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  #1  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:12 PM
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Fire Grant

I’ll post it since udscott won’t

How do you not get either sissiko or Holmes in the game down the stretch?
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  #2  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:13 PM
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I've already posted it in several threads. He has to go now. If you wait until the end of the season we lose the whole roster. It should have been after last game.
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  #3  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:16 PM
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Really. UFB.
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  #4  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:23 PM
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Amzil, Holmes and Sissoko - combined 2 points in the second half. Yes, I know there was foul trouble, but they combined to play 25 minutes.
  #5  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:25 PM
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Something is not right. This is not who Grant is......call it a rebuilding year immediately to save face or reiterate it if it's been said. Wondering if he's feeling okay? Seriously. This is really really bad.
  #6  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:25 PM
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Went thru the 2nd half plays.....[I]missed[I] 10 3's when we had a lead of 5 or more. I doubt Grant said at half-time "OK boys, let's start chuck'n".
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  #7  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by CoffeeCan View Post
Amzil, Holmes and Sissoko - combined 2 points in the second half. Yes, I know there was foul trouble, but they combined to play 25 minutes.
You cannot fire players. Nor are they responsible. The coach is responsible and must be held accountable.

You cannot be allowed to lose three buy games in a row. It simply cannot be allowed. Someone has to be held accountable and that person is the coach. Get someone else in there to coach the talent before it all leaves to play somewhere with a good coach.
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Old 11-20-2021, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
Went thru the 2nd half plays.....[I]missed[I] 10 3's when we had a lead of 5 or more. I doubt Grant said at half-time "OK boys, let's start chuck'n".
Then thatís on him for allowing it. He is the coach. He is the one that gets the blame. Thatís what a leader does and is there for.
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  #9  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Sitdowndigger View Post
Something is not right. This is not who Grant is......call it a rebuilding year immediately to save face or reiterate it if it's been said. Wondering if he's feeling okay? Seriously. This is really really bad.
It is not unprecedented, he went 13-19(7-11)in his 5th year at Alabama.
  #10  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
Then thatís on him for allowing it. He is the coach. He is the one that gets the blame. Thatís what a leader does and is there for.
Absolutely with you.
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  #11  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
You cannot fire players. Nor are they responsible. The coach is responsible and must be held accountable.

You cannot be allowed to lose three buy games in a row. It simply cannot be allowed. Someone has to be held accountable and that person is the coach. Get someone else in there to coach the talent before it all leaves to play somewhere with a good coach.
Problem with the coach, no problem. Thinking you can replace the coach and that will keep players who signed on to play for him, when they don't have to sit out a year transferring? STUPID!!! The only way we keep these players is if AG turns it around, he doesn't they're gone, he leaves, they're certainly gone.
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  #12  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:31 PM
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You guys are funny and are disregarding several factors in a so-called premature departure. One factor is AGís contract. Someone/anyone please explain to me how will UD/boosters have the funds to honor a negotiated buyout as well as offer a new coach a substantial amount? Clay Mathile is not walking through those doors to bail them out this time and Larry Connor has more important ventures. WaitÖJohn Gruden may be able to help $$$.

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  #13  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Problem with the coach, no problem. Thinking you can replace the coach and that will keep players who signed on to play for him, when they don't have to sit out a year transferring? STUPID!!! The only way we keep these players is if AG turns it around, he doesn't they're gone, he leaves, they're certainly gone.
That isn't going to happen. If they are transferring anyway then get someone in here who can coach them while we have them.

You have to send a message right now that this is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Period.
  #14  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Ready Action View Post
You guys are funny and are disregarding several factors in a so-called premature departure. One factor is AGís contract. Someone/anyone please explain to me how will UD/boosters have the funds to honor a negotiated buyout as well as offer a new coach a substantial amount? Clay Mathile is not walking through those doors to bail them out this time.
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You mean the University's reluctance to eat the contract.
  #15  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
That isn't going to happen. If they are transferring anyway then get someone in here who can coach them while we have them.

You have to send a message right now that this is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Period.
BS! They signed on more because of the coach that signed them than any other factor. They will leave if a different coach is put in place. They have options and they aren't going to give up the option of choosing who to play for.
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  #16  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
BS! They signed on more because of the coach that signed them than any other factor. They will leave if a different coach is put in place. They have options and they aren't going to give up the option of choosing who to play for.
They are going to leave anyway if we wait to fire Grant until after the season. What don't you understand about that?
  #17  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:39 PM
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Does Chase Johnson have any eligibility left?
Hell, I will take Xerious back.
Just anything to stop the pain.
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  #18  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Problem with the coach, no problem. Thinking you can replace the coach and that will keep players who signed on to play for him, when they don't have to sit out a year transferring? STUPID!!! The only way we keep these players is if AG turns it around, he doesn't they're gone, he leaves, they're certainly gone.
No problem we go to transfer portal and get 5 guys who left their P5 conference team
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Old 11-20-2021, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
They are going to leave anyway if we wait to fire Grant until after the season. What don't you understand about that?
They will leave for sure if the coach they chose to play for is replaced by someone who had nothing to do with recruiting them. What don't you understand about that? They had many coaches show interest in them during the recruiting process. They aren't going to stay for someone who didn't. What else do you think draws them? The Dayton's beautiful scenery? The famous Dayton night life? The great weather? Dayton enormous media market?
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Old 11-20-2021, 05:45 PM
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Next time get the thread title correct itís FIRE AG
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  #21  
Old 11-20-2021, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
They will leave for sure if the coach they chose to play for is replaced by someone who had nothing to do with recruiting them. What don't you understand about that? They had many coaches show interest in them during the recruiting process. They aren't going to stay for someone who didn't. What else do you think draws them? The Dayton's beautiful scenery? The famous Dayton night life? The great weather? Dayton enormous media market?
Who cares? Let them go. You don't understand the new landscape of college basketball. Teams can be built from scratch in months.

The problem is you have to have the coach to coach them. We don't. Continuing with this man is absolute program suicide I promise you. And he will be fired after the season. So why not fire him now?
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Old 11-20-2021, 05:50 PM
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Grace year......very very very very short leash next. Roster young, on paper talented, suppose to be at least. Still the three L's should not have happened to those teams....I can't even type them, I feel sick.
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Old 11-20-2021, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
Who cares? Let them go. You don't understand the new landscape of college basketball. Teams can be built from scratch in months.

The problem is you have to the coach to coach them. We don't. Continuing with this man is absolute program suicide I promise you. And he will be fired after the season. So why not fire him now?
Yeah, grabbing 5 transfers who've never played together will turn things around. Lacking continuity is never an issue right? The hope is this team turns it around and provides confidence for everybody, players especially, that they will be a force next season. Anything other than that and you dump potentially the best recruiting class in program history. I'm not willing to do that.

This team has talent, they have to gel and get experience. You want to throw out the baby with the bath water. You're ridiculous.
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Old 11-20-2021, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
Next time get the thread title correct itís FIRE AG
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I had to change it so I didnít get to many red blips
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Old 11-20-2021, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Yeah, grabbing 5 transfers who've never played together will turn things around. Lacking continuity is never an issue right? The hope is this team turns it around and provides confidence for everybody, players especially, that they will be a force next season. Anything other than that and you dump potentially the best recruiting class in program history. I'm not willing to do that.

This team has talent, they have to gel and get experience. You want to throw out the baby with the bath water. You're ridiculous.
Excuse me talent ? They have not showed any so far, so letís stick with facts at this point and not your opinion
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Old 11-20-2021, 05:58 PM
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Old 11-20-2021, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by udscott View Post
Excuse me talent ? They have not showed any so far, so letís stick with facts at this point and not your opinion
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You really think that talent is keeping these guys from winning? It's lack of experience, lack of continuity and maybe lack of good coaching of an inexperienced team. But so far, last year we saw talent from Amzil and Zimi, this year we've seen at least glimpses of it from RJ, DaRon, Camara, Mali, Greer and today Sissoko. It's there, they just have to become cohesive and smarter.
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  #28  
Old 11-20-2021, 06:04 PM
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Yes AG is great for UD, great for players, perhaps a great guy. Great guys are not always great coaches. Salaries are paid for results. AG understands this.

Last year and so far this year has been ridiculous. If last year didn't happen I wouldn't be thinking we will have a big losing season this year.
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Old 11-20-2021, 06:06 PM
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They will not fire him at the end of this season. In addition to any buy outs or financial reasons, the school will be sending any future head coaching prospects, and more importantly, their agents, a message. Have a young team, have one bad season, even if you are a distinguished alum with NBA connections, you will be immediately dismissed. No self-respecting coach will come here if thatís the message.
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Old 11-20-2021, 06:08 PM
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I'm done arguing with people that cannot face reality. I hate to question someone's passion but anyone willing to defend this man further does not want what's best for the program. You aren't arguing in good faith.

I'll continue to watch because I've only missed single digit games in almost 20 years, but there is absolutely no outcome that will change anything for me. Good luck fellas.

Hawkoooo is taking an extended leave.
  #31  
Old 11-20-2021, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
I'm done arguing with people that cannot face reality. I hate to question someone's passion but anyone willing to defend this man further does not want what's best for the program. You aren't arguing in good faith.

I'll continue to watch because I've only missed single digit games in almost 20 years, but there is absolutely no outcome that will change anything for me. Good luck fellas.

Hawkoooo is taking an extended leave.
Awww, please, wait, listen, next time just leave without the drama. We don't care if you stay or go.
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Old 11-20-2021, 06:13 PM
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Old 11-20-2021, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyerferd View Post
They will not fire him at the end of this season. In addition to any buy outs or financial reasons, the school will be sending any future head coaching prospects, and more importantly, their agents, a message. Have a young team, have one bad season, even if you are a distinguished alum with NBA connections, you will be immediately dismissed. No self-respecting coach will come here if thatís the message.
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You don't actually believe this do you?
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  #34  
Old 11-20-2021, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyerferd View Post
They will not fire him at the end of this season. In addition to any buy outs or financial reasons, the school will be sending any future head coaching prospects, and more importantly, their agents, a message. Have a young team, have one bad season, even if you are a distinguished alum with NBA connections, you will be immediately dismissed. No self-respecting coach will come here if that’s the message.
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One bad season? What do you call every year other than the 19-20 season? Or are we telling future coaching candidates that one good year means you get a longterm contract?
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Old 11-20-2021, 06:22 PM
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I'm beginning to get the impression that Hawkoooo may be indicating that he is in favor of a coaching change.
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Old 11-20-2021, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
One bad season? What do you call every year other than the 19-20 season? Or are we telling future coaching candidates that one good year means you get a longterm contract?
4-6 bad at Alabama
3-5 bad at UD
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Old 11-20-2021, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
@parlaypyle
KenPom #200+ losses

Gregory: 2
Miller: 3
Grant: 11
Embarrassing and insane.
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Old 11-20-2021, 07:53 PM
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Very telling and insightful data point.
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Old 11-20-2021, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
@parlaypyle
KenPom #200+ losses

Gregory: 2
Miller: 3
Grant: 11
I intend to research your figures
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Old 11-20-2021, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
I intend to research your figures
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Figgie probably has it.
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Old 11-20-2021, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Figgie probably has it.
I have my sources as well- of course- no context was given
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Old 11-20-2021, 08:14 PM
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Ridiculous to fire anyone at this point
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Old 11-20-2021, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Ridiculous to fire anyone at this point
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Agree 100%. These entitled fans have no idea what the pit off hell is; I do, its called the early to mid 1990ís
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Old 11-20-2021, 08:19 PM
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Look, Iím not happy. My one bad season refers to what is happening this year. I did not take into account previous head coaching gigs. As far as last year goes, I have given a pass to just about every coach in every sport. Lots of times, you didnít know what personnel you would have and what personnel you would be facing until literally a ball was tipped or kicked off, if it was tipped or kicked off in the first place. Iím also taking into account that I donít get to make this decision, and I am simply predicting what people in those positions would do. Now, this junk continues into next year? All bets are off.
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Old 11-20-2021, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
I'm done arguing with people that cannot face reality. I hate to question someone's passion but anyone willing to defend this man further does not want what's best for the program. You aren't arguing in good faith.

I'll continue to watch because I've only missed single digit games in almost 20 years, but there is absolutely no outcome that will change anything for me. Good luck fellas.

Hawkoooo is taking an extended leave.
Just take a day or two off, that might help. Otherwise, take a longer break if you need it.

Last edited by ud2; 11-20-2021 at 09:52 PM..
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Old 11-20-2021, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Agree 100%. These entitled fans have no idea what the pit off hell is; I do, its called the early to mid 1990ís
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Per David Jablonski Twitter
If Dayton doesn't win Thursday, it will be the worst start since it was 0-5 in the 4-26 season of 1992-93

So we are possibly headed back there
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Old 11-20-2021, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by hawkoooo View Post
I've already posted it in several threads. He has to go now. If you wait until the end of the season we lose the whole roster. It should have been after last game.
And you think if we fire him, we won't lose the roster? That's more likely than kids leaving because of a losing season
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Old 11-20-2021, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
And you think if we fire him, we won't lose the roster? That's more likely than kids leaving because of a losing season
Exactly. At least if he stays, players might take personal responsibility for the failures and not put total blame on their coach. He leaves, we are at total rebuild.
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Old 11-20-2021, 10:26 PM
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With no sit years we’re going to lose people either way. We’re also going to bring people in. The issue I see is that it’s harder to bring in good players after a bad season. I hope I’m wrong and we turn it around but I don’t have a good feeling.
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Old 11-20-2021, 11:12 PM
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Colgate wins at Syracuse!! Fire the Syracuse coach!!! NOW!!!
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Old 11-20-2021, 11:23 PM
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Boeheim has needed to retire for a while now. He also probably hasnít lost 3 buy games in a row at home. Regardless, it has nothing to do with the horrific coaching happening at UD Arena
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Old 11-21-2021, 12:05 AM
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But I am sure there are ďfansĒ at Syracuse saying the exact same things that are being said here.
We are not Gonzaga, wonít be in my lifetime, and wonít be in the Big East. We are exactly where we should be at this point in time.
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Old 11-21-2021, 09:09 AM
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If COVID restrictions are placed in Montgomery County again, will UD refund us for the remaining home games? A King can dream, canít he?
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Old 11-21-2021, 09:40 AM
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I like Grant a lot, he is an alumni who played at Dayton, has recruited extremely likable guys who are easy to root for and he seems like a genuinely good guy off the court. And I would love it if he could pull off some kind of miracle and turn this season around.

But if he really is such a poor coach and needs to be fired. It might be best if itís a spectacular flame out that leaves zero doubts in anyoneís mind that itís time to move on. And the start of this season is exactly how that scenario would begin.

(But with this being only 2 seasons removed from coach of year I think heíll get next year too no matter how bad it gets)
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Old 11-21-2021, 09:41 AM
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We can't "get old and stay old".
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Old 11-21-2021, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
If COVID restrictions are placed in Montgomery County again, will UD refund us for the remaining home games? A King can dream, can’t he?
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Covid or no Covid, a partial refund is already in order. The product on the floor is not commensurate with the price that has been paid by season ticket holders. Evidenced by the fact there is ZERO demand for my unused tickets on Ticketmaster, which I had priced way below the face value. Dam, I could not even give them away last game. Paying for six lower bowl tix with the license seat fee is no small investment on my part given that I am semi-retired and every year I struggle with the decision to keep them all.

And on top of the horrible display of basketball we are seeing on the floor we now have to endure the hassle of E-tickets, no more courtesy programs for every game, and as always, hugely overpriced concession food.

If the UD Men's basketball program was a retail product that had failed so miserably, there would be a recall, a class action lawsuit, etc. If it was a stock, the SEC would be investigating for investor fraud.

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Old 11-21-2021, 10:29 AM
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Going through the JOB years, I feel like I am being JOBBED all over again! I now need some remedial therapy because my PTSD from those years has returned!

Last edited by O Doyle Rules; 11-21-2021 at 10:31 AM..
  #58  
Old 11-21-2021, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cj View Post
But I am sure there are ďfansĒ at Syracuse saying the exact same things that are being said here.
We are not Gonzaga, wonít be in my lifetime, and wonít be in the Big East. We are exactly where we should be at this point in time.
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We should be 1-3 after losing 3 consecutive buy games at home? Well that's really lowering your expectations. But whatever works for you to get through these dark times.
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  #59  
Old 11-21-2021, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by O Doyle Rules View Post
Going through the JOB years, I feel like I am being JOBBED all over again! I now need some remedial therapy because my PTSD from those years has returned!
I posted a few of these "Feels' like JOB again" and if you weren't there in those years you can't imagine it. But you can get a feel for it by just having witnessed the last 3 games.

JOB's teams never seemed to learn from their mistakes or maybe it was the coaches' mistakes ...
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Old 11-21-2021, 12:29 PM
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Fire Grant

This post personifies everything that is wrong with social media and our country, in the big picture. The hateful posts are sad and do not represent the vast majority of UD fans. Just a vocal minority with a keyboard.

I will be in Orlando rooting for the Flyers. All you cynics simply turn on your favorite cable news program or web site and enjoy your life.

Go UD
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  #61  
Old 11-21-2021, 12:31 PM
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performance, performance, performance ... are you buying or selling?
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Old 11-21-2021, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by do54 View Post
This post personifies everything that is wrong with social media and our country, in the big picture. The hateful posts are sad and do not represent the vast majority of UD fans. Just a vocal minority with a keyboard.

I will be in Orlando rooting for the Flyers. All you cynics simply turn on your favorite cable news program or web site and enjoy your life.

Go UD
Thanks. I will not be attending the games in Orlando.
  #63  
Old 11-21-2021, 12:44 PM
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Not sure where to post this so here goes ...

There have been postings discussing the reasons to what we have seen so far. Those are lack of experience, or large number of new players playing together for the first time, etc., YET

The more I read about the make up of either the teams we have lost too or teams that have won playing in other parts of the country it appears that not all but some have excelled with similar characteristics.

These other teams have as their main players, freshmen or many starters are transfers, or the team is led by a first year head coach, etc and on and on.

So why do we have what we have as a result? There was a full pre-season practice and development NO COVID excuses here now.

Players not playing as coached? Players not putting effort in? It can't all be the staff's fault.

Human nature tells me that as things spiral down either in game or as the season progresses, these players will want to be the hero. NOBODY likes to lose! They will try one on one to make that shot. Unfortunately, that leads to poor shot selection, forcing defense leading to making fouls, not trusting fellow team mates.

It goes down hill unless the staff can handle the players between game action.

Will they control it, more importantly, CAN they control it?

Going 0 fer in the up-coming ESPN Event can provide the push to - never never land ...
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  #64  
Old 11-21-2021, 12:53 PM
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Rats Scurrying to the Top

I never dreamed I would see this many people with such ridiculous ideas on a UD Flyer board. We are less than two years removed from the Flyers being a top five team, not in the conference, but THE NATION! We had one of the best recruiting efforts the team has ever had, including a top 50 recruit, the highest rated recruit to sign with UD. The biggest fault, if you want to call it a fault, is our youth. We have one of the youngest teams in the country, and typically start two freshmen, with others coming off bench that have little to no playing experience, and thanks to COVID what little experience they had is not like your typical Flyer experience. We also have a transfer that could play for most programs, probably starting for most. So how did we get here? Not because Coach Grant suddenly lost the ability to coach, but because of COVID and the gaps in recruiting classes, left by previous coaching staffs. When Archie left there were a couple of classes that were overloaded and in two seasons we had a complete turnover in personnel. This young group of Flyers have an enormous upside and are competing in every game. They are growing and will eventually come into their own and weíll be proud of the team they have become, but it will take time. This group of young men are making enormous strides and Iíve enjoyed seeing what each have brought to the team. If we can keep the core group together the talent we have will help us climb back to the top, competing for a national championship. Will it be this year, NO! Next, probably not, but we need to support these young men and the mentor we have provided them. He has demonstrated his ability to coach at the highest levels and recruit the best talent. Now we need to allow him to teach and grow this group of young men into a team I think weíll all be proud of, not act like a bunch of rats scurrying to the top of a sinking ship. This is not a sinking ship, itís a new ship being built right in front of our eyes! (Sorry for the long post.)
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  #65  
Old 11-21-2021, 01:04 PM
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sooo many on this board who will defend mediocrity for this program its not even funny. just sad.

let people vent, let people be upset...they deserve it. we deserve better than this. the being young excuse doesn't work. covid isn't an excuse either, the transfer portal is a thing...expect a bunch of players to be entering that once the season is up if things don't turn around.

players don't wait...just the reality of the game these days.

you don't think there aren't other programs out there ready to poach our guys? you're kidding yourself if not.

calling people who are upset with this performance so far rats...its a joke.

let me make it clear: THIS PROGRAM SHOULD NEVER LOSE TO CHICAGO LOWELL...EVER. EVER.

if you're ok with that...and make excuses about youth, covid...god knows what else. YOU ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY.

be happy you get to be in the arena and watch hoops...clap because they tried their best and let everyone else be ****ed off.
  #66  
Old 11-21-2021, 01:16 PM
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We are 354th of 358 teams in three-point percentage. And we played all our games at home! If we played any away there is little doubt weíd be last. Who recruited these guys? Who allows them to shoot threes without consequences?
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  #67  
Old 11-21-2021, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08 View Post
sooo many on this board who will defend mediocrity for this program its not even funny. just sad.

let people vent, let people be upset...they deserve it. we deserve better than this. the being young excuse doesn't work. covid isn't an excuse either, the transfer portal is a thing...expect a bunch of players to be entering that once the season is up if things don't turn around.

players don't wait...just the reality of the game these days.

you don't think there aren't other programs out there ready to poach our guys? you're kidding yourself if not.

calling people who are upset with this performance so far rats...its a joke.

let me make it clear: THIS PROGRAM SHOULD NEVER LOSE TO CHICAGO LOWELL...EVER. EVER.

if you're ok with that...and make excuses about youth, covid...god knows what else. YOU ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY.

be happy you get to be in the arena and watch hoops...clap because they tried their best and let everyone else be ****ed off.
Mediocrity!! Iíd take that now. We are no where near mediocre!!!! This is a full on dumpster fire based on bad estimation of talent and then a complete failure to get the best out of what little we have.

Poaching should be encouraged. We should send out heavily edited videos of guys like the Kobeís making shots and delete all the bricks, and opponents blowing by them. Hope someone poaches several soon. The only way we improve is get out a big broom and start over. But maybe we should listen to those expecting the guys to turn into Devin Oliver. Iím still waits for how good London Warren was going to be once he got a deadly outside shot.
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  #68  
Old 11-21-2021, 01:28 PM
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No one is accepting mediocrity. Just looking for explanations.

Positives of Greer back, Mali development are good. Toucans will be good, once guards realize his value and stick to game plan.

Seems like too many guys NOT sticking to the game plan. Specifically Brea and Weaver. And others. First half game plan worked. Plus we were up 5 at 4 minutes remaining.

Young players get 3 happy. Def saw that sloppiness last year. It cannot continue. , At same time a good 3 I'd one created by a pg, a kickoff or just good ball movement. Mali and Greer and Weaver all need to keep recognizing and implementing this.

Let's hope zimi helps when he returns. Most likely, it will take him 2 or 3 games to get his game legs and shooting right, after being out. Big learning curve. Got learn quickly!
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Old 11-21-2021, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic08 View Post
sooo many on this board who will defend mediocrity for this program its not even funny. just sad.

let people vent, let people be upset...they deserve it. we deserve better than this. the being young excuse doesn't work. covid isn't an excuse either, the transfer portal is a thing...expect a bunch of players to be entering that once the season is up if things don't turn around.

players don't wait...just the reality of the game these days.

you don't think there aren't other programs out there ready to poach our guys? you're kidding yourself if not.

calling people who are upset with this performance so far rats...its a joke.

let me make it clear: THIS PROGRAM SHOULD NEVER LOSE TO CHICAGO LOWELL...EVER. EVER.

if you're ok with that...and make excuses about youth, covid...god knows what else. YOU ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY.

be happy you get to be in the arena and watch hoops...clap because they tried their best and let everyone else be ****ed off.
My favorite is many of the rose-colored glass crew that make all the excuses for AG/UD performance (and all the excuses and conspiracy theories against UD and mid-majors, refs screw us, etc) are the same ones that rail on social/economic/political issues the old "work hard and you will succeed" and "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" and anybody that doesn't is just lazy. Can't have it both ways.
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  #70  
Old 11-21-2021, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 312to937 View Post
My favorite is many of the rose-colored glass crew that make all the excuses for AG/UD performance (and all the excuses and conspiracy theories against UD and mid-majors, refs screw us, etc) are the same ones that rail on social/economic/political issues the old "work hard and you will succeed" and "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" and anybody that doesn't is just lazy. Can't have it both ways.
If this were a seasoned group of upper-classmen, I'd be panicked; it isn't, not even close. I lived through the JOB era, why it took the UD administration like 3 years to make the ultimate decision it made is beyond me. Mostly I think it was out of stubbornness to prove that JOB WAS the right hire. At any rate, if there isn't appreciable improvement as the season goes on, the heat will be on by early summer if no improvement by next year, you'll all get your wish. One thing is for certain, AG is no JOB and I'm still betting he turns it all around, maybe at the expense of a few players leaving. I'm a long term hold; AG has proven he can coach and recruit. He doesn't pass, dribble or shoot but I'm certain he'll find the right combination of players that follow the plan. If you all want to jump ship, go ahead.
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  #71  
Old 11-21-2021, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
If this were a seasoned group of upper-classmen, I'd be panicked; it isn't, not even close. I lived through the JOB era, why it took the UD administration like 3 years to make the ultimate decision it made is beyond me. Mostly I think it was out of stubbornness to prove that JOB WAS the right hire. At any rate, if there isn't appreciable improvement as the season goes on, the heat will be on by early summer if no improvement by next year, you'll all get your wish. One thing is for certain, AG is no JOB and I'm still betting he turns it all around, maybe at the expense of a few players leaving. I'm a long term hold; AG has proven he can coach and recruit. He doesn't pass, dribble or shoot but I'm certain he'll find the right combination of players that follow the plan. If you all want to jump ship, go ahead.
I really think the JOB years played out as you would expect for a coach being hired and than fired with the results he produced. When Don Donoher left, he had 3 losing seasons in a row for the first time in his career. College basketball was changing and it took it's toll on Donoher's last few seasons. So the Flyers were trending downward. JOB comes in and gets us a conference tourney championship plus an NCAA win in his first season using Donoher's players. It was a senior filled team and when they left, the cupboard was bare. So JOB was given 4 more seasons, the first two that provided the same type of results that got Donoher fired. It was year 4 when we dropped into single digit wins. Maybe he should've been fired then but they gave him one more season to right the ship and again single digit wins. Probably based on his contract, they had to give him that one last season.

I know people think it was all JOB's fault and maybe it was(not sure either way) but what do you think it was that JOB was lacking in? Was it his recruiting or his coaching? I lean more toward his recruiting.
  #72  
Old 11-21-2021, 03:22 PM
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the NCAA database
has updated their team stats,

Dayton is 324th in 3pt defense, opponents shooting 40.9%
We are 346th in the nation in 3pt shooting 22.78%
we are 252nd in 2pt fg defense, opponents shooting 44.09%

DaRon Holmes blocking is superb,
27th in blocks per game 2.75/game
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  #73  
Old 11-21-2021, 03:38 PM
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With this no sit out transfer rule the fix is quicker than ever

The team is going to take its lumps this season but figure out who the future is by the end of the season.

Surely a couple people will hit the portal. Unless the recruit from Mongolia is the next Obi I'd hit the portal looking for two upperclassman who can come in from day one and start

This team needs shooting, find a guard who can shoot it to plug in next year

Maybe look at a veteran PG to bridge the transition or pull a Chatman and play alongside Elvis/Mali
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  #74  
Old 11-21-2021, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by do54 View Post
This post personifies everything that is wrong with social media and our country, in the big picture. The hateful posts are sad and do not represent the vast majority of UD fans. Just a vocal minority with a keyboard.

I will be in Orlando rooting for the Flyers. All you cynics simply turn on your favorite cable news program or web site and enjoy your life.

Go UD
I agree that in total social media is a big pile of fecal matter. It's rigged with positive feedback to trip your endorphins and suck you into a constant waste of time scrolling endlessly through worthless crap. Hiding behind a user name a spewing hate is just weakness, pure and simple.

That being said, how are you any better using a faux name? How do you know satisfied posters are a silent majority? Exactly how do you know there are not an equally upset group of fans that are not happy? Why are people (as posted) who have tickets not going to the games already? You seem pretty confident - share the facts. How does the performance over the past five years match up to the commitment to facilities and total budget?

There several camps:

1) it OK to have a big year and reload.
2) we want to get to the Xavier, Gonzaga, level, where we constantly dominate our conference.
3) some just like to gripe (woof woof)
4) and on and on.

Choose you poison. It's pretty easy to see who is in which camp.

It doesnt matter, the only camp that matters is the administration. If their happy with AG's body of work, then fans should recognize what that is and (re)act accordingly.
  #75  
Old 11-21-2021, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
How do you know satisfied posters are a silent majority? Exactly how do you know there are not an equally upset group of fans that are not happy? Why are people (as posted) who have tickets not going to the games already? You seem pretty confident - share the facts. How does the performance over the past five years match up to the commitment to facilities and total budget?
There are thousands of UD fans not on this message board. Thousands that have season tickets and don't even know what UD Pride is.

The actual butts in seats yesterday afternoon wasn't even close to a sellout. The interest that some people had to buy into 400 seats is wearing thin already. How about a handful of us that couldn't give away 2 good seats and a parking pass yesterday? That is a sign of things to come if this team doesn't get it together.

I will be there engaging in 7 dollar beers all season. But the days of my days revolving around making to the games will wean off...just like they will with many others.
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  #76  
Old 11-21-2021, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Ready Action View Post
You guys are funny and are disregarding several factors in a so-called premature departure. One factor is AGís contract. Someone/anyone please explain to me how will UD/boosters have the funds to honor a negotiated buyout as well as offer a new coach a substantial amount? Clay Mathile is not walking through those doors to bail them out this time and Larry Connor has more important ventures. WaitÖJohn Gruden may be able to help $$$.
And who ya gonna replace him with? To be good in college basketball, you have to recruit good players. To be elite in college basketball, you have to recruit elite players. Whatever his shortcomings are, AG has brought in some good talent. Who would come to UD who would be a better coach, and also a good recruiter?
  #77  
Old 11-21-2021, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I really think the JOB years played out as you would expect for a coach being hired and than fired with the results he produced. When Don Donoher left, he had 3 losing seasons in a row for the first time in his career. College basketball was changing and it took it's toll on Donoher's last few seasons. So the Flyers were trending downward. JOB comes in and gets us a conference tourney championship plus an NCAA win in his first season using Donoher's players. It was a senior filled team and when they left, the cupboard was bare. So JOB was given 4 more seasons, the first two that provided the same type of results that got Donoher fired. It was year 4 when we dropped into single digit wins. Maybe he should've been fired then but they gave him one more season to right the ship and again single digit wins. Probably based on his contract, they had to give him that one last season.

I know people think it was all JOB's fault and maybe it was(not sure either way) but what do you think it was that JOB was lacking in? Was it his recruiting or his coaching? I lean more toward his recruiting.
I'm not sure the game had "passed by DD" as some think but he definitely had lost his team by at least the 3rd losing year in a row if not sooner. The players left from DD actually had started their senior year poorly and IIRC had a team meeting just prior to reeling off a bunch of wins and the rest is history. JOB was given a lot in terms of patience the next few years but losing Chip Jones hurt and then the slide began. Once the whirlpool starts down, it's hard to convince a recruit to come in and turn the ship around. It didn't help that during the last few years of the MWCC that X, Butler and Evansville became really good and then Dayton gets invited to the short lived GMWC where you had the likes of Louisville, Cincinnati, DePaul, Marquette, Memphis, ugh....and Dayton got slaughtered.

Summary IMHO for JOB: Cocky coach with no head coaching experience and not enough connections to right the ship nor save his job (pun intended) and what is left for us old timers that remember...deeply scarred brain tissue and years of psychotherapy to the point where even a 13-13 record going into a season felt like hope: AMEN

Edit: Little known fact is that Ryan Perryman was actually recruited by JOB and not Purnell; I know that for fact as I was corrected by his Perryman's mom once in an email directly to me (I was railing on JOB, a common practice for me at that time and she caught wind of it when I gave Purnell credit for landing her son).

Last edited by longtimefan67; 11-21-2021 at 05:07 PM..
  #78  
Old 11-21-2021, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
I'm not sure the game had "passed by DD" as some think but he definitely had lost his team by at least the 3rd losing year in a row if not sooner. The players left from DD actually had started their senior year poorly and IIRC had a team meeting just prior to reeling off a bunch of wins and the rest is history. JOB was given a lot in terms of patience the next few years but losing Chip Jones hurt and then the slide began. Once the whirlpool starts down, it's hard to convince a recruit to come in and turn the ship around. It didn't help that during the last few years of the MWCC that X, Butler and Evansville became really good and then Dayton gets invited to the short lived GMWC where you had the likes of Louisville, Cincinnati, DePaul, Marquette, Memphis, ugh....and Dayton got slaughtered.

Summary IMHO for JOB: Cocky coach with no head coaching experience and not enough connections to right the ship nor save his job (pun intended) and what is left for us old timers that remember...deeply scarred brain tissue and years of psychotherapy to the point where even a 13-13 record going into a season felt like hope: AMEN

Edit: Little known fact is that Ryan Perryman was actually recruited by JOB and not Purnell; I know that for fact as I was corrected by his Perryman's mom once in an email directly to me (I was railing on JOB, a common practice for me at that time and she caught wind of it when I gave Purnell credit for landing her son).
I can't say the game passed DD by but adjustments in his recruiting and style of play were probably needed. Whether he could make those adjustments we'll never know because he wasn't given the chance. I just thought that JOB did a great job(pun unintended) as far as coaching goes in his first season with DD's players. Made me think to this day was his recruiting. And I had no idea that he recruited Perryman. Great recruit, but probably isn't the same Perryman if JOB also was responsible for his supporting cast.
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Old 11-21-2021, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by OregonMike View Post
And who ya gonna replace him with? To be good in college basketball, you have to recruit good players. To be elite in college basketball, you have to recruit elite players. Whatever his shortcomings are, AG has brought in some good talent. Who would come to UD who would be a better coach, and also a good recruiter?
Who knows who it could be till they get the chance.

Every great coach starts somewhere. Bill Self took over Tulsa after 4 years of .500 ball at Oral Roberts
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Old 11-21-2021, 05:26 PM
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If AG could go out and land two guys in the Ibi Watson/Cooke/Cunningham/Seibert/Sanford tier of production he could be back in business as soon as next year.
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Old 11-21-2021, 05:26 PM
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Fair to say that one NBA guy made JOB look much better as a coach than he actually was?
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  #82  
Old 11-21-2021, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
If AG could go out and land two guys in the Ibi Watson/Cooke/Cunningham/Seibert/Sanford tier of production he could be back in business as soon as next year.
No thanks on Cooke. We need team players
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Old 11-21-2021, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
No thanks on Cooke. We need team players
Of the players he listed, the only one I could see raising us out of the funk is Sibert. He can shoot the 3 and do other things. Ibi is a terrible ballhandler and very inconsistent. I have no idea how Cunningham helps and Vee is a nice leader and good player, but not so good that he could lift this team out of a funk. And Cooke? Good lord, to this day I wish he was never a Flyer. He's the worst kind of player you can add to a team that's proven they play team ball and win. He'd be even worse added to a team in need of team play.

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Old 11-21-2021, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by TN Flyer View Post
So how did we get here? Not because Coach Grant suddenly lost the ability to coach, but because of COVID and the gaps in recruiting classes, left by previous coaching staffs. When Archie left there were a couple of classes that were overloaded and in two seasons we had a complete turnover in personnel.
This would have been the 4th season at UD for Dwayne Cohill, Frankie Policelli, and Chase Johnson. That's what caused the recruiting gap, not Archie.
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Old 11-21-2021, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Fair to say that one NBA guy made JOB look much better as a coach than he actually was?

Great point!
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Old 11-21-2021, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
This would have been the 4th season at UD for Dwayne Cohill, Frankie Policelli, and Chase Johnson. That's what caused the recruiting gap, not Archie.
CHASE was a very HUGE loss.

Frankie not so much
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Old 11-21-2021, 05:49 PM
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Last year, at Stony brook, which is now a very respectable program. Policelli shot 31% from 3.
10 points a game. 27 min a game.
84% FT.

NOT bad but not high mid major level
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Old 11-21-2021, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
If AG could go out and land two guys in the Ibi Watson/Cooke/Cunningham/Seibert/Sanford tier of production he could be back in business as soon as next year.
Out of that group, I think Iíd take a 2.0 of Sibert, Sanford, or Watson, in that order. We need TEAM players who can shoot and play perimeter D, in that order. Jordan and Vee check all 3 boxes, and Ibi checks 2 of 3.
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Old 11-21-2021, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
This would have been the 4th season at UD for Dwayne Cohill, Frankie Policelli, and Chase Johnson. That's what caused the recruiting gap, not Archie.
OMG, someone is actually blaming Archie for AG's 5th season? Now that's ridiculous.

I said it before, but I'll repeat it. AG's over dependence on transfers rather than freshman recruits in 2019-2020 is what left us unbalanced. Now when I say over dependence, it's not a bad thing because 2 of those transfers were key depth and one was a starter in getting us the 3rd ranked team in the country(Chase being the one who didn't). But they are gone now as they played out the 4 year string and justifiably didn't use that extra year the NCAA handed out to play at UD.

And I'm guessing if AG didn't have so many guards coming in this season with Brea and RJ left over from last season, plus Weaver, Cohill would've stayed.

AG made his own bed here. Personally, I can't blame him for the direction he took, but that's what's left us unbalanced this season. Not Archie Miller, Brian Gregory, Oliver Purnell, JOB or Don Donoher. Good lord, I can't believe someone went there with that.
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Old 11-21-2021, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
This would have been the 4th season at UD for Dwayne Cohill, Frankie Policelli, and Chase Johnson. That's what caused the recruiting gap, not Archie.
and some guy named Obi Toppin would be a senior if my math is correct.
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Old 11-21-2021, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
and some guy named Obi Toppin would be a senior if my math is correct.
Yes, and that one is definitely AG's fault. He made him too good, too soon. AG shoulda known better.
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Old 11-21-2021, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
This would have been the 4th season at UD for Dwayne Cohill, Frankie Policelli, and Chase Johnson. That's what caused the recruiting gap, not Archie.
Great point. 2 of those guys would probably have been Senior starters on this team, bringing the continuity and poise that has been missing so far this year. Not saying weíd be 4-0, but I doubt weíd be 1-3.
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Old 11-21-2021, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86 View Post
CHASE was a very HUGE loss.

Frankie not so much
Don't forget Cohill, he was on his way to being a UD hall of famer...
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Old 11-21-2021, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Don't forget Cohill, he was on his way to being a UD hall of famer...
lol, I guess if Darrell Davis had left after his junior year, you could've made the same comment about him. There's something special that usually happens with players that start getting more playing time as they reach their 3rd and 4th seasons within the same program. It happens more often than not.
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Old 11-21-2021, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Fair to say that one NBA guy made JOB look much better as a coach than he actually was?
One NBA player as we've seen, can make anyone's job a lot easier. I think last year we saw that not having Obi made it so much tougher for Crutcher; his drives to the hoop were easier to shut down, not nearly as easy a 3 point shot.

This is why coach "K" has always been so successful at Duke. Easy to be top 10 every single year when you have your picks of the top Hamburger players.
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Old 11-21-2021, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
This would have been the 4th season at UD for Dwayne Cohill, Frankie Policelli, and Chase Johnson. That's what caused the recruiting gap, not Archie.
Looking back, while I agree that losing the entire Cohill/Johnson/Policelli class has had an impact on this season, it does bear mentioning that Archieís last team had major class imbalance. There were 4 Seniors (SS, KP, KD, & CC), 1 Junior (DD), 5 Sophs (RM, XW, SM, JC, & JC), and 2 Frosh (TL & KA, who was Redshirted). When 60% of that Sophomore class washed-out, it left Anthony with only 5 serviceable players from Archieís last team as his foundation, and 1 of those (Kostas) mailed-in 3/4 of the 1 season he did play.

Given. Anthony owns where we are now, but he did start with 1 foot nailed to the floor, figuratively speaking.
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Old 11-21-2021, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Looking back, while I agree that losing the entire Cohill/Johnson/Policelli class has had an impact on this season, it does bear mentioning that Archie’s last team had major class imbalance. There were 4 Seniors (SS, KP, KD, & CC), 1 Junior (DD), 5 Sophs (RM, XW, SM, JC, & JC), and 2 Frosh (TL & KA, who was Redshirted). When 60% of that Sophomore class washed-out, it left Anthony with only 5 serviceable players from Archie’s last team as his foundation, and 1 of those (Kostas) mailed-in 3/4 of the 1 season he did play.

Given. Anthony owns where we are now, but he did start with 1 foot nailed to the floor, figuratively speaking.
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Well, what you're saying is he was left with 1 senior, 5 juniors and 2 sophomores(and 4 or 5 freshman where only Jordan Davis and Svoboda stayed. Plus that big guy that got one minute of playing time and left). And of course his own recruit of Crutcher with Obi red shirting. That in itself is not out of balance. However, when you bring in a new coach, from outside the previous regime, and that coach has totally different basketball style and is more of a disciplinarian, most players aren't going to work out. AG is lucky that the no sit transfer rule wasn't in effect then or he would've had a terrible time trying to field a team at all.

And lets be honest, the players AM recruited probably would've fit AM's system better and played better for him. We went through a normal transfer of regime. It's almost always ugly. In this case, it was ugly in year one. In BG and AM's years it was ugly in year two. There's going to be a bad year, and it's better it be your first, rip off the band aid and go through it asap. But if the ugliest year is year 5? No, you cannot look back at year one and find a correlation.

Let's also remember two things happened that if they didn't, the AG years would've looked a lot uglier. If Crutcher had chosen to stay at Chatanooga(or gone elsewhere) or Mikesell hadn't been injured, we wouldn't have had a great PG and Mikesell wouldn't have been here in our greatest season.

But one more thing about AM's recruiting classes. They weren't unbalanced for him. He staggered his recruiting every other year which gave us either a class heavy with Freshman and Juniors or heavy with Sophomores and Seniors. Starting in 2013 we had the big 3 of Davis, Smith and Kendall. In 2014 Darrell with Big Steve red shirting. 2015 another big class with Crosby, Mikesell, Williams and Miller. 2016 only Trey. And in 2017 he had 4 or 5 new freshman coming in. He was pretty consistent that way.

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Old 11-21-2021, 07:28 PM
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Look the angst with us is we didn’t get our due 2 years ago and being in the National Lime light feels great. We simply have trouble sustaining that consistent NCAA contender which makes like him or not what Archie did special. Clearly The Big East appears to open for business so chalk this year under bad timing. On that front it will come down to money and that keeps us in the game but a great year would have helped. The clear issue here is the youth and the staff misjudged there lack of being ready to compete. I know for a fact the staff etc are suprised where we are. The 2 transfers have been average at best. So let’s see who has balls and will compete, who are the keepers and then we HAVE TO ADD at least 2 strong older transfers to make a quick turn around next year. Grant showed last nite he is willing to change things up so I like that. However his in game coaching can improve and he has said he needs to get better so let’s hope that’s part of the discussion. It appears that we have some freshman who will click and become strong players here. The number one issue is the GUY…who is the go to. We don’t have one and that’s my main issue, had to have that guy , cannot count on freshman. So on my way to Orlando, actually excited to see these kids play in this environment and see if we can take a leap forward. Is what it is but they need to grow up Faster!
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Old 11-21-2021, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
Don't forget Cohill, he was on his way to being a UD hall of famer...

no longer here and you felt
the urge for a smart remark...
let it go
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Old 11-21-2021, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by flybye View Post
Look the angst with us is we didn’t get our due 2 years ago and being in the National Lime light feels great. We simply have trouble sustaining that consistent NCAA contender which makes like him or not what Archie did special. Clearly The Big East appears to open for business so chalk this year under bad timing. On that front it will come down to money and that keeps us in the game but a great year would have helped. The clear issue here is the youth and the staff misjudged there lack of being ready to compete. I know for a fact the staff etc are suprised where we are. The 2 transfers have been average at best. So let’s see who has balls and will compete, who are the keepers and then we HAVE TO ADD at least 2 strong older transfers to make a quick turn around next year. Grant showed last nite he is willing to change things up so I like that. However his in game coaching can improve and he has said he needs to get better so let’s hope that’s part of the discussion. It appears that we have some freshman who will click and become strong players here. The number one issue is the GUY…who is the go to. We don’t have one and that’s my main issue, had to have that guy , cannot count on freshman. So on my way to Orlando, actually excited to see these kids play in this environment and see if we can take a leap forward. Is what it is but they need to grow up Faster!
The big east isn’t taking us next year. They won’t be taking us the following year either if we don’t correct this ship. They have no need for dayton but we have every need for them.

I’d also like to hear more about your fact that the staff is surprised. Are they that bad at evaluating talent?
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