Kaleb Washington?

[cobra8u]

What happened to this guy he would give us 8 players, better than 7.

[TommyGola]

He is on probation.

[flyhi524]

He's suspended

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by cobra8u What happened to this guy he would give us 8 players, better than 7.

Washington is a 6'7" forward. Would he be useful in giving Amzil (24 minutes) or Zimi (17 minutes) a break?

Who exactly would he be playing for, Uhl at PG / SG?

I don't think having 5 more guys at forward makes any difference. I feel like Camara has those minutes pretty well locked up with backups abounding. What we need are guards.

[Jeff]

AG said suspended for 2-3 games. Word is that it is grades, but there is no formal reason given. I don't think he's going to see big minutes regardless....unless something dramatic happens, his minutes will be low, which may push him towards the portal.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Jeff AG said suspended for 2-3 games. Word is that it is grades, but there is no formal reason given. I don't think he's going to see big minutes regardless....unless something dramatic happens, his minutes will be low, which may push him towards the portal.

I'm not so sure. Reason being, the only thing that changed since this offseason was his suspension. It was pretty obvious to everyone that there was a logjam at the 3 and 4 positions from last season up to now. Yet, after a freshman season of very little playing and also being a high ranked recruit that probably still has decent options to transfer to, he returned.

Something made him want to return, again other than the suspension, what else would make him want to leave? I think his potential is through the roof as he seems to possess the most all around skills of anyone on the team IMO. I think he's kind of like RJ except with better passing skills(not sure about his defense though)

[ClaytonFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Washington is a 6'7" forward. Would he be useful in giving Amzil (24 minutes) or Zimi (17 minutes) a break? Who exactly would he be playing for, Uhl at PG / SG? I don't think having 5 more guys at forward makes any difference. I feel like Camara has those minutes pretty well locked up with backups abounding. What we need are guards.

The few quality minutes Washington gave us last year in the NIT he was typically on the wing playing the 3 spot. So IMO not competing for minutes with Camara, Holmes, or Zimi. Occasionally with Amzil.

[springborofan]

What are you basing that on Smitty? It’s a pretty small sample size to make a comment like that (unless, maybe, hopefully, you have some inside info?)

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by springborofan What are you basing that on Smitty? It’s a pretty small sample size to make a comment like that (unless, maybe, hopefully, you have some inside info?)

From his recruiting summaries to his high school highlights to the very limited sample size I've seen of him, I see him being a player that can play top of the key, shoot from outside or take the ball to the hoop. I saw some very incredible passes from him in his limited time on the court also. I think with some added muscle, which was what was expected of him during the offseason, he can be a rebounding threat also. Kind of Chris Johnson/RJ type player with passing skills.

Yes, as a Freshman, with very few minutes, he looked unsure of himself, not loose, which I would expect of anyone in his situation.

This guy wasn't a top 100 recruit for nothing. His main problem was being a true freshman on a team that had the 4 and 5 positions settled, with lots of more experienced players vying for all the other positions. When last year started, only Mali and Greer(other than DaRon but that's a whole different story) had as little college BB experience as Kaleb but they were vying for a position that was up for grabs.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan The few quality minutes Washington gave us last year in the NIT he was typically on the wing playing the 3 spot. So IMO not competing for minutes with Camara, Holmes, or Zimi. Occasionally with Amzil.

I didn't mention Holmes. Will Washington be competing for a coaching spot too? No idea what our 5 has to do with anything. I said Camara, Zimi, Amzil. We've got plenty of bodies to go around there at the 3/4 spot.

I didn't see anything last year that told me Washington can handle the ball, he's not a 2 guard at all. Maybe he gets the Uhl minutes (against a barely D1 team) but he's not a ball handler. If we really needed it, we could push Uhl's minutes to other guys. Sure, a top 100 guy vs Uhl (no offense to Uhl), maybe Washington gets a few minutes, conceded. But my point was it doesn't fix the problem. The problem is guards and Washington isn't it. Any minute Washington could play, Amzil / Zimi / Mike / Blakney could shift things around and play.

And maybe Washington leads the team in scoring this year, who knows. But Mike is a top 100 player too. That's what a 6'7"-ish guard looks like. Washington looks like a tweener who doesn't solve our problem.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Gazoo I didn't mention Holmes. Will Washington be competing for a coaching spot too? No idea what our 5 has to do with anything. I said Camara, Zimi, Amzil. We've got plenty of bodies to go around there at the 3/4 spot. I didn't see anything last year that told me Washington can handle the ball, he's not a 2 guard at all. Maybe he gets the Uhl minutes (against a barely D1 team) but he's not a ball handler. If we really needed it, we could push Uhl's minutes to other guys. Sure, a top 100 guy vs Uhl (no offense to Uhl), maybe Washington gets a few minutes, conceded. But my point was it doesn't fix the problem. The problem is guards and Washington isn't it. Any minute Washington could play, Amzil / Zimi / Mike / Blakney could shift things around and play. And maybe Washington leads the team in scoring this year, who knows. But Mike is a top 100 player too. That's what a 6'7"-ish guard looks like. Washington looks like a tweener who doesn't solve our problem.

I guess the problem is we have depth, but it's unbalanced depth. This is the 2nd straight season we've gone into wondering how the minutes were going to be divided. Back in 2013-2014, we had depth also, but it was much more balanced. And really, it's yet to be proven that our bench is that strong. The depth we keep talking about includes Amzil, Zimi, Brea, Amaefule and probably Mike or Elvis when our roster is healthy. None of these guys have yet instilled a lot of confidence that when called upon they will answer the call. It's been more like sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Especially if needed to start. I say that about Mike because he's only played one game against a patsy team but expect he's going to be top notch.

Back in 2013-2014, we had an answer for every position whether the depth was called on to eat up minutes for rest and foul trouble or to start for injuries. I really am far from saying that this depth we rave about now, comes close to the depth we had that Elite Eight season. And honestly, other than DaRon, I'm not so sure we're better in any other area of the team than we were then. Not saying we won't be, but it's far from a given at this point.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 I guess the problem is we have depth, but it's unbalanced depth. This is the 2nd straight season we've gone into wondering how the minutes were going to be divided. Back in 2013-2014, we had depth also, but it was much more balanced. And really, it's yet to be proven that our bench is that strong. The depth we keep talking about includes Amzil, Zimi, Brea, Amaefule and probably Mike or Elvis when our roster is healthy. None of these guys have yet instilled a lot of confidence that when called upon they will answer the call. It's been more like sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Especially if needed to start. I say that about Mike because he's only played one game against a patsy team but expect he's going to be top notch. Back in 2013-2014, we had an answer for every position whether the depth was called on to eat up minutes for rest and foul trouble or to start for injuries. I really am far from saying that this depth we rave about now, comes close to the depth we had that Elite Eight season. And honestly, other than DaRon, I'm not so sure we're better in any other area of the team than we were then. Not saying we won't be, but it's far from a given at this point.

Camara is freaking good. I mean, really good.

But yeah, we've got a lot of bodies who are all capable, there's no Marco Pikkar's in the group. No Maurice Bayena's. These guys can play. But can they just play, or can they help drive us to a top 15 ranking?

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Camara is freaking good. I mean, really good. But yeah, we've got a lot of bodies who are all capable, there's no Marco Pikkar's in the group. No Maurice Bayena's. These guys can play. But can they just play, or can they help drive us to a top 15 ranking?

I think Camara is real good too. And if that's in response to my comparison of starters to back in Elite Eight year, we're comparing him to Pierre, who was really,, really good also. Then you have RJ playing Oliver's position, Elvis playing Sibert's and Mali playing Price/Scoochie's(I'll have to give it to Mali compared to Price and freshman Scooch).

But it's the depth that is so awkward and questionable. We had Scott, Robinson, Pollard and Gavrilovic backing up the 4 and 5s. We had Scooch backing up PG and Vee backing up PG/SG with Kyle Davis also getting minutes.

When the backups on that team were called upon, they performed, they didn't come in and look ready some days and totally confused the next. That team went mainly 11 deep and actually went to a 12th in the NCAA tournament when Gavrilovic had to finish the half against Stanford due to a lot of foul trouble. Yet they all got enough playing time to keep them happy except for Gavrilovic.

I'm hoping that logjam we have at the 3 and 4 positions is not just a competition on who's going to get playing time and who's not, but needed due to foul trouble that will come along with a super aggressive defense.

[Alberto Strasse]

has gone from a 5 game suspension to indefinite. Sounds bad to me. We'll see.

[keats '91]

Washington demonstrated a good feel for spacing on offense in limited time last year. Imagine that he would fully compliment Mongo Mike's passing abilities. And lead to a much smoother offense. I hope we get a chance to see it.

[Medford]

Well that doesn't sound good.

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Alberto Strasse has gone from a 5 game suspension to indefinite. Sounds bad to me. We'll see.

This is bad news. We are morphing from a team with extreme guard-depth issues to a team with depth issues, period.

[steverino015]

that's not good.. if it's grades hit the books
instead of the hooks.... hope this is something he
can attack and fix. rooting for him.

[The Fly]

If it’s grades, he’s probably out until first semester is over and his classroom work passes muster. So that’s a mid-December return at best. He has solid potential, so I’m rooting for him.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 I think Camara is real good too. And if that's in response to my comparison of starters to back in Elite Eight year, we're comparing him to Pierre, who was really,, really good also.

I'll take Camara over Pierre, though Pierre was a better shooter and zone buster. Camara is one of those grown-man athletes we encounter when we play the Kansas's of the world where we ask "where do they get such specimens?" Camara would have a lot more blocks if Holmes wasn't constantly taking them.

Though I'd love to see Camara be able to hit the 3 before he goes.

[flyer016]

Originally Posted by Gazoo I'll take Camara over Pierre, though Pierre was a better shooter and zone buster. Camara is one of those grown-man athletes we encounter when we play the Kansas's of the world where we ask "where do they get such specimens?" Camara would have a lot more blocks if Holmes wasn't constantly taking them. Though I'd love to see Camara be able to hit the 3 before he goes.

Camara is an extremely good athlete. Great side-to-side agility, great leaper, but he lacks skills. He doesn't have much touch around the rim, is clumsy with the ball and has real limitations on his shot. I'm thrilled to have him on the team this year, and I think he slots in wonderfully next to Holmes, but I don't anticipate a big leap in production from Camara this year. In many ways, he's opposite of Pierre, who was not much of an athlete (by D1 basketball standards), but was very skilled and smart.

Hard to see how this ends well for Washington. Next to no minutes last year and in the dog house to start this year. Incredibly long but equally as a raw. If Grant wasn't incredible with culture and getting guys to stick around, I assume he's as good as gone at the winter break. Hope he's got the same commitment as Zimi or talks with Baker about the grass not always being greener.

[pmcmullen]

I always root for our players (barring a clear display of terrible character), but I'd be very surprised to see Kaleb suit up again as a Flyer. Something doesn't seem right here.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by flyer016 Camara is an extremely good athlete. Great side-to-side agility, great leaper, but he lacks skills. He doesn't have much touch around the rim, is clumsy with the ball and has real limitations on his shot. I'm thrilled to have him on the team this year, and I think he slots in wonderfully next to Holmes, but I don't anticipate a big leap in production from Camara this year. In many ways, he's opposite of Pierre, who was not much of an athlete (by D1 basketball standards), but was very skilled and smart.

I think you're being a tad harsh. He's better than you're describing him but I agree on the comparison with Pierre.

[Medford]

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.ph...amara&t=Dayton


Using Torvik's rating system/stats you get a good picture of what Tumani has been the last 3 seasons:


He is an exceptional defensive rebounder, an above average offensive rebounder, he is great on 2 point shots, average on 3 point shots, turns the ball over too much. He was an above average shot blocker his 2nd season at Georgia, and just average last season, so perhaps Gazoo is on to something about his shot blocking ability being lessened by the presence of Holmes down low. If you dig a little deeper you see that his 3pt shooting was poor OOC but well above average in conference play, he certainly improved on that as the season went along.


I'm not sure why anyone would compare him to Pierre, completely different kinds of players. Camara improved a ton over the course of last season; I think with a young an inexperienced team last year he forced too much early on, but once things settled in and the players around him gained experience he played more calm an in the flow (assists went up, turnover went down in conference play) The biggest area I'd love to see him improve is his free throw shooting. He's never shown the ability to be even an average free throw shooter thru his first 3 seasons. Good news is he didn't miss any in game 1, bad news is he didn't take any either

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by pmcmullen I always root for our players (barring a clear display of terrible character), but I'd be very surprised to see Kaleb suit up again as a Flyer. Something doesn't seem right here.

I agree. No reason to take joy in another's misfortune, self inflicted or not.

[NJFlyr71]

Kaleb may turn out similar to Kostas in the sense that he started academics last year and has found a low level of desire to be involved with studying in the class. Just a thought. Some have transitional issues in the higher level of commitment needed in a college setting.

HS can be a much more forgiving environment.

Complete conjecture on my part.

I have known of people after their first year at UD to question whether they should have come back in their second year. Some fought through it, continuing on while another left mid-year.

It is not a failing .... it is just a choice having to be made by the individual as to who they are and what they want.

Whatever he chooses may it work out the best for him.

[OSU Flyer]

https://twitter.com/keegan_gupta/sta...37807040176129

according to Flyer News reporter, he's back at practice

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer https://twitter.com/keegan_gupta/sta...37807040176129 according to Flyer News reporter, he's back at practice

This is huge to me.

I realize he has many doubters on here, but I think he's going to be a very good player. And he's going to be needed to give both Camara and Deuce some breathers while still having some rebounding muscle. When I say Deuce getting a breather, that means moving Camara to the 5 while Kaleb plays the 4.

He's eventually going to work his way into being a 3-4 hybrid so that also means being in there at times for RJ also.

Odd man out prediction, Zimi.

[Hyde Park Flyer]

Zimi seems like a great kid but a bad fit for the team. It’s a noticeable step down when he plays. It’s really too bad.
Posted via Mobile Device

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 This is huge to me. I realize he has many doubters on here, but I think he's going to be a very good player. And he's going to be needed to give both Camara and Deuce some breathers while still having some rebounding muscle. When I say Deuce getting a breather, that means moving Camara to the 5 while Kaleb plays the 4. He's eventually going to work his way into being a 3-4 hybrid so that also means being in there at times for RJ also. Odd man out prediction, Zimi.

The $64 million question is he still in the doghouse after he's back

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer The $64 million question is he still in the doghouse after he's back

If it's for academic reason, there should be no dog house as far as the team goes. If it was for team disciplinary reasons, then the doghouse is the suspension out of the doghouse should be reinstatement.

[springborofan]

Whatever the circumstances, he missed a great opportunity to showcase his talents. With Brea back and Mali not far behind, minutes will get much more difficult to earn.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Hyde Park Flyer Zimi seems like a great kid but a bad fit for the team. It’s a noticeable step down when he plays. It’s really too bad. Posted via Mobile Device

Yep.

In 2020-2021, we had a slow plodding team with Jordy at the 5, Amzil at the 4 and Ibi(terrible ballhandler) at the 3. Crutch and Chapman were the only speed/ball handlers we had. That's why Zimi and Amzil gave us better minutes as that type of pace can feature those two. And we were a terrible rebounding team so he wasn't a step down, just another non-rebounder when he entered the game.

But he doesn't fit now that we have DaRon and Camara and wouldn't have fit in the 2019-2020 season either if hypothetically he would've been on it.

To me he seems like a poor man's Xeyrius Williams with a better attitude.

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 If it's for academic reason, there should be no dog house as far as the team goes. If it was for team disciplinary reasons, then the doghouse is the suspension out of the doghouse should be reinstatement.

If his suspension truly is for grades, which I believe, it might not play out until the next grading period. Or maybe when his tutors convince the Coach that he has changed his ways.
If disciplinary he could be back when AG feels the punishment issue has been cured tbd.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 This is huge to me. I realize he has many doubters on here, but I think he's going to be a very good player. And he's going to be needed to give both Camara and Deuce some breathers while still having some rebounding muscle. When I say Deuce getting a breather, that means moving Camara to the 5 while Kaleb plays the 4. He's eventually going to work his way into being a 3-4 hybrid so that also means being in there at times for RJ also. Odd man out prediction, Zimi.

Both will be recruited over, I think.

[flyer016]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Both will be recruited over, I think.

I don't think Grant necessarily recruits over guys.

First, he rarely gets guys that are Day 1 instant starters. Holmes, the highest ranked Flyer recruit of all-time, is an exception. Sharavjamts wouldn't be starting without injury. There are other exceptions, but I think Grant generally leans toward veterans when possible.

More, I think it's Grant's style to reward everybody. If you're a good soldier, there will be PT for you. Zimi's a great example. I think he's on the lower end of what's playable at UD's level, yet he's going to get opportunities all year long. I like this approach. I think it encourages buy-in and longevity. It also treats players like more than trading cards, which I think will have value in the NIL era.

[Swampy Meadows]

Whatever caused Kaleb to be suspended is in the past. He was at practice yesterday which means he is no longer suspended, so it most likely was not grades. We don't know.

Moving forward is up to Kaleb. He can embrace the opportunity or he can sulk. I commend him for returning this year when many kids would have hit the portal. There is a lot to like about his game and there is a place in AG's rotation for him if he is willing to work for it.

Good luck Kaleb!

[flyer016]

Also, bears noting that there's likely not a huge rift between Washington and the program. Otherwise, I doubt Pebblebrook sends Jaiun Simon this way if there's real animosity or bad blood.

Here's hoping Washington gets his feet under himself and starts contributing in short order.

[steve]

Originally Posted by flyer016 I don't think Grant necessarily recruits over guys. First, he rarely gets guys that are Day 1 instant starters. Holmes, the highest ranked Flyer recruit of all-time, is an exception. Sharavjamts wouldn't be starting without injury. There are other exceptions, but I think Grant generally leans toward veterans when possible. More, I think it's Grant's style to reward everybody. If you're a good soldier, there will be PT for you. Zimi's a great example. I think he's on the lower end of what's playable at UD's level, yet he's going to get opportunities all year long. I like this approach. I think it encourages buy-in and longevity. It also treats players like more than trading cards, which I think will have value in the NIL era.

Every coach will recruit over a player if that recruit is really really good and the other player never progresses or very little whether on the court or off as long as the scholarship numbers are available. Little things always count and you can't wait for year 3 to finally have the bread rise. If they don't they're not doing their job but, again, alot of times in today's age of college sports the player will make it easy for the coach by transferring..

No indictment at all against Washington as he may be a nice contributor this year/next year and/or turn into a real go to player and I'd like to see it.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by steve Every coach will recruit over a player if that recruit is really really good and the other player never progresses or very little whether on the court or off as long as the scholarship numbers are available. Little things always count and you can't wait for year 3 to finally have the bread rise. If they don't they're not doing their job but, again, alot of times in today's age of college sports the player will make it easy for the coach by transferring.. No indictment at all against Washington as he may be a nice contributor this year/next year and/or turn into a real go to player and I'd like to see it.

Given what the expectations are for the program, as voiced on this board, we better at least be trying to recruit over every player we have.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by flyer016 I don't think Grant necessarily recruits over guys. First, he rarely gets guys that are Day 1 instant starters. Holmes, the highest ranked Flyer recruit of all-time, is an exception. Sharavjamts wouldn't be starting without injury. There are other exceptions, but I think Grant generally leans toward veterans when possible.

Grant leans toward toward the best player where possible. Grant doesn't care about your arbitrary class name next to your name on the roster. Amzil started nearly every game as a freshman yet started almost none as a sophomore (or junior). It's more than "an example" it's just a truth, AG will start the 5 that work best for winning.

Let's consider the alternative to "recruiting over" someone:
Joe Schmo played a full year with the Flyers as a freshman and got eaten alive in practice every day by a senior starter. It was apparent to both Joe and AG that Joe wasn't going to blossom as hoped. It happens. But since AG doesn't recruit over someone, AG spends the offseason looking for players that are worse than Joe and signs a player who will clearly not challenge Joe for a starting spot next year.

Really?

Or does it go more like this:
Joe Schmo played a full year with the Flyers as a freshman and got eaten alive in practice every day by a senior starter. It was apparent to both Joe and AG that Joe wasn't going to blossom as hoped. It happens. But since AG definitely does recruit over someone, AG spends the offseason looking for players and transfers in for immediate playing time that are far better than Joe and signs a player who will very likely take Joe's spot in the rotation next year. Zimi. . . I mean Joe. . . can stay on and help the team, but if he wants to play big minutes, AG makes it clear that Youngstown State is the way to go.

[flyer016]

I think there's a misunderstanding about "recruiting over."

The reality is Grant and company bring in the very best players they can find. Given the general caliber of UD recruits though, rarely are these guys that force their way into the lineup immediately.

When they do, it's generally a roster issue. Amzil played upon arrival, because they were absolutely desperate for size. Mali played, because the other options at PG were 2Gs (Elvis & Weaver) or another freshman. Holmes is one of the few examples of a freshman jumping to the front of the line (Sissoko, Amzil).

To me, recruiting over is getting a McDonald's AA PG, then bringing in another McDonald's AA PG the next year when the first didn't pan out as planned. UD just isn't that kind of program right now. I also think Grant is more loyal to his players than the average college coach.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Gazoo Grant leans toward toward the best player where possible. Grant doesn't care about your arbitrary class name next to your name on the roster. Amzil started nearly every game as a freshman yet started almost none as a sophomore (or junior). It's more than "an example" it's just a truth, AG will start the 5 that work best for winning. Let's consider the alternative to "recruiting over" someone: Joe Schmo played a full year with the Flyers as a freshman and got eaten alive in practice every day by a senior starter. It was apparent to both Joe and AG that Joe wasn't going to blossom as hoped. It happens. But since AG doesn't recruit over someone, AG spends the offseason looking for players that are worse than Joe and signs a player who will clearly not challenge Joe for a starting spot next year. Really? Or does it go more like this: Joe Schmo played a full year with the Flyers as a freshman and got eaten alive in practice every day by a senior starter. It was apparent to both Joe and AG that Joe wasn't going to blossom as hoped. It happens. But since AG definitely does recruit over someone, AG spends the offseason looking for players and transfers in for immediate playing time that are far better than Joe and signs a player who will very likely take Joe's spot in the rotation next year. Zimi. . . I mean Joe. . . can stay on and help the team, but if he wants to play big minutes, AG makes it clear that Youngstown State is the way to go.

I guess the best example of AG attempting to recruit over was the fact that Trey Landers was a starter for the 2018-2019 season. AG went out and signed Chase Johnson and inserted him as a starter in the 2019-2020 season opener against Indiana St. Thankfully that lasted all of one game as Trey was reinstated as the starter and the rest is history, LIITERALLY.

[CvilleFlyer]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 I guess the best example of AG attempting to recruit over was the fact that Trey Landers was a starter for the 2018-2019 season. AG went out and signed Chase Johnson and inserted him as a starter in the 2019-2020 season opener against Indiana St. Thankfully that lasted all of one game as Trey was reinstated as the starter and the rest is history, LIITERALLY.

Trey Landers was so valuable to that 2019-2020 team with his leadership ability. He and Ryan Mikesell were the glue that held that team together! I don't see anyone on this years team who is willing to accept that roll! Maybe Mali, but he hasn't seen the floor yet. Camara injured his knee in the UNLV game but could be a possibility as well!

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by CvilleFlyer Trey Landers was so valuable to that 2019-2020 team with his leadership ability. He and Ryan Mikesell were the glue that held that team together! I don't see anyone on this years team who is willing to accept that roll! Maybe Mali, but he hasn't seen the floor yet. Camara injured his knee in the UNLV game but could be a possibility as well!

That's the kind of leadership you get out of quality seniors who've spent all their years with the program. It's rare, Oliver is the only other I can think of that brought that kind of magical leadership in a long while.

What's kind of ironic, is those 3 aforementioned, Oliver, Trey and Ryan, were all leftover from the previous coach. Maybe not ironic, maybe the fact they stayed and thrived gave a peek at their maturity and subsequent leadership that followed.

[OSU Flyer]

If he’s out of the doghouse, great opportunity to see what he has
Posted via Mobile Device

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer If he’s out of the doghouse, great opportunity to see what he has Posted via Mobile Device

If it's grade related, he may not be back until the semester ends and grades are posted. But we haven't heard for sure one way or the other. Would be nice to have an extra body though.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer If he’s out of the doghouse, great opportunity to see what he has Posted via Mobile Device

Agree - I also think Richard can get minutes now he wouldn’t have gotten without the injuries. Amzil has been mostly good this year but could easily improve if he’s thrust into the starting lineup like his freshman year and can play extended minutes at a time rather than spot, sub duty


It’s also time for RJ to step up and play with consistency and be more of a force on both ends of the court.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Radar]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan If it's grade related, he may not be back until the semester ends and grades are posted. But we haven't heard for sure one way or the other. Would be nice to have an extra body though.

He is reinstated. There’s no waiting…other than him proving to AG he’s ready to contribute.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Jeff]

Unless KW can play guard, his minutes would have to come at the expense of:

(minutes & pts. / game rounded)
Min. Pts
Holmes 35. 14
Camara 30. 9
Blakney 24. 6
Amzil 25. 10
Zimi 6 1


If you are looking for offense, then Blakney & Zimi must see a reduction.

UD has 105 TO's in 7 games, or 15 / game. Cutting that in half, would net out 6 or so points / game.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by Jeff Unless KW can play guard, his minutes would have to come at the expense of: (minutes & pts. / game rounded) Min. Pts Holmes 35. 14 Camara 30. 9 Blakney 24. 6 Amzil 25. 10 Zimi 6 1 If you are looking for offense, then Blakney & Zimi must see a reduction. UD has 105 TO's in 7 games, or 15 / game. Cutting that in half, would net out 6 or so points / game.

I think given the depth we might have some one guard lineups
Posted via Mobile Device

[hawkoooo]

Originally Posted by Radar He is reinstated. There’s no waiting…other than him proving to AG he’s ready to contribute. Posted via Mobile Device

Clearly that has not and is not going to happen. He just rode the pine during a historic collection of consecutive losses. What on Earth suggests that he'll play now? He isn't a guard and playing him out of position as a SF/wing seems unappetizing. Haven't we seen enough playing out of position under AG?

On the other hand why not throw him in the mix? He's uber-athletic and seems to be able to handle himself on the break. One guard lineups could be cool. We might as well be the tallest team in basketball we're already the slowest.

[st marys]

Zimi was interviewed on the coaches show last night. And I swear I heard him say something about Kaleb being healthy now. Maybe he’s also been sick or injured.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Chris R]

If I'm a deep bench player I'm salivating at the possible minutes I can earn just on hustle and rebounding. If I go out there and lay an egg however, then I have no one to blame but myself because the minutes are there to be completely stolen. You'll just reinforce to everyone why there was good reason you weren't seeing the floor to begin with.

This opportunity has come about through less than idea circumstances and it may not materialize again. Don't blow it. And if you do, you gave everyone what they expected which wasn't much. Not the way to win the crowd.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Chris R If I'm a deep bench player I'm salivating at the possible minutes I can earn just on hustle and rebounding. If I go out there and lay an egg however, then I have no one to blame but myself because the minutes are there to be completely stolen. You'll just reinforce to everyone why there was good reason you weren't seeing the floor to begin with. This opportunity has come about through less than idea circumstances and it may not materialize again. Don't blow it. And if you do, you gave everyone what they expected which wasn't much. Not the way to win the crowd.

Agree. The same could be said for our (now) freshman point guard who might be better than last year's freshman point guard.

[Sea Bass]

While MM might be a better offensive player he is not nearly the defender Mali is. That is part of the reason I expect them to play zone like they did in OT against BYU.

[Flyers98]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass While MM might be a better offensive player he is not nearly the defender Mali is. That is part of the reason I expect them to play zone like they did in OT against BYU.

Anyone who can stay healthy is a better defender than Mali is now. Mike is going to grow and get better with all these minutes coming his way.

[Marysville Flyer]

MM needs to learn to stop reaching quickly or the PG and G situation will get much worse.

I like the idea of a zone. We've looked good in zone at times this year.

[TommyGola]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer MM needs to learn to stop reaching quickly or the PG and G situation will get much worse. I like the idea of a zone. We've looked good in zone at times this year.

I agree, M'ville, but it better be a match-up zone or many teams will torch it from the outside.

[frisco flyer]

I will be surprised (and worried) if we play a lot of zone. We play elite man to man defense and I think it would be a struggle to get to a point where our zone defense is even close to being as good as our standard man to man defense. This at a time when our offensive production is mediocre at best could lay down the foundation for a losing season.

I think we will continue to rely on defense while we adjust to playing offense without our starters at the 1 and 2 positions. We will need to adjust but there's a lot of talent left on the team, and if our bad luck is behind us, I think we can still have a strong season.

[Alberto Strasse]

because of his thin roster at guard. He needs to protect Mike and Brea from fouling out. He does not want to play zone but injuries and sickness have forced his hand.

[Jeff]

Our defense wasn't too bad before Mali returned. Aaaaaaaand, Elvis is not exactly a lock down defender. So I wouldn't be surprised if we did not play alot of zone. we will only go to zone if the foul situation requires it.

Let's see!

[San Diego Flyer]

Originally Posted by Jeff Our defense wasn't too bad before Mali returned. Aaaaaaaand, Elvis is not exactly a lock down defender. So I wouldn't be surprised if we did not play alot of zone. we will only go to zone if the foul situation requires it. Let's see!

I'm ok with zone, but we have to be more hungry for the long rebounds that we can expect.

[maddog07]

Originally Posted by frisco flyer I will be surprised (and worried) if we play a lot of zone. We play elite man to man defense and I think it would be a struggle to get to a point where our zone defense is even close to being as good as our standard man to man defense. This at a time when our offensive production is mediocre at best could lay down the foundation for a losing season. I think we will continue to rely on defense while we adjust to playing offense without our starters at the 1 and 2 positions. We will need to adjust but there's a lot of talent left on the team, and if our bad luck is behind us, I think we can still have a strong season.

Elite man to man. How did that work with the 23 point lead vs BYU? We didn’t defend at all!
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[Jeff]

Originally Posted by maddog07 Elite man to man. How did that work with the 23 point lead vs BYU? We didn’t defend at all! Posted via Mobile Device

We went to zone against BYU and they lit it up.

[Glen Clark]

The Flyers went to a 1-3-1 late in tonight's game, with Camara at the top.
looked pretty good.

_____________________
Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

[springborofan]

Since this thread is about Washington, let’s address the elephant in the room. Washington plays one minute vs. WMU. He’s gone after Christmas break…

[pmcmullen]

Not convinced there's a white elephant in the room anymore than there is a Kaleb Washington in our roster discussion. (Ha!!)

I have always rooted the kid on and thought he showed character sticking it out for this season, but clearly something isn't working out. Anyone that can't generate enough to earn minutes right now has no business being on the team. Not sure a decision will come mid-season or after this year, but I would be extremely shocked to see him on next year's roster one way or another.

[Marysville Flyer]

Originally Posted by pmcmullen Not convinced there's a white elephant in the room anymore than there is a Kaleb Washington in our roster discussion. (Ha!!) I have always rooted the kid on and thought he showed character sticking it out for this season, but clearly something isn't working out. Anyone that can't generate enough to earn minutes right now has no business being on the team. Not sure a decision will come mid-season or after this year, but I would be extremely shocked to see him on next year's roster one way or another.

I’d like to believe what someone relayed about Kaleb having a sprained ankle. If that isn’t true then he’s gotta be deep in the doghouse and can’t see any reason to hope he’ll find his way out at this point.
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[pmcmullen]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer I’d like to believe what someone relayed about Kaleb having a sprained ankle. If that isn’t true then he’s gotta be deep in the doghouse and can’t see any reason to hope he’ll find his way out at this point. Posted via Mobile Device

I hadn't heard that rumor, but it certainly nothing anyone would argue this year since it's quite a trend right now. We should all buy stock in ankle boots, crutches and Ace bandages it seems.

What I have heard are AG's comments about Kaleb, like "He knows what he needs to do." Those don't quite line up with his short list of canned injury-related responses that we're all hearing regularly.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer I’d like to believe what someone relayed about Kaleb having a sprained ankle. If that isn’t true then he’s gotta be deep in the doghouse and can’t see any reason to hope he’ll find his way out at this point. Posted via Mobile Device

I'd like to believe that too. However, after what we've been through so far, wouldn't a sprained ankle warrant zero minutes as opposed to one?

Or maybe you're saying that he has to work himself back into game shape and yesterday was the start with a cautious minute on the court?

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by pmcmullen I hadn't heard that rumor, but it certainly nothing anyone would argue this year since it's quite a trend right now. We should all buy stock in ankle boots, crutches and Ace bandages it seems. What I have heard are AG's comments about Kaleb, like "He knows what he needs to do." Those don't quite line up with his short list of canned injury-related responses that we're all hearing regularly.

AG's comments about KW can't be taken as 100% positive. Not totally negative however between the fans and AG it appears that from expectations the Coach has set, they are not being met.

Most importantly the Coach has been waiting for some significant steps forward that it appears Coach hasn't seen yet. AT least that's my take reading some newspaper comments from the Coach.

[Furio]

In the pregame show they said Kaleb had an ankle injury that was the reason
he did not suit up for the games in the bahamas. He was cleared for the
W. Michigan game. Also while he was suspended he did not practice with
the team. So he is way behind.
In the coaches post game interview AG said the flu (virus) that Brea had has
spread to Tyrone Baker and Ricardo Greer

https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...-067204f7c01d/

[NJFlyr71]

Originally Posted by Furio In the pregame show they said Kaleb had an ankle injury that was the reason he did not suit up for the games in the bahamas. He was cleared for the W. Michigan game. Also while he was suspended he did not practice with the team. So he is way behind. In the coaches post game interview AG said the flu (virus) that Brea had has spread to Tyrone Baker and Ricardo Greer https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...-067204f7c01d/

Snake bit team history so far this year .... compared to the preseason hype all these injuries and illnesses sure suck !!!!

[pmcmullen]

Originally Posted by Furio In the pregame show they said Kaleb had an ankle injury that was the reason he did not suit up for the games in the bahamas. He was cleared for the W. Michigan game. Also while he was suspended he did not practice with the team. So he is way behind. In the coaches post game interview AG said the flu (virus) that Brea had has spread to Tyrone Baker and Ricardo Greer https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...-067204f7c01d/

Thank you. I must have missed that part getting the family to the car for the game, driving, etc. I'm actually refreshed to hear something like this where perhaps there's hope he'll still pan out?? Seems we'll have plenty of available minutes for quite some time.

[lhsgolf19]

Thought he was sick but Sadly, he's suspended again

David Jablonski
@DavidPJablonski
Kaleb Washington was not at the game. Anthony Grant said he's suspended again for a violation of team rules and not meeting the standards of the program. "We had a setback," Grant said.

[jack72]

Time to cut our losses and recruit someone else.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 Thought he was sick but Sadly, he's suspended again David Jablonski @DavidPJablonski Kaleb Washington was not at the game. Anthony Grant said he's suspended again for a violation of team rules and not meeting the standards of the program. "We had a setback," Grant said.

Wow. Played Wednesday, game ended around 10pm. Today's game started at 2:00pm. What in the heck could he have done within 64 hours to get his butt suspended again??? And I'm going to guess that 24 of those hours were spent sleeping.

[OregonMike]

Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 Kaleb may turn out similar to Kostas in the sense that he started academics last year and has found a low level of desire to be involved with studying in the class. Just a thought. Some have transitional issues in the higher level of commitment needed in a college setting. HS can be a much more forgiving environment. Complete conjecture on my part. I have known of people after their first year at UD to question whether they should have come back in their second year. Some fought through it, continuing on while another left mid-year. It is not a failing .... it is just a choice having to be made by the individual as to who they are and what they want. Whatever he chooses may it work out the best for him.

"...the class?" ???

There were 30 from my Philly area catholic HS enroll as freshman in 1969. Maybe a dozen of us graduated. The others didn't flunk out. Dayton and Philly were different ("the pizza sucks here and you can't get a hoagie"). Some were homesick. Some went home and graduated elsewhere. Some just weren't into school (and that was during Vietnam when you could get drafted). A few scholarship students on my dorm floor got the first C or D (maybe F if they took Econ 101 from DF Ou) of their entire life and didn't return for the 2nd semester. I was happy with my 2.8. I thought of transferring (I hated the dorm) but stuck it out and graduated.

[Jeff]

First, I hope it's not trouble - as in drugs or something illegal. Second, it appears AG is still throwing him a lifeline. Kale's suspended, not dismissed from the team. Whatever it is, I hope the kid can rebound and not waste an opportunity to at least get a good education.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Jeff First, I hope it's not trouble - as in drugs or something illegal. Second, it appears AG is still throwing him a lifeline. Kale's suspended, not dismissed from the team. Whatever it is, I hope the kid can rebound and not waste an opportunity to at least get a good education.

If it were drugs, he'd be gone yesterday I believe. I did a quick google on failing a drug test and it pretty much means expulsion from athletics for the remainder of the season. I'm also going to guess, that anything drug related found without a drug test carries the same penalty from within the school or NCAA if school has to report it which I'm sure they would.

If it's not academics(which I doubt since he was eligible on Wed but not 62 hours later) it's got to be breaking team rules which could deal with curfews, missing or late for practices or who knows, drinking alcohol or something.

[Jack D]

He gone

[FlyingArrow]

It could be just skipping class, if there's a rule about that.

[OSU Flyer]

I would have to think of it was something major AG would just dismiss him. He doesn’t seem like the type to play around
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[TommyGola]

There has been something wrong between this recruit and Coach Grant since day one. The notion of a top-150 recruit rarely seeing the court with this program is unthinkable. Washington will be gone by the end of the year, if in fact he is not gone already.

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by TommyGola There has been something wrong between this recruit and Coach Grant since day one. The notion of a top-150 recruit rarely seeing the court with this program is unthinkable. Washington will be gone by the end of the year, if in fact he is not gone already.

Yes, but what's really, really puzzling is the fact he came back this year after last. So it's really difficult to believe this is just a continuation of problem that started November 2021 or earlier.

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 Yes, but what's really, really puzzling is the fact he came back this year after last. So it's really difficult to believe this is just a continuation of problem that started November 2021 or earlier.

I'm in the dark as much as anyone, but this just seems like repeated minor infractions. And probably the same one, too. Repeatedly late to practice. Or completely skipping practice if he's oversleeping. Or skipping class. Or missing curfew. Or failure to follow some procedural step that he personally thinks is unnecessary. The sort of thing that can't be ignored, but theoretically could be easily corrected.

[N2663R]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow I'm in the dark as much as anyone, but this just seems like repeated minor infractions. And probably the same one, too. Repeatedly late to practice. Or completely skipping practice if he's oversleeping. Or skipping class. Or missing curfew. Or failure to follow some procedural step that he personally thinks is unnecessary. The sort of thing that can't be ignored, but theoretically could be easily corrected.

At this point, regardless of the infraction(s), this needs to be corrected in short order. This team has way too many other issues to deal with this season. This is one distraction they don't need.

[hawkoooo]

Well, if you were struggling with grades early, then got things together in order to be reinstated, couldn't it just be that his final grades for this semester are not up to par and thus, he is suspended again?

I don't think they'd kick a player completely off the team for grades unless the school simply said he cannot continue, hence the repeat suspensions.

[Alberto Strasse]

like he's never been to the weight room.

[CoffeeCan]

I heard he demanded an extra Chicken Cutlet at KU.

[CJ2etc]

KW is an enigma . IIRC he was a top 100 recruit. I watch him in warm-ups and the kid just drains everything - beautiful stroke. I saw him hit 10 in a row 5 ft behind the 3 pt line and none even touched iron. But his body language is horrible and he looks like he doesn't even know where the weight room or the cafeteria are. I know I was the best shooter on my 7th grade team until someone put a hand within 10 ft of my face but the kids got a beautiful stroke and I would love to see what he's capable of if he could just get his head out of his own butt and get w the program. Really wasting opportunities

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by CJ2etc KW is an enigma . IIRC he was a top 100 recruit. I watch him in warm-ups and the kid just drains everything - beautiful stroke. I saw him hit 10 in a row 5 ft behind the 3 pt line and none even touched iron. But his body language is horrible and he looks like he doesn't even know where the weight room or the cafeteria are. I know I was the best shooter on my 7th grade team until someone put a hand within 10 ft of my face but the kids got a beautiful stroke and I would love to see what he's capable of if he could just get his head out of his own butt and get w the program. Really wasting opportunities

Yep, and his passing within traffic is pretty sweet too.

I noticed in the game against V-Tech, when he was in there and on offense, he was stationary right of the key until the offense move toward the right. And I mean stationary, he wasn't moving his feet at all. I find that difficult to believe that's what he's been instructed to do. It looked 100 percent lazy and disengaged to me but again, maybe that's his assignment?

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by Smitty10 If it were drugs, he'd be gone yesterday I believe. I did a quick google on failing a drug test and it pretty much means expulsion from athletics for the remainder of the season. I'm also going to guess, that anything drug related found without a drug test carries the same penalty from within the school or NCAA if school has to report it which I'm sure they would. If it's not academics(which I doubt since he was eligible on Wed but not 62 hours later) it's got to be breaking team rules which could deal with curfews, missing or late for practices or who knows, drinking alcohol or something.

You'd be surprised...oh were the days of just a coach ago where walkon's would drop for the "star" players. Oh was the day where an unannounced drug test had so many people **** hot that the managers and walkon's would have been starting to put 5 on the court. Granted...it was at the beginning of the previous leaders regime, but UD wasn't exempt from it or above it. This goes back to the lack of accountability Archie Miller era which is why many were happy to see him gone.

[shocka43]

I would venture to say he is gone at Christmas break. They will let him complete his academic grading period and he will be dueces.

Just my 2 cents. You lose credibility putting someone on multiple suspensions...at what point to they warrant a separation?

[TXFlyerFan]

Originally Posted by shocka43 I would venture to say he is gone at Christmas break. They will let him complete his academic grading period and he will be dueces. Just my 2 cents. You lose credibility putting someone on multiple suspensions...at what point to they warrant a separation?

Still have to believe it depends on exactly what it is, but I don't disagree with your overall assessment of the impact. To have to publicly announce a second suspension pretty likely means you're chalked. Well, it's not like he didn't have his chances, so ultimately, no one to blame but himself.

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan Still have to believe it depends on exactly what it is, but I don't disagree with your overall assessment of the impact. To have to publicly announce a second suspension pretty likely means you're chalked. Well, it's not like he didn't have his chances, so ultimately, no one to blame but himself.

I still think it's something minor that they hope to work through. If he was going to be dismissed, why wait? He can be off the team and still finish the semester.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by shocka43 This goes back to the lack of accountability Archie Miller era which is why many were happy to see him gone.

Ok, so why didn't they reign Archie in then? I can believe that there was some lack of accountability, but UD didn't have to allow those things to go on unchecked. UD is the boss, not Archie, they could've suspended Archie if they had to. I suppose Archie might have gotten angry and left then. I don't think Archie would have done that, but if he did, then oh well, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[steve]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow I still think it's something minor that they hope to work through. If he was going to be dismissed, why wait? He can be off the team and still finish the semester.

No idea but just guessing that maybe AG is just being kind here and not tossing him out on the street with break coming up.

[OSU Flyer]

Was he at the Wyoming game?
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