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  #1  
Old 11-30-2022, 10:09 PM
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WMU Game Ė Post Mali / Elvis Era Begins

Well, at least for a while.

Whoís the star? Who let opportunity gallop away?

Did AG play enough zone & press to make an entire thread happy? How did we pull it off without Kaleb Washington?

Will we EVER be able to hit Fín threes, and is Camara morphing into the next Devin Oliver of 3 point shooting?

Saddle up and sing your praises or vent your displeasure.
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Old 11-30-2022, 10:19 PM
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A triumph in mediocrity!
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Old 11-30-2022, 10:19 PM
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Deuce and Camara 15 for 20 (75%) from the field..

everyone not named Deuce and Camara
6 for 24 (25%) from the field...

Camara 2 for 2 from 3pt range
everyone else 1 for 14 from 3 pt range...

co players of the game Deuce and Camara

I am worried
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Old 11-30-2022, 10:21 PM
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First, all thoughts should be asterisked with "WMU stinks".

Mike looked good at the point. The ball moved more and was dribbled less. Couldn't buy a three all night, and looked a little tired in the middle of the 2nd half. Stamina will be an issue all year unless Mali or Elvis come back.

Uhl gave 5 solid minutes of time - didnt hurt the team.

Zimi provided 16 minutes of nothingness.

Blakney was invisible until the final 2 minutes.....against inferior talent.

Amzil with a steady 7 points in each half.

Once Holmes shoots better from the line - thoroughbred.

Camara is our new 3 point sniper. He (and Mike) just need to stay out of foul trouble. When Camara is in the game, things open up for him and Holmes. Difficult twosome on both ends for most teams.
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  #5  
Old 11-30-2022, 10:22 PM
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Back to work, now. That whole game was an accident waiting to happen.

Camara saved our bacon.
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  #6  
Old 11-30-2022, 10:30 PM
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Couldnít see the game. Just heard it. Observations from listening to Larry and Keith:

-Deuce is better than anyone else his size or smaller. If he can put on another 10-15 pounds of muscle and develop a reliable midrange jumper, heíll be ready for the next level.

-Tou is the Swiss Army Knife of this outfit. Sort of a combination of Mikesell and Landers, but maybe not as consistent.

-Mike is undoubtedly still a frosh. That said, heís also undoubtedly talented with a high ceiling. Looking forward to watching him develop over the next few years.

-Mus canít be relied upon game-in and game-out for scoring. That said, heís pretty fundamentally sound, and finds ways to make a contribution when his shot isnít falling.

There are still a number of unknowns. Will Zimi regain his 2020-21 form? Will RJ regain his 2021-22 form? How long will it take for Koby to get back to full strength? Those questions werenít answered tonight, but there were signs of hope.

My $0.02 worth, as someone who could only hear it, not see it.
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  #7  
Old 11-30-2022, 11:05 PM
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Did anyone else laugh in the pregame content when the talking heads were saying some positive comments about Camara, but the camera guy was tracking a close-up of Zimi?

Funny stuff...
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  #8  
Old 11-30-2022, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SC_Flyer View Post
Did anyone else laugh in the pregame content when the talking heads were saying some positive comments about Camara, but the camera guy was tracking a close-up of Zimi?

Funny stuff...
That was really bad. I think they had the two players confused.
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  #9  
Old 11-30-2022, 11:16 PM
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It's because Camara didn't wear his headband today.
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Old 11-30-2022, 11:24 PM
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If you told me before the game Mike, Amzil and Brea would go a combined 5/21 I would have guessed it was a single digit win
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  #11  
Old 11-30-2022, 11:25 PM
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2 points from the bench tonight... ouch.

Credit to Holmes... he was working hard inside (think I heard he was fouled 11 times).

Enjoyed Mike's 8 assists (with a couple of "no looks").
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2022, 08:41 AM
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Who's missing with comments after the game? I guess we only get those people after losses...
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2022, 09:47 AM
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I was at the game and must say that Mike actually played the point better than either Mali or Elvis has done this year. He had 8 assists, but some awful turnovers (5). At least he had that pass-first mentality that has been lacking. The glue on this team is Camara. When he is off the court, our defense and rebounding decline precipitously. In my view, he is our best player so far this year. Uhl played the point with no problem and his defense was acceptable. Brea is obviously playing far less than his norm given his injury and illness. Holmes is definitely a load in the paint on both ends of the court. RJ Blakney struggles with ball handling and has not hit a three in several games. Mustapha played a solid game, but he needs to be wide-open for his three ball shot, which is good when in such a situation. In a game with a weak opponent like WM, it is difficult to gage this team at this juncture.
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:27 AM
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To me the biggest thing tonight, against bad competition or not, was the better pace of our offense. I have to believe Mike had a lot to do with that. He had a few freshmen moments but all in all he ran the offense very well.

I just wonder if he plays point most of his career if it will stifle his scoring in any way, because he also seems like he could grow into a big-time scorer too. I guess it's a good problem to have.
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Who's missing with comments after the game? I guess we only get those people after losses...
only after losses....
from their perceived position of strength
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:30 AM
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I like working through the paint on offense. I think it unsettles a defense. It's an even smarter move when Holmes is the dude you're dumping it into. He's likely our most consistent offensive weapon.

A healthy dose of Holmes is warranted, but it's too much right now. We're struggling to find an identity on offense, because everything is so stagnant. We force it down low, and players stand, waiting for Holmes to survey and distribute or wheel toward the basket. He's a reasonably good passer out of the post, but he's not a guy I necessarily need to run 80% of the offense through. We need some fluidity and movement. We need some variety. We need to get others more involved.

I caveat all this with: Grant and staff know exponentially more about basketball offense than I do, but even to my untrained eye, the offense is slow and predictable.
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by flyer016 View Post
I like working through the paint on offense. I think it unsettles a defense. It's an even smarter move when Holmes is the dude you're dumping it into. He's likely our most consistent offensive weapon.

A healthy dose of Holmes is warranted, but it's too much right now. We're struggling to find an identity on offense, because everything is so stagnant. We force it down low, and players stand, waiting for Holmes to survey and distribute or wheel toward the basket. He's a reasonably good passer out of the post, but he's not a guy I necessarily need to run 80% of the offense through. We need some fluidity and movement. We need some variety. We need to get others more involved.

I caveat all this with: Grant and staff know exponentially more about basketball offense than I do, but even to my untrained eye, the offense is slow and predictable.
I think the general coaching mentality of this game was "We're going to make sure that DaRon gets plenty of touches". He's definitely going to be facing double and triple teams until his teammates can prove to all the opposition that they can punish from outside the 3 line. Spacing seemed a little congested on the outside when he did get doubled down low but he isn't a black hole. Once those outside shots start to fall, and I think they will, the offense will look much more fluid. Overall, passing seemed to be more of an emphasis but still not as crisp as it could be. I thought Mike did a great job; his assist to turnover ratio will improve. I also thought Uhl did a really good job spelling Mike. It's a start.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
I think the general coaching mentality of this game was "We're going to make sure that DaRon gets plenty of touches". He's definitely going to be facing double and triple teams until his teammates can prove to all the opposition that they can punish from outside the 3 line. Spacing seemed a little congested on the outside when he did get doubled down low but he isn't a black hole. Once those outside shots start to fall, and I think they will, the offense will look much more fluid. Overall, passing seemed to be more of an emphasis but still not as crisp as it could be. I thought Mike did a great job; his assist to turnover ratio will improve. I also thought Uhl did a really good job spelling Mike. It's a start.
Agree - and per 3 pt shooting - most were uncontested 3's we just missed. Those will start falling. Good news is we are getting uncontested 3's which means the ball is moving.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
I was at the game and must say that Mike actually played the point better than either Mali or Elvis has done this year. He had 8 assists, but some awful turnovers (5). At least he had that pass-first mentality that has been lacking. The glue on this team is Camara. When he is off the court, our defense and rebounding decline precipitously. In my view, he is our best player so far this year. Uhl played the point with no problem and his defense was acceptable. Brea is obviously playing far less than his norm given his injury and illness. Holmes is definitely a load in the paint on both ends of the court. RJ Blakney struggles with ball handling and has not hit a three in several games. Mustapha played a solid game, but he needs to be wide-open for his three ball shot, which is good when in such a situation. In a game with a weak opponent like WM, it is difficult to gage this team at this juncture.
Great observations.
- Glad that Uhl is serviceable, we will need that - must be something in his genes.
- Brea is still rusty. should be back to 100% by A10 action.
- Mike is going to make freshman mistakes - they all do. My question is on his fouling. That could become an issue that could cause us to lose games. Is there something that he is doing consistently that can be corrected???
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Old 12-01-2022, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by steverino015 View Post
only after losses....
from their perceived position of strength
This is such a cringe take. I've been posting on this board for 17 years, win lose or draw.

I put this kind of nonsense right up there with thinking that certain posters actually root for the team to lose.
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Old 12-01-2022, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel View Post
2 points from the bench tonight... ouch.

Credit to Holmes... he was working hard inside (think I heard he was fouled 11 times).

Enjoyed Mike's 8 assists (with a couple of "no looks").
Slight correction, from listening to Larry and Keith: defenders were called for 11 fouls while guarding Holmes. I know I heard at least 3 or 4 ďDeuce got hammered, but no foul was calledĒ reports on the broadcast.
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Old 12-01-2022, 01:06 PM
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We are not a very good team right now.


Defense may win championships, but Offense wins games. Right now, we won't get to a championship with the offense we have.


Mike has a very nice skill set, but is only in his eighth collegiate game. It shows.


Hack-a-Shaq(Ron) is a viable strategy for our opponents.


Our 3pt shooting is roughly equivalent to a turnover right now.


That should have been a 40 point blow out and it was in single digits mid-way through the second half. We will get curb stomped by good teams.
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Old 12-01-2022, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Viperstick View Post
We are not a very good team right now.


Defense may win championships, but Offense wins games. Right now, we won't get to a championship with the offense we have.


Mike has a very nice skill set, but is only in his eighth collegiate game. It shows.


Hack-a-Shaq(Ron) is a viable strategy for our opponents.


Our 3pt shooting is roughly equivalent to a turnover right now.


That should have been a 40 point blow out and it was in single digits mid-way through the second half. We will get curb stomped by good teams.
Canít argue with any of this. To me the key is finding confidence and consistency with shooting 3s. Even Mike has lost his confidence. RJs stroke is too good to be shooting so abysmally. If / when the 3s fall the offense will improve dramatically instantly.
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Old 12-01-2022, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
This is such a cringe take. I've been posting on this board for 17 years, win lose or draw.

I put this kind of nonsense right up there with thinking that certain posters actually root for the team to lose.
Well then I would guess he isn't talking about you. There are people on this board who only post to advocate the firing of the coach after a loss. That is not a debatable point.
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Old 12-01-2022, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyers98 View Post
Well then I would guess he isn't talking about you. There are people on this board who only post to advocate the firing of the coach after a loss. That is not a debatable point.
Right. There are absolutely some people that threw their rose-colored glasses in the trash and post some skepticism. If you're watching the team right now, some of that should be expected.

My guess is this is pointed at the few that quite literally LIVE in some pessimistic state of misery since they are factually and provably not around until and unless the team struggles.
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Old 12-01-2022, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
Canít argue with any of this. To me the key is finding confidence and consistency with shooting 3s. Even Mike has lost his confidence. RJs stroke is too good to be shooting so abysmally. If / when the 3s fall the offense will improve dramatically instantly.
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Thing is, weíre getting really good looks. The shots just arenít falling from deep. With the way we play D, if we shoot just a reasonable percentage (32-35%) from the 3 we will win a lot of games.
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Old 12-01-2022, 03:02 PM
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Those expecting the three-point shooting to come around, where do you anticipate this coming from?

Three-point shooting was never going to be the team's strength. Most of any expected three-point prowess was tied to Brea and Elvis showing out from deep, and some low volume, high percentage shooting from Mali. I think there's always been hope Amzil would return to freshman form, and thus far that's about the only positive sign.

Amzil is already ahead of his career percentage (38% this year, 34% career). Blakney has shot poorly this year (10%), but he's never been more than fairly good (~35%). Camara has never shown an ability to shoot from range (career 27%). Sharavjamts's form looks good to the eye, but we've yet to see it go in with any consistency (and in fact the results looked bad at times). Not a lot of hope for Nwokeji either (career 29%).

Brea's really the only hope at this point. He's been pretty streaky in the past, but on the whole has shown he can knock down shots. He's going to have to fully step into a shotmaker role. He certainly looked the part last year, but he's going to have to do so as a focal point of the offense if this team is even going to compete for the A10 crown.
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Old 12-01-2022, 03:52 PM
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Due to prior commitments I heard only the last ~10 minutes or so on the olde internet radio ...

Was happy the team won ... but against a inferior team (that shot worst then we did) I don't know what the Flyers would have done against A10 competition . . .

But like they say, "A Win is a Win, is a Win!".
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Old 12-01-2022, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by flyer016 View Post
Those expecting the three-point shooting to come around, where do you anticipate this coming from?

Three-point shooting was never going to be the team's strength. Most of any expected three-point prowess was tied to Brea and Elvis showing out from deep, and some low volume, high percentage shooting from Mali. I think there's always been hope Amzil would return to freshman form, and thus far that's about the only positive sign.

Amzil is already ahead of his career percentage (38% this year, 34% career). Blakney has shot poorly this year (10%), but he's never been more than fairly good (~35%). Camara has never shown an ability to shoot from range (career 27%). Sharavjamts's form looks good to the eye, but we've yet to see it go in with any consistency (and in fact the results looked bad at times). Not a lot of hope for Nwokeji either (career 29%).

Brea's really the only hope at this point. He's been pretty streaky in the past, but on the whole has shown he can knock down shots. He's going to have to fully step into a shotmaker role. He certainly looked the part last year, but he's going to have to do so as a focal point of the offense if this team is even going to compete for the A10 crown.
I think folks just expect that "math is gonna math" and the law of averages or "progression to the mean" as Swampy(?) cleverly put it will win out. Maybe it won't but I generally lose when I bet against math.
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Old 12-01-2022, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by flyer016 View Post
Those expecting the three-point shooting to come around, where do you anticipate this coming from?

Three-point shooting was never going to be the team's strength. Most of any expected three-point prowess was tied to Brea and Elvis showing out from deep, and some low volume, high percentage shooting from Mali. I think there's always been hope Amzil would return to freshman form, and thus far that's about the only positive sign.

Amzil is already ahead of his career percentage (38% this year, 34% career). Blakney has shot poorly this year (10%), but he's never been more than fairly good (~35%). Camara has never shown an ability to shoot from range (career 27%). Sharavjamts's form looks good to the eye, but we've yet to see it go in with any consistency (and in fact the results looked bad at times). Not a lot of hope for Nwokeji either (career 29%).

Brea's really the only hope at this point. He's been pretty streaky in the past, but on the whole has shown he can knock down shots. He's going to have to fully step into a shotmaker role. He certainly looked the part last year, but he's going to have to do so as a focal point of the offense if this team is even going to compete for the A10 crown.
I wouldn't count Camara out as a 3 pt. shooter. He was 43% (18-41) in A10 play last year. He had 5 games with 2 or more.More of an opportunistic 3 shooter which can also move a BIG defender away from the bucket creating more space for Holmes.
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Old 12-01-2022, 04:44 PM
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At best, Camara is the kind of guy that I don't mind launching one if he's somehow forgotten off a pick or something and is left standing out there wide open. We should never run a play to open him up behind the arc, he should not shoot them if he's covered/rushed/cockeyed, or basically anything other than coincidentally wide open, squared up, with time to pack lunch before letting it fly.

That's it.

But that's true for much of this team, yet somehow we're passing around the perimeter chucking threes like they are on blue light special.
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Old 12-01-2022, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen View Post
At best, Camara is the kind of guy that I don't mind launching one if he's somehow forgotten off a pick or something and is left standing out there wide open. We should never run a play to open him up behind the arc, he should not shoot them if he's covered/rushed/cockeyed, or basically anything other than coincidentally wide open, squared up, with time to pack lunch before letting it fly.

That's it.

But that's true for much of this team, yet somehow we're passing around the perimeter chucking threes like they are on blue light special.
Unfortunately, we have plenty of other players that are wide open, squared up, with time to pack lunch before letting it fly and can't hit them. I'll take the 43%..
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Old 12-01-2022, 04:52 PM
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I donít think anyone expected great 3 pointing shooting but sub 20% leaves a ton of room for progress that would help immensely.

I disagree though as Mike has an incredible shot and deep range. RJ may have the best stroke on the team. His shot is good enough to be a threat and to shoot upper 30s. Elvis to me was way too streaky last year. When he was on he was unconscious but feel as though those games were too few and far between.
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Old 12-01-2022, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
Elvis to me was way too streaky last year. When he was on he was unconscious but feel as though those games were too few and far between.
Agree. He's also a loose cannon even when they aren't falling. I understand that really good, pure shooters keep shooting through slumps, but I haven't seen enough evidence to make that claim. A less pure shooter should work on being a smarter player, realizing it's not their night while looking for other ways to contribute. See the Wisconsin game where he was 1-7 for three. He was then 6-10 from inside the arc. I seem to recall a few of his threes in this game being ill-advised too!
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Old 12-01-2022, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by pmcmullen View Post
At best, Camara is the kind of guy that I don't mind launching one if he's somehow forgotten off a pick or something and is left standing out there wide open. We should never run a play to open him up behind the arc, he should not shoot them if he's covered/rushed/cockeyed, or basically anything other than coincidentally wide open, squared up, with time to pack lunch before letting it fly.

That's it.

But that's true for much of this team, yet somehow we're passing around the perimeter chucking threes like they are on blue light special.
Thatís just not true. If anything we are making a concerted effort to get the ball inside to Holmes and Camara, but when they pack it in on D you get wide open looks from outside and you have to take those.
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Old 12-01-2022, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by flyer016 View Post
Those expecting the three-point shooting to come around, where do you anticipate this coming from?

Three-point shooting was never going to be the team's strength. Most of any expected three-point prowess was tied to Brea and Elvis showing out from deep, and some low volume, high percentage shooting from Mali. I think there's always been hope Amzil would return to freshman form, and thus far that's about the only positive sign.

Amzil is already ahead of his career percentage (38% this year, 34% career). Blakney has shot poorly this year (10%), but he's never been more than fairly good (~35%). Camara has never shown an ability to shoot from range (career 27%). Sharavjamts's form looks good to the eye, but we've yet to see it go in with any consistency (and in fact the results looked bad at times). Not a lot of hope for Nwokeji either (career 29%).

Brea's really the only hope at this point. He's been pretty streaky in the past, but on the whole has shown he can knock down shots. He's going to have to fully step into a shotmaker role. He certainly looked the part last year, but he's going to have to do so as a focal point of the offense if this team is even going to compete for the A10 crown.
They're 10% below last year's season average, and added MM who appears to be a decent 3 pt shooter despite last night so you'd think it would progress to the mean

And for the clowns asking where the "negative" (I prefer "realistic") people are after a win, not sure what to say about this game aside from they beat a terrible team at home where the game was closer than the final score. Most of the 2nd half was an 8-10 point lead after getting out to a 16-3 lead
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Old 12-01-2022, 07:39 PM
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[QUOTE=hawkoooo;710103]This is such a cringe take. I've been posting on this board for 17 years, win lose or draw.

I put this kind of nonsense right up there with thinking that certain posters actually root for the team to lose.[/QUO

the ones I am addressing do not show up after a win....
nothing good to say, you should know who I am speaking of,
no road sign is necessary.....

now for the other

I asked you to wish Elvis and Mali well....
still waiting...
wish them well, and we're good...
six words: I wish Elvis and Mali well
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Old 12-01-2022, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
I donít think anyone expected great 3 pointing shooting but sub 20% leaves a ton of room for progress that would help immensely.

I disagree though as Mike has an incredible shot and deep range. RJ may have the best stroke on the team. His shot is good enough to be a threat and to shoot upper 30s. Elvis to me was way too streaky last year. When he was on he was unconscious but feel as though those games were too few and far between.
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Mike just needs to create separation off the dribble. When he's open his form looks Excellent
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Old 12-01-2022, 08:20 PM
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I wish Mali and Elvis well.

So we have Holmes... who if he plays just badly enough this year (just enough to decide to stick around another year) has a chance to be the best big Dayton has ever had. I think he'll need to stay another year to earn that title. Regardless, he's an obvious strength even if he's had a couple of bad games.

And we have Toumani, who at times plays better than Holmes. If his 2/2 on threes from last game extends all year long, he's a complete package.

Mike needs to clean up some freshman mistakes, but he's already good enough to be a solid starter for us at either PG or as a forward. And for the season, his 3pt shooting is fine.

Amzil is the only consistent 3pt shooter this year besides Mike. (Amzil and Mike are still shooting okay for the season despite their combined 1-11 against WMU.)

And beyond that... we're getting nothing. We're four deep right now. Elvis and and Mali being hurt is painful, but they weren't even helping that much when they were playing.

Somebody needs to step up. Check that, at least 3 somebodies, and hopefully 4. But then... with the injuries and unused scholarships that's pretty much everybody. Brea, Zimi, Blakney, Washington, Amaefule - only one of them are allowed to be mediocre. And one needs to play well enough to demand the 5th starter slot.
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Old 12-01-2022, 09:16 PM
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Well said
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Old 12-02-2022, 01:23 AM
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[QUOTE=steverino015;710188]
Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
This is such a cringe take. I've been posting on this board for 17 years, win lose or draw.

I put this kind of nonsense right up there with thinking that certain posters actually root for the team to lose.[/QUO

the ones I am addressing do not show up after a win....
nothing good to say, you should know who I am speaking of,
no road sign is necessary.....

now for the other

I asked you to wish Elvis and Mali well....
still waiting...
wish them well, and we're good...
six words: I wish Elvis and Mali well
Whats there to say? It was an ugly win but a win is a win. Shouldn’t have been as close as it got against that team but why do you expect everyone to be pessimistic all the time? Not everything has to be the world is burning or AG is the all time greatest coach. Maybe you can also find that middle ground
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Old 12-02-2022, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
This is such a cringe take. I've been posting on this board for 17 years, win lose or draw.

I put this kind of nonsense right up there with thinking that certain posters actually root for the team to lose.
There's a handy tool to that allows anyone to search posts by any individual. If you take the time to look, you can see who claims to be balanced vs. what they actually post, and draw your own conclusions.

As a note, there's clearly three groups - positive, negative, and those that attack others based on opinion.
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Old 12-02-2022, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyingArrow View Post
So we have Holmes... who if he plays just badly enough this year (just enough to decide to stick around another year) has a chance to be the best big Dayton has ever had. I think he'll need to stay another year to earn that title. Regardless, he's an obvious strength even if he's had a couple of bad games.
Let me preface this by saying I like Holmes a lot and am glad we have him on our team. I just don't see how he is anywhere close to ready for the NBA next year.

He is still very weak, rarely finishes through contact for an and one, gets the ball knocked out of his hands quite often, and gets moved off of his spot to difficult scoring positions (which somehow, he still makes at a good clip).

He has no outside game, and by outside I mean anything beyond 8 feet.

His defense is great in the paint but I'm not sure he'll be able to cover today's NBA big who often play on the perimeter.

He needs to stay for another year to continue to mature and take his game to another level which is a good thing for UD fans in the long run.
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Old 12-02-2022, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Let me preface this by saying I like Holmes a lot and am glad we have him on our team. I just don't see how he is anywhere close to ready for the NBA next year.

He is still very weak, rarely finishes through contact for an and one, gets the ball knocked out of his hands quite often, and gets moved off of his spot to difficult scoring positions (which somehow, he still makes at a good clip).

He has no outside game, and by outside I mean anything beyond 8 feet.

His defense is great in the paint but I'm not sure he'll be able to cover today's NBA big who often play on the perimeter.

He needs to stay for another year to continue to mature and take his game to another level which is a good thing for UD fans in the long run.
Agreed. There's a lot of season left, and I think Holmes is an improved player, but it looks more along the margins rather than adding new skills or really expanding his game. Thus far, I think he moved from a B- prospect to B (or B to B+). (The point isn't the grade itself, it's the small uptick I'm noting).)

If anything, I think the light improvement probably knocks his NBA prospects down a bit. They want to see potential and continued upward trajectory.

I wonder if moving to a blue blood program becomes a possibility if the NBA isn't. New scenery, new coaches, fresh exposure. In the present climate, good players jumping to bigger programs will always be a potential issue for the Flyers, but a just-shy-of-the-NBA Holmes would seem especially primed for the opportunity.
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Old 12-02-2022, 10:48 AM
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The good news is, we have a run of buy games and Va Tech on the road so that gives the team some time to figure out what the post Mali/ Elvis roles are. While this isn't a great three point team, I think we are better than what we have seen thus far. Hopefully a couple of somebodies get on a hot streak soon. This season is shaping up to be a frustrating one where they fall short of expectations due to injuries, but you never know. We could be that team that underachieves most of the season and comes together late. I keep waiting for that A-10 tournament win somewhere other than at home.
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  #46  
Old 12-02-2022, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by zmz723 View Post
They're 10% below last year's season average, and added MM who appears to be a decent 3 pt shooter despite last night so you'd think it would progress to the mean

And for the clowns asking where the "negative" (I prefer "realistic") people are after a win, not sure what to say about this game aside from they beat a terrible team at home where the game was closer than the final score. Most of the 2nd half was an 8-10 point lead after getting out to a 16-3 lead
No doubt some regression is likely, but removing Elvis and Smith--two of the better shooters--suggest the full 10 percentage points aren't likely coming back. And I like Sharavjamts's form as much as anybody and read the scouting reports about being a sharp-shooter, but until those shots start falling I'm not assuming he's anything. (I remember four years of Jimmy Binnie's sharp-shooting prowess.)

I think a lot of the team's success this year rides on Brea going from top sixth man to legit first or second team all conference. We've seen him excel as a shotmaker, but can he do it with increased volume?
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  #47  
Old 12-02-2022, 12:30 PM
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Virginia Tech will be a good test for us post Mali/Elvis
They have one of the best players in the ACC,
Justyn Mutts. very good all around skill level.
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  #48  
Old 12-02-2022, 12:43 PM
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Congrats to Mike

for his 8 assists and getting the ball to the right players (Deuce and Camera). He's the best offensive PG we have on the team right now.
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  #49  
Old 12-02-2022, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by flyer016 View Post
No doubt some regression is likely, but removing Elvis and Smith--two of the better shooters--suggest the full 10 percentage points aren't likely coming back. And I like Sharavjamts's form as much as anybody and read the scouting reports about being a sharp-shooter, but until those shots start falling I'm not assuming he's anything. (I remember four years of Jimmy Binnie's sharp-shooting prowess.)

I think a lot of the team's success this year rides on Brea going from top sixth man to legit first or second team all conference. We've seen him excel as a shotmaker, but can he do it with increased volume?
Fixed it for you:

No doubt some regression is likely, but removing Elvis--one of the better shooters.
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Old 12-02-2022, 01:47 PM
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Elvis has stretches where he looks like one of the best guards UD has had this century but then has some that leave you scratching your head
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  #51  
Old 12-02-2022, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Elvis has stretches where he looks like one of the best guards UD has had this century but then has some that leave you scratching your head
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Elvis. Thought of as no defense all offense. Kyle Davis, thought of as all defense and no offense. Now, go compare their offensive stats and tell me who you'd rather depend on day in and day out to give you consistency in their overall game.

To me Elvis is a starter by default.
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  #52  
Old 12-02-2022, 02:36 PM
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Mike passes to advance the ball. He rarely dribbled across half court if there was an opportunity to pass ahead.
Take the outlet pass. Look up the floor. Advance the ball.
Faster tempo. More pressure on the defense. Offense flows.

Mali and Kobe's first instinct seems to be to put the ball on the floor.
Take the outlet pass. Start dribbling. Look up the floor.
Slower tempo. Defenses gets time to get into position. Offense starts from standing still.
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  #53  
Old 12-02-2022, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Elvis. Thought of as no defense all offense. Kyle Davis, thought of as all defense and no offense. Now, go compare their offensive stats and tell me who you'd rather depend on day in and day out to give you consistency in their overall game.

To me Elvis is a starter by default.
Kyle Davis no doubt
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  #54  
Old 12-02-2022, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Let me preface this by saying I like Holmes a lot and am glad we have him on our team. I just don't see how he is anywhere close to ready for the NBA next year.

He is still very weak, rarely finishes through contact for an and one, gets the ball knocked out of his hands quite often, and gets moved off of his spot to difficult scoring positions (which somehow, he still makes at a good clip).

He has no outside game, and by outside I mean anything beyond 8 feet.

His defense is great in the paint but I'm not sure he'll be able to cover today's NBA big who often play on the perimeter.

He needs to stay for another year to continue to mature and take his game to another level which is a good thing for UD fans in the long run.
There's also a third door where he could transfer to a bigger program if he feels he isn't developing how he should at UD
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  #55  
Old 12-02-2022, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MrFlyerFanatic View Post
Mike passes to advance the ball. He rarely dribbled across half court if there was an opportunity to pass ahead.
Take the outlet pass. Look up the floor. Advance the ball.
Faster tempo. More pressure on the defense. Offense flows.

Mali and Kobe's first instinct seems to be to put the ball on the floor.
Take the outlet pass. Start dribbling. Look up the floor.
Slower tempo. Defenses gets time to get into position. Offense starts from standing still.

Spot on. Noticed the uptempo during the last game, but couldn't put my finger on it. Great observation. Thanks!
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  #56  
Old 12-02-2022, 09:35 PM
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Mongo just moves the ball better than our other options. Yes, he makes mistakes. Yes, he has had and will have more off shooting nights. But, he moves the ball better. This teamís future will turn on its ability to move the ball. That doesnít mean that we can ignore depth. It will remain an issue. Weíll likely continue to have a negative plus/minus when heís off the court. Itís critical for him to stay out of foul trouble. If he can and if the team can move the ball, the future is bright.

Defensively, the 1-3-1 with Camara out top will cause problems for ANY opponent. Itís nasty. And, the boys will get better at it.

I think we need to enjoy this ride. My belly dancing instinct tells me that this is still going to be a special year. It may not look the way we expected and there may be some contributors not contributing as expected, but I think it will be special. Iím in.
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