's a lot more realistic than 3.
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Old 02-19-2024, 02:06 PM
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Today (Feb. 19)...

AP - #16 (no change)

Coaches - #16 (up 2)

NET - 19


https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-col...asketball-poll



Go Flyers!
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  #188  
Old 02-19-2024, 02:09 PM
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160 more votes than last week.
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  #189  
Old 02-19-2024, 02:35 PM
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Canít remember the last time 5 teams dropped out of the AP Top 25 in one week. Crazy year with losses to unranked teams!

Need to keep it rolling at George Mason.


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Old 02-19-2024, 03:19 PM
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If I am correct, this week's ranking means AG's teams have now spent as many or more weeks ranked in the top 25 than all UD teams combined since 1970. That's 53 years if you aren't good at math.
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Old 02-19-2024, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
You can look it up below, I'm too lazy, lol

https://collegepollarchive.com/basketball/men/index.cfm
Thanks for the link. Since 2017 the Flyers have been ranked for 23 weeks which is more than the rest of the A10 combined. Interestingly VCU has only been ranked for 3 weeks in that time span.
https://collegepollarchive.com/mbask...m=2017&to=2024
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Old 02-19-2024, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
If I am correct, this week's ranking means AG's teams have now spent as many or more weeks ranked in the top 25 than all UD teams combined since 1970. That's 53 years if you aren't good at math.
NCAA wins is a great measure of program success. But this is another measure that I have not thought about before. We get a heck of a lot of national exposure from being in the top 25 for extended periods of time.
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  #193  
Old 02-19-2024, 04:08 PM
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Increase in both exposure and excitement, yes; but NCAA selection value?? Not much!
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Old 02-19-2024, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Thanks for the link. Since 2017 the Flyers have been ranked for 23 weeks which is more than the rest of the A10 combined. Interestingly VCU has only been ranked for 3 weeks in that time span.
https://collegepollarchive.com/mbask...m=2017&to=2024
That is interesting. Would you trade all of those "rankings", and the consistency that comes with those, for VCU's tournament success? VCU has tournament wins in 2011, 12, 13 and 16. And a win over Duke in 2007 (by our current HC). And a Final Four in 2011. I'd probably take the VCU of the last 20 years vs Dayton.

The 2019/20 team was a great ride that ended prematurely, but would you trade that ride for the 2011 VCU FF? I suspect most would.

It's a really interesting question. And it's not as though VCU hasn't had consistency either. They've made the NCAAT 13 times in the last 20 years. Year after year, they just really seem to be playing their best basketball when it matters most - in March.

They were a 5-seed twice (2013/14), a 7-seed once and an 8-seed. Every other time they were a double digit seed. Dayton's certainly had just as many single digit seeds, certainly if you factor in the Covid year, but only made the tourney like half as many times in the last 20 years.
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  #195  
Old 02-19-2024, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
We get a heck of a lot of national exposure from being in the top 25 for extended periods of time.
Time to start taking advantage, and as they say no time like the present....
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Old 02-19-2024, 04:30 PM
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FWIW the AP expanded their poll from top 20 to top 25 in 1989 or thereabouts
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Old 02-19-2024, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SLUFLYER View Post
That is interesting. Would you trade all of those "rankings", and the consistency that comes with those, for VCU's tournament success? VCU has tournament wins in 2011, 12, 13 and 16. And a win over Duke in 2007 (by our current HC). And a Final Four in 2011. I'd probably take the VCU of the last 20 years vs Dayton.

The 2019/20 team was a great ride that ended prematurely, but would you trade that ride for the 2011 VCU FF? I suspect most would.

It's a really interesting question. And it's not as though VCU hasn't had consistency either. They've made the NCAAT 13 times in the last 20 years. Year after year, they just really seem to be playing their best basketball when it matters most - in March.

They were a 5-seed twice (2013/14), a 7-seed once and an 8-seed. Every other time they were a double digit seed. Dayton's certainly had just as many single digit seeds, certainly if you factor in the Covid year, but only made the tourney like half as many times in the last 20 years.
Agreed. The stated goal of the program is not to have as many top-25 rankings as posslble.
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Old 02-19-2024, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
If I am correct, this week's ranking means AG's teams have now spent as many or more weeks ranked in the top 25 than all UD teams combined since 1970. That's 53 years if you aren't good at math.
54 actually...
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Old Yesterday, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Lifelong Flyer Fan View Post
Here is quote from a Jablonski tweet

NCAA: "The last team revealed was Wisconsin, which has a 6-5 record in quadrant one games, something only a handful of other teams can match and what gave the Badgers an edge over such teams as Creighton, Dayton and Clemson, which were also considered for the fourth line."
Let's all take a moment to appreciate that the committee specifically said Dayton was in at this point. No fretting over a bubble, no concern about a bid stealer from another conference (or even our own), no worry about a home First Four game. Just solidly in, per the committee!

The team is not exactly playing inspired ball right now, and I get the frustration. But at least for now we keep winning, we're in the best position we've been in in 5 years, and we should try to enjoy that fact at least a little. Dayton fandom has been full of a lot of pain, we don't need to go looking for more.
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Old Yesterday, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
Agreed. The stated goal of the program is not to have as many top-25 rankings as posslble.
Can we give the 'stated goal' argument a rest? OSU's stated goal every year is to win the National Championship. There is a huge difference between stated and actual goals.

This ranking stat is a double edged sword as it points out the teams AG has had are better performing than alll other teams combined over the past 40+ years. The NCAA bids don't reflect that so that is the other side of that stat.

The 'stated goal' has only occurred 11 times in 50 years and in that time we've had just 6 coaches so perhaps that 50% invite is not what the success of the program and the coach really is measured against?

The ranking success AG has had is an indicator of the improvement of the state of the program under his watch. It shows that it hadn't been for the unprecendented injuries last year and to a lessor degree the year before, the team might have been something special in the tourney. This isn't the only indicator or likely the most important one but it is an important one.

Include in your analysis the reality of the injuries the past 2 seasons and the fact that we were a half away both years of being in, AG possibly having the greatest team in UD history, and the success to date of this season and a completely different story is told. Thankfully the admininstration looks at more than 1/6.

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