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  #1  
Old 04-17-2017, 11:46 AM
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First Four Announcement--UD Arena to host thru 2022

NCAA will announce tomorrow who gets the First Four in 2019 - 2022.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sport...gwtcXG75bEuJN/

My prediction - they will move it to Detroit for a few years to see if a larger arena = more people. They will be disappointed when 7,000 show up and move it back to UD in 2023.
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:11 PM
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it's not broken
no fix needed
it stays in Dayton
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Piqua Flyer '66 View Post
it's not broken
no fix needed
it stays in Dayton
That is a logical point of view. Unfortunately we are dealing with the NCAA...no logic needed to make their decisions...
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:33 PM
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Detroit has hosted NCAA games before so I'm wondering why the reporter didn't do their homework and report the attendance numbers. A good reporter....oh wait...it's the DDN. Never mind.
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:04 PM
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I can see Detroit really pushing to get the games at the Palace. With the Pistons moving back downtown, they will need to try and do whatever possible to keep events at the Palace.
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BeckysTXA View Post
Detroit has hosted NCAA games before so I'm wondering why the reporter didn't do their homework and report the attendance numbers. A good reporter....oh wait...it's the DDN. Never mind.
Averaged over 20k per session in 2013. Not sure that is even relevant in the discussion about potential first four attendance.
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:12 PM
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My guess is that wherever it goes that the first couple of years will be well attended but that they would never sustain it over a long period like Dayton has. So maybe the NCAA wants to move it around to capitalize on the excitement of it the first couple of years at each place and then move on to a new locale. I hope they keep it at UD because there is no better place for it and it is a nice way to get additional press for the school and the basketball team.
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:40 PM
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If Dayton would lose the First 4, I could see the NCAA giving Dayton 1st and 2nd round games a couple of years. I know they typically like using larger arenas now, but UD technically still meets that capacity requirements to host the first and second round. That could be the consolation prize for losing the first 4.
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:25 PM
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wonder how much the business community & others would step up to buy tickets in some of these place
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Old 04-17-2017, 05:04 PM
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I don't like it but it appears to me to be taking from a stadium associated with a college and a small city to a big event type stadium owned by a municipality or public entity. Unfortunately, facts, numbers and attendance notwithstanding, I don't think that once transferred that the first four will never return to UD. They will just keeping moving it around to different big city locations. I would not be surprised to see the NCAA scheduling first four teams located within travelling distance of new locations. It's all about the money and appearances.
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:00 PM
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I don't think anyone would do a better job with it than what Dayton has done. Having said that, I do think it'd be better if they just played it at whatever site the game is playing into. Even if they had to play on back to back nights, I think most teams would rather play two games in two days at one place than play two games in three days at two places. Plus, as far as the fans of the teams go, it'd be better for them to not have to travel to two different cities.

I don't think they're going to move it out of Dayton, though. If they're gonna do it this way, then Dayton is probably the best place to have it.
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Old 04-17-2017, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
I don't think anyone would do a better job with it than what Dayton has done. Having said that, I do think it'd be better if they just played it at whatever site the game is playing into. Even if they had to play on back to back nights, I think most teams would rather play two games in two days at one place than play two games in three days at two places. Plus, as far as the fans of the teams go, it'd be better for them to not have to travel to two different cities.

I don't think they're going to move it out of Dayton, though. If they're gonna do it this way, then Dayton is probably the best place to have it.
I don't see your suggestion as viable from a ticket sales standpoint. Teams and sites announced on Sunday night gives no time for ticket sales. UD works year round to fill the Arena for those games. It would be embarrassing for the NCAA and teams to play in front of a couple thousand fans at most. To make it work, the NCAA would have to put some of their cards on the table like letting certain sites know in advance that they will have a 1 vs 16 seed game or a 5 vs 12 game. I don't see that happening.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jumpin' joe View Post
I don't see your suggestion as viable from a ticket sales standpoint. Teams and sites announced on Sunday night gives no time for ticket sales. UD works year round to fill the Arena for those games. It would be embarrassing for the NCAA and teams to play in front of a couple thousand fans at most. To make it work, the NCAA would have to put some of their cards on the table like letting certain sites know in advance that they will have a 1 vs 16 seed game or a 5 vs 12 game. I don't see that happening.
The schools would sell more tickets, but you're right about the rest of the crowd. The overall attendance would go down big time.

The problem is this. The schools essentially learn that they're in on Sunday night, and then they get their ticket allotment, and if they're playing on Tuesday they basically have about four hours to sell them before they have to return them, which is very hard to do on one day's notice. I think that the participating schools would have better luck selling tickets if they were all in the same location, because from what I understand most fans who plan on traveling wait until after the First Four game.

To your point, if they did it at the sites for the Round of 64/32 games, they would almost have to do something similar to what baseball does and basically have a 'ticket if necessary' for those that buy the full package, but even then it would probably be a sparse crowd for the two 16 v 16 games.
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:25 PM
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The first 4 teams never play 2 days in a row. The teams that play on Tuesday would be seeded for Thursday games and so on.
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Old 04-18-2017, 07:35 AM
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Attendance numbers won't amount to anything based on the teams playing...UD puts butts in the seats with season ticket holders. There are usually enough interest in at least one of the teams each night to pull in fans. I sold tickets to a KState fan this year. When the teams are coming from far away, you better have a local fan base that can fill the seats. USC fans aren't chomping at the bit to take tickets off your hands. You have to find a local fan that has some interest.

Now...you pull a team or two within a 4-8 hour drive of the venue...you are talking demand for tickets.
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Old 04-18-2017, 11:26 AM
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Does anyone know what time the announcement is to be made?
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Old 04-18-2017, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by swish61 View Post
Does anyone know what time the announcement is to be made?
1pm or 1300 hrs. since I need at least 5 characters to post.
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:03 PM
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David Jablonski‏Verified account @DavidPJablonski ∑ 1m1 minute ago

BREAKING: @univofdayton keeping First Four through 2022
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:07 PM
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Per NCAA
ē Dayton will continue to host the NCAA First Four through at least 2022, as it has served as the site for the start of the Division I menís basketball tournament since 2001. University of Dayton Arena has hosted 117 menís basketball tournament games, the most of any facility.
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:13 PM
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In other NCAA news of local/regional interest:

March 22 & 24, 2019 DI M Basketball First/Second Ohio State Columbus OH Nationwide Arena

March 18 & 20, 2022 DI M Basketball First/Second Duquesne Pittsburgh PA PPG Paints Arena

March 17 & 19, 2022 DI M Basketball First/Second Cincinnati Cincinnati OH U.S. Bank Arena

March 26 & 28, 2021 DI M Basketball Regional Atlantic 10 Brooklyn NY Barclays Center
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Old 04-18-2017, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
NCAA will announce tomorrow who gets the First Four in 2019 - 2022.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sport...gwtcXG75bEuJN/

My prediction - they will move it to Detroit for a few years to see if a larger arena = more people. They will be disappointed when 7,000 show up and move it back to UD in 2023.
How's that working for you
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Old 04-18-2017, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by UD62 View Post
How's that working for you
I'm very happy to be wrong!
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MNFats View Post
I'm very happy to be wrong!
Said King Rollo never....
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Old 04-18-2017, 02:23 PM
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How did US Bank Arena get first round games
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Old 04-18-2017, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
How did US Bank Arena get first round games
Good question. That is what I was wondering. Lol.

The paint is peeling off the ceiling above the upper deck, that looks a little tacky IMO.

The place needs some maintenance/renovation IMO. They are not hosting until 2022, so maybe they are planning some maintenance/renovation before then.
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Old 04-18-2017, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Good question. That is what I was wondering. Lol.

The paint is peeling off the ceiling above the upper deck, that looks a little tacky IMO.

The place needs some maintenance/renovation IMO. They are not hosting until 2022, so maybe they are planning some maintenance/renovation before then.
It says it all when UC decides they'd rather play the season 5/3 is renovated in Northern Kentucky's arena than there
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Old 04-18-2017, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
How did US Bank Arena get first round games
I think US Bank Arena hosted regionals for the NCAA hockey tournament the last two years and maybe three out of the last four tournaments. The NCAA must like their hosting ability.
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:29 AM
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Saw that the US Bank Arena needs renovation/up-grades. They have been talking about the renovations the past 2 years (maybe more) to the tune of $200M.

They still do not have a plan on getting funding though and were hoping that the tourney award would make things happen!

Talk about a gamble!
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
Saw that the US Bank Arena needs renovation/up-grades. They have been talking about the renovations the past 2 years (maybe more) to the tune of $200M.

They still do not have a plan on getting funding though and were hoping that the tourney award would make things happen!

Talk about a gamble!
UD Arena is probably the contingency plan.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news...ell/100659616/
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Ready Action View Post
UD Arena is probably the contingency plan.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news...ell/100659616/
Or Rupp or Yum Center if they want to keep it in the same geographic area.

But hoping UD
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
Saw that the US Bank Arena needs renovation/up-grades. They have been talking about the renovations the past 2 years (maybe more) to the tune of $200M.

They still do not have a plan on getting funding though and were hoping that the tourney award would make things happen!

Talk about a gamble!
UD also committed to renovation/upgrades as part of their presentation to NCAA to keep the First Four.
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Old 04-18-2017, 02:38 PM
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UD was hoping to get first round games during that time as well. Looks like we are the permanent home of the First Four.
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:51 AM
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Frankly, the missed the boat when they didn't put a retractable roof on Paul Brown Stadium that would have allowed them to have all kinds of large scale events no matter the weather considerations, while still being able to open up the roof and host football games in good weather, similar to what the Colts, Cardinals and others have done.

I wonder what the deadline for having the improvements in place are? I'd assume UD Arena is a potential contingency plan as well, but if they want to keep it local, I'd think they could also consider Rupp Arena, the Pacer's home court in Indy or Nationwide arena in C'Bus.

Edit: forgot about the YUM center as mentioned above, which would also work as a regional option.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:21 AM
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Not sure I'm happy with keeping the First Four if it means never getting to host 1st/2nd round games again.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Whacker View Post
Not sure I'm happy with keeping the First Four if it means never getting to host 1st/2nd round games again.
On one hand... I'm glad the Dayton region will get the economic boost from having the First Four every year (versus a 1st/2nd round game every 3-4 years or so).

On the other hand... It does suck that I won't ever be able to get the 1st/2nd round game lower arena tickets at face value.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Whacker View Post
Not sure I'm happy with keeping the First Four if it means never getting to host 1st/2nd round games again.
I agree. Did the NCAA or UD or someone say this, or is it just speculation on your part? I think arena seating capacity has more to do with it though, plus the fact Indy, Columbus, and Louisville have all built arenas in the past 10 to 15 years that are well suited to host such events, with at least 6K more seats available.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
I agree. Did the NCAA or UD or someone say this, or is it just speculation on your part? I think arena seating capacity has more to do with it though, plus the fact Indy, Columbus, and Louisville have all built arenas in the past 10 to 15 years that are well suited to host such events, with at least 6K more seats available.
You got it. To me the kicker is that the NCAA may sell more tickets at these other arenas but I bet actual attendance would be better at UD Arena.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
I agree. Did the NCAA or UD or someone say this, or is it just speculation on your part? I think arena seating capacity has more to do with it though, plus the fact Indy, Columbus, and Louisville have all built arenas in the past 10 to 15 years that are well suited to host such events, with at least 6K more seats available.
I think capacity is the biggest issue, but even if UD Arena were the same size all three of those sites are better for hosting tournament games. They are all in downtown areas with hotels, restaurants, and bars in very close proximity. UD Arenas location simply does not have those things. In all 3 places I could park my car for the weekend if I wanted to and walk everywhere I needed to go. For games at UD Arena I would have to drive everywhere because there are only 2 hotels within walking distance and those rooms wouldn't be available to the general public because the NCAA would reserve them for teams, press, etc.
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  #39  
Old 04-20-2017, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
They are all in downtown areas with hotels, restaurants, and bars in very close proximity. .
Bars should not matter, remember the NCAA Nazis won't let UD sell beer during the tournament, so why should they promote drinking before or after games when they can not get their cut of the profits?
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Old 04-20-2017, 12:07 PM
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A few things....

The selection committee, the same committee that selects and seeds the teams, also picks the sites and the hosts. I'm not a big conspiracy theorist when it comes to what teams are selected (that doesn't always mean I agree, but I don't think it's all that political). However, when it comes to this, I kinda am. I noticed that with the exception of South Carolina, Kentucky and NC State, none of the venues are on campus. There are cases such as Louisville, Creighton, Marquette, Georgetown, and a few others who will be hosting on their home floors, but Creighton's AD is now the chairman, Kentucky's AD is on the committee, and there are ACC representatives on the Committee as well. Those are also on par with NBA and NHL arenas. So, while it's not exclusively at NBA and NHL arenas, it's about 90 percent that.

There is no rule that prohibits Dayton from hosting games in the Rounds of 64/32 if they're hosting the First Four. In fact, they've done it before. I believe they've done it more than once. I personally don't think that had anything to do with it.

Last, and certainly not least, hosting sucks. It really does. Your own team can't play there, so there is a good chance that if your school is in the tournament you won't get to go with the team because you'll be stuck at home doing event management. You're basically the NCAA's butlers. And, in return for doing this, you get nothing. I wouldn't want to host. Some schools always bid on it. Others never do, and probably never will. My thinking is in line with the latter category.
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Old 04-20-2017, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Bars should not matter, remember the NCAA Nazis won't let UD sell beer during the tournament, so why should they promote drinking before or after games when they can not get their cut of the profits?
They aren't promoting it, but they are in the entertainment business. They want fans to have a good experience outside of the actual games too, and they know fans like beer. For example my group got to Indy at around noon this year. We checked into our hotel, went to a bar, got lunch and a few drinks, and bought $20 dollar seats for the afternoon session on stubhub. We watched the 2nd half of the first game in the arena and left about midway through the 2nd half of the second game. We walked back to the hotel refreshed ourselves and charged our phones before heading back out. We went to a different bar and had a few more drinks and then stopped at an outdoor lot across the street from the arena and grabbed a last beer before going in for the game. We had a great day excluding the outcome of the game. A similar type of day can't be had at UD Arena.
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ClaytonFlyerFan View Post
Bars should not matter, remember the NCAA Nazis won't let UD sell beer during the tournament, so why should they promote drinking before or after games when they can not get their cut of the profits?
They're not promoting drinking but it's fun to do, tastes really good, goes with great food and restaurants, and even better within walking distance of hotels. They call that entertainment..
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Old 04-20-2017, 08:26 PM
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The link below itemizes NCAA requirements. There may be some who don't see a benefit, as you say, but I'd say the vast majority avoid bidding because they don't have the wherewithal to pull it off.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/f...ecs%202017.pdf
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
The link below itemizes NCAA requirements. There may be some who don't see a benefit, as you say, but I'd say the vast majority avoid bidding because they don't have the wherewithal to pull it off.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/f...ecs%202017.pdf
You mean like not having ice??

That's for the hockey tournament.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
You mean like not having ice??

That's for the hockey tournament.
Wrong link, but the point stands. I have yet to hear you refute the numbers by Forbes and others that the tourney usually generates a good return for the local economy. That's because you can't.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
Wrong link, but the point stands. I have yet to hear you refute the numbers by Forbes and others that the tourney usually generates a good return for the local economy. That's because you can't.
Correct. I did not refute the impact on the local economy. Truth be told I've never really specifically assessed how it impacts the local economy.

I was making three points...

1. It does not generate any significant revenue for the institution or conference, who are actually saddled with doing the work

2. It does not generate any publicity or exposure for the institution or conference. I think Chaminade manages to generate about fifty times the exposure for itself by hosting the Maui than any team or conference generates for itself by hosting the NCAA Tournament.

3. The vast majority of schools would rather not host it. This last point is not a mere supposition on my part.

And hey, if a school wants to host, then good for them! Someone's gotta do it, and it might as well be someone else. They should do what they like for whatever reasons that they like. I'm not saying they're making a mistake. I'm saying that I'd rather not do it, and I am by no means the only person that feels that way. In fact, when I said that hosting sucks, I said it to convey that I don't think there is really anything to feel bad about in regards to not getting any first/second round games.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:36 AM
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maybe xubrew would have more interest in hosting an ncaa game if your arena was named for your school, or if your school was named for the town where it is located. When the public hears University of Dayton arena or game played in Dayton Ohio, only one school comes to mind for the country.
a little different if it was Cintas arena in Cincinnati.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Correct. I did not refute the impact on the local economy. Truth be told I've never really specifically assessed how it impacts the local economy.

I was making three points...

1. It does not generate any significant revenue for the institution or conference, who are actually saddled with doing the work
I do not know about all employees, but when I worked the NCAA tournaments at UD, I had to specifically note on my timecard when I was working for UD and when I was during work for the NCAA Tournament. I was told that the NCAA picks up the tab for workers who are working strictly for the event. This was 7-8 years ago, so things may have changed since then.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Correct. I did not refute the impact on the local economy. Truth be told I've never really specifically assessed how it impacts the local economy.

I was making three points...

1. It does not generate any significant revenue for the institution or conference, who are actually saddled with doing the work

2. It does not generate any publicity or exposure for the institution or conference. I think Chaminade manages to generate about fifty times the exposure for itself by hosting the Maui than any team or conference generates for itself by hosting the NCAA Tournament.

3. The vast majority of schools would rather not host it. This last point is not a mere supposition on my part.

And hey, if a school wants to host, then good for them! Someone's gotta do it, and it might as well be someone else. They should do what they like for whatever reasons that they like. I'm not saying they're making a mistake. I'm saying that I'd rather not do it, and I am by no means the only person that feels that way. In fact, when I said that hosting sucks, I said it to convey that I don't think there is really anything to feel bad about in regards to not getting any first/second round games.
Fair enough. No one argued it was a huge moneymaker for the host universities. As pointed out, it's a much different story for the host cities. You may not have researched the economic impact, but others have and have found it to be a considerable boost. But as to point 2, I think a number of people here have successfully argued that the First Four does have publicity value for the university and Dayton in a way that one-and-done hosting doesn't. Your analogy to Chaminade isn't far off of what First Four advocates might argue. Long-term associations count for something. And I'd only add to your third point that, again, most schools don't bid because they don't have the capability to host. No doubt some don't want to; no doubt some want to and can't.

Last edited by The Fly; 04-21-2017 at 12:02 PM..
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:30 AM
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You cannot compare a school hosting the NCAA Tournament in a random NBA Corporate Sponsor Name arena every few years to Dayton hosting the First Four every single year in the University of Dayton Arena. And the reputation for UD and the City of Dayton as having "basketball crazy" fans is mentioned every year...before, during and after the First Four.
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by shocka43 View Post
Not being a smart ass...but just asking...

What percentage of tournament host sites are actually university venues? Every other NCAA tournament game that I have been to are off site professional facilities. Yes, bigger universities have hosted, but the overwhelming majority of tournament sites aren't even NCAA venues, but pro venues.
Not sure why you think I would take that as you being a smartass.

Virtually none. Dayton, NC State, and I think one other one but I forget which, were the only venues that were actually on a campus. The NCAA seems to like it in NBA/NHL arenas. Other places like Louisville, Kentucky, Marquette, etc that will be hosting in their home arenas, but they also do not play in on campus arenas. If I'm not mistaken Rupp Arena isn't actually on Kentucky's campus either.

I think I said this earlier, but I think that had more to do with why UD didn't get a Round of 64/32 site than the First Four did.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
. If I'm not mistaken Rupp Arena isn't actually on Kentucky's campus either.
.
You are correct, Rupp is technically not on the UK Campus, but from what I recall the walk from campus to Rupp is probably shorter than the walk from the rest of the UD campus to UD Arena.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
Not sure why you think I would take that as you being a smartass.

Virtually none. Dayton, NC State, and I think one other one but I forget which, were the only venues that were actually on a campus. The NCAA seems to like it in NBA/NHL arenas. Other places like Louisville, Kentucky, Marquette, etc that will be hosting in their home arenas, but they also do not play in on campus arenas. If I'm not mistaken Rupp Arena isn't actually on Kentucky's campus either.

I think I said this earlier, but I think that had more to do with why UD didn't get a Round of 64/32 site than the First Four did.
Rupp is off campus in downtown Lexington
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:53 AM
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brew, you are taking some things for granted that can't be quantified.

1. UD fans are not only basketball crazy, they are known for being basketball crazy, and they WANT to be known for being basketball crazy.

2. Whoever hosts the 2nd round of games at Anywhere Corporate Sponsor Arena is an unknown and no one cares. If we hosted the FF once every 10 years it would be a waste of time most likely. But we don't. We are THE SITE for the FF. Every single year when people tune in for the FF they know the game will be at that same arena in Dayton. No one gives a hoot about the host site for the rest of the games because as you say it's forgotten immediately afterward. After 10 years or so, that piece of information does sink in and stay sunken in long after the games are over. So that actually DOES = publicity.

3. Most sites that bid on hosting are doing it once every few years. Staff has to be re-trained, new updates must be made to meet new NCAA codes, etc. Staff complains because "last year I was on the beach at this time." Not Dayton. To us, it's more like the annual family camping trip. Yeah, some parts of it suck (3 days of planning, bugs, mud) but when you do it every year the work actually becomes part of the bonding experience. You wouldn't understand because you're not part of the culture.

4. If you are not good at it your costs will be higher. If you get it down to a science you can make money at it. It's like anything else.

5. UD plays in a smaller conference. It helps to sell recruits to be able to tell them "we put 8,000 people into this arena for 2 teams who mean nothing to us, we didn't just bring you on a recruiting visit for the 1 big game on our schedule." That has value.

6. You can't tell me that the NCAA folks / coaches / selection committee / etc. doesn't have just a slightly higher level of respect for UD when our name is in front of them all year long. I'm not sure how to put a $ figure on that, but business = relationships. And college BB is a business.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:59 AM
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So US Bank Arena may get torn and rebuilt but sounds like they may need taxpayer funding. Wonder if we could get that pod if nothing happens
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by OSU Flyer View Post
So US Bank Arena may get torn and rebuilt but sounds like they may need taxpayer funding. Wonder if we could get that pod if nothing happens
IMO, that could be a tough sell, there is no big-time regular occupant of that building.


And I really do not like the taxpayers being asked to help fund the construction of stadiums for major league sports teams. The owners are all multi-millionaires, and many of the players are multi-millionaires. They should be the ones footing the bill. It all really ticks me off. The money in pro sports is enormous. They can move the teams to some other town for all I care. Enough with pro teams asking the taxpayers for more money.

That is probably why the books for pro sports teams are all non-public. The taxpayers would probably riot.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:25 PM
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Look for UD arena to be awarded the first round games in 2022. It will be taken away from U.S. Bank arena by then.

As a condition on awarding the bid to U.S. Bank arena, the arena is required to make renovations cost up to $200 million. No one expects that to happen. Those running Cincnata bicker over the smallest issues.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bigred View Post
Look for UD arena to be awarded the first round games in 2022. It will be taken away from U.S. Bank arena by then.

As a condition on awarding the bid to U.S. Bank arena, the arena is required to make renovations cost up to $200 million. No one expects that to happen. Those running Cincnata bicker over the smallest issues.
Seriously? $200 million is a small issue?
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
Seriously? $200 million is a small issue?
No, the point is that given the incessant bickering over small issues they can never tackle the big ones.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:48 PM
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It is as much about branding as it is $. UD has turned what was once an albatross (PIG - play-in game) into a meaningful part of the NCAA tournament - First Four. First Four and Dayton have become synonymous. Everyone knows the NCAA tournament starts here. When you are the kick-off to one of the biggest sporting events of the year every year, you accumulate a lot of cred in the sporting world. You can't measure the dollar value to that, but it is real.

In addition, UD will be using this renewal - and the dollars it brings - as part of their promotion for the arena renovations. We fans win as well.
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bigred View Post
Look for UD arena to be awarded the first round games in 2022. It will be taken away from U.S. Bank arena by then.

As a condition on awarding the bid to U.S. Bank arena, the arena is required to make renovations cost up to $200 million. No one expects that to happen. Those running Cincnata bicker over the smallest issues.
There was an article from one of the TV stations down there that said the owner want to demolition it and build a new arena
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:00 PM
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I have not completely followed the US Bank Arena story.

Who will foot the bill if there are $200 million in renovations done? The arena owner or the taxpayers or both?



Not getting the 2016 Republican National Convention might be driving this.




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S....na#Renovations


A $200 million renovation was proposed in 2015 by arena owners Nederlander Entertainment and AEG Facilities. The renovations would include both upgrades to the seating and expansion to increase capacity to 18,500 seats, additional luxury suites and other premium seating, a new exterior facade, new video boards, and a renovation of the exterior concourse.[30] The push for extensive renovations and upgrades came in 2014 after the city ran an unsuccessful bid for the 2016 Republican National Convention and the state of U.S. Bank Arena was cited as the deciding factor in the bid's failure.[31][32]

In 2017, Nederlander Entertainment announced its intention to tear down and replace the arena if a deal could be made with taxpayers, citing inadequate space and dated '70s aesthetics.[33]
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:29 PM
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Nederlander owns the arena but wants the city/county to assist in funding the project. The 200 million number was for a renovation, but Nederlander has said they really want to tear the whole thing down and build a new arena which would be more like 350 million. There is no way a tax to fund the project would pass in my opinion and I'm 99% sure that no renovation or new arena gets done.

My guess is that the NCAA will move the games to Columbus, Louisville, or Indianapolis. I simply think the days of UD arena hosting 1st and 2nd round games are over.
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by C-time View Post
Nederlander owns the arena but wants the city/county to assist in funding the project. The 200 million number was for a renovation, but Nederlander has said they really want to tear the whole thing down and build a new arena which would be more like 350 million. There is no way a tax to fund the project would pass in my opinion and I'm 99% sure that no renovation or new arena gets done.

My guess is that the NCAA will move the games to Columbus, Louisville, or Indianapolis. I simply think the days of UD arena hosting 1st and 2nd round games are over.
The city/county has stated they own enough stadiums (or at least own a share of the $$$ required to support them). Hence they are not too excited about adding another liability to their ledger.

Some of the renovations that were discussed is providing new lux boxes inside, so the poor and middle class can help pick up the tab for the rich to sit in them there boxes ... (yes there is a fee/ticket cost but does it cover the expense to build and maintain ????).
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFlyr71 View Post
The city/county has stated they own enough stadiums (or at least own a share of the $$$ required to support them). Hence they are not too excited about adding another liability to their ledger.

Some of the renovations that were discussed is providing new lux boxes inside, so the poor and middle class can help pick up the tab for the rich to sit in them there boxes ... (yes there is a fee/ticket cost but does it cover the expense to build and maintain ????).
Precisely why Paul Brown has one of the worst game day experiences in all of the NFL. Concrete jungle with some stickers and paint. No character. No nothing. It's a wonder why I sell my entire set of season tickets each year.
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:00 PM
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Some business decisions are done because the payment is in more than just dollars. I make these same choices at times in my own businesses. Value-added movement on the chess board sometimes comes in the form of things like reputation, community and regional leverage, greater access to movers and shakers at other seated tables, better relationships, good will, fan appeal, etc, etc. The list is endless.

Sometimes in business, a loss-leader is really a business cow, perhaps not in cash but in other meaningful ways. I dont think UD makes profits hand over fist from the First Four. But I believe they believe that the effort to host it is something they ultimately find a net gain. For fans, many of those "gains" are behind the scenes in smoke-filled rooms and months after the actual event. But its about building a brand and an identity.

Coca Cola probably loses their shirt on Super Bowl ads. Their sales are probably flat whether they buy a $5M 30-second commercial or not. But the value of the brand and competitive nature of their product niche demands they are always making sure when people think of cola, they think Coke instead of Pepsi. Its the cost of doing business.

Given UDs unique dynamic of infrastructure, facilities, personnel, fan support, community culture, and experts with decades of experience to handle such things as a First Four, my guess is UD believes they are better at this task than just about anyone, and can do it far better and with far fewer people and expense -- than other potential hosts that have never done it before and would make every mistake in the book at least twice. Its just too good of a situation to turn down. You can't buy the exposure and promotion for less -- and when you are an institution like Dayton where access to exposure and national pats-on-the-back don't come easily because of location, conference, and other factors, you have to exploit those golden opportunities whenever you can because those chances are few and far between. At Louisville, they have all the tools to host the First Four too. But it would never add the same value to Louisville as it does UD. The scale and context matter b/c the institutions themselves are anything but equal.
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:29 PM
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U.S. Bank Arena owner proposes $370M redo funded by sales tax


http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news...tax/475341001/
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
U.S. Bank Arena owner proposes $370M redo funded by sales tax


http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news...tax/475341001/
72 million looks pretty good!
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:51 PM
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public funding ... didn't they learn
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Old 07-14-2017, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ud2 View Post
U.S. Bank Arena owner proposes $370M redo funded by sales tax


http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news...tax/475341001/
Originally Posted by UDGutter2 View Post
72 million looks pretty good!
Originally Posted by Sea Bass View Post
public funding ... didn't they learn
Cincinnati would be better served by using public funds to build a stadium for FC Cincinnati if they get in MLS.
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Old 07-15-2017, 09:06 AM
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I'd imagine UD Arena and UCs Fifth Third Arena renos can't help the US Bank project. Both are getting serious work done for under $100 million. I cant see a justification for the $370 million price tag. Maybe it will take off and hover over the river during games.
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:40 AM
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Why the eff would they want to redo US Bank Arena? They aren't getting an NBA or NFL team. That place is superfluous at this point. If you want to redo it, redo it yourself.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Why the eff would they want to redo US Bank Arena? They aren't getting an NBA or NFL team. That place is superfluous at this point. If you want to redo it, redo it yourself.
always better if you can get everyone else to pay for it.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by priceg75 View Post
Why the eff would they want to redo US Bank Arena? They aren't getting an NBA or NFL team. That place is superfluous at this point. If you want to redo it, redo it yourself.
While they are not getting an NBA team, it is the home of the Cyclones. Also, just look at their event schedule. US Bank arena is jammed packed with events year round. They make a good amount of money off of constantly hosting events. Even when the Cyclones are in season, they are hosting events when they are on the road.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
While they are not getting an NBA team, it is the home of the Cyclones. Also, just look at their event schedule. US Bank arena is jammed packed with events year round. They make a good amount of money off of constantly hosting events. Even when the Cyclones are in season, they are hosting events when they are on the road.
I guess that is the point! If "they", whom I assuming is the ownership group for US bank Arena, is making a good amount of money, then let them make the investment for any return.

It just doesn't make sense to have taxpayers foot the bill for an arena that will house a minor league hockey team as it's anchor tenant. Not when the city has two major league teams. It might make sense in a town like Dayton that will never get a major league team and is/was looking to engineer revitalization in a specific area of Downtown.

Way too many wealthy people have their hands out asking for the rest of us to finance their risks--with none of the reward other than wearing a hometown jersey.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by springborofan View Post
Way too many wealthy people have their hands out asking for the rest of us to finance their risks--with none of the reward other than wearing a hometown jersey.
That's how they stay wealthy, they know how to be smart with their money. It's not their fault cities are willing to pay for the majority of these projects. It will stop once there is enough public support against these types of projects.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by m21eagle45 View Post
That's how they stay wealthy, they know how to be smart with their money. It's not their fault cities are willing to pay for the majority of these projects. It will stop once there is enough public support against these types of projects.
It is plausible that all of this public money could dry up at some point. Increased cable cutting could lead to:


http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2017...sports-bubble/:


Once cable sports networks start folding because no one wants to pay their higher rates, the huge dollars they pay for broadcast rights will cease rolling into league pockets. This will cause the leagues to scramble to replace that lost revenue, and it will mean that prices will be raised for tickets that are already out of reach for the average fan. Worse, leagues will also likely begin ramping up their demands that local taxpayers pick up more and more of their expenses.

This will likely cause a downward spiral in professional sports. Eventually, the increasing ticket prices will keep fans at home, and with fewer people attending games local politicians will find it harder to excuse handing tax dollars to billionaire team owners. After all, claims of the so-called benefits of increased visitors to the areas where stadiums sit will become increasingly erroneous when fewer people are seen attending games. So, politicians will have no excuse to so readily hand out tax dollars like they do today.

It is quite possible that in the years to come players will see their multi-million dollar salaries falling, teams will find fewer fans in the stands, cable TV will see fewer sports channels in existence, and the billions of dollars that currently flow throughout professional sports will dwindle. It is quite conceivable that the gravy train is just about ready to come to an end.

Make no mistake, this will also eventually impact college sports, too
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:14 PM
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I think the demographics are more disturbing. Youngsters are tuning sports out. Neither one of my kids watch sports (mid 20s).
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:03 PM
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Food for thought...

https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/o...r-espn-011416/:


Only 6% of Consumers Would Pay $20 a Month For ESPN

85% said they wouldn’t pay it and 9% weren’t sure.

Six percent!

That sounds insanely low, but it squares with the difficulties that over the top sports networks have found selling their product direct to consumers. Diehard sports fans are a substantial minority of the population. Do you know how many households buy NFL Sunday Ticket? Just two million, or ten percent of the twenty million subscribers that DirecTV has. The WWE is wildly popular and its network costs just $9.99 a month. So far the WWE has just 1.2 million current subscribers.

56% of all cable subscribers would remove ESPN rather than pay $8 a month for ESPN channels.
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Old 07-18-2017, 07:22 AM
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Apparently they didn't learn from the Paul Brown Stadium deal...bending taxpayers over to fund a ugly, non-fan friendly, facility that pumps out a mediocre football team.

I get private/public partnerships as there is a time and place for them. Such as a publicly funded facility where the profits are gained by the public entity, but they may contract with a private company to manage the facility...such as your local rec center or entertainment venue. But the people of Hamilton county are stupid for their previous decisions.
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