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View Poll Results: We blew a 12-point lead and it's _______ Fault!
Grant - subbing pattern is confusing 31 62.00%
Mali Smith - 5 fouls 4 pts 0 0%
Mustafa 1/6 shooting 0/4 on 3s 9 18.00%
Blackney 3 pts 1 2.00%
Weaver 0/3 on 3s 5 10.00%
Refs 1 2.00%
UD Faithful...too many stayed home to watch OSU destroy MSU 3 6.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 11-20-2021, 07:54 PM
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Golden No Lead is Safe Award - Loss to APSU

The Golden No Lead is Safe Award goes to...

'nuf said...just vote.
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  #2  
Old 11-20-2021, 08:16 PM
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you need to have a choice of:
the coach AND the players...
I vote for that
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  #3  
Old 11-20-2021, 08:24 PM
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LOL
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Old 11-20-2021, 08:31 PM
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Iíve been complaining since Day 1 that Mustafa should be starting, but the more he plays, the less I think that would solve anything.
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  #5  
Old 11-20-2021, 08:37 PM
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AG had Holmes and Sissoko on the bench with four fouls down the stretch. Made no sense since we were being abused by that freshman center both inside and at the line. Amzil canít play the post and Camara was tentative with foul troubles of his own. Amafuale (however thatís spelled) sits 40 minutes with five to give? Iím rooting for Grant, I really am, but yeah, his substitutions made no sense to me. When the game is on the line, let your post players foul out if need be, but make the opposition beat your best.

We had 35 minutes of energetic play today, and I liked seeing Grant put his athletes to work with what was an effective press. But this end of the game head-scratching-stuff has to stop.

Oh, and we need shooters. Not to mention lessons on how to defend the three.
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  #6  
Old 11-20-2021, 08:42 PM
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I have a feeling that Weaver is going to be a nightmare for us during this transition of young players learning. I don't trust him to make the right choices and think he's going to turn into Kevin Dillard(his senior year) where he feels he has to be the hero anytime he touches the ball. That end game against Lowell planted that seed and I think he's the type that plays self-centered basketball and will use the situation of having young players around him learning to try and become the Flyers version of Michael Jordan.
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  #7  
Old 11-20-2021, 08:43 PM
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yep all that.... the Coach
the players for being 3 for 20 3 pt range
and not defending the 3....

all of em
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  #8  
Old 11-20-2021, 10:05 PM
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We were 1-10 taking 3's in the 2nd half while we were leading by 5+. That's after going 1-8 in the first half. Players should get it for zero basketball IQ, and the coaches for not pulling them back to the game plan that worked in the 1st half.
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  #9  
Old 11-20-2021, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I have a feeling that Weaver is going to be a nightmare for us during this transition of young players learning. I don't trust him to make the right choices and think he's going to turn into Kevin Dillard(his senior year) where he feels he has to be the hero anytime he touches the ball. That end game against Lowell planted that seed and I think he's the type that plays self-centered basketball and will use the situation of having young players around him learning to try and become the Flyers version of Michael Jordan.
100% agree. His body language says it all.
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  #10  
Old 11-20-2021, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I have a feeling that Weaver is going to be a nightmare for us during this transition of young players learning. I don't trust him to make the right choices and think he's going to turn into Kevin Dillard(his senior year) where he feels he has to be the hero anytime he touches the ball. That end game against Lowell planted that seed and I think he's the type that plays self-centered basketball and will use the situation of having young players around him learning to try and become the Flyers version of Michael Jordan.

I've also been getting that same feeling. Dillard is back.
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  #11  
Old 11-20-2021, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
We were 1-10 taking 3's in the 2nd half while we were leading by 5+. That's after going 1-8 in the first half. Players should get it for zero basketball IQ, and the coaches for not pulling them back to the game plan that worked in the 1st half.
Def This!
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  #12  
Old 11-20-2021, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Iíve been complaining since Day 1 that Mustafa should be starting, but the more he plays, the less I think that would solve anything.
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Is there a bigger sophomore slump in recent memory
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  #13  
Old 11-20-2021, 10:52 PM
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The refs were bad but that shouldn’t be the determining factor in a buy game
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Old 11-20-2021, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Flyer View Post
The refs were bad but that shouldnít be the determining factor in a buy game
Agree, but they certainly played a major part in this loss. I've never seen the Flyers get jobbed so much on their home court in a buy game ever. Those two Ts were as ticky-tack as you can get. I can see the call if the players are going at each other like this a lot and he wants to nip it in the bud before it grows into something worse, but this was mild and totally out of line for a T. With that said, Brea should've taken notice when it was called on Mali and not test the ref a 2nd time. He needs disciplined for that.

But, as you said, this game shouldn't have come down to that.
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Old 11-21-2021, 12:04 AM
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Two games in a row we get beaten by the other teams freshman! Tommy Murr of Lipscomb nails 5/5 from 3 and the AP freshman center kills us inside. Were either of these two guys on our recruiting radar? The Murr kid avgd 44ppg his jr & sr years in HS & set Ga state scoring record. How does Lipscomb lure him away from a bigger program? The AP big guy played like an upperclassman. How does AP lure him away from a bigger program? How do these smaller schools land multiple three-point shooters while we have 11 freshman and not a single reliable trey shooter in the lot? We have no go-to guy at crunch time.
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Old 11-21-2021, 12:15 AM
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Unbelievably, Tommy Murr only received one D1 offer from Lipscomb. He went to a small, rural high school and was overlooked and disrespected by bigger programs. He would have looked great in a Dayton uniform.
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Old 11-21-2021, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Don View Post
Two games in a row we get beaten by the other teams freshman! Tommy Murr of Lipscomb nails 5/5 from 3 and the AP freshman center kills us inside. Were either of these two guys on our recruiting radar? The Murr kid avgd 44ppg his jr & sr years in HS & set Ga state scoring record. How does Lipscomb lure him away from a bigger program? The AP big guy played like an upperclassman. How does AP lure him away from a bigger program? How do these smaller schools land multiple three-point shooters while we have 11 freshman and not a single reliable trey shooter in the lot? We have no go-to guy at crunch time.
I really think this has a lot to do with the new transfer rule of no-sit. I truly believe that you're going to see players that would normally go to better basketball schools, signing with these nobodies as a way of getting playing time until the bigger schools are ready to give them big minutes in their 2nd and 3rd seasons. And as Clayton brought up, he could see a situation where the P5s tell them that they would like them, but they should go to Nobody-U for a year of polishing before they are ready for them. Clayton saw that as the near future, maybe it's taking place now.

Especially the guy from AP. Their head coach was a Duke assistant for the past 20 years or something under Coach K, maybe he's getting future Duke players to start off his head coaching career.
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Old 11-21-2021, 12:43 AM
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I voted for Grant subbing pattern is confusing. I too was wondering why Holmes wasn't in the game down the stretch. At the beginning of the second half we doubled up on their big center and thats when we got a lead (coupled with a full court press). We lost because our young players are making too many bad decisions. Heck, Brea even slipped and fell down which resulted in a four or five point swing. Then he gets T'd up for being over zealous even though he knew the refs had just T'd up Malachi Smith.

I know this is all on Anthony Grant and he has said that he own it. I think it will be interesting to see if he rights the ship as the season progresses. Sooner or later the players have to learn from their mistakes and keep turnovers down to single digits instead of 15 or 20 as I have been advocating.

I was at the game today and I actually thought the offense we ran in the first half today was good. The players just need to keep it up for two halves now.
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Old 11-21-2021, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I really think this has a lot to do with the new transfer rule of no-sit. I truly believe that you're going to see players that would normally go to better basketball schools, signing with these nobodies as a way of getting playing time until the bigger schools are ready to give them big minutes in their 2nd and 3rd seasons. And as Clayton brought up, he could see a situation where the P5s tell them that they would like them, but they should go to Nobody-U for a year of polishing before they are ready for them. Clayton saw that as the near future, maybe it's taking place now.

Especially the guy from AP. Their head coach was a Duke assistant for the past 20 years or something under Coach K, maybe he's getting future Duke players to start off his head coaching career.
Very odd to see a 4 star player at Austin Peay. He had 10 p5/BE offers.
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Old 11-21-2021, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Very odd to see a 4 star player at Austin Peay. He had 10 p5/BE offers.
Nate James had been an assistant under Coach K for 12 seasons. He's 44 years old. Don't you find it odd that when he finally gets his first head coaching job, it comes in Coach K's last season and at Austin Peay? Wouldn't you think someone who paid their dues as long as he has under the premiere college basketball team and coach, would be able to land something better? Heck, his qualifications look a heck of a lot better than BGs and AMs did when they took their first job and they got UD.

I think the P5 might be taking advantage of using farm teams right before our very eyes. Obviously teams like Dayton, VCU, Loyola and other high mid-majors aren't willing to be delegated to just that. They have goals of competing with the P5 teams and being competitive and periodically taking them down. But teams like AP? This might look like an opportunity to raise their programs. They never had dreams of final fours etc..., being a farm club that holds the P5 4 stars for a year or two would be a huge step up in quality basketball for them.

Just throwing it out there because I think it's coming in the future, but hell, if Clayton and I can think of this now, I'm sure the leader's of the P5 schools and conferences thought of this a lot sooner than we did.
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Old 11-21-2021, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Nate James had been an assistant under Coach K for 12 seasons. He's 44 years old.
So what is the story? A quid pro quo? Duke tells AP: if you hire James as hc, we will steer some of our recruits to you for a year or two, after which they will transfer to Duke.

How many 4 star players has AP ever had as a freshman? Can't be that many, if any. Very strange.

AP is in the OVC. I highly doubt anybody in the OVC is getting 4 star recruits as freshmen other than maybe, and that's a big maybe, Belmont and Murray State.

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Old 11-21-2021, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
So what is the story? A quid pro quo? Duke tells AP: if you hire James as hc, we will steer some of our recruits to you for a year or two, after which they will transfer to Duke.

How many 4 star players has AP ever had as a freshman? Can't be that many, if any. Very strange.

AP is in the OVC. I highly doubt anybody in the OVC is getting 4 star recruits as freshmen other than maybe, and that's a big maybe, Belmont and Murray State.
Yeah, not sure how it's all structured and again, just a suspicion. But my theory on how it would be set up is they are planting developmental coaches in these schools. Instead of Nate Jones going out and finding players that fit his system(he can do that too), the P5 evaluates the players they want(make a deal with) and send them to the developmental coach who's the best fit. These become great starting jobs for first time coaches and maybe older coaches that want wind down their careers at a smaller school.

So, let's say you have developmental coaches at School A B C...Z Now say KY has a 4 star center and a 4 star SG that they want in years 2 through 4. Maybe they tell Center "Go spend a year under Nate Jones" (School A) and tell SG to go to a different coach who's a better fit for their development(School B). Duke, Louisville, Kansas, etc... could all be using these same coaches/schools.

If kosher with the NCAA, why wouldn't the Austin Peays of the college basketball world jump at this chance? And it creates a new prime position for highly sought-after first time coaches.

And just like in the real world, the Rich get Richer, the poor get handouts and the middle class aka mid-majors get screwed.
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Old 11-21-2021, 09:16 AM
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Old 11-21-2021, 09:20 AM
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Great analysis, Smitty10. I can exactly see that as a situation developing before our very eyes. The core recruiting strategy that built the success weíve had for much of the past decade (get players out of HS that you can develop for 4 years, complemented by P5 transfers who werenít getting PT at their old schools) has been turned upside-down, practically overnight. What UD needs to do to counter that, Iím not sure.
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Old 11-21-2021, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
There are some really strange and creative posts on this blog!
even if it doesn't work, I would
like the same strange and creative
effort by the coach...

kidding, then
not kidding....)
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Old 11-21-2021, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Is there a bigger sophomore slump in recent memory
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Darrell Davis.
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Old 11-21-2021, 11:49 AM
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I said it in the early season last year and I'll say it again this year. Why does it always seem that everyone else's frosh are more game ready than ours early in the season? I'm not saying that our won't eventually bypass them but why aren't they ready too early in the season? This year's frosh are better than last year's at this point but still as good as some of our opponent's frosh.
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Old 11-21-2021, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Great analysis, Smitty10. I can exactly see that as a situation developing before our very eyes. The core recruiting strategy that built the success weíve had for much of the past decade (get players out of HS that you can develop for 4 years, complemented by P5 transfers who werenít getting PT at their old schools) has been turned upside-down, practically overnight. What UD needs to do to counter that, Iím not sure.
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Quite a few years back (OK many many years ago) I remember a time when DD was HC and he had been struggling in the W-L columns, he discussed that they had waited to offer scholly's to players only to discover that players they had been after had already accepted an offer someplace else. The had to scramble to get players in the program (often finding players that were frankly [my word may not be his] that were less then ideal.

Only a bit later than what was happening in other programs did the staff change their approach.

Could have been the conservative style and slant that the program had, but contributed to some of the issues UD had in those few years. Why it took a few recruitment periods to change the approach who knows?

Does any other poster remember that?
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Old 11-21-2021, 12:04 PM
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Except for the UD Faithful, I'd vote for the whole dam lot of them on the list plus a few more ....

Plus a double vote on the ref's, both on the court and one who was NOT there.

Rollo I'm talkin' to you my man!
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Old 11-21-2021, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I said it in the early season last year and I'll say it again this year. Why does it always seem that everyone else's frosh are more game ready than ours early in the season? I'm not saying that our won't eventually bypass them but why aren't they ready too early in the season? This year's frosh are better than last year's at this point but still as good as some of our opponent's frosh.
All these guys are playing tournament and AAU year round. Lots of great players discovered by the lesser D1s and Lioscombs therefore. Why not us? Why aren't these guys ready?

Has to be their attitude or coaching prep, imho
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Old 11-21-2021, 12:12 PM
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The good news.

1. We played fairly well in the first half
2. Like greens time and Mali
3. Some inside out ball movement developing.
4. Tou Camara with some good touches and points
5. Sissoko breakout and boards

Please add any positives you saw.
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Old 11-21-2021, 12:31 PM
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Flyer Fans Learned a Valuable Lesson

with the loss to Austin Peay. We learned that player rankings coming out of High School are completely bogus. Elijah Hutchins-Everett had 28 points and 14 rebounds. What on earth was his ranking? Please spare us any future mention of "the best recruiting class in Dayton history". The rankings mean nothing once on campus. The same organizations that bring us
faulty news commentary create this misleading information.
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Old 11-21-2021, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
Yeah, not sure how it's all structured and again, just a suspicion. But my theory on how it would be set up is they are planting developmental coaches in these schools. Instead of Nate Jones going out and finding players that fit his system(he can do that too), the P5 evaluates the players they want(make a deal with) and send them to the developmental coach who's the best fit. These become great starting jobs for first time coaches and maybe older coaches that want wind down their careers at a smaller school.

So, let's say you have developmental coaches at School A B C...Z Now say KY has a 4 star center and a 4 star SG that they want in years 2 through 4. Maybe they tell Center "Go spend a year under Nate Jones" (School A) and tell SG to go to a different coach who's a better fit for their development(School B). Duke, Louisville, Kansas, etc... could all be using these same coaches/schools.

If kosher with the NCAA, why wouldn't the Austin Peays of the college basketball world jump at this chance? And it creates a new prime position for highly sought-after first time coaches.

And just like in the real world, the Rich get Richer, the poor get handouts and the middle class aka mid-majors get screwed.
Ok - awesome! Sounds like the perfect solution for UD. Since we already lost three straight buy games I think we can qualify as "poor" and get the handouts. We sign-up to be one these "minor league" programs. Fire AG and hire an assistant coach from Duke (or Kentucky, or Michigan, etc). One of the complaints about playing in the "minor leagues" is the facilities suck. Well, we have great facilities so we would be the top minor league program. Constant rotation of P5 talent rolling in. Layer that in with the local glue guys like Landers and Mikesell that stay four/five years. We'll give you all the credit.
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Old 11-21-2021, 01:42 PM
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Weaver

is best represented by his number zero. That pretty much describes his contributions to date for this young season. He has a very poor handle for a guard and seems to be a turnover machine. He has little or no arc on his tray shot or foul and is a sub-par defender. He can however be quick to the basket and makes his layups. IMHO he needs less playing time because Smith Greer and Elvis are better.
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Old 11-21-2021, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
There are some really strange and creative posts on this blog!
Hey, all I can say is there's no proof now, but if it's happening, it will be obvious in a few years. Take a look at who were the top dogs that are listed under interest for Everett-Hutchins and see if he winds up there in a year or two. See if similar situations are happening for others at the same schools. The dark-blue bloods and the light blue-bloods have shown that they will do anything they can to keep mid-majors from taking their spots in the NCAA tourney and have threatened to leave the NCAA for their own umbrella.

They were not happy that the best they could do was one and dones top 20 recruits while the mid-majors had the great equalizer of 4 year players. Getting rid of the transfer sit rule has tilted the playing field much more toward their liking. You don't think they will take advantage of those rules?

Being able to go out and find players with experience to fill holes without having to sit them for a year has tilted the playing field already. Being able to know which players you're going to get to transfer one or two years ahead of time and having them train under a coach with the same style basketball would tilt the playing field even more. You don't think if they were allowed to do that they wouldn't?

And my theories aren't based on conspiracy, I doubt that my theory is against NCAA rules.
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Old 11-21-2021, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 312to937 View Post
Ok - awesome! Sounds like the perfect solution for UD. Since we already lost three straight buy games I think we can qualify as "poor" and get the handouts. We sign-up to be one these "minor league" programs. Fire AG and hire an assistant coach from Duke (or Kentucky, or Michigan, etc). One of the complaints about playing in the "minor leagues" is the facilities suck. Well, we have great facilities so we would be the top minor league program. Constant rotation of P5 talent rolling in. Layer that in with the local glue guys like Landers and Mikesell that stay four/five years. We'll give you all the credit.
Nice assumption that the Landers and Mikesells will stay at UD for four/five years under the new rules. Or that Landers and Mikesells would find UD a great starting point if they changed their strategy to just be a farm team for the blue bloods.

I laid out a theory I think is plausible based on new rules. Please, instead of your sarcasm, give me a reason it won't happen? At the same time explain to me why Nate Jones is at Austin Peay with credentials that put him ahead of BG and AM when they got UD?

This is not an excuse for the Flyers losing to them, shouldn't have happened as you could see if the Flyers had played their game and not deviated from it in the second half, they were the better team playing on their home court. I'm just giving a reason as to why these teams are tougher opponents now than they would've been in the past and it's not all because UD has a bad basketball team at the moment.
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Old 11-21-2021, 03:31 PM
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Many problems but I think some of what we're seeing is after the Scooch to Crutcher transition being in the wilderness on PG play. Elvis and Mali have potential but they got tossed into the fire
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Old 11-21-2021, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Many problems but I think some of what we're seeing is after the Scooch to Crutcher transition being in the wilderness on PG play. Elvis and Mali have potential but they got tossed into the fire
I don't know. The Flyers seemed to have trouble getting the ball to the interior in 3 of Jalen's 4 seasons. I think it has more to do with the other 4 guys not knowing what to do with the ball when they get it in their hands outside the paint. Until the open shot is found, players need to get the ball out of their hands asap to keep the defense off balance. I think the best example of this was our Elite Eight season and it was quite better during all the Dyshawn Pierre years than at anytime since. I think we're more in need of a player like that than a different or more experienced PG.
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Old 11-21-2021, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty10 View Post
I don't know. The Flyers seemed to have trouble getting the ball to the interior in 3 of Jalen's 4 seasons. I think it has more to do with the other 4 guys not knowing what to do with the ball when they get it in their hands outside the paint. Until the open shot is found, players need to get the ball out of their hands asap to keep the defense off balance. I think the best example of this was our Elite Eight season and it was quite better during all the Dyshawn Pierre years than at anytime since. I think we're more in need of a player like that than a different or more experienced PG.
Amzil would be prime candidate to play the foul line entry Pierre role. Except I don't see Grant going that route. But who know.

I see it coming more from the pg theory mentioned above.
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Old 11-21-2021, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86 View Post
Amzil would be prime candidate to play the foul line entry Pierre role. Except I don't see Grant going that route. But who know.

I see it coming more from the pg theory mentioned above.
The reason they looked so fluid on offense in 2019-2020 wasn't just Obi(yes, he played the biggest part), Mikesell and Landers knowing what to do with the ball when it was in their hands was also key. So maybe he doesn't use a designated Pierre like AM did, but he needs more players like Ryan and Trey to facilitate the ball movement.
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Old 11-21-2021, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer 86 View Post
The good news.

1. We played fairly well in the first half
2. Like greens time and Mali
3. Some inside out ball movement developing.
4. Tou Camara with some good touches and points
5. Sissoko breakout and boards

Please add any positives you saw.
1) FT's
2) Offensive boards
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Old 11-21-2021, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Many problems but I think some of what we're seeing is after the Scooch to Crutcher transition being in the wilderness on PG play. Elvis and Mali have potential but they got tossed into the fire
I think my brother and I both agreed, Mali and LG3 looked much more like a pg than did Elvis. To us, Elvis looked like a solid 2 guard and play the point in a pinch but only in a pinch. I think LG3 is going to be solid and ditto MaliÖthese guys are young
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Old 11-21-2021, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
I think my brother and I both agreed, Mali and LG3 looked much more like a pg than did Elvis. To us, Elvis looked like a solid 2 guard and play the point in a pinch but only in a pinch. I think LG3 is going to be solid and ditto MaliÖthese guys are young
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agree Elvis isn't a PG. Doesn't seem comfortable in that roll

Weaver wanted to be a PG here but I don't think that's the role for him
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