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  #1  
Old 02-28-2018, 09:20 PM
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Coach Grant's quote on Postgame

Credit Matt Schwade for getting this:

“As a coach, you have to evaluate where you are. Obviously, for us, it’s about trying to get the program where it needs to be. We just have to remain patient and understand this is a process in terms of making sure that everyone that we put on that floor has a pride level and a gratitude for the opportunity to represent the University of Dayton and understands the way that it should be done. Unfortunately, we didn’t live up to that today as a team, but as we move forward, that is my goal. To make sure that the guys we bring in, the guys we have on the court, the guys that compete for us understand the opportunity and value that.”

This is about to get really interesting in a couple weeks when the season is over. Going to be fascinating.
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  #2  
Old 02-28-2018, 09:29 PM
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What is the over/under for the number of players ASKED to leave?

I'm not figuring the guys that may WANT to leave.

Anyone?
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  #3  
Old 02-28-2018, 09:30 PM
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I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one surprise departure
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one surprise departure
Just one!?!
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:35 PM
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These guys stay: (not including Obi or Mikesell)

Trey
Josh
Crutch
J Davis
Kostas
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  #6  
Old 02-28-2018, 09:37 PM
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Safe to say that next year will be another year where half the roster's never played for our Flyers before?
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
These guys stay: (not including Obi or Mikesell)

Trey
Josh
Crutch
J Davis
Kostas
I would add MS.
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  #8  
Old 02-28-2018, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
Safe to say that next year will be another year where half the roster's never played for our Flyers before?
True but expect more talent out of those guys... so it should be better
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
These guys stay: (not including Obi or Mikesell)

Trey
Josh
Crutch
J Davis
Kostas
we hope
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  #10  
Old 02-28-2018, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
Credit Matt Schwade for getting this:

“As a coach, you have to evaluate where you are. Obviously, for us, it’s about trying to get the program where it needs to be. We just have to remain patient and understand this is a process in terms of making sure that everyone that we put on that floor has a pride level and a gratitude for the opportunity to represent the University of Dayton and understands the way that it should be done. Unfortunately, we didn’t live up to that today as a team, but as we move forward, that is my goal. To make sure that the guys we bring in, the guys we have on the court, the guys that compete for us understand the opportunity and value that.”

This is about to get really interesting in a couple weeks when the season is over. Going to be fascinating.
I said all along that the talent on this team was very low. But I'm shocked by the lack of effort.This off season will bring us back to where we should be or god forbid, usher into a new JOB era. I believe in AG, for now, to get things straight. After this season tho, I'm alot more worried than I was at the beginning. We didn't progress, we declined. Whatever, as always, Go Flyers!
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  #11  
Old 02-28-2018, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
What is the over/under for the number of players ASKED to leave?

I'm not figuring the guys that may WANT to leave.

Anyone?
asked/ushered

3
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  #12  
Old 02-28-2018, 10:03 PM
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tack another year onto the rebuild
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  #13  
Old 02-28-2018, 10:14 PM
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That quote is just depressing.
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  #14  
Old 02-28-2018, 10:40 PM
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Just to add another depressing thought. In the past we brought in recruits who interacted with the team and heard what a great place UD is, and you want to be part of this team and winning culture. Now we will bring in a recruit, and they will be told what?
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Just to add another depressing thought. In the past we brought in recruits who interacted with the team and heard what a great place UD is, and you want to be part of this team and winning culture. Now we will bring in a recruit, and they will be told what?
I’m sure the number of “tour guides” will be quite limited. Perhaps only 3 or 4 would be designated (and I’m including Mikesell as one of those).
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:49 PM
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If we're going to lose, can we at least lose with a team of Trey Landers, who hustle no matter what! Most of the things that ail this team, defense, rebounding, hustle, are desire, not skill. We could not have skilled offensive players, and still be in many games if we just did those three things above right.
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  #17  
Old 02-28-2018, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
Just to add another depressing thought. In the past we brought in recruits who interacted with the team and heard what a great place UD is, and you want to be part of this team and winning culture. Now we will bring in a recruit, and they will be told what?
If they are with Trey, we know exactly what they will be told.
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Old 02-28-2018, 11:02 PM
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Back in the day, no problem. Now with texting, I worry.

Can we get Pitino to help? He is not busy.
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Old 02-28-2018, 11:14 PM
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“We’ve talked about it all year,” he said. “But when you deal with young people, the message maybe doesn’t get through. I thought tonight we didn’t compete at the level my expectation for our program is to compete, so we have to address that.”

https://www.mydaytondailynews.com/sp...Qlgg6xUpZ40aL/
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  #20  
Old 03-01-2018, 12:26 AM
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Trey Landers@tlanders_03
6m6 minutes ago
More
Trials and Tribulations only make you stronger ... ��
https://twitter.com/tlanders_03/stat...79759950041088
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  #21  
Old 03-01-2018, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Just one!?!
from a guy people wouldn't suspect
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
That quote is just depressing.
As a fan, that quote is royally refreshing!

If I'm competitive recruit/player, that's exactly what I want to hear. If I have a little bit more entitlement in me than competitiveness, it's what I don't want to hear. So, depending on your DNA, that quote can be either refreshing and reassuring, or a wake up call.

Go Flyers!
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I shaved my balls for this?
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Old 03-01-2018, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
As a fan, that quote is royally refreshing!

If I'm competitive recruit/player, that's exactly what I want to hear. If I have a little bit more entitlement in me than competitiveness, it's what I don't want to hear. So, depending on your DNA, that quote can be either refreshing and reassuring, or a wake up call.

Go Flyers!
If I'm invested, which I am (season ticket holder/alum), and having watched this death spiral, that's exactly what I want to hear.

AG would've stopped his post game interview with Larry right after Larry said this was a game that started bad and stayed bad, but he and Larry both knew their obligations. I for one was glad I listened...and glad AG said it.

Last edited by Radar; 03-01-2018 at 08:02 AM..
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  #24  
Old 03-01-2018, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
True but expect more talent out of those guys... so it should be better
Or, at least, less “attitude” (as in the case of our tallest, least-active new guy from this season).
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Old 03-01-2018, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Just one!?!
He said “at least”.
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:02 AM
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I don’t like losing. What I really don’t like though is the lack of heart/effort. If we have a solid game plan and people are putting in effort, and a team is simply better than us, i.e. Rhode Island, that’s one thing. Last night we went into that gym and didn’t execute or do anything. This one was embarrassing. I hope this team at least gives Davis a good senior day. We will find out the true character of this team then. If we lose Saturday, just consider DC a formality the end of the season, and let’s clean house/move onto next year.
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:09 AM
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I project that Xeyrius, Pierce & Crosby are all gone. There will be at least 1 more. I would say we lose 4 scholarship guys. If Kostas wouldn't have sat out last year, I'd be worried he would leave, but can't see him sitting on the sidelines another year.

Grant has lost this team. It's actually sad because I think some of it has been self-inflicted. Never felt good about the hire...so I'm not surprised as to the state of the union (and I use that term very loosely).
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
As a fan, that quote is royally refreshing!

If I'm competitive recruit/player, that's exactly what I want to hear. If I have a little bit more entitlement in me than competitiveness, it's what I don't want to hear. So, depending on your DNA, that quote can be either refreshing and reassuring, or a wake up call.

Go Flyers!
Hearing that most of the players have quit on the head coach is anything but refreshing to me. Grant wasn't hired to turn around the Browns. There wasn't an established losing culture that he needs to deal with. This program wasn't in disarray, it was coming off one of it's best four year stretches in history.
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:19 AM
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Sorry I turned-off the broadcast after the final horn. I’m an accountant in manufacturing, and had to refocus back to my year-end schedules & reports.

Sounds like Coach sent a message to those who are giving less than a determined effort. Who those players are, I don’t know, and I’ll just have to wait and see.

But I agree with those who are saying it’s a welcome statement. I’m a UD grad twice-over, my wife came here from out-of-state and is a UD grad, my sister is a UD grad, my dad was a UD grad (who came through on the GI Bill following WWII), my mom taught at UD for 45 years, my godmother worked in UD administration for 42 years, and I haven’t even begun to discuss aunts, uncles, cousins, and in-laws. We have a lifetime of personal investment in this institution, and the men’s basketball team is possibly the most widely-know set of representatives of this institution. If a player gives less than full effort in support of his team, then he’s doing a disservice to that team, the institution in general, and (by extension) my family. I don’t take that kind of disservice lightly.

Thank you, Coach Grant, for setting that standard. Now, let’s see who is willing to meet it.
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:26 AM
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I said it before, I'll say it again: Losing teaches you how to lose.

Anybody (you know who you are) want to come on here and tell me how much "learning" we're doing in all these losses this year?

Nope.
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Buster Goode View Post
I project that Xeyrius, Pierce & Crosby are all gone. There will be at least 1 more. I would say we lose 4 scholarship guys. If Kostas wouldn't have sat out last year, I'd be worried he would leave, but can't see him sitting on the sidelines another year.

Grant has lost this team. It's actually sad because I think some of it has been self-inflicted. Never felt good about the hire...so I'm not surprised as to the state of the union (and I use that term very loosely).
Hard to lose something when you really didn't have it in the first place. XW, Pierce, Crosby, etc. were never on board. I'm not convinced that it's going to work with AG, but I will give him some credit for his vision of what a UD team should be. Is AG supposed to let the troublemakers slide with all the stuff (we hear the gossip) that these players are trying to get away with? Brian Gregory let some things slide (Warren, Staten, etc.) and in the end he had to go. Archie had a lot of bad stuff happen off the court, but he won so we tend to forget that.
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Hearing that most of the players have quit on the head coach is anything but refreshing to me. Grant wasn't hired to turn around the Browns. There wasn't an established losing culture that he needs to deal with. This program wasn't in disarray, it was coming off one of it's best four year stretches in history.
I agree with your point of our Flyers not being the Browns, and I agree that there has not an established losing culture here for over 20 years. And though it wasn’t in total disarray a year ago, nearly all of the people who helped make it one of the best 4-year stretches in program history were gone from the program 11 months ago. Leaving what?

-5 incoming freshmen, 2 of whom chose to leave physically and 1 of whom chose to leave mentally;
-2 new recruits, signed at the last minute, 1 of whom was declared ineligible;
-1 redshirt freshman from the previous year, who would be injured during the summer and then lose his father on the eve of the season.

And 7 returning players:
-1 of whom barely saw action last year;
-1 of whom had dual-hip surgery after last season;
-1 of whom may (he said “may”) need back surgery after this season;
-1 of whom had ankle surgery at the start of the previous season; and
-1 of whom decided to party with the ladies off-campus, got arrested, and wound-up leaving the school and never playing another minute.

That leaves 2 backup guards as our healthy, returning “core”. Some “culture of success”.

Not trying to find delight in our misfortune. Not trying to diminish our program in any way. Just trying to state the facts, painful though they may be to see.
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:55 AM
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T-bone, I hear ya.... but right now I am having a hard time convincing myself that things will be better next year. Other then blind optimism, what is there.....
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Old 03-01-2018, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Hearing that most of the players have quit on the head coach is anything but refreshing to me. Grant wasn't hired to turn around the Browns. There wasn't an established losing culture that he needs to deal with. This program wasn't in disarray, it was coming off one of it's best four year stretches in history.
I don't know if most have quit. I would say the starting 5 haven't. plus a couple off the bench. I saw lots of frustration but there were guys working (Personally loved seeing Crutcher go for the stel in the last minute the series after LaSalle jacking up a three-pointer.) and you even have a guy like Crosby who simply isn't good enough, but has anyone seen with him that he quit? or is it he just remains the same player he always has been? I always thought We were a challenged team regardless of coach this year - probably why i was so uset with the timing Archie chose...he left us with a bare cupboard and i am fairly certain he knew that. and then this is exacerbated by losing a lot of depth: Sam wouldn't have been a world beater but sure would have been helpful this season. Toppin couldt play, Pierce apparently was ready 9or willing) to play well and XW, for all intents and purposes, didn't play this year. personally thought we would end up within a game of .500. that is a lot to lose and we did not have the talent level or experience to pull off what the last class didtheir sophmore year. I believe at this point, you can't effectively judge what Grant will do at UD because it is a very incomplet piece of work. I'm not making excuses for them - clearly we are a sub .500 team, which is below even my limited expectations, but, though he didn't inherit a losing culture, with the roster that he inherited andbrought in, DD and, to a limited degree, JC were the only holdovers from a winning culture. we still do have one and AG clearly sees some issues with the current team that he appears to be addressing - and though it has cost us some games, i don't for a second believe it cost us anthing significant in the short run while it may have helped him immensely in the long run. we will see... and no one knows better than AG that it won't be cmfortable if he doesn't have a good offseason....

ok rambling over....
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Old 03-01-2018, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by TerryK_67 View Post
T-bone, I hear ya.... but right now I am having a hard time convincing myself that things will be better next year. Other then blind optimism, what is there.....
Addition by subtraction. I do believe we will be far more skilled next year as well.
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Old 03-01-2018, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
I agree with your point of our Flyers not being the Browns, and I agree that there has not an established losing culture here for over 20 years. And though it wasn’t in total disarray a year ago, nearly all of the people who helped make it one of the best 4-year stretches in program history were gone from the program 11 months ago. Leaving what?

-5 incoming freshmen, 2 of whom chose to leave physically and 1 of whom chose to leave mentally;
-2 new recruits, signed at the last minute, 1 of whom was declared ineligible;
-1 redshirt freshman from the previous year, who would be injured during the summer and then lose his father on the eve of the season.

And 7 returning players:
-1 of whom barely saw action last year;
-1 of whom had dual-hip surgery after last season;
-1 of whom may (he said “may”) need back surgery after this season;
-1 of whom had ankle surgery at the start of the previous season; and
-1 of whom decided to party with the ladies off-campus, got arrested, and wound-up leaving the school and never playing another minute.

That leaves 2 backup guards as our healthy, returning “core”. Some “culture of success”.

Not trying to find delight in our misfortune. Not trying to diminish our program in any way. Just trying to state the facts, painful though they may be to see.
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You forgot to mention on top of all of that you have an entire new coaching staff trying to create a chemistry and implement an entirely new system.....Facts well-stated and simply can't be ignored...
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Old 03-01-2018, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by steve View Post
You forgot to mention on top of all of that you have an entire new coaching staff trying to create a chemistry and implement an entirely new system.....Facts well-stated and simply can't be ignored...
VCU is suffering from the same ills. Let Bonnie and Rhody have their year in the sun. Order will be restored to the A10...soon.

AG's #1 concern right now isn't talent or execution. It's EFFORT.

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Old 03-01-2018, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Hearing that most of the players have quit on the head coach is anything but refreshing to me. Grant wasn't hired to turn around the Browns. There wasn't an established losing culture that he needs to deal with. This program wasn't in disarray, it was coming off one of it's best four year stretches in history.
BCross- don’t you ever get tired of spewing negativity in spite of facts? IF AG had lost one or 2 players from last year- you’d have a valid point about AG taking over a program after “one of it’s best four year stretches in history” and taking it in the wrong direction. It’s obvious to everyone that he had major issues with recruit defections, players checking out, graduation of 70+ % of scoring, injuries, dunkedness, etc, etc...

If everything went perfectly this year we’d be struggling to make the dance. Not happy with the record as nobody should be. But last year to this year is practically a complete turnover in new starters. I am very encouraged by the direction of this coach. So stop with “4 best years of Flyer history” blather- it’s irrelevant to this year.
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Old 03-01-2018, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
BCross- don’t you ever get tired of spewing negativity in spite of facts? IF AG had lost one or 2 players from last year- you’d have a valid point about AG taking over a program after “one of it’s best four year stretches in history” and taking it in the wrong direction. It’s obvious to everyone that he had major issues with recruit defections, players checking out, graduation of 70+ % of scoring, injuries, dunkedness, etc, etc...

If everything went perfectly this year we’d be struggling to make the dance. Not happy with the record as nobody should be. But last year to this year is practically a complete turnover in new starters. I am very encouraged by the direction of this coach. So stop with “4 best years of Flyer history” blather- it’s irrelevant to this year.
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
BCross- don’t you ever get tired of spewing negativity in spite of facts? IF AG had lost one or 2 players from last year- you’d have a valid point about AG taking over a program after “one of it’s best four year stretches in history” and taking it in the wrong direction. It’s obvious to everyone that he had major issues with recruit defections, players checking out, graduation of 70+ % of scoring, injuries, dunkedness, etc, etc...

If everything went perfectly this year we’d be struggling to make the dance. Not happy with the record as nobody should be. But last year to this year is practically a complete turnover in new starters. I am very encouraged by the direction of this coach. So stop with “4 best years of Flyer history” blather- it’s irrelevant to this year.
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Do you ever get tired of trying to spin everything? Why does my opinion matter so much to you? It's concerning.
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:23 AM
N2663R N2663R is offline
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
Credit Matt Schwade for getting this:

“ . . . . We just have to remain patient and understand this is a process in terms of making sure that everyone that we put on that floor has a pride level and a gratitude for the opportunity to represent the University of Dayton and understands the way that it should be done. Unfortunately, we didn’t live up to that today as a team, but as we move forward, that is my goal. To make sure that the guys we bring in, the guys we have on the court, the guys that compete for us understand the opportunity and value that.”
This, to me is something I would expect an alumni coach to say because he has a different perspective than a player. UD means a lot more to AG than it does to any player. Players are looking for an opportunity to play and win and possibly move on to the next level wherever they play. Very few come to UD because it's UD. So AG's narrative might not get through to players, and if its a constant talking point, it might wear a guy down - especially if you are not winning as a team.

Originally Posted by T-Bone 84 View Post
I’m a UD grad twice-over, my wife came here from out-of-state and is a UD grad, my sister is a UD grad, my dad was a UD grad (who came through on the GI Bill following WWII), my mom taught at UD for 45 years, my godmother worked in UD administration for 42 years, and I haven’t even begun to discuss aunts, uncles, cousins, and in-laws. We have a lifetime of personal investment in this institution, and the men’s basketball team is possibly the most widely-know set of representatives of this institution. If a player gives less than full effort in support of his team, then he’s doing a disservice to that team, the institution in general, and (by extension) my family. I don’t take that kind of disservice lightly. Thank you, Coach Grant, for setting that standard. Now, let’s see who is willing to meet it.
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Again, I don't think the players necessarily view their opportunity from a UD perspective. They want to play and win - wherever. that's why you see guys transfer. If you keep pounding the "play hard because you are playing for UD" narrative it might get lost on the players.
I read an article about men who fought in WWII. When asked why they fought so hard and never gave up, it was not to defend the USA, it was personal survival and to protect the man next to him in the foxhole.
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:49 AM
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2018/19 Landers, Crutcher, Cohill, J Davis, Cunningham, Kostas, Svboda, Topin, Jhery, Mikesell, + ?

>

2017/18 Landers, Crutcher, Williams, D Davis, J Davis, Cunningham, Kostas, Svboda

I think that is a pretty fair statement that 18/19 roster > 17/18 roster. I would expect to 20 wins next year and dancing again in 2019/20. That is what I would hold Grant accountable. How many on the board would consider 20 wins next year and NIT and 25 in 19/20 season and NCAA a success for AG? I would.

Note: forgive spelling of names (did fast) and such and omissions, just take the basic point that it is fair to expect us to be considerably better next year based on the additions, deletions, and experience gained this year.
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Again, I don't think the players necessarily view their opportunity from a UD perspective. They want to play and win - wherever. that's why you see guys transfer. If you keep pounding the "play hard because you are playing for UD" narrative it might get lost on the players.
I read an article about men who fought in WWII. When asked why they fought so hard and never gave up, it was not to defend the USA, it was personal survival and to protect the man next to him in the foxhole.
So start fighting for your own basketball life and the guy next you and play hard regardless of what you think of the coach and his message! Have some personal pride.
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
If you keep pounding the "play hard because you are playing for UD" narrative it might get lost on the players.
Every NCAA coach who wants to keep his job is pounding the old mantra about playing for the name on the front of the jersey, not the one on the back. If that get's lost on a player, they need to leave.

Remember Staten? Well, from what I've been told we have at least 1 player with the exact same attitude...exact.

And he's being treated exactly as I would expect BG, Archie and/or Grant to treat him.
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  #45  
Old 03-01-2018, 12:03 PM
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Head coaching experience

When you hire an assistant you never know what you're getting regardless of credentials. We learned that with our last two hires. One didn't work out as planned in spite of sterling credentials....the other did.

We now have two guys on the bench with extensive HC experience, AD and AS. They didn't win national championships....but for sure, both know what it takes to be a successful head coach.

What remains a mystery to me is why when Dayton changes head coaches the program disintegrates requiring a painful rebuild. If Miller had not gone to IU would it have been like this....more or less? Clearly AM's recruiting left a bit to be desired at a time of success when it should have been easiest...another thing I don't understand. And AG lost a player(s) who would have been here. But that doesn't seem to explain plummeting from a four-year NCAA caliber program to what we are now experiencing.

Likely this is harder than any of us understand. I'm watching the same thing at UConn....among the top five most successful programs over the last 25 years, or so. With that reputation UConn's recruiting classes have been ranked among the best since Calhoun left about five years ago. His hand-picked successor won a national championship in his second year...with Calhoun's players. But the recruits coming in since have been highly rated...very highly rated....but the "team" is not good and often terrible. With these great recruits UConn broke a 50 year old record this year re number of losses by more than 25 points. Why? No one knows...even the local sports writers aren't speculating as to what's wrong. But the team is poor and the coach's seat is getting hot.

As I said...maybe this is a lot harder to pull off than it appears to be. Next year will test Anthony Grant....it had better result in dramatic improvement.

Go Flyers!
_________
I had a good friend at work...an ND guy. Once he told me that he knew he was maturing (he was ~ 45 at the time) because he can get over an ND gridiron loss in just a few days...when he was younger it took him a week. Well, I must be pretty immature...I'm a lot older than 45 and when the Flyers lose it still hurts for a long time. Yet again: Go Flyers!
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
This, to me is something I would expect an alumni coach to say because he has a different perspective than a player. UD means a lot more to AG than it does to any player. Players are looking for an opportunity to play and win and possibly move on to the next level wherever they play. Very few come to UD because it's UD. So AG's narrative might not get through to players, and if its a constant talking point, it might wear a guy down - especially if you are not winning as a team.



Again, I don't think the players necessarily view their opportunity from a UD perspective. They want to play and win - wherever. that's why you see guys transfer. If you keep pounding the "play hard because you are playing for UD" narrative it might get lost on the players.
I read an article about men who fought in WWII. When asked why they fought so hard and never gave up, it was not to defend the USA, it was personal survival and to protect the man next to him in the foxhole.
Disagree.

We graduated four players last year who very much understood what it meant to play for UD, for Dayton. They spoke about it, lived it, and played like it. If AM instilled this in them God bless 'em. But coming from a current coach/former player/alum, AG's voice should resonate with them even more.
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  #47  
Old 03-01-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Dogdaddy View Post

2018/19 Landers, Crutcher, Cohill, J Davis, Cunningham, Kostas, Svboda, Topin, Jhery, Mikesell, + ?
I have no issues with how next year's roster is shaping up...

Cohill, Topin, Mikesell are definitely an upgrade from Williams, Crosby, Pierce.
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  #48  
Old 03-01-2018, 12:43 PM
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People were way too high on Brian Gregory in his first year 2004, a 2OT loss to Depaul in the NCAA Tourney. Only made the NCAA 1x in the next 12 years.

People are way too low on Anthony Grant in his first year, 2018.

I trust Neil Sullivan. He did not select AG because he was the safe choice; he did not select hi because he was a Dayton grad (although if AG has success, it will help retain him); he did not select AG to raise funds for the Arena (it is more done than other posters have indicated). He selected him because he was the best available coach to make the Dayton program a consistent Final 4 capable program -- that is Spina's and Sullivan's goal.

No idea whether AG will work out or not, but I am cautiously optimistic. Think of the last 5 hires at UD on a red, yellow, green scale.
Jim OBrien = Red
Oliver Purnell = Green
Brian Gregory = Yellow/Red (1/7 NCAAs after 1st year is Red in my mind)
Archie Miller = Green (will be remembered in the same breath as Don Donoher)
Anthony Grant = ?

Everyone needs to chill trust the process. Criticism ok, but we have some irrational points on the board now.
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  #49  
Old 03-01-2018, 12:57 PM
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I have a feeling I am going to be vista lot of museums next week.
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  #50  
Old 03-01-2018, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CE80 View Post
I have a feeling I am going to be vista lot of museums next week.
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You can't go wrong with that in DC. I could go every year, to the exact same places, seeing the exact same items, and it would never get old, especially the National Archives, Museum of Natural History, the Aerospace Museum, and the National Gallery of Art.
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  #51  
Old 03-01-2018, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
Every NCAA coach who wants to keep his job is pounding the old mantra about playing for the name on the front of the jersey, not the one on the back. If that get's lost on a player, they need to leave.

Remember Staten? Well, from what I've been told we have at least 1 player with the exact same attitude...exact.

And he's being treated exactly as I would expect BG, Archie and/or Grant to treat him.
A few years ago I went to the Country Concert with my wife and the couple who say next to us commented about our Dayton lawn chairs. Through our conversation the young lady had worked with the team during the Gregory years. She said each assistant coach was assigned certain players for one on one coaching. One player demanded to be coached only by Gregory, Staten.

I hope every coach Dayton ever had will run from, or adjusts the attitude of any player like that again.
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Old 03-01-2018, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I said it before, I'll say it again: Losing teaches you how to lose.

Anybody (you know who you are) want to come on here and tell me how much "learning" we're doing in all these losses this year?

Nope.
It's all ones perspective, a looser would see it that way and agree with you, and most UDPriders are not losers.
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Old 03-01-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
Disagree.

We graduated four players last year who very much understood what it meant to play for UD, for Dayton. They spoke about it, lived it, and played like it. If AM instilled this in them God bless 'em. But coming from a current coach/former player/alum, AG's voice should resonate with them even more.
I agree with your assessment, but, you are talking about 4 guys who spent 4 years together and enjoyed pretty much 4 years of success under AM. They developed that sense of playing for UD and the bond with AM. I never got the impression that AM pushed the "you are playing for tUofD" narrative, rather play your best for your personal pride and for the rest of your team. Today, you have one senior, transfer students, 2 foreign players, freshmen, and 2-3 players who have "issues." I don't think this team has an identity (yet) and if AG is pushing the "We are UD and you should be grateful" narrative as a rallying point and something to build on, it's not working. (If AG is bringing this up after the next to the last game of the season, something is not working) I think it's part of the mix but if it's your go to theme over and over again, give it a rest and find another rallying point.
I think next year will be different and with some success you will see more "We are UD" pride since these guys will have fought it out in the trenches together as a team. Winning cures all. If we have another year like this year, all bets are off.
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Old 03-01-2018, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Do you ever get tired of trying to spin everything? Why does my opinion matter so much to you? It's concerning.
Me spinning? Do you read your own messages? They are always the same theme: “AG can’t coach, AG a bad hire, This was a great team last 4 years- best ever etc...
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:05 PM
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everything is fine
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Me spinning? Do you read your own messages? They are always the same theme: “AG can’t coach, AG a bad hire, This was a great team last 4 years- best ever etc...
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Yes, you.

Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
These last 3 games cannot be over soon enough. Dayton players have mailed it in
Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
I am very encouraged by the direction of this coach.
It becomes a little comical when you put your posts together.

Call it what you want, but if the players have "mailed it in" I think there are valid concerns about the direction of the program. I won't sugarcoat it or fake optimism when that isn't how I feel.
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by UACFlyer View Post
When you hire an assistant you never know what you're getting regardless of credentials. We learned that with our last two hires. One didn't work out as planned in spite of sterling credentials....the other did.

We now have two guys on the bench with extensive HC experience, AD and AS. They didn't win national championships....but for sure, both know what it takes to be a successful head coach.

What remains a mystery to me is why when Dayton changes head coaches the program disintegrates requiring a painful rebuild. If Miller had not gone to IU would it have been like this....more or less? Clearly AM's recruiting left a bit to be desired at a time of success when it should have been easiest...another thing I don't understand. And AG lost a player(s) who would have been here. But that doesn't seem to explain plummeting from a four-year NCAA caliber program to what we are now experiencing.

Likely this is harder than any of us understand. I'm watching the same thing at UConn....among the top five most successful programs over the last 25 years, or so. With that reputation UConn's recruiting classes have been ranked among the best since Calhoun left about five years ago. His hand-picked successor won a national championship in his second year...with Calhoun's players. But the recruits coming in since have been highly rated...very highly rated....but the "team" is not good and often terrible. With these great recruits UConn broke a 50 year old record this year re number of losses by more than 25 points. Why? No one knows...even the local sports writers aren't speculating as to what's wrong. But the team is poor and the coach's seat is getting hot.

As I said...maybe this is a lot harder to pull off than it appears to be. Next year will test Anthony Grant....it had better result in dramatic improvement.

Go Flyers!
_________
I had a good friend at work...an ND guy. Once he told me that he knew he was maturing (he was ~ 45 at the time) because he can get over an ND gridiron loss in just a few days...when he was younger it took him a week. Well, I must be pretty immature...I'm a lot older than 45 and when the Flyers lose it still hurts for a long time. Yet again: Go Flyers!

Although we will never know, I think the team would have been been better if Archie had not left. Now, I don't think we would have been good. Playing in the same system may have helped.

There were just so many "ifs" involved with this team. And quite frankly, most of them did not come to fruition. I don't think this season is a harbinger for a return to the JOB years but cannot say that it is not based upon what we have seen. Certainly, it is time to clean house. The players don't fit, some culturally and some schematically. I am not a huge advocate of pulling a scholarship but I am a huge advocate of telling a kid that they do not and will fit and the best they can hope for is walk-on level mop up time. Kids will act in their own best interest. If a kid is a cancer, that's different. You're out... best of luck to you and yours.

We should start seeing signs next season. Based on who leaves, who replaces them and how they fit. The key is who AG brings in as replacements. We had a great run the last few years; it is imperative that we leverage it while we can.
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Yes, you.





It becomes a little comical when you put your posts together.

Call it what you want, but if the players have "mailed it in" I think there are valid concerns about the direction of the program. I won't sugarcoat it or fake optimism when that isn't how I feel.
Just because I want the last three games over with doesn’t mean I’m not encouraged by the direction of this team; he’s cleaning it all up that’s what I’m encouraged about
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:56 PM
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look at the arc of the season

Open A10 with a tough loss on the road to Duquesne. Start the new year with 3 victories in 4 games taking down St. Bonaventure, winning on the road at Richmond and playing in my opinion the best of game the year the home win over VCU.

That's a good start to the year. I'm seeing some real progress

Since then 4-8. It's not just the wins and losses but the way this team competed in those games that's truly disturbing.

Under a defensive minded coach the defensive hasn't improved.

How many players have improved over the course of the year besides Crutcher

A couple players not buying in a coaching transition is understandable. When AG comes out and says Trey is the only guy bought in the second to last regular game. That's on AG on that staff if you've got one scholarship player showing up for the final road game of the season.

Of course there's plenty of people here who will it's all on the players and AG is faultless. I disagree but let's considered the bigger picture regardless of blame. That's Crutcher and Jordan Davis too in there. If those guys are having problems that's a big problem going forward. Crutch and JD are the backbone of this program going forward with Landers

AG's kicking the tires out the recruiting trail still for guards from high school to the JUCO ranks.
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Old 03-01-2018, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
look at the arc of the season

Open A10 with a tough loss on the road to Duquesne. Start the new year with 3 victories in 4 games taking down St. Bonaventure, winning on the road at Richmond and playing in my opinion the best of game the year the home win over VCU.

That's a good start to the year. I'm seeing some real progress

Since then 4-8. It's not just the wins and losses but the way this team competed in those games that's truly disturbing.

Under a defensive minded coach the defensive hasn't improved.

How many players have improved over the course of the year besides Crutcher

A couple players not buying in a coaching transition is understandable. When AG comes out and says Trey is the only guy bought in the second to last regular game. That's on AG on that staff if you've got one scholarship player showing up for the final road game of the season.

Of course there's plenty of people here who will it's all on the players and AG is faultless. I disagree but let's considered the bigger picture regardless of blame. That's Crutcher and Jordan Davis too in there. If those guys are having problems that's a big problem going forward. Crutch and JD are the backbone of this program going forward with Landers

AG's kicking the tires out the recruiting trail still for guards from high school to the JUCO ranks.
I don't think the frosh have given up or haven't bought in but I'm sure if some of the upperclassmen haven't bought in that can put undue peer pressure on them. Let's hope they can rise above.
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Old 03-01-2018, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
Just because I want the last three games over with doesn’t mean I’m not encouraged by the direction of this team; he’s cleaning it all up that’s what I’m encouraged about
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Cleaning up a team after 4 straight years in the tournament. Didn't realize we were such a mess. We have good players, they are not meshing into the system. When out on the court, we have no offensive plan to speak of.
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Old 03-01-2018, 04:28 PM
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He will be judged after 3 years like every other UD coach of the modern era- it you dont like the direction - follow another team. I like the integrity he brings. I think he recruits at a different level to a different type of student athlete. Feel free to go follow another team. And I don’t think he’ll ever say to a recruit “you’re too good to come to Dayton”
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Old 03-01-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I don't think the frosh have given up or haven't bought in but I'm sure if some of the upperclassmen haven't bought in that can put undue peer pressure on them. Let's hope they can rise above.
Grant singled out only two players in his post-game interview.

“I’m proud of Trey (Landers),” Grant said. “I thought Trey brought it. It wasn’t one of our finest hours. It was easy to lay down. I thought Trey, especially in the second half, really battled and competed on both ends of the floor. I thought Jack Westerfield came in and played with energy. I thought he did a good job in terms of being where he needed to be from a defensive standpoint.”

The other seven Flyers to appear in the game weren’t mentioned, but for long stretches in the second half, as La Salle pushed its lead to as many as 25 points, starters Jalen Crutcher, Jordan Davis and Darrell Davis watched from the bench. Grant played the walk-on Westerfield and backup guard John Crosby major minutes in the second half.

“The theme was the same for 40 minutes,” Grant said. “I thought Trey competed. We just didn’t have enough guys that competed at the level we need guys to compete.”

https://www.mydaytondailynews.com/sp...Qlgg6xUpZ40aL/
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Old 03-01-2018, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
He will be judged after 3 years like every other UD coach of the modern era- it you dont like the direction - follow another team. I like the integrity he brings. I think he recruits at a different level to a different type of student athlete. Feel free to go follow another team. And I don’t think he’ll ever say to a recruit “you’re too good to come to Dayton”
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Most of the people posting on here graduated UD just like you. Get over yourself with this "follow another team" nonsense.
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Old 03-01-2018, 04:43 PM
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right now on March 1 in the year of our Lord 2018 we are tied with La Salle, Duquesne and George Washington near the bottom of the A10 standings
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Old 03-01-2018, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
...Again, I don't think the players necessarily view their opportunity from a UD perspective. They want to play and win - wherever. that's why you see guys transfer. If you keep pounding the "play hard because you are playing for UD" narrative it might get lost on the players.
I read an article about men who fought in WWII. When asked why they fought so hard and never gave up, it was not to defend the USA, it was personal survival and to protect the man next to him in the foxhole.
I'm not talking directly to the players. I'm saying, anyone who represents my alma mater either does so with a decent degree of dedication and effort, or shouldn't be surprised if I let my dissatisfaction be heard.

And regarding the guys who fought in WWII. I can't speak for all of them, but seeing as how my dad is no longer with us (he would have been 101 yesterday), I'll speak for him.

He was the oldest boy in a Depression-era family with 9 kids, and back then the oldest boy had to be "Dad #2". So, he had to bust his @ss, or the family would starve. He carried that same ethic into his 6-year term in the Army (1940-46), serving as a supply Sergeant. He busted his @ss, or the men on the front lines wouldn't have what they needed to defeat the Nazis. So, yeah, he did it to protect his brothers in arms. But he had thousands of brothers in arms.

Sorry to take this off-topic, but my dad was the antithesis of "every man for himself". This team has a few men like him, but they could definitely use a few more.
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:15 PM
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We're going to be thankful for this year in the long run. i was pretty despondent when Staten transferred, now it's a fond moment of my Flyer Fandom.
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bcross View Post
Yes, you.





It becomes a little comical when you put your posts together.

Call it what you want, but if the players have "mailed it in" I think there are valid concerns about the direction of the program. I won't sugarcoat it or fake optimism when that isn't how I feel.
That’s not the problem. The problem is you wont shut up about it. Same negative opinions on almost every thread despite the topic.
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I said it before, I'll say it again: Losing teaches you how to lose.

Anybody (you know who you are) want to come on here and tell me how much "learning" we're doing in all these losses this year?

Nope.
I'll take a run at it.
We learned who we don't want back to build a real Dayton team.
We learned how far the bar is set for us to reach the NCAA's.
We learned that some of our present players can't rise up to adversity.
We learned that you can't overcome the loss of outstanding recruits and players numbered 5, and pretend that won't have an impact.
We learned that injuries can and did impact a short roster.
We learned some as*h***s will whine even if we win the national championship.

I learned that a half dozen close losses would have been FOOLS GOLD if they were wins.
We have a long way to go. I was wrong with my 17 win projection last summer. But I watched every minute of action that I could to assess just what could we do about it and how long would it take. It hurt to watch this ending, but help is on the way.

Just what was your projection last summer Gazoo?
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Marysville Flyer View Post
That’s not the problem. The problem is you wont shut up about it. Same negative opinions on almost every thread despite the topic.
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Thanks for your input.
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Old 03-01-2018, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dogdaddy View Post
2018/19 Landers, Crutcher, Cohill, J Davis, Cunningham, Kostas, Svboda, Topin, Jhery, Mikesell, + ?

>

2017/18 Landers, Crutcher, Williams, D Davis, J Davis, Cunningham, Kostas, Svboda

I think that is a pretty fair statement that 18/19 roster > 17/18 roster. I would expect to 20 wins next year and dancing again in 2019/20. That is what I would hold Grant accountable. How many on the board would consider 20 wins next year and NIT and 25 in 19/20 season and NCAA a success for AG? I would.

Note: forgive spelling of names (did fast) and such and omissions, just take the basic point that it is fair to expect us to be considerably better next year based on the additions, deletions, and experience gained this year.
I have no doubt the talent next year will far exceed the talent of this year.

That said, many of the naysayers have a valid critique of this year's team. What all of us need to look for next year is not necessarily talent upgrade which should be evident, but attitude/intensity/effort/grit upgrade. If that isn't better, I'll join the naysayers and begin to question the leadership. For the record, I think it will be better.

I still think most of the anti AG posters actually enjoy puffing their chest out after a loss. The whole concept is so foreign to me but there are all kinds in this world.
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:30 PM
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I believe we will be better, and more so if they can all stay healthy. But the A10 will be better and the bar we are reaching for is not to be better than this years Flyers, but to be better than the top 4 in the A10.
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Old 03-01-2018, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
These guys stay: (not including Obi or Mikesell)

Trey
Josh
Crutch
J Davis
Kostas
Let's hope. This would be the best cased scenario. Although I would love a miracle turnaround from XW. The rest I would welcome the scholarships and chemistry to work with.
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Old 03-01-2018, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CT Flyer View Post
I don't think the frosh have given up or haven't bought in but I'm sure if some of the upperclassmen haven't bought in that can put undue peer pressure on them. Let's hope they can rise above.
It might just be because the frosh have hit the proverbial "wall". They've never had to play this many minutes, at this level of intensity, for this many games. And let's face it: if you put as much effort into as many games as these guys have, and have so little to show for it, it's understandable that they could be dejected by the results.

Is it an excuse for them to not continue to try? No. But it is an understandable reaction.
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Old 03-02-2018, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
These guys stay: (not including Obi or Mikesell)

Trey
Josh
Crutch
J Davis
Kostas
I will be happy going into 2018-19 as long as Josh doesn't graduate and move on to a top-5 program for his last year
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Old 03-02-2018, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
I said it before, I'll say it again: Losing teaches you how to lose.

Anybody (you know who you are) want to come on here and tell me how much "learning" we're doing in all these losses this year?

Nope.
Only if your a looser, quitter. Once you get knocked down the winners get up with blood in their eyes and the wieners cry and others blame the coach.

Suck it up girls.
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Old 03-02-2018, 06:53 AM
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I think you can tell a lot about people in how they respond to adversity.

Archie to me was cemented as a great coach after the 14-15 season and what he dealt with there. No doubt in my mind that if Brian Gregory was the coach of that team they would have faded down the stretch and ended up in the NIT. Instead the team ends up on the verge of a Sweet 16 appearance.

This is a gut check for Anthony Grant, his staff and every returning player.

Are players going to double down on their effort offseason conditioning and skill training. I know Trey Landers wants to get back to where they were. Are Jalen Crutcher, Jordan Davis, Kostas and the young guys going to accept this as the status quo of Dayton?

AG was quoted as saying teams were made during the seasons but individual players were made in the offseason. We'll see what kind of heart these guys have and if they want to work hard for AG

As disturbing as anything that's happened this season for me AG saying 1 scholarship player showed up in not so many words is the most. Don't kid yourself either that this is Jordan Pierce and X fault.

When you've got one guy on your team and a walk on showing up for the final road game of the season the coach has to take a long look in the mirror.
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Old 03-02-2018, 07:00 AM
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My curiosity lies with Kostas, assuming he stays. I realize he was injured for a while last summer, but prior to that he was in this program an entire year and came out the other side at 190 lbs and lacking serious strength. What he looks like next October will speak volumes about his dedication.

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Old 03-02-2018, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
My curiosity lies with Kostas, assuming he stays. I realize he was injured for a while this summer, but prior to that he was in this program an entire year and came out the other side at 190 lbs and lacking serious strength. What he looks like next October will speak volumes about his dedication.
I hope he stays on campus and works with the strength/conditioning coach versus trying to play with a Greek national team or leaving campus for the summer
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Old 03-02-2018, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
People were way too high on Brian Gregory in his first year 2004, a 2OT loss to Depaul in the NCAA Tourney. Only made the NCAA 1x in the next 12 years.

People are way too low on Anthony Grant in his first year, 2018.

I trust Neil Sullivan. He did not select AG because he was the safe choice; he did not select hi because he was a Dayton grad (although if AG has success, it will help retain him); he did not select AG to raise funds for the Arena (it is more done than other posters have indicated). He selected him because he was the best available coach to make the Dayton program a consistent Final 4 capable program -- that is Spina's and Sullivan's goal.

No idea whether AG will work out or not, but I am cautiously optimistic. Think of the last 5 hires at UD on a red, yellow, green scale.
Jim OBrien = Red
Oliver Purnell = Green
Brian Gregory = Yellow/Red (1/7 NCAAs after 1st year is Red in my mind)
Archie Miller = Green (will be remembered in the same breath as Don Donoher)
Anthony Grant = ?

Everyone needs to chill trust the process. Criticism ok, but we have some irrational points on the board now.
Nice post. This reminds me of 2014 when we had lost 4 straight in January and some on here were calling for AM to be fired. It’s amazing the knee jerk reaction by some.
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Old 03-02-2018, 07:23 AM
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If you're watching these games and walk away thinking we have the more talented players then you have at least 1 pair of red and blue glasses on, if not 2 or 3.

This team lacks talent AND experience.

We are right where we deserve to be talent/experience wise, at the bottom of the league.

Hard to evaluate AG's coaching ability with what he has to run out on the court.
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Old 03-02-2018, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by CJ2etc View Post
If you're watching these games and walk away thinking we have the more talented players then you have at least 1 pair of red and blue glasses on, if not 2 or 3.

This team lacks talent AND experience.

We are right where we deserve to be talent/experience wise, at the bottom of the league.

Hard to evaluate AG's coaching ability with what he has to run out on the court.
I think the freshmen class is going to be very good, josh has talent, same with Trey. But we are vastly undermaned and still inexperienced. I am not looking at next year as a magical turnaround to an Elite 8 but it will turnaround.
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Old 03-02-2018, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by TA111 View Post
Nice post. This reminds me of 2014 when we had lost 4 straight in January and some on here were calling for AM to be fired. It’s amazing the knee jerk reaction by some.
night and day

When you have the worst season potentially this century, find yourself tied with Duquesne and La Salle on March 1st and the final road game of the season the coach says one scholarship player shows up, it will elicit criticism and quite frankly it's perfectly reasonable.
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Old 03-02-2018, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by longtimefan67 View Post
I think the freshmen class is going to be very good, josh has talent, same with Trey. But we are vastly undermaned and still inexperienced. I am not looking at next year as a magical turnaround to an Elite 8 but it will turnaround.
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Agree but my point is anyone watching these games and thinking the reason we aren't winning is because of coaching isn't watching objectively. We have talented freshman playing against talented upperclassmen, players playing out of position and we are lacking talent and depth on the bench.
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Old 03-02-2018, 07:50 AM
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I'm still strongly supporting CAG. He's not making excuses, he understands he has some players on a different agenda, he knows this team is low on talent & exp, he & his staff are busting his arse recruiting, and he is planning for next year. I can't ask for any more from a coach. Yes, maybe we could've/should've eeked out 1-2 more wins this season if he were a better bench coach but he seems to learn from his experience.
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Old 03-02-2018, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by CJ2etc View Post
Agree but my point is anyone watching these games and thinking the reason we aren't winning is because of coaching isn't watching objectively. We have talented freshman playing against talented upperclassmen, players playing out of position and we are lacking talent and depth on the bench.
I agree completely- i think AG sacrificed a slightly better record that could have been attainable this year for experience that will serve for next year. Most of the highly critical comments come from those fans used to and expecting success we had the last 4 years without looking past the trees to see the forest.
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Old 03-02-2018, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by CJ2etc View Post
Agree but my point is anyone watching these games and thinking the reason we aren't winning is because of coaching isn't watching objectively. We have talented freshman playing against talented upperclassmen, players playing out of position and we are lacking talent and depth on the bench.
I’m glad you said “talented freshmen”, because by the time all 4 classes of players graduate, they may “show” the most of any of the classes on this year’s team. Our problem isn’t that we don’t have any talent. Our problem is that we don’t have experienced, healthy talent at every position.

That also leads to my curiosity about how well IU will fare over the next 3-4 seasons. If one of our biggest problems is that we don’t have enough experienced talent, then that largely falls on the more recent recruiting ability of the last staff. I’ll be interested to see what kind of players choose to suit-up for the Cream & Crimson over the next few years. It will be interesting to watch.

Back on topic. It’s sad that only 1 of our scholarship players put forth a winning effort in our last away game of the year. Whether the coach’s methods or the players’ attitudes are more to blame, well, in this situation, I’m not close enough to the program to make a fair assessment. I’m sure there’s blame to be placed on both sides. But the one who deserves the least blame is probably the one who was singled-out by Grant after the game: Trey Landers. Work hard to improve. Work hard to win the game. Use your head and your heart. Funny how that can be a recipe for success.
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Old 03-02-2018, 09:30 AM
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Painful season doesn't equal a painful rebuild as mentioned above.

Those that don't think the future is bright with some of the young talent are blinded by their frustrations over this season.

Painful rebuilds are multiple seasons of not even close to being .500 teams...as frustrating as this season is/was, it is far from what other schools would consider a "painful rebuild".
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  #89  
Old 03-02-2018, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
night and day

When you have the worst season potentially this century, find yourself tied with Duquesne and La Salle on March 1st and the final road game of the season the coach says one scholarship player shows up, it will elicit criticism and quite frankly it's perfectly reasonable.
So I'm just going to assume you weren't alive for 2006 then. 14-17. Brian Gregory's THIRD season. If AG is 14-17 in Season 3, I assume many of you will be having massive coronary events due to stress and/or apoplexia.

You know it's ok to look at the surrounding context for things.

Best post I have seen on here was a response to you saying that Rhody should still be good next year despite losing a ton of seniors... like we did this year.

My man, THirt said this:

Originally Posted by THirt
Just playing Devil’s advocate here, but what if Hurley leaves, Langevine has to miss the season due to surgery on both hips, their top two recruits decide to go elsewhere, one of their other recruits decides he just not really into playing so he takes off some road games and only plays in two games, one of the recruits they get to replace the second best recruit is academically ineligible, Mike Laysard gets in a bar fight, gets arrested, then tried to fight his cellmate and it ends up on social media and he is kicked out, and Nikola Akele has a back injury, takes a while to come back, and then has some struggles and can’t travel to Dayton for a February road game to work on academics?

They still a bubble team or nah?


I’m gonna go with nah, unless say, some preseason magazine said that they should be a bubble team before most of that stuff happened.
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  #90  
Old 03-02-2018, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Archie to me was cemented as a great coach after the 14-15 season and what he dealt with there.
You mean the "great" coach whose current team lost to the bottom seeded team in the Big10 tourney last night, giving up a 16 point lead?

I think some here give AM way too much credit as being some kind of coaching God. He is a good coach who had a lot of things go right during his run at UD. That class that graduated last season was the centerpiece of this program during that NCAA tourney run. Throw in a few quality players he inherited from the previous coach, a few transfers like Sanford and Sibert, and some lucky draws in the first few tourney runs, you had the perfect storm. He knew he had a rebuild if he decided to stay, so he thought it was in his best interests to move on.

Up to this point, I think he can be considered a good coach, but has a lot more to accomplish before being considered great. I wouldn't even consider his brother as being a great coach. With all the talent he's had at Arizona over the years, he has yet to make it to the Final Four, and now we come to find he may have been paying players, allegedly.

It may not have been quite the challenging season it has become if Archie had stayed because he would have been able keep Wright here and the few leftovers he had wouldn't have had to learn a new system, but it still would have been a rebuilding year.

And I disagree with those saying there isn't much talent on this team. I think there is some quality young talent there, but it is inexperienced and raw. Then you have the lone senior who is being asked to do way more than what he is really capable. Give AG time to get his players in his system and to get rid of any bad seeds, and I think we're going to be pleasantly surprised. Unfortunately we now live in a society where we need instant gratification and people are unable to see the forest for the trees. New coach, new system = growing pains. Indiana fans are currently going through the same thing.
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Old 03-02-2018, 10:55 AM
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I wasn't happy with Gregory's 3rd season either or most of his tenure here.

I'm not happy with the W/Ls and I don't most Flyer fans are either. The bigger picture to me is how this season has gone over the course of A10 play.

Back on December 12 I said
http://udpride.com/forums/showpost.p...&postcount=138

Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
Improvement is the name of the game from here on here on out. The young guys getting better and the team improving defensively.

I want to win every game but for me this season will be success if we can sit back and April and say folks really blossomed and grew over the course of the season. If we have a good nucleus of young guys for the future then I'll be happy
Those were my expectations for conference play. Great start to January winning 3 of 4 games against good opponents.

I'll lay out the facts for you since then:

-4-8 with several no show performances and halves of basketball. 6 of those defeats are by double digits. 4 of them by over 15 points
-a defense that hasn't statistically improved.
-a coach who says one scholarship player showed up the final road game of the season.

I don't think any reasonable person would say this team hasn't regressed early January. It's how they lost those games that bothers more than the fact they lost them

As far Rhode Island goes we'll have wait and see next year. I certainly disagree with the assessment of you and Thirt that they're gonna have a season like ours. I realize this is colored by the defend AG at all costs mentality around here. It is possible to survive graduation of contributors and be successful. URI wouldn't be the first school to do it.

I think Dowtin/Russell/Langevine are a good core and Hurley will be active on the grad transfer/juco market to get some instant impact help in
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Old 03-02-2018, 10:55 AM
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Look, AM is no god here but if you actually believe what you posted below is true you are nuts...The guy had more issues he had to confront than some coaches in a lifetime. Should I name all those? I hope to hell I don't have to list these all for you..
AM was responsible for ALL the success he had including the right transfers he brought in that he gave new life to and bought into an entirely new culture..
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who had a lot of things go right during his run at UD.
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Old 03-02-2018, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
I wasn't happy with Gregory's 3rd season either or most of his tenure here.

I'm not happy with the W/Ls and I don't most Flyer fans are either. The bigger picture to me is how this season has gone over the course of A10 play.

Back on December 12 I said
http://udpride.com/forums/showpost.p...&postcount=138



Those were my expectations for conference play. Great start to January winning 3 of 4 games against good opponents.

I'll lay out the facts for you since then:

-4-8 with several no show performances and halves of basketball. 6 of those defeats are by double digits. 4 of them by over 15 points
-a defense that hasn't statistically improved.
-a coach who says one scholarship player showed up the final road game of the season.

I don't think any reasonable person would say this team hasn't regressed early January. It's how they lost those games that bothers more than the fact they lost them

As far Rhode Island goes we'll have wait and see next year. I certainly disagree with the assessment of you and Thirt that they're gonna have a season like ours. I realize this is colored by the defend AG at all costs mentality around here. It is possible to survive graduation of contributors and be successful. URI wouldn't be the first school to do it.

I think Dowtin/Russell/Langevine are a good core and Hurley will be active on the grad transfer/juco market to get some instant impact help in
Agree with you on RI having a good nucleus next year who will not struggle like UD but Hurley won't be doing anything for RI next year as he'll be coaching somewhere else...
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
As far Rhode Island goes we'll have wait and see next year. I certainly disagree with the assessment of you and Thirt that they're gonna have a season like ours. I realize this is colored by the defend AG at all costs mentality around here. It is possible to survive graduation of contributors and be successful. URI wouldn't be the first school to do it.

I think Dowtin/Russell/Langevine are a good core and Hurley will be active on the grad transfer/juco market to get some instant impact help in
AGAIN FOR THE THOUSANDTH TIME, what about all of the circumstances surrounding this team. Nobody is saying URI next year is going to have the season that we had this year.

HOWEVER, what if all of those circumstances fell into place? Would you STILL then be saying that URI should be a bubble team? Or would you then lower those expectations upon being presented with new evidence?
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Nobody is saying URI next year is going to have the season that we had this year.
Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post

Best post I have seen on here was a response to you saying that Rhody should still be good next year despite losing a ton of seniors... like we did this year.
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:49 AM
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Its no use arguing with the priders who want to prove they were right all along about AG until proven otherwise. None of the extenuating circumstances faced this year mean anything other than “AG has failed miserably in his first year” and “see, i was right”. And frankly I’m fine with all the negativity because I’m fairly certain that unless AG does something to defame the UofD, he’s going to be coach for at least the next 3 years if not longer- even if next year is bad.

Longterm, I have confidence that AG will be successful here. I believe he goes down as one of the best ever coaches hired.

So with that said, I’ve posted this question before but never seem to get a response from the usual suspects who coninually spout doom - so here’s the question: “If AG turns out to be the worst coach UD has ever employed (even worse than JOB)- I’ll admit i was wrong about him- but will you all admit you’re wrong if he is successful? Or will you just fade away?”
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  #97  
Old 03-02-2018, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
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This is just being obtuse. THirts post was not just about losing seniors. He laid out a very specific scenario where not only did the seniors graduate, Hurley left, someone missed the season for injury, key recruits backed out, one was arrested and kicked off the team, etc. Choosing to ignore the context of his post vs just taking one small piece of it is ridiculous.
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Old 03-02-2018, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFlyerFan View Post
This is just being obtuse. THirts post was not just about losing seniors. He laid out a very specific scenario where not only did the seniors graduate, Hurley left, someone missed the season for injury, key recruits backed out, one was arrested and kicked off the team, etc. Choosing to ignore the context of his post vs just taking one small piece of it is ridiculous.
Thank you. I thought it was obvious, but I just took all the challenges we had this year and replaced names of Dayton players with Rhode Island players in similar roles. Was the Sam Miller reference not clear enough?

Because when you write it all out like that and then still say that team should be a bubble team despite all of it, well... I mean, I thought it looked obvious. But people will see what they want to see.
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  #99  
Old 03-02-2018, 01:01 PM
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Real key this year is recruiting. Record in 2018 less important.

2018 is tough with late start.
2019 is key recruiting year.
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Old 03-02-2018, 01:52 PM
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We $uck right now. Hope you have a plan, and I hope it's a good one AG.
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