Rogers

[The Gem]

It's looking like we won't see Detwon this year. That's too bad and I feel bad for him. If he leaves the program, what are his options. Can he play elsewhere?

[priceg75]

Probably could at another JUCO. That would be his only immediate option.

[Flyer 79]

I fully support giving Detwon every chance to overcome his challenges ... but I'm starting to imagine this will linger to the point that his first (and only) introduction to the UD Arena crowd will be next year on Senior Night.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Medford the last day to change grades is tomorrow.

The last day you can 'change' grades by simply asking your professor to re-evaluate your work is tomorrow...I have a student who is supposed to be submitting his grade-change justification to me tonite...and if I get it and agree, all I have to do is fill out a form and it's done...that easy.

You can still appeal grades after tomorrow, but it's done in a formal setting thru the Department Head/Dean.

Change vs Appeal...tomorrow vs 60 more days...

In other words, this may not be over.

[maddog07]

Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan Often, we have unrealistic expectations for athletes to be perfect. Never miss a shot. Never have a bad game. Don't party in college like we did. Get better grades than we did. Many athletes come from rough backgrounds and have life challenges that I cant imagine. Maybe the players could use some support and prayers.

We've been supporting and praying for months. God's not responsible for Detwon's paper. Time to cut bait. Better to invest in a kid that gives back. These kids have massive, massive scholastic support. Everything short of the North Carolina model, and still he can't pass under water basket weaving? We are already carrying an achedemic challenge in big Steve, but he's a freshman, Rogers should be an upper classman an know what is required, we are 2/3 of the season done, he's not going to play - Get him out!

[UDBrian]

Originally Posted by Flyer 79 I fully support giving Detwon every chance to overcome his challenges ... but I'm starting to imagine this will linger to the point that his first (and only) introduction to the UD Arena crowd will be next year on Senior Night.

That is an interesting thought, that someone who isn't playing would still be on the team and introduced on senior night.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by priceg75 Probably could at another JUCO. That would be his only immediate option.

WHAT?!

He already graduated from JUCO which are 2-year schools...so that route is no longer available. Nor is transferring to another D1 school as he'd have to sit out and due to issues when he left HS he doesn't have a year to give.

His only option - outside of returning to UD - is D3 as there are no sitting out requirements.

[shocka43]

Originally Posted by UDBrian That is an interesting thought, that someone who isn't playing would still be on the team and introduced on senior night.

If whatever issues are keeping him off the court this year aren't resolved, I highly doubt he will be in a uniform next year...whether it is his fault or not.

From all accounts and reading through the cryptic BS that has been discussed, it sounds as if the problem is multi-faceted and deals with physical limitations as well as classroom issues.

If the issue is 100% physical, then there isn't a school in the country that wouldn't release an anticipated return date of a player and there would be plenty of discussion on his status.

If the issue leans more towards an academic student issue, you aren't going to hear anything as it relates to the specifics of an academic issue. Considering the bad press that UD had with personnel, the last thing that UD wants to do is boot a kid for eligibility issues with grades. It is much easier to blow smoke for a couple more months, put out a press release a few weeks after the season indicating that DR and UD have parted ways, and the rest is history.

[Flyer2]

Originally Posted by rollo The last day you can 'change' grades by simply asking your professor to re-evaluate your work is tomorrow...I have a student who is supposed to be submitting his grade-change justification to me tonite...and if I get it and agree, all I have to do is fill out a form and it's done...that easy. You can still appeal grades after tomorrow, but it's done in a formal setting thru the Department Head/Dean. Change vs Appeal...tomorrow vs 60 more days... In other words, this may not be over.

Nice that they have a procedure now. Back in 64 when I was given a F on a paper and a D for final grade I went ballistic . Went to Father Roesch with complaint which was how could a A/B average go to a D on one paper. He asked what I wanted which was to have the head of the English department review my grades, and papers, if he wished. I did get several other students who were also getting screwed to complain. Prof would not show grade book so End result was his contract was not renewed. I did run into him later and told him I was the one.

[UDTradition]

Flyer2 - correction...he was the one! You make your bed and... I love accountability.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by Flyer2 Nice that they have a procedure now. Back in 64 when I was given a F on a paper and a D for final grade I went ballistic . Went to Father Roesch with complaint which was how could a A/B average go to a D on one paper. He asked what I wanted which was to have the head of the English department review my grades, and papers, if he wished. I did get several other students who were also getting screwed to complain. Prof would not show grade book so End result was his contract was not renewed. I did run into him later and told him I was the one.

Flyer2, your experience reminded me of one of my worst academic experiences at The U. August 1980, on Day 1 of advanced freshman English (ENG102, IIRC), the prof asked for what I'll call "rap sheets" on all of his students. You know? Where you're from, what HS you attended, what's your favorite movie, favorite food, etc. After everybody turned in their sheets, he read everyone's info to the entire class, and then he came to mine:

"Well, I see you like the same sports as all the other 18-year-old males in this class, you like the same TV shows and the same movies, and you're from Chaminade-Julienne, so what more do I need to say?"

And he looked at me with a sneer/smirk. I knew I was doomed, and for that entire semester, it didn't matter how much work I put in in his class. I could spend 4 hours on a 1-page paper. B-. I could spend 4 minutes on another 1-page paper. B. My mom was also a prof, in a different department, and from Day 1, I told her that I wanted to transfer to a different section of that class, but she advised me to tough it out, thinking I was overreacting. Of course, my final grade in that class was a B, and in the aftermath, my mom told me that was the worst advice she had given me in my 4 years of undergrad at UD. But I eventually got some "vicarious" revenge when, years later, I heard that the prof had to go on sabbatical, for "personal reasons" that, as the rumor mill had it, was a nervous breakdown. My immediate reaction was along the lines of "Serves you right, you b@$tard!"

Sorry about , but your story just hit too close to home, and I felt compelled to share mine.

[UDTradition]

T-Bone 84 - I love accountability !

[Figgie123]

Originally Posted by Medford There was an interesting theory posted by Tom Blackburn...

Theories from the Grave ... next time on "As the Flyers turn!"

[The Gem]

STOP THE ACADEMIC HAZING, IT'S ILLEGAL! Just kidding.

[priceg75]

Originally Posted by rollo WHAT?! He already graduated from JUCO which are 2-year schools...so that route is no longer available. Nor is transferring to another D1 school as he'd have to sit out and due to issues when he left HS he doesn't have a year to give. His only option - outside of returning to UD - is D3 as there are no sitting out requirements.

Thanks for the clarification. And by "clarification", I mean pointing out that my post was stupid. I acknowledge that I was posting faster than I was thinking.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by priceg75 Thanks for the clarification. And by "clarification", I mean pointing out that my post was stupid. I acknowledge that I was posting faster than I was thinking.

'Stupid' is subjective and mean and everyone knows I'd never say that about anyone*...

I believe you made the excusable mistake of misremembering where Rogers came from...

[UDTradition]

I'm confused. There's a lot of conflicting information on all of the boards.

Can anyone summarize the health and academic situation?

- is he physically able to play?
- is he potentially lacking confidence in his shaky knee?
- is he academically eligible?
- are his grades complete? if not when is the deadline?
- if he doesn't play at all this year (and the NCAA self-proclaimed diety allow a redshirt exception) will he play next year?
- if they do, does UD want to add a player that may never really play meaningful minutes clog up 2 scholarship years?
- has anyone who participates in the board actually talked to this kid? or talked to somebody who talked to somebody?
- is there really any hope this year, or next for that matter?

[Medford]

Originally Posted by Figgie123 Theories from the Grave ... next time on "As the Flyers turn!"

real name or not, but the guy who runs the Blackburn Review site, not the former coach.

[Medford]

Originally Posted by UDTradition I'm confused. There's a lot of conflicting information on all of the boards. Can anyone summarize the health and academic situation? - is he physically able to play? - is he potentially lacking confidence in his shaky knee? - is he academically eligible? - are his grades complete? if not when is the deadline? - if he doesn't play at all this year (and the NCAA self-proclaimed diety allow a redshirt exception) will he play next year? - if they do, does UD want to add a player that may never really play meaningful minutes clog up 2 scholarship years? - has anyone who participates in the board actually talked to this kid? or talked to somebody who talked to somebody? - is there really any hope this year, or next for that matter?

those who do know aren't talking much, so you likely won't get your answer. Really, I've long been to the point where I just assume he isn't going to play this year, and the odds of him ever playing for UD look slim.

[BRob2Perryman3]

My God, enough is enough!!!!!!!!!!! This dude is never going to suit up!!!!!

[CE80]

Originally Posted by BRob2Perryman3 My God, enough is enough!!!!!!!!!!! This dude is never going to suit up!!!!!

Why would you say that?

[UDTradition]

CE80 - I was just about to go to bed and I checked this thread...Thanks...I had a great laugh...

[BRob2Perryman3]

Lets just say in a Pip comment i was told by one of the two people on this board THAT ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON AND HAVE AN EAR TO THE LOCKER ROOM that he's done. Finished. Over. These guys have proven over and over and over and over and over they know what they are talking about

[UDTradition]

Not great news. Thanks

[Medford]

Perhaps I'm floating the wrong boat, but w/o saying a word on the situation (at least in this forum) for many weeks now, it is revealing the comments that CSIbooster has "thanked" in this thread.

Good luck to the young man, I hope he finds his way thru life, if that happens to be in a Flyer uniform at some point, great, if it happens to be as part of the regular student body, great as well, I just hope he doesn't look back 10, 20 years down the line and continually wonder "what if".

[NJFlyr71]

Some on this board get taken to the woodshed from time to time due to their calling out some 'events'. Some are more vocal about 'rumors' than others, but I am always amazed by the approach some take that we should never ever, under any circumstances discuss anything slightly, remotely bad about the program. I do not mean to suggest that all hell be brought down upon players, team, staff, but sometimes it is interesting to see that posters believe that if we ignore these 'situations' then the issues aren't going to happen, aren't true and really every thing will work out as long as we not say anything unless of course we have absolute information and only then after it has been released by the SID officials.

It is too bad that DR has this happening to him. I believe he has had a tuff road to travel ... most of it likely due to poor medical attention in JC and then struggling in academic's here and then coupled with his medical issues.

HOWEVER, sometimes reading the tea leaves you can develop a 'sense' of what may be happening ... I thought when he was 'suited up and shooting during warm ups prior to some games' that signaled one thing, then after the end of the semester the sudden reversal in the situation indicated that something else was going on. That it coincided with a new semester or at least the transition between semesters was pretty suspect and increased the likelihood that it wasn't related to injury or medical condition.

I am just saying when some situations or events are observed we all need to take into account the possibility that the person making the first observation is on to something. However, if you feel better keeping your self in a warm comfy place rather than confront the possibility, it's a free world here too.

So we are (and its' not as if we haven't been operating this way since December) one step away from some of the larger pieces of this season falling into disaster due to significant injury to one of the SEVEN.

The positive thought of having a significant or even a helper player for the remainder of this season is now gone ...

[Flyer'95]

If what i've read is true in terms of detwon not making the grade and skipping classes, that is extremely disappointing. Here he is on a team that desperately needs his help and he can't make the commitment to do the right thing, get his schoolwork in order and help them out and show up. For all the he// he's been through regarding his injuries, it's hard to believe he would let the chance to play D1 ball slip through his fingers by doing this. Really blows.

But if his grade issues are real and he can't play, i just wonder why he's even still on the team. If i were archie, i'd be beyond pi$$ed at him over this and wouldn't want him around. Unless we're just so desperate for practice bodies that we're keeping him around.

[KYFlyer]

Originally Posted by Flyer'95 If what i've read is true in terms of detwon not making the grade and skipping classes, that is extremely disappointing.

I guess we haven't learned much from the tragedy earlier this year with Matt D as far as making judgements about others.

Anyone going through multiple or long-term injuries and rehab would have issues staying focused and upbeat especially given all the additional expectations put on here. Until you have lived it personally or through a loved ones, you should reserve your judgements. If you had gone through it, you would definitely not be so quick to judge.

[UDBrian]

I don't believe that people on the board are against saying anything bad about the program if we have all of the facts. I think that some of us don't like to be judgemental when we don't have all of the facts.

KYFLYER makes a great point that Rogers has been fighting a long battle with injuries and it could also affect his attitude and concentration.

I wish Rogers the best because he certainly did want to be a part of this team. It appears that isn't going to happen which is too bad.

[UD Sam]

I can understand not judging him based on his medical problems, poor grades, etc., but I can't accept the skipping of classes. If that is true, he should lose his scholarship after this year.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by UD Sam I can understand not judging him based on his medical problems, poor grades, etc., but I can't accept the skipping of classes. If that is true, he should lose his scholarship after this year.

Yes, because NO college kid ever skips a class for any reason. They should all be kicked out of school for skipping class.

[Flyer2]

One of my friends was team manager at OSU for the football team and he told me of one of his jobs was picking up football players and driving them to class. He told me that some would walk in the front of the building and out the back.

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by m21eagle45 Yes, because NO college kid ever skips a class for any reason. They should all be kicked out of school for skipping class.

There is a huge difference between skipping a class and skipping classes. When it becomes a series of events then it becomes a major problem and calls for response from the university and/or athletic department.

[T-Bone 84]

Originally Posted by Flyer2 One of my friends was team manager at OSU for the football team and he told me of one of his jobs was picking up football players and driving them to class. He told me that some would walk in the front of the building and out the back.

Just out of sheer, morbid curiosity: who was tOSU HC at that time? Meyer, Fickell, Tressel, Cooper, Bruce, or Woody? Not that it matters - I'm just curious.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Avid Flyer]

The Rogers situation is one of the more perplexing cases we've seen. Talking with those whom I rely on are scratching there heads on this one themselves.

Some are of the opinion Rogers rushed himself back to practing too soon in an effort to help his fellow flyers and is now dealing with the setback. That would certainly be a likely scenario if it weren't for the fact the medical team would not allow him to return to practice status if they felt he wasn't ready.

Heath of the athelete is number one regardless of the teams need for bodies, take Bass, they opted for ending his career rather than take a chance on another injury.

Going from suited up ready to play or at least do warm ups and practice to wearing street clothes and not making trips kinda indicates there is more than we know or likely will know. If Rogers stays with the team like Bass is then it could just be medical reasons. If he don't then it could well be another or combination of issues.

If his dream is/was to play D1 basketball and that is now lost to him through medical reasons then it could well affect his attitude and sidetracked his ambitions causing a lack of interest.

Lets hope that what ever it is it turns out for the best for him.

[shocka43]

I HIGHLY doubt a player is in hot water because of a missed class or a couple missed classes...I would imagine if it was a problem, it has been discussed at length in private and an attempt was made to rectify the issue. Everyone skips a class, or two, or three...but if it is a trend, and academics are an issue, and the student doesn't pull their end of the deal...then it is a problem...

[KYFlyer]

Where was it posted that he skipped classes? The first I saw was Flyer 95 today.

[Chris R]

I think this topic has officially passed the archaic Alex Carmona thread for the largest Flyer discussion about a player that never played.

[Flyer2]

Originally Posted by Chris R I think this topic has officially passed the archaic Alex Carmona thread for the largest Flyer discussion about a player that never played.

But Wait! There could be more....... Really...Trust Me

[Avid Flyer]

Originally Posted by Chris R I think this topic has officially passed the archaic Alex Carmona thread for the largest Flyer discussion about a player that never played.

Ah yes but at least this player was on the team and even suited up so no comparison.

[UD90]

Originally Posted by Chris R I think this topic has officially passed the archaic Alex Carmona thread for the largest Flyer discussion about a player that never played.

And never will...
A sad story for a good kid...
but time to move on.

[rollo]

Originally Posted by Flyer2 Really...Trust Me

[The Gem]

I hope he does lands somewhere that works for him. I don't judge his situation at all. If he was a risk on the academic front, it didn't work out, time to move on. If he was making a good faith effort to make the grade, then there is no need to have it reported in the press. He had enough pressure on him as it was. Now the deadline has passed and the information is out there.

[ud2]

Is there anything new here?

The silence is deafening.

[Medford]

Nothing new, if there were it would be discussed. If you read b/w the lines I think its all pretty clear by now. I wouldn't count on Rogers at any point this season nor moving forward.

[jack72]

Is Rogers on campus and going to classes?

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Medford Nothing new, if there were it would be discussed. If you read b/w the lines I think its all pretty clear by now. I wouldn't count on Rogers at any point this season nor moving forward.

Yeah, thanks, I was just hoping for additional clarification.

As was posted before, DR apparently has an academic situation, and AM said that he doubts very highly that DR will play one minute this year.

The previous post about WHIO saying that he was academically eligible had me confused.

This older article covers the current DR situation.


http://flyernews.com/detwon-rogers-future-uncertain/

[Medford]

Don't assume the WHIO article is wrong, I'm lead to believe there is a good reason little is mentioned officially, and frankly its the best route forward at the moment. Just assume you're not going to see him in a flyer uniform and wish him well.

[Atlantic 10]

Originally Posted by jack72 Is Rogers on campus and going to classes?

Yes he is still on campus

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Medford Don't assume the WHIO article is wrong, I'm lead to believe there is a good reason little is mentioned officially, and frankly its the best route forward at the moment. Just assume you're not going to see him in a flyer uniform and wish him well.

Yes, I agree, WHIO is right I guess, he is academically eligible I guess, but it sounds like, per AM's quote in my above link, that maybe he is not doing what is expected of him academically, so that is why he isn't playing.

I guess there is apparently a difference between being eligible and doing what is expected of you. Being eligible isn't enough I guess.

[Medford]

Honestly, UD2, you only need look at post #225 in this thread, go from there and you'll have everything that you need to know. The specifics of the situation (which I've only heard 2nd/3rd hand at best from a couple of different places) shouldn't really matter to any of us, this is a young man trying to find his way thru life and basketball. I wish him all the best, if that should lead him onto the court at UD, great, if not, there are more important things in life than wins/losses.

[ud2]

Originally Posted by Medford Honestly, UD2, you only need look at post #225 in this thread, go from there and you'll have everything that you need to know. The specifics of the situation (which I've only heard 2nd/3rd hand at best from a couple of different places) shouldn't really matter to any of us, this is a young man trying to find his way thru life and basketball. I wish him all the best, if that should lead him onto the court at UD, great, if not, there are more important things in life than wins/losses.

AM's comments seem to point to a problem on DR's end.

I do feel that the specifics of the situation matter.

I do wish DR the best, but this is a basketball program that is trying to compete at a high level, and the fans pay good money to watch these games.

Wins and losses do matter. Both the welfare of the players and wins and losses matter.

I said earlier that I was fine with AM saying little publicly about this, but I am only fine with that up to a point.

Sooner or later, I do think it will be appropriate for AM or someone at UD to address this matter publicly.

I don't feel that there is anything wrong with wanting some sort of explanation. I feel like the fans deserve some sort of explanation.

[AC91]

I don't feel like I deserve some sort of explanation because it seems pretty self explanatory to the point that concerns me. There is clearly one or more issue with DR. If it is academic, then all you need to know is that UD is holding form to a standard and he is not playing, but that it is not bad enough for him to be officially suspended from the team. Other than that, I don't feel the need to know what the specific issue is. He also clearly has had knee issues but I feel like UD has been as clear as the situation has allowed. In the end, these are likely personal problems of a 20 or so year old kid. UD is handling it in a manner that seems to hold to a high standard. I don't need to or deserve to see the medical chart or transcript. Time to move on. if he is able to get things in order for next year, awesome. if not, i truly wish him well. peace.

[Gazoo]

I think too many people here are assuming it is a simple answer such as "he missed too many study sessions" or "he lacks confidence in his knee."

This is real life, it could be much worse, and privacy might be absolutely vital here. He could have a serious chemical imbalance, maybe he attempted suicide. He could have a serious communicable disease that was just discovered. I have zero (0) inside knowledge to this, those are simply 2 examples.

As long as he hasn't committed some serious sin against the program like Dee and Dumb, I don't think we have to know. The fact that we are not being told what's going on tells me there is some need for compassion not demands for information.

[ud2]

To clarify, I am satisfied with what AM already said: DR has an academic situation, highly doubtful that he plays one minute this year, he needs to get his academics in order in terms of what is expected of him, and his status is day to day right now.

That is a good enough explanation for me, I shouldn't have said that I need a more specific explanation, I said that more in reply to Medford's post.

[flybye]

DR was a miss, move on. Staff knows they have to have a better offseason keeping players and doing there homework on the ones coming in. They were surprised Big Steve was not going to make it and they are very disappointed in the JC kid. What we are doing so far is terrific but we could have been a Top 15 team or better had we not lost 6 players. The future is very bright, just need to limit the off court issues.