Almost day 30 of AG, and all we have done is lost top 3 recruits

[udscott]

Facts don't lie, he is 0-3 with our top 3 recruits, that's it in 30 days, horrible choice for head coach and people on here love it unreal
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[OSU Flyer]

At least we have assistants now
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[Ready Action]

First 30 vs.100 days. All of this media/poll stuff has me so confused unless I'm not.

[FlyingArrow]

Which three? By my count he is 2 for 4 with no word either way on Svodoba.

[The Fly]

The handwringing on this board is beyond amusing. Chicken Little is spawning.

[jpk4ud]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow Which three? By my count he is 2 for 4 with no word either way on Svodoba.

Don't let facts get in the way of a rant......
Maybe wait until he gets a recruit or two...maybe even coached a game?

[OSU Flyer]

Svodoba isn't happening
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[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Svodoba isn't happening Posted via Mobile Device

Not sure why AM went after him- of course he's welcome...
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[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 Not sure why AM went after him- of course he's welcome... Posted via Mobile Device

He could be good, who knows but doesn't sound like anything is happening on that front
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[longtimefan]

There is actually another week before 30 days, but who is counting. And he hasn't lost our "top 3" recruits.

[udscott]

Originally Posted by longtimefan There is actually another week before 30 days, but who is counting. And he hasn't lost our "top 3" recruits.

First of all he was hired end of march and yes he has lost top three recruits, if you think their coming here you need to wake the heck up
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[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by udscott Facts don't lie, he is 0-3 with our top 3 recruits, that's it in 30 days, horrible choice for head coach and people on here love it unreal Posted via Mobile Device

And who would you have wanted for a head coach? I LOVE this choice. He's here to make UD better. Not here to prep his resume for a "better job"...
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[Flyer 79]

I understand -- and feel -- the angst. But a bit of a stretch to judge AG at this point. First, it's a challenge for many new coaches to retain the incoming players they didn't recruit. Second, we have no idea who he has connected with as potential transfers, JUCOs or incoming freshman. But fret away.

[OSU Flyer]

To be fair the lack of smoke coming from the transfer front is cause for concern
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[John C.]

Would those of you that seem to want us to sign players immediately be happy with mediocre signees or would you rather wait for better players? Seems I have read the same complaints 100 times. Same complainers saying the same thing time after time. You guys get paid by the word?

Tired argument saying that Grant was not a good hire. Actually the argument has been rather weak. Been here three weeks and you expect miracles. Oh yes and he didn't have a winning record one season at Alabama. I suggest we put together a new search committee because he has no chance of winning at Dayton. Not sure if you guys are just trolls or just love to complain. We have heard it enough.It's not like you are educating us with your brilliant new information. Come back in a month and we can talk.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by John C. Would those of you that seem to want us to sign players immediately be happy with mediocre signees or would you rather wait for better players? Seems I have read the same complaints 100 times. Same complainers saying the same thing time after time. You guys get paid by the word? Tired argument saying that Grant was not a good hire. Actually the argument has been rather weak. Been here three weeks and you expect miracles. Oh yes and he didn't have a winning record one season at Alabama. I suggest we put together a new search committee because he has no chance of winning at Dayton. Not sure if you guys are just trolls or just love to complain. We have heard it enough.It's not like you are educating us with your brilliant new information. Come back in a month and we can talk.

Is it a miracle that within two weeks of getting hired that Joe Pasternack got a good grad transfer PG from Rice and a former four star PG to transfer in?

[THirt]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Is it a miracle that within two weeks of getting hired that Joe Pasternack got a good grad transfer PG from Rice and a former four star PG to transfer in?

No wonder you're upset! It would be weird if UC Santa Barbara was getting transfers like that.
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[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by THirt No wonder you're upset! It would be weird if UC Santa Barbara was getting transfers like that. Posted via Mobile Device

He got hired at UC-Santa Barbara on April 4th.

April 11th he gets his first assistant hired

April 15th he lands Marcus Jackson from Rice as a grad transfer PG. 12ppg 2.3apg

April 18th

Josh Gershon‏Verified account
@JoshGershon

#UCSB has landed a commitment from Nevada PG transfer Devearl Ramsey, he tells Scout. Former four-star prospect. Big pickup for Gauchos.

He brings a former top 150 PG


Miracles indeed

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer To be fair the lack of smoke coming from the transfer front is cause for concern Posted via Mobile Device

There is less happening on transfers right now it seems to me nationally. I mean, there are more of them but they aren't flying off the board early for the most part like they have in past years. I think it may have a bit to do with the uncertainty that's created by more and more kids going through the NBA draft process while maintaining their eligibility.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by DallasFlyer There is less happening on transfers right now it seems to me nationally. I mean, there are more of them but they aren't flying off the board early for the most part like they have in past years. I think it may have a bit to do with the uncertainty that's created by more and more kids going through the NBA draft process while maintaining their eligibility.

I look at the transfer lists and I see the impact guys going on off the board

[TXFlyerFan]

We all want to feel like things are getting settled and next year won't be a down year, but unless someone is an insider who knows things, all we can do is wait. There will be plenty of time to BMC, or more hopefully, rejoicing, once there are some signings.

[THirt]

Originally Posted by udscott Facts don't lie, he is 0-3 with our top 3 recruits, that's it in 30 days, horrible choice for head coach and people on here love it unreal Posted via Mobile Device

This post is bad and you should feel bad.

It is brief, but has a number of factual errors and half-truths.

First, it is debateable who the "top 3" recruits are. Earlier in the year coach O had said UD was "three for three" with their top three targets. Davis, Pierce, Wright. So two of those three have said they are staying, and there is a small, but non-zero chance that Wright ends up here. As of right now, he has not signed a LOI for any other school. So it is not a "fact" that Wright isn't coming. Obviously recruiting rankings are notoriously unreliable (especially outside the top 40-50 or so) but Jordan Davis was pretty highly ranked, and had a bunch of good offers, including Butler, Pitt, Kansas State, Miami. Putting him outside the top 3 of our 5 guys is inaccurate, IMHO.

Second, he has also hired a very good, experienced staff, with solid reputations and good connections. Coach Solomon has developed a reputation as an excellent recruiter, and has wide Midwest (and broader) contacts from his time at ND. Tremont Waters isn't gonna be a Flyer, but Coach Slo helped to recruit him to Georgetown. Kane was regarded as a very good recruiter as Murray State, and Coach Grant knows him and trusts him. Greer is a little bit of a wildcard/unknown as an assistant, but he is well-respected, and has international connections. Darren Hertz has a ton of experience with a national championship program and can only help. There is likely one more staff member to be added, and at least a couple of grad assistants. If you think work hasn't been done in that regard, we will just have to agree to disagree.

As stated above, it hasn't been 30 days. Our previous coach took the Indiana job on 3/25. Hasn't even been 30 days since he left, much less since Grant was hired!

This wasn't in the original post, but just because we haven't seen public comments on transfers and incoming freshmen doesn't mean nothing is happening.

So in a little more than three weeks, we have gotten confirmation of commitments from two of our guys, two have asked out of their LOIs and likely are not coming to Dayton, a 5th international verbal we don't know much about aside from a couple tweets by the great Dave Jablonski. Is Svoboda the best recruit? Who knows? Would he be eligible this year? Who knows? Would he fit Coach Grant's system? Who knows? Is he still coming here? Again, almost certainly not, but maybe there are good reasons why. We also have an associate head coach who has seen great success at another Midwestern school as a top assistant. We have two other assistants and an assistant to the head coach on board.

Now look, we need two more point guard for next season, probably at least one other guy who can play next year, and then we have another spot available as of now. So as of right this moment, we have 4 spots unaccounted for and a very very strong need for a point guard who can play next year.

I'd argue that keeping 2/5 recruits isn't bad at all. All three of New Mexicos's recruits asked out of their LOIs, for example. I'm not sure who could have kept everyone on board aside from Ostrum. I think he's a great guy, a good coach, and I hope he gets a head job somewhere soon if he wants it. If you want to argue he would have been a better choice than Grant, there are arguments for him. Lying about the number of days a guy has had a job, and deliberately leaving out the entire assistant coaching staff is just foolhardy.

I'm excited to see who the next few future Flyers will be. We will need to wait a little longer; let's not make up nonsense while we are waiting.
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[udscott]

Osuflyer gets it ! AG has done absolutely nothing
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[THirt]

Originally Posted by udscott Osuflyer gets it ! AG has done absolutely nothing Posted via Mobile Device

Yes. Nothing. If you don't count keeping two recruits and hiring a staff and also recruiting.
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[udscott]

R u serious ? He kept two 2* recruits ?? And lost his three highest rated recruits, as far as coaches, all he did was hire his friends he has worked with, that takes three phone calls
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[THirt]

Originally Posted by udscott R u serious ? He kept two 2* recruits ?? And lost his three highest rated recruits, as far as coaches, all he did was hire his friends he has worked with, that takes three phone calls Posted via Mobile Device

Now I'm confused. I thought he did absolutely nothing. Now you claim that he has made phone calls. Make up your mind.
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[MNFats]

Originally Posted by udscott R u serious ? He kept two 2* recruits ?? And lost his three highest rated recruits, as far as coaches, all he did was hire his friends he has worked with, that takes three phone calls Posted via Mobile Device

Whew - and here I was worried I was going to get a reputation as the negative guy in town.

I feel better now.

Look - we are all anxious to see where all of this leads. This upcoming season brings more uncertainty than I can remember. Yes, I'm nervous about the PG position like everyone else. Yes, I sweated out the assistant coaches.

But before we turn on AG...can we at least let him coach? Can we give him some time? Can we wait and see if he has a plan (Spoiler alert - he does - and it might be different than we think it should be!).

I'm all for debate, but let's let the man coach before we try to run him out of town...

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by MNFats Whew - and here I was worried I was going to get a reputation as the negative guy in town. I feel better now. Look - we are all anxious to see where all of this leads. This upcoming season brings more uncertainty than I can remember. Yes, I'm nervous about the PG position like everyone else. Yes, I sweated out the assistant coaches. But before we turn on AG...can we at least let him coach? Can we give him some time? Can we wait and see if he has a plan (Spoiler alert - he does - and it might be different than we think it should be!). I'm all for debate, but let's let the man coach before we try to run him out of town...

The red reps should have told you something.

[UDBrian]

It was pretty obvious this was a probable train wreck as soon as Archie left. The chances were good that the program would be set back two or three years with so many recruits coming in this year. If there had only been one or two new recruits it would have been possible to just drive over the speed bump and go on. This is more like a bridge collapsing.

Maybe the recruits would have stayed if Ostrom had been the coach but we don't know if that is the case. And Ostrom has no experience as a head coach. He would have been a much riskier higher.

The off season is far from over. I think AG knows what he needs to have a successful season. He will do everything possible to create a team that gets to the ncaa tournament.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UDBrian Maybe the recruits would have stayed if Ostrom had been the coach but we don't know if that is the case. And Ostrom has no experience as a head coach. He would have been a much riskier higher.

In many ways IMO, the opposite could be argued: it was riskier to hire AG vs. hiring one of AM's assistants.

AM had zero hc experience and was the most successful UD hc of the last 30 years...program continuity with coaching schemes, how the UD program works, and the ability to retain both current players and incoming recruits might have been better...AG has a questionable track record as a hc...AG has been out of the college game for 2 years...AM beat the team left at Alabama by AG by 32 points, 80 to 48 at UD.


http://realtimerpi.com/2015-2016/rpi_110_Men.html

[ud2]

Originally Posted by MNFats Whew - and here I was worried I was going to get a reputation as the negative guy in town. I feel better now.

Yes, I can always count on udscott to bail me out and take the heat off of me, if I get too negative on here.

So, thank-you udscott. Lol.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by udscott R u serious ? He kept two 2* recruits ?? And lost his three highest rated recruits, as far as coaches, all he did was hire his friends he has worked with, that takes three phone calls Posted via Mobile Device

Actually, if you go off the major recruiting sites, Jordan Davis was our highest rated recruit and we kept him. He averaged a 3 Star between the sites. MW was only a 2.5 star average. So AG actually kept our highest rated recruit.

[NCkevi]

[QUOTE=udscott;504884]R u serious ? He kept two 2* recruits ?? And lost his three highest rated recruits, as far as coaches, all he did was hire his friends he has worked with, that takes three phone calls
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Were you this upset when AM lost 100% of the incoming class? If not, why? If so how did that work out?

[THirt]

Also, not that it matters, but Davis was a three star recruit per Rivals, Scout, and 24/7 sports. I'm glad he is staying a Flyer.
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[Sea Bass]

I don't know where we are going or how we will get there. I am glad that Anthony is the coach. The ride is the adventure. Enjoy it.

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by Sea Bass I don't know where we are going or how we will get there. I am glad that Anthony is the coach. The ride is the adventure. Enjoy it.

This

_____________________
Whether your glass is half full or half empty, you still have more to drink

[OSU Flyer]

If the big play behind the scenes is Jaaron Simmons, I'm all on board

[SeasonTicketFan]

I am really confused. Does the season start in May? If so, I am panicking big time.

As I recall, the season starts in October/ November. I think there is still time to land recruits.

Just because there are not public announcements, does not mean that AG and staff are idle.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan I am really confused. Does the season start in May? If so, I am panicking big time. As I recall, the season starts in October/ November. I think there is still time to land recruits. Just because there are not public announcements, does not mean that AG and staff are idle.

True to a certain extent but rarely are the impact transfers just committing unannounced. The guys that are the difference makers have been setting up visits and committing since right after the title game. All of this info is there on Twitter

After this weekend the JUCO PGs on the top 100 list are essentially off the board. Surveying the Grad transfer list of the PGs who've already declared almost all of the guys with any proven division one production are gone. New names are gonna pop up but not at the rate they have. We also have to figure that schools who miss out Trevon Duval or Tremont Waters are gonna push that much harder to find a PG in the transfer or high school ranks

Simmons would be a fantastic get but Michigan and Ohio St are gonna be on him hard.

Misplay this situation and next year is basically punted away and potentially the season after that

[ud2]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer Misplay this situation and next year is basically punted away and potentially the season after that

There seems to be a sort of an established expectation on here, with some posters, that such an occurrence will be acceptable.

Many posters have already written next year off.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer True to a certain extent but rarely are the impact transfers just committing unannounced. The guys that are the difference makers have been setting up visits and committing since right after the title game. All of this info is there on Twitter

Really don't care much about players who need to sit a year at this point. There's enough mid-year transfers to look for guys who may fit a system, and with the classes as unbalanced as they are I'd much rather see them sit on a few open scholarships.

Point guard is clearly an issue.

[Bat'71]

Just out of curiosity, have any of those wringing their hands of a seeming lack of progress on the recruiting front: ever changed jobs; tied up loose ends at your old job thousands of miles away; relocated your family; had to assess and reassure existing presonnel to stick with you as you implement a new management system; hire a new staff; and, then go out and reassure current, yet not yet enrolled recruits, while trying to recruit new personnel? That is one helluva challenge and, IMHO, AG has done pretty well in managing the situation thus far. To get overwrought becase we haven't yet pulled in any game-changing recruits is just that...overwrought.

BTW does anybody believe the assistants AG has brought on board were just sitting by the phone waiting for a job offer? These coaches,as mentioned by THirt, have good resumes and are experienced coaches and recruiters for the most part. AG had to convince them to come with him and start a new dynasty at UD...no small order. To quote (or paraphrase) Aaron Rodgers from two years ago, "Chil-ax".

[GoFlyer]

I for one do not believe in any shape or form that next year or the year after will be a bust. And I am happy with the coaching decision. .. . .very happy. As for recruiting, I am assuming everyone is working hard and we will not be disappointed in the long run.

However, my life will not end, and my love for the Flyers will not die if we don't have as good a year as we have gotten used to, in this transition. For god's sake, get a life.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by GoFlyer I for one do not believe in any shape or form that next year or the year after will be a bust. And I am happy with the coaching decision. .. . .very happy. As for recruiting, I am assuming everyone is working hard and we will not be disappointed in the long run. However, my life will not end, and my love for the Flyers will not die if we don't have as good a year as we have gotten used to, in this transition. For god's sake, get a life.

Ok, how will you feel if AG starts out 0 for 2 making the NCAAT? Is that acceptable?

[Avid Flyer]

Has anyone seen the coaches in Dayton this past weekend...

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by ud2 Ok, how will you feel if AG starts out 0 for 2 making the NCAAT? Is that acceptable?

What does 'acceptable' mean? I won't call for him to be fired if he misses the NCAAT his first two seasons, if that's what you mean.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow What does 'acceptable' mean?

Do you expect him to be able to make the NCAAT in either year 1 or year 2?

[FlyingArrow]

Originally Posted by ud2 Do you expect him to be able to make the NCAAT in either year 1 or year 2?

Yes, I expect that he'll be able to do that.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by ud2 Do you expect him to be able to make the NCAAT in either year 1 or year 2?

No. And I did not expect the current coach of IU to make the NCAAT next year if he stayed at UD. I thought he'd be lucky to be on the NIT bubble.

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by ud2 Ok, how will you feel if AG starts out 0 for 2 making the NCAAT? Is that acceptable?

If i recall correctly- (and I think I absolutely do) - the great Archie Miller started 0-2 making the NCAA his first 2 years. Was that acceptable? If AG has UD in the dance by year 1 or 2 does that mean he's a superior coach to AM?
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[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 If i recall correctly- (and I think I absolutely do) - the great Archie Miller started 0-2 making the NCAA his first 2 years. Was that acceptable? If AG has UD in the dance by year 1 or 2 does that mean he's a superior coach to AM? Posted via Mobile Device

different situations, no?

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer different situations, no?

How are they different? Seems like BG left a mess with (2) recruits defecting on LOI (and one of those scored like 2100 career points at Providence). Seems like AM is leaving it a bigger mess and possibly stealing a recruit with him to IU- unethical at best. Oh, they are different actually...bigger mess left now than 6 years ago when BG lett...
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[UDTradition]

Originally Posted by udscott Facts don't lie, he is 0-3 with our top 3 recruits, that's it in 30 days, horrible choice for head coach and people on here love it unreal Posted via Mobile Device

This post is intended to tick some people off and many of you allowed yourself to fall for this immature ploy.

[TX Flyer]

Missed ncaat the first two years would be a disappointment and on my hot seat
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[C-time]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer Missed ncaat the first two years would be a disappointment and on my hot seat Posted via Mobile Device

Originally Posted by ud2 Ok, how will you feel if AG starts out 0 for 2 making the NCAAT? Is that acceptable?

This is where the divide on this board is going to come out. There is a group that is fine with UD making the NCAA tournament just every 2 or 3 years as long as the coach/players are good citizens and representatives of the university. The other group believes that UD should be in the NCAA tournament every year no matter what. This difference in expectation will lead to a lot of red pips!!!!!

My expectation is that UD should be in the NCAA tournament every single year no matter what circumstances are involved.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by C-time This is where the divide on this board is going to come out. There is a group that is fine with UD making the NCAA tournament just every 2 or 3 years as long as the coach/players are good citizens and representatives of the university. The other group believes that UD should be in the NCAA tournament every year no matter what. This difference in expectation will lead to a lot of red pips!!!!! My expectation is that UD should be in the NCAA tournament every single year no matter what circumstances are involved.

Then you were against Archie his first two years as he didn't make the NCAAT. there are realistic expectations also refereed to as wishful thinking and then there is the unrealistic. As a UCLA grad (Bill Walton era) I can assure you that not all the great programs make it year in and year out.

I can also assure you that AG and company are not sitting on their hands but are out recruiting.

Good things coming.

[C-time]

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer Then you were against Archie his first two years as he didn't make the NCAAT. there are realistic expectations also refereed to as wishful thinking and then there is the unrealistic. As a UCLA grad (Bill Walton era) I can assure you that not all the great programs make it year in and year out.

My expectations are different now than they were when I was celebrating the departure of Brian Gregory (Thanks again Georgia Tech!). Archie elevated the program to a higher level and with that come higher expectations for the next guy. Am I going to start FireCoachGrant.com if he doesn't make the NCAA tournament his first 2 seasons? No. But if he doesn't make it by his 3rd season I probably will.

Originally Posted by Avid Flyer I can also assure you that AG and company are not sitting on their hands but are out recruiting. Good things coming.

Did I mention anywhere that CAG and his staff were not out recruiting/working hard? I don't think so. I know they are just like every other staff in the country is too.

	Brian Gregory BRIAN GREGORY UD Men's Basketball Head Coach since 2004. Groomed by the likes of Judd Heathcoate and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, as well as Kevin O'Neill and others, Gregory's defensive-minded leadership has led Dayton to NCAA and multiple NIT appearances. A good recruiter, BG has elevated the athleticism of the squad in recent years and kept top area talent at home. Still looking for that breakthrough season with his own players that catapult him to the NCAA tourney. Graduated from Oakland University.

[Glen Clark]

Originally Posted by C-time This is where the divide on this board is going to come out. There is a group that is fine with UD making the NCAA tournament just every 2 or 3 years as long as the coach/players are good citizens and representatives of the university. The other group believes that UD should be in the NCAA tournament every year no matter what. This difference in expectation will lead to a lot of red pips!!!!! My expectation is that UD should be in the NCAA tournament every single year no matter what circumstances are involved.

I'm firmly in the third group - you know, the evidence-based group.

__________________
That rug really tied the room together . . .
Walter Sobchak - The Big Lebowski

[longtimefan67]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer Missed ncaat the first two years would be a disappointment and on my hot seat Posted via Mobile Device

So Archie was on your hot seat huh? Good thing he won the next 4 years and redeemed himself in your eyes. BTW, where do you sit the UD administrative offices? Does AG report to you?
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[TX Flyer]

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 So Archie was on your hot seat huh? Good thing he won the next 4 years and redeemed himself in your eyes. BTW, where do you sit the UD administrative offices? Does AG report to you? Posted via Mobile Device

I answered the questions asked...and I wasnt aware that I reported to you. Next time I respond I'll PM you first and make sure its ok to post

[soccerflyer]

Originally Posted by TX Flyer I answered the questions asked...and I wasnt aware that I reported to you. Next time I respond I'll PM you first and make sure its ok to post

This is what people do when faced with ABC logic that doesn't fit their agenda. They create their own parallel universe where logic doesn't apply.

[CE80]

BG got us in the NCAAT his first year. AM failed to get us in the NCAAT his first 2 years.

And from that we assume AG.....

Edit - I just realized if you take the A from AM and the G from BG you get AG. That has to mean something.

[priceg75]

Originally Posted by CE80 Edit - I just realized if you take the A from AM and the G from BG you get AG. That has to mean something.

[priceg75]

Archie lost the only 2 recruits he had coming in the year he started with us, and I think that turned out pretty well.

Main point being, your thread title is patently wrong, AND even if it weren't, Archie started the same way.

The end.

[FLYER5]

Awwe, somebody got their feelings hurt again on this board.

[ud2]

As long as Rollo and Beatty Town Coach are jumping all over AG by year 3, if AG starts out 0 for 2, with a NIT appearance in year 1, just like they did with AM, then I am ok. I will be watching for consistency in terms of how those 2 react. Lol.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by ud2 As long as Rollo and Beatty Town Coach are jumping all over AG by year 3... then I am ok. I will be watching for consistency in terms of how those 2 react. Lol.

I didn't jump Miller for his record...I jumped Miller for allowing and covering for felonious behavior all for the sake of winning. I said this more than once in that time: "I'd rather lose with winners than win with losers." If Grant follows that same path, he'll hear from me. All of you will.

So let it be written.

So let it be done.

King Rollo the Consistent...OUT!

[ud2]

Originally Posted by rollo I didn't jump Miller for his record...I jumped Miller for allowing and covering for felonious behavior all for the sake of winning. I said this more than once in that time: "I'd rather lose with winners than win with losers." If Grant follows that same path, he'll hear from me. All of you will. So let it be written. So let it be done. King Rollo the Consistent...OUT!

No, several times you and BTC both said that AM had no idea what he was doing and was a poor coach. You 2 were all over him for his coaching.

It had nothing to do with Scott and Robinson.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by rollo I didn't jump Miller for his record...I jumped Miller for allowing and covering for felonious behavior all for the sake of winning. I said this more than once in that time: "I'd rather lose with winners than win with losers." If Grant follows that same path, he'll hear from me. All of you will. So let it be written. So let it be done. King Rollo the Consistent...OUT!

And to be fair, most of this board was all over AM early in year 3 too. I remember you 2 being more prominent critics though.

[Alberto Strasse]

that we CLOSE this board until the Monday of the week of the first scheduled game. Can I get a second?

[jack72]

If Grant gets us to the Dance next year, he should be coach of the year. Very little chance with what we have coming back and coming in. I expect us there every year, and nothing less, but much more, like a final four soon.

Next year, an NIT would meet my realistic expectations. This mess has set back AG to year three.

[jack72]

Let's assume that Simmons can somehow replace Scoochie. Although two good years for a middle of the road Mid Am team, would not say he is another Scoochie. Who plays center next year? We will miss Pollard. We will miss Kyle. We will miss our leading scorer and rebounder, Cooke. That is some mighty modern math that allows us to get to the NCAA next year.

[OSU Flyer]

Originally Posted by jack72 Let's assume that Simmons can somehow replace Scoochie. Although two good years for a middle of the road Mid Am team, would not say he is another Scoochie. Who plays center next year? We will miss Pollard. We will miss Kyle. We will miss our leading scorer and rebounder, Cooke. That is some mighty modern math that allows us to get to the NCAA next year.

You can't replace those guys per say but the hope is that new guys step up.

we haven't seen what a healthy Josh Cunningham can bring to the table. He was a top 100 guy in high school and got a lot of doubles doubles as a freshman at Bradley

Xeyrius Williams I thought came a long way over the course of last year. I think he's got a chance to be pretty good

Kostas is someone who might defend the Peyton Aldridges/Tyler Cavanaugh type forwards who caused a bunch of problems. Offense might not be there but a 6'10 guy with good athleticism is a major plus on defense/rebounding equation

Simmons if he stays at Ohio is the MAC player of the year next season. Michigan and Ohio State along with I'm sure many P5 schools are gonna be after this guy

Miller, Landers, Mikesell, DD are all guys capable of improving.

[MNFats]

Originally Posted by jack72 That is some mighty modern math that allows us to get to the NCAA next year.

Obviously it depends on who plays point - but to get to the tourney we just need to win the A10 tournament.

I think the A10 will be down next year. I still see us as a top 4 team. Cunningham, X, & Kostas should all be as good or better than they guys they are matching up with most nights.

Do I think it will be a roster that will make a run in the tourney? Unlikely (depending on who gets added). But making the tournament is not totally out of the question with a weaker A10.

[Sitdowndigger]

Originally Posted by udscott Facts don't lie, he is 0-3 with our top 3 recruits, that's it in 30 days, horrible choice for head coach and people on here love it unreal Posted via Mobile Device

Because Archie was instrumental in keeping all his recruits, bringing in the frog, and killing it his first two years...

Turn off Coldplay and be happy. Grant is going to be fine.
Posted via Mobile Device

[CE80]

Originally Posted by Sitdowndigger Because Archie was instrumental in keeping all his recruits, bringing in the frog, and killing it his first two years... Turn off Coldplay and be happy. Grant is going to be fine. Posted via Mobile Device

Running in circles
Chasing our tails
Coming back as we are

Nobody said it was easy
Oh, it's such a shame for us to part
Nobody said it was easy
No one ever said it would be so hard

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UDDoug No. And I did not expect the current coach of IU to make the NCAAT next year if he stayed at UD. I thought he'd be lucky to be on the NIT bubble.

I disagree.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by ud2 I disagree.

We will never know.

But I don't think a team with the current sophomores and Darrell Davis playing the major roles is top 3 in the A10, and I don't think a team with freshman playing the major roles does either. Especially when said freshman were not the highest rated recruiting class in the A10. Archie was great at player development - his development skills weren't going to influence the freshmen.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UDDoug We will never know. But I don't think a team with the current sophomores and Darrell Davis playing the major roles is top 3 in the A10, and I don't think a team with freshman playing the major roles does either. Especially when said freshman were not the highest rated recruiting class in the A10. Archie was great at player development - his development skills weren't going to influence the freshmen.

Again, I disagree.

It is certainly possible that the freshmen could develop better than you think they would have and therefore played a bigger role. In addition, the rest of the roster could have improved also.

Year-to-year player improvement was a consistent hallmark of Archie's time here.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by UDDoug We will never know. But I don't think a team with the current sophomores and Darrell Davis playing the major roles is top 3 in the A10, and I don't think a team with freshman playing the major roles does either. Especially when said freshman were not the highest rated recruiting class in the A10. Archie was great at player development - his development skills weren't going to influence the freshmen.

It was not unheard of for freshmen to be significant contributors under Archie.

Pierre 9 and 5 fr. year.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/...-pierre-1.html



Big Steve 6 and 6 and 2 bpg fr. year.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/...celvene-1.html



Robinson 6 and 5 fr. year.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/...binson--1.html

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by ud2 It was not unheard of for freshmen to be significant contributors under Archie. Pierre 9 and 5 fr. year. http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/...-pierre-1.html Big Steve 6 and 6 and 2 bpg fr. year. http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/...celvene-1.html Robinson 6 and 5 fr. year. http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/...binson--1.html

One guy each year. Not multiple guys. Cunningham and Williams could be good pieces. Filling the other 5 roles would be tougher.

Again, we'll never know. I doubt UD would have been in the NCAAT with an at-large bid.

[DallasFlyer]

Originally Posted by jack72 Let's assume that Simmons can somehow replace Scoochie. Although two good years for a middle of the road Mid Am team, would not say he is another Scoochie.

Simmons is the real deal. Problem is it doesn't seem real likely he is coming to Dayton. There will probably be more questions about the guy(s) Dayton does actually bring in, but PG play is obviously the biggest question mark of all. So big in fact, that it's hard to really even think about any other holes and question marks, so kudos to you for thinking about them.

Originally Posted by jack72 Who plays center next year? We will miss Pollard.

No doubt we will miss Pollard. I think he was the emotional leader. A healthy Josh Cunningham is a very different player than Kendall Pollard but as far as stats go, he should give everything Pollard gave you and more, particularly rebounding, which is something Pollard should actually been much better at in my opinion. He played center at Bradley and will be a force in the post for UD next year as long as he can stay healthy. Xeyrius and Kostas have similar body types, incredibly athleticism, the ability to block shots and defend bigger guys though they may lack strength. Sam can throw his body around and will be needed in the paint. And then there's the new kid, Jordan Pierce, who is the center of the future, but counting on much of anything from a freshman big is ambitious. They always take time to develop. Though none may be ideal, we actually have more options at the position this coming year than last, with Big Steve having been taken from us so tragically and unexpectedly.

Originally Posted by jack72 We will miss Kyle.

Great leader, best defender, glue guy, unbelievable in transition... There is probably no one on the roster that's going to replace Kyle. But what Dayton might be able to do is play a better scorer at the position. The Davises will have to step up. DD will need to step up leadership and needs to have a lot of 4-6 from three type nights. He's capable. Jordan's rep is as an unstoppable scorer. Here's hoping he's the next Brian Roberts. I'm reminded of the Mark Jones to Brian Roberts transition. Kyle Davis is much than Mark Jones and chances are Jordan Davis isn't Brian Roberts, but comparing the types of players they are/were is an optimistic way of looking at things.

Originally Posted by jack72 We will miss our leading scorer and rebounder, Cooke.

Certainly. I think Xeyrius will be our high volume shooter, scorer and the guy who like Cooke, is the one opposing coaches will key on. I'm not counting on big offense from Kostas in year one, but I am interested to see if Dayton plays Kostas and Xeyrius at the same time. Slow down one Xeyrius Williams? Maybe. Slow down (basically) two Xeyrius Williams? Impossible. Who has a roster that can guard two guys with that combination of size and guard-like skills?

But anyway, back to Cooke... In regards to the rebounds he provided, replacing those is the least worrisome. See above. Cunningham will gobble those up. A healthy Josh Cunningham will be the closest thing Dayton has had to Ryan Perryman since Ryan Perryman. Fear not there.

The really great thing about Cooke is that he was he was a very good playmaker and passer who dished assists as well as being a great scorer who got buckets with relative efficiency. Perhaps most importantly, he really attacked the rim and got to the free throw line. Oh, and he could defend too. He had all the aspects to his game that I so wished Jordan Sibert would focus on.

Xeyrius is a great shooter, but he knows he can just shoot over anyone. He's by far the best contested three point shooter Dayton has, but contested threes aren't great shots for anyone. So I worry that we'll replace some of Cooke's offensive output with a ton of XW jumpers like we got at times from Jordan Sibert. Maybe we can get him the ball in the post some to get him going towards the rim as we did with Dyshawn Pierre... Maybe Xeyrius makes strides attacking the basket this year... Maybe that attacking mindset is what Kostas brings... Maybe Grant pulls in a grad transfer who is a bigtime scorer who keeps the Sibert/Cooke thing going... We'll see how it plays out.

Originally Posted by jack72 That is some mighty modern math that allows us to get to the NCAA next year.

For the sum to equal an NCAA tourney bid next year, Grant obviously will have to add to the roster. He's definitely going to add guys. But who will he add and will it be enough? Expecting an NCAA birth after four straight, with a new coach implementing a new system with players not recruited specifically for that system is asking a bit much. But there are just too many unknowns on the roster to make a prediction one way or another at this time.

[Jack D]

Svoboda = Alex Carmona v 2.0?

[Avid Flyer]

Not sure which year it was (probably yr 3) after a 1-5 start in conference I was one of the naysayers calling for a blackout for the next game. No one listened and Archie got some good advice from Mata and well the rest is history.

So clearly coaches can turn things around too.

AG stated that he had learned a lot during his coaching gigs and will be applying these here at UD. So he may not run the same offense he did at Alabama...time will tell.

[Swampy Meadows]

Originally Posted by udscott Facts don't lie, he is 0-3 with our top 3 recruits, that's it in 30 days, horrible choice for head coach and people on here love it unreal Posted via Mobile Device

Don't know if you are outright trolling or not, but you certainly got the reaction that a troll would.

Here's mine:

The "fact" is that we know that AG is not 0-3 on recruits, he is 2-2. The Jordans are both still coming. MW reopened his recruitment but is still considering UD; Nahziah Carter said he was going to prep school, now he is saying he won't and he is still a possibility; Svoboda has been MIA and no one knows if he's coming or not.

I suggest you wait until decisions are actually made before you determine that AG is a "horrible choice."

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows I suggest you wait until decisions are actually made before you determine that AG is a "horrible choice."

Yeah...kinda like you did before, during and after the election!

[Smitty10]

Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows I suggest you wait until decisions are actually made before you determine that AG is a "horrible choice."

I agree with what this 100 percent. Actually I'll take it further and say wait until you've seen his Flyers team in action before deeming AG as a "horrible choice".

With that said, how come nobody says the same thing to the many that annointed him a "great choice"?

[FLYER5]

Everyone knows PG is the priority. We can have the most explosive wings in the league but if we don't recruit a starting PG to get them the ball in the half-court we're in deep doodoo. Because the PG quandry is a glaring need then I'll wait to give my opinion until after AG lands him. Think the juco ship has sailed if not for the picked-over prospects that remain there.

[Sea Bass]

It doesn't matter what kind of choice he is/was the Flyers have to live with it for 4 or 5 years. Hope for the best for Anthony. It is a long term project.

[Medford]

I agree w/ Sea Bass. I'm just a fan and former graduate. I don't donate to the school or basketball program anywhere near the kind of money that it would take to have some sort of actual influence (either real or perceived) so like 99% of the people on this board, I'm just along for the line. It humor's me how worked up some people get that this is the right choice or wrong choice, how the blank does any body truly know at this point. You may like the hire, you may have your hesitations, but to be 100% in the for or against camp is just silly after less than 30 days. Its not CAG's fault that Archie up and left, and by the sounds of things, its not really the administration's fault either as they tried to pay him more than he reasonably deserved.

Spring has sprung, summer is around the corner. I don't know about everyone else, but I've got soccer games and baseball games to attend, swim meets around the corner and football practice starting before I'll even realize it. I've got work demands, wife demands, friend and family demands. I love UD basketball, but mid April is not the time of the year I'm going to get exactly worked up about it when at no point in the year do I have any sort of influence in the outcome of any particular game.

[CE80]

Originally Posted by Medford I agree w/ Sea Bass. I'm just a fan and former graduate. I don't donate to the school or basketball program anywhere near the kind of money that it would take to have some sort of actual influence (either real or perceived) so like 99% of the people on this board, I'm just along for the line. It humor's me how worked up some people get that this is the right choice or wrong choice, how the blank does any body truly know at this point. You may like the hire, you may have your hesitations, but to be 100% in the for or against camp is just silly after less than 30 days. Its not CAG's fault that Archie up and left, and by the sounds of things, its not really the administration's fault either as they tried to pay him more than he reasonably deserved. Spring has sprung, summer is around the corner. I don't know about everyone else, but I've got soccer games and baseball games to attend, swim meets around the corner and football practice starting before I'll even realize it. I've got work demands, wife demands, friend and family demands. I love UD basketball, but mid April is not the time of the year I'm going to get exactly worked up about it when at no point in the year do I have any sort of influence in the outcome of any particular game.

Oh sure, you have a life. What are the rest of us supposed to do?

[maddog07]

By way of comparison, Archie was 0 for two.
Posted via Mobile Device

[UDGutter2]

Some people got so carried away with Ryan Miller. IMO 2013-14 made him, and there was a lot of luck involved. First game of the season was quite possibly the luckiest win in decades for the Flyers. By any reasonable standard Ft. Wayne should have won that game, and if they had, UD does not dance that year, there is no victory over OSU, no Elite 8, nothing but another NIT invite, maybe. Snd then in the tournament Craft makes that shot 70% of the time, and the Syracuse kid was known for making game winning threes. And how much did the Elite 8 run play into Dayton's invite in 2015? I'm not saying Miller is a bad coach, just that he had luck on his side, and quite honestly, he was a traveling call on KD's rollover pass to JS from still being our coach and having meh results. I'm not happy nor sad he's gone, more upset with the how, and anxious to see Grant's team play.

[San Diego Flyer]

We have had our bad luck as well. You need good luck to win against good competition. It's not something you expect, but most Champions have unexpected good luck on the way up.

The more you prepare and practice, the luckier you get.

[FlyingArrow]

What is 15/15?

[UD62]

Originally Posted by FlyingArrow What is 15/15?

Believe that refers to ud2's love for the balanced schedule of 15 home games and 15 away games.

[UDDoug]

Originally Posted by UD62 Believe that refers to ud2's love for the balanced schedule of 15 home games and 15 away games.

Yes, on which he's probably posted 500 times.

[Gazoo]

Originally Posted by jack72 Let's assume that Simmons can somehow replace Scoochie. Although two good years for a middle of the road Mid Am team, would not say he is another Scoochie. Who plays center next year? We will miss Pollard. We will miss Kyle. We will miss our leading scorer and rebounder, Cooke. That is some mighty modern math that allows us to get to the NCAA next year.

April, 2008:
"How will we recover from losing one of the greatest ever, Brian Roberts? Who's going to play PG--London Warren?!?! Who's going to play center - Huelsman is horrible and Searcy only played 7 minutes per game. We're graduating 41% of our total minutes played. That's some mighty modern math that allows us to get to the NCAA next year."

2008-2009 result: 27-8, 11-5, won first round game.

It might happen.

	London Warren LONDON WARREN 6-0 185lb Junior Raines, HS | Jacksonville FL Nicknamed the "Jacksonville Jet", London Warren is perhaps UD's quickest player baseline to baseline. Leader in steals defensively, he likes to push tempo on offense. Working on his shot and confidence at the charity stripe. 2007-08 | 4.3ppg 2.9rpg 2006-07 | 2.4ppg 1.7rpg

[OSU Flyer]

That's where Pasternack would have been nice, style of play & culture probably would have continued
Posted via Mobile Device

[Windy City Flyer]

This is an interesting thread to say the least. Here's just some things to consider:
- The cupboard wasn't bear when Arch took over. Without Kavs and Oliver we're not going dancing and we're no where near the E8.
- Arch was 32 years old when he was hired. It wasn't like he was going to go out a get experienced coaches to be his assistants.
- More importantly Arch had an unpaid assistant in his dad. From what I've read he they talked a bunch.
- Arch quickly realized chasing 4 star recruits wasn't going to work. You spend a bunch of resources going after guys like Kenard only to get burnt at the 11th hr. You're far better off finding guys like Scooh that were going to work their buts off for four years.
- Arch dealt with a lot of adversity more than most coaches face IMO. Major issues with Pierre, Kavs, Scott, & Robinson, Injuries to key players like Pollard, JC, And the death of a great teammate in Big Steve. Only the great ones get through that kind of adversity and year after year.
- We can't blame AG for a bare cupboard or not keeping every AM recruit. It just doesn't work that way. If Staten was Chris Wright we' would have destroyed AM for not retaining him even with what he accomplished..
- BG was a great recruiter that elevated our progrm but didn't have the game management or player development ability of AM.
- AM is going to quickly learn that life in IU won't be easy. He WILL be given every possible resource to bring that program back. He'll win the entire program over with his passion and work ethic. It's contagious hence the reason we're still talking about at this poiint. We know we lost something great.
- AG is coming back to college b-ball. The experience of being around a Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant is something that will translate to recruits and his players.
- There wasn't a better candidate than AG. If he's not the top coach right now in the A10 then I'm missing something. Who's better?
- Regardless of who's coaching without an experienced PG the Flyers will struggle this season. Think back to how SS looked as a freshman.

	Chris Wright CHRIS WRIGHT 6-8 225lb | Trotwood Madison, HS (OH) A10 All Rookie Team. Preseason 2008 2nd Team All A10. Member of the UD Flight Club with a 40+ inch vertical leap. Consensus Top-75 national recruit. Uncle is former Flyer J.D. Grigsby. Nickname is Top Flyght. CAREER STATS 2007-08 10.4ppg 5.7rpg