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  #201  
Old 11-23-2021, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Gazoo:

I fairness to Jules, he did pass Obi the ball for a corner three...which Toppin bricked.

I think he tripped, traveled, double dribbled, got fouled twice, and choked on a piece of popcorn first. THEN he decided Obi might have a better shot.
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  #202  
Old 11-23-2021, 11:01 PM
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Obi and the bench comes through again for the Knicks in a win that was much closer than it needed to be.
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  #203  
Old 11-24-2021, 09:21 AM
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The Ringer believes that the NYK bench cannot continue to outscore the starters if they are to be successful:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/1...ench-disparity
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  #204  
Old 11-24-2021, 09:53 AM
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I watched the entire game last night. Starters were on fire, then got very complacent. They actual ran some pick and rolls and were on fire from 3-point range.

Reggie Miller commented how they went into one-on-one mode on offense. That type of offense often leads to bad defense and breakouts for opponents. Their first unit has players who play hot and cold on both ends of the floor.

Randle got into foul trouble and Obi played most of the fourth quarter. Lakers forgot about him on D and he got some easy baskets. The lead extended while Obi was in, but it was more about the 2nd unit. Obi was 6-8, then missed his last 3 shots. I believe he left the game with about 2-3 minutes left in the 4th quarter.
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  #205  
Old 11-24-2021, 10:10 AM
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I watched most of the game, first one this year. Great to see Obi functioning at his old self. Wow, the NBA is terrible. You get up by 25, stop playing until the other team catches up, then you try again. Some of those foul calls were ridiculous. How many times Obi was open and the Knicks player looked him off.
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  #206  
Old 11-24-2021, 10:26 AM
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Obi will get more passes if...

Obi simply has to improve his 3 pt shooting. Borders on pitiful. Everything else in his arsenal is a go. Even his defense which ranks in the middle of the team.

Make the 3pt shots at a high 30's+ clip and they will find you. Now, Obi can beat most defenders one-on-one from the corner, so there is that. But that might not lead to an assist.

The NY players want an assist and/or a bucket if they are going to pass the ball.
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  #207  
Old 11-24-2021, 03:06 PM
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Obi needs to improve 3pt shooting, but he should not be camping out on the 3 pt line. Last night, he worked more around the foul line for a period of time and was better fluidity in the offense.
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  #208  
Old 11-24-2021, 03:31 PM
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Obi is not a great 3 point shooter. Last year, he improved as the season developed. He can be better.
A few Knicks threw up air balls last night. Not just Obi.

Obi is in the corner, because Thibs offense calls for him to be there. Does not play to his strengths.
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  #209  
Old 11-25-2021, 05:51 AM
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I’ve said it before, I think Obi is in a good place because he works so hard and is such a team player that just wants to help his team win. If that doesn’t earn him playing time, it will cause other teams to come knocking. It’s starting to surface. He’s doing everything he can in the opportunities he’s getting. He’s had one “bad” game, and it wasn’t terrible. Starting to payoff.

https://dailyknicks.com/2021/11/24/n...-knicks-depth/

https://nypost.com/2021/11/24/obi-to...-knicks-boost/

Last edited by BeckysTXA; 11-25-2021 at 05:56 AM..
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  #210  
Old 11-25-2021, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
I’ve said it before, I think Obi is in a good place because he works so hard and is such a team player that just wants to help his team win. If that doesn’t earn him playing time, it will cause other teams to come knocking. It’s starting to surface. He’s doing everything he can in the opportunities he’s getting. He’s had one “bad” game, and it wasn’t terrible. Starting to payoff.

https://dailyknicks.com/2021/11/24/n...-knicks-depth/

https://nypost.com/2021/11/24/obi-to...-knicks-boost/
Thanks for the post and Happy Thanksgiving.

Now, seriously, were you up really really late Wednesday night, or up really really early with the bird on Thursday?
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  #211  
Old 11-25-2021, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by San Diego Flyer View Post
Thanks for the post and Happy Thanksgiving.

Now, seriously, were you up really really late Wednesday night, or up really really early with the bird on Thursday?
Where is my “None of the above” option?

Just up early, but no bird in my house. Over the river and through the woods is the way to go. Way less work. Happy Turkey Day to you too.
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  #212  
Old 11-26-2021, 11:43 AM
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In-depth analysis of Obi’s useage this year vs. last courtesy of The Strickland:

https://www.thestrick.land/strick/hw...opping-popping
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  #213  
Old 11-27-2021, 09:42 PM
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At the half, Obi One has 11 points, 2 boards and 1 dime in only 9 minutes of action, including these two beauties:

https://twitter.com/KnicksMSGN/statu...67213089574917

https://twitter.com/KnicksMSGN/statu...68259664793606

In the second half, Obi got undercut going to the hoop on a dirty play. Appears to be okay, tho, as he made both FTs.

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  #214  
Old 11-30-2021, 09:14 PM
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Obi came in and made an immediate impact vs. the Nets. He played great D on James Harden and then leaked out for a dunk, then he got a slam on a feed from Quickley. Here are both of them in one clip:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...50230600089601

Note: This game is on TNT

2nd half Obi hit 2 FTs and got a breakaway dunk: https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/1465871243807232005

But then KD hit a jumper over Obi and Thibs signaled Robinson to replace #1. Obi was quite vocal with Thibs as he walked to the bench.

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  #215  
Old 11-30-2021, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Obi was quite vocal with Thibs as he walked to the bench.
I thought that was interesting. I wonder what was said.
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  #216  
Old 12-01-2021, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
I thought that was interesting. I wonder what was said.
Probably something like - "Hey Thibs - I am sorry I drowned your puppy - how many times do I need to apologize?"

Because outside of Obi drowning Thibs puppy I don't get the lack of playing time Obi is getting. And the twitter-verse is getting really vocal about this too. The Knicks are a better team when Obi is on the floor.

How long is Obi supposed to take this BS of just 10 to 13 minutes a game.
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  #217  
Old 12-01-2021, 02:21 AM
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Once again the bench +/- lapped the starters tonight. I think Thibs needs a Moneyball moment from a Knicks back office intern.
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  #218  
Old 12-01-2021, 08:44 AM
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Thibs did play Obi and Randall together for several minutes but bailing on Obi because can’t stop Kevin Durant is weak—who the heck can?
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  #219  
Old 12-01-2021, 06:31 PM
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I'm not sure we can say a specific play causes Thibs to pull Obi. Thibs never lets Obi play in the final minutes of a game, and he only gets like 10-15 minutes per game total.

It's a pattern. Obi just gets very limited minutes in Thibs system right now.
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  #220  
Old 12-01-2021, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Thibs did play Obi and Randall together for several minutes but bailing on Obi because can’t stop Kevin Durant is weak—who the heck can?
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Especially on one single possession. He proceeded to make a clown out of Randle guarding him afterwards who also picked up a T. But he doesn’t get pulled
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  #221  
Old 12-01-2021, 10:23 PM
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My personal opinion is that Thibs did not want Obi to be the draft choice and he is letting management know it.

Obi's hope beyond being traded is to do exactly what he is doing . . being exciting and explosive when he has the chance, build his personal chemistry with his teammates and get the crowd and the twitter feeds on Thibs.
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  #222  
Old 12-01-2021, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Thibs did play Obi and Randall together for several minutes but bailing on Obi because can’t stop Kevin Durant is weak—who the heck can?
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Nobody. The only guy past or present Ive ever seen that could do what a man his size can do is Dirk. He is a human anomaly. Obi is in good company on KD's fridge.
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  #223  
Old 12-02-2021, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by GoFlyer View Post
My personal opinion is that Thibs did not want Obi to be the draft choice and he is letting management know it.

Obi's hope beyond being traded is to do exactly what he is doing . . being exciting and explosive when he has the chance, build his personal chemistry with his teammates and get the crowd and the twitter feeds on Thibs.
I’ve been suspecting this since last season. It’s becoming more obvious now because Obi’s offensive efficiency is off the charts when not shooting the 3 ball (which was a Thibs idea to have Obi camp in the corner wings and hoist all day)- what better way to drag down your stats if that’s not your game.

I’ve been saying since last season Obi deserves at least 20-30 minutes per game but instead you see Mitch Robinson-who’s so slow I swear Obi could run the floor up and back to Mitch’s half distance in the same time.

The fans know; listen to or watch Knicksfantv on YouTube during and after each Knicks game and you see thread comments and calls after each game expressing extreme frustration with Thibideau. I hope it works out in NY for Obi but my guess is he gets traded where he’ll flourish.
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Old 12-02-2021, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Fudd View Post
I thought that was interesting. I wonder what was said.
Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
I’ve been suspecting this since last season. It’s becoming more obvious now because Obi’s offensive efficiency is off the charts when not shooting the 3 ball (which was a Thibs idea to have Obi camp in the corner wings and hoist all day)- what better way to drag down your stats if that’s not your game.

I’ve been saying since last season Obi deserves at least 20-30 minutes per game but instead you see Mitch Robinson-who’s so slow I swear Obi could run the floor up and back to Mitch’s half distance in the same time.

The fans know; listen to or watch Knicksfantv on YouTube during and after each Knicks game and you see thread comments and calls after each game expressing extreme frustration with Thibideau. I hope it works out in NY for Obi but my guess is he gets traded where he’ll flourish.
I hope Thibs can get over whatever it is causing him to hold back Obi. Obi does not want to be traded - he is a Knicks fan and the Knicks fans have embraced him as one of their own. As a Knicks fan - it would be a shame to lose the most exciting player we have had in a long long time.

That said - you could finally see Obi's frustration come through that last game when he was pulled in the 4th.
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  #225  
Old 12-02-2021, 11:35 AM
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At this point I wish for the Knicks to lose every game. Maybe a nice 10 game losing streak to welcome in 2022 would lead to an immediate coaching change mid season, since yes that does happen in pro sports.

Of course we want Obi to continue to be well above average on the +/- and continue to lead the team PER rating, while Randle sinks deeper.
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Old 12-02-2021, 11:59 AM
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Two frustrating things about the Knicks: 1. When they have Obi camp out on the three line, which is not his strength and 2: Getting pulled for a mistake, while other players make similar or worse and don't get pulled. We all agree that Obi still has work to do on his game, but the Knicks are simply better when he's in. Gibson, Noel, and Robinson offer essentially zero offense night in night out. Obi doesn't have to take Randle's minutes, he should take some of the other guys. Randle is big and beefy enough to take on many opposing centers for a period of time to give Obi some more minutes on the floor with him.
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  #227  
Old 12-02-2021, 09:18 PM
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New Knicks drinking game.

Every time Obi has to point to a location on the floor telling a team mate where to go, take a drink. I assume Obi is right, are his team mates just that lazy to not rotate to where they should be?

Cheers!
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Old 12-02-2021, 09:27 PM
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Obi came in with 3+ minutes to go in the 1Q after there was some heated disputes and a Taj Gibson ejection. He has 6 points so far in 11 minutes:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...75296828624897

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...77645940977670

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...78182434340865

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Old 12-02-2021, 09:48 PM
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And he’s -7 on the +/- scale. What does that mean?

Should he play more? Or less?

Hmmmm
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Old 12-02-2021, 10:46 PM
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In 19 minutes Obi One finishes with 8 points on 4-6 shooting, 4 boards, 2 steals and an assist
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  #231  
Old 12-03-2021, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
And he’s -7 on the +/- scale. What does that mean?

Should he play more? Or less?

Hmmmm
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Julius Randle scored 30 points but was -2 for the +/- , what does that say? 3/5 starters were on the negative side for the night despite scoring 61 points; what does that say? Derick Rose scored 16 points as a sub but was -14 on the +/-. The point? When the team loses, MOST will have a negative for the night. The +/- is just one stat of many.

Here’s the the stat that I followed from a defensive perspective (and it’s not really charted on ESPN but its self explanatory):

How many times did I see Mitch Robinson dragging up the rear when getting back on offense? EVER SINGLE TIME and it’s laughable to say he’s playing more effective defense when the Knicks are consistently having to play 4 on 5 until “gassed” Mitch arrives down the court for defensive action. It’s even funnier when the announcers are saying it. Should Obi be getting more than the average 12 minutes per game? All i can say is you can’t blame the Knicks’ losses on Obi when he hardly sees any action, but if they continue to lose, at least based on UDPride mentality- it’s the coaches fault!
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Old 12-03-2021, 08:26 AM
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Looks Like Obi is not the only player Thibs doesn't know how to use.

Kenny Smith on Thibs benching Kemba "It's the coach and the organization just not understanding what value of a guy like this, what they paid for."..."You can have a Ferrari, but you drive it 30 miles an hour...what's the use?!" Same can be said regarding Obi.

https://www.tmz.com/2021/12/03/kenny...w-york-knicks/
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Old 12-03-2021, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
And he’s -7 on the +/- scale. What does that mean?

Should he play more? Or less?

Hmmmm
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What is your point? I don't think anyone is saying +/- in any single game is a big deal. Particularly with limited minutes. But over the course of a season, I think it has value.

Do you watch the Knicks games? Obi definitely makes them better and plays full effort every play (which goes a long way in my book). He is a human highlight reel, even in limited minutes. Most importantly, he is a Dayton Flyer and has represented us with nothing but class. I can't understand why anyone on UDPride wouldn't be "all in" rooting for Obi to do well and get more playing time.
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Old 12-03-2021, 08:55 AM
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I always thought that Obi was at his best when sharing the court with a teammate who is a big physical presence like Randle. I've always thought it draws defensive physicality away from Obi, and frees him up for cuts to the basket, where he is exceptional.

The NBA has way too much "1 on 1" mentality. The more the ball and the players move on offense, the better Obi looks. The NBA is offensively lethargic, and the Knicks especially. The NBA mentality is to spread the floor and let the stars go 1 on 1. Star players jog up and down the court because they play a ton of games, the games are long and they make a gazillion dollars in guaranteed contract money.

I only can say this because I have been watching the Knicks play the last two years. Otherwise, I have no interest in the NBA. It is not entertaining. It's not good basketball. I would much rather watch an Iowa State play team basketball or the 2019-20 Flyers turn the college basketball world upside down by having a balanced, unselfish offense.

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  #235  
Old 12-03-2021, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by superfan99 View Post
What is your point? I don't think anyone is saying +/- in any single game is a big deal. Particularly with limited minutes. But over the course of a season, I think it has value.

Do you watch the Knicks games? Obi definitely makes them better and plays full effort every play (which goes a long way in my book). He is a human highlight reel, even in limited minutes. Most importantly, he is a Dayton Flyer and has represented us with nothing but class. I can't understand why anyone on UDPride wouldn't be "all in" rooting for Obi to do well and get more playing time.
Plenty of UDPriders use the +/- on a game-by-game basis to justify saying he should play more. I wholeheartedly disagree with the use of +/- for anything but toilet paper, and wanted to point out that the stat, if used that way, should be used both ways.

I think Obi should play 30+ mpg. Why Thibs doesn't is beyond me, because like many here, I watch every game and think the starting 5 doesn't gel well and - quite honestly - is boring. Rose and Obi should play more, with Robinson on the bench.
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Old 12-03-2021, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Swampy Meadows View Post
Obi came in with 3+ minutes to go in the 1Q after there was some heated disputes and a Taj Gibson ejection. He has 6 points so far in 11 minutes:

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...75296828624897

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...77645940977670

https://twitter.com/TheKnicksWall/st...78182434340865
Thank God that I don't EVER watch the NBA because if I had to watch effort like the guy on the Bulls gave going to double the post in this third clip it would drive me crazy.
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  #237  
Old 12-03-2021, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Plenty of UDPriders use the +/- on a game-by-game basis to justify saying he should play more. I wholeheartedly disagree with the use of +/- for anything but toilet paper, and wanted to point out that the stat, if used that way, should be used both ways.

.
Come on man, your smarter than that! You know the +/- over multiple games is a good indicator of a guys value on the court. Last night was like only the 2nd game in at least the last 15 where Obi was minus and Randle was not.
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Old 12-03-2021, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
You know the +/- over multiple games is a good indicator of a guys value on the court.
Wins and Losses are the best indicator....that's what the King uses.

Randall puts up 30 pts, 12 rbs and 6 assists...yet has a -2...Rose puts up 16 pts and 6 assists and has a -14...Robinson can't play defense and puts up a +7. Caruso for the Bulls put up a +21 on 2/7 shooing, 0/3 on 3s and 4 TOs...DeRozen put up 34 pts on 12/19 shooitng and 10/11 FTs...and got a -3...further supporting the royal stance.

It's possible that the +/- is a strong indicator of who you're on the court with and lesser related to how an individual is performing? Yup.

So is the +/- good?? Or good for nothing!? I think you know how I feel.

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Old 12-03-2021, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Wins and Losses are the best indicator....that's what the King uses.

Randall puts up 30 pts, 12 rbs and 6 assists...yet has a -2...Rose puts up 16 pts and 6 assists and has a -14...Robinson can't play defense and puts up a +7. Caruso for the Bulls put up a +21 on 2/7 shooing, 0/3 on 3s and 4 TOs...DeRozen put up 34 pts on 12/19 shooitng and 10/11 FTs...and got a -3...further supporting the royal stance.

It's possible that the +/- is a strong indicator of who you're on the court with and lesser related to how an individual is performing? Yup.

So is the +/- good?? Or good for nothing!? I think you know how I feel.

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KR- as I mentioned above, just watch a Knicks game when Mitch is in and pay close attention to the right side of your TV screen as the Knicks are getting back on defense; 99% of the time you’ll see a ‘laboring’ Mitch trailing all the other players. THAT’S how effective Mitch is on defense; it’s laughable to suggest he’s playing better defense or is more valuable on offense than Obi. Laughable…
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Old 12-03-2021, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Wins and Losses are the best indicator....that's what the King uses.

Randall puts up 30 pts, 12 rbs and 6 assists...yet has a -2...Rose puts up 16 pts and 6 assists and has a -14...Robinson can't play defense and puts up a +7. Caruso for the Bulls put up a +21 on 2/7 shooing, 0/3 on 3s and 4 TOs...DeRozen put up 34 pts on 12/19 shooitng and 10/11 FTs...and got a -3...further supporting the royal stance.

It's possible that the +/- is a strong indicator of who you're on the court with and lesser related to how an individual is performing? Yup.

So is the +/- good?? Or good for nothing!? I think you know how I feel.

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Even if it was a solid metric, which it isn't, it's still apples and oranges. Player B +/- against 2nd stringers has very little to no correlation to what it would be if he played vs. the first stringers.
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Old 12-03-2021, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Plenty of UDPriders use the +/- on a game-by-game basis to justify saying he should play more. I wholeheartedly disagree with the use of +/- for anything but toilet paper, and wanted to point out that the stat, if used that way, should be used both ways.

I think Obi should play 30+ mpg. Why Thibs doesn't is beyond me, because like many here, I watch every game and think the starting 5 doesn't gel well and - quite honestly - is boring. Rose and Obi should play more, with Robinson on the bench.
Thanks for the clarification. I took your original message as a shot at Obi, when you were actually just taking a shot at +/- stats. I love Obi and think he is getting hosed with regard to playing time, don't care about +/- stats. Carry on.
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Old 12-03-2021, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
And he’s -7 on the +/- scale. What does that mean?

Should he play more? Or less?

Hmmmm
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Plenty of UDPriders use the +/- on a game-by-game basis to justify saying he should play more. I wholeheartedly disagree with the use of +/- for anything but toilet paper, and wanted to point out that the stat, if used that way, should be used both ways.
Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Wins and Losses are the best indicator....that's what the King uses.

Cool, cool. And since the Nets are 15-6, leading the east, with Kyrie Irving on the bench, that means they're a better team without him. As you said, wins and losses the best indicator. Nothing else needed to compliment that.

Obi has been less effective at improving the team's situation over the last couple of games and his +/-, as one indicator of this effectiveness, has shown it. Hopefully it's not a troubling sign that more minutes = less effective.

When you play almost the entire game like Randall, your +/- is likely going to reflect the entire game. The Knicks lost by 4, and his +/- was -2. But when you only play 18 minutes, the statistic is more likely to reflect what happened during your shifts. At -6 (per Yahoo sports this morning), honestly, not good.

Who cares if you go 4-6 while the guy you're guarding goes 5-5, all from 3 point range?? Is Obi entirely responsible for that--no. And as I've said previously, maybe Thibs is actually only playing him when he's likely to be successful.
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Old 12-03-2021, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Cool, cool. And since the Nets are 15-6, leading the east, with Kyrie Irving on the bench, that means they're a better team without him.
We don't know if the Nets would be better or worse. For all we know, they'd be 6-15 with him playing.

What we do know is that Obi is the most energetic and exciting player the Knicks have had in a long time and that the fans want to see more of him. What we also know is that the coach is in charge and likes Obi playing 14-18 mpg. Finally, we also know that nothing is going to change unless Obi or Thibs leave.

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Old 12-03-2021, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
We don't know if the Nets would be better or worse. For all we know, they'd be 6-15 with him playing.

What we do know is that Obi is the most energetic and exciting player the Knicks have had in a long time and that the fans want to see more of him. What we also know is that the coach is in charge and likes Obi playing 14-18 mpg. Finally, we also know that nothing is going to change unless Obi or Thibs leave.

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But, wins and losses are the best indicator. You're saying we don't know what the Nets record would be if Kyrie played. So we also don't know what the Knicks record would be if Obi played 30 minutes per game with me at point guard. I mean, we don't know. Right?

Or maybe we don't know for sure, but, we have some stats that indicate a pretty good idea.
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Old 12-04-2021, 10:46 AM
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What we also know is that Thibs has been NBA Coach of the Year twice, which means he can squeeze more out of a team than others expect. So maybe he knows what he’s doing.

In the meantime, I’d like to see Obi playing 30 mpg. What does he need to do to earn those minutes is the question.
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Old 12-04-2021, 11:00 AM
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I'm sorry, Rollo, but just because Thibs has been NBA Coach of the Year twice does not justify his current coaching record. I am not taking issue with Obi's playing time. I am taking issue with the team and the lack of offensive strategy other than run and shoot, no pass, no screens, no pick and rolls . . . just run and shoot. That is good coaching?

Thibs has reached his level of incompetence. The game has moved on beyond him.
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  #247  
Old 12-04-2021, 10:25 PM
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Obi shot poorly but got 20 minutes and was one of only 2 players who had a positive +/-. Nerlans Noel -24. That will hurt your psyche.
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  #248  
Old 12-04-2021, 10:57 PM
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Knicks second last in assists last season. This season big improvement. 4th from last ahead of OKC, Toronto and Detroit.
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