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  #1  
Old 02-22-2018, 02:41 PM
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Trouble brewing

As Yahoo! Sports' Pat Forde and Pete Thamel continue to report about ASM Sports and former NBA agent Andy Miller - part of the ongoing federal investigation into college basketball corruption - the latest story mentions that former Xavier stars Edmond Sumner and Semaj Christon are among American-based clients to have left ASM since the scandal broke.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/spo...ion/362856002/
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Old 02-22-2018, 03:09 PM
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I love chaos and look forward to all hell breaking loose...and the sooner, the better.

And after it does, it'll only be a matter of time until the big boys take their ball, go home, and start their own semi-professional Collegiate Athletic Association, as if the current one isn't.
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Old 02-22-2018, 03:30 PM
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Xavier?

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Old 02-22-2018, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I love chaos and look forward to all hell breaking loose...and the sooner, the better.

And after it does, it'll only be a matter of time until the big boys take their ball, go home, and start their own semi-professional Collegiate Athletic Association, as if the current one isn't.
Can't risk that non-profit status
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Old 02-22-2018, 03:49 PM
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Samari Curtis just passed me in a brand new 7 Series . . .
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  #6  
Old 02-22-2018, 03:55 PM
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The canary in the coal mine will be Chris Mack. If he decides that there is a better place to coach next year, could be trouble brewing.
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:25 PM
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I always thought Sumner's disappearance was a bit fishy. I hope the NCAA cracks down in a big way and stops tilting the field in the direction of the cheaters. Kentucky, Louisville, North Carolina and Xavier have gotten away with too many tricks for too many years.
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Old 02-22-2018, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
I always thought Sumner's disappearance was a bit fishy. I hope the NCAA cracks down in a big way and stops tilting the field in the direction of the cheaters. Kentucky, Louisville, North Carolina and Xavier have gotten away with too many tricks for too many years.
For those old-timers out there (and I’m one of them) who remember the early days of UDPride and the old A-10 board in the aftermath of the Brooks Hall recruitment, this almost — a-l-m-o-s-t — makes one consider a No Pants-style retort. Ala, XAVIER CHEATS! ��
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  #9  
Old 02-22-2018, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo538912
I love chaos and look forward to all hell breaking loose...and the sooner, the better.

And after it does, it'll only be a matter of time until the big boys take their ball, go home, and start their own semi-professional Collegiate Athletic Association, as if the current one isn't.

Yup, and when that happens, we will have the most expensive D II arena in the country! I just canít wait for top-notch rivalries like Findlay and Ohio Dominican to develop! *Last two sentences sarcasm* This scandal is bad for those involved, but possibly worse for those not.
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Old 02-22-2018, 05:18 PM
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Considering he took the unconventional path to the NBA, I doubt there is an issue here, but let's not forget that Andy Miller is the agent for Brian Roberts.
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Old 02-22-2018, 05:27 PM
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Speaking of Brian Roberts -- where is he these days?
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Old 02-22-2018, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Sid Louick View Post
Speaking of Brian Roberts -- where is he these days?
Greece
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Old 02-22-2018, 07:04 PM
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If we paid for a 2 star from Toledo, then we are the stupidest people alive.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
If we paid for a 2 star from Toledo, then we are the stupidest people alive.
This part of the investigation is less about colleges paying money for recruits, and it's more about agents giving money to coaches in exchange for signing their players.

But like I said, given his unconventional path to the NBA I doubt there is a problem. Just didn't want us to get too high on that horse about the X guys...
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
If we paid for a 2 star from Toledo, then we are the stupidest people alive.
You could argue that the people who gave Brian Roberts only two stars are far stupider. And what about all the idiots who went to Xavier? Thatís a pretty large contingent of stupid right there.
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  #16  
Old 02-23-2018, 06:37 AM
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The Plot Thickens...

Exclusive: Federal documents detail sweeping potential NCAA violations involving high-profile players, schools

Former Xavier player Edmond Sumner and/or his father, Ernest. Documents show they received at least $7,000 in advances while Edmond was in school.
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by frisco flyer View Post
Exclusive: Federal documents detail sweeping potential NCAA violations involving high-profile players, schools

Former Xavier player Edmond Sumner and/or his father, Ernest. Documents show they received at least $7,000 in advances while Edmond was in school.
Where is that listed? I don't see it anywhere in the link you provided.
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
Where is that listed? I don't see it anywhere in the link you provided.
Look again - itís there!!
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:31 AM
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Heck, if this gets real big and far-reaching we may just get that at-large bid this year.
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:41 AM
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Proving that the coaches knew of these payments won't be easy. From what I've read/heard, most of the money was used to influence these players into signing with an agent, not to attend certain schools.

Regardless, it will be interesting. It'll only take a few schools getting slammed to start the breakup of the fragile NCAA.
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:50 AM
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Agree with Rollo. This is more about a direct payment system from Agent to College Players, does not seem to be a widespread effort with coaches involved. So say a Xavier probably gets minimally penalized if at all for Sumner. The big fish in that article seem to be Michigan State, with Izzo mentioned, Villanova coaches mentioned. That is where the NCAA will be focusing its efforts.

Interested to see if these current players named are immediately suspended by their teams. Could change the outlook for many top teams in the tournament.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by udflyerfan View Post
Look again - itís there!!
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OK I'm blind. Who is listed above and below Sumner? Sorry for being dense.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:12 AM
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Is there anything that can be done about these unscrupulous, rogue agents?

I think they prey upon many of these athletes and their families that come from tough, poor backgrounds.

Have some sort of registration system with the NCAA? Prove that you are a principled, upstanding, non-corrupt, ethical person.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:16 AM
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Schools identified by Yahoo! as having players who possibly violated NCAA rules include Duke, North Carolina, Texas, Kentucky, Michigan State, USC and Kansas. At least 25 players are linked to impermissible benefits, including Michigan State's Miles Bridges, Alabama's Collin Sexton and Duke's Wendell Carter.
...
Other teams with current or former players who allegedly received payments were South Carolina, Louisville, Utah, Xavier, Wichita State, Clemson and Alabama.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...ken-ncaa-rules
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:21 AM
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I see a hotel charge for $254, an advance for $2500 and a hand written note of $300
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I love chaos and look forward to all hell breaking loose...and the sooner, the better.

And after it does, it'll only be a matter of time until the big boys take their ball, go home, and start their own semi-professional Collegiate Athletic Association, as if the current one isn't.
I like the quote "If your school produced a first-round pick in the past three years, be worried.”

In that case there's nothing to be worried about 'round here
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:29 AM
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These are the top schools in college basketball with the top coaches in college basketball. Now they will all claim the Pitino defense - "I did not know what was going on." That is a load of crap. With the power, fame, responsibility and assistants these coaches have, they have a good idea what is going on and just look the other way. Let the assistants take the fall.

The defense is that these agents come onto campus and speak directly to the players and their families without going through the head coaches. You can't tell me that someone does not tell the head coach or his assistant for NCAA violations, that this agent is on campus or has been talking to parents and \ or students.

A lot of the "payments" to students and families are written down by the agent as "loans." Apparently the ASM agency has definite and specific records with amounts, names and the type of transaction - dinners, lunches, plane reservations, cash etc.

I said this the last time. IRS is waiting and watching and when IRS pounces, they are relentless for their tax money.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer68 View Post
These are the top schools in college basketball with the top coaches in college basketball. Now they will all claim the Pitino defense - "I did not know what was going on." That is a load of crap. With the power, fame, responsibility and assistants these coaches have, they have a good idea what is going on and just look the other way. Let the assistants take the fall.

The defense is that these agents come onto campus and speak directly to the players and their families without going through the head coaches. You can't tell me that someone does not tell the head coach or his assistant for NCAA violations, that this agent is on campus or has been talking to parents and \ or students.

A lot of the "payments" to students and families are written down by the agent as "loans." Apparently the ASM agency has definite and specific records with amounts, names and the type of transaction - dinners, lunches, plane reservations, cash etc.

I said this the last time. IRS is waiting and watching and when IRS pounces, they are relentless for their tax money.
While there is no doubt some coaches will be implicated, I think you are missing the issue. Dawkins, who worked for Miller, is from Saginaw, MI. Many of these players implicated are also from Michigan. Dawkins did not need to step foot on a college campus, he went to the players homes and parents. That is nearly impossible for any coach to keep tabs on.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:38 AM
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Violation

Originally Posted by Flyer68 View Post
These are the top schools in college basketball with the top coaches in college basketball. Now they will all claim the Pitino defense - "I did not know what was going on."
The Pitino defense sounds a lot like lack of institutional control.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer68 View Post
I said this the last time. IRS is waiting and watching and when IRS pounces, they are relentless for their tax money.
You are 100% correct. The IRS is ALWAYS the FBI's ace in the hole. If you do not cooperate with the FBI they will threaten to bring the IRS into the equation. And with the IRS you are guilty from the start and only can hope to reach a settlement.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:40 AM
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This is a different type of scandal, so far, from U of L. This is an agency, paying players and their families directly. At U of L, they took the payment from Adidas and were the middle man, to paying Bowen.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyer68 View Post
The defense is that these agents come onto campus and speak directly to the players and their families without going through the head coaches.
I doubt any of this happens on campus. 'Runners' don't want to be seen, especially if they're handing out cash.

As I posted a few months ago, a local AAU coach was filling me in about how a certain HOF coach from a Big12 school came to town to recruit a City League player...coach told the AAU coach to tell the player to go out to the parking lot and there would be an envelop in a large SUV for him. No promises...just an envelop. the Coaches come to town to watch the kids play then leave without so much as a handshake with them. That's how this sh*t goes down. The less witnesses, the better. And head coaches don't do the dirty work, they just want to be seen by the player. Nor do most agents, which is why they have runners. Separation is a good thing. Putting the agent and the kid together will be easier than putting the agent, kid and head coach together.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:42 AM
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Head coach doesn't even have to know. The player took money he is ineligible.

All the players in Andy Millers book are ineligible.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
OK I'm blind. Who is listed above and below Sumner? Sorry for being dense.
Former South Carolina player P.J. Dozier received at least $6,115 while in school, according to the documents.
Former Xavier player Edmond Sumner and/or his father, Ernest. Documents show they received at least $7,000 in advances while Edmond was in school.
Former Wichita State player Fred VanVleet. Documents show he received at least $1,000.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:00 AM
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Michigan State seems to be in the web of this mess. Combining this with their sexual harassment case, it seem inevitable they will succumb to some type of major penalty for their programs.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:06 AM
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This will mushroom out to many more players, many more schools. The information Yahoo got seems to revolve around Dawkins. He was the main Michigan guy for Miller. I am sure it will come out there were other "Dawkins" around the country working for Miller doing the same thing with the top players from their region of the country. Then other agencies will be implicated and the truth will be revealed that any player in college basketball with a future in the NBA or Europe, was at least offered benefits from sports agencies.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:06 AM
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Burn it down.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
Michigan State seems to be in the web of this mess. Combining this with their sexual harassment case, it seem inevitable they will succumb to some type of major penalty for their programs.
I can't wait to see Izzo cry at his denial press conference.

What will also be interesting is to hear whether or not the FBI is/was conducting similar investigations with respect to Football. Seems to me that both would be occurring concurrently.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyGola View Post
Michigan State seems to be in the web of this mess. Combining this with their sexual harassment case, it seem inevitable they will succumb to some type of major penalty for their programs.
Maybe there are more MSU alums who are former governors or congressmen out there to come in and straighten out their mess!
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:27 AM
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DDN take on UK...

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sport...MdSY1Qs1jKseL/
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyerferd View Post
Yup, and when that happens, we will have the most expensive D II arena in the country! I just canít wait for top-notch rivalries like Findlay and Ohio Dominican to develop! *Last two sentences sarcasm* This scandal is bad for those involved, but possibly worse for those not.
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This seems dramatic and highly unlikely. Even if they did break off, they would have to bring some non-football conferences along with to maintain the quality and appeal of the product. People do not tune in to the NCAA tournament to watch some crappy 8/9 matchup between overseeded middling P5 teams. They come for upsets, cinderella stories, David v. Goliath. You can't sell that without David.
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
I can't wait to see Izzo cry at his denial press conference.

What will also be interesting is to hear whether or not the FBI is/was conducting similar investigations with respect to Football. Seems to me that both would be occurring concurrently.
Izzo will question whether they got the right guy.
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:50 PM
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This is supposedly just one agency. More out there
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:57 PM
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tip of the iceberg. However, maybe the Feds don't have anymore.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:11 PM
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Mack is quoted down at the bottom of this article:

https://sports.yahoo.com/exclusive-f...103338484.html
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:31 PM
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Tom Izzo will retire at the end of this season to "spend more time with his family." (as he prepares to go to prison)
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by N2663R View Post
Tom Izzo will retire at the end of this season to "spend more time with his family." (as he prepares to go to prison)
Nah...they will all end up sheltered from it while some dude that owns a local car dealership will fall on the grenade.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Nah...they will all end up sheltered from it while some dude that owns a local car dealership will fall on the grenade.
More penalties for Cleveland State.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
More penalties for Cleveland State.
This is gonna be a rough couple of years for the Vikings
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Old 02-23-2018, 02:06 PM
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Echoing the Fly above, lets not cast stones as Dayton lives in a glass house. 15-20 years ago ...

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200...s_3_years.html

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Old 02-23-2018, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Echoing the Fly able, lets not cast stones as Dayton lives in a glass house. 15-20 years ago ...

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200...s_3_years.html
throwing stones at Xavier is fun though
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Old 02-23-2018, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
This is gonna be a rough couple of years for the Vikings
Off topic, but whatever - CSU built the Wolstein Center on the heels of Kevin Mackie's success in 1991. It seats 13,600 and loses in excess of $1 million per year and is rumored to be torn down soon. This year CSU has drawn 18900 home fans - TOTAL. That's an average of 1350 per game. By comparison, the UD women have drawn 33,800 total for an average of 2,600. So, yes it has been and will continue to be rough for the Vikings.
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Old 02-23-2018, 02:37 PM
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[OTE=hawkoooo;539092]This seems dramatic and highly unlikely. Even if they did break off, they would have to bring some non-football conferences along with to maintain the quality and appeal of the product. People do not tune in to the NCAA tournament to watch some crappy 8/9 matchup between overseeded middling P5 teams. They come for upsets, cinderella stories, David v. Goliath. You can't sell that without David.[/QUOTE]


Highly unlikely? I disagree. Consider these converging factors. Remember the NCAA, while it likes to claim control, has absolutely no control over college footballís playoff system. Thatís where the money is made. With the exception of Duke, Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, And possibly a couple others, basketball does not make near the amount of money football does. I see a scenario where the power five maybe inviting a few schools from the American, breaks off for football purposes, and basketball/The tournament, is simply a casualty. To me, this scandal speeds up that process. The Goliaths will be hard to beat, when they are not associated with the NCAA, and therefore canít play in their tournament. Whoís left? Additionally, as Colin Cowherd pointed out this morning, Adam silver is waking up with mentions of NBA players and NBA teams as a part of this scandal. Silver hates college basketball as it is. Watch the G league. Itís going to turn into more than a developmental league for post college players. Top talent will go there instead of college completely skipping that process.
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Old 02-23-2018, 02:44 PM
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It won't be long until kids can go straight from HS to the NBA...no more 1-and-dones.
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Old 02-23-2018, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rollo View Post
It won't be long until kids can go straight from HS to the NBA...no more 1-and-dones.
It's the best option IMO. Not Bilas' suggestion that these players get (more) of a cut of the $$ pie.

I've said it elsewhere: college isn't for everyone. If you're a genius and want to be a brain surgeon, go to school and get your degrees. If you can shoot like Steph, have a 42" vertical, but can't spell vertical...go directly to the show...do not pass go...do not collect $20,000.
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Old 02-23-2018, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post

Have some sort of registration system with the NCAA? Prove that you are a principled, upstanding, non-corrupt, ethical person.
Crazy talk! There wouldn't be any!
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Old 02-23-2018, 03:10 PM
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And Chris Mack had this to say:

"I have no relationship with Andy Miller or any of his associates. He plays no role in the recruitment of potential student athletes on Xavier’s behalf. Beyond that, our staff has never created a path for him to foster a relationship with any of our student-athletes while enrolled at Xavier. Any suggestion that I or anyone on my staff utilized Andy Miller to provide even the slightest of financial benefits to a Xavier student-athlete is grossly misinformed. We are prepared to cooperate with any and all investigations at any level.”
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Old 02-23-2018, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
DDN take on UK...

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sport...MdSY1Qs1jKseL/
I don't know nothin'!

How was I to know that the Cadillac Escalade my player drove wasn't paid for by him?
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  #59  
Old 02-23-2018, 03:17 PM
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Just remember this!


ďLiars do not fear the truth if there are enough liarsĒ

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Old 02-23-2018, 03:20 PM
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Highly unlikely? I disagree. Consider these converging factors. Remember the NCAA, while it likes to claim control, has absolutely no control over college football’s playoff system. That’s where the money is made. With the exception of Duke, Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, And possibly a couple others, basketball does not make near the amount of money football does. I see a scenario where the power five maybe inviting a few schools from the American, breaks off for football purposes, and basketball/The tournament, is simply a casualty. To me, this scandal speeds up that process. The Goliaths will be hard to beat, when they are not associated with the NCAA, and therefore can’t play in their tournament. Who’s left? Additionally, as Colin Cowherd pointed out this morning, Adam silver is waking up with mentions of NBA players and NBA teams as a part of this scandal. Silver hates college basketball as it is. Watch the G league. It’s going to turn into more than a developmental league for post college players. Top talent will go there instead of college completely skipping that process.
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This is highly unlikely. There are only 26 G league teams. Even if it expanded a bit, probably not more than 32. Each team has around 11 players. Each year, there probably wouldn't be more than a small handful of openings on a team, as guys may take anywhere from 1-3 years to develop to be good enough and earn a spot in the NBA. So kids coming out of high school, there may be from zero to maybe 100 openings in the G league each year. Oh, and they are also competing against people around the world for those spots. So let's say maybe between anyone going directly to NBA or to NBA-G, 75 kids. That just means Duke only gets 4 McDonald's AA's instead of 5. IMO, it would only have a trickle effect on the talent across the NCAA. And frankly, probably opens a few spots for kids who went under the radar but will get a chance where they previously might not have had one.
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Old 02-23-2018, 03:25 PM
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Don't forget about LaVar Ball's Baller League for 18-21 year old players.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...hool-graduates



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Old 02-23-2018, 03:28 PM
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As if this is the first example of the fact that the NCAA can't (or worse) won't really perform the duties they established as the basis of the organization.

Billions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to make and hardly enough time to spend it all. The majority of the front office assignments (to the selection committee be it the BB or FB playoff for instance) is weighted toward the P5 schools.

Look at the NC academic sports scandal .... since those classes were available to any student it was determined it was no violation .... but anyone with half a brain could see what the intent was ..... I guess it was a pretty smart ploy on the part of NC to develop that curriculum ..

The big powerful schools spend money on getting those loopholes open.



Discussed on Fox Sports this afternoon, if you think college BB is an issue .... just think what college FB is all about .....
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:01 PM
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Whether teams knew about thus stuff or not, the players were still ineligible.

How the current players on the list aren't already suspended is ridiculous.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:09 PM
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Just like his mentor, Uncle Cal. LOL

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...-investigation
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:13 PM
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Iím just gonna drop this right here. Not looking good for Archieís brother http://es.pn/2ChetU0
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:14 PM
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Whoops. Mobile delay. Crazy though
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
Just like his mentor, Uncle Cal. LOL

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...-investigation
Someone's in deep crap! I'm sure this stuff didn't start until he got to Arizona
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  #68  
Old 02-23-2018, 10:28 PM
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Sean's having an "oh sh_t" moment right about now. The whole world is going to see him crash and burn if this account is anywhere near true. .

I hear X is also named but don't know the details. Their coach gave a pretty bold statement about his innocence. Maybe proclaiming his innocence too much?
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerBob View Post
Sean's having an "oh sh_t" moment right about now. The whole world is going to see him crash and burn if this account is anywhere near true. .
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerBob View Post
Sean's having an "oh sh_t" moment right about now. The whole world is going to see him crash and burn if this account is anywhere near true. .

I hear X is also named but don't know the details. Their coach gave a pretty bold statement about his innocence. Maybe proclaiming his innocence too much?
hard to believe Sean just started this at Arizona
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:52 PM
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FBI wiretaps show Sean Miller discussed $100K payment to lock recruit...Arizona self bands from 2018 NCAA tournament...NCAA agrees that is harsh enough
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:54 PM
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Which is why we should be glad we have an athletic program that is above board, or hope so.
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
It's the best option IMO. Not Bilas' suggestion that these players get (more) of a cut of the $$ pie.

I've said it elsewhere: college isn't for everyone. If you're a genius and want to be a brain surgeon, go to school and get your degrees. If you can shoot like Steph, have a 42" vertical, but can't spell vertical...go directly to the show...do not pass go...do not collect $20,000.

AGREED!

I view Bilas' viewpoint as self serving, as his income is tied to the popularity of the sport much like a coach. If you want them to get paid, have them go to a pay-for-play league. Otherwise, the promise of free tuition, etc. should be a pretty good tradeoff in my book.
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:20 PM
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Looks like Sean is never getting to that Final Four.

Archie was Sean's top assistant for a couple of years. Hmmm.
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Looks like Sean is never getting to that Final Four.

Archie was Sean's top assistant for a couple of years. Hmmm.
yeah, this has me a little nervous
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
yeah, this has me a little nervous
We may be glad Indiana swooped in. They could be looking at Kelvin Sampson 2.0...
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:39 PM
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As long he doesn't get the Elite Banner 8 taken down
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:43 PM
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Assuming reports are true. All below is pure SPECULATION.

Would be really surprised if Sean Miller just started paying players the last 1-2 years.

If he paid them from 2009 to 2011 while at AZ, do you think Sean and Archie discussed? Brothers usually discuss a lot, but perhaps Sean shielded Archie? If Archie knew, NCAA and IU sanctions coming. Archie probably could not be implicated without Sean or Book (assistant) calling him out. If Sean or Book would do plea deal, likely would have to tell them everything.

If Archie saw this at AZ, are we sure he was clean at Dayton? I know Wabler and Sullivan crystal clear about runnig a clean program, but a tad nervous here. Cannot control bad apples. Again no evidence Archie did anything wrong at AZ or Dayton.

If Sean and Book did this at AZ, did they do it at Xavier? Again, if either does a deal, they will likely recount all issues. Xavier should be even more nervous than Dayton. IF Sean did it at Xavier and if Sumner took $, they are in trouble. I think AD and President of Xavier (like Dayton) want to run a clean program.

This is only 1 agency and 1 shoe company so far ...

All points above are pure SPECULATION.

Again, don’t think we should be throwing rocks.
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ruechalgrin View Post
Assuming reports are true. All below is pure SPECULATION.

Would be really surprised if Sean Miller just started paying players the last 1-2 years.

If he paid them from 2009 to 2011 while at AZ, do you think Sean and Archie discussed? Brothers usually discuss a lot, but perhaps Sean shielded Archie? If Archie knew, NCAA and IU sanctions coming. Archie probably could not be implicated without Sean or Book (assistant) calling him out. If Sean or Book would do plea deal, likely would have to tell them everything.

If Archie saw this at AZ, are we sure he was clean at Dayton? I know Wabler and Sullivan crystal clear about runnig a clean program, but a tad nervous here. Cannot control bad apples. Again no evidence Archie did anything wrong at AZ or Dayton.

If Sean and Book did this at AZ, did they do it at Xavier? Again, if either does a deal, they will likely recount all issues. Xavier should be even more nervous than Dayton. IF Sean did it at Xavier and if Sumner took $, they are in trouble. I think AD and President of Xavier (like Dayton) want to run a clean program.

This is only 1 agency and 1 shoe company so far ...

All points above are pure SPECULATION.

Again, donít think we should be throwing rocks.
No way this just started at Arizona

This is so agent/shoe company dominated that I don't see any of those guys wanting anyone at Dayton
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:52 PM
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Archie was not a good recruiter

I doubt he is part of this lol
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by lhsgolf19 View Post
Archie was not a good recruiter

I doubt he is part of this lol
outta here with that
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Old 02-24-2018, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
outta here with that
haha you know what I mean
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:06 AM
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A good source previously told me that FBI raided Sean Miller’s house on the same day as ASM Sports & took his computers. Not sure whether anything has been found.
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  #84  
Old 02-24-2018, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
Just didn't want us to get too high on that horse about the X guys...
Ride that horse baby! Ride high!


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  #85  
Old 02-24-2018, 08:02 AM
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The resolution about paying players would not necessarily cause the issue to go away ...

here's why:

Say besides the free tuition, room board, etc each player gets OH say $10,000 a year ....

shoe or clothing company/ sports agents are just going to up their offer to ADD to the $10k. SO you still have the issue going on. Besides NOT all players are getting these sweet deals now only those with some potential NBA or NFL skills.

Another aspect of this is these kids were given money/perks before college. Tell me the agents will stop that since the player will get a small stipend IN school. How about the family? They benefited too. Nobody is going to want to give all that up.

No I think paying players IN school will not be the solution. Would it benefit the player who does not get the agents attention ... absolutely. Will the best players (and their families) still get some pre school cashola ... absolutely!!!

Anyways what better time for some of these details to come out as we face the closure of a frustrating, disappointing, sad BB season .....

Something interesting to keep our collective mind off of the reality of it all.
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Old 02-24-2018, 08:11 AM
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This is only tip of the iceberg .... any top 50 recruit could be involved and any consistently top performing program should be looked at also

Count Georgetown and UD out (I hope).

Any fast riser (X and Gonzaga) IN.

Football should also be considered having these same issue. ANY agent. ANY apparel and shoe company representative too!.

This most likely is systemic throughout college sports and the NCAA is a very ... NO extremely poor organization to be the watch dog over such matters ...

the rich get richer mentally has got to stop ......
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Old 02-24-2018, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerGuyer View Post
Just like his mentor, Uncle Cal. LOL

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...-investigation
Originally Posted by Kevinob15 View Post
Iím just gonna drop this right here. Not looking good for Archieís brother http://es.pn/2ChetU0
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Key point in the article that is everything wrong with NCAA sports...

The fact that if a coach is fired with just cause, he gets nearly 85% of this future salary. And you wonder why this stiff goes one...no one is in the poor house when they get caught.
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Old 02-24-2018, 08:16 AM
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Connections do make anyone with ties to these programs nervous....

With that said, UD would have been pretty bad cheaters if a lucky E8 run was the end result of not playing by the rules...
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Old 02-24-2018, 08:25 AM
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https://sports.yahoo.com/report-wire...033139552.html

This makes me sick on so many levels. The coaches doing it make me sick because they do it to advance their own self-worth not to help a kid. It makes me sick if Archie was part of it. But mostly it makes me sick for all the programs and college players that arenít part of it. Those that put in all the work to play D1 ball for a chance to catch magic and make a run because they deserved a level playing field to play out their dreams and it wasnít even close to a level playing field. Itís hard enough to compete against the big schools with big budgets. Playing against pro (paid) players and their slimy coaches makes me sick.

Let the chips fall where they are going to fall. There will be some high schools that will hire the fallen coaches after they do their prison time.
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Old 02-24-2018, 08:25 AM
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Sean must really be sweating through his clothes now.
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Old 02-24-2018, 08:39 AM
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IU fans have to be nervous too. X is clearly nervous and in denial stage.

The money thing has gone on for a long time. I remember someone relaying a comment about a fifth year senior transferring to a big school. His comment was the money was better there.
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Old 02-24-2018, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-wire...033139552.html

This makes me sick on so many levels. The coaches doing it make me sick because they do it to advance their own self-worth not to help a kid. It makes me sick if Archie was part of it. But mostly it makes me sick for all the programs and college players that aren’t part of it. Those that put in all the work to play D1 ball for a chance to catch magic and make a run because they deserved a level playing field to play out their dreams and it wasn’t even close to a level playing field. It’s hard enough to compete against the big schools with big budgets. Playing against pro (paid) players and their slimy coaches makes me sick.

Let the chips fall where they are going to fall. There will be some high schools that will hire the fallen coaches after they do their prison time.
This is precisely why this must be nipped in the bud for both football and basketball. Others got it precisely correct; if they want a "pre-pro" pay-to-play, then do what the NBA development league or baseball does. But keep the college game a college game. Frankly, you might not have the very best players out on the court, but that is fine with me and should be fine with other true college fans. My concern is the NCAA is going to gloss over this and quietly let it go on, as they now are the pre-pro program and there are lots of dollars there! Weed them out!!!
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Old 02-24-2018, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Key point in the article that is everything wrong with NCAA sports...

The fact that if a coach is fired with just cause, he gets nearly 85% of this future salary. And you wonder why this stiff goes one...no one is in the poor house when they get caught.
I think the solution will be clauses inserted in their contracts nullifying all guarantees in the event of recruiting violations etc. Mike Greenberg used to talk about this subject on mike and mike regarding the student athletes and I loved his opinion. He said put a stipulation in the scholarship contracts that if they are found to have taken any money or other illegal benefits as stated by the NCAA, that they will then be responsible for paying back tuition fees in full. This was in reference to the Reggie bush situation at USC where he gets away with no consequences and leaves the school taking the fall. This system would atleast hit the parties responsible and not the current students who had nothing to do with it. Itís completely unrealistic and never going to happen but I always liked his take on it.
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:00 AM
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There is and will be lots of speculation and rumors, but in the end minimal proof leading to prosecution and penalty by the NCAA. Just too tough, expensive and time consuming to prove. Anyway, as was said in the case of UNC, the deep pockets of these schools allow them to lawyer up to the hilt.
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:15 AM
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Book Richardson and Xavier. Curious who he recruited while at Xavier. Mark Lyons was one guy he recruited , 4 star top 100 recruit. Who else did he recruit while at Xavier?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/zonazea...o-arizona/amp/

https://247sports.com/Player/Mark-Ly.../college-32906

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/co...ticle-1.285184

http://goxavier.com/coaches.aspx?rc=115
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:22 AM
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Players who started while Book/Miller were both at Xavier. Again not accusing them of anything, but if Xavier investigates itself or NCAA investigates then, this is where they will start.

Players include:

Mark Lyons
Tru Holloway
Jordan Crawford
Kenny Frease
Brad Redford
Dante Jackson
Jamal McLean
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jack72 View Post
There is and will be lots of speculation and rumors, but in the end minimal proof leading to prosecution and penalty by the NCAA. Just too tough, expensive and time consuming to prove. Anyway, as was said in the case of UNC, the deep pockets of these schools allow them to lawyer up to the hilt.
Not when you have it on tape. Weíll see what the feds have.
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by SeasonTicketFan View Post
IU fans have to be nervous too. X is clearly nervous and in denial stage.
Not sure why IU fans should be nervous. If Archie is involved WE are the ones that need to be nervous. Look at Calipari - He has gotten into trouble twice. In both cases he left those problems behind him. UMass and Memphis suffered the consequences while he moved on.

If Archie is involved - it will be on us, not IU.
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Old 02-24-2018, 12:00 PM
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I would love to read Sean’s contract. The 85% clause seems unreal to me when the norm is you get zero. But assuming it’s correct, I still feel AZ can counter sue him for issues dealing with representing the university and I believe all athletic employees have to sign a NCAA compliance form. A lot we don’t know from a paperwork prospective. All that said, I’m guessing AZ has enough to force Miller to accept way less or nothing on his way out the door. Ricky down at Louisville was threatening a lawsuit, but I haven’t seen anything. Maybe I’ve missed it? I think Sean is toast if the news reports are true. He’ll need big bucks to pay for a criminal defense. His lawyer will try to squeeze AZ for cash, but I don’t see that being too successful. You misrepresent yourself during a contract negotiation that negatively impacts the other party, you have problems. In this case, as recently as after Richardson was arrested, Sean made a public statement he was responsible for the compliance of his program. Maybe that was suppose to be his self-report?

Last edited by BeckysTXA; 02-24-2018 at 12:04 PM..
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Old 02-24-2018, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
Not sure why IU fans should be nervous. If Archie is involved WE are the ones that need to be nervous. Look at Calipari - He has gotten into trouble twice. In both cases he left those problems behind him. UMass and Memphis suffered the consequences while he moved on.

If Archie is involved - it will be on us, not IU.
NCAA investigation, yes. But not if itís the FBI calling.
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